Mention It All - Denise Richards’ Show Is Not The Spin-off We Need Ft. Rachel Lindsay

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

Today, Dylan is joined by reality TV expert Rachel Lindsay for a wide-ranging tour of everything happening on Bravo right now. Rachel shares her Bravo origin story, and whether her own experiences on the Bachelor franchise changed the way she watches her favorite reality shows. Then, she and Dylan dig into the RHOP reunion, and why Stacey’s big moment was so exciting for everyone involved. They also discuss this season of Southern Charm (including Venita’s social media drama), and whether this season of RHOBH is meeting the mark for fun. Later, Dylan has some thoughts on the premiere of the Denise Richards show, and Rachel has an idea for a spin-off we actually want. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The C-Store Online for details. Betches Media presents. Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, though. Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I am so thrilled today to be joined by a favorite personality of mine across lots of different areas. And she, thankfully, is a fellow Bravo lover, Bravo scholar, Bravo podcast host. You know her, you love her. Please welcome Rachel Lindsay. Hello. Hello. Thank you so much for having me. So happy to be here. Any day that I can talk about Bravo or Housewives is a good day. I know. Okay. I'm excited to get into it. I just want to start by kind of

taking a step back for a second and asking you, Rachel, what is your Bravo origin story? Because everybody has a different kind of entry point. Everybody has a different timeline. How did we get here? Okay. So mine started, it might have started with Jersey. But I didn't watch the first two seasons of OC. So I came in on season three. So I feel like that's like 2008. But for me, I was looking for an escape because I was in law school at the time. And it's just anybody who's in law school will tell you it's just a lot.

It's like you eat, breathe, sleep, live law. And I just needed a really good escape. And so somehow, I don't even think. he was recommended to me. I must have been scrolling on the TV, TV surfing, because that is what we did back in 2008. And I stumbled across these fabulous women, and that is how I got hooked. And to be honest, too, I was in such a world where everything was so black and white and everything was so strict and rigid that I admired the courage of these women to just be able to put it all out there because at the time, I was like, that is something I could never do.

That's, yeah, no, it is, it is crazy. I mean, you were really, you were early on the bandwagon then. I mean, that was, back in 2008, it was a whole different world. And I would say that maybe back then, Housewives was more of an escape from the legal world. Now it feels like it's, it's all tied together in so many ways. Yeah. So I'm curious then, obviously, like you,

alluded to you have your own experience on reality TV. And I'm so curious to hear from you how that has changed the way that you watch these shows and sort of think about them. Just knowing that peek behind the curtain has to kind of shift your viewpoint a little bit. Yes and no. I'm really good at compartmentalizing things and understanding one. It's kind of like you say in sports and inherit risk of the game when you talk about injury. That's kind of how I feel about housewife or just any reality TV. You know that you are giving up control of how you are portrayed to an audience. So I go in understanding that. But if I watch reality TV knowing, questioning every single detail or saying to myself, well, that can't be true or that's not how it was for me, then I wouldn't

enjoy it the same way. So I'm really able to say that this was my experience on a completely different show and different subject matter. I don't really watch love reality shows. I kind of have dabbled into the love is blind, but I don't watch every season. So these lifestyle shows, I'm like, okay, this is different. I'm going to take exactly what it is that they give me unless I learn something else different on social media or reunion. Yeah, I kind of think about that too, because people love to kind of dig up any little question marks they can. And they're like, oh, well, this wasn't this. And this person said that. And the edit was doing this. And I'm I'm like, I think that that is interesting on a certain level.

But then at the same time, I'm like, part of the reason that I like watching these shows is because they do such a careful job of packaging it all together and really like delivering a full experience of watching it. And with something like the Potomac reunion that we just had this past week, like that was edited, produced to perfection. I mean, everything that was happening on that episode, it's like, I don't, I just want to sit here and like be glued to the TV and I don't need to know exactly, you know, the minute by minute time stamp of everything that was said that we didn't see. I completely agree. I watch these shows like I'm watching a movie. I'm not the person who watches a movie who tries to figure out who the killer is or what the ending is going to be. I completely immersed myself in it and I'm just along for the ride. And I would give that advice to anybody who's watching reality TV. just enjoy the ride. Don't try to, you know, like be a producer or figure it all out, like even to your point with Potomac.

