Mention It All - Not Just Another Housewives Book Ft. Jackie Goldschneider

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

On today’s episode, RHONJ star Jackie Goldschneider returns to the podcast to discuss her bold new memoir, The Weight of Beautiful. She and Dylan talk about her decades-long battle with an eating disorder, and how she got to where she is today. They also talk about her time on Housewives, and how it impacted her road to recovery. Later, Jackie shares how her outlook on life and the show has changed, and the way she’s approaching filming these days. Content warning: this episode contains open discussion of eating disorders and mental health Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Home Depot.com slash price match for details. Betches Media presents. Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We'll go check me, though. Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I'm Dylan Hafer, and today I am so excited to have in the studio a returning guest, but a first-time author. Her book comes out tomorrow, The Weight of Beautiful. Please welcome Jackie Goldschneider. Hi. I'm so excited to have you here to talk about this. book. It's a long time coming. And how are you feeling now that it's about to be out there?

I'm like a mix of like so much excitement and nerves and a little nervous because there's a whole lot of dark secrets in here. But I'm really excited. Yeah. Over the last couple of weeks, I've seen some excerpts and stuff starting to be published and shared and stuff. How has that felt now that, I mean, obviously you wrote the book a while ago, but it's finally happening. Yeah, it's amazing. It's like giving birth and like meeting your child. It's like crazy to know that this stuff that I wrote like is just sitting at my desk at home is just finding its place in the world. It's, it's amazing. What was your, what was your writing process like? Because obviously it's a very personal book. We'll get into some more of the stories and stuff that you share. But it's not just like,

oh, like, let's have fun and write a few chapters. Like, what was that process like for you? Well, every time I started a new chapter, I would say, oh, my God, I don't know even how to begin writing this chapter. I don't know what to say. So I would do, for a full week, I would do just dream of consciousness, just write and get out like 500 words, no matter what it said. And just after about like 10 days of that, where I had like 5,000.

words, I would just, then I would start to like, josh it, you know? Then I would go back over it, like every day. I would go back over it and over it. And at the end of like a three-week period, I had, like, everything just ended up being a beautiful chapter. You know, there were times when I would just find words that I didn't even know I had in me. And writing this book was a joy. Were you, were there things that you had decided beforehand that you either were or weren't going to put in it? Or was it kind of just, like you said, stream of conference? consciousness, like anything that comes out, I'm going to let it be there for now. No, there were things that I did not think that I'd be writing about, that during the course

of writing it, I knew that I couldn't tell a complete story without being really open and vulnerable and some stuff that was really embarrassing that I wanted to keep hidden, but that I knew that other people with anorexia or any kind of eating disorder probably struggled with. And I really wanted to be transparent. And I couldn't have told a full story without doing that. Yeah. As I was reading the book, I thought it was interesting kind of you do start with your childhood and being a teenager and going to college. And it really is the story of your life through the lens of your relationship with your eating disorder.

And I think, you know, there could be a thought at first that it's like the whole book is about this. But when you actually think about it, it's like because that was present for all of those experiences. Yeah. I mean, I really think the crux of the book is like, you do. don't have to have an eating disorder or any interest in an eating disorder to love this. It's really just a story about losing yourself and losing your way and getting so lost in, like, a toxic world, and then one day deciding that you wanted to save your own life. You know, that's really what it is. It's finding your way out of a really bad situation. Yeah. So take me back

to the decision to write the book. How did this, obviously an opportunity came up and you decided to do it. Was it a no-brainer for you that this was the story you wanted to write and to share? I always knew, well, you know, I had so many secrets inside me and I knew I had enough to fill a book. So if I was ever going to write a book, I knew this would be it. But I couldn't write it while I was still sick because it wouldn't have a happy ending. It wouldn't have any ending at all. So when I did decide to recover and I was enough of the way past, it to see the end in sight, I wanted, I knew that I wanted to write this book, but I also wanted to write it while I was still actively recovering because the place that I was in was so raw

