Mention It All - Bravo’s Forensic Files: Reality Von Tease Ft. Heather Gay

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

Not many Housewives can write one compelling memoir, but Heather Gay is now in rare company with a second tell-all book hitting shelves this week. She returns to the MIA studio to discuss ‘Good Time Girl,’ another collection of stories about her life, from childhood to Housewives. She chats about her process of deciding what should go in the new book, and how she navigates sharing sticky personal stories with the world (and her daughters). She and Dylan also discuss the best Bravo details in the book, from her complex relationship with Jen Shah, to her detailed account of the rise and fall of Monica Garcia. Later, Heather shares the significance of a recent trip with her daughters, and what it means to rebuild her family as a matriarchy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Home Depot.com slash price match for details. Betches Media presents. Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, boo. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Mention at All podcast.

I am really happy to be joined today by a numerous time guest of the show now. We've had her on, of course, multiple times to talk about Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. And now back for the second time to talk about a book with her name all over it. Please welcome Best Selling Author, Heather. gay. Hello. Hi. Thanks for having me. We are sitting down to record this on Tuesday, which is the day that your book. Pub day. Pub day, as the industry says. Good time girl is, is out there in the world. People, I'm sure, are like receiving their pre-orders and downloading it on their Kindles as we speak. What is it like, this specific day knowing that like a lot of people who are like following

you now for years are going to be like really diving in like as we speak what is that feeling like i mean it feels vulnerable yeah it feels vulnerable and exciting but also like i mean i've heard it said like it's like birth you know baby you want everyone to love it and appreciate it and just enjoy it and i really feel like i got such a great response with bad mormon and it was so connecting for me and just kind of life changing that i hope that good time girl gets the same type of reception, just people enjoying it and laughing and getting a little glimpse. I think it's interesting because now having read both of your books, they're similar but different. I feel like in a few ways where it's like they're both pretty intimate and you share stories

from throughout your life. There's childhood stuff in both. There's young adult stuff in both. There's housewife stuff in both. But like I think this one, it feels like lighter in a lot of ways because you obviously the first book you were sharing so much about. your journey with the church and with, you know, leaving the church and all of that. And I feel like with this one, it's like there's elements of that because it's part of your life. But like it feels like it's more kind of about like the personality behind the the journey maybe. Yeah, the funny, fun sides. And it's really the stories that like, because I was Mormon, I would have never spoken into existence. Like, this is the first time I'm telling

these experiences out loud for my kids to read, for my family, for my friends. So like, these were secrets I had that are really. ridiculous secrets. You know, they're funny. And so to share them now doesn't feel heavy. It doesn't feel like I'm unloading. It just feels like, yeah. Look how messed up I was. Right. Like there's, there's a story you tell in the book about when you were, how old were you when you went to California with your friends and then you went to Tijuana for the day? I mean, it's 18 is our high school graduation trip. Yeah. It's like, and that trip, that story is so like, I feel like it is relatable to so many people of like, you know, you're 18, 19. You do something

stupid with your friends. But it's like, it's not, there's nothing wrong with that story, but I can see, like, in, from your background, how it would be like this thing that you're never supposed to tell anyone about. Yeah, like this lens of shame and like, this is what happens when bad people do bad things, you know, like, it just felt like, yeah, deep shame. And it's such a ridiculous ride of passage for most people. But the way I grew up, it was a secret that I was going to take to the grave. Do you feel like after writing the first book, I know, I remember we talked about, you were really kind of uncertain of what various peoples and communities' reactions were going to be. Do you feel like with this one there was a little bit less of that kind of nervousness?

Because people are like the cat's out of the bag. Heather Gaines a bad Mormon. Definitely. And because I realized that I wasn't like alone. There's just this huge community and others like me and like support. And it just didn't feel like I was the one person, you know, betraying the faith. It felt like, oh, there's an audience for this out there that. feel the same as me. Right. And that, you know, maybe there are people who have decided that

you're not for them, but there are also just as many people who have decided that, like, you're kind of like their girl. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. In the book, you kind of talk about this idea of a good time girl and, like, how you spent so much of your life trying to be good and then kind of the dichotomy between like what those things mean. So can you talk about kind of when that came up in season one of Housewives, it was such a loaded thing of the good time girl accusation. if you could call it that. Like how were you kind of able to sort of reclaim that for yourself, knowing that it was a complicated thing?

