Mention It All - Heather’s Housewife Headaches Ft. Heather Dubrow

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

Midway through a scintillating season, RHOC legend Heather Dubrow is in the studio to talk all things Housewives with Dylan. They start by discussing the franchise’s long trajectory, and where season 18 stacks up compared to the show’s underrated golden age. Next, Heather weighs in on Alexis’ return to the show, the tricky balance of friendships in the group, and how she feels about Tamra and Shannon’s latest fallout. Later, she discusses everything that went into the cast trip to Sonoma, and why she doesn’t have a lot of time for drama with Katie and Emily. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Home Depot.com slash price match for details. Betches Media presents. Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, boo. Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I am so excited to have in the studio today a housewife who is currently on her eighth season of Real Housewives of Orange County. But of course, she has been in our lives for a long time in the Housewives family. And I'm so excited to have her finally in the studio. Heather Dubrow, welcome. Thank you. you. Do you know, so my son Ace is turning 14 in December and I started the show when he was

nine months old. I think I remember, because I talked to you maybe two, maybe your first season back on the show. And even then it was like, wow, the kids have gotten so much older in Shea Dubro. I know. Isn't that crazy? I just dropped Nikki off. He's doing his semester abroad in Italy. Yes. Wow. I know. It's crazy. I mean, I think I've talked to a lot of people who like you have watched their families grow up on these shows. And it really, I think that more than anything else kind of puts it in perspective, how much of your life and how much time has passed. And, you know, seeing you on the show with babies and little kids and now navigating teenagers and all of that, it's, it's cool to see. And I think naturally it kind of shows off different aspects of you and your

personality because you're navigating these different things. Yeah. And I think that's, you know, how the audience connects with us, too. Is because, you know, they're raising their families, their kids, going through the same sort of life issues with friends and with spouses and with kids and all of it. We have a lot of teenagers on OC this season because I was just, I was watching this week's episode and, you know, Jen is kind of going through something with, with her teenage son. And, you know, we see Tamara and Katie hanging out with their daughters together. Like, it's kind of a different, a different energy to have like sort of those, you know,

when you have kids that age, there are just kind of these things that arise that you're like, how do I deal with this? This kid is old enough to have their own, you know, thoughts and opinions and desires. And it's an interesting time of life to kind of see across the cast. Yeah. And it's fun for my kids, too, because so my kids, the twins, are friends with Jen's oldest son, Harrison. Okay. They know Harrison.

And then they also are very good friends with Ryan's son, Cole. They went to school together. It's so funny because I think obviously Jen and Katie haven't been on the show as long. So we don't necessarily know all their kids and remember exactly who's what age and stuff. But there are so many connections like that.

There's a lot of connections. Yeah. It's a small town. It is a small town. For as big as Orange County is, it's a small town. Yeah. I think, so it's your third season since you came back. Yes.

And I think it's really interesting to look at kind of the the trajectory of OC as a franchise that when you came back in season 16, it was such a big deal. It really felt like kind of a reset moment a little bit. And then Tamara came back last season. This season, there's so much going on kind of around the show. Obviously, Shannon and Alexis and all of that and stuff with Jen and Ryan. It feels like OC is kind of like at a place that we haven't seen it in a while.

Just in terms of like the conversation around it, the attention around it, how do you kind of put this season compared to now over a decade that you've been in the world of the show. So I didn't watch the show when I was gone. So I didn't. So I'm just saying that because like I don't know what those seasons look like. So I could only sort of speak on what I was told was going on during those years. But it sounded like the cast was like a little fractionated and it wasn't a strong group, meaning the connection, not that the individuals, but you know, the whole is greater than

the sum of its parts, right? So everyone's got to be really strong on their own, and it's got to be a strong group. So I feel like maybe that part was missing. I think me coming back and adding Tamara back brought a little bit of that, you know, nostalgia of what, you know, I think people largely consider were the glory days of Orange County when Alexis was on and Gretchen and me and Tamara and Vicky. And so I think you get some of that back. What I think is interesting is where do you go from here? Because would you bring someone else back or is it time to move forward? Yeah. I think it's interesting. When you talk about kind of those glory day seasons, you know, in comparison with everything else, people will ask me sometimes. They're like, okay, I've watched a lot of housewives. I'm trying to

figure out what to watch next. Like, O.C., it's so many seasons. It's a lot of episodes to catch up on. Is it worth it? And I'm like, look, it's a commitment if you want to start from the beginning and go all the way. But some of those kind of like middle seasons are so just like cracking with energy. And some of the moments and some of the theme parties and the trips and stuff. There are some there's some stuff in there that I think is seriously underrated in like the Housewives canon. Yeah. I think I would agree with that.

