Mention It All - Friend Of A Friend Of A Friend Ft. Jared Alexander (RHOP)

Episode Date: January 9, 2023

Fresh off a weekend full of Bravo tea, Dylan sits down with entertainment writer Jared Alexander to break it all down. They work through their feelings on Rinna’s departure and Jen Shah’s sentencing, and respond to the suggestion that Potomac is in its flop era. Sticking with Potomac, they recap the first part of the trip to Mexico, and try to get to the bottom of Karen’s issue with Charrisse. Later, they chat about the upcoming seasons of RHONJ and RHOC, and the path forward for RHOSLC. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Home Depot.com slash price match for details. Betches Media presents. Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, boo. Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I'm Dylan Hafer, and today I am so excited to have in the studio, one of my favorite returning guests. He is a good friend of mine, a bravo-hoolic, of course, and an entertainment writer at the Gereo. Please welcome Jared Alexander. Hi, Dylan. How are you?

I'm great. How are you? I'm good. I'm happy to find a friend. finally be here. I know. I was, when I asked you to come on, I was like, wait, I don't think we've ever done an in-person episode. Obviously, you and I have hung out in-person many a time at many an event. We've rubbed shoulders with many of Bravo Liberty. But we've never sat down for an in-person on-mic chat. Yes, it's nice. This feels much, I mean, we're all sick of Zoom. So this is nicer.

Absolutely. And like you were saying before, we started recording, obviously, we have Potomac to talk about because it's a Monday and I love that. But there's a lot going on in general. There's so much. I can't remember the last time we've had like a week like this with Bravo News, but it was just so much. Well, part of me was like, so on Thursday evening, Lisa Rina's departure from Beverly Hills was announced. And a part of me was like, ooh, maybe tomorrow we'll get more Beverly Hills casting news or a Vanderpump Rules trailer, like it should be kind of imminent. But then I'm like, no, I don't want more Bravo news on Friday because I'm already going

to be waking up to refresh Twitter 100 times for Jen Shaw updates. So I was like, I don't even have bandwidth for more Bravo news right now. I mean, it was 24 hours for the ages. It was intense. I felt like dizzy. It's all a lot. And what's weird is that Beverly Hills and Salt Lake City are so separate like in our brains a little bit.

You know what I mean? But I feel like they both felt kind of seismic. But we felt Jen Shaw coming and maybe run a lot. coming too, but I felt like the announcement, the timing of it did throw everyone for a loop. I felt like with Rina, it's not like I didn't think there was any chance she would leave before this next season, but it didn't feel like a sure thing because there had been, you know, their season finished airing a couple months ago. We knew that they were kind of taking a little breath before filming in the new year, but there wasn't really any concrete idea of what's happening

with the cast. So for this to be the first big announcement about next season of Beverly Hills, it's like, okay, the wheels are in motion. And this, I assume, means it's contract season. And usually what that means is that in the next week or two, we'll have kind of a more solid picture of who's coming back. Yeah. And we've talked about this, but like I definitely have conflicting feelings about it, only because they took such a long time after, you know, we've even watched the reunion. So I feel like people started to wrap their mind. around some sort of idea like maybe they're waiting for the fires to die down because they do want to bring Renna back or whatever.

But one of my first initial thoughts when Renna announced it was like, I don't know how interested I am in this cast at present without her there. Not just in the way the dynamics are set up. Like I think lover or hate her, like she was kind of the only source of tension at all in that group, you know? So I think it's going to be interesting to see who does stay and leave. I felt like if Renna did stay, we would only see like, I mean, Diana's out. Can we say that?

Like, I feel like that feels like that's going to happen. I mean, that seems like the most foregone of conclusions. Yeah. And I think ultimately, too, like, she definitely, you know, lost the plot there at the end. And I think all of us were like really exhausted by her. But I think it was nice to see. It just does feel like the end of an era in a certain way. Like, it feels like there was definitely housewives in general before Renna and after.

So it's going to be interesting to see where we go with this group. It doesn't feel like, as much as LVP was a big part of it. And I also remember before season 10 being like, what is Beverly Hills going to look like without her? They only really did. They just brought in Garcel and Sutton. To me, it feels like there needs to be a major reworking of the group in a way. Yeah, I think the last couple of years,

there has been a lot of negative response to the Fox Force 5ness of the cast and how that's kind of stifling some of the potential for other friendships, for other, you know, for rivalries, for just kind of new territory in the show. But on the flip side of that, I think it's good that there is going to be, you know, some breakage in the group. But then you have to have something else. You have to have another factor coming in to take the spot of that. And so it is kind of thinking about this cast without Rina, most likely without Diana. question marks on some other people's heads still, I think. Yeah.

It's like, okay, so if the plot isn't going to be Rina being a terrible friend, like it has been for the last couple seasons, we still need a plot. Like, hopefully it's something fresh and new and exciting, but there has to be something there. And I think it's okay that we don't know what it is yet, but I hope somebody else knows what it is and is putting that in motion. And I'm not really interested either. Again, in my mind, if the group were to stay the same and they only brought in one or two

people, it would just be like Erica's an awful person and everyone's mad at Erica again. And I'm just kind of not interested in that. It would be the third season of that, you know? Yeah, I think Erica is definitely in the most uncertain position now, even if she comes back, because Rina was the one that was so ride or die for her these last couple of years. And, you know, she's friends with Kyle. She's friends with Doree. She's not really enemies with anyone at this point. Yeah.