and I was still struggling just enough that all of the emotions and all of the fears were still so raw. So I had an agent before my current agent who told me that I was too sick still to write the book, that I was not healthy enough to write the book. And, um, and then we parted ways because I knew I knew how I wanted to write this book and and I didn't want anyone to stop me. Reading especially the later chapters when your time on the show and kind of how you came to terms with what you shared and when and, you know, what's on camera, what happened behind the scenes, it's clear that it was kind of this long series of decisions that you had to make

for yourself. And I feel like, you know, this kind of feels like another step on that journey of like now we're, we're going to tear down even more of the walls. We're going to be even more honest. And, you know, it's clearly a huge decision. But it seems like one that is kind of what you need to do for yourself. Oh, yeah. And writing the book was so therapeutic because I went there in a lot of places that I wouldn't have gone there if I wasn't writing about it. Like all the the ways that I probably, you know, hurt people in my life. I never really. let myself think about that. But I had to when I was writing about it. You know, I know it caused a lot of hurt to my parents and to Evan. And, you know, I know my children saw a lot of awful things. And I really

had to examine that when I was writing, whereas I might just have, you know, put it behind me and said, well, I'm not going to think about that anymore. I'm just going to recover. You know, so it was therapeutic. I think when you, when you lay it all out there like it is in the book, you also see, though, that it's kind of like an exercise in forgiving yourself a little bit. Absolutely. It's like all of those experiences were wrapped up in something that you clearly, you know, that you didn't have control over. And now you're kind of, you know, working through that.

Yeah. I think a lot of forgiveness and also a lot of letting go of, you know, any kind of trauma or bad times in my past because those are the things that kept me connected to fear. So I always, a reason, one of the reasons why. my anorexia lasted 20 years is because I was so scared of what life would be like without it because I only knew life as unenjoyable before I lost weight. And I was so scared of going back to that, but letting go of the trauma from those times and even letting go of traumatic things that happened in recent years really let me recover

and move forward. And I don't know that I've ever been as healthy as I am right now. Yeah. Well, I love to hear that. I think you talk a lot about kind of your various different experiences going to doctors and seeing people. And you mentioned about how doctors never made an issue of your weight unless you were heavy. Yeah. And that this was a total thing that basically so many people missed what seemingly should have been obvious red flags or whatever. And I think that is something that is, I mean, to me personally, like that's such a. a fascinating thing that happens in our society. And I think it's as somebody who has kind of been on both sides of that, it's really interesting to see how personally it perpetuated the situation you were in. Yeah, I mean, what society looks at is health. The way that they confuse health and thin is mind-blowing. But also, it's very dangerous because I would walk out of their offices underweight and my heart was in bad shape

and my heart rate was way too low and my blood pressure was way too low and nobody would flag it, you know? So I was, you know, a heart attack waiting to happen. So good, so good, so good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love

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It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Also, you talk a lot about your fertility struggle and your efforts to have children. And I think that's something we see a lot of women on Housewives and Bravo shows have had various different, you know, fertility journeys.

And that happened for you before you were on the show. But I think that's, I mean, it's something that people have always been kind of scared to talk about. And I think with your situation in particular, it's like so important to know that. Yeah, I mean, because people don't realize all the ways that you can really destroy your body with an eating disorder. And so I, I mean, not to get TMI, but like my body was not functioning like a woman's body should. Yeah. Right. So I was in, I had no period.

