Mention It All - Jersey’s Last Dance Ft. Ben Mandelker

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

On today’s episode, Dylan returns from vacation to recap an epic RHONJ finale, and there’s no better person to help than Watch What Crappens co-host Ben Mandelker. After singing the praises of uncensored Bravo episodes, they dive into the season (series?) finale that has everyone talking. They discuss the reunion review invitation that almost ruined a friendship, Danielle’s frustrating family situation, and the confusing lack of follow-through on the Bo Dietl storyline this season. Then, they unpack Dolores’ last supper at Rails Steakhouse, where the only real change in the group dynamic is Jackie’s exile. To finish on a lighter note, they talk about why Ben still loves Below Deck, and how other similar shows have failed to measure up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Betches Media presents. Ha ha. Laugh. Funny. Mention It All. A Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer.

We're going to check me, boo. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I am so glad to be back on the mic after a relaxing weekend at home. And I feel like I have subpoenaed the right bitch today because I am here with a very special guest, the one and only, Ben Mandelker, co-host of Watch What Crapins. Ben, hello. Thank you so much for having me here.

I'm so excited. Thank you for being here. You're in the studio. I'm very happy to have you. We've never potted before. I know. We're just, prior to this,

we've only been Instagram friends. I know. I think I met Ronnie at BravoCon last year, but was he solo or? He was solo. I did not go. I was, you know,

we were originally like, are we going to go? And we thought, no, we're not going to go. It's like really expensive. And it'll be just like a lot of pandemonium, et cetera,

et cetera. And then I got my appendix out. So I was like, You know, I'm post-op. I really shouldn't be walking around a convention center. But then like a few days beforehand, he got some tickets. So he wound up, like, he was giving tickets. Yes.

And so he's like, I'm going to go. I was like, okay, have fun. So he went. And then I was like, I had immediate fomo. It's tough. Yeah. I know. Like, I was totally fine.

I was totally fine with my decision not to go until he went. And then I was like, ugh. But next time. Did you see the news that we're having like a Bravo fan fest, something in Miami in November this year. I saw like some vague headlines that there's going to be like a BravoCon substitute. Yeah, like a like some like a mixer at. I don't know what it is.

I'm like, wait. So am I going to Miami the week before Thanksgiving? This is not something that I have. Yeah, I don't know. Actually, it's really good to know what date that is because we're trying to figure out our fall tour. And we definitely don't want to, you know, overlap with any sort of like Bravo cocktail party that's happening in Miami.

Maybe you do want to overlap with it. Maybe we want to perform there. Be like, surprise. A little Countess Cabaret, but. Yeah. Hello, boys. We're here. Well, you are here on a very good day.

I have not yet had a chance to talk about this real housewives of New Jersey finale. Yeah. I was flying back from St. Louis, Missouri, yesterday. And had it downloaded to watch on my iPad as one does on the flight. And I did not realize that Peacock was going to upload the uncensored version of this finale. I'm so jealous because I haven't seen the uncensored. I had to watch the censored version because of like, yes.

I didn't have time to watch it Monday morning. But the scent, like, anytime I've seen New Jersey uncensored, it's like, it's shocking. It's crazy. I remember a few years ago, the screener.

The screener. They sent out the uncensored screener of that season premiere that was Jackie into research. The analogy. My mind was blown. Yes. And that was before we had never gotten the uncensored reunion at that point. So it really was like galaxy brain.

moment. But this finale also pretty spicy without the bleeps. I really have to watch it because I, you really don't realize how the show hits so much differently when you hear the cursing. Yeah, because even, even in like lower stakes moments where it's just like, Teresa Mutter and like,

oh, she's such a fucking bitch. Yeah. It just, it really, I think that Bravo should air uncensored like after a certain time, like after nine o'clock or whatever when they do like their replay, you know, yeah,

because, you know, FX does it, right? FX allows cursing. All the little kids. all the little kids are asleep. Yeah, cable, you're allowed to curse. They just don't do it, right? Because it's like they're like advertisers. Advertisers are trying to be on the good side of maybe the government is what I,

I don't know. It's why I seem like the FCC or something. But I'm like, if FX is doing it with their quote unquote comedies, which are not comedies, separate podcast, then like I think for sure there should be like, there should be uncensored. I know I guess is to drive people to Peacock. But like, Peacock is doing fine. I suppose.

Yeah. Peacock has love islands. The Olympics, traitors. Like, Peacock is killing it. I did, though. I was on the plane, and I didn't realize it was uncensored. And then when I did realize, I had to turn off the subtitles because there's like this sweet old woman sitting next to me. And she's seeing like, you know, sea words left and right on the screen.

I'm like, okay, we're just going to turn off the captions. I actually love watching Real Housewives on an airplane because it's sort of to me like a pop culture gay cruising in the sense of like you're just like you put it on. and you notice who are the people who notice that you're watching Real Housewives and like you sort of like build bonds with people in my mind

I've actually never successfully done it but like I always like if I see someone watching Real Housewives a few rows ahead I'm like oh yes that's my person over there or like I'm always hoping that a flight attendant

I'm always hoping there's a gay flight attendant who sees me watching Real Housewives and then comes by and makes banter and then gives me a free something or another Oh yeah you know I'm hoping that it builds towards basically a free drink this is like this is like fanfic on the the lowest stakes level yeah like I just want a free jacket coke on this flight it's like I'm sending you a code that I'm like a fellow gay and that we enjoy like the finer things in life so therefore I should get a free drink although I to be honest every single time I have played real housewives on an airplane not once has any gay flight attendant ever been like oh yes like I love her like never never it's never happened for me either what are they watching

They're watching like surreal life, whatever it's called, but he's on right now. What are these gays? Well, this finale is really something special. Yeah. We haven't obviously gotten to talk about this whole season. Where were you kind of on this season as a whole? Did you think it was underrated?