She's that, you know, the most kind of up and down with Sutton. But what is her place? What is her role? She's been on the show now for like six seasons or so. It's not, it does feel like we're at kind of a watershed moment maybe. Evolution's got some thinking to do. Whenever these situations happen and like these major housewives leave, my first initial thought is like, I am so happy I'm not making these decisions.

Just because it's, you know, it's one giant puzzle. And it's really hard to make it work. It is funny that evolution. is the production company that does Beverly Hills, Orange County, Vanderpump Rules. And so we see right now we're kind of like question marks up in the air with Beverly Hills. Meanwhile, Orange County, it looks like it's Trace Amigos, full steam ahead. We keep seeing these photos of the three of them. And I'm like, okay, Vicki's not on the cast this season.

We know that she's been around a little bit. But on social media the last week or two, they've been very into the Tracea. Amiga's posts and it's like okay I guess. Very much. Is that really what we're getting this season? I feel like it's a little bit of a false tease in terms of Vicki's presence. I think so too because we obviously know it's going to be great to have Tamara there and certainly there's so much history with that group.

And we've talked about this. Like the O.C. panel was like one of the high, like the surprise delights of Robicon. But yeah, Vicky isn't there the whole time. Like they are kind of leaning into this like Trace Amigas again. I'm glad they're, I mean, good for them that they're getting along. But like, I don't really think Vicky is going to be on the season for more than a handful of episodes. No, and I like Vicky in the capacity that she's in. Listen, again, like, she rocked BravoConn, I think.

I think, you know, if these, like, rumors are true that, like, they're going to do X-wives club and, like, bring the same women back that we've been kind of seeing on Instagram. Like, it'd be cool to see Vicky again, just because, like, I think that capacity for her is kind of perfect. Like, I don't think we need her holding an orange, per se. But she's around. Yeah. What do you think about this? So reportedly rumored has it. Girls Trip season four.

So we have season three that's already been filmed in Thailand. Let's get an update soon at Peacock TV, please. Please. But rumor has it that season four is going to be in Morocco. And it's going to be an ex-wives club part two featuring some of the same cast members from season two in the Berkshires. rumor has it that brandy is going to be back Fadra, Eva, but there are going to be some more women

added to the mix. Do you like this kind of serisification of girls' trip? So I think my initial reaction was the same as everyone else. Like really, we have so many other ex-wives. Why would we bring back these other ones? But then in the flip side, it almost reminds me, because I always do this a lot of times, just like compare like the house size franchise to drag race per se.

And like, we have so much talent that like we should. should see come back again. Like, I'm someone who's like, if Brandy is there, you know something's going to happen. I think Ava and Fadra, we all, they were like really the MVP's of Ultimate Girl's Trip, too. And I frankly, and it's funny because we're doing an Atlanta rewatch right now in preparation for the new season that we'll hopefully get soon. But I'm excited to maybe see Fager with a different group and maybe they'll push her a little bit or just actually ask her some of like the elephant in the room questions that she avoided.

But yeah, ultimately I think it's fun. And I think these are housewives who deliver that, like, we all really liked. And I am obviously, Tamara's not an ex-housewife anymore. Who knows what's going to happen with legacy in terms of Durinda? So, like, it kind of makes sense that, like, the names that were on those reports, you know? Right. And I think with people like Fadra and Brandy more than anyone else, this is a potential way for us to get more of what they do best without the kind of baggage of them coming back to their original franchises. Because for all of the love that Fager got from Girls Trip, there still is a lot of, there's just a lot of baggage about a potential return for her to Atlanta.

And I don't think that I don't think that the Atlanta cast would be super on board with it for the most part. I don't think the powers that be at Bravo necessarily want to go back to that place. I mean, I think Candy is top tier talent for Bravo that they have, you know, that they have. you know, that they have an interest in keeping her happy, whether or not that's really deciding casting stuff, who knows. But, you know, all of those factors come into play. And also, rumor has it, Alex McCord. Oh, my gosh. Could be on the cast. Sending Alex McCord back to Morocco, the scene of the crime. That is like, I think, like, the, what's so amazing about this era with these shows, like, that is like such a dream. And it could go in so many different ways. But, like,

the fact that if this is true, that like they even got her to do it is pretty wild to me. Right. Like Alex McCord could leave her happy life in Australia for 10 days. Right. And come film a show in Morocco. Like, why not? Exactly. The one, I mean, there are obviously so many other ex-wives who I'd want to fill this, but like I say this every single time. The one who I want to see, let's get her out of Nevada. Like, let's get Jacqueline Lareda somewhere. Please. I just need to see her. I did see at least one post. It's hard to keep track of what is like, reportedly true and what is just people talking. But I have seen some jersey names, including Jacqueline,

floating around for this potential ex-wives club too. So it could happen. And I also think... Send Dina and Caroline. Oh, my God. Can you imagine? Just don't tell them the other one is coming. We would need... Remember when they had that, like, therapist to do that retreat?