Well, Lisa Barlow was always right. She was right all along. But it was a loaded thing for me because I had spent, these were secrets that I wanted to keep secret. And so to be labeled Good Time Girl when I knew secretly that I had gone to Tijuana, you know, that I had, you know, lusted after my professor. Like I knew those things, but then to be exposed like Good Time Girl flashing at BYU, it's just, it was a mark of horrible shame and it felt like the worst thing you could say

about me because it was kind of true. Right. Maybe this specific story that somebody had heard wasn't true, but you knew that there was still a kernel there of like, if I was living my 100% fullest, you know, truest life, that maybe I would be more like that. Yeah. Like I wanted desperately to be a good time girl. And so, and so I was a failure.

You know, and so for her to call me that, that's why it stung so much. But it's always the truest comments that cut the deepest. Yeah. Was there something when you were putting this book together, and there are a couple, I think it's fun, there are a couple of excerpts that you put in that are like directly pulled from things you had written when you were younger or like letters that you had written or like diary entries? Like I think that's really fun.

Was there anything that you were really like kind of on the fence about whether you were like, does this go in the book? Like, am I ready to share this? Is this something, like, does this even make sense? Like, what was kind of the piece that you were the least sure about? The least sure about. I mean, anything involving, well, it's hard because I'm least sure about a lot of it. Like, I was scared about talking about the girl's dad and young motherhood

and things about my marriage that I, you know, felt protective of them. But I think the harder thing was just like revealing, I mean, the sex stuff is hard for me to talk about. It's embarrassing. And I always lead with like jokes like I'll have a tiny person be like, oh, it's for a condom and a lipstick. But that's bravado and joking. You know what I mean? Like I've never even bought a condom. You know, like I felt uncomfortable riding the word loob.

Like I thought this is going to be my legacy. Well, I think, yeah, it's like you have your daughters are certainly old enough to like, you know, see and understand things. And, you know, you still do have this, you know, in your past a thing that that would be very taboo. So I feel like it makes sense that that would be uncomfortable to share. But also, I think with Housewives, something that's so interesting is people crave that kind of information. And I was at fan fest in Miami at The Watch What Happens Live when it's like, Heather, when are we going to see you with a boyfriend? And you're like, your guest is as good as fun. Like, there's nobody hiding behind the curtain. Yeah, there's not, there's no big reveal. I think it's just like,

you know, I was just trying to survive for so long that I wasn't really hopeful. that type of aspect to my life. But yeah, my kids are grown now. I think it is a new chapter for me. Hopefully the book cover will help. The heavily enhanced book cover will pave the way, you know. I did really laugh. There's you, you do write about Angie Katanavis in the book because she, when you had

written the first book, she wasn't really on the show yet. So we get kind of introduced to her through your eyes and you go back a long way with Angie Kay. I laughed so hard at the detail about her being like the worst wing woman, but with the best intentions. Of course, yeah. I think people would love to see that dynamic on the show a little bit. Having Angie set me up. Angie setting up like Heather Gay speed dating, I think would play like gangbusters.

I'd produce it if I were producer. She is so funny. And that story unfolded so hilarious that I wanted her to have like a chat. I think it's, I've talked to a couple of the women on the show about this and I had her on earlier in the season, but like she has fit so well into into the group on the show in a way that it's just like, it's hard to find somebody to come in, you know, three or four seasons into a really kind of deep ensemble and like slot in like that. But she, I mean, she, you would think she's been around forever. Well, she has been around forever. She has, she was in season one,

the grand opening of beauty lab. She was there. She was in the background. She was, you know, in she was our friend. She was in the community, like deep, deep roots in Salt Lake City. So that's kind of what makes it special, you know, is that we're really friends and colleagues. So good, so good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom Rack stores now

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Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit Red Bull.com slash Bright Summer Ahead to learn see you this summer. I'm curious, so you're in the middle of season five airing right now. And I think when your first book came out, it was like end of season three, I want to say. Like, it was like right around that time. Yes, end of season three, the dark season.

I'm wondering like, obviously the book is much more about your life kind of from start to now versus the show. It's like a snapshot in time. But like how do you feel like juggling those two things now that you've done it a couple times? Like, how do you kind of segment maybe like put things in different buckets with the show and with the writing? Well, the show changed my life and the show gave me the opportunity to write the book. So there isn't really a way to extrapolate the two or separate them. But there are certainly things that I know are specifically behind the scenes, little tidbits and details that as a viewer or anyone would want the fourth wall stuff, you know, that you want to hear about. but that's part of my story too.