I mean, the Brooks cancer thing. I mean, how do you? How do you? Yeah. I'll get a text sometimes from somebody that's like, I'm watching OC for the first time. And this is, I didn't realize that this is what it was going to be. And I'm like, mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

Yeah. And I think the thing that also sets Orange County apart is the humor. Yes. Because Orange County is funny. But I wish they would show a little bit more of that. Honestly. Yeah. It is, it's, when you're talking about kind of the personalities and the people on the cast, I think that's something.

It feels right now like you guys have a lot. lot of great personalities in the group, but also there's a lot of kind of, you know, interdynamics between each individual person and, you know, maybe you have a close friendship with one person, but then they're friends with somebody that you don't get along with. Like, there's a lot of kind of back and forth. And I think that helps kind of, it's like every episode feels like there's kind of something different going on. It does. And I also think it's very much like life, you know. I don't like when it's, everyone's ganging up on one person, everyone's jumping on the bandwet. and, you know, just happy that the pressure's off themselves, basically.

But I think, you know, this is very much like we're in difficult situations. We're friends with two women that have a real problem. Yeah. And, you know, between Alexis and Shannon, and even though I think the audience is very polarized on who is right and who is wrong, when you're really living it and you have history with people, it's not as clear. Yeah. I think that's something, I think some people when they watch the show, they're like, well,

Alexis is being so extra, just why wouldn't you just not invite her? And it's like, well, she's part of the group. And you have a friendship. I remember when we talked a couple years ago, and it was kind of like, oh, is there anybody else that would maybe be a candidate to come back? You were banging the drum for Alexis for a while. And I think it took other people some time maybe to get on board with like, oh, you know what? She is in a really interesting place in her life. She's had a lot of change since the last time we saw her on the show, you know, stuff with her kids, You know, obviously her marriage with Jim that ended and then relationships up in between. I think this season it's been maybe a little different than we imagined.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's unfortunate that the audience didn't get, hasn't really gotten a chance to see who she is now because it's just all about the trifecta. The Johnny J. Evanol. Yeah, right? I mean, it just is. Yeah.

I wonder in that first episode when you were hosting all the women at the Belmont, Boa Club. Like it was such a, it was a nice day. It felt like we were getting everybody together right off the bat. And of course, seeing Shannon and Alexis together was something that was highly anticipated. Obviously, there were issues that day. When did it sort of click for you that maybe Alexis wasn't going to be able to kind of like move past that dynamic in what she was bringing to the season? Well, first of all, you know, I, you know, I wasn't always with her. So, and you know, I wasn't in Big Bear. I was in Lake. So I wasn't with her for that.

So I didn't know everything that was being told or talked about or whatnot. But, you know, there were a few times on and off camera where I said to Alexis, you know, form and content, maybe it's not the right form. Yeah. But she's a grown woman. And you can only give someone so much advice. Yeah. But here's the thing. Like, I get it.

And it's really hard to be friends to be in a position where you feel like your friends. with two people and you understand both sides. Even if the audience thinks it's super polarizing, it's really, sometimes it's not. And I feel like I've tried to be as honest as I can with both of them. But they both, I mean, man, they both had really like difficult years last year. And I think it's unfortunate, they probably would have been friends if she hadn't met John. Yeah, I think this, in this latest episode, when you guys are at Jen at Ryan's house, I guess, for the pool.

party and Alexis kind of gets emotional and she kind of opens up about the toll that this year has taken on her that, you know, she lost her mother, you know, the end of her engagement from before she met John, like that this was not, she wasn't just like, you know, living the dream and then one day John came along and everything has been hunky dory. So I think it was nice in that episode to see maybe that vulnerability, even if it felt surprising as a viewer that it's like, oh yeah, Like, despite all of the, you know, picture that she's painted of this relationship, she still is, you know, going through her own personal struggles. Yeah. She had a really difficult year. And my opinion is she met John at a time where she was at a low spot. She wasn't looking. She tried not to have a relationship with him. But they ended up falling in love. And I think she found this love in this unlikely space and this unlikely time and wanted to shout it from the rooftop. as we all tend to do

and we're like so happy to have joy back in our lives, right? Yeah. And wants to protect her man. I'm not saying I agree with the way she's doing it. Right. I'm just saying I get it. Yeah.