Were you ready for it to be over? No, I thought it was underrated. I thought it was actually a pretty good season, especially considering that there was such division from Melissa and Teresa and then also really big rifts with, other cast members, you know, like we've seen that happen on other shows like Potomac or Atlanta or other shows that I can't think of off the top of my head where people like refuse to film, et cetera. And it's, it's been difficult. You saw it on Vanderpump Rules. I actually

really loved the last season of Vanderpump Rules, but a lot of people thought it was boring because there obviously was an issue with Ariana, an issue with Ariana and Tom. What's the issue? That's slight disagreement. You know, so there's like, you know, we always like these shows for cast to be like all in everyone doing like everyone showing up everyone filming and a lot of times when there's a big rift there's usually some sort of back behind the scene stuff like I'm not going to film with that person or if you go and film with that person then I'm going to ice you out and I feel like despite the fact that there was such a huge rift on this season they all kind of showed up still and and like basically Melissa wouldn't go to a Teresa event and vice versa but everyone else

still kind of showed up to all the events yeah I have I've talked about this during this season that I was pleasantly surprised how much it felt like we were still able to have group scenes. Yeah. How much. It wasn't like half the cast and half the cast and there was never, never the Twain shall meet. It was like, okay, maybe there's one or two people who aren't at Teresa's event. And, you know, maybe Jackie's not getting an invite to Danielle's Shore party for the how many

years in a row. But it's, it was still like, I felt like there was maybe until the last few episodes still an overall group vibe. Yeah. Even, I mean, Jennifer and Danielle put aside their differences to go hear the dirt on Margaret. Exactly. And they went to Teresa's podcast. Like, they managed to make it.

What I liked was that the drama of the season was not like, if she's there, I'm not going to be there. Because sometimes, like, that's what it just devolves down into. And instead, we had people who had fights, but they still showed up to group scenes. And we had, like, good through lines for the season. Like, the drama in the season made sense. I guess that's it. When people are fighting about if someone's there, I don't want to be there, yada, yada, yada, I guess it's just not compelling television. And like we've seen it so many times.

We don't feel invested in it versus more human stakes. Yeah. I think also it's sometimes when the drama becomes about the show mechanics versus like the actual interpersonal things that it's like, I don't really want to hear about like who's filming with who. It's like, if you don't want to like be in her presence, that's one thing. but like the when it's when it becomes clear that they're arguing about sort of some element of like how the show is made it's like a little fourth wall break here and there is fun but like I don't actually yeah or just blatantly break the fourth wall for that so really let us in on what the backstage drama is and then we feel like okay we understand truly what the story is and we can understand the stakes yeah but like the worst is when like on potomac you know you had robin and candace they were at each other's throats all season this last season and the last season and the last season and the worst like no one really understood why. It was like that when they, when they sort of concoct like,

uh, some sort of story to explain their fight that doesn't make sense. In this case, it was, um, Candice felt like, even though Candace and Robin were totally allied the season before, Candice felt like Robin,

uh, was like encouraging Giselle to make these claims to distract away from Robin's own shit and that offended Candace. Like it was such a, it barely made sense and like we had to cling on that the whole season. Yes. And that's just like, bad TV right there.

Yeah. Because clearly it was like the issue was something larger pertaining to production or the reunion, whatever it was, some sort of text message. Yeah. It was interesting on Jersey this season, a sort of like production based thing kind of started and then came back at the end, which was this reunion review that Margaret listed. I don't understand. By the way, I feel like it needs a better branding than that.

Like a reunion review. It's welcome to MicroJoseph's reunion review. Well, we finally, because for so much of the time on Housewives, they're clearly directed not to use the word reunion because they're like, before New York. Last time we were all together. Yes. Before I joined this group. So it's funny then when they finally say reunion review, it's like, okay, at least we're

like being honest about what this event is and not just being like, I thought it would be good to get all the girls together and be on the same page before New York. And it's like, we all know. And that's an example where like breaking the fourth wall is fine. Because like we're a sophisticated audience. We've been watching these shows for like two decades. at this point. Like, we get how it works.

You don't have to, like, act like, we don't know how it works. And, like, let us in. And, like, I love that they just were like, yeah, the reunion. Which, by the way, these shows are so, like, meta, postmodern, right? And that, like, we're supposed to be a fly on the wall of these people who are just living their lives. And they have a reunion where they look back at their lives. And then their lives are now impacted by the reunion where they look back at their

lives. Now their lives are about, like, everything that was impacted by that. And then we watch another reunion about that. And then they comment about that on social media. Like, it kind of blows my mind. It really is, it's a, it's a strange kind of, like, it's like a mix of reality and, like, some weird. Yeah, it's like the Truman Show kind of.