I didn't even want to look on social media because they teased it for a month. Let's be honest. I wasn't trying to figure out the reason that TJ wasn't at the reunion. I wanted them to tell me. If you're going to string me along, I just want to continue to be strung along. You're like, I'm willing to be strung along. Up to a point. Up to a point.

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Girl, Winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope.

It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. I'm so curious to get your take on this Stacey and T.J. situation because watching it, the thing that struck me the most, obviously I was very entertained, but still I rise, everything. You know, Stacey is one of a kind. But it was so crazy to me how all of the women immediately were 100% believing T.J. and not believing Stacey. After a whole season of them dogging T.J. dragging him through the mud, all of a sudden, he must be telling the truth.

What is your kind of read on that? Do you believe him? Do you have questions? Where are you falling on that? I almost want to do my Stacey voice. Well, if all I think about it, this is what this revealed to me. These women don't like Stacey. And they, I think if I was in that moment sitting on the couch and this was revealed to me, it's fun to believe T.J. Right? That it's exciting. It's provocative. It's like, oh my gosh, I cannot. not believe this whole time. You know, we always knew something was off. That's the fun thing to believe. I would think as they walked away from the couch, it's kind of like, well, we know when things have happened to us that weren't exactly the truth or somebody was trying to tarnish our name or somebody was a little bitter about a situation. But I think it was easy and fun because they were,

I mean, elated by this entire thing. Well, it's like if you're, if you're like a truffle hunter and you're digging in the woods and you find the giant truffle, it's an exciting discovery. You feel like you can go home for the day because you made your big, you got your big, you know, win. And I think that, yeah, going into next season, presuming that Stacey and most of these other women are back, I think we're going to see a little bit of a maybe like a walk back of some of that excitement. Yeah, I mean, I was excited. But I will say it was disappointing for me. There's, I think there's a little bit of truth into what TJ's saying. What I think is that he, I think she said, this is a barter for services. You're an actor. Maybe there's a lull in your career. We know the industry's a little shaky

right now. Why don't you come on this show that has an audience full of women. You're a man that's attractive. This could boost your presence, maybe open up new doors for you, give you a little acting gig, and you just come on to be my best friend. And we don't do anything too crazy. Or, you know, we insinuate that we're together or we have some sort of relations. That's what I think happened. But T.J.'s also messy. I mean, he's now gone on social media and said, you know, you don't want me to show, like, well, who's, do what man does that? You don't want me to say what I have. Well, then say it, T.J. And hurry up because I'm already over-throw. We've moved on. Atlanta starts soon. Atlanta starts soon. We've got Beverly Hills still going on. We've got Southern Charmer, I think, is having a great season.

And speaking of the kind of third party in the relationship, bringing the receipts on social media, there's been some back and forth with Vanita and JT's alleged girlfriend situation happening. I want to recap this a little bit because I haven't gotten a chance to talk about it. But so after last week's episode, they're in the Bahamas. We see Vanita late at night going to TJ's hotel room, TJ, JT, these men need real names. Please, Lord. But so Vanita goes to the room, and this is after we've seen on the show, JT, being like, we can't be a thing because I'm supposed to be dating someone, which like, what is that terminology? And then Vanita goes on social media and says, I have to clear my name here.

This edit was misleading. That conversation with J.T., where he says he has a girlfriend, was actually filmed after we got back from the Bahamas. So, you know, I understand they can do what they need for the show, but I have to clear my name here. Cut to the girlfriend, the woman who JT. is supposed to be dating, says on social media that she was introduced to Vanita last spring as Jarrett's girlfriend. What? Jarrett. So she says there's no way that you were filming this whole season and didn't know that he was seeing someone. to me, I'm a little bit like, if I met you in the spring and then it's June and he hasn't brought you up again, maybe you're not still together.

