Mention It All - Publicist Leaks & Faye Resnick Speaks Ft. Taylor Jackson (RHOBH Finale, RHOSLC)

Episode Date: October 6, 2022

Dylan sits down with Taylor Jackson for a jam-packed double Housewives recap, starting with the explosive RHOBH finale. They discuss Rinna’s fumbling of the Kathy Hilton bag, and whether they believe that the leaks are an Erika coverup. Next, they talk through RHOSLC, where the small cast actually seems like a good thing. They have lots of thoughts on Meredith’s dynamic with Lisa, and why a shaman is always necessary on a Housewives trip. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So good, so good, so good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom Rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince, Sam Edelman, Frame and Free People. Join the Norty Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Betches Media presents.

Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, boo. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mentioned All podcast. I am Dylan Hafer, and I am joined today in the studio by my good pal and fellow Bravo

watcher. I don't know where I'm going with that, but Taylor Jackson. I'm back, guys. I'm a regular. You know me. You love me. No, I'm kidding. Taylor was joking before we came on the air.

Well, joking. who knows that she's now paying me to come on the show. Yep. And I'm calling it. Like, you know how people say invest in yourself. I'm investing in myself. Like, you know, paying to be able to get my name out there. Mm-hmm.

You know, build a brand for myself. I feel like there are people who would have paid to be on Housewives in the past. That's true. People probably still do pay to be on Housewives in the past. Like Diana Jenkins probably pays because she's money's nothing to her. Yeah. I don't know. People certainly spend money to be on Housewives.

Maybe they, maybe they're not. paying Bravo, but like, you know, people are staying in houses. They can't really, they're renting houses. They can't really afford. They're throwing lavish parties to have something going on on camera. People go into debt to be on Housewives, which is crazy. Yeah, I mean, but it makes sense. And you know who else probably pays? It was like Vanderpompe back in the day. They were shelling out their waitress money just to get a few seconds on air. And now you go into debt to come on. Now I'm in debt. Half of my paycheck is going to be on this show. So please download, subscribe listen and if you if you feel like throwing at tayla jackson a follow tayla jackson two ends tayla t a y l a

jacson you know i was i was thinking so kathy hilton posted last night she was hanging out with latoya jackson um and letoya posted on twitter she's like i love kathy i've known her since grade school she's never she's never had a temper i just don't believe she would do something like that i was thinking you're like letela jackson and you're kathy hilton we're hanging out. Have I ever had a temper with you? Well, it would be me. That's what I'm saying. Have I? Oh, you have the temper. I'm Kathy Hilton. Right. Yeah, yeah. I'm all mixed up. The thing is, okay, the funny thing with Kathy is that it's like, I don't believe she's never had a temper, but at the same time, I don't really care. I don't care. I'm not mad that Kathy Hilton is maybe kind of a bitch sometimes,

or as they talk about on this week's episode, an asshole. That's. That's fine. That's cool. You all are assholes. You just choose to show it, you know? Kathy's whole like facade, you know, she's like the ditsy fun, like, you know, gifts on, keeps on giving from last season. Everyone was calling her that.

And she just doesn't want to be come across as a bitch. And yes, she freaked out. And that's okay. Yeah. I think this week, the last few weeks, it's kind of been a progression of Rina pushing this narrative about what happened in Aspen. And it's sort of this progressive. falling flat more and more and more and more.

And this week, it really does kind of reach a point where it's like, Kyle is begging you to just drop it and to not keep causing issues. And Rina is really just sitting there and she's like, okay. But the thing is, you know, you can't sweep it under the rug. And it's like, she is literally saying all I want to do is sweep it under the rug. Please leave my family alone. And she's like, yeah, the thing is, Kyle, I'm not going to be able to do that. No, yeah.

And she's like, were you there? were you there Erica? Were you there? We get it. You were the only one that's solid. And now it's a whole game of do you believe Kathy? Do you believe Renna? But it's a whole game.

