Mention It All - Erika’s Empathy Lesson Ft. Kiki Monique (RHOBH Premiere)

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

To celebrate the new season of RHOBH, Dylan is joined by Kiki Monique, host of the new Betches podcast Pop Crime. After a quick debrief on Britney Spears’ memoir, Dylan and Kiki get into Kyle’s WWHL appearance, and her strategy for handling her separation. They recap the premiere episode, and break down Erika’s evolving journey around empathy. Later, they unpack Dorit and PK’s joint statement on their marriage. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Home Depot.com slash price match for details. Betches Media presents. Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, both. Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the Mention It All podcast. I am Dylan Hafer, and today it's a big day on Mention It All and on the Betches podcast network, because we have a brand new show that just launched today, and I am so glad to have the host here with me to talk Beverly Hills and so much more. Please welcome the host of our new podcast. pop crime. Kiki Monique. Hey, Kiki. Hi. Welcome back to the show. This is not your first mention at all rodeo, but I'm so excited we can finally talk about your new show that just launched with two new episodes today. I know. Like, look at us. I'm like Paul Red. Look at us. Here we are.

What is it? Who thought we'd be co-workers? Wow. Well, okay. So tell everyone, just give us like the elevator pitch of pop crime because it's a super fun concept and it plays so well into what you do already on your social media and everything. Yeah, you know, I think people really love true crime. It could be like, it could weigh you down. It could get heavy. And I think with Johnny Depp and Amber Heard when that came along, it was like this new like, okay, there's this pop culture element where we can watch celebrities and like it doesn't feel the same because, you know, their problems are real, but they're also a little bit champagne problems, right? And so getting into the nitty-gritty, of like, what are in these lawsuits, you know, and I'll, I'll go to courthouses and sometimes

sitting in the cases and, you know, what's going on with Tom Girardi and his whole competency hearing and the things that, you know, again, I like to say news you need, but news are also nosy about. It's important, but, you know, we're more just nosy. I feel like it is, it's so true that the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial was such a, such a big moment for one of those stories where everybody, everybody wants to know the details and nobody can look away. But at the same time, it's so hard to actually wrap your mind around and go through all the details of what's happening. And I feel like you on your, on your TikTok and on your Instagram and now on the podcast, that's kind of like, you're like the translator. You like dumb it

down just enough where it's easy to understand all the information, but you're also still getting all of the details that make it so interesting. Yeah, it's like, I'm not a lawyer, but I've been very interested in the law for so long. So I'm always wanting to break it down to like the most layman way as possible because I want to understand it. So I'm like, I get the lawyers to be like, okay, explain it to me and then I can translate it for others. The legal, I feel like the social media era and I mean, just doing a Bravo podcast for the

last few years has changed my perception of the law so much. And there are so many random things that I'm like, wow, why do I know? about the difference between defamation standards of proof in the UK and the US. It's so true. It's so true. So your first two episodes that launched today, I am most excited about you dived into Britney Spears memoir that came out this week. What was that like, I know you listened to the audio book, which some clips have gone around of Michelle Williams reading the book. what was the thing that surprised you the most about this memoir that you wanted to get into? You know, I think that like Brittany really led it all, not even just, you know, I think we thought

we were going to get into the conservatorship and her talking about her dad and like all of that stuff. And she does. But she's also very honest about herself and like why she does the things that she does. You know, obviously since Brittany's been back on social media, you know, people will talk about like, you know, why is she always posting pictures of naked or why does she have this British accent? and she tells us why it is, you know. And so she's very aware of these things that are happening. And she gives her explanation and also just being very vulnerable.