And I think, I mean, you and Shannon talk about two people who have gone through the roller coaster together on this show. I mean, 10 years ago, I don't think anybody would have predicted necessarily the place you two would be in this season. And it feels like you've been able to really, be supportive for her.

And when you guys had that that moment together in Sonoma, where you went into her cabin and were really trying to like get her to kind of put herself back together for the rest of this trip, that felt like such a genuine moment of you trying to kind of help her through this time. I care about Shannon a lot. And I know, you know, we've had our moments. You know, some my fault, some her fault, whatever. We've had our moments.

But I think, and basically, like, we really, like, enjoy being together. And as mothers, we've always been very supportive of each other. Our kids were at, it's funny, Nikki was at this concert over the summer, and he turned around, turned back, he turned around and goes, are you Shannon's girls? And they were like, yes, Nick. And they took pictures and they sent them to us. And it's like, you know, they're blissfully unaware of anything that goes on on the show. Yeah.

And it's just lovely that they connect like that. That's how I feel about Shannon. Like she's a family member. Yeah. It's nice. I feel like you guys both have like well-adjusted kids who are present on the show when it makes sense, but haven't been like characters necessarily. Well, you can't involve your kids in drama. And by the way, that happens.

Yes. In our show this season. And it's really weird. Mm-hmm. But children should not be involved. Yeah. You know, kids are a part of our lives. And, you know, when they're little, they just kind of run through and you tap them on the head and they're cute and they say silly things.

It's kind of fun to watch it back and see what they look like and what they say. And then when they're older, they have a choice, you know, whether or not to participate. I don't force my kids to film, you know, it's like, it's up to you. You want to participate. That's fine. You don't. That's fine. But, yeah, it's it.

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It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Do you feel like with Shannon and Alexis this season, I feel like you and most of the cast have been able to kind of strike some kind of balance of your relationships with both of them and not kind of pick sides? Do you think that was something that kind of each person had to negotiate for themselves, kind of where to place themselves on, I guess, the spectrum between sort of team Shannon and

team Alexis? Yeah, I mean, I hate the teams. I get it. but I know, I know, yeah. But I hate it. And, yeah, it was something everyone not only had to navigate, but continues to navigate. Some people, I think, do choose sides, ultimately. I don't.

It's been, I mean, you and, you and Shannon, obviously, we talked about your kind of trajectory. This season, it's been tough to watch with Shannon and Tamara, the place that they're in. It feels like, you know, obviously they've had so many great times together. and right now for whatever reason, they're not able to kind of get back to that place. But do you feel like when you watch the two of them kind of navigate this part of their relationship, like how do you kind of feel about where they've gotten? I mean, I think it's tough to watch them.

I don't think it's surprising. They've done this before. But just like I was saying, you know, about Alexis, I would tell you, with Tamara, maybe if Alexis hadn't showed up at the top of the season, you would have learned more about like how Tamara feels and why she feels the way she does and what led to the, you know, how they devolved into this. But I think so quickly it just became about John Jansen that none of that was really discussed. And, you know, it put, I think it put Tamara in a position of she's just going to look bad no matter what

because Shannon's now going through this terrible thing. Right. So how could you, you know, dogpile on that? When I think it's tough, I mean, this is not the first housewife situation that we've had where someone's drinking became a question mark on the show. And I think, you know, maybe Tamara, I don't know if the intention is coming from the right place,

but the way it's come across hasn't necessarily seemed like, you know, an authentic concern, but maybe more of like an opportunity to, you know, make someone look bad. It's tough when somebody, you know, Shannon has gone through such, you know, real things that then it's like, okay, are we doing this for a moment on the show or is this like a genuine moment where we're worried about someone? Like that kind of navigating that, I think is really tricky. It is tricky. But I think when you're upset about something, it's just hard to see the other side.

Yeah. I'm not saying I agree with it. But I just think it's hard. No, I get that. And I think, you know, especially like for somebody like Tamara, I mean, Shannon, you, you guys have all been on this show for a long time, in this group for a long time through so many things. It's not like each situation doesn't exist in like a bubble by itself. It's like there's seasons and years and, you know, lots and lots of times good and bad. And you kind of have to like, I don't know, fit it all together.