I don't give a fuck. I don't care. Right. And I think Renna's biggest miscalculation is that she thinks the truth will set her free. She's the one that knows the truth about what happened in Aspen. And it's her life's work to spread this, whether it's through Erica's publicist or whoever happens to be, you know, listening. And watching the show, it's like, no, that's not actually my biggest concern.

What really happened? You locking yourself in your room and her pounding on the walls. That fucking sent me. Why is she? Kathy Elton, okay? Why is Lisa Renott locking, like bolting up the door? Was Kathy going to knock the door in? Like, what's going to?

They're going to get a full brawl. Right. And the, the thing of. She's so focused on making sure everybody knows how horrible it was. But at the same time, she doesn't want to say the specifics of everything that Kathy said because it could be too hurtful. And it could be too damaging. And it's like, I understand if there's one specific comment you don't want to be out there or you're trying to protect somebody.

That's understandable. But then maybe you just need to drop it a little bit because if you're not going to produce the receipts, then it's always going to fall flat when you're saying it. And when Kyle's like, can you just not? And she's like, the thing is, if I don't speak this truth, I will literally die. Because it will eat at my soul. And it will spoil me rotten from the inside. And it's like, ma'am.

Ma'am. This is a Grace Kelly Diamond's party. Exactly. And what did Garcell say she's like, oh, days of our lives again. lives again, like literally. And again, I've said this. Every time I come on, I say, this comes up somehow because it keeps happening.

It's another Lisa Renna narrative that's just falling flat. It's another plot that she's trying to like make and make a thing and everyone is just not on board. Because who cares? You know? It's just, and I think this might be one of those things where it's like,

you know how there's rumors, or I don't even know if she's going to come back next year, next season. or whatever. But like this could have been like the tip of the iceberg where it's like, Lisa, this isn't real. Like it's not, it's falling flat. I think the most interesting aspect of that is that for the last couple seasons, we've talked so much about this Fox Force five thing that's been going on in the group. And in this instance, it really is just Erica and Lisa that are together in this thing about what happened in Aspen. And I think, I mean, Kyle obviously doesn't want to be having this conversation.

She's not on board with what Rina is doing. I think Doreet is kind of indifferent, kind of caught in the crosshairs maybe, but also it feels like she has to be a good friend to Kyle on a certain level. Diana's not really barely exists anymore. She's just like, yeah, no. And then obviously Crystal and Sutton and Garcell kind of have, you know, less. positive feelings about the situation. Of course.

Crystal believes Kathy. And so I love that. It is kind of, it does feel like all of a sudden this might be the crack in that Fox Force that we've been waiting for. And it does make it really interesting going into the reunion and into next season. It's like, oh, are we entering a new era of this group that could potentially not include Lisa Rina, but even if it does? it would be a separation of this click that we've had the last few seasons.

Which I'm down for that. I think that would make things interesting. But then again, you do have Lisa Rana making things, like trying to make things an issue when they're not. And that could just get annoying like we're doing right now, talking about the whole, you know,

Kathy thing and her not dropping it. It's like, just drop it. But, I mean, I just, I honestly feel sorry for Kyle because she's watched this same exact thing happen for,

like seasons and seasons and seasons. seasons with Kim. And, like, she knows what the outcome's going to be if this continues on. And she's like, listen, let's just fucking drop it. And Renna, honestly, it's, it's like the instigator that, like, nobody wants there. Like, you know how we do love an instigator on Housewives, obviously, because it keeps the plot going. But this is, like, it's like giving me the ick, almost.

Yeah. And at the beginning of the episode, Garcel is having her Berkinson Bubbles party, which Invite me, please. Invite me, please, but also, like, I wouldn't be able to buy anything. No, I know. And you can't even tug. Remember the gloves? Like, everyone's wearing gloves?

I love that they're all wearing gloves. And the second Kyle walks in, she's like running around chasing Sutton because she has the bag she wants. It's like, sit down. You're going to get, Christos is not going to let you touch it or whatever his name is. But at this party, which this is like a nice afternoon. Everybody's in a good mood. She's giving high tea. They're having their chicken and waffles, which looks delicious.