Yeah. But I do, I agree, like, the reunion review with Mike R. Joseph's. Like, that was, like, it was cool that they were just acknowledging, like, yes, we got together before the reunion to talk about what we're going to talk about. Well, and I liked earlier in the season how they acknowledged, because, like, Teresa was, like, it's so evil that you guys were all together the night before the reunion and everybody is like, this happens. This is what we do. And like, why wouldn't it happen? Like, Louis has, like, hired

private investigators and he's, like, drummed up so many lies. And they know that Teresa is a brick wall. You cannot reason with her. So you have to get, like, all your ducks in a row and you have to, like, okay, these are the talking points. We've got to stay on the message. Otherwise, Teresa's going to go off and she's going to control the narrative. So this is what we have to say. Like, to me, seems totally natural to do that. I mean, like, you would do it if you're going into a court case, and that's basically Bravo court. Yeah, it's like if you're on presumed innocent, you're not just not having a strategy. Yeah. I did like at the last supper when Rachel Fuda, like, dared to suggest that perhaps Louis is not a hundred percent forthcoming with Teresa about all of his

machinations and things behind the scenes. Yes. Somebody had to say it. Yeah, exactly. Well, Teresa's not going to hear that, though. Like, she is just, I would, I would, I would, I would love to have known what Joe and Teresa's upbringing was because like the damage that their parents did to them is like astronomical. Like like there's no way that you act like this without it being the product of some sort of horrific child rearing. I'm sorry to No No and wife of No No. Like they're like they seem like lovely people. But we got a glimpse into it. Remember going all the way back to season three, the christening. Remember that famous opening scene where there's the big brawl at the christening? And then. like Nona is basically mocking Joe Gorga to his face. I was like, there it is. This is where it was all born. Right. We mostly in the later seasons saw like fragile, gentle,

No No, Cooking the Octopus. Octopus is just never leave my mind. But yeah, it is funny in the finale to see these kind of like pair of final scenes at Melissa's house and at Teresa's house where like Teresa's talking about how, you know, the one thing that she is happy about is that she was able to keep the peace as long as Nona was around. I'm like, were you? She's acting like she's just keep the piece from herself. Like she's the one who's breaking the piece at all times. Right.

And it's just like, No, No, died like season 11 of this show. Like, it had not been peace. It was never peace. The time we were watching. It's, so it's funny the way that they both kind of like view this thing of like, oh, and our parents, like, you know, they. never would have wanted. And it's like, I don't know. Well, it's the amount of times that Teresa talks about family.

You know, family is like everything to me. Like, it's like so important to have family. And she is like the number one, like, person who totally undermines her family. You know, she, I mean, you know, there's going to be the tree stumps and there's going to be, I don't know what the Gorga fans are called, but, you know, the tree stumps will be like, no, Teresa isn't the right. But I'm sorry. Teresa has been horrific for season after season.

after season. I mean, she gets on the reunion, she calls her own brother a bitch boy, you know, it's just like, and then she's like, why, why is he mad at me?

Like, she never seems to understand why people might have a negative reaction to her, like the awful things that she says or the way she's like, totally unwilling to listen to reason. Yeah, I think even if you,

even if Teresa is somebody that you, you know, enjoy or, you know, that you feel kind of more of a connection to her. It's like, she objectively, like,

of peace and love, love, love. But then she will talk as if, like, everything in her world is all about family. And that's what Danielle does, too. Daniel's like, I never want my kids and know what does not like to speak to, like to not speak to one of your siblings. I'm like, well, why don't you call your brother?

Why don't you call your dad? She's been, getting for a text back from Sam. From Sam. It's really not that horrid. So good, so good. So good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom Rack stores now. And up to 60% off.

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It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Okay, one of the things watching this finale, the Danielle and Nate scene where she's finally working up the nerve to text her dad herself rather than having her husband be the intermediary. Yes. I think one of the, like, not talked about enough failures of this season was that they were not able to move the plot forward with Danielle's family drama at all.

No. In fact, we moved backward because last season, I think we saw her dad on camera. Yeah. And this season, he has not, he didn't show up to kids, Bob, didn't show up to boogie kids. I support both of those decisions, by the way, 100%. Both clown car kind of events. But, like, that was something where last season with the brother and this season, in with the brother and the dad.

I feel like that's something where it's like, okay, this is new, new ground for us to cover. We've just met Danielle in the last couple of years. This isn't going back to Gorga Jude Ice. This isn't going back to, you know, sprinkle cookies and stripper gate and all of that. It's like, this is a fresh, you know, fresh family trauma to unpack. Yeah. And I feel like fresh trauma. I feel like the fact that we were not able to get dad or brother on camera once in two seasons now,

It's like, I feel like, I feel like we need to be, like, chipping away at this a little bit more. Well, I get this nagging feeling like this season was, like the shoot was supposed to be longer than it was. Like, we didn't even get a mid-season trailer this season. Like, we, I, like, you know, this was supposed to be around the time where they were shooting the vacation. So that never happened. So, like, I'm sure they were going to, like, get him ready to go for some sort of season finale party, like a proper party. But then, as it turns out, there really wasn't, like, a place for him. But it is weird.

They still could have, like, shot a scene afterwards. and put it in. I was bummed because I thought the dad was so funny. Like when he would cry, he did that thing that I didn't think real people did, which is that he bit his fist when he would cry. He's like, oh! I'm like, I don't know people did that, but he does it.

Yeah, he was just, he was busy with his wife's eyelid. Eye lid, yeah, exactly. You know, like the thing is with Danielle's story is that, again, she talks so much about family. And then she stops speaking to her dad for two years because her dad, like, said something that was standing up for the brother or whatever and she felt like he was choosing her. And to me, honestly, it's like a very immature response.

It's like your dad. Right. And I think for somebody who professes to be like family is number one above all, it feels like it's like I don't think that she doesn't give a shit about her dad and her brother, but it's like she isn't making that the top priority in her life. She's not making a good case for herself. It's not like she said, oh, he's always been a horrific father and I realize I finally have to, he's toxic.