Like every story I chose was like I was only able to tell it now because the show has given me the opportunity. Well, it's interesting because it's like when you're thinking about the idea of like a memoir sharing something about your life, it's like there's an interesting like balance between the stories about your life

before housewives where it's like those are interesting because they're interesting and you do a good job of telling them. But then it's like when you get to the housewife stuff, it's like, okay. So what's the deal with Monica? And it's funny. It's funny now reading both books that you've written that, like, I feel like the ability

to balance the stuff that people already pick up the book wanting to know about versus the stuff that you're kind of sharing for the first time. Like, it's, I think that is, it's a delicate balance. And I feel like you've achieved it twice now. Thank you. I mean, you know how, like, on Vanderpumper Rules, everyone was working there trying to be something else? Like, I'm trying to be a writer.

Yeah. I want to be a writer. I don't want to just be a housewife that got a book deal. Like, I love writing. It's how I fight the wiring. It's how I process my success and my failure. And it's, I love doing it. Yeah.

So it feels like, I know a little obnoxious to have another book so soon, but like, this is what I want to do. This is what I want to be. Well, and I think it's like you, you have to just accept that there are going to be some people who are like, why isn't she talking about housewives on page two? But it's like. But I am. Good time, girl. be surprised in chapter one. So they won't be disappointed.

You do the kind of like big closer to the book is this long chapter about Monica and the whole reality of Antease. And even before that. And I was not, I think you had you had said that that was going to be in the book. But the sort of detail that you went into kind of recounting the whole like arc of Monica in any of your lives, I found extremely compelling. And I'm wondering kind of how did you like orient yourself within that story a little bit? Because there are parts of it that like you didn't even know about happening at the time.

Like where I assume that was part of your like receipts proof timeline of like kind of going through this like trove of evidence. Like systematically like I approached it like a true crime podcaster. Like this happened. And even though I was in it. Yeah. I also could narrate it. And so I just told the story like. kind of how it unfolded because it was a crazy, crazy story.

Right. And you're there like, I think you do a really interesting job of like quoting text messages that had been sent and like things that had been posted and what was happening in which group chats and things like that. Like it is kind of, it was so satisfying to watch on the show, but that was the first time we had heard about it. And this is like kind of, okay, like, let me tell you where how, how do we get here? Yeah.

Like let's flip the lens and like, because there's no way that you could truncate. that timeline into a finale dinner, you know? And, and there was years. Yeah. Years. Think about that. Yeah. And it's kind of fascinated in the terms of like unscripted television and reality TV that it's been around so much that of course this was going to happen. Of course it wasn't going to always be organic, you know, just a group of friends in Salt Lake City. Yeah. Well, there was even I, there was a part of it where like the first time Monica, because Monica had interviewed to join the show, prior to season four when she actually came on. I think maybe for season three, she had a chance.

And she had already kind of recognized if they know how deep I'm in this like social media game, they're not going to cast me. So already there was that kind of like, okay, I'm playing both sides, but I have to reel it in a little bit because, you know, if they think that I'm playing this long game, then they're not going to want me on the show. But I also don't want to stop watching the security cameras in Jen's house. it's like a lot of layers are going on there. Yeah, like you feel like she was like seeing which fish was going to be bigger.

Yeah. You know? I also as somebody who is in the Bravo social media space, I really did laugh when you were talking about how she would like talk shit about the accounts that didn't follow her back. Oh, yeah. I mean. I think the phrase you use is fuckface, stanky bitches. Or maybe that's the phrase she used.

Yeah, that's a direct quote. I was like, wow, I guess I'm in the book in a way. You are. The loyalty didn't extend to anyone. I'm curious, like, you do, you talk about Jen in the book also, which I want to talk about. But like, with Monica, like, have, are you nervous for her to, like, see the way you talk about her in the book? Or, like, have you heard from her at all? Like, she seems like somebody who will make her thoughts known.

I mean, that would track. But she, I mean, we settled. We won our lawsuit. for the services. And that was the last time I saw her as at a deposition. But then, yeah, I'm not sure how she'll react. But the thing is, they're her words. They're direct quotes.

It's, you know, an online space, and she is very vocal. And so a lot of that is just pulled from things that she's already said. So I don't know if she'll like the way it's been told, but it's what happened. Yeah. And I think that's like, to think about that, it's like, okay, moving into the future, It's like if there was, if she wanted to do something else, that's one thing. But like the past is the past. Yeah, you can't change it.