Everybody's just there to have a good time to catch up a little bit. and Kyle is filling in Garcel and what happened at her house that Kathy apologized and Renna was there and then Garcel asks Rina in front of the group she's like oh so Kathy apologize to you and watching Rina have to sort of craft in her mind why she can't just move on she's like well you know

it was the apolli the apology. It was a good thing to have happened. But did you know that I had to lock myself in my room? And this, that the lips, she goes, were you there? None of you were there. I was, I was shook.

I was shook. And it's like you said, remember? And then they did the whole like montage of her saying, I was shook. It shook me to my core. You've never seen a bitch. You never seen a bitch have a lash out. Come on.

Also, she's acting like she's dropping this bombshell that she had to lock her. herself in her room when she said it no less than four times since they got back from Aspen like a week ago. Yeah. She's like, hmm, I wonder, do you know how bad it was? Do you know that I locked myself in my room? I was, I was shook. Like, my thing is like, I get like, okay, in a rage and people get angry and like, but it's

cat, like, what force could she have done to get through this door? And what she has an umbrella? She's like. The shining with the ax in the door. I'm thinking like horror film. I'm like, Lisa, this is not. not cast in like some sort of horror show. It's Kathy Hilton.

Apparently, who knows, coming at you after you. Right, but Taylor, did you know that she had to lock herself in her room? Oh my God, really? Mm-hmm. She was that shook? And did you know that nobody else was there? No one else is there? So Sutton, pipe down, shiree, uh-uh.

Crystal, you? Mm-mm. She had to lock herself in her room. Oh, my God. I didn't know that. If I knew that, it's a whole different narrative. Right. And it's like everybody in the group has acknowledged that they weren't there.

They don't know 100% of what happened. I don't. And the thing is like, everyone's like, I know I wasn't there. What happened? And Lisa's like, you weren't there. Did you know? You know what I mean? It's like, fucking tell us.

She's like, it was, it was bad. Yeah. And she, in the interviews, like things in the whatever, she'll be like, she'll slowly give us information, like what Kathy said about Doree, which I, I, I laughed out loud just because it was like, she's a dumb idiot, which is like so not true and it's mean, but it's just like, okay, it was kind of funny. Yeah. You know. But like if you're going to say that, let it all air out.

You told us what she said about Kyle. Right. And then. What else is there? Right. And then moving into the second half of the episode, Kyle's having her charity dinner thing. Rina and Erica are going in the car together. They look great, by the way.

Everyone at the. Everybody, everybody. But like, Rina in that blue Balenciaga looks. with the half up high pony. I mean, like, she looks great. She looks great. Like, I saw, where props are, yeah. Exactly.

I saw what you, um, put on Bravo Instagram. Why do they all look like fucking messes at the reunion? But every single filming event during the season, it's tens across the board. It's got to be on purpose. It has got to be on purpose. Because I, every look there at Kyle's party, uh, the diamond party. I was like love, love. Doree killed it.

And I expected her to kill it at the, she looked for the reunion look. She looked like she walked into the, the wet seal and took everything off clearance and said, this is it. DeRite. Doree. Somebody on Twitter, I wish I, I don't remember who tweeted it, but it was very funny. They tweeted that Doreet looks like she's one, like, one version away from doing a shift at Sir in like 2010.

Holy fuck. She looks like Sheena. And they did a side by side with the napkin dress that they used to wear. And it's not that different. It's not that different. You're so right. Put like a bandana print on that dress and she'd be at Sir. Right.

And then I was also thinking as I'm watching last night. It's like, first of all, they all look amazing and they all, but they spend obviously hours getting ready, hours. And how long were they at this dinner party? Because to me, I know things are cut when you're watching it. It seemed like, I want to say, an hour tops of their time. And I'm like, then you just go and take off all that makeup and tip. What? And you won't do that for the four hour reunion?

I guess they did do that for the four hour. The reunion looks are puzzling. Tons. Kyle has like the backpack straps around her shoulders. And my girl Garcell, I'm obsessed with her. I'm obsessed with her. It's the boots. She didn't need the boots.