Like, we would need, like, someone to, like, really moderate whatever's going on with them. But I do think, too, I think people give season one of Ultimate Girl'ship a lot of Flack. But one thing I did like about it that I hope we kind of get with this group, whatever it's going to be, is that like they really got into like the minutia and like what it's like to film and like how things affected them in a way that like ultimate girlship two was very much about like what was happening there and like their relationships with each other. But because they were all kind of strangers in a sense in the first one, like we, you know,

heard Kyle talk about filming with the Erica stuff. Like we heard Teresa and Melissa for like the millionth time, but still like break down exactly how it worked with filming and how that affected their relationship. And I like hearing stuff like that because the no fourth wall thing is really fun. Well, thinking back also, like, Luann kind of getting real about how frustrating it is

to have to always apologize for Ramona's shit and put up with that. And even Kenya feeling like she was getting a fresh start compared to how the women on Atlanta sometimes have treated her like a villain kind of from the word go. Right. Those types of dynamics are really interesting and the possibilities are endless.

We'll see. I'm ready. Let's talk about Potomac. Yay. Speaking of a trip. Oh my God. We're headed to Mexico, baby. We really are.

I did. Okay. There was one moment. I don't know if you caught this on last night's episode. Thankfully, we didn't get too much packing footage. Like, I don't need a whole episode of people like getting ready for the trip. But there was. Karen did hold up one piece of clothing and say like, I wonder if I could wear this in the

islands and it's like you're not going to the no I was like do you know where you're going like it probably all blends together he's like production has told me I'm going somewhere where I will need a swimsuit she was like this will be good for dinner dinner in the islands I love that Ashley and Kern are hosting the trip to Mexico yes we needed we need a little bit of glamour after the Miami trip we really do after the last season too where did we go last year then we go to like Mary where did we go where did we go last like that house you know what I'm talking about yeah

we were by the water but it looked so bleak and gray right it's like oh we're going to the chesapeake bay but it's yeah February because I think the last big trip was the Portugal one in season five yeah that was filmed before the pandemic but we saw it after mm-hmm because yeah it all blends together because that season also we went to Monique's like right Lakehouse that wasn't

it's like barely my lake Right. Yeah, no, Potomac deserves something international, something a little spicy. Yes. Yes. I'm curious to get your thoughts overall on this season before we got too far into this episode. I was on The Daily Beast yesterday because our mutual friend, Sarah Galley, wrote an article about the Gentencing and she was there in person.

So that was interesting. But I saw another article on The Daily Beast that was an explainer of why Potomac is in its flop era. And I, no shade to this article because everybody's entitled to their opinions. But it caught me by surprise because I feel like maybe there are different definitions. You can have your own interpretation. But for me, for Potomac, do I feel like this is the best season they've ever had? No. Right.

But I feel like throwing around a term like flop era implies that they're, is some major failing of this season. And I personally feel like every episode I'm still entertained. Yes. Every episode, there's some interpersonal dynamic that's happening that's really interesting. There's something funny going on. There's beneath the surface dynamics that I want to learn more about. And this season to me, it doesn't feel like it's really a letdown in any way.

So I'm curious how you feel about that idea. I feel this. It's really hard. I think we all have to like, everything's relative, right? And like we have to really zoom out a little bit when we use terms like flop bearer and stuff. Because again, like you can't even say that like this compared to like a season 15 of OC. It's like night and day or like the last season of Roney, let's say.

Like I think with these Potomac women, like you said, like I could watch Ashley House Hunting for 45 minutes. I could watch Karen and Ray. I could watch honestly, Jaze with her girls. Like I feel like to say flop air is really intense. I don't think it's the best season they've ever had in terms of I think there's like a lot of balls in the air and there's not like one really cohesive storyline. But then at the same time, then it feels a little less like heavy handed on it. Like I know people are giving the group a lot of flack. They're like, oh, every year we're going after a husband.

And like, yes, Chris is a part of it. But I feel like, I don't know. Even like at the airport and stuff like just I looking at this in some moments seem pretty fine. Like it's not like an entire season. of this whole, like I think we've had other seasons of Potomac where one storyline has taken all the air out, way more than this. And the trips are still fun. I don't know.

I'm, maybe we're in the minority, but. Yeah, the Chris and Candice thing, to me, it feels like the points of the argument that are coming from like Ashley and Jazeel and to a lesser extent other people in the group, it feels like a weak argument. But at the same time, it's not the only thing that's happening. all season. It's a through line that has come up numerous times, but it doesn't feel like every time the group is together, it's going to be a sit down and we're going to talk about Chris being handsy or, you know, making eyes or making comments. You know, like there are other things going on.

And even just last night, the Mia and Jacqueline dynamic, it's so bizarre in a way that I kind of like can't stop thinking about. And it's like, do I give a shit? about Jacqueline, not particularly. Do I even give a shit about Mia? Only a little bit more than Jacqueline. Right. But I still am like, what is the deal with these women? We're talking about, so all of a sudden, Mia's nanny is Jacqueline's sister.

So therefore, Jacqueline will sometimes just leave the kids with the nanny that Mia is paying for because it's her sister. so then Mia feels like Jacqueline's taking advantage, but then Jacqueline says that Mia doesn't give a shit about her kids and that it takes a village to raise kids. And what would Mia know about that? Because she didn't have a village to raise her. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Right. We're talking about the kid. Like, what? Their dynamic, it's so clear that the layers go literally back to high school with them. It's so many years and who know, relationships. and who knows what even planet were on at some points that it's like, I could think about that for days. Literally. And I think, again, like, I see, like, some people being like, ugh, like, who cares about Jacqueline in a way? But, like, this to me feels like a true friend of a housewife and that, like, we are learning more about Mia a lot through Jacqueline, as opposed to someone who production was floating around, maybe got to give a champagne flute to and then they couldn't cut around them.

so they're just there. No shade to other people who have been friends of throughout housewives, but like it feels, I don't know, it harkens back to like some of the friends of who used to be an OC who like new stuff, real stuff about like a main cast member. And then that would come up.

