Mention It All - All This Toxicity Hurts! Ft. Jordana Abraham (RHONJ)

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

Dylan and Jordana return for another week of RHONJ, recapping an episode that apparently got a 2-for-1 therapy Groupon. They break down Teresa’s counseling session, Jenn Fessler’s refreshing friendship to Margaret, and why Frank Sr. needs to grow up. Finally, they dig into Bill and Jennifer’s fascinating couples therapy meeting, and what it reveals about their relationship. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Exclusions apply for licenses, see Home Depot.com slash license numbers. Betches Media presents Ha ha laugh funny Mention It All A Bravo by Betches podcast We don't say that But now we said it With me Dylan Hafer

We're going to check me both Hey everyone Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast I'm Dylan Hafer And I am back with Jordana For another Jersey Wednesday Hey Jordana Hey Jordan

So good to be back Good to have you back This week It's a little more chill We're now Almost like 12 days out from the initial Scandol news, so I feel like there's finally some calmer waters. Yes, 12 days post-scand-wall.

It's been a, I would say, more boring week than last week, given all of that. It is a more boring. It depends how you put it, I guess. Right, like, I am less stressed that there are going to be major pieces of news dropping while I am asleep, which is a little bit nice. But, you know, also, I didn't mind the little engagement boost or, big engagement boost, I should say. Yeah. I definitely need to find some new form of entertainment, but we have other Bravo shows to watch on to. We do. Quick question, though. So they are supposed to be filming the Vanderpump Rules reunion next Thursday, I believe. And now the question in the wake of

Raquel's restraining order filing against Sheena is whether or not both of them will be able to participate in the reunion in some way. Just a gut check from you. If we could only have one, would it be Raquel or Sheena? I guess it would have to be Raquel because she's involved in all of it and the Sheena part is really just like Sheena and Raquel. So I think I'd rather have Raquel there for my own entertainment purposes. I have to agree. It feels so disrespectful to Sheena to choose Raquel. But just when you look at this season as a whole and then everything that's happened in the last couple weeks, it's like you can't not have Raquel to answer for her sins.

I mean, if Raquel's goal was to make herself indispensable to the reunion, then mission accomplished. But I agree with you. I don't prefer Sheena in this scenario, but I do, I prefer hearing what Raquel has to say. Right. It's like mission accomplished in terms of making yourself important to the storyline. In terms of anything else in life, I don't know what the long term strategy is there. But anyway, we will see how that shakes out. But for now, we have an episode of New Jersey.

Jersey to talk about, of course. And I mean, a rare one on Bravo, we get two therapy sessions in this episode. For Jersey, too. I feel like a cast who would probably be traditionally against therapy. I thought this was awesome. I loved it. Yeah, we are, you know, they're really getting the most, hopefully they're all in network. I don't know how that works. Who's paying for the therapy sessions. But we get Bill to a couple's therapy session. Teresa's at her six months. month mark with the therapist. I've also been randomly this week I've also been watching season two of Ted Lasso, which has a very strong therapy storyline. So I really have seen a lot of people talking through their feelings this week. And, you know, maybe maybe it's a good thing.

Therapy is very in right now. I think it's a good, I think it's always a good thing to have, I love therapy in general and just having some place to, you know, really work out your issues, which it seems like, especially the housewives have a lot of. I don't know how I feel. about like the like morality of therapy being televised. But I would watch an entire series that was just Jennifer and Bill's couples therapy sessions because I found that fascinating and I wanted more. I absolutely agree. We will get to that because it kind of ties into what happens earlier in the episode. But we start with Teresa at therapy. And her therapy session is seems a little bit more of just like a cliff notes rundown of what has happened on the seasons so far.

And it's giving a little bit like, I'm telling you what you need to know so that you can tell me what I want to hear. Right. I was, I totally agree with that. It didn't really seem like the therapist was like pushing her in any way or really like helping. And again, this is just one little clip, I'm sure. Maybe they've done other work before that. And that wasn't what Teresa was looking to air. But this therapy session, I agree, just kind of said it.