I mean, even when she talked about KFED, right? You know, I don't think we've had a really good impression about him for a while. But when she explained, you know, like what he gave to her at that time, I was like, wow, I've been in that same relationship as Britney Spears. I can relate. I think also it's so interesting because the conservatorship, sort of sucked all the air out of the room when it came to the Britney Spears conversation. And thinking about this book, so much of the really fascinating, juicy stuff about her career happened in that

late 90s, early 2000s, before social media. She was in this, even before the conservatorship, she was this huge pop star who was being managed so carefully. And, you know, really things were happening to her and around her. And she didn't really have that voice. There wasn't, you know, she wasn't on Twitter. She wasn't on Instagram. Like, so I think this book where it really feels like she is able to go into all of those things up to and including the conservatorship, obviously, it's like, oh, yeah, like, there was never really a place where Brittany was telling us everything about her relationship

with Justin Timberlake. Like, we never, other than maybe some, you know, narrow interviews and stuff, we never really got her version of that. Yeah. I mean, people forget, like, social media was not a thing. thing back in like 2002. So it was like you couldn't get it out. And if you really think about it, she spent more time in her conservatorship than she did as

like this independent pop star, which she could have her voice. So it's kind of wild when you think about it that way. It's so funny. The like pre-social media era makes me think of sometimes I talk to housewives who have been around a long time and remember the housewife, the Bravo blog days. And it's like, it feels like such a time capsule to a different. world where it's like, yeah, we wrote our little entries once a week and, you know, sometimes you had help writing them or they got edited or whatever, but then you put out this

thing and that was kind of, that was it. And now the experience of doing reality TV or doing any kind of public career has just shifted so much. And there's just like so much noise coming from all the directions. And it's fascinating to talk to people who have kind of weathered that, that transition and have lived in both sides of it. Yeah. I mean, I just had a meeting the other day with a gentleman who worked at META. He works at Threads now. And he was the one he used to work for Bravo.

And he was the one that was responsible for getting Stasi Schroeder and Sheena on Instagram. Like, you know, and he's like a young guy. It's like, it's wild. Yeah. No, it's, it is crazy to think about there was a time when like, you know, housewives who are the most prolific on social media had to be like taught how to tweet. Yeah. It also is, there's something so special.

If you go through people like Nini Leaks and the Vanderpump Rules cast and some of the Jersey cast, you can go through and all their tweets from like 2010, 2011 are still just hanging out there. And it is so bizarre to read what Twitter was like 12 years ago. It's like, oh my God. Like, Nini had already been on Housewives for three seasons, and it still is just like, me getting lunch with Cam. Exactly. I think about my friend who was like, his first post was like, my finger hurts, you know?

Right. It's just stream of consciousness. There's no kind of like, it wasn't content that these people were creating. It truly was just like, I'm a tweet. I kind of miss it. I miss those days. Which kind of brings us, I feel like it's a good segue into Beverly Hills because obviously the premiere episode is its own thing. But then happening around that, we have these sort of matching narratives for Kyle and Mauricio and for Doreate and P.K. where there are statements happening and rumors being spread and, you know, addressing the rumors and not addressing other rumors. And it is kind of fascinating. I think since the and Maricio separation news broke this summer to see kind of the, the waves of how they've

handled that. But at the same time, watching Kyle and Watch What Happens Live last night, every piece of information that she is choosing to share or not share is, like, managed within an inch of its life. And it's like, if you're not together, just, just let it be. I was actually so proud of Kyle last night. I mean, she really, it made me think that her and Andy probably sat backstage and really had this long conversation. And, you know, she was just like, you know what? I just have to be transparent.

Plus, when it came to, because people were obviously speculating like, why did she delete that post of, you know, supporting Maricio and dancing with the stars? And when she fully admitted, it was because she was pissed because she saw that picture of him holding hands with his partner and it made her sad. I think that did have a shift in her. I think she's probably been pretty protective of him. And I think that she did not feel protected in that moment. Because even Teddy started coming in like, you know, you know cameras are, you're in Beverly Hills.

You know cameras are following you, you know. And I think she felt not protected by him. Like, fine. I understand we're going to like do our things. But like that. And also when you've been with someone for that long, you know their little mannerisms, right? And there was probably something in that picture. I don't know.

the way he held her hand or just the, where she knew that it was more. And it, like, it probably, like, got a lump in her throat. Yeah, the way she said, when Andy was kind of asking, and it was clear that Kyle doesn't, doesn't have any information here. This hasn't been a conversation she's had with Mauricio. He, he didn't give her a heads up that maybe things are starting to get cozy with Emma Slater. It was very much, you could tell that Kyle had seen the same photos that we all did and was you know, evaluating them the only way she knows how and seeing her say, well, you know, if you're

holding hands with somebody like that, I don't know, I don't know what has happened, but clearly something is happening. And, you know, if this had been a conversation where it was like, yes, well, you know, they're spending a lot of time together and I'm sure they're getting close and I wish them the best and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It would have felt like a more like, okay, this is the narrative where you could tell in that moment that Kyle was had, you know, felt some type of way about it. Teddy clearly is a little pissed off at Mauricio. And I'll just say, I know that you probably know this too. The parking lot outside of the Dancing with the Stars facilities is like the most exposed place in the world. Like if you want something to be caught on camera, that's where to do it.