And it's, I find it to be interesting. And I feel like I'm like a roller coaster with Mia. But especially the past few episodes, like I don't, I don't want Mia gone. Like, I don't know.

I think Mia brings something interesting to this group that we haven't seen yet. And do I believe? 95% of the stuff that comes out of her mouth usually now. But we've had plenty of housewives like that before. I feel like as we continue on with this franchise, obviously, like we're harder and harder on them. But I was just eating my popcorn riveted between that fight between the two of them. And so were the other women.

That's a good point about sort of the two camps that friends of can fall into, that there's the friend of in a production sense where it's like you're a recurring cast member. And then there's the friend of that it's like, know, this is Mia's quote unquote best friend who has a deep relationship with her, knows everything about her life and her family and et cetera, et cetera, and is for whatever, in whatever set of circumstances is on the show this season. And there's a big difference between that. And it, it feels more authentic in a way, even if we're kind of like, wait, she has a confessional, who is this woman where we don't really know anything about her? It's like, yeah, but she's

relevant to Mia's story. Very much. I think there have been so many seasons of housewives where I'm like, do the friends really need to be on the reunion or whatever? I think she kind of needs to be there, especially with just the capacity of like not even just the fight they've been having. We've been talking about their weird dynamic and stuff for so long. And I think, I don't know if you feel this way too, but like it seems like there's a lot unsaid in terms of like you're my best friend. You're on my show. Like I kind of gave you this opportunity type of thing and you're on this trip, you know?

Oh, it feels transactional for sure, but in a way that's a little bit hard to break down exactly. It's like who in exactly which way is the transaction going and doesn't include a car. Oh, my gosh. And is the free nanny service included in that? And then knowing that they were screaming at each other on the plane. Yes. And let me just say, Ashley and Karen, it was nice that they went,

straight to the surprise. I just know how I feel after a long flight. I need to at least drop my bags off, maybe rinse off for a second. Like they were already so heated after traveling back and they were like, let's drink and sit down. Like they literally didn't even get a chance. Right. So I also think that kind of heightened things too because I know how I am when I travel.

Right. The birthday party being directly off of the hotel lobby before they had even gone upstairs to like, you know, go to the bathroom. Yeah. Change your shoes. Yeah. It was it was definitely a choice I it is the idea of those three women going down to Mexico

A few hours early to like prep the goodie bags with the dildos I'm like okay right I don't know why I don't know why Wendy needed to be there early Right It was interesting but okay I I do like that they're in a hotel this time where everybody can theoretically have yeah the same room Yeah.

I know we've, I feel like, not that you mention it, every house we've been in with the Potomac women, no matter the location, has kind of looked and felt the same. Like there's like an open kitchen with a giant island and like, I don't know, Giselle and Robin are usually in like the attic, like in like the highest room. Like it all kind of blends together. Exactly. And I mean, obviously we've gotten a lot of great content over the years out of fighting over a room in a house or whatever. But sometimes it's like these women have earned their own room. They really have Let's get the hotel

That's why like in Miami Where they were in the Keys It's like it feels like Everybody has their own little space Yes And you can tell that they love Going back to those rooms To like get away from the cameras

A little bit They're freezing cold apparently So They're like oh my God The air conditioning is amazing I know They were so hot the whole time They were in the Keys

But I'm like you live in Florida But I mean I guess Yeah It is it is funny to think about Being on a show like that And it's like no I would need to go back to my hotel room for like a solid hour and a half between any activity just to have like my own. Just to decompress.

And that that is a lot. You're right. Like when they are in these big houses, it definitely can't be easy. Because you really can't escape. So good. So good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince, Sam Edelman, frame and free people.

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Okay, so before we go on the trip, Giselle and Robin are kind of touching base, and we got to talk about the Cherise and Karen of it all. We have been confused and unclear about the root cause of their, dislike for each other. And then so we, Giselle tells us that after the trip to Miami,

Charisse had sent this video in their group chat of this night out and specifically of Karen and Mia's like boobs popping out. And we know that Karen does not like the word titty. No. It's pressed. But she kind of like plays along like she's okay with it and everybody in the group chat is like, oh my God, that's so funny. like not the titty.

But this is clearly not, you know, endearing Charisse to Karen at all. No. This choice to send it. I do, they're using the word post. They're like, you posted this. And I'm like, sending it in the group chat is not posting. The fact that they're showing it on the show is maybe a different story. But I'm like, this wasn't posted anywhere.

No, it was not post anywhere. I also, I wonder, not to do like a little side note, but like, what does the contract look like in terms of, I feel like Potomac more than any group. Like we are seeing their group messages and their text. And it, I feel like on like Beverly Hills, let's say, maybe it's a production company thing. We see like a text and everything else is blurred out. Whereas like it feels like on Potomac, we're just going through.