But also you tell your own story in your own brain, right? Like I'll say this. So you could film someone for a year, right? And you could cut together two very different movies. Yes. You could show all their wonderful attributes and every amazing thing they did and make a hero movie. Or you could show every time they tripped, every misstep, every shitty thing they said or did, and make them look like a douche, right? So we're all like all of that, right?

Like no one's perfect. Everyone's got, you know, moments. They go, oh, why did I do that? Why do I say it? But you're in your own mind, like even doing the show, you have your own narrative of what happened, how you were wronged, why you feel the way you feel, right? Yeah. And I think something that comes up is like something that you have, something that sticks so large in your mind could be a total throwaway moment for somebody else that they might not even remember happening. And it's like you could be holding a grudge about someone.

Well, look at Emily with the jeans. Yes. I wanted to talk about that because I thought that obviously you're kind of the confrontation part of it was interesting to watch. But I think from Emily's perspective, I got where she was coming from in the sense of having, you know, body image, feeling about the way you look and comparing yourself to others, I think is so, it's one of the most relatable things. 100%. And I think, unfortunately, when she brought it up to you and the group, it came across as like a blaming thing almost. And it seemed like you were genuinely kind of shocked that this was even on her mind. I was totally shocked because to me, she's got like the most fabulous figure. I'm not negating her feelings. She felt the way she felt. But and so some of the girls only had two changes and she had three. because to me she was like one of the stars because her body's amazing

and I knew she'd look great in my clothes and you know I had asked each of the girls to bring something Shannon had to bring a whole dress to wear underneath this coat because we didn't make a dress that went under the car right it's a capsule it's not yeah right

so and you want to make the things look different so I have this like this pebble leather white oversized moto that's what it's called it's called the oversized moto jacket I wasn't saying it like it's oversized for you. Right. You need the big one. Yeah. Right. So she wore it and Tamara wore it because they're like the badasses.

They're the ones that would wear. She's like on a jet ski. Yeah. Right. So I had one wear jeans with it and one wear leather pants. It very easily could have been Emily in the leather pants and Tamara in the jeans. Also like James Black, who's the head of family equality, her wife, Charolin, also brought jeans. So there was someone else with jeans, because I was showing the jackets two different ways. When I tell you, putting this event together was a disaster. We had, we were, so it was really about the gems wine launch. Right. Which 100% of the proceeds goes to family equality. Yes. We've been working on it for a year

with this very high-end vineyard who agreed to do it for zero profit. Yeah. Because that's the only way I would do it. Right. So a month before the event, maybe it was even, it was about a month, they dropped out because they wanted NBC to sign an NDA that was like, as if we were going into their wine barrels, like taking their stealing their secrets, tried everything, the legal tried everything and we couldn't get, they couldn't sign it. They were underwriting the entire thing. I then had to pivot. Okay. Find a new wine purveyor. that would agree to do it for a phrase. We found Rack and Riddle, who not only did that,

but they kicked back a dollar per bottle. Oh, that's amazing. Which was amazing. I mean, that's a big commitment. Then we had to find a venue that would agree tradeouts and things. Right. I mean, it was such a disaster. And then I thought, it's too boring to stand around and just drink champagne at a party.

So I was doing this. Like, Heather Chabros done that before. Yes. We need to do something better. So, right, because we did that when I did the Colette, the method champanois, if you remember. So I thought, okay, I'm doing this collab with Susan Bender. I'll get all the proceeds from the pre-orders that day. We'll go to Family Equalty. I'll get all the girls involved. Yeah. This will be like a fun activity. And I think also when you participate in something,

you know, it makes you feel like you have a little bit more of a stake in it. Yeah. So I said to the girls, give me your measurements. There's no time for a fitting. Your measurements, I think. Measurements. Your measurements. I go, there's no time for a fitting. I don't know what's going to happen. If you're not comfortable, you do not have to walk. There's no I couldn't have possibly have said more. And then she was upset. And you saw me keep going up to like, are you okay? Are you okay? And I also tried to tell her if you want something else. Because we had, Susan had brought other things just in case. We could have switched her outfit. She didn't want to make a problem. I totally get it. I just wish she had come to me in a private

conversation. I notice a lot of the girls have private conversations where they have an issue, except if it's with me. Interesting. With it's with me, it's in a group setting. Do you feel like maybe because they think that it's harder to pin you down one on one so they think they have more likelihood of kind of making a moment if it's in front of the group or? I think that's part of it. I think also there's safety in numbers. I think everyone likes backup. But honestly, like at some point, it's exhausting. Yeah. So, okay, so Gene and Emily, you have an issue.