I mean, I do have added security at my house, obviously. And license plate detection security camera. Oh, my gosh. But once you're violated in that way or you know someone's capable of doing that, it changes your perspective on all new people in your life. Yeah. Well, I think that's, I mean, something maybe when people were signing up to do a TV show 15 years ago or even five years ago, I don't know, maybe that wasn't something.

that you really felt like you had to consider. But I mean, you guys get a lot of attention and not all of it is positive. And it's, you know, you don't know exactly what the next thing is going to be that comes down the pipeline. Yeah. Baby reindeer, baby.

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only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You in, must be 21 to enter. You all in Salt Lake City have been on a real roller coaster in the last five years. It's pretty intense. We've come up together. Think of what we've been through.

It's remarkable. I think it's remarkable what we've survived. Yeah. You talk about after that, the dinner in Bermuda, when it was, you felt like it was the first time that you, that something happened to the group and you let it bring you together rather than kind of tear you apart and that you felt this sisterhood and like you had each other's backs.

Like we're like a year past that. There's another season in the in the can. Like how do we feel like the sisterhood is holding up? I know there's some ups and downs. There's ups and downs, but that's because it's real friendships, you know, and real conflict. But I feel, I almost was afraid I couldn't do this. show after Bermuda because I had so much like love and gratitude and trust in these women.

And conflict comes and goes. You know, we offend each other daily. So that will never go away. But it did change how I loved them. Because if, you know, in Housewise world, a dinner party, anything can happen. You know what I mean? And they just really, it just was a night that we really did pull together. Yeah.

It makes sense that like when you're in this kind of, you know, experience with other people, like there's, there's only so many people that know what it's like and that maybe there's, maybe you go through a rough patch with somebody or you're not on great terms, but that like maybe there's a deeper understanding or a deeper kind of kinship that you can come back to. I mean, that's perfectly said. Like the foundation is who else at that table understands what it's like to say something accidentally and be trolled for years about it. You know what I mean? Or just to feel that. that type of scrutiny and also that type of vulnerability. And there's very few people that can relate. And so we have to lean on each other.

I thought it was people, people really thought it was interesting to hear Meredith say a couple weeks ago that Jen had called her recently and they had their 10 minute recorded penitentiary phone call. Has your phone rang from the prison at all? No. I have not. I have not talked to Jen. I think it's, it is kind of interesting.

You put it in context. there's a chapter about your relationship with Jen. And obviously you got a lot of criticism for how you kind of handled that situation. And you relate it in the book to your relationship with the church and that you're kind of, you're in this, you're in the thick of it. And it can be hard to kind of like see, you know, the forest for the trees and that that whole kind of idea. Like, what was it like for you to kind of now that that's a couple years in the past,

really like take a step back and sort of like put that in its place on the shelf? a little bit. I mean, I have like more compassion for myself, you know, like I understand now. Like, because when I was in it, like, I didn't even, I didn't even know what was happening. You know, it's like happening so fast and I, it got so big and so out of control so I can look back at it now with time and distance and understand why those were my coping mechanisms, why that was my, you know, why I was scared and why I was blindly loyal. And I just have, you know, a little bit more empathy for myself, which is kind of like reclaiming the title Good Time Girl, you know, like rather than this like cloud of shame, it's a badge of honor. And, you know, I have many,

many deep regrets. But figuring out why I did things, you know, helps me forgive myself a little bit. Yeah. I think also like thinking about just like the time you've spent on the show, it's like there the wild swings and the ups and downs. Like it's you, it is kind of, I think, easy to lose yourself in that a little bit and like to kind of be able to to take stock. I mean, you guys have have been on a really consistent clip with your seasons. And I think viewers really appreciate that. Because sometimes if shows have a little bit more trouble kind of like keeping the cast together or figuring out what to do, like we can have these long breaks. And like doing five seasons in five years, it does take a toll in certain ways. And I think, you know, you do have to kind of figure out how to how to ride

that without letting it kind of ride you, I guess. I mean, I'm not going to turn that down. Yeah, it's a great point. Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious, like, in the earlier phases of the book, like, there's a lot of stuff about your marriage and you talk about the story about, like, getting married in Hawaii and then on your honeymoon, this wanting to go see the sunrise. That was very important to you.

I really liked that story. I thought it was really kind of poignant. And then there is this picture of you and your daughters in Maui in the book. Like what was it like kind of? Was that the first time you had been back there since your honeymoon? Yeah, that was the first time I'd been back to Maui since my honeymoon. Can you talk about that? It was like we're a matriarchy now.

