Mention It All - Pot Stirring 101 Ft. Sara Levine (RHOSLC Reunion)

Episode Date: February 28, 2022

Dylan is joined by Sara Levine, host of Not Another True Crime Podcast, to break down part one of the RHOSLC reunion. They begin by discussing Jen Shah’s puzzling response to her legal situation, and how they feel about Mary Cosby skipping the reunion. They also talk about Meredith’s strange affinity for Mary, and why Jennie’s reunion performance is so underwhelming. Later, they discuss the pot stirring of Whitney and Lisa, and how they could each be more effective. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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With Dylan Hafer. We'll go check me, Bill. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I am Dylan Hafer, and today I am so excited to be joined by one of my beloved co-workers, Sarah Levin. You know her from the Not Another True Crime podcast. Hi, Sarah.

Hello, thank you. What an intro. I'm so excited to be here. I feel like I've been wanting to come on this podcast like forever and ever. I know. It's been a while in the making. And I have been on your podcast, not another true crime, to talk about some of the Bravo legal drama in the past. And I know you have you and Danny, who's also been here, have done a few episodes on Bravo scandals and court cases and things like that.

Good times. And, you know, now we get to bring a little bit of that. flavor to this podcast because, of course, there's always legal drama going on in the Bravo sphere. And last night we had the first part of the Salt Lake reunion. And I feel like Andy kind of dipped his toes into talking to Jen Shaw about what's going on and was like, okay, we'll talk about it later. But I don't know. It's all, it's a lot. It's going to be also like, it's going to be so hard for me to not try to do like the Watch What Crapins voices. because I like that's the second right after I'm done watching the show I listen to it and so

I'm just thinking of them being like an Andy was like so Jen you are arrested for massive fraud yeah no we we like I break out the voices like now and then like I do love Elisa Barlow but um yes I like that we're I mean the whole thing with this season watching it is that Jen's legal issues are of the elephant in the room where it's not that we're not talking about it at all. We're acknowledging that it's happening. She's met with her lawyers on camera. But there's sort of this feeling of we're putting this off to the side and we'll kind of get to it later. And as Andy points out, that trial date's coming up soon. So, you know, later is about to be here. And just the whole thing of joking about, oh, like, are you going to wear that to your first day in court? And she's like,

I don't know, Andy. And it's like, What are we doing here? It's big yikes energy. I mean, I just really feel like I'm in the twilight zone with Jen holding on that she's innocent and everybody believing her. Yeah, I'm very... I'm very... This is not like a wrong place, wrong time or like a case of mistaken identity.

Like, the feds have audio recordings of a person who sounds a lot like you calling people about fake loans. I'm pretty sure I got one of those phone calls. I get a lot of spam calls. And so my voicemail box is always just full of nonsense about student loans and car payments. And I don't have a car or student loans actually. But it's another story. But imagine if you had a voicemail from Jen Shaw. Like, holy shit.

No, I think I did at one point. I just got a new phone. So I don't know if it's still there. No. But yeah, it's so strange. And I've seen some people having this narrative online of that it's hard to, watch these women trying to take Jen down. And it's like, the women aren't the ones taking Jen down. Like, she's been indicted. Like, I mean, you could make an argument that at some points,

maybe Meredith or Mary or somebody in the cast was not on Jen's side. I think that's fair. But when you have these federal charges that are, you're going to trial, there's a prison sentence at the end, potentially. That's not a product of somebody in your cast having a grudge on you. That's a product of a federal investigation. Yeah, I mean, I never understood the whole, like, I think the Meredith, like, allegedly tipping off the Fed's story is really about something else because, again, like, if the FBI is looking for you, they're going to find you regardless of your, where if your friend tells them where you are or not, like just. Yeah, I actually, I sort of liked seeing on the first part of this reunion, Meredith and Jen have a little bit of

moment with each other because this whole season, a few episodes into the season, we saw them have this apology moment. It seemed like maybe things were going to get a little bit better. And Meredith sort of said on this episode that she never really felt like they had that chance to start fresh because then Jenny was kind of playing this game of telephone. And I think probably everybody in the cast was kind of contributing to that talking about Meredith's intentions and there was just a lot going on. And I didn't necessarily expect at the reunion to see Meredith and Jen in somewhat of a good place. And I kind of liked that because I think Jen, as much as I think she probably is guilty of the fraud stuff, and as much as she has a wild temper that is

just out of control sometimes, when you have people on these shows that they're like, we've been friends for 10 years, it does kind of suck to see that just get flushed down the drain. And I do feel like there is still some shred of caring about each other there for Meredith and Jen. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I also thought the Brooks thing was dragged out for far, far too long. It's like, okay, he saw, let's be real. It's like, he saw your underwear. Like, we have to just move forward.