She's like, I love my dad. I love my memories of my dad. I wish I could speak to my dad, but I can't speak to my dad. I'm like, you literally can speak to your dad. You just call him up. He's probably waiting for you. And, you know, the thing is that we all, like Ronnie and I, we firmly believe that there's way more to the story between Danielle and her brother.

She's like, all I did was call up and make fun of him once on my Instagram and then all a sudden he blocked me. I'm like, no. Yeah. There's more to it. You were probably vile to his, who is now wife. We all know. Right.

Like, we've seen how. Danielle can interact with a married couple who she's not a big fan of. Yes. And I feel like maybe Jennifer and Bill this season got some similar moments from Danielle that the brother and the wife did. Yes, I think so. Yeah, no, I think there's just like way more to that story. And like the whole thing just attracts very strangely to me.

Do you think if Danielle is maybe kept around in whatever Jersey looks like going forward, do you want to see, are you like interested in that story? Are you kind of like, eh? I think at this point, I'm ready for more. I don't know if, like, Danielle is like, I mean, do you think they'd bring her back after she had two violent outbursts? I mean, like, on Jersey, that's like nothing. But, like, you know. I mean, that's a good question.

It does seem like we, the goalposts move around when it comes to physical situations and what is and isn't, you know, a penalizable. I don't know what that is. No, that was okay. That was a very, like, good Teresa. I do think it seems like penalizable. It seems unlikely that Jennifer Aiden will be asked back for a variety of reasons involving bots and social media, whatever. But like, it seems like Danielle hasn't been, like, shunned by the Bravo establishment this season. Like, I was that last week I went to the opening of that, like, Diamonds and Rose.

experience thing. It was cute. I'll talk about it another time. But all of the Jersey women were there minus Teresa, Melissa, and Jennifer.

Okay. And it was... So, Danielle's part of Bravo experience. So it was the week leading up to the finale. And, you know, they weren't really like, they had them go around

and each say one word to like tease the finale, which is like, okay. And they're like, shocking. Surprising. It's like, okay, I'm gonna watch it. Thank you, ladies.

Yeah. But so, yeah, like, Dolores was there. Margaret was there. Rachel and Danielle were there Who am I? Somebody else was there Tiki Barber's wife

You know who I met I met Kayla Giovonato One of our failed friends this season She was sweet Yeah they were really kind of like That was like a They were trying to get that off the ground a little bit She was you're right

There was like a few friends That kind of disappeared Tiffany this season Tiffany also It felt like they had a game plan for both of them And in fact I thought like I saw Tiffany in the trailer More could be wrong. They were, they were, the two of them were like present at a lot of events,

but like very little dedicated screen time. Yeah. I don't know. Like if the trip had happened, would either of them have been invited? Like really that trip not happening, you know, maybe it wouldn't have made sense for this group to all be away together. But it does feel like that kind of accelerated whatever breakdown was happening in this show. I also got the sense that speaking of acceleration that they just kind of went for like a leaner. and meaner episode order. Like, they just did 13 episodes. And they didn't, you know, like whatever.

Normally, we'd get up to like 15 or 16 episodes and then reunion and stuff. So I think that they just sort of cut out any kind of padding, any sort of unnecessary scenes of getting coffee and, you know, Ten of Fly or something like that. They just were like, let's just have. Let's just keep it to what we need to have. Right. Well, even the fact that the lawyer meeting where Teresa revealed all of the, you know, the, you know, all of the facts and receipts and so much, so much detail and information,

that was just one week before the finale. So they really, it did feel like they got to the end. They were like, okay, the trip's not happening. Teresa, do your lawyer thing. And then, Dolores, plan your last supper. And then we're not even going to do any, like, pick up shots at home after that. We're not going to do the little title cards of like, they didn't even, yeah, they didn't even do the, like, the little updates at the end. Delores is still waiting for Polly to get divorced. Like, yeah. They didn't do any of that. In fact, a lot of stuff, they didn't actually wrap up.

They didn't wrap up anything happening with Joe Benino and his prostate. We didn't get anything with, like, Polly. There were a lot of things that were just were left. But actually, what they did, I think it was kind of good. I feel accelerated towards that end. They made it kind of, they did make it feel climactic. Like, I felt like, oh, this show is rapidly, like, coming into focus for this finale right now. Yeah.

And I think they clearly, whether this was something they found when they were editing or whether it was kind of a production plan that they pulled off. Like, it did feel like this last supper really was kind of the last chance saloon for like a bunch of different storylines that it's like, this is kind of Jackie's last time. We're probably going to see her. It's like Margaret and Teresa's thing is going to come to a head. Danielle and Jennifer is going to come to a head. We're going to get one more thing about, you know, Rachel's going to come for Teresa one more time.

Like Melissa and Teresa even kind of had their biggest flare up of this. season. Like, it, I think it, watching that scene kind of felt like it was the appropriate ending for the season in a, yeah, I guess a sad way. No, it, it felt like truly like a finale. Because we've had other Real Housewives that have had like these moments that have felt like they should have been the season finale, but then there's still a few more episodes afterwards.