I had didn't ovulate. I didn't do any of that. So I basically caused my own infertility, which was, you know, years of IVF, lots of money, lots of emotional stress. But also, I've been, I caused a lot of other damage to my body too. So having to go through years of fertility treatments was one thing. But, God, I could, like, rattle off for you all the ways that I really hurt myself. You know, it's eating disorders are a mental illness as well.

and it's really no one talks about it, and that's why I was so thrilled to put this out there, as scary as the secrets are to reveal, and as embarrassing as some of them are, I know it's an important book, and I hope that it opens up more conversations. Yeah, and I think seeing it as a mental struggle as well as something that manifests itself physically,

like in the book, it's like you have various different sorts of, of phases of, you know, seeing one person and, you know, starting to work on this, but then it, you know, it translates into just more mental math or whatever. And I think that, you know, when you understand it as like a mental illness that you really have to fight your way through, it's so much, it makes so much more sense why it's so difficult. It's not just a matter of, you know, well, eat three meals like that. Yeah. I mean, because it's really all about, it's not about the food as much as like it's about the fear it's about um control anxiety um it's really i would say

control is the main thing that it's about you know when when things seem like crazy around you you know that you can control what you put in your body you know you can control um how people see what you look like so you um you know i started to get and once you start succeeding at it and you see your body changing it gets a and with no one talking about it. Like you read the book. So there's that scene in Mexico where I'm eating the tuna, right? And I remember sitting there in that bathroom and saying, God, there's absolutely no one

in the world that I could tell about this, that I could, I'd be so embarrassed to talk to anyone, even my own husband about it. So that's it. I'm just alone with this. And unless I find the strength and figure out how to do this all. alone and recover from this alone, I'm just going to live with it forever. Yeah. Because you don't, it's very isolating.

And you talk. So after you joined the show, obviously that's when we all met you and got to know you through through that. It's an interesting juxtaposition because like you said, you felt so alone and you felt like there was, you know, no one in the world you could share that with. And then all of a sudden there are millions of people watching you. It's not just, you know, who you come in contact with in New Jersey. It's. So many people seeing you and people having strong, strong opinions about everything. What was it like that first, you know, year or two when you joined the show kind of having to balance what you had going on underneath the surface with this new world? Well, the show doesn't leave cameras at your house.

So I knew that I could figure out how to fool everyone. I would just save enough food to eat when the cameras were there. and I would just go home and starve. So I knew that I could pull it off in front of the cameras. Social media-wise, most of the comments weren't about my body. There was a few scenes where people used to be like, I think she has something going on, you know, but most of the comments were about my face,

about the way my lips move, that my lips move sideways. Oh, my entire first season, that was like the number one comment, always, like your lips move sideways. and people said I had a lisp. So I just concentrated on those things. Right. You're like, okay, like my hair looked messy. Yes.

Let's focus on that. The epically messy hair was season two. Oh, no, that was season three, the epically messy hair at the Jersey Shore. That was so bad. Some humid filming days. That's okay. That's all right. Right.

And then obviously, you know, eventually it became a topic on the show. What was it like kind of now? navigating before you had, like you said, made the decision to recover for real. What was that sort of period like where you were? While I had anorexia before I decided, before that moment where I was like, I have to stop. I held onto it so tightly. There was nothing you could say or do to make me change my mind about it. So if anything at all threatened my eating disorder, I immediately had stories on hand to tell.

I had excuses. I would save calories for those, you know, times alone so I could take a bite of something and be like, look, I'm eating it, you know. So I had things ready to go. There was nothing that was going to stop me. Nothing. I didn't care. I think so much of the time that we've seen you on the show, I like the way you kind of

approached that in the book because I think, obviously, there have been a lot of housewife books and, you know, some focus more or less on. the time that they've been on the show. But I think for you, it's like there is so much background to those years on the show before we saw you going through recovery on the show. And I think there are so many situations where knowing the full extent of it really changes the whole context. Right.

Like the breakfast where I ate the chips for breakfast. That might have seemed like a mindless decision. But that that scene was very intentional eating those. chips was very intentional and part of my plan. I mean, Dylan, I had a plan for everything. There was always a plan because anorexia, the way I had it, was so regimented that you couldn't do one thing off schedule, you know, because the food had to be so minimal and the exercise had to be so much that, you know, there's just a lot, there was a lot of rules. So to make sure I followed all the rules, there was just, you know, there was no flexibility. So I mean,

I wanted to take people behind what they saw and give them the full, like, mindset of what, what was going through my head during those times. Yeah. And the season, of course, the season that started with the rumor happening about Evan, knowing that you were kind of in this deep place of pain, that that was, you know, just an extenuating circumstance that kind of required then more control and more planning and more restricting. And not only that, but I.