And Meredith just wouldn't stop being like, she's terrorizing my family. Yeah, that was definitely something where there was clearly more going on. behind the scenes and Meredith kind of brought it up a little bit at the reunion she got really emotional there was some stuff with her sister and with her nephew she said and it was after her father had passed away but yeah the whole thing with Brooks I actually enjoy Brooks more than a lot of people do I think he's funny I I don't know I'm not mad about him being on the show but I did think it was a little ridiculous how for like half a season it was like well I can't be friends with Jen because of what she did to my family. And it's like, I know. Yeah. It was like,

it was way too much. I mean, they might be in a good place, but I mean, I guess they are filming now, right? But otherwise, I don't think Jen is going to be filming for the whole season. It's really hard to know because they were spotted, I believe, in Arizona on a trip last week, the cast, like the five women minus Jenny that are at this reunion. And I had thought that Jen wasn't allowed to leave the state of Utah except to go to New York for legal reasons. Yeah, you'd think. Maybe she got like a... But Jen doesn't seem like...

Maybe she doesn't seem like she's listening to her lawyer's advice. I know, right? She does not seem to be like giving a fuck about what her lawyers think. So, yeah, it's A, she's literally on this show right now. It is just truly wild. And it's one thing that she stayed and finished out season two. You know, the contract was signed, I guess. But the fact that she's actively going back for more and I'm assuming is going to make her trial, you know, part of the storyline for season three, it's going to be great TV.

I can't wait to see it. But it does just kind of blow my mind the way in which she seems to think that this is all going to be just figured out at a later date. I know the delusion is really strong. Like I think Erica at least had some plausible deniability where Jen doesn't seem to have much, especially since Stewart pleaded guilty. It's kind of like, this is not looking good for you right now. I actually, the moment at the beginning where Andy's going around to each woman's dressing room, when he said to Jen, I just want to let you know that for the Beverly Hills reunion, we didn't give Erica any questions in advance. that was the rumor. I just want you to hear it for me.

That's not true. That was kind of strange to me because I feel like people act like Jed and Erica are in really similar situations. And while there are similarities between the two, they are not the same. And so I think the fact that it's being like, oh, like we treated Erica this way. So we're going to treat you the exact same. It's like, Erica, I have lots of, I have problems with Eric. She, you know, as much as I think she is a kind of a messy figure, she has not been charged with the crime.

She's not going to trial. She's, as far as we know at this point, there's no chance of her ending up in prison. And so it's like, I guess Andy wants to kind of put on a show maybe or, you know, obviously Erica was great for the ratings. But it's like, Jen is literally going on trial. Yeah, that seemed really fake. I will say with Erica, I know that some charges against her were dismissed. and I think Illinois, but I think they are planning to file in another state. So TBD, but it's definitely not the same.

Like, I feel like at, like, Erica wasn't, Erica benefited from Tom's embezzlement, but she wasn't the ringleader, as Jen may have been. Exactly. All new drinks are now at McDonald's, with refreshers like the strawberry watermelon refresher, and the mango pineapple refresher with popping boba to crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Try them all now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine. Copyright 2026, the Coca-Cola Company.

Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company. Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer viable. the best. Are you a festival fanatic? A deep end DJ, a road dog, or a trail mixer. Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit Red Bull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer. The biggest thing for, I still am just really sad that Mary Cosby did not show up for this reunion. Oh my God. It just, it makes me sad because first of all, I think Mary is an extremely entertaining person to have on TV.