I think that there's a lot of gray area here. But just the way that we are fighting over JT on Instagram, I'm like, what is happening here? The only winner in this is JT, right? You've got these beautiful women fighting over you. You know, I say this about the men on reality TV. The women worship them. I've seen it with the Bravo Lebrides. I've seen it with the Bachelor men.

And I always joke and I'm like, these guys probably, specifically with The Bachelor, I can speak to more of, they weren't the most popular person or had all the most beautiful women throwing themselves at them. And then all of a sudden this is happening. They become superstars, at least in reality TV world. And it goes to their head. And they start filling themselves. JT is clearly feeling himself.

He showed his ass in the first episode. You know what I mean? I know he was giving himself a shot. but he still wanted us to see that thing. Like, it's gone to JT's head. I went off on my podcast about the Vanita situation, and I'm not going to get it all into it, but I, nobody, it didn't move the story forward.

It only made Vanita look bad. And knowing that they played with the timeline to make Vanita look bad was very disappointing to me for a number of reasons. I feel like they played into the certain stereotypes of black women. And so I'm glad Vanita came out and said something. But what I really want, and I know this isn't going to happen unless there's holding on to this, they've already filmed the reunion. I want that girlfriend at the reunion.

One, for the messiness of it all, but two, because I want that girlfriend at the reunion. I want her to be, I don't want it to be a this and that between J.C. and Vanita. Yeah, that's an interesting point because I feel like there are certain situations. I don't want every side character or every, you know, person on social media ever to get invited to the reunion. I think we can be a little bit selective. But there are certain situations where it's like, even though this woman is not on the show, her existence and her, you know, version of events has a material impact on what we're seeing. And to only ever hear from her in a shady Instagram story, it does a disservice to kind of like the completion of the story arc. I think, because you're always sort of just hearing, you know, like you said, JT's feeling himself.

He doesn't really have any, he doesn't have any incentive to be completely honest. And we see that with all the men on Southern Charm, that it's like, Shep is giving us his version of his, you know, long lost love affair with Sienna this whole season long. And then the second they're in the Bahamas, it is like the most embarrassing thing you've ever seen on television. Well, and that's the thing. If the Bahamas was filmed earlier, then I mean, I'm now confused on the Sienna and, and Shep of it all, I will say that Shep was really bought. I was with Shep during Bravo Fan Fest, and he mentioned Sienna to me.

And so I know, like, he was still a heart about, he was like, this wild situation. So I know that he was still affected by that whole thing, but I need someone to, break down that timeline. I also need Sienna at the reunion. I agree with you. We can't have everyone because then everyone would just be saying whatever on social media to get a seat at the reunion. But Sienna's gone on TikTok and, you know, given us this full series, which doesn't make sense, which you have to listen to on 1.5 to even get through. I mean, it's so slow. But I need to understand the full story from Sienna as well. Yeah, from her, from her perfect little freckled lips to our ears. Yeah, it is strange sometimes when you have these kind of, you know, tertiary people on the show.

Like, she seems so uninterested in really participating in this trip, in this filming process. She doesn't want to come on the boat. She's like, I'll see you at dinner. You go to the snorkeling. I'll go to the fish fry, but I'm actually not going to go to either. So then when somebody, when the show's airing all of a sudden, and you have all the TikToks and you have all the Instagram stories, it is kind of like, you had your chance to be a participant in this. And now it just feels like you're not happy with the way it was portrayed or you want to kind of have your moment after the fact. And the stuff that she's throwing out there about actually Whitney was in her DM's first. Like it does feel like, okay, like what's the actual story here?

Because Southern Charm next season is not going to be the Sienna show. Like we're not, she's not going to get more camera time out of this. I mean, unless she slides back in Whitney's DM. then maybe, maybe. Good sleep is everything. That's why Ali's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-Dienine for both kiddos and grown-ups.