You can go on the pickleball court alone and go talk. Yeah. That's okay. But if you have a problem with me, it's got to be in front of the group. Yeah. And I think, I mean, talking through all those sort of different pieces you were dealing with with that event and that weekend, I think that's the kind of thing that, to me, that's really interesting to know kind of the details of how that came together.

why are these two things kind of like paired together? Does that mean that you're making more money for charity? Like those types of things. Obviously, we don't always have the time to see all of that on the show. But I think it's interesting to know that like for you as somebody who is not just a cast member on The Real Housewives, but is working on all of these different things. That it's like, this was a culmination for you of like, we're bringing the show into this. The wine thing is happening. The fashion thing is happening.

and it's all going money for a great cause. Like, I mean, at the end of the day, it's like, of course you weren't thinking about the jeans. No. It was the least, the lowest thing. I mean, I was just trying to make the whole trip work. And also, so the other thing, which they didn't show was I did this thing. I had to blow up. This was based on a birthday party I did.

I had a big blown up photo of myself. And instead of pin the tail on the donkey, we did pin the shamps on the, the heather. Cute. And so we did that. And Martin Katz, celebrity jeweler, gave me a pair, donated a pair of earrings, these gorgeous, you know, stone earrings that had all, like, all these beautiful stones on them. There were like $28,000.

And the winner of that got the earrings. Okay. But because someone in the cast didn't win it, I guess, they didn't show it. That would have been a whole thing. Yeah. but there was like, there was just so much coordination with this whole thing. It was just so crazy, but I was so happy to do it. And also I'm giving a speech and like Terry's flying in and I have to worry about where the kids

are at home and like, you know, all the things. And that's why I, that Katie tried to talk to me that day at the sound bath. Yeah. And I was like, this is not the, we're like, I barely made it to the sound bath. Like I have a million other things to do. Yeah. Exactly. Like not the right.

time to talk to me. This is the day that my event is. And okay, yes, we're all on a show together and there's things going on and there's cameras around. But I am throwing an event. Yeah. And it's important to me and my family. Guess what I don't want to do. Have some conversation about some petty nonsense drama. You could talk to me later. Yeah. And I mean, to be fair, also to have a conversation about that for like the fifth time. I mean, let it go, man. Whatever your thing. It could be anything.

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and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th, terms at aka.m.S. slash college PC. I have enjoyed Katie on this season in the sense that I think she seems like a really great person. Her family seems interesting. She is, I think she's bringing a lot to the show. But the situation with you has seemed so, it's kind of like a dog with the bone.

Like it's felt very pointed in a way that it's like, it's a little tough when somebody's kind of first foray into drama feels like it's like this over and over again, deja vu. What was it like for you? Because obviously, you know, you didn't want to have this conversation to begin with. And then it's kind of felt like you're sort of unable to just put a pin in it and then move forward. Yeah, I don't know why.

You know, it's funny when the paparazzi thing came up last year. Yes. And they showed a flashback. I was very nonplussed. I was like, yeah, I don't care. Think whatever you want. Whatever. But at the golf event this year, I didn't know Katie.

It wasn't just that. She had like a laundry list of things. Right. It was like you ignored her at the party. Which wasn't true. There's a lot of there's a lot of untruths being told. But there was also you think you're a big timer and you're jealous of my friendships with the girls in Beverly Hills.

There was all this crazy stuff and literally on the heels of, I know you like hot dogs. So I did a hot dog bar for you. It was like, okay. So you did a hot dog bar just for me at your party, but you think I'm a liar and, you know, it was weird. Yeah, that's a strange juxtaposition where it's like, do you really want to be friends with me or do you really want a big feud? Yeah, I don't think she did. I think she wanted to come in and make a big splash and she thought this was great. And she's given a lot of interviews saying, oh, I thought it was lighthearted and fun.

But there was like so many things on the list, like which one was lighthearted and fun. And it was also based on these cheating rumors that is. not lighthearted and fun. Right. That it's like, paparazzi at Disneyland is, is one thing, but when you're tying it back to some root cause that's this big, dark scandal, it's like, that's not... Yeah, and also, you don't know me. Why do you

care? I thought it was, I thought it was interesting to see kind of how you handled that last day in Sonoma when Katie had brought up the thing about Gina, allegedly only, you know, wanting to use you for your real estate connections

and stuff like that. You pretty quickly were like, I don't buy that. Because I didn't buy it from... I trust Gina. Yeah. I didn't buy it when I heard it. Yeah. But like Tamara told me like literally moments before the fashion show started and I'm like,

I can't do this right now. Leave me alone for two hours. And then I'm happy to hear everyone's things. So I didn't believe it. Right. And sometimes Katie will say something to someone and it'll get repeated. And when we come back to her, it's a much different story. Yeah. And so that's why I said, I'm going to let you lead with this. Go ahead. Katie, tell her what you want to tell her.