I've never been to the parking lot, but based on the, yeah, just the pat photos you see. You're like, Oh, this is just like an open air lot next to the studio. Like those 30 seconds walking from rehearsal to the car, it's like somebody's going to see you. So if there is something that you either don't want or really do want out there, that is the place to do or not do it. So good, so good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince, Sam Edelman, Frame and Free People. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more.

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So that's the thing. I think, like, obviously this Dancing with the Stars thing is its own animal, but it does feel like it's not an accident that we're seeing them together. And I think that's really interesting because, you know, going into the premiere

of this season, I think we were all kind of wondering how much we were going to see and how soon we would start to see it. And really from this premiere episode, it's clear that this is on the show, really they're talking about it openly. And it's going to be, I think, a really fascinating season to see sort of the ebbs and flows of that, knowing that now they clearly have not figured it out between them. Yeah, you know, I went into the season kind of skeptical. And I think it was because I assumed that they were going to hold back because I feel like that's just been par for the course.

And again, I love that everyone's getting the memo. Like, we don't buy it anymore. Like, be transparent or we're going to dig into it for you. So. Yeah. And I was more surprised, I guess, by the Doreet and P. storyline that we're seeing already because Doreet going into that

healing something session with Eagle Woman and Blue Violet or whatever and immediately coming for Erica based on her response to a question last year at BravoCon saying that she thought Doreet and P.K. We're headed for Splitsville next. That was something where I was in the room when that happened

and I barely remembered that it happened. So all of a sudden when Doreet, it's like, Erica, I was very hurt. I was like, oh, we're rolling it back to that moment. And that's going to be kind of like the catalyst for this relationship. I was not expecting that. And I was kind of impressed the way that Doreet, like, played that card. I was just like surprised that she was still so triggered by it. Now, hearing, obviously, they have been having issues.

There's a reason. but if I kind of knew that I was having issues with my relationship, if I would have done the opposite of Derita, I would just let it go because I wouldn't have tried to make it a big deal. Right. It felt like she in a weird way was kind of signaling like, hey, my relationship is going to be a topic, but I want it to be like,

I'm going to be the one explaining how it's been a tough year. I don't want Erica to be the one like spotting the smoke signal. And the back and forth. of Erica being like, I didn't want to answer that question. But when I did have to answer that question, baby, I'm a showman. So I delivered that answer. And the Dorit in the confessional, that's not a showman. That's a bitch.

Yeah. Derreet was like cracking me up. She was like, oh, you just flip your head and you're saying your thing. She walked down to the bottom of that stage and she delivered that answer like she felt it with her whole, like, it's so analyzing, like, the body language of Erica answering this question on stage at Watch What Happens Live at BravoCon, which is the most, like, heightened, bizarre, like, over-the-top atmosphere you could possibly be in. It just is, like, that, to me, that's what I like to see on Housewives is, like, picking apart something that is just

completely exists outside of time and space. Totally. It's like I want that like just a notch below like you're giving dynasty. Like, you know, like they can't help themselves. It's like I don't want it to be too dynasty. I want it just below. Perfect. I think Beverly Hills, for all of the flack that this franchise can get for being, you know, boring sometimes or not kind of real enough with how these women show their lives on the show, I feel like that type of energy is. kind of, they do it better than anybody else. And people like Erica and Derreet and I think Sutton to a degree, like they know how to kind of bring that air that just feels like, oh, these women, I don't have anything in common with them, but that's kind of fun in a way. No, totally. I mean, I think that they know how to, you have to, you do have to know how to be a performer at the end of the day. You just don't have to be obvious about it. And, and they're pretty good at that. I think it's interesting, too. I watched the Real Housewives of Miami premiere,