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wanting to get with Whitney. And I'm like, is there literally anyone else on the play? planet that we can push in her direction. I know. The only person that's giving her the love back is that tuba. Is that what she plays? Somebody, wait, I said it was a tuba. Somebody got mad at me for calling it a tuba.

I think it might be a sousaphone, which I was not familiar with, but. The only people who know what that is are the people who were sitting next to her during that orchestra, that show, whatever it was. Give us some grace. It is interesting to think about, though, with Southern Charm, like the, the amount of mileage that they've gotten out of these men over 10 seasons and the friendships between Shep and Craig and Austin. And it does feel like this season is kind of like a little bit of a turning point in the makeup of that group. And I'm like, maybe we're outgrowing these,

these relationships. We are. I think, you know, we constantly, at least I do compare Southern charm to Vanderpump roles. And obviously, that came to a halt because of, you know, the scanned of all of it all and it just completely dissected the group and just changed the whole dynamic of the show. Nothing like that has happened with Southern Charm, but we're seeing it play out. Craig just wants to stay in his house and invite people to come over and play in his backyard. Austin seems very settled down with his girlfriend who lives out of state. You know, they just opened up that restaurant or bar or whatever it is. They're growing up. Shep doesn't seem to be. But they seem to be growing up and doing their own thing and moving on with their

lives. People aren't doing them, aren't adding enough to the show to keep it going. We're seeing that on Southern Hospitality, which I don't even watch a lot of. I've only seen the first season, but they've kind of stepped in and picked it up where Southern Charm fell off. Yeah, it's interesting to think about the Vanderpump comparison, because when you think about them sort of aging into the next phase of their lives, now we have the Valley, which is not a direct, you know, sequel series to Vanderpump, but it is kind of representing that next stage. And it, it turned out so much better than anyone was expecting. Whereas with Southern Charm, ostensibly, these people are just growing with the show, but then it does feel like we're still bringing in

these like hot young girls every season and we're still all trying to hook up with each other. And it's like, this isn't a show about people with husbands and babies at all. This is a show about the same thing it was about 10 years ago. Right, right. And I say bring Catherine back. That's my thing. Let's get Thomas back. Let's get Catherine back.

Let's dig into these files and bring some of these people back because the Ryan guy, I'm constantly shouting, who is this man? Where did he come from? They didn't even give him a seat at the reunion. Why is this man here? JT edition has been good, I will say that. And I do love Rodrigo. But there's just not enough going on with that.

show and I don't know what the next phase is. And I think that they have their work cut out for them as what are they in season 10? Uh-huh. Yeah. I can't even imagine where you go to season 11 because if you really think about it, this is the first season that the drama has not centered around Austin. Austin has completely, since Austin arrived, it's always been some, there's been some Austin's been doing something wild, something where like, I can't believe Austin did that.

Now he's not. And there just doesn't seem to be the same behind this season as there has been before. And I think he's aged out of it. Yeah. It's crazy to think that like Austin being in a happy relationship could be like the most detrimental thing to this show. It is. The Taylor thing was last season. There was all sorts of Olivia back and forth.

I miss Olivia for one. But it's, it does feel like, yeah, this, this show kind of requires that level of messiness to sort of keep the plates spinning. And I think this season, thankfully, we've gotten it from other areas like JT kind of, you know, shitting the bad left and right. But it does feel like there is sort of that, that central thing is maybe, I mean, sustainable for 10 years, I guess, but how much longer can it really, you know. Exactly. I think Summerhouse is sort of bumping up against that same thing right now as well. It's just like, okay, so it's been nine years of going to the Hamptons every weekend and partying. And now there's going to be a baby.