Because that's what she wanted to do. She wanted Gina to know it was her fault. And so my feeling was when they didn't show this, but at the tea that I did with right after the golf event, it was Valentine's Day. Oh, yeah. Jen and Gina were at my hotel room. And I was like, how did this all happen? Gina told me everything. literally things she didn't have to tell me, which didn't make her look very good, but she was incredibly honest with me. Yeah. And so when someone throws themselves on their sword like that, you're like, wow.

And then I marinated on it and then I got pissed. So that's what I went back to her in Laquinta. But then I was done with it. I was like, all right, you know, I don't know how I feel moving forward, but she has thrown herself on her sword. She has apologized, you know. Yeah, I think Gina doesn't always do herself a favor.

Like the way she handles things, sometimes she can kind of almost be her own worst enemy and kind of make some decisions that maybe even 10 minutes later, you're like, why did I tell her that? Why did I do that? Yeah, but then like at the event, I said to her, I need to talk to you tomorrow, but I'm not doing it now. It was very dismissive. I feel bad. I didn't like the way that looked. It didn't mean it like that. I think. And it's one of my pet peeves when someone says to you, I am upset with you and I need to talk to you later. It's like, don't do that to me. It's like when your boss puts a meeting on the calendar that's like, we need to talk. tomorrow. It's like, don't do that to me. So I feel that, I felt that. But I think I was like in it and she was sitting there and I had to say something. I don't know. It just, I wish I hadn't said them. It's okay. It happens. Eight seasons, you're going to have a couple of those, you know, fumbled connection kind of moments. How, I mean, when you look back at all those years that you've

been on the show, kind of like, how do you, how do you feel about this, this journey as a whole? I mean, you know, I think that it's been interesting. It's certainly an incredible platform. Yeah. And, you know, my first stint on the show really put us on a course that I didn't know we would be on. I mean, it led to botched. It led, which I consider he would say it's not, but it really was like a spinoff. Yeah.

Definitely, like, the fact that it was, you know, Adrian's ex-husband, Paul and your husband, Terry, like it felt like sort of, it grew out. of housewives in a way. Yeah, the same production company and all the things. And so, you know, botched and my podcast that I've had for a decade and my YouTube channel and, you know, all the other, you know, shows that Terry and I have been able to do, we've written three books together. Yeah. You know, we've done TV shows together.

We've done a lot of real estate. You know, we've done a lot of, like, interesting things because of it. The reason I came back, as you know, was to really show our normal. normal family and start conversations in other people's families. And so I will say with the comments that I get online and when I see people out in the world, I do feel like that we're making some kind of headway and some kind of difference. And so even though there are very annoying things about doing the show, like these last few episodes have really highlighted great organizations in the LGBTQIA plus community. And I'm proud of that. Yeah. I think it's amazing to see it. I mean,

seeing just kind of like, it feels like you have this, this kind of purpose of, you know, sharing that. And, you know, like you talk about having, you know, three queer kids who all are, you know, navigating different types of things and different stages of, you know, adolescence and growing up. Like, I think we can't have too many examples of that on TV. And so it's really special to see that from you. I agree. You know what I thought was funny, though, on tonight show or on last Thursday show? Yeah.

What I thought on this last episode was what Mary. Meredith and I walk out. They used real housewives, Heather Dubrow and Meredith Marks. Like, they used that. Talk about breaking the fourth wall. It's fun to see you and Meredith together. That's a good little. She's great.

We hung out at BravoConn last year. Meredith's, I feel like you and her same wavelength, for sure. I think she's beautiful and smart and just great mom and she's awesome. Totally. Well, you too, all of that to you. And I'm so glad we were able to chat and catch up and can't wait for the rest of this season. Yeah, me too.

Thanks, Heather. Thanks, everyone for listening. Don't forget to rate review and follow the show wherever you listen. And you can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mention It All podcast is produced by Dylan Hafer and Bell Roman. Editing by Bell Roman.

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