which is next week. But there's kind of this matching storyline happening with Sutton and her divorce money situation and feeling like she built something with her husband. And so, you know, he didn't have whatever when he met her. And I know that Lisa really feels the same way about her and Lenny. She's contesting her pre-up. She feels like, you know, they built this together. And I think that's an interesting, it's such an interesting idea because obviously there's a whole legal component to it of the, you know, your pre-up or your marriage, whatever is what it is. But to see these women kind of navigate this time in their life, obviously Sutton is a little bit further removed from the divorce itself. But it's, it is like, I love seeing people kind of

rediscover themselves or like rise from the ashes a little bit. And it feels like Sutton is is really committed to that in a way that I enjoy. I do. I wish that, you know, the fact, though, that she's still focused for some reason on proving to her ex, though, that part. It's like, I want her to remove that from her story because I want her to prove it to herself because I think you do, like, as a woman who obviously she said, they came in on equal footing to this marriage and then she gets pregnant, has to like, you know, give up her job

and her career. And you do forget or think that maybe you can't do. it anymore. And so I just wanted to prove it to herself. He'll see it regardless. Or maybe he won't because, you know, that's the thing about dudes. They sometimes won't even pay attention. And so you're doing all of this to show him. Um, so if she removes that from it, you know, obviously she's doing very well. Yeah. It, it, there is kind of like the money and the perceived success are sort of two separate things because I don't know how much money the Sutton concept is really bringing in, you know, I wish her the best.

I don't know that, like, Beverly Hills Boutique is, like, really going to send you into the stratosphere in terms of not needing your spousal support. But, like, you, on paper, she got cast on this TV show that she's now starred on for three or four seasons. She is, you know, hanging out with rich and famous people all the time. Like, she's living her own life regardless of whether or not she still kind of relies on the money. Oh yeah, she's living the exact life I want where you know that, you know, she's having her friend, Jennifer Tilly comes in for lunch. They're having, you know, lunch on these really expensive plates. It was probably a negative $6,000 day. Like she netted. She definitely lost money having lunch that day and made no sales. But you know what? She's having a great time. I was like, I want to be at this lunch eating with her and Jennifer in the middle of Beverly Hills boutique. She's like, I'm not going to lease a horse. I'm going to buy a horse. Who do you think I am? and put it on an Amex. She put a horse from the Netherlands on an Amex. I mean, goals?

The Jennifer Tilly piece is so fun because you can tell that, like, for all of Jennifer Tilly's housewives appearances, you can tell that she has no desire to actually really get, like, live in this sandbox, but she loves to come and play. Oh, yeah. I love it. And I just, I love everything about Jennifer Tilly. I want more, more, more. I see like I never was into the like Chucky like Child's Play universe so I feel like I have not very much frame of reference for Jennifer Tilly other than being Sutton's friend and then I hear the way people talk about her and I'm like oh cool like yeah iconic she's absolutely like iconic like I hear I will hear her voice till the end of time um okay I want to talk about Erica's session with her therapist

on this premiere. I know that you are steeped in the world of Tom Girardi and you're probably, you might be the foremost expert on everything that's happening with the legal side of things, but I thought it was so fascinating to see Erica in this place where she feels like she really has been able to move past the kind of the mess surrounding Tom, but she is still struggling so much with empathy as a concept. Like, watching her, she's been in therapy with this woman, she says, for two years. And she's asking her how she can try to empathize with other people that have been in her life for years. It's like, it really caught me by surprise watching her kind of so openly not know how to

navigate these emotions. Yeah. I mean, I would be so interested if they've like delved into her childhood because I can't figure out if the Ice Princess thing is something that is like she has put on because of everything that's happening or if it's like something that like stems from her childhood because it is very like cut off. Yeah. Like sometimes when you see therapy on Bravo shows, a lot of the time it's like, okay, it's my first therapy session. Like let's cry for five minutes and then maybe we'll never. talk again, but we got the scene. Whereas this is kind of the opposite, where it's like, okay, Erica's been in therapy for a couple years. They're finally like having this conversation on camera, but it's kind of giving first therapy session in a way. And so I do like, I kind of want to give the benefit of the doubt where I'm like, maybe this just feels a little stilted because