She could have been talking to Jennifer, like, or Dolores. She could have talking to Dolores in terms of like the feedback or like anything else she was really getting from the therapist. Which is like, what, so boys night went bad. And then Joey, I called Joey. I said, want to make peace. He said, yeah, but then he didn't come to my engagement party. And that was hurtful. And it's like, we just watched that phone call last week.

And it, I mean, that is not a, not an untruthful representation of what happened. But it is very, you know, selective in which parts were highlighting. The phone call did happen. There was, you know, she read off the paper, want to make peace. But she wasn't begging Joe to come to her engagement party. It's a little more complicated than that. But, you know, she has every right to be hurt. And I do think it's interesting to get more context on her dad and her parents, the way that they handled situations.

And the fact that her dad and his brother, I think, didn't talk for six years because of a dispute over $200. I mean, that is the kind of thing that it's like, well, we found the root God. I think we nailed it. Right. I think this family is shown that they are very good at holding grudges and they're very good at holding on to things forever to sort of explain any sort of rifts in the relationship. But I mean, it did seem like I did you. It's interesting.

You do see Teresa obviously does seem more calm than she was. I loved the flashback sequence of her freaking out over the years. And you really like, I really do think before this season or maybe last season, you really never hear Teresa sort of take. accountability or judge her own actions negatively in any way. And you do have some sense of that here. So I thought that I thought it was really interesting, really good growth for her. And I was proud of her in a way. Even though again, I don't think she's like fully there. But I think so much more than we've seen from her. Right. I think it's important. You can kind of see both sides where it's like,

I don't agree with her in every situation. But I do think the way in which she's handling these conflicts is different than what we would have seen, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago. And even last season. Yeah. I mean, like with Margaret. Right. Yeah. Right.

Now she's just like, now she's just giving like a soft warning that you don't want her on your bad side rather than, you know, think of in the driveway a few seasons ago when she's, you know, calling Jackie the C word 17 times in a row. Like we've, we've come a long way. Right. She's not spreading rumors about Jackie's husband's cheating on her. She's not, even again, even she says she's been in therapy six months. I think more than six months ago was when she was like saying all those mean things to Margaret in Nashville where she was like saying Margaret always eats dinner. Like she's not like you haven't really seen any like really nasty below the belt stuff from her yet. Right.

We're letting we're letting Jennifer handle that for now this season calling Margaret and albino widow wig. It's like, oh, God. Jen, please. Oh, wow. Yeah. So good, so good, so good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince, Sam Edelman, Frame and Free People.

Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. We do see another through line that's developing is talking about the dueling Sweet 16s. Last week, Teresa was frustrated that Louis' extended family was not invited to Antonia's Sweet 16.

And this week, she says that she's frustrated that Antonia didn't attend Melania's Sweet 16. Apparently, she had a cheer competition. To me, that sounds like a reason to miss a Sweet 16. I don't, like, I don't know if you're on the cheer competition. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah.

I don't know how serious those things are. or if she could have done or not. Like, I'm not really that familiar with the high school cheer world. Turn out of how dare you. I know. But, yeah, I mean, I think it is sad that they're not like, there's clearly like a weirdness. And they also, I mean, the kids are like, I think there's to an extent they probably are not getting involved in it. But they also are.

I think it's interesting the difference between Antonia and Melania where it's like, Melania and G are very vocal about like not liking their aunt and uncle and having a lot of issues with them. And Antonio, she's not really on camera probably as much, but you don't really see like I can imagine her watching the show and being like, you're talking a lot of shit about my parents. This is like a little uncomfortable for me. Whatever Antonio is saying,

they're not really showing it. And I know that Gia obviously has so many issues with Joe Judice talking about her dad. I can't imagine they would have no effect on Antonia. Yeah, it's, it, it is tough to see the kids kind of feeling awkward about the situation. Because we had the moment with Melissa and the girls at the housewarming party a week or two ago. And then at this episode, when they're at that softball game and Joey, like little Joey kind of walks over to Teresa and the girls. And Teresa's like, oh, did you lighten your hair? He's like, no.