And what, like, what are we doing here? Do you think that Lindsay has accepted that the baby has going to push her out of Summerhouse? I don't think she's fully accepted that. It is like, it's hard to even wrap your mind around because for nine seasons, it has just been so status quo, obviously with some big ups and downs. relationship-wise, but that, like, yeah, like having a physical human child is different in a way that no relationship or breakup or engagement can be. And, yeah, like, I don't, my instinct isn't to say, like, oh, Lindsay should just leave and we never see her on our screens again. But it does seem like to just brush it off and be like, oh, we'll figure it out. It's like, but how? But what does that look like?

But are you the only person in the group with a kid or are we bringing on another mommy that you can hang out with? No. Yeah. It cannot be the babysitters club. It just can't. And I say this with love. Love kids. But Summer House is Summer House.

It's a show about people getting wild and crazy and free every weekend in this iconic place. You can't, you can't add a baby to it. You just can't. She can come one weekend, you know? And I don't know what happens with that show. That's going to be really interesting. I mean, yeah, I'm just thinking in my head of, I paused, I'm thinking in my head about the evolution of some of these characters.

Like, look at Carl. Look at the Carl we got. We signed up to watch that Carl and good for him. He has, he is sober. He is in a better place. He knows what he is doing. That's what you want to see. But then I want to see you move on.

And then I want to see other people come. in, you know, and for some reason, that doesn't happen in these shows or they try and it fails. Think about Van der Pump rules where they brought in those three, four new people and it just didn't land right. We didn't, and maybe that's our fault as an audience. We didn't fully accept them. This might be our fault. Bravo is trying to do that.

And we're saying now, we want to go back. Yeah. We want that old thing back. Yeah. It's hard. I mean, I've talked to people who work at Bravo. and it's so hard to get people bought in for new shows, for new cast members, for new things and formats that they're trying. I mean, you mentioned Southern Hospitality.

I think that this season has been a step up for them in terms of the level of attention, and it's their third season. And how many shows and cast members and things aren't ever going to get to a third season because people are just like, that's the new thing. I don't, that's not, you know, something I'm making time for. I think something like the Valley, I mean, not to, I don't know why the Valley is on my mind. I guess it always is, but like that that's the rare example of a show that people weren't excited for that really proved us wrong. And I think with something like you mentioned the new season of Atlanta coming soon, whatever they're going to want to do with New Jersey, the New York reboot, stuff like that. It's like, obviously you and I are going to watch it and give it a chance. But there are so many people who are just like, great, one less thing I have to keep up with.

You think that's how people are? I know, I'm like, first off, I'm still trying to figure out why we haven't had a girls' trip in a while. I know we're never going to get that season that happened with Brandy and Caroline. But like, we loved ultimate girls trip. Give us something out. Give us something that's working. I need a full plate when it comes to Bravo. And I feel like more people do, especially now that you're having, you know, like back in the day, we're OGers with all of this.

Back in the day, people kind of looked at you sideways when you said you watched all of these reality TV shows. Now you're having celebrities pop out and give their opinions, you know, Ben Stiller on an Oscars carpet is telling Doreet and Kyle what to do. John Hamm watches every single show and can do monologues to memory. people are wearing their Bravo, you know, shield proudly. And I think that is making the audience get even bigger. I think Watch What Happened Live. Watch What Happens Live has been huge for that. And so people want more.

You know, we have an insatiable appetite when it comes to these shows. So they have to give us more. I, for one, I'm never like, ooh, I don't have to watch that anymore. The fandom, I do think, like, it's sort of like a self-sustaining thing. that it's like the more we have to latch on to, even think about, I mean, like, I'm involved on like the social media side of things. And if there's a week where it feels like there's nothing going on and nothing to post about, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's like, we all love Scary Island. How many more times can I post a scary island throwback?