it's on camera. But like the conversation they're having doesn't really give you know, two years of hard work has gotten us to this place. I got to say. Hard to me felt like, you know, it was more just a setup for like she needed to essentially get off that she's feeling good about the fact that she hasn't been indicted. But like, that's not going to control what other people think. And also Tom is going to die one day. And that's like something that she, you know, like the fact that his death came up was

kind of weird to me too. And it was just like, okay, he is going to die one day. I think that she's very good at compartmentalizing, which I do actually understand. Because when you are in such like the depths, like she's in like the trenches right now, I do understand having to compartmentalize. Otherwise, you won't get anything accomplished. And she's clearly getting things accomplished. Obviously, like I was, you know, if you were looking at flashbacks even to her first therapy session,

I mean, look at her face. Look at her demeanor. Look at her body. Like all of those things. And look how she looks now. Like she's obviously taking better care of herself. And so she's been able to move forward in certain ways. And she's probably been able to do that through compartmentalization.

But I hope that she. And hormones. Exactly. I do. I do have to like thinking about her position in the group over the last few seasons, there was a time when it really seemed like. half of the women on this show weren't really ever going to fuck with her. And she really was the villain for all intents and purposes a couple seasons ago. And I think it is, obviously,

this has a lot to do with, you know, people just sort of giving up and moving on. And also, you know, she wasn't in the indictment. She's been sort of like left out of certain things that would have been more incriminating. But she has to be feeling good. about the fact that her storyline on the show anymore isn't like this evil lady stole so much money. Like she has her own issues now, but it's not like, oh, I'm going to dig into your legal problems. Yeah, I also think she's in an interesting position too because I do think that like as the villain, she was also still very much the cool girl.

I think she's now sort of gotten relegated kicked down where she's not like the number one cool girl anymore, which I think isn't an odd place for her to be because I think that just in her life, that's where she's been. So I think she's gotten humbled, but it's hard. It's hard for her to be humbled. So she's like, I think that's what she's struggling with because she's like, I understand that I'm not in this position, but I don't know how to play my position. So she really has to reintroduce herself in a new way.

And I don't think she's comfortable with it. And that's why I think it can come off in these weird, in these weird. ways where she just seems a little icy because I just don't think she knows how to present herself. Yeah, seeing her show up to the first retreat scene and she explains that her friend is no longer on the show, Lisa Rina not to be named. And it does, she sort of presents it as that she's coming back into the group on her own sort of tail between her legs a little bit. And that is going back to Erica joining the show the first couple seasons, she was like,

the rich bitch who dressed hot and did music and, you know, if she was a little bit icy, it was because she was like a level above and a little bit aloof and kind of didn't need to come down to the level of everybody else. Whereas now it really is kind of the opposite position. And it's not like she has, you know, no friends or anything on the show and she's totally in a corner by herself. But the energy is definitely has shifted a little bit. And I think, you know, Garcell and Sutton solidifying themselves so much in the cast. And, you know, you know, Doreet and Kyle kind of establishing themselves as a little bit of a duo. Like, the balance is definitely different than it used to be when Erica kind of ascended the ranks.

Yeah, I mean, remember when, you know, Eileen said that thing about, I don't know if it was about cops or her son and, you know, she came for Eileen and was so mean. I think now it's like when, you know, Sutton throws little digs here and there, she's going to have to take it on the chin in ways that she never had to. She can't be that person she used to be. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. I actually am, I'm not like an Erica Stan, but I'm really interested to see sort of like

what her trajectory is like this season. I'm sure we'll get stuff about her Vegas show and all of that, but more on a personal level. I'm like, what's the vibe going to be after these first couple episodes? Totally. Study and play. Come together on a Windows. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds.

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with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Try them all now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine. Copyright 2026, the Coca-Cola Company. Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company. There's not really big drama within the group that I know to look forward to this season.