Like, it feels like they, you can feel that they have. haven't had that closeness in a while. And it is unfortunate when you think about the fact that these kids have grown up together and used to be so close. And now it's just kind of like, uh, uh, hey, hey, hey out, Teresa. Like, I don't know what I'm supposed to say around you. Like, this is a little weird. It's interesting. You never really see Teresa's relationship with her nieces and nephews. I think on any season, sometimes you see like Melissa and the Jude ice girls, but you don't really see much interaction between Teresa and Tony or any of the kids on the other things. So it's possible they also have never been, she's never been particularly close to them.

And maybe there was more of a relationship with the Gorga kids because Teresa was away. And they're maybe more involved because of that. So yeah, it's tough on these shows. Always there's that question of what is just not being shown on camera versus what is, not happening at all. So there is, like you said, Melissa and Joe's kids have just been on the show less over the years. So maybe those are things that are happening off camera that just isn't quite the focus. Or, yeah, like maybe that has just never quite been the dynamic between Teresa and the Gorga kids.

And I don't know if we'll ever quite know that, but it does seem at this point obvious that things are just a little awkward. Off. Yeah. And I mean, at this baseball game, though, they did seem to like, I was wondering when I was watching this because you see like a positive interaction between Melissa and Joe and Teresa and Louie and like it's pleasant. They're not like hugging and kissing and being obsessed with each other. But they're having like a nice time. They're laughing together. They're looking at the calendar.

I'm kind of like, why can't they all just accept that like when they see each other, they can have a pleasant time, not try to make the relationship anything that it's not and just take each other for what they are. and like not be antagonistic and just kind of accept the relationship as is because it's not like every time they see each other they want to kill each other like they could have a pleasantest it almost seems like the issue stems with like the perceived the perceived need for extreme closeness or nothing at all yeah i think that was a really nice moment the calendar the sexy calendar brings everyone together. And we had talked recently kind of about what does quote unquote peace look like in this situation because it seems clear that there's never going to be that deep closeness that

maybe they had in the past, maybe they've never quite achieved, but that's not in the cards. This to me is an acceptable version of peace in that dynamic. If you can, you know, be at a picnic and just kind of like eat and drink and have a good time and then go your separate ways, that is, that could be peace in the family. And they say they want to make peace, whatever. It is too bad to know that for whatever reason, we'll watch it unfold more throughout the season. They can't just keep it at that level and let that be the situation. Yeah. I feel like the best thing they both could do would just to be managing their expectations of each other. Like if they don't expect anything,

from each other, they can have a very pleasant relationship. If Teresa isn't expecting her brother to defend her when someone talks shit about her, if Melissa isn't expecting her family to be invited to the wedding, like if no one has any expectations, they could just go along and have a nice time when they see each other. And if they do something, if someone does something that you wouldn't have done yourself or you don't agree with, you could just say, well, that's just who they are and we're not that close. But when I see them, it's fine. Yeah. Sadly, not to be.

it seems. But you know, never say never. So we have this kind of lingering tension from Jen Fessler's brunch last episode. Jen goes to visit Marge after she has wrist surgery. And then other Jen, Jen Aden, is talking to Bill and kind of recapping for him what happened at the brunch. And it is just so funny that after all these years, Jen still thinks that Bill is like a receptive, audience for her to just talk shit to. And she's like, she's like, you know, she's calling me disheveled. I'm not dishevel. This is a shampoo commercial.

She's an albino with a wig. She, you know, her friend, like her ex-best friend, Laura, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, Bill to me has completely glazed over in this conversation. Yeah. Yeah, babe. Okay. I agree. It's kind of almost like showing her lack of like self-awareness.