And then they have these weird season finale. Like, I'll always remember when, like, a few seasons ago, like Shannon Bador hosted a season finale party where they dressed up as like rockers and sang. a song that was written by Richard Marks, a song that was actually really excellent, and I have it in my iTunes, and I listen to it. I love that for you. I do whatever I want. But it didn't make sense as a season finale whatsoever, but like this was like, not only did

this feel like a season finale, this did feel like the culmination of the past like five years of this show, which was pretty wild. My only wish was that I kind of wish that they had made Jackie a, a full. full-on cast member. I don't know. Maybe they didn't realize how big her role would have been in this. But I think if we had just patted her out more,

this could have been at like a Monica level reveal that it was Jackie all along. Yeah. Well, I mean, as Danielle says, she just wasn't on anybody's radar. No, she wasn't. Like, not even Bravo's radar. And I think there was kind of the initial gag of like,

isn't it wild that Jackie and Teresa are friends now? It seems like production must not have known about Jackie meeting with the X back in 2021. Because if they knew about that, there's no way that they wouldn't have been kind of planting more seeds and building up the Jackie and Teresa friendship for then it to kind of explode. But then also the other problem with that is that once the reveal is revealed, Teresa doesn't give a shit. Of course not. She's like, yeah, it may be me mean. Because she's already decided who she's angry at. Well, they should have made her a full-fledged cast member just for her rift with Margaret alone.

Because that was actually like, that was like a real, that's like a real human situation. That's something that we relate to is like you have a friend and then all of a sudden like friendship breakups are so confusing. They never make sense. You never really know what happened. Like with a romantic breakup, you can point to different things. But like our friendship breakup is always weird and fraught. And, like, that was what was happening. And I think I would have preferred more emphasis on that storyline than, like, the initial six weeks of you call John Fuda a drug dealer.

You know, you have to apologize to John Fuda. John Fuda hates Teresa. Like, that was fine. That should have been, like, a two or three episode arc max. Yeah. And I just think that, like, that's just not as relatable as, you know, what was going on with Jackie and Margaret. Yeah, we never really got any, like, the, the Rachel and John and Teresa and Louis. never really went anywhere either. It was like they kind of just, they didn't like each other at the

beginning. They still don't. And yeah, they weren't having a lot of one-on-ones where that was relevant. Like it was kind of like, yeah. And Rachel was just like very like, I'm like, I actually like Rachel, but I just got so sick of her being like, I can't believe that Teresa would say that about John. He was 16 and he was selling marijuana and she's saying it like he's an active drug dealer right out. She has to apologize to John, John's family and John's child to teacher, that's it. I will not accept anything less than that. I'm like, oh, God, I really don't care, Rachel.

When she had the blowup at Jen Fessler for, like, daring to try and defend it. Yeah, to mediate. This isn't, like, Rachel, you're trying too hard right now. But yeah, the Margaret and Jackie stuff is really fascinating. And Margaret really, I mean, she was playing her, like, top tier housewife, you know, trick up the sleeve moves. Yeah. Sending the text to Dolores with the screenshot, you know,

while they were on the opposite end of the table earlier this season, saving this reveal of Jackie meeting with the X until the 11th hour and really forcing Jackie's hand. And I think maybe Teresa doesn't care that Jackie met with the X, but I think pretty much everybody watching the show is like... It's just shitty because she let Margaret take that heat for so long. Yeah. For so long, so many years.

And she could have... Like, I understand why she didn't say. at anything. Like, why would you just, like, offer up that information? But it's just sucky that your friend is getting this heat for so long. And then you have this entire season that is like, you basically have this cast as we know it crumbling to the ground because of this, like, you know, this is, this is Teresa's big allegation against Margaret. This is why she's calling Margaret the root of all evil, which is, of course, just a deflection off of, you know, Teresa and Louis' bad behavior. Yeah. But, you know, last season. But, like, Jackie, I don't know if

Jack you're revealing would have fixed it because clearly it made no impact on Teresa. Teresa decided she just hated Margaret. But I don't know. I can't believe that she just was. Even when confronted, she denied it until finally she's like. Yeah, she had to. She's like, okay, I did me. She said no like four times until Melissa's like, if you, if you, if it's true,

you need to say it because there's going to be proof. Like Margaret clearly has the receipts. Yes, Margaret knows how to do this. It's funny because last season it was all about like, does Margaret have a vault? Margaret has a vault. Mark has a ball. She's like, oh,

an Arsenal, sorry, sorry, Vault was Heather Debrough on Ars County. When Shannon's talking about John, yeah. What are you talking about, Arsenal? I don't have an Arsenal.

This is one of the ridiculous thing I've heard in me while this season. It's like, okay, here's a screenshot from six years ago of what she called you a slob. Yeah, it is funny because it's like,

it would be one thing if, you know, Jackie and Margaret, let's just say from the beginning of this season, weren't really friends anymore. But going back to 2021, I mean,

that's a lot of, that's a lot of tape. that we've seen since then. And it's certainly knowing that, you know, Teresa was basically, Margaret was public enemy number one for her the whole time and that Jackie just sat on that. And one thing that always bugs me on Housewives

is when people are like, you can say anything you want about me, but I'm not a liar. I never lie. I don't lie. That's the worst thing you could say about me. And I'm always like, I mean, people lie. It happens.

But like, Jackie was lying. She was lying. I'm actually also surprised she just didn't bring it up herself just to just to bring it up right because then you at least have you at least have the thing to fall back on of like I did it because we were fighting at the time but I told you about it and I wanted you to know and I wanted us to have a friendship that was you know like on the level or whatever yes but no I mean Jennifer's like we look you said you never yeah yeah um you know

the other thing is it's funny that like Margaret got so hammered for the um for the arsenal stuff But the truth is all of them have arsenals. Every single, any housewife I've ever met is always like, can I just show you something? And they always have, they always like, would you look at this? Look at this. Look at what she wrote to me. They all have, they all keep her seats. They all keep it.