But also, I just think there's a lot of answers and, you know, stuff that we're not going to really get to the bottom of with Mary not at this reunion. What was your thought about her not showing up and were you disappointed? The thing is, like, I actually can't stand to watch Mary because I feel like it's like watching a Ramona singer like times 10 in terms of like the bad gaslighting. So I kind of feel like we would have gotten a lot more drama and she and a lot more of her just like dismissing Whitney like time and time again. But I don't think we would have gotten anywhere because she kind of does what Meredith does and she just like refuses to engage in anything that doesn't paint her in a good light. But she's a lot more. I don't know. She she does it like in a very certain way that that again reminds me of Ramona, whereas Meredith just disengages.

but she just kind of goes on the offensive and like attacks. Right. Meredith kind of does the thing where she shuts down a little bit and she's, we're not talking about this. No, no, no. I'm not going to dignify this with a response. Whereas Mary sort of like you said does the gaslighting thing where you could literally show her a video of her saying something about you. And she's like, uh-uh, no, that's not I don't, you don't, we didn't.

And it's like. Exactly. And it's like, I'm watching it. my own eyes, like, you said this shit. Mary will never, like, admit to anything, I think is a thing. And, like, for me, there's not, there's so much out there on the internet, like the Daily Beast did a report. I don't think that there should be any question on, like, whether her church is, even if you don't think it's a cult, I definitely think it's predatory.

To me, there's no question. So I don't need to hear her, like, gaslighting PR spin. Yeah, I actually was a little bit disappointed that Whitney apologized for using the word predator. because that was one of those things where I felt like Mary kind of seized on that as a specific excuse to say, well, I was so disgusted by this. And that's why I'm not going to dignify the reunion with my presence. Whereas I think Whitney was basing that accusation off of some real information. And she didn't misspeak. I think it is a severe word, but based on the implication of what I'm,

actually happened. It seems appropriate. And it kind of reminded me of last season on Beverly Hills when there was the whole thing of Crystal said she felt violated by Sutton. And it was this whole thing of, I did not violate you. Like that is so dramatic and take it back. And that word is so blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, I understand why you feel, why you have a reaction to that word being used. But if you look up the definition, nobody said anything that wasn't true. Like, it's accurate in a textbook sense. So it's, to me, it's kind of the same thing where it's like, look, you don't have to like the words somebody else used to describe you, but they didn't make a mistake.

Exactly. Like the feeling is there and I feel like it applies. And I mean, I just don't get, Mary's exit was unceremonious and that is kind of a bummer because we probably won't see her on TV again. But I just don't get why any of these women like want to be friends with her. She's not nice. she's like one of the cruelest people I feel like that

I mean you know I'm sure a lot of that is like editing but I feel like she just comes across as extremely cruel and says things just like below the belt everything is done on her terms like every single friendship has to be on her terms and it's just like and I mean I'm like I don't even want to say this

because Jenny is her own like box Pandora's box of horribleness but like Mary has also said very horrible like intolerant things. So I'm just truly like, again, I'm in the twilight zone. Like, why do you, what hold does she have on you guys? Like, why do you give a shit about being friends with her?

Yeah. And I think everyone I've had on to talk about Salt Lake City, we've basically talked about how it's so hard to understand why Meredith has this attachment to Mary and why she keeps standing up for her. And it was really frustrating at this reunion that Mary. Meredith kind of backtracks on that without owning up to it saying, oh, I don't actually feel like I really rode that hard for her. I think maybe it came across that way, but I don't know if that was really what happened.

And, you know, I felt under attack by Jenny. So I felt like I had to be there. And it's like, okay, but every single person who watched this show uniformly had this reaction of what does Meredith see in Mary? because none of us are getting it. And it felt so deliberate on Meredith's part. And so to see her kind of deny that that was what really happened, it's like, but what? It's like you're only filmed getting lunch with one person and it's Mary.

So like explain that. Yeah. And I think like you were saying with Jenny, it's you never want to be, you don't want to be like sticking up for Jenny at this point. But it's like, yeah, Mary is kind of nasty. Like the things that she says and I cruel is like the exact right word for it that she just doesn't have that that moment of like maybe I shouldn't say this right now because it's not necessary. Like I could think it or I could say it to my friend later. You know, I could I could text the picture of the Lego figurine to my friend.