Like this is not the person to talk to about this. He's not going to give you anything. And I don't think that's like a bad thing. but just like to me this conversation she would have gotten a lot more out of it if she had it with Teresa. I'm surprised she they didn't film that. But you see on the other hand when you see Jen Fessler and Margaret, I actually, I thought it was, I really appreciated Jen Fessler saying like, yeah, that was crazy. And like I don't think that was your best look either. That really seemed like a nice, like almost like a real friend moment where to they're not just going to like buzz her up like unconditionally.

she was like, I thought that behavior was like really bad from you too. Yes. And I think it's telling that Jennifer Aden's concern is more like she wanted more, you know, Jen Fessler to kind of make a bigger scene and get more angry at Margaret in the moment. And because Jen Fessler and Margaret are actually friends, Jen is going to hold her accountable, but in a way that is a little bit more generous. like, you know, thought through that it's like, okay, next time I see you, we're going to have a chat about this.

Whereas, you know, Jen Aiden maybe doesn't have those kind of friendships or, you know, maybe she does with Teresa, but it's a little different. So she's like in the moment expecting people like Dolores and Jen Fessler to kind of shoot Margaret down. And it's like, unfortunately, that's not how that's going to go for you. You don't have that kind of, you know, blind defense structure within this group really. Yeah. And I mean, I think Bill could, Bill could be a Jen Fessler to Jennifer, like, in terms of like, he's kind of trying to do that. I think he's tried in other scenes to maybe help her be a little more self-aware about what she's doing. But their dynamic and their relationship, I think is not. But at this point, one where he feels like she's going to be receptive to that and she's yelled at him for doing that before. Like, she does not want him to play that role for her. Nord, I don't think she really wants anyone to play that role for her calling her out. So I think you see a big difference there.

But I think Bill would be doing a lot of the Jen Fesslery stuff if he thought Jen would be open to not being offended and not making it into a whole thing and not dragging him to another couple's therapy session about it. Right. Like if Bill, if Bill was like, well, did you say anything about her kids? And she's like, well, yeah. But she, like, I think Jen kind of has that tendency to be very, like, well, I, it wasn't my fault. Like, I only said something about her kids because she said something about me and blah, blah, blah, like, it's tough for Jen Aiden to kind of take that step back and be like, you know what, we were both, we were both a little hotheaded there.

Not her strongest suit, perhaps. But, you know, best of luck to her getting Jen Fessler to, you know, best of luck to her getting Jen Fessler to you know, turn on Margaret because it really seems like she's trying to make that happen. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes.

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It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. I like seeing this next scene where Melissa, Rachel, and Frank and John and Joe, it was a weird kind of combination. I was like, wait, where's Dolores? She's not there. But Frank is, okay, I don't know. I don't know who's, like, sending out invites. But this was, it was good to kind of get on the same page about what happened at the birthday party where Jen Aiden.

and Teresa kind of were trying to sink their hooks into Rachel a little bit. Yeah. That was an interesting rundown. You see Melissa kind of like give her true feelings about what she's thinking about. Louis. And I thought she had an interesting point where she was like, you know, he's very calm or whatever. He's very, but he's also like kind of manipulative, which I think is true. I wouldn't say that's untrue.

But I think, I mean, I think he is. Louis is manipulative, but maybe over, I think he's like 80% good with his manipulation of Teresa and maybe like 20% he could use his powers for good. Yeah. I agree that I think Melissa is accurately picking up on the fact that Louis has a lot of influence over Teresa at this point. I mean, Teresa says in this episode that the reason she's going to therapy is because Louis has kind of like, you know, led her to not be so reactive and, you know, whatever, which is a good

thing. We talked about it. But it is, you know, it's a little tricky. And Melissa is saying that Teresa giving this warning about not wanting to have Margaret as an enemy is kind of proof that when Teresa was so excited to make up with Margaret at the beginning of this season, that that was basically bullshit and that it was very calculated that it's like, yeah, I'm going to say whatever I'm going to say to Margaret now so that she will kind of ease up on me and not look for a reason to take me down this season, which, you know, say what you will about Margaret. She's not the, you don't want to have her as an enemy, really. She's shown on this show that if she has information about you and if you are not on good terms, that sometimes those below the belt moments can happen.