But when there is something like that Potomac reunion or like, you know, Southern Charm and all of the, you know, multiple things happening that kind of really you're just bouncing from one thing to the next, I love that. I know that you love that. And I think I'm always hoping that stuff is good. And so like with something like Atlanta, I'm like, please be good. Just I want it to be good. I know. I will say, did you go to Bravo Fan Fest? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So I had Portia on one of my panels. It was something about like the panel was, it was all the women who like don't hold back. And it was a great panel. But I literally turned to Portia and I said, I'm so glad you're back. And I just, think her energy alone and her presence is going to make it great. I think we might have the right. I don't know about the new girls, but the OJers that we're getting on this season, I think, are enough. We know the Kenya drama, but it still seems to, there still seems to be more after her,

especially bringing back Fajara after that. So I have high hopes for Atlanta. Maybe I shouldn't, but candy needed to go. And I like candy. But again, it was her time. Maybe she comes back. But bringing back Fadre and Portia, it sounds like it's going to be fun. Even when there was no drama with Atlanta, the shadiness, the funniness of the women made it a great season. Yeah, I think that's something to recognize that even if a season isn't the most impactful in terms of storyline and in terms of making headlines and people, you know, being obsessed with it, I think there is just such an important level of just like enjoyability and entertainment. factor that some of these iconic women can just like lock in and and give us something and give us somebody to laugh at and somebody to talk about. And like I hope that's my hope for Atlanta this season that it just clears that bar of being like fun to watch again. Because I think

the last season, it kind of was in that place where it was like, what are we really doing here? And I always just want to be baseline entertained. You bring up a really interesting point about being fun to watch. I think that some of these franchises have been so heavy that we've lost that. Like Salt Lake City to me is the masterclass of it all because even if there's a serious topic, there's still a lot of fun and such ridiculousness surrounding it and so silly, some of the arguments that there's a really good balance, but Jersey got too heavy. Potomac got really heavy surrounding the Karen Hugar of it all. I'm trying to think of other franchises where things got I mean, you could argue that Shannon and O.C. got really heavy with the, so sometimes they get so

heavy that it's not enjoyable to watch or, you know, being entertained by that kind of messiness doesn't feel right. It feels icky. Atlanta has an opportunity, I think, to really, except for the Kenya, whatever happens there, as the opportunity. I think to bring us back to what we fell in love with so much with these women. I totally agree. I'm curious how you feel on that sort of spectrum, where you feel like this season of Beverly Hills is landing. Because I know, obviously, the Doreet and Kyle has been a lot, you know, Sutton now is out here with her like, you know, my bank account's bigger than yours. Do you feel like this season of Beverly Hills has kind of cleared the fun bar, or is it sort of

getting bogged down with the storylines that we have to work through? I think it's getting bogged down with the storylines, and I was talking to someone about the timeline of their filming, they need to, and I say this as a person who wants it more and more and more. I think they need to space out the time that they put the cameras down to the time they pick the cameras up.

Because, like, for Beverly Hills, I think they're going to pick it up soon, and we haven't even seen the reunion yet. And I just don't think that there's enough time to create a new storyline. And so we pick up kind of where we left off. And that's how we kind of get in this space of we seem like we're going in circles here. I was here originally for Beverly Hills for the Doreet energy.

I was like, yes, we have a new Doreet. She's not holding back. But I didn't know that that's all we were going to get this season. And it just became, it seemed like, I don't want to say that she was acting. That's not the right word. But it just seemed like she was putting on. for and and it felt it just didn't feel authentic anymore yeah you could see the breakdown in their relationship before but then it just became like she was showing out it was giving middle child and

I say this as one that's what it was yeah yeah like there's a fine line between actually not giving a fuck and coming on the season and saying I'm going to show everyone how much I don't give a fuck and I think that with derreet like I've I've enjoyed a lot of her moments this and I do think seeing her kind of stand up to Kyle felt like it was a long time coming, but that some of the moments have felt a little bit like Doret is performing a certain thing and she wants this arc and she knows kind of how to get it. And I think to be fair, on the reverse end of that, I think that Kyle handled a lot of their interactions really poorly, at least in the first half of the season.