And like I thought all of my happiness and joy was going to come from the patriarchy, from the husband, you know, experience and having a husband that enjoyed those things with me. but having three daughters and being able to go there on our own accord, to have financial independence, emotional independence, and to love each other and be able to share it with them was it just felt full circle. Yeah. And it felt like instead of always looking back on my life as a loss, I could see like how so much had been gained.

Well, I think it's figuring out how also to kind of look back at maybe decisions that you, wish you had done differently and not just see it as like wasted time or you know something that was totally pointless that it's like you find kind of the value in your experiences and kind of like recontextualize them in a way and like appreciate and be grateful for you know the experiences that got me here you know do you what is it like with your daughters now like seeing you on the show the books that you've written like how much how much do you feel like they kind of like engage with what you have going on. I know with like teenage daughters sometimes the interest level might be low, but I think I think the reason that Good Time Girl is a lot more

revealing is because my daughters have grown up so much. You know, they're 18, 21, and 17. And so they're, and they have a much more adult mentality. So I'm less protective and more openly honest with them. And when I was like determining what I wanted to protect them from, I saw it through a different lens for the first time that like you can protect them by being honest. about what marriage really was like and what your expectations were and how they were dashed and how you can build your life around an idea. Yeah. Never even trying that idea out first.

And so I think like they love the book. I mean, I read them the stories. They think the same things I think are funny that they think are funny. And Ashley, my oldest was home for Thanksgiving. And she couldn't put the book down. And so seeing that, seeing her, like listening to her laugh, seeing her enjoy, seeing her same mom, it's so good, seeing her cry. That, like, was truly satisfying for me. I can imagine. Because it is, it is something where it's, like, writing the book and

deciding what to put in it is something that, like, only you can do. Well, you and, like, your editor isn't, you have up. But, like, they did cut some of my chapters out, which will be in book three. This is the game. I've learned the game now. I let them edit now. And I put it in It's like a very personal thing to kind of like construct it, but then to get to receive that kind of like feedback and reaction from people in your life, let alone like, you know, a million people that you've never met before. Like it's, I would have to imagine it's like cool, but also a little weird. It's cool and weird. And it's like it always reminds me of this scene in girls. Did you watch girls with London?

I did. Okay. So, you know when they find her diary, Marnie's diary and they sting at a song lyrics and she's like, I mean, but as a piece of work, did you think it was. It was good. You know? That goes through my head all the time. Like when I'm like saying horrible stories of like, you know, trauma. And then I'm like, but as writing, was it good?

Was it the material good? And I feel that. And that's how I knew that what I really want to be is survived. Like I want people to just enjoy reading it. Yeah. Even if it's not about me, you know. Maybe a novel someday. I mean so many things.

I would like to take receipts timeline and make that like a whole docu-series. What a year it's been for. It's been a big year. It's so funny the way life works. I feel like there's so much going on. Yeah, I mean, my life is absolutely transformed since Housewives. Like, I don't even recognize it. I think also, I mean, just like I talk to so many people about Housewives in Salt Lake City.

And it's just like, there are so many people who aren't really like Housewives people who are like, okay, but Salt Lake. They're like, that Salt Lake, it's kind of, it's kind of spicy. There's a lot going on. I'm like, mm-hmm. I cried at last week's episode. I laughed the week before. There's a lot going on. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm so proud to be a part of it. It takes a lot to put your life on camera. And I think everyone shows up in Salt Lake. And I love and appreciate them for it. Yeah. I'm curious, you dedicate, your first book was dedicated to your daughters. This book is dedicated to members of the Pink Pony Club everywhere.

I love Chapel Rhone. I'm wondering what does this signify to, like, you in particular? where boys and girls can be kings and queens every single day, you know, like a world where the pink pony club and also I dedicated to pink pony club because that's about the abbey. And the abbey has an appearance in West Hollywood chapter. And Chapel has, Chapel's first love was a bad Mormon. You know, there's all these, you know, I always look for the connections. She grew up in Missouri and she has, I just, something about her strength just inspires me. And like I desperately wished I had had like inspiration like that when I was young.

And so like, because I was a member of the Pink Pony Club, but I didn't know that it would have me. You would have gotten in trouble if you said it. I would have gotten in trouble. I could say that out loud. And I just, I think that she does a great job of embracing that individuality and like, you know, championing it. And so that's why I dedicated it to. Totally. I think that's cool.