So I think Teresa maybe was smart to, you know, work on that relationship at the beginning of the season. But also I don't think it was the most genuine. And we've seen that already play out in a couple of different scenarios. Yeah, but I think it's fine that it wasn't that genuine. I don't think she was pretending they were going to be best friends. I mean, you see these, you saw the same exact thing happen a few seasons ago with Jackie and Teresa where Jackie started off very much on Teresa's bad side. And she had like a thing against her. and then she was like starting rumors that her husband was cheating on her and like trying to

destroy her life. And then eventually Jackie kind of like does try to make peace with her. And I think not because she wants to be her best friend or she thinks that it's a real genuine friendship, but because she's kind of like having you not like me is kind of like destroying my entire life. Let's not have this thing going on. So I think like what Teresa is doing has been done to her. And I don't really see that it's like this huge issue.

Yeah. Is it fake? Yeah. But have people done it to her too? Yeah, also. Right. Like, we would be, it would be easy to criticize her if she wasn't making any effort to reach out to Margaret. Like, those are those are the kind of things where it's a little bit just sort of playing the housewives game. I was going through my, I was going through my camera roll the other day looking for something. And I stumbled across a photo, I think, from last season of Teresa and Jackie playing tennis together. And I'm like, oh, God. What a, when you. start seeing them filming and they're like posting photos together like their besties again it's like

we're doing we're doing the the friendship tour yeah i don't know about that but yeah i mean i think the whole louis question is something that we're going to deal with throughout the season as long as they're together as long as they stay on the show there is going to be kind of that thing in the back of your head of like you know what is his role what is his true intention And like you said, I think for the most part, it seems like he has good intentions in terms of Teresa repairing some of the relationships, not being so hotheaded with things. But then there is that, you know, 20% that it's like, I don't know if I love where this is coming from. Yeah. But I think overall net positive, could she have found someone better?

I don't know. I think that like for the level of like kind of craziness that she has or sort of immaturity as it comes to these things, I think better to be leaning in this direction than towards like I mean you see like Joe Judeyice and Joe Gorgre beat each other up before. I don't see that happening with Louis. So I think this is like more positive than that. Right. Louis's face is going to get very red. A vein or two might pop. But at the end of the day he's going to come back and med. rather than swinging on somebody. Exactly. So I think that's probably net positive. Yeah, I like that. I do think, you know, the question of kind of how the daughters are tied into this and sort of what the, like, narrative is over at the Judeis Ruella's household, that is kind of like a sticking point for me.

Like, I don't love the kind of the seeming like group think. And we see this from Gia in the confessional later at the softball game where she, She's like, I sort of get the feeling that Zia Melissa and Zio Joe are trying to put a wedge in the family. And that feeling does not sit well with me. And I'm like, that to me is a little bit like it feels like there is a, there's a narrative thread that's being disseminated in that household. But it's tough. I mean, it's not like a black and white thing. I agree.