So like now it's nice that we can see them kind of, you know, doing a little. little kiss kiss at Sutton's sustainable fashion show, whatever that is. But like it did feel like for five episodes, Doreet and Kyle were having the same argument week after week. Yes. Yes. It went on too long. And there really isn't, when you remove that, there really isn't much going on. I will give it to Sutton. Sutton is giving us a lot. But as much as I love Garcel, she's not. You know, Bose has been a very interesting addition. And I think her allegiance to Doreet has been interesting as well. And, you know, something must have gone down at the reunion because we all saw Garcell's post. And we know it was about something that happened on that couch, even though

Anna Marie Wiley took it upon herself that it was about her. Oh, girl. It's always something with her. We used to be close. Okay. And, you know, I call it like it is. But yes, we used to be very close. She thought it was about her for some reason. Don't know why. Or I do know why. That's Anna Marie. But yeah, we just need Erica. I'm going to give Erica a break. If I'm breaking down every woman who's on that cast. Erica gave us a lot and she was going through a lot. And I have actually enjoyed watching her find her piece. I don't need anything more from her. The only thing I wonder is how is she able to afford all of this new furniture and this this this renowned interior? I always think about this stuff. Like how are they able to afford that? Can you, I would do a divorce. Can you? I would do a

divorce. Can you come do my house too? If you just need the media attention, please, I will set up a camera and be a friend up for a second. But yeah, I enjoy watching Erica in this space, but I'm only giving her one season. She needs to come back to us. I need to see her dating. I need her to have drama with one of the women. I need something more. Yeah. They got to, I don't know where to go from here. I think that's a healthy way to look at it, that it's like Erica has really, you know, walked through the fire and given us a lot of content over these last few years. This season, she's in her, you know, my, you know, perfect princess palace or whatever. She calls her little, her space.

She wants her pizza party. She's getting it. And then it's like, yeah, like you can have your kind of your chill year. And then let's see what's cooking for next season. I think that more people could kind of benefit from that strategy. But then you start to wonder, like, with Garcel, like, I think I love Garcell. I think that Garcel is a great presence on the show, but it's like that has to be met with some amount of like story. And I do think like I've been, it's great to see her with her beach house.

It's great to see stuff that her kids have going on. But like you do when you have a season where you feel like there's not a lot of layers to it, you start to think about, okay, like we could be getting more from somebody like Garcel. we could be getting more from maybe, you know, Erica next season. And I think with Bose, like you said, I think for her first season, being so strongly with Derreet, I think has been a great kind of move for her. But going into next season, then it's like, okay, so what is Bose's big moment kind of separate from that? Right.

I love that you use the word layers. I think that that's what's key because you're right. Garcel has given us stuff. But let's be honest, all of these things could be a social media post. I could see her house on social media and you could have given me a tour. It's not a whole storyline. Even her going to the beach, them all coming out there and going to the beach, it was about Kyle and Doreet.

It wasn't about, like, remember that episode. There was a moment where it could have been so much bigger when Dorete was saying that her child asked about them being divorced and sudden interrupt her. That is something that should have carried out that in time. entire episode. That's a kind of messy moment where I wish DeRite would have been like, how dare you say that? This is my child. You know, I've been trying to hide it. It really could have been a bigger thing. And it wasn't. What did we focus on that episode? Kyle and DeRite making up on a cold beach. It just, I, there could be more. And I know I'm being, I, I say this

as somebody who would never want the job of, you know, being a part of these production companies, trying to figure it all out, trying to cast new people, trying to create certain situations that are entertaining to the audience. That is a hard and thankless job. I don't want it. But I do, as someone who promotes these shows and consumes them all week, I want more. Yeah. I want better.