We're just flipping. Right. It's like the rules of their like discovery phase is different. And it's like on Potomac, they're like, no, no, no. We will be getting the entire transcripts. And on Beverly Hills, it's like, I will screenshot this one text and send it to my producer. Right. No, because there was also the whole thing with Karen's live show, that group text that everybody was invited on.

And it was a little bit forthwallish when they were like, well, we know that it wasn't an accident because like Katie was on this text. Oh my God. Jacqueline was on this text. So basically they're like it wasn't just like it it wasn't just the cast group text or like the housewives group's text. It was like the everybody who's ever been on the show group text minus Cherise. Literally like the entire. Again, because we've had the cast. hasn't changed that much of that show. So like it does feel like she texted anyone who's

outside of Monique. Every single person who's ever signed in the dotted line for the show. You know what? I would, I bet Monique got a text about that live show too. Totally. Separately. 1,000%. She definitely did. Oskala maybe was the one that fully got left off. Yes. But okay. So Giselle's goal in Mexico is to get to the bottom of what's happening with Karen and and to make them love each other again because they've been hanging out since 2014. That picture of them. The same. Oh, boy.

I know. I feel like we cycled with the same three pictures of like, Cherise, Jazeel, Karen, and Robin. Like, and they are, it's really interesting to see how far we've come. We've come a long way with these women. Well, you know that every housewives show, they must, one of the first things they must do when they're, like, casting and starting to piece the show together is to figure out, like, the earliest possible point that they can say these women knew each other. And they're like, okay, great, you took a photo together at a party in 2014.

This will be in the permanent file. If there's a photo of like Lisa Barlow and Meredith Marks that they've been friends for 20 years and it's like, okay, we need to find the photo. Right. We need to prove. I appreciate that Jocel wants these women to get along. Right. I just like, it's not going to happen. It is not going to happen.

I do think, though, and I wound up tweeting this last night. I think it's a little disingenuous when Karen is like, you've been gone for five years, just because I was, like, thinking and, like, Cherise was really around. Even when Charisse wasn't full time anymore, she was around so much. If you remember, she was so close with Monique. She wound up really getting close to Candace. She's even around in season five, but they, like, cut around her a lot. But a lot of accounts were like, nope, Charisse was there.

Like, she was even in the episode for, like, when the ladies first meet Dean. She's a really big point of contention between Candace and Monique, because she was the one who kind of brought those rumors out. So like, really? Karen has seen Jries. She's only hasn't seen her in season six. Like, it's not five years. Charisse was famously at the Denim and Diamonds party,

aka the cash bar party. Yes. That's what I'm saying. So like she really hasn't been gone for five years. There's something else here that we aren't seeing. Right. It's a little bit of subtext that I think is beating around the fourth wall where it's like she wants to be in the group,

aka the cast of the show. And I think that that's fair. If you know this person and don't particularly like this person, I get why you would be annoyed that it's like you're not on the show anymore. Stop trying to be on the show. Right. But then also at a certain point, unless there's a really specific reason why you feel that way, which Karen is not willing to divulge if there is. Right. It just makes you look like a petty bitch who doesn't want to be nice.

Right. And when she's calling her, a husband leprechaun showing up looking for a pot of gold. It's like, that's just, I mean, it's a rude way to talk about someone. So the fact that Karen is being so withholding about the root cause of this dislike, assuming that there is one. I'm not saying I think Karen is wrong, but it's making her look really. Totally. There's like a question mark there. Stubborn.

Because listen, I love petty bitch housewives. Like I have to do bro, for example. Like she just like she doesn't like someone she doesn't like I mean like that that's all that it is I think it's just that Karen does this thing and that's where and again again I know Robin gets a lot of flag she was kind of right in her predicting how it was going to go like Karen deflects in a really great way and we love her for it but she almost jumps from like point A to point C in a lot of weird ways like even the comment about her mother which like really eerily reminded me of like the Giselle wishing death on Ray thing where it's like a weird conclusion you're making about what? they're saying, but it's like really, um, it's a little dishonest in what actually was happening. She said she went to your mom's funeral. Right. And that, you know, Karen sent a text instead of a call. You know, like, you're arguing about the logistics.

And it's, it also is kind of similar to the Meredith and Lisa stuff where they're going over the timeline of when her dad died and the funeral and all this stuff. And she was in veil. And it's, it's the kind of thing where the actual context is really unfortunate because of course it's upsetting that someone's parent died in the first place. And then the fact that now this is being like dragged out into the drama is too bad. But it's also not what Karen is trying to paint it to be, which is like, we're not talking about your dad mother. We're talking about something that maybe is a result of that situation. And yeah, it is like, it's drawing a conclusion

that isn't what someone intended doesn't make your point stronger, I think. That is exactly it. And at the same time, though, I love an activated Karen. Like, I think, like, we've had, like, a, like, if I really think about, like, Karen really being in, like, let's say, the hot seat or, like, it's been a long time. Kind of since the Bryce conference a little bit. Yeah. She's kind of taken on this role of, like, if she is taking a task, it's about whose side she's taking in things, be it the Monique thing. And then her and Jazeel, of course, last season had their thing, but they're always going to go back and forward.