And I think the Jude Ice Girls could ease up a little bit. they come in and they have they're not they don't really seem to be wanting to make it work either they do seem to have this like very deep seated hatred for them and again i think maybe that's like their own thing to work through and i don't know we don't know what happened behind the scenes and how accurate everyone's assessment of like the past situation was but they both seem to have like very intense resentments towards them so i would i feel like they should work on that out instead of just continuously saying the same thing about them. Yeah. And it's, it's a little, I think one thing that also is kind of a little strange to me is this season so far, it feels like sort of the only time we're seeing Teresa's daughters are when this is being discussed. Like it doesn't feel like we're getting a lot of Gia and Gabriella and Milan, whatever content

that's just kind of like ancillary. Like it feels, it feels all very like, you're going to stand. at the party and have this moment where Melissa comes up to you and then you're going to be in the confessional talking about how Melissa hasn't been there for you or you know we're going to be in the living room ostensibly talking about something wedding related and then immediately the conversation's going to pivot to how Joe and Melissa are disgusting. Like I think that to me is making it feel a little bit forced and I don't know if that actually is how it's happening or maybe that's just what's getting pulled out in the edit and kept for the show. Like they might

have filmed a bunch of stuff that we're not seeing. So I don't necessarily think that that's like Gia's fault or that Teresa is forcing them to do that. I can't say. But it does feel watching the show. It's a little bit like, why every time we see Gia do we need a clip of her saying that her uncle is terrible? I agree. I think it's like overkill and it makes them seem less likable because you're not really seeing any other side of them. Right. And I think it's it's important to note just because I know I know people feel

sometimes like we're, you know, unfair or taking one side or another. It's like I don't think that Gia is a problem in that sense. I think it's that watching the show, it feels a little bit, you know, very one note that it's like, I would love to see Gia just like hanging out. Right, hanging out talking about her relationship or talking about like hanging out with her sisters. I agree. I think even like almost in the same way that you see Antonio like having that kind of like fun, funny driver's lesson where she gets out of the car

last episode. And I thought that was like kind of a cute mother daughter moment that had, I mean there were like they had to, they talked a little bit about what's going on with with Teresa. But that was not really like, didn't seem like the one note point of that scene. Yeah. Okay. Pivoting a little bit. We have not study. And play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC.

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Try them all now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine. Copyright 2026, the Coca-Cola Company. Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company. At all this episode so far, which I think is probably the furthest we've, ever gotten into a Jersey episode without talking about Dolores' changing dynamic with Frank. And we're starting to see it turn a little bit because at this softball game, softball, baseball,

I don't know, they're in Coney Island. So Polly is not there because he had surgery. So Frank is there with Dolores. And it's again coming up this idea that things are changing so much and she has this new person in her life and Frank doesn't know blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. and suddenly Frank is crying about the changing nature of his relationship with Dolores. Oh my God. And I honestly really appreciated seeing Dolores start to get actively frustrated with how Frank is handling this.

And the fact that he seems just unable to deal with the fact that she has a real positive, meaningful relationship happening in her life. Because it's a lot to watch. It's like, Frank, please, you have a girlfriend. Get over it. I agree. I am very tired of seeing Frigg play the victim in this entire thing when he could have been married to Dolores if he hadn't cheated on her while she was pregnant with their second child.

And Dolores never really expresses any anger or resentment or whatever towards him. She's allowed him to be in their lives to any extent that he feels like it. And to me, the fact that things aren't in the exact way that he was. wants them. The dynamic isn't exactly when he has done absolutely nothing to earn that. When he's the one that broke up their relationship, like if he wanted to be with her, he could have been with her. The fact that she's now moving on to find someone who's interested in her and wants to be with her and wants to have a normal relationship with her that isn't clouded by this weird thing where he's like friends with her ex and living with him

and doing like, I'm kind of like, if you actually care about anyone besides yourself, you would back off. Right. And not to mention, with all of that, they haven't been together for like 20 years. It's not like, oh, you know, we got divorced 18 months ago and now it's weird because we're finally starting to move on. It's like you have had essentially unlimited leeway to be just in and out of these people's lives and, you know, open door whatever for two decades since this marriage fell apart on your, you know, on your behalf. And so the fact that this is really seem to be able. And so the fact that this is really seeming to affect him so deeply, it makes him look like the messy, emotionally unadjusted,

whatever. Like, he seems like the problem here. And he's totally the problem. Yeah. It was, it was refreshing to see Dolores kind of get fed up a little bit because I think it's totally justified. I agree. Like, the party's over just because like she was overly nice before, overly giving or

overhead too much leeway with you before. It doesn't mean you're entitled to it for the rest of your life. Like, grow up. Yeah. I mean, tough for me to be saying such, uh, such harsh things to about Frank Sr. But I mean, come on. He can, he can handle it. Oh my God.