Yeah, sort of speaking of that, the last thing I want to bring up is, have you watched the first episode of Denise Richards' thing? I'm not doing that. protect your piece protect your piece I just okay it's so it's 20 minute episodes

it's like a little half hour which I didn't know we were doing on Bravo at this point in the game I just truly like I have not talked to any one single person who is like oh yeah like I would love to see what Denise Richards has going on with her husband and dogs and kids

in 2025 and I with all of the options out there there you could make a list of 100 potential Bravo spin-offs, little one-off shows. How on earth did we settle on Denise Richards and her wild things in 2025? It is so baffling to me. This is the problem with people who are making the decisions. It's almost like they're preaching to the choir and not listening to what people want as a whole. They saw the reaction that Denise got by coming back on Beverly Hills just for those quick moments. They saw her come to the premiere. They saw her be messy, sloppy. They saw her put her

jacket on upside down. And they saw all the attention they got and they said, people still love her. We need to give her a show. I'd honestly rather watch a show on Lisa Rana as like a lot as she was. I'd rather watch. I honestly would have sat down and watched that. But Denise, I think it was great when she came in. I was entertained. I was excited. But that doesn't translate. But that doesn't translate to a whole show. Yeah. You know? It's like there's a big social media person and they're like, oh my gosh, they have all these followers, all this attention.

Let's give them a show. Doesn't translate the same way. It's not the same. Yeah. You know, Denise's show is a little bit giving like the Charlie DeMilio family on Hulu. Like it is a little bit of that vibe where it's like, okay, we're going to Pilates together. Now we're going to have a picnic

and we're going to allude to Charlie Sheen. Like it's just like, okay. I, you know, Yeah, I guess. I'm sure this was inexpensive and quick to shoot. And I hope that it accomplishes something for them. But like, man, I don't know. Doesn't it say at all that it's 30 minutes? I didn't know it was a 30 minute show. But I think that that says at all. I wonder how many episodes they are and they're just trying to test it. I love that they, I love when they try to force things on us because when I went to go watch Beverly Hills, I was like, why is it two hours?

And I was like, they're making sure the DVR gets the Denise show along with the Beverly Hills. They're like, if that's package deal tonight, we got to get that synergy going. And it did. It did. I mean, I didn't continue, but I was like, oh, this is what it was. Because I panicked that I wouldn't have been able, had enough time. I watched it this morning that I wasn't going to have enough time to talk to you about it. I was like, why is Beverly Hills?

And I just assumed the last 30 minutes was watch what happens live. Not realizing they were also throwing in wild things, which I didn't even realize that was the name of her show. Yeah. This gives us an ultimate girl's trip. This is what I want. Do a spinoff from traders, the people on traders and put them all on a show together in a house. Like give me for a weekend. Give me something like that.

Then wild things. A traitor's ultimate girls trip would really hit, I think. I think that would check a lot of boxes for a lot of people. See? And I think it would be a nice segue to bring a new audience into Housewives or into one of these other lifestyle shows because so many people who don't watch Housewives watch Traders. And they're falling in love with these characters. So now you can continue to watch these characters in a new space. And guys, just so you know, this is also similar to this show or this show.

I think it's nice. I agree. Hire me. Everybody listen to Rachel. I could listen to you, talk all day. Tell everybody where they can listen to your podcasts and everything you have going on. Thank you so much. This has been so much fun.

Again, sorry if I'm too wordy. I love, love this stuff so much. If you want to hear me be wordy even more, you can catch me do all things or talk all things, Bravo, except below deck, because as I always say, that does not count. Wherever you listen to podcast, it's morally corrupt, it's under Ringer Reality TV. the show comes out on Tuesdays and Fridays, and we are now video on platform on Spotify. So if you want to watch us, you can watch us there too. And then, of course, I do higher learning, which totally different, but it is about culture

and politics and current affairs. So if you want a little bit of that from like your favorite cousins, come listen to Van and I every Tuesday and Friday as well on higher learning wherever you get your podcast. Amazing. Rachel, thank you so much. Oh, thanks so much for having you. Thank you so much to Rachel and thank you everyone for listening.

Don't forget to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mentioned It All is produced by me, Dylan Hafer, and edited by Kate McCalliffe. Social Media by Dylan Hafer. Additional production help from Shannon Jimenez-Sassau. Be sure to follow

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