But I do feel like the dynamics are, I don't know, interesting in a way where it's like, I don't really know what Crystal has going on in terms of like who she's feeling the most and who she's having issues with. And even like Garcel, her kind of her stuff on the premiere was more about her sons, which I think is really interesting. But I'm still sort of waiting to see how the group is going to be, with each other this year. Yeah, they're kind of like, you know, I can see that obviously Garcel's kind of going in the

direction of like her feeling like she wasn't, you know, the mom, maybe she needed to be. Crystal is just so far removed because she's so much younger than the rest of the cast. And she's in just a different place, I think, in her marriage, right? Like maybe give her 15 years. Maybe she'll be where Kyle and Maricio are, right? You know, like I think that she's just in a different. stage and so has much younger kids. And so it'll be also, yeah, interesting to see how, if she's just there as like, you know, a friend that can lean on, you know, someone to give

advice. I don't know. Yeah. I think Crystal is one of those people where I like her a lot. And I think she's had good moments in her time on the show. But it does feel like now that she's been in the group for a few years and really is in theory an established member of the cast, it feels like there should be sort of a clear something happening with her within the group. I don't even think she had any lines this episode. Like, I think that the only thing she said was, hmm, like, literally. Yeah, there was like a brief, you know, she and her husband were talking about the indictment where he was like, you know, she might not have stolen the money, but she still spent it.

And it's like, yes, Rob Minkoff. Like, why did Rob Minkoff have more, you know, of a. some shade than like the housewife. I know. But then also we have Anne Marie joining the cast later this season. I think from what I've heard, she's going to be more of like a midway addition. Okay. Through the season. So it's like it does feel like there's, there are some sort of question marks that maybe

aren't going to be really put together until a little bit later. So I don't know. I really just, I'm hoping that we have just a little bit of consistent momentum and that it doesn't feel like one of those seasons where we're rating 13 episodes for things to really kick into gear. Yeah. I was also trying to figure out what does Anne Marie do? Is she like an anesthesiologist? Because her tagline, they can't have the taglines come out and it was like something like put you to sleep. I think so. I heard that too. Does she work in a morgue? Anne Marie Wiley. She is a registered nurse. Oh, okay, okay. But her husband is a former NFL player.

Okay, got it. Yeah, I, you know, like, I'm curious. But at the same time, it's like, if she's not showing up for, you know, seven episodes, then I kind of am like, okay, well, we'll see about that later. Exactly. Like, I'm not, like, I need you to, like, step in, like, a lot sooner. So, yeah, whenever she comes in, will be interesting for sure. Yeah. I, um, I do the, the, the Doreet and P.K thing was really fascinating to me.

And I wanted to read a little bit. So earlier this week, there had been. some rumors about Doreet and Peké sort of making their way around the internet. I think there was a post on Dumaire saying that they had been separated for months and PK was living in a hotel. And so last night, premiere night, of course, Dorete and Peket released a joint statement to People magazine. And they said, we remain committed to working through these issues as a united couple for

our family. We have not separated, nor are we planning to do so. rather we are focused on healing, making changes, and doing the things that many couples have to do at some point in their marriage. We would be grateful for everyone's understanding. We are doing what we can to focus on the best interests of our family, as opposed to spending our time contending with rumors and hearsay that are not true. So, you know, they're combating the rumors and the nastiness head on. What is your read on this whole situation? And when you hear that statement, you know, delivered like that to a publication, the night of the premiere. Where is your bullshit meter with that statement?

A hundred percent. I mean, I think that we got a similar statement from Monique Samuels, if I'm not mistaken at one point. And then, you know, it was like a whole 180. Like, because also it's not, it wasn't like, I think, I don't know if the rumors said divorce or separate. I do believe, obviously, as we've seen in the first episode,

he's been in London a lot. You know, I think he was shooting a show or something. like that, he spent a lot of time. Now, whether there was any truth to Sutton's rumor about, you know, a woman being in the car the night of his DUI, I mean, according to Teddy on Watch What Happens Live, the TMZ did not see anyone on the police report. So, so who knows? But obviously they're having issues.

And I know that when you have young children, it's like, I think that the first thing to do is say no. I do. I think, you know, because you can also, when you're, you're, you know, when you're So financially intertwined as well, sometimes you don't go down that path right away. Especially because, again, we hear other rumors about the finances of them in general. I just think it sets off too many red flags maybe to people on the peripheral and you just want to keep everyone calm.