So I like seeing Karen a bit disactivated and like being called out a little bit because A, we get more from her. And I always say again, like we need we need opposing forces. Like we need someone to root for Karen. We need someone to root against the same time. Right. And I think the Cherise thing is kind of the perfect opportunity for that because if you look at the rest of the group, people have varying levels of relationships with Cherise, but nobody else is mad about her being there. And so if you're going to be the one that is constantly making it a problem, constantly making these comments and talking. about Cherise.

It's like if you're the only person in the group that feels that way, perhaps could the problem be you? Yeah. Right. And it's, again, it is interesting how like she just is not even entertaining. Like, I don't know.

There's also the real aspect of this too sometimes when I think about that's like, clearly outside of her being friends with almost everyone else in this cast, production wants her filming this season. Like she very much feels like a friend. She even got like a portrait or what have you. So like a lot of it, I think, has to do with Karen feeling a little, again, threatened just by Cherise being there with maybe it does seem like, not that I'm believing what Cherise is probably going to wind up saying, it seems like that she does know stuff about Karen because they do have a history with each other. Right. And it's a little bit, it's a little bit unfair to be talking about how Cherise is showing up in Mexico, being.

desperate looking for a pot of gold when it's like, no, she fully just is part of the cast this season and has been invited on the trip. Right. Like, I understand if Karen doesn't like her, but it's not confusing why she has arrived in Mexico on the same flight as all the other women in the same block of hotel rooms. Like, she's literally like... To circle back to earlier, it's not like what we're probably going to see with Vicki. Like in the first episode, Robin was sitting down with Charisse at like, inviting.

her to the first event. Like she was... Right. If you're miced up on day one, that's not an accident. Right. You're not just like weaseling your way onto the call sheet for every group event of the season, except to the one planned by your nemesis. Right.

Literally. But yeah, I mean, they get so heated. I don't think... I don't think anybody at that table expected it to get to that level. And especially after Jacqueline and Mia had gotten so heated just were earlier in the day. earlier in the episode, it's like, oh, like, we know y'all didn't like each other, but for it to get to that level where you're standing up from the table, like, shaking the table basically screaming at each other.

I don't think we've ever seen either of these women. No. Having that much, like, aggressive energy towards someone else. Yes. No, I definitely have it. Like, I'm trying to. Yeah, we've seen Karen get heated, but I feel like Karen, like, it's always like at a reunion. Like, where she gets, like, really heated about.

about things. I haven't seen her. Even with like her and Giselle fighting, it's never this intense. It's always like they're just like shading each other and like jabbing. Karen's usual kind of argument style is she can get very passionate with her words, but it doesn't really feel like there's that kind of physicality there where it's like I might need to be like held back from, you know, smacking a bitch right now. And it really feels like they're both kind of like puffing up their chest,

like something's about to go down. Yes. And I don't know. I mean, Giselle calling it like a geriatric fight. It's like, Jizel. She's not that much.

We are all in our 50s here. Right. Right. I know. I did giggle, but yes. It's like. Giselle's unrelenting,

unrelenting quest to make it seem like Karen and also Cherise, but mostly Karen is so much older than her. It's like, girl. It's like trying to get to gaslighting almost. You guys are all. in the same age bracket.

No, because, especially because the cast is so, like, it's so wide an age, though, because you have, like, Candace and Ashley, like, even when Ashley was like, it's my 34th birthday, I was like, wow. Like, sometimes I forget how young she is and how, like, you know, like, she's still, like, 10, 15 years out of, like, where most housewives begin their journey on real housewives. Yeah, I mean, she was and still is, I think, at the start of filming the youngest person to be cast on housewives. She was 27?

I think she was 26 when they started filming. Or 26, 27. Yeah. She was not even, she's not even like close to 30 yet. Like that's, I mean, it's just not the average age at all. And Candace was like 30-ish when she got cast. Yeah. And so it is.

So for Dezell to say that. I do have to, though, MVP front line of the episode for me, I don't know why, was Giselle saying, this is typical Ashley. Woo-woo and Burk in Stocks? And it made me laugh. with the shaman, which like, we need to stop with the shaman things, but it was like, I just think one thing, however I feel about these women, these women know each other so intimately that it's, you know, like, Giselle and Ashley are so close, but she could still like kind of read her in a confessional and it's not a big deal, which like, it's really hard to find that, I think, on these shows. The shaman on this episode was especially tough coming hot on the heels of the shaman on Miami, where like on Miami, these women were having like a come to Jesus moment with the shaman. tears are being shed.

Right. You know, say whatever you want about the shaman's on housewives. But like those women really were going there. Yeah. And then on this, they're like, yeah, I think we should all just get along. Right. Okay. They were just like setting intentions a little bit.

Right. It's like, okay. Like I, not that I would be, you know, crying and shaking in the circle because I got like, you know, my groin steamed out by a shaman. but like it fell a little flat. Very much so. And that's why we like move past it so quack, so quick. Like it literally was like most of confessionals of Karen and Jazeel.

And then we moved on. Yeah. It does feel like we have been in an extended era of shamans and hypnotists and psychics. And, you know, just kind of that whole array of professions, which more power to them in their journeys of careers. I think we just need to... Let's do some other things. I feel like who did it successfully,

I feel like we've seen it so much in O.C. Especially with like Shannon's whole spirituality and wellness stuff. But I feel like we've had like five scenes in each franchise in terms of like, we're all going to get to the nitty gritty with this shaman always on a beach. It's like, it's always kind of the same thing.