They all, they all show up with Manila folders for the reunion now. And then they like, like, oh, well, look out for it. Margaret, she has an arsenal. I think the only reason why Margaret gets the rep for having the arsenal on that show is because she actually knows how to use it effectively. Yeah. And I think there are certain housewives who like pursue the. information more actively versus just some are like, you know, receiving information. But that if you're on Housewives for multiple seasons, you would kind of be doing a bad job

at your job. If you were just like, no, I know everything I take at face value. I've never screenshot a text or looked for a receipt. It's like, that's just you have to play the game. It's not, this isn't like OC season two where you're like, what? We're supposed to fight. But yeah, Margaret is just, she kind of is playing chess. And some of these women.

And that's why Teresa hates her so much. Because Teresa has been totally outfox by Mark. Well, first of all, because Margaret had Teresa's number last year at the reunion. Yes. You know, Margaret was like, you hired Bo Dietl. You called up my son at his work. And you're a piece of shit. And rather than Teresa, you know, being able to sit in that and be like, okay, we fucked up.

We crossed a line. It went too far. We were so mad. She can't do that. So instead, she has to find a way to mentally wrap. her mind around the situation. She has to make Margaret the villain instead. So like, what we did is, we didn't do anything wrong.

As Margaret is the root of all evil. So like if anything, she doesn't even explain the Bo-Deedle stuff. She never even has to really answer for it. Like, did she ever do it? Like, that should have been the storyline this season of, hey, what was the deal with these allegations? And that wasn't the story. The story was that Teresa just goes on the offense.

She's like, no, Margaret's the root of all evil. I know shit about her. I've learned this shit about her, which is, you know, funny because, She's denying that she hired private investigators, but her storyline is like, I know shit about Margaret. She's like, I just hired an attorney to log a lot of billable hours. Yeah. So, like, Teresa's very frustrating that way.

And, and, um, drives me nuts. Yeah, I think, I think the idea that Louis is, you know, it seems pretty clear at this point that whether you believe, like, the worst version about him or the, like, medium version, that it's clear that he is, Kind of at work behind the scenes. He's toxic. He has too many exes that are angry.

I'm sorry, that's just not normal. Like, you're allowed to have, I think you're allowed to have one jilted X. But if every single one of your exes is jilted or quote unquote jilted, then they're probably not jilted. They are like, what the hell this guy is toxic and America needs to know this. Right. And when, you know, everybody in the cash is like, so I was on a plane one time and Louis's second cousin's niece's sister came up to me was like, you better be careful. Yes. That's not normal.

It's just not. And so I think that's something that has been a little frustrating that it feels like because Teresa is this brick wall, like you said, and she's never going to question anything that Louis is doing or saying, it feels like we haven't really been able to get to the bottom of anything with him other than hearing about Bo Dietel and that stuff. So it's like at a certain point, it's like, does the network or production just like not really? care to go there that much or do the women in the cast? Are they actually scared? Like, it does seem like something where at a certain point, like, the shoe needs to drop or we just need to, like, move on to something else. And maybe that's what we'll do next season.

Yeah, I mean, I have no idea what next season's going to be like whatsoever. It's so weird. Because I feel like with the season of New York that led to their reboot, it was just like months and months before we heard anything. And so there wasn't this kind of active question of, like, what's what's happening with New York. It was like, okay, they're taking a little hiatus, whatever. And then there was a big announcement with Jersey.

It's been this entire season. And he's on the radio every week being like, we just don't know. Yeah. Like, it is weird to know. It was weird to go into the finale knowing that this was, like, there's a reboot that is coming. Right. Like, we didn't even know with Atlanta. Like, is there going to be a reboot?

Will there not be a reboot? We knew that they needed some help. We knew they needed help. But, like, they have not helped Atlanta for years. And Atlanta has been languishing for. several seasons. Yeah. And so it's like, are they just going to let this show?

They're just going to like, like, you know, to hire one person bring someone else on, or they're going to actually reboot it properly. But, yeah, it was weird to know that like this time they're like, like, no, this will be a full reboot. Good sleep is everything. That's why Ali's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-Dienine

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Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. But I'm sure that, like, Dolores will come back because she's so neutral, and I think that people like Dolores. I love Dolores. And I feel like there'll be one of the newer women will be on it. I feel like it'll be, like, Rachel Futa. I think it'll be, like, this random, like, Dolores and Rachel Fuda, and then everyone else is going to be new.

I don't even know. I mean, the other thing is this. Like, yes, Teresa is a star. For all the shit I talk about Teresa, like, I don't deny that she's like a star. But she's also probably an expensive star at this point. So like Bravo may be like, well, this is a great opportunity for us to save some money. I think that's a great point that, you know, aside from the puzzle pieces of who works together, like, personality-wise, that if you're putting together a show budget-wise, that everybody on this cast at this point, except for maybe. I mean, Danielle and Rachel obviously aren't making nearly as much.

And probably like Jennifer is somewhere, you know, mid-range. But like Melissa's got to be expensive. Teresa's got to be expensive. At this point, I would guess Dolores and Margaret are making pretty good money too. So it's, yeah, I mean, it makes sense that they're kind of going in that direction anyway. Yeah, because Bravo, from what I hear, Bravo's like the way they do their contracts is like you get more and more, the longer you're on a show, the more money you get.