I think it's interesting. That story that you mentioned of like being in West Hollywood, that was when your first book, like the cover shoot was happening. I think it's cool in this one now that it's almost like you're building the Heather Gay lore like brick by brick of like okay now we get some of the BTS of the first book like yeah right it's not just like oh there is something else that happened when I was 12 it's like no it's like we're we're building on it like there's there's always something more fully well Whitney and I went to Australia together for a week and then extended and we kept saying we had so many stories happen she's like book three and she wants to co-author

it and I was like I'll give you a royalty but I'm I'm authoring it but I mean we like are living these experiences that I want to write about, you know? But did you also get that the last line of the last chapter was Chapel Rhone? What was it? Oh, it was like I don't want the world, but I'll take this city. Yes. Yeah. So it was a little, there was a little, you know, alpha and omega.

I feel like if Whitney, I feel like Whitney's memoir would also be really interesting, but there would be a lot of like meditation mantras and like it would get a little, it would get a little woo-woo, maybe. I mean, it would depend on her, who helped her write it. I mean, like, you depend on what message you want to get out there. But the Whitney that I know in love is just so free-spirited, so fun, so sexy, so wild. Yeah. And that I forget that she has a spiritual side.

I'm like, what? We're not Mormon anymore. In a weird way, I mean, I've read a lot of these, you know, Bravo Leopardy books. And I kind of feel like everybody in Salt Lake City has a story under there. We've all, every single one of those women have a book to write. I'll happily ghost write for them if they want me to do. Have any of them, like, talked to you about like, okay, so like, tell me what's the tea on like this book thing? Like, how do I, how do I do it for myself?

Not like, not like, not like self-serving, but just kind of like that curiosity wanting to do it. No, I don't think any of them. I mean, I think they all should. None of them are even expressed interest. But like when I read parts of it too, I'm like, they're like, you're a great rider. Like, this is what you should do. I'm like, good. This is what I'll do.

You guys go sell stuff and start businesses and I'll do books. Sell her to Key, like, fight over bath bombs. Yeah. But they all, I mean, Meredith's story, I would be a page turner. I think Lisa's story too, the way we all grew up, how we all ended up in Salt Lake at the same time. And the story of just us becoming famous together. Yeah. You know, like we weren't like we weren't O.C. Beverly Hills.

Right. There's no Denise Richards in your cast. Yeah. Yeah. We were just like, we came into this world together. Yeah. I mean, we've talked about this, but it's like in 2019 when Real House House of Salt Lake City was announced, people were like confused. As for we, we thought it was a show about business women in Utah.

And, you know, there are plenty of business women in Utah. You know, we're about to see some real estate ladies on. Yeah, sold on SLC. I'm excited to watch that. I think that that's, it's like, okay, like. And in the trailer, like, little Mormon bits come in. I'm just like, you can't escape. Right.

When she said, like, the Jen Commandments, I'm like, this woman I need to know more about. I'm curious, like, in your circle, do you feel like there are kind of like more people that you would want to, like, introduce to the world, like, whether it's on the show or in your book, like, bring on friends to bring on? I guess, like, not necessarily, like, people who should be housewives, but just kind of like, I feel like Salt Lake City seems like such a, it's almost like a hidden gem of, like, so many interesting people. Yeah, and yeah, there are a couple women that I know peripherally that I would love to watch on television and that I would love to know, you know, go to dinner with, go on a trip with. And, yeah, there's a couple of women that. And,

But there's still a little bit of scrutiny in Salt Lake. There's still some virtue signaling that it's like not appropriate, not okay. So I'm just waiting for all of those women to get divorced so that they can join the show and live their best lives with us. And you're going to build your own, I don't know, something someday. Third book, trilogy. It'll be good time, grandma. Oh, my gosh.

Maybe a few more years to go before that. Hopefully. Well, Heather, thank you so much. Thank you for being here. And congratulations on the book. It's available now. If there's any last words just talking about this book, like what do you hope people get from it? I hope they laugh.

I hope they feel like they've been behind the scenes with the housewives and they get to see what happens when the cameras go down. Perfect. Thanks, Heather. Thank you. Thanks for listening. And don't forget to rate review and follow the show. Get Heather's book wherever you get your books. And until next time, be cool.

Don't feel all like uncool. Mention It All is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales, Pico, and Rebecca Sousmancat. Editing by Jorge Morales Picoe. Social media by Dylan Hafer. Guest booking by Dylan Hafer and Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. Betches.