I really liked Salt Lake in Zion last year when they were in that spiral thing in the desert. and Mary Cosby was perched on a little rock in her like stiletto boots like literally if she had moved an inch she would have just tipped over and like Meredith showed up late and she didn't want to be there like that I almost enjoy it more when people are like what the what is happening right then when people are like I'm gonna be a good friend now and it's like but you're not right right but you're gonna you're gonna yell and scream at dinner in two hours yes now if they're a little messy which like psychics are a little different but we have a mess messy psychic, that's kind of fun. Who's saying that maybe Brooks is faking cancer. Like, that's fun. Like, I'll sit down and watch that. Right.

Like, you need to be appropriately briefed by the producers on the storylines and, like, what direction your analysis should take. Like, if you're just going to say the boiler plate, like, we're all going to heal. Like, that's boring. I want you to be like, now you two that have been fighting. Come together. Have a moment. Wait, do you remember?

I don't know why this popped in my head when it was like, um, didn't a psychic connect with Dolores' dog? Am I making this up? I think it was at Jennifer Aden's house where like their moms were there. Yes. A couple seasons ago. Yeah. Yeah.

And it was like she had like a breakdown which like absolutely like pet person. Like that's really intense. But I remember in the previews it looked like, oh my God, like what is happening? And it was like a better dog. Oh my God. The editing is like so the way they will tease those things. Then it's like, oh, she's crying about her kid going to college. Never mind.

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Visit redbull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer. Speaking of Jersey, I'm so excited. We are so, I mean, I listen to your podcast, of course. And like, I love when you were talking about how, like, of course it dropped like you're like on a flight, like you're off work. But I'm so, I'm really excited about it. I think it's going to be, it seems again like we're getting this fresh blood, which I'm excited about. And I hope, because, you know, I'm like such a jack-o-lantern here.

Like, I just love Jackie and I'm kind of bummed about it. But I hope they're kind of leaning into kind of like a Miami with like a big group of ways. women who are all there in varying capacities. Because it seems like Jen Fessler and her are very much in the mix. Yeah. And especially because her and Jen are both kind of on the same side of the cast, just in terms of relationships. Maybe they felt like they didn't need to have her and Jen as housewives to kind of balance things out. That's, you know, I do agree, though.

Miami, I think in the two seasons that they've been back have done such a good job of building that group that doesn't really take into account who's a full-time person and who's not. It really follows the group the way it needs to be followed and follows the story and the relationships. And, you know, I think in a way, Potomac is kind of doing that this season, that it's like you have very much. Cherise and Jacqueline are not full-time housewives, but it's not kind of making decisions on who's included in what just based on who's going to be a full-time housewife at the end of the season.

because sometimes that, I mean, that's a made-up distinction. So if everybody is showing up and putting in their, and, you know, pulling their weight, then I'd rather just follow that versus being like, I don't know if we can invite Charisse to another event. Right. Exactly. Like, it seems like they were there at almost every single event. Like, they're around so much. And I think it helps that Evan is like a part of the boys.

And I think, I don't think it's going to be like a Tracy Barber situation where like they, they. Yeah, I don't think it's going to be like that at all. Well, at the very least, I think Tracy kind of was giving, going back to your dichotomy of friends, she was giving like potential housewife who didn't quite make the cut. And it's not that she had no relationships in the cast. I do think she and Melissa are friends. Yeah. But it just didn't quite click.

And I think like going to O.C. next season, I feel like Taylor is going to be more in the category of... One thousand percent. I feel like she's going to be around a lot. I feel like there's not going to be. From what the vibe I'm sensing, I feel like it's not going to be like a line in the sand where I'm only a friend of. Right. I know. It'll be interesting to see.

I'm looking excited for OC. And I'm just like. You don't have to apologize for that. It's okay. I'm glad because like, you know, we've been through, it was some of the darkest of times on that show. But like it is a show that I love. I think Sam Bush has been like rewatching and posting on Broadway historian. And I'm just like, God, when OC was good, like, we didn't know how good we had it with that show.

And I think that I'm excited to see what it's going to bring. Even last season, I was rewatching some episodes. Like, the first like three episodes, the whole Nicole Weiss of it all is really thrilling. Like, it just felt like good old Orange County. And it wasn't a perfect season, but I think it was such a good course correct. Like a step in the right direction. Right. Like Heather kicking Shannon out of her house at the Nobu party.

Like that all was, the pieces were there. And then it sort of, it didn't quite come together into the final pick. that I think we all kind of would have liked to see. But it does feel like that is an example of the production company and Bravo really working until they get it right. And I'm hopeful that this season will be another good step in the right direction. Yeah. We're going to be excited.

Okay. I'm glad that this is a safe space. Because, you know, it's really hard out here to just come out here with your opinions. That's the thing about Jersey again. I'm so excited for the show to come back. It's always going to have like the softest place in my heart because it's the show that I fell in love with first. But like, I'm already preparing myself with, like, armor for, like, Jersey Twitter.

It is unlike anything else. Did you see the photos of the Jude Ice family in Mexico? Not. I think it, like, came up on my feed this morning or yesterday. The daughters just look so old. It's, it is crazy. Like, seeing Melania and Adriana wearing, like, club dresses. Yeah.

Not, this isn't to, like, age shame. Like, I don't care. Anybody wear whatever they want to wear it. they just look like women. Right. And we've seen, again, like, we've seen some of these girls born at this point. So it's, like, kind of wild to like.