So Teresa's been on for a very long time. And, you know, you know, Bravo, like they got rid of candy. And even though Candy says that, you know, she left on her own.

Like, no. Candy was fired. I'm going to say, that's my prediction. Candy was fired. And, uh,

you know, so they're, they're like, you know, the money they're saving with Candy and Teresa, they could start up like a Southern charm, you know, Memphis.

I don't know. Yeah. And I think if you look across the housewives landscape, the only person who's like, you know, kind of at the Teresa level of like active housewives tenure is Kyle. Yeah. Kyle is, you know, I don't mean this to as a slight to Teresa. Teresa is not like a network star partner in the same way that Kyle is. I mean, Kyle's in a Christmas movie on Peacock and she's in the Halloween franchise and she's, you know, doing. you know,

being in commercials for things. Breaking into music. Nah, music videos. Like, I think that Kyle is somebody that they probably see as like a good investment

in a way that I'm not sure. Teresa really brings that kind of like expandable universe of, of stuff. I mean, Kyle also, like, Kyle brings,

you know, Jamie Lee Curtis, Oscar winner Jamie Lee Curtis into the Bravo fold. And Teresa brings like Victoria Gotti. Okay. I was just looking over the season six Wikipedia

because Ronnie and I on the show Keep on talking about Well, there was that one season Where it was just like it was like all new people And the twins and Amber Marchezy and everything And someone messaged us and said Why do you keep saying that Teresa wasn't on that season? Teresa was on that season and I was like

Really? And I looked. I was like oh my God, that's right. Teresa was of course she was Because it was Dina. Dina came back for Teresa And then I was reading like the episode It's like, what happened on this season? It was like one episode was Victoria Gotti, like tells Teresa and like one of the twins or some, like, some sort of gossip.

I was like, oh, that's right. That was when they had to bring Victoria Gotti onto the show to spice up that season. I've seen every once in a while I'll see somebody who has like the hot take that the twins were underrated and they should like bring them back. I'm like, I literally just had that hot take I think yesterday. I think the twins were underrated. They were all right. I think that season is just so cursed that you can't. I think, yeah.

the amber, the amber of it all, like the Amber and Jim Marquesie. Is it Marquesie or Marcezi? I think it's Marquesie. Yeah. And they were so, so terrible that like, yeah, the twins just, the twins just didn't stand a chance. But like, if think about it, the twins brought some drama, like, there was the issue that, like, wasn't it that, like, one of the twins's husband was sleeping with the twins'

mom? Sure. It was like, the mom's name with Santa. You've read the synopsis more recently than me, so. No, and the synopsis is just like, there's. gossip about the twins or like Teresa spreads a rumor about the twins that they don't actually say in the synopsis. Those like one sentence

like episode descriptions are so funny because it's like the ladies gather for Jill's whatever whatever and also Simon and Alex go on vacation. Like this reunion would have been I mean this episode the last supper would have been like Margaret has a surprise and Margaret shares her surprise.

Margaret shares some news. I'm really curious so you on your podcast watch Croppins. You guys record a lot. Yeah. I do three times a week and you put me to shame. You still are doing below deck. Sure are. How do you feel about below deck these days?

Because it's been a couple of years since I really was on the train. I think below deck is just one of the most finely tuned machines that's out there because like it's on all your round now. Every Monday. Every Monday. It's like always the same thing. and yet you're always invested. It's just, I don't know how, like, how many times do we have to watch, like, this stew hooks up with this deck hand, and then as a result, like, one Sue's not doing

their job, one deckhand doesn't know how to do this, like the bosun doesn't know how to dock. Like, it's the chef, oh, messes up a meal. It's the same thing. And yet it's endlessly watchable. Like, you get drawn in, like, the stuff that happened on last night's episode, I was like, oh, my goodness. Like, Bree. And it's always such low stakes.

it's like, I can't believe Bree mess up the laundry again. It's like about like, did you fold the laundry properly? Did you find the shirt? You know, and you care. The food cold again? Because I think ultimately it's like it just parallels everyone's workplace, right? And I don't even have a workplace, but it's like I just zoom. Parallels me when I speak into the microphone.

Parallels me trying to make breakfast. But like it's true. Like I think like everyone gets that like what it's like to be in a workplace and someone is not pulling their weight or someone's being overbearer. someone's micromanaging, someone's messing up, someone like is not getting their shit together, a client is being annoying. Like we've all been there. We've all experienced it. And like below deck, you just, you watch it and you're like, this is how I would have done it, you know? And it's like somehow really, um, girl, just do the laundry.

I mean, have you, are you watching this season? No, I'm not. That's why I'm interested to hear from you because I feel like I have left below deck, you know, it just kind of fell off at some point for me. And it's still, it is so consistent. And it's like, as much as we talk about what's happening with housewives, why isn't this show ready? Where, why aren't they filming? It's like, below deck, it's every single Monday. When one season ends, they're ready with another one.

They are ready. I mean, like, it's, this season is hilarious because one of the main storylines is that there's this third stew who cannot figure out how to do laundry and run episode 10 and she's still messing up the laundry. Like, she's good. Captain Sandy's like, uh, hey, Bree, this isn't my shirt. Where's my shirt? Like, it's like, like the shirts

are going the wrong places. But, I mean, Below Deck, it really is, it still is really good. There are still episodes that are amazing.

And actually last year on Below Deck, down under, which is really an excellent, an excellent iteration. You probably heard that there was a very powerful episode that dealt with, like,

sexual assault. I think I did watch those episodes. And those were like legitimately, like, those kind of like blew me away. They were so powerful. Yes. But the show can also just have like stuff just goes so wrong sometimes.