Oh my God. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I see this a lot on like the Bravo Housewives subreddit and it's like both things can be true. Like Jenny can be horrible and racist. like so can marry. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. So pointing out that one person has said horrible things doesn't all of a sudden absolve the other person. Yeah. As Jenny says,

everyone is capable of being racist. Yeah. Oh my God. She didn't think that was going to get turned back around on her. So I know. Wow. I that was like so just perfect in the worst way. But yeah, so going back to that Lego figurine comment, it seems like we're kind of- Oh, my God. We're back in the same place as we were at last season's reunion where Lisa and Heather and Whitney have a lot of shit between them. And it feels like it felt like toward the end of the season, Heather or Lisa and and Whitney were kind of in a better place with each other.

and, you know, Heather maybe was not having that many issues with Lisa. Now it feels like we're back at square one. And we're talking about, you know, talking behind their backs and this whole situation with Angie and the caterer. And I feel like Lisa is one of those people where I think she is, I really enjoy watching her as a housewife. I think she is one of those people who I don't know if they quite live in the real world. And so I don't know. it's hard to ever know if I fully agree with what she's saying or if I think she's right. But I think just like the way she communicates and the way she gets her points across is so.

It's just like, I don't know, it really makes me happy. I know what you mean. I'm feeling we got such an iconic hot mic moment from her. I will say, I don't know, I just feel like the first time I watched Whitney like sort of spin all these conspiracy theories. I was kind of like, it sounds crazy, but I do think that she's right. Like, I think that Lisa knows what she's doing. She seems like she is, like, smart in that way. And I'm kind of with Heather and Whitney when they're like, look, you just need to, like, own it.

Like, you're trying to sort of manipulate things and we can see what you're doing. I appreciated last night when Andy said show of hands, who thinks Lisa stirs the pot. Pretty much everyone except Jenny said yes. And even Whitney was like, I see Lisa stirring the pot and then I take the lead. So Whitney is even owning up to that she is a pot stir as well. She was, but she's not so good at it. Like when she was confronting Meredith, like when they're all wasted about the memorial thing, it's like, Whitney, this is not the time.

Yeah, I think in a way, Lisa is a little more skillful at stirring the pot. But I think I respect that Whitney really owns it. And she's like, yeah, it's being messy. That's where we're supposed to do here. Like, why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't I be? Whereas Lisa's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't say that.

You're narrating for me. Don't do that. I would never. I'm not calculated. You don't know what I'm doing. Like, Lisa. Right. It's a show.

Like, this is not real life. Just say that you're doing it. Right. Lisa spends a little too much time pretending not to know what she's doing. And it's like, no, it's fine. We don't, we don't, if you watch Housewives and you're angry that somebody is a pot stirer, maybe reevaluate because it's like, what do you want to watch? Yeah. Do you want there to be storylines?

Agree. Like, I think it's one of the reasons I love Ashley Darby so much is because she is so messy, but she is so open with the fact that she is just a potsterer. So. Right. Yeah. Whitney is the same. It takes a special kind of person to step one to stir the potter. in that way, but also to be kind of shameless about it and to kind of have fun with it.

And I think where Lisa kind of could step it up just a little bit is to kind of be a little more in on the joke, be a little more playful with it, have a little more fun. She takes herself really seriously. And I think- Oh my God. So do a lot of them. Yeah. I mean, that's like a, it's like the housewife syndrome is like believing your own bullshit a little too much. But I just think that Lisa could be an even better housewife if she was a little more

gleeful about being messy, whereas I think she wants to start the fire and then run away. And this whole situation with Angie and the caterer and all of that, it just to me feels like something that they care about within the group because they feel like they've been lied about or somebody is saying something wrong, but I don't know if anyone watching actually still gives a shit about what happened. I, like, barely remember what even happened, but I just, it's like hearing Lisa trying to be like, trying to, trying to deny she called Whitney and Angie inbred polygamy cousins. When we literally have it on tape, it's just like, well, now what do you have to say for

yourself? Yeah, so much happened this season that, and Angie, after this scenario happened, basically disappeared from the group. She didn't really stay on as a friend of. Obviously, they didn't invite her to the reunion, which feels, you know, intentional. I mean, yeah, she didn't really do much. I know. I kind of wish she would have been there just for this one segment to kind of clear up the question about the caterer. But it's like, Lisa's doing the most. She's giving Andy all these papers. She's like, here's the whole timeline. Here's the text. Here's the receipts. Here's the answers. You'll see. And even Andy, I feel like is kind of like, okay. Like, I don't actually. It's enough. I was.

thinking that about just receipts in general between like Monique and her binder and stuff like it's just too much like just we need to have a moratorium on materials I think at these reunions unless it's really a bombshell I'm not the FBI I'm not going to go through your phone records exactly I think

housewives sometimes in the receipts department have this feeling that more is more and they're like I'm going to go into the reunion having all of my ducks in a row so that any possible thing somebody could come for me, I'm going to have the proper receipt to whip out. And it just doesn't land.