I dealt with stress by restricting even more. So when I felt like I caused all that pain and I caused all of this stress to my family and the way that I dealt with anything was through food. I used food in horrible ways. So I was hardly eating by the time that season aired. By the time I was done airing, I was so thin. And it's hard to tell sometimes on camera. But if you look at pictures, you can see that I was much thinner when I started the next season.

And so I was in an unhealthy place already, but it really pushed me even further. I think it's interesting kind of to know the phases of how you've gone through this on the show. And I think hearing you talk about the season where you're, you had chosen to go into recovery. And we saw some of that on the show and that they kind of, there was the scene of you with your kids getting the ice cream, which I know was, you know, hugely important for you. And also for everybody watching it really kind of, you know,

was this like button on the storyline kind of. And I liked reading about how that was kind of how it worked on the show. And then your real work kind of began. Yeah. I mean, that's what, you know, reality shows. how they package things. And it's not, you know, Bravo did a phenomenal job with me. I have to say, they were so encouraging and anything that I needed to do. They really helped me. They really helped me through this process. They were great. But, you know, the way a storyline works is it's best when it

comes full circle. It has a beginning, middle, and end. And I think a lot of people thought that was the end. You know, Jackie was sick. Jackie got help and then Jackie ate ice cream, you know? And that, for me was when it really all started, you know, this whole recovery process because, I mean, at that point, I was, what, a month in, or like just a few weeks in. And then I went home from that ice cream scene and I just broke down. I didn't know how to eat something and not compensate for it and not count it, you know? So that was really hard for me. And it was now knowing from the book, it's even more full circle going all the way back. to your tasty delight.

Oh my God. What I did to myself, when I tell you, the things I did in the late 90s to lose weight were disgusting. Late 90s, early 2000s, I also was obsessed with this. You won't remember because you're too young, but it was called Olestra. And oh man, it was so disgusting. It had literally a warning on the bottom of the packaging with the anal leakage. The fat-free chips, right?

It's an oil that it like mimics an oil and it does. It doesn't, it doesn't, like, stay in your body. So you don't, it just slides on through. So, like, literally big anal leakage warning on the bottom. You were just sick to your freaking stomach, and I eat that thing in droves. It was like my dream come true, like calorie-free Doritos. I was sick to my stomach. But I would just eat anything that I could to lose weight,

and it just didn't work until I found anorexia. And then it just, it's amazing how quickly you can spy. Good sleep is everything. That's why Ali's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-D-N-E for both kiddos and grown-ups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help.

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And that was intentional. I assumed it was intentional. Can you talk a little bit about that decision and kind of more broadly how you chose to approach the mechanics, I guess, of your disorder? Which was difficult because I didn't want to give out any tips. That was number one. It's hard to write a book like this without, you know, listen, people are going to take what they want. from it, but I also didn't want people saying, oh, well, she's that weight, you know,

it's not a danger zone until I get to that weight. Or like, well, I weigh less than her. I'm like, I didn't want people looking at just the numbers and trying to find themselves in that story. Does that make sense? And plus, everybody's body is different. I am, I have a lot of muscle in my legs. So I might be a little more, weigh a little more, and somebody you think of, like, you know, how people used to look at Nicole Richie in the 90s and she was, like, teeny tiny. I think she probably weighed a lot less than me, even though we were the same size. So I didn't, it's so, you know, subjective.

So I didn't want to give out numbers, but, you know, it was a hard line to, like, write about this stuff without feeling like you're giving people tips, you know. Well, I think with so much of it is based on comparisons. And like you talk a lot about in the book about even when you were at your thinnest feeling like. Yeah, that's body dismore. That person's thinner than me. Or like I still feel like I'm not the thinest person in the room, even if you most likely are. And I think, you know, kind of stripping away some of the specifics maybe makes it a little bit harder to read the book and see like, okay, well, like, you know, like you said, comparing yourself is it's never going to be the healthy way.