I love that Dolores' dad brought his own Coca-Cola to her house. Dolores, Dolores, Dolores, his parents, simply some of the best on Bravo. I always love when we get to see them. Same. It was just very cute. I thought it was like her relationship with her dad was very adorable. Absolutely. Let's get into the final major piece of this episode. And that is Jen and Bill's couples therapy. We teased it at the beginning. But this is, this is really interesting that the reason that Bill has been lured to couples therapy after being so hesitant is because at the softball game, Rachel tells Jennifer that at the birthday party, she was talking to Olivia,

Olivia, who is like, what, 12 years old, 10 years old? I don't know. I can't keep track. She's so many kids. Olivia tells Rachel that when she grows up, she wants to be a therapist that deals with love and couples. And this is, I mean, almost certainly inspired by what her parents have gone through and specifically what her mom has gone through because of her dad's actions that she found out about on TikTok. Yeah.

This is tough. This is tough. I'm glad they're at couples therapy. The fact that it took Bill this specific stimulus to get him there is tough. Kind of random. Yeah. It's not like a vicious rumor, not like a rumor that was true being spread about them on national television last season like that to me should have been, maybe.

be the impetus. I think, yeah, hearing a little more background, though, about Olivia finding out about this, it really does illustrate, though, why I think it's been so tough for Jennifer to kind of move past this time when we know that this happened 10 years ago and they didn't talk about it for a long time, that for your kid to find out on TikTok that dad cheated on mom and then for her to ask her mom, like, do all men cheat? Like this is something that I think Jennifer is actually thinking about maybe for the first time of like this is setting a really rough example for my daughters about how this is supposed to work. Yeah.

And I think that is like a traumatic moment for a kid to that for that to happen to them, for that to be like in the national discussion and for them to see that kind of thing on TikTok about your parents and your relationship. So I can totally understand why that would really hurt her because this is her. Her job is being a mom to these kids. And again, I think they would try to unpack so many things in this. Clearly, they have a lot to discuss. Right. And so much came out just in like the, what was it, like the four minute clip of their therapy session that I was like, again, I could watch this for weeks.

And I actually, the one thing, again, I have my issues with Jen, but I did appreciate how like, open she was to sharing these real life marital issues, not even just the cheating. I mean, you see stuff where like she's talking about how he comes home from work and he spends three hours in the pool house and he doesn't even, like, speak to her like, that doesn't necessarily even have a direct link to the cheating. I thought it was just like, that's very real, that's very relatable. I'm sure for a lot of people watching. And I did appreciate that her, she's not trying to pretend anymore that she has this perfect

marriage. Yeah, and I think there's a big difference between when she feels like other people are trying to attack her or dig up this stuff about her relationship. I think she gets a lot more defensive about that, whereas now she's really looking at this stuff on her own terms and saying, okay, well, yeah, like, I didn't like that Margaret was the one talking about this rumor last season, But now that we're kind of looking in this direction, there's a lot of stuff happening that I am not good with. And the fact that Bill is one of those people who kind of is like, well, I'm the breadwinner. I have a stressful job. I work really hard.

So obviously it's her job to do all the hard parenting stuff. I think that's something that a lot of people probably can relate to and have dealt with if they're in. a relationship like that raising kids. And I think it is something super important to be open about. And it doesn't seem like this is ever maybe a conversation that they've really had before. Totally agree. And I think it was, it seems like, like you said, really real conversation, really interesting thing that I'm sure a lot of people go through when they're raising their kids. And I just thought it was such a great session. Very interesting. I don't know. I found like the office with the therapist, like the tiny therapist in the enormous chair.