Like maybe they have loans out and will those loans get starting pull if they're getting who knows? Because right now it feels like Dereet may be the breadwinner. don't know, right? But it feels like she's been on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. She has a lot going on. Is she the breadwinner right now? I don't know. And I just think it's too complicated to like just make it. You have to just like have a united front in the beginning until you figure it out. I think that's a good point that this statement might be bullshit. But that also doesn't mean that they are like, that they totally hate each other and they're on horrible

terms and PK is living in a hotel. Like, we've seen so many, even just this year, so many versions of what a breakup or a divorce or a separation can look like. And especially when you think about them, like, it is such a business decision in addition to the like, you know, romantic family, whatever side of, you know, what's happening in a marriage. And I don't necessarily think of Doret as the kind of person. If she and P.K. were to, you know, part ways, let's say, I don't necessarily think of them as the kind of couple who would have a messy divorce and who would be, you know, Lenny and Lisa moving the mistress into the house and whatever. I, honestly, I feel like Doret and Pekh are pretty calculated. And I don't, that's, that to me is not a negative thing. I think it's just kind of how

you operate. And so I could totally. see there being this kind of, you know, strategy in place and, you know, rumors on Dumois may or may not be a part of that plan that you were hoping to avoid. But I don't think that it's kind of totally one way or the other where it's like either they're, you know, together and this is a fake rumor or they're split up and they're just like lying to us all. Like I think maybe there are things kind of in the works that they just aren't ready to. share yet? I mean, Kyle and Maricio are still living in the house together. Tom and Ariana are still living in the house together. Like, there are so many different kind of ways to handle this. And like you said,

maybe they owe some people some money and they can't be out here, you know, airing their business before things are, you know, tended to. At the end of the day, a marriage is a business arrangement, like just on paper alone. Like you might love each other too. But it is a business arrangement. And yeah, you can't just be making rash decisions that will affect your livelihood, you know, your finances, any of that. Yeah, I just hope at the end of the day, whatever's best for Phoenix and Jaggy. I hope that that's what needs to happen. Where is George Michael going to go?

Doesn't he like live in the pool house? No, I love your point about maybe at this point, Doreet, is the breadwinner because that has always been kind of with P.K., it's like he theoretically has this. successful career and does real estate and music management and something else maybe, but mostly in London or maybe in the U.S., but also is all of that from 20 years ago and we're kind of just going with it. Like, the money with them has always been kind of an open question. And it's like, I really don't even, I don't even know where to begin.

You don't. And it's like, it's really, in L.A., it's really easy to look and be like, how are. are you doing, how are you making this money, especially when it's like, I don't know anything about what you do. And some of it is smoke and mirrors, which, again, which is why I talked about, you know, the best way to see if someone really, really has money is now I just look at their pets, especially if they have white dogs because the grooming on that, if it is like perfection, you know that's money because to upkeep a white dog especially is very expensive.

That's not just like, you know, on credit or, you know, renting or anything. Right. It's like, you can borrow a fendi bag. You can't borrow a pristine white dog. Yeah. That's why I know Angie K. on Salt Lake City has money because I'm sorry, that hot pink dew on that white dog is very, very well taken care of.

Oh, my God. Angie's, Angie's poor dog. It just makes me, my heart sinks a little bit whenever I see that damn spray-dyed poodle. It's just like wellness check on Angie Kay's dog. Not because, you know, I'm sure the dog is fine, but like, I just can't do the pink. Oh, my God. That's a good tip, though. Everybody, if you're wondering which housewives have really got it like that, look at the pets.

Yeah. Well, Kiki, I am so glad you were able to stop by today to talk all things, Beverly Hills. And of course, all things, pop crime. Tell the people what episodes are out right now and where they can go find it. The episodes out right now, we have the Sophie and Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas divorce with Dumas. We also got some tips on like maybe some divorces coming down. And we also have the Britney Spears recap with Danny Murphy. And we share our thoughts on we both, you know, devoured the book as soon as it downloaded at midnight.

And you can find pop crime by Betches on. you know, Spotify, Apple. And you can also follow me at The Talk of Shame. Amazing. Kiki, thank you so much. I can't wait to listen to all of your great episodes that you have coming up. And maybe we'll get some boots on the background, pop crime business at BravoCon. Yes. Amazing. And thank you everyone for listening. Don't forget to rate review and follow the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mention It All is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousmacat.

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