Yeah, I mean, you know if you, I think, I think you know sometimes if you have a problem. You know, I think you have it in your head. You might not say it out loud. But if you're doing something that's a little too much, you probably have an idea of that. You know, so I feel like I didn't really need to get too specific. I feel like you know if you're going a little too far. One of the, one of the moments in the book that struck me the most was your story about when you got engaged to Evan and how that was kind of like a tainted memorandum. Marie, if you will. And I wrote down this quote that you said, like every happy day I've had since

2003, it's one that is stained by anorexia. My eating disorder was relentless and it gave me no days off. Looking back on happy times is like watching them unfold through a dirty window where I can see all the good stuff, but I also see the layer of grime on top. I was thinking about that. That's, you know, earlier in the book. And as I was reading the rest of it, it really stuck with me that all of these things that are, you know, happy milestones in life really just... They were under... They were all tainted, all of them. And it's not to say I didn't enjoy my life.

I've had a beautiful life, but all of it had, was controlled by anorexia. Every one of them. So do you feel like now that you've been, you know, in recovery and have been in a better place for a few years now. Do you feel like there's a process of kind of reclaiming those memories, or is it something that's tough still to look back on? They were very tough to look back on before I wrote the book. Now I feel, and before I recovered, I've only been recovered for a year and a half because it took me a while to get there. Actually, yeah, just a little over a year, because I'm Because it really wasn't until late summer last year that I was like, you know what?

I turned in a real corner once I stopped worrying about how people looked at me. You know, that was a lot for me. But I used to get really sad at all the things that I missed out on. And now I think they had a much bigger purpose because now I think this is going to, aside from wanting it to be like a fantastic well-received book, I really do hope that it helps people and that they find themselves in there. So I think all of those horrible moments that I had during these beautiful times, I hope that they have a much bigger purpose of helping people.

Yeah. And I think, I mean, like you said, you wouldn't have been able to write this book and have this perspective even, you know, a couple years ago. And that now you have all of this stuff that is still happening in your life. That's all of these positive things. And, you know, not 100. percent positive, you know, there's still going to be ups and downs, but that you can kind of appreciate it in a different way. Yes. And I can also, I know no matter what, I am not going to

deal with them through eating. Like, I don't come home from like a stressful event and say, now I'm not hungry. Like, I have no appetite. I don't do that anymore. My, my food intake and the way I eat and enjoy food is completely separate from stress. It's completely separate. from anything emotional. I really, really work hard at that. But I am still in therapy and with my dietitian

each once a week. Yeah. So now when you have a stressful filming experience your, I just go home and smash something. Maybe a little bit of that lately. Yeah. Well, I'm so excited for people

to get their hands on the book. And I also, I want to say, if you are not the biggest Jackie fan from the show, I still think it's really a worthwhile reading experience. Because, I mean, obviously, your story is much more than Housewives. I mean, it's not, I would say, wouldn't, wouldn't you agree, this is not a typical Housewife book? It's not a typical Housewives book, but I think even the parts of the book that are about your time on Housewives sort of shift the

perspective enough that when you're talking about something that happened with Teresa, it's not about Teresa. It's not about... Right. Yeah. No, I don't like badmouth anybody. I don't... I do tell the complete stories, though, of things that happened on the show. Yeah. And I think it's a really unique example of a book that kind of talks about stuff that has happened on the show, but not just in a... Now Let Me Gossip about my co-stars kind of way. I think it really adds something to the story. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I'm so excited. Thank you for reading it and thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. everybody go, you can get the weight of beautiful wherever you get your books. And congratulations, Jackie. Thank you. Thanks so much, everyone, for listening. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow

the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mentioned at all is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales, Pico, and Rebecca Sous McCat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico, social media by Dylan Hafer, guest booking by Dylan Hafer and Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars.

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