And you're like, what? Like this is such a shit show. Like I'm like, how is this boat, has it not sank? I mean, they, because they perfected the formula. They figured out what to do in a way that housewives, Jersey Shore, Banderpump Rules, Summer House. All these shows have never figured out, which is that you keep only two people, two or three people per season.

And then you always just, it's always new people coming in. You set that expectation for the audience. That way no one's like, I like the old cast. Like it's, you don't have a choice. It's always new people. Sometimes old people come back, midseason or whatever. It's always fresh. Yeah, I think it's smart the way that they've never,

because sometimes there's like, oh, I liked that person that was on below deck med season four. Like, why didn't it they come back for another season? It's like, unfortunately, that's not. And they're working. That's not the formula. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, like when you watch, Adam, did you watch Vanderpump Villa?

Yes. Not all of it, but yes. Like, truly, I think one of the worst shows I've ever seen. Like, definitely one of the worst shows we ever covered on Bravo. I really feel like everyone involved in that show should be ashamed of themselves. They should be ashamed of the work that they put out and the time they wasted because it wasn't like so bad it's good. It was so bad, why am I watching reality TV? Why am I investing in this genre?

And you can see when you watch below deck, you see how good below deck is when you watch something like Vanderpum Villa, which is like trying to do kind of a workplace thing. And it all, you know, it's a bunch of people working in a villa trying to give like luxury experiences to guests. And it's, I'm like, it's so shit. It's so bad. And I'm like, wow, I am so impressed with the way that below deck is able to build so much drama and move forward so many storylines in every episode. Whereas Vanderpump Villa struggle to get anything done in one episode, you know? Yeah, it's so interesting how a format that sounds the same on paper can be so different. Yeah.

And I think that also, like, I feel like on below deck, of course, there's like some sort of like producer. manipulation or like things that are like clearly producer driven moment. But, you know, there's cameras everywhere. I think that there's so much stuff on Blow Deck that's just like, this is just the people being the people, right? This is just like the, you know, like people, like, if you mess up like a docking, you're not doing that to make good TV. Because if you like, you're not trying to sink a boat for good TV, you know. So people are really being generally themselves. And I think it just comes across as opposed to Vanderpom Villa, which was just like a fully scripted experience.

It makes me miss. Did you ever watch Lindsay Lohan's Beach Club? You know, I didn't actually see that. Like, I very rarely venture into the world of E Entertainment. But I kind of do wish I had seen that. It was such a shit show, but it was so funny because they were, like, living, they were living in a house together, but then they were hosting at this club in Mekonos. And, like, objectively, the, like, goal was that only a couple of them were going to be kept on at the end of the season as, like, global ambassadors for the Lohan brand. And it was like, so what does that mean?

And so everybody's just like, it's my dream to be an ambassador for the low hand brand. I have to sell these tables. Did you ever watch Welcome to the Abbey? No. It was on E. And it was like it was E trying to do Vanderpump rules. Like the Abbey like next to Sir, the Abbey. Yes.

Like the famous, the biggest gay bar in America that's in West Hollywood. And so they tried to do that. I mean, it was such a colossal failure because the entire cast was straight except for two people. I'm like, really? Of course. This is a gay bar. You're going to focus on the straight people in the gay bar. It was such a terrible, terrible show.

But, like, it also makes you appreciate Vanderpump rules. Like, this whole, everyone trying to do, like, the hospitality reality show, it's not easy to do. Yeah. I mean, between Vanderpump Villa and Welcome to the Abbey and Lindsay Lowen's. They don't all get a second season. It's not easy to replicate these shows. It really isn't. And it's not easy to do this.

I mean, we're doing hard work here. You know what? You know, someone's got to do it. Someone's got to do it. And you do a lot of it. Tell everyone about Watch What Crapins and where they can find it. Well, Watch What Crapins. It's available on really any podcast platform that you listen to.

We do, it's basically like a daily podcast at this point. It's like a radio show, but on podcasts because we do. We put out at least five episodes a week, if not more, up to eight. Sometimes you have a bonus episode on Patreon. It's just, we just, we're spewing out content. And we also, but we also branch out. We recap House the Dragon this year, which seems. off brand, but it's actually like, has an amazing parallel with Real House House of New Jersey.

They both had the season finale in the same night. And Melissa Gorgher herself, in the middle of the Jersey finale goes, winter is coming. I was like, wow, the crossover moments. Does anybody subpoena the wrong bitch on House of the Dragon? Kind of. I feel like that's like what the whole show is about. And so we do that. And then this fall, we're building out a tour.

We like to go on tour. We haven't gone on a tour in about a year and a half, two years. Okay, the people are, the people miss it. The people miss it. And you have to definitely come to one of our shows when we come to New York. We just are finalizing dates and cities and everything like that. It's like a whole annoying process. But like we are prepping to go back out on the road.

And that's always super fun. And there's probably something else really cool that we do that I can't even think about. But, you know, we're just on. We just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. And that's what we love and that's what we're here to do. And thank you so much for being here today. Thank you so much for having me here. Yeah, this was great.

Thank you so much everyone for listening. Don't forget to rate review and follow the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like Uncool. Mention It All podcast is produced by Dylan Hafer and Bell Roman. Editing by Bell Roman, social media by Dylan Hafer and Candice Maniga, guest booking by Ali Friedlander. VP of Podcast is Chris Allen.

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