And I think part of it is just the fact that we're watching a TV show where it's this set of seven women and Andy sitting on these couches. We're not looking at the papers. You know, maybe Andy could look at the papers and say, okay, it looks like you're right. But for me, that's not compelling because I just want you to argue. Right. Although Andy doesn't care. Like, he just not.

This is not a court of law. This is not, nobody's making a judgment at the end. I think sometimes these women treat it a little bit too seriously in that sense that it's like, if you prove your right, all you get is the satisfaction of being proved right. Like you're not going to get a raise for next season because you brought good receipts to the reunion. Nobody cares. Right, for sure. It's a little too much. This episode is brought to you by Prime.

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Grill up a dog, add classic yellow mustard, or loaded chicago. Chicago style. We all know it's not a cookout without Oscar Meyer and Heinz. What do you think, this is random, what do you think about giving used gifts? Because if we, we hear that do we maybe give Seth some used golf balls? I'm really confused about that because it's like, I don't know, that's either very true or it's not, there's really no in between. And then with the whole thing with Mary, I mean, I don't know, I could see, I think Jenny, just like, I think the thing with Jenny and Mary is like they just don't like each other. So it doesn't really matter what they do. Someone's going to take an issue. I feel like Mary had,

what was it like, Lubiton? She just like had them in her house and I guess never wore them because she has so much church money that, you know, whatever. And so I don't think like she went out and purchased a gift for Jenny, but I don't know. If one of my friends was like, hey, I have this designer bag that I've never used. Like do you want it? I'd be like, hell yeah. Yeah, I feel like golf balls and lupitons are not really comparable. No, if the golf balls are used, you can tell. Like, I mean, and these people clearly have money. So it's like you can go to Models or whatever. Like, how much is a golf ball, Michael, $10? Oh, I have no idea.

How much is a golf ball? Do you buy them in like a big pack? I don't think it's a big pack. I think you can get like maybe three or six or something like that. Oh, okay. I mean, I don't know. I feel like it's not that serious. But if Dewey did that, he's his own brand of like.

Like, wow, I hate that man. So I wouldn't put much past him. The whole, I mean, we're, I guess we're never really going to get into it that much because Lisa or Jenny is not going to be on the show next season. But that that family is just a strange dynamic. And hearing that Dewey gave Lisa's son an adjustment when he was, what, two months old? I'm like, what's going on? Yeah. What did that mean? Like a chiroprice.

Like a chiroprice. He's a chiropractor. Oh, that's weird. I missed that. Like, do babies have? Are babies like, I don't know. It can't be. That's bizarre.

I mean, also, like, are they going to address Jenny's post at the reunion? Because I feel like this whole Mary stuff was, it almost felt moot because there's a huge elephant in the room. Yeah. So they said the, like, thing flashed on the screen at the beginning saying that they filmed it before the posts, like, went viral. So I don't think they're not going to address it on the reunion couches. there was a rumor that they were maybe going to do a scene at the end where the women met and were like here after it had come up.

But that might be for season three. Like it's unclear kind of, they filmed something right after the posts were like resurfaced. But I don't know if we're going to see any of that on the reunion. And I agree anything Jenny related kind of falls flat because we not only do we know that she sucks as a person. But we also just in a show context, we know that she's not coming back. So it's like, I don't really care how well she's getting along with Meredith. I don't really care what the status of her and Lisa's friendship is. And, you know, on top of that, her biggest drama this season was with Mary, who A, is not at the reunion.