And like, just like the kind of vibe of the office felt very off for the show, like, not as like Jersey, like, prim and pot. I don't know, like, like fancy or something. It was like very funny to watch. But that therapist seemed like she was at least sort of maybe doing a little more on the show than Teresa's. I agree. It was a little less of a storyline wall to bounce up against and more of like, no, we're going to get into some some shit here. Because I think Bill is one of those people where it seems. seems to me like he just has a very narrow idea of what it means to be pulling your weight in a

relationship or being a good husband. And to him that basically just is like, I make the money. And I make the money. I am, you know, not cheating on you anymore theoretically. Like, what more would I be doing? And she's like, you know, she's finally starting to kind of unpack that a little bit. and realize that that is affecting her negatively. Yeah. And it's, I mean, the fact that she was like,

I feel like I'm your employee and this is like my job and you're saying I'm not doing a good job because they get into like how, you know, he wants her to be harder on the kids. I can understand how he would be frustrated that it's kind of like, mom gives you everything you want. She always says yes and I have to come home and everyone hates me. And then I now it's out that I cheated on,

on her a while ago and ever, just another thing for the kids to hate me for. And so maybe that's, again, We haven't gotten that far into the therapy sessions, but maybe part of the reasons while he's retreating to the poolhouse is because he feels like his family doesn't like him, which again,

not saying that's undeserved. But I thought there was just so much good stuff to unpack there. I like wanted so much more of that session. Yeah. I'm curious to see over the rest of the season, is this something we return to? I'm sure, I mean,

obviously I'm sure we'll see Jen and Bill having conversations. But the therapy piece, I think would be kind of, fascinating to follow a little bit rather than just kind of like, well, do you remember what the therapist said that one time baby that you need to be better about not going in the pool house? Like I would like there to be some kind of like active, you know, working through stuff. Recurring. Progress. Homework. Whatever. Rather than just like, I would love that. Rather than just like, sometimes on housewives, they'll do the thing where it's like, well, we've been to therapy.

And it's like one session that they filmed. And it's like, that's not, that's not like participating in therapy. That's just like you spoke to a therapist on camera for an hour once. Right. Like Shannon and David, that was the fake like funeral, which was a great episode to look back on. Here lies Shannon. Oh my God. Oh, my God. But I totally agree with you. Question. Do you, if you were a betting man, would you predict that Bill and Jen will stay together? I think my I think my answer is yes partially like not to discount their relationship whatever I hope they work through things but I really just think from like a cultural standpoint it's tough for me to see Jen like throwing in the towel in a way that I think even if Bill doesn't improve on any of the pain points I have a really tough time seeing Jen kind of taking that step of being like, well, I can't be in this marriage anymore. And I think Bill, to be honest, if he wants to be, you know, a sleaze bag and get away with whatever

he wants to, I think he would be able to. So I think it's an arrangement that nobody is going to be eager to exit. But hopefully it gets better. Like I would rather it, I would rather they stay together because they are like working through their stuff. But no, I don't think they'll get divorced. Totally agree. I mean, I think Jennifer has made it one of her core beliefs that she keeps reiterating that you should never leave your husband. Right. Jen's belief that you should never leave your husband. Danielle's belief that it's always the wife. We have some strong principles here on Real Houseways of New Jersey. Strong convictions, yes. Oh, and as as Teresa says at the end of her therapy session, all this toxicity hurts. That should have been the title. That could be the title of our episode, even if it's not the title of their episode.

Love it. Love it. Well, Jordana, thank you, as always, for being here to break it all down with me. And I will see you again next week. See you then. Thank you, thank you. And thank you, everyone for listening. Don't forget to rate review and follow the show wherever you listen.

You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like Uncool. Mention It All is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousmacat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico, Social Media by Dylan Hafer, guest booking by Dylan Hafer, and Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th,

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