Like Melania with underboob. It's weird. It's tough. It's tough for me. Yes. It's kind of, I don't want to grow up. That's what I was going to say. It's like, come on.

Mama said it ain't easy. I'll be popping tags at the mall. Oh, my God. I'm still low-key. So impressed that they were able to get Fetty, because like it was like kind of like peak it was like he was really big it was like at that time you know what I mean it wasn't like Fettywop like five years after like I feel like it was like around it was Fettywap like two years after right exactly

only Teresa there was a booking fee for that don't don't worry oh my god well Malania only ever released that one song I know he never got more maybe you know I'm not so convinced we're not going to get a song from Bougy Mama or maybe not Rachel Foooooooooo But we've- Bougy mama, that's at, that's Danielle Cabral. If you're not fully up to date on the online personas of the New Jersey Housewives, you could be forgiven. But a boogey mama is Danielle Cabrall.

I mean, Dylan, it's funny. I feel like you and I have been like when we're hanging out. We've been saying these names since what the summer, just because it was like online. People knew who these women were so quickly. So I feel like I know Danielle Cabralla Rachel Fuda already. Right. At least now that there's a trailer out, I don't feel like a stalker for like, recognizing these women.

Okay, I do, so I follow Rachel on Instagram because we met at Danny and Evans page 6. Oh, yes. Rachel's a sweetie. I'm excited to see how she does on the show. But she was doing a Q&A last week and somebody asked if she has had her nose done

and like, I think the question was like trying to be a little shady because she has a very particular nose. Like a glamorous Tim Burton character, yeah. A glamorous Tim Burton character. I really respected her response She literally was like, I'm just going to say this because who cares? Yes, I've had my nose done.

No, I don't like it. But I'm not having it done again. Wow. Wow. That is the honesty we love to see because I feel like half the people that get nose jobs are like unhappy with how they turn out. I mean, Jen last year. I was going to say it. And it looks.

It still kind of looks the same to me. Only in the trailer. Because I know like it was like done again maybe. Well, the thing about nose. job. The thing about rhinoplasty is that it has to settle and also Bill would never botch in those jobs. So again, I think these women, like it seems like from the trailer like they're going to bring a fresh end. Rachel seems pretty young too. Uh, yeah. In terms of like, yeah, I think she's like, she's early to mid 30s, I think. Um, and her husband, her husband has a son from a previous

relationship. Okay. So she has like a teenage stepson that lives with her, I think. And then like two or three little kids. Okay. I know too much. No, no, listen, no, I'm like, the kids are cute. I am right there with you. And I think it's, it's going to be great. And I think it's refreshing, too, that it doesn't seem like it's just going to be Melissa and Teresa. It seems like that's very late in the game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm excited to see in the trailer that both Danielle, new Danielle and Rachel, like, have drama with existing cast members. Yes. And again, I think we're, this is all good stuff. We have a lot coming down with Ultimate Girls trip. It's eventually. It's January 9th and the vibes for 2023 are. as good as can be expected.

Hopefully this week is a little slower than last week. Oh my God. At least Jen's sentencing is behind us. Yes. So what are your thoughts on that in general? I'm fine with it. Yeah. Six and a half years is longer than people are acting like it is.

I know. It is a long time. People are like, only 78 months. And I'm like, do you want to go to prison for 78 months? Right. It's a long time. Right. I think, again, it'll be interesting to see what, how we move.

forward with the show. Yeah. There's, again, just to call back to the beginning, who's this production company? I don't want to be them to try and figure out. It's shed. It is shed. You're right. It's like, I don't.

You're busy with the Roney reboot. You've got their hands full. I'm like, maybe we just, but I think you've even kind of said this too. And one of the times we've done this podcast, but like I do find it. I don't think it's the easiest place to cast from either. No. So maybe we just take our time for a second because it's not, it's not working right now for me. No, I think they're going to chill for a minute.

it maybe cameras up in the summer or something. Yeah. Just let it breathe. Just let it breathe. Let it breathe. Let Jen go away. Let everybody take a breather. It'll be fine.

Yes. We have enough on our plate. Exactly. Jared, always a pleasure. And I'm so glad we finally got to do this in person. This was perfect. I already feel like it's going to be a great week. It's going to be a great week.

We're setting our intentions. Our shaman is in the room with us right now. Tell everyone where they can find you and follow you. Yes, so I'm an entertainment writer at The Griot, so you can find all my housewives interviews and reporting there. You can follow me on Instagram at The Jared Alex, or The Jared Alex, and then on Twitter at Hey, it's Jared, H-E-Y-Y-Y. It's Jared. Two Ys. That's important. Very important. It was a high school decision. I'm stuck with it for now. Oh, yeah. No, I'm the Dylan Hafer on Twitter because Dylan Hafer is taken by somebody who hasn't tweeted since 2011, so I don't want to talk about it.

It's fine. Criminal. No, it's fine. But yeah, you can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches and me at Dylan Hafer. Thank you so much, Jared. Thank you. Thank you everyone for listening. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen.

So you never miss an episode. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mentioned at all is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousa McCat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico. Social media by Dylan Hafer. Guest booking by Dylan Hafer and Ali Friedlander.

Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram. and Twitter. Thank you.