B is not going to be on next season. So there's a part of me that's like, oh, I wish Mary was at the reunion so we could see her and Jenny hash out their issues. But then it's like, but also neither of them are. coming back next season. I don't want either of them to sort of come out on top. And so it does kind of feel like, I mean, I would have liked to see some resolution, but also what's the point? Agreed. I don't know. I think the risk is high that either one of them would say something offensive. It's kind of like perhaps we don't need that under our screens right now. Yeah. And Jenny addressing questions about using a black scent, it's just like, I feel.

feel like nobody in this room is equipped to talk about any of this. It just was, uh, the amount of times she has used being from Long Beach as an excuse at this point. Because in her, um, the Instagram live that she did after she got fired. Oh my God. That was horrifying. Yeah, that was another time when she brought up. She was like, I'm from Long Beach. I, I, I, and it's like, okay, great. Like, I, maybe that gives some context, but also like anybody from any, can still be problematic as hell. And it's not. Yeah, I mean, I will say like the one I think grace I give to Meredith is like I kind of

read that she had posted something or replied to a comment and basically like Mary kind of always felt that Jenny was being like racist towards her and making these like digs or. And so given that context, I can like see why Meredith would be protective of her. But, yeah, to me, the thing with Meredith and Mary, it's not so much that I thought Meredith should have, like, dumped Mary in a ditch and never spoken to her again. It just was more of a thing of it didn't feel like she was being objective of when she, when something could be criticized. You know, like Mary was saying some things that were pretty objectively not cool or, you know, outright offensive. and it felt like Meredith kind of had these blinders on for when Mary was doing this stuff. And, you know, that came up at the Zion trip when it was like, oh, you know, it really felt like you could have been a little more,

you could have said something, been supportive. And it felt like Meredith wasn't really willing to engage with the other women when the topic of her friendship with Mary came up. But I do think that what you're saying about how Mary felt kind of like she was on this island of, you know, know, she's the only black woman in the cast. There are other women of color, but being a black woman is a unique experience in and of itself. And that I could see if she and Meredith had talked about that, that that would be something that she kind of felt like she needed to, you know, stand with her a little bit. And I do respect that up to a point. Right.

To a point, I can, I can totally see that Mary was probably like smelling what Jenny was cooking, so to speak. So I can definitely see that, you know. Damn. Mary and Jenny is just, I kind of want to see them like mud wrestle in the back or something. Like, I don't. Reminded me a Whitney's like bizarre sex scene that I was like, first of all, what the fuck are we doing? And why is this on my TV? Like, please fucking stop. And why are you reminding me about it right now, Sarah?

Sorry. It's in my head. So it's going to be in yours too. I'm sorry I told people and I'm sorry I'm bringing it up again now. Exactly. Yeah, no, I am excited, I will say, to see the husbands come out because, first of all, I need to know what the fuck Sharif is going to say because... Sharif, I'm like, seriously, he... Oh, my God.

I'm like, what, like, I don't know, mystical spell, I feel like, does Jen have on this man? Because he comes across as, like, first of all, very, very kind and sweet and seemingly logical. But, oh, my God. I mean, he is a true rider to die, so I'll give him that. But I don't know that I could say the same if I was in his position. Right. Like, season one, we were all like, wow, Sharif is so understanding of his wife's temper. Yeah.

And then add to that the fact that she's allegedly a fucking criminal who's going to go to prison. And he's still like, love you, babe. We'll get through this together. And it's like, oh, my God. I know. I'm like, I need to find a Sharif. But like, but wow. Like, I would say I need to find a Sharif, but also, I don't feel like I'm a Jen, so I shouldn't need a Sharif.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I just need someone, like, just normal is good. Yeah. Yeah. No, you don't have to stand by me if I get indicted because hopefully that won't happen. Exactly. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for joining me today to talk about this reunion.

Tell everyone where they can follow you, listen to you, all of that good stuff. Thank you so much. So you can listen to me. and Danny Murphy talk about true crime on the Not Another True Crime podcast. And you can follow me on Instagram at Sarah LaMeme. Sarah LaMeme. It rolls off the tongue. Thank you.

Thanks everyone for listening. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow the show so you never miss an episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mention It All is produced by Sean Kilby and Jorge Morales Pico. Editing by Sean Kilby. Social media by Dylan Hafer.

Guest booking by Nicole Pellegrino. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th. The powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 7th. and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamava Theater.com, only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You in? Must be 21 to enter.

Betches.