Yeah, I don't mind Garcell's look as much. I don't think it's her best. Yeah, because I love everything she does. Like fashion-wise or whatever. And then this, I was like, we could have done without the boots. But Derreet, come on, she really dropped the ball. Yeah, Derrete usually, usually. Serves.

She's always going for something. maybe she was going for sir maybe she's going vintage sir bravo look you know andy andy can i can i say something i think that in a different lifetime i would have been an excellent waitress at sir and then maybe lisa vanderpupapult would have taken that's so good you really fucking just Can I just say something? Can I, please. Are you bored? P.K.

Jaggy was telling me that I would have been an excellent waitress. Maybe you know what, who knows? That could have been her in his boat. We don't know. Right. But so the big narrative coming into this finale party is that things have been a leaking. Things have been leaking. And that for some reason, there's whispers.

and facts and details out there about the Aspen trip, about other stuff that's happened in the season that isn't the type of information that people should know while the show is filming. And I mean, I guess, I feel like to a certain extent, this always happens. And sometimes there are more details than other times. But like, to me, it doesn't feel super shocking

that somebody's taught, that there are like, details about the Aspen trip. This time maybe was a little more detailed than some things we've had in the past. Yeah. But I do, I think it's interesting the level that there were like blogs talking about it and podcasts. I don't know why they didn't like feature us.

I'm pretty sure we talked about it. But there were no real like news articles. And Kyle is saying this is because basically Kathy had found out. about these stories and got lawyers involved. So there's kind of this weird, like, jumble of stuff going on. But then Erica and Rina are acting like, well, there haven't been any news articles about it. So that means nobody was leaking. And it's like, right, but we read all about it on some blog.

And the information is still there. Exactly. I don't. And then when Kyle was saying, like, the leaks were coming literally that like even from the day at erika's hair party like there was inside information and the only people there were people that work with them yeah mostly work with erika and the girls so it's like um and what kathy like what are your not kathes sorry kyle what are your thoughts of when kathy i'm kyle geez um was saying that like

Erica, like, because it came from her team, so say, like, apparently, that to take the attention off of Erica and put it more on Kathy. I think that's an interesting theory. I don't necessarily think that that is the full in, whoever's leaking, whatever, I don't necessarily think it is so direct like that, that it's like, Erica is getting too much attention and we want her to be getting less attention. So we are going to leak this story about Kathy Hilton. But I do think there might be kind of that sentiment at play that it's like Erica's been

dragged through the mud over the past couple seasons. And she's openly said in the group that if she's getting this much heat for stuff that she has or maybe hasn't even done some of it, that everybody else should have to be accountable for their actions too. So I think there is that idea makes sense, even if it's not. the root cause of what's happening. Yeah. But I also think the idea that this leak might be coming from Erica's publicist or someone

else on her team, I don't know. I mean, it doesn't sound that far fetched to me. No, it makes sense. It sounds like a, it sounds like a very strategic and common PR move. And the way I think that Rina is kind of soldiering up immediately for Erica without even hesitating or asking a question, that almost makes it feel more calculated. because it's like if you were being everybody else in the group, when Kyle throws out that it was Erica's publicist,

allegedly, everybody else in the group seems to be sort of shocked by this. And the fact that Rinah doesn't even flinch. And when she's so shook about... So shook. When she's shook about everything else, she's like, why would you say that about Erica's publicist?

And it's like, there's not even like a millisecond in your mind where you're like, I'm hearing this for the first time. I'm processing it. I'm deciding whether or not I think it's true or whether I want to question it. And maybe the decision is no, but it doesn't really feel like she is at all surprised to be hearing that in the moment. And I think that's the more interesting thing. Exactly.

And as you said earlier, we see them being quite closer and buddy, buddy. I mean, they came to that party together. You know, you don't really know the conversations that they're having behind, you know, behind the camera. The montage of them trying on their diamonds With the prices flashing across the screen While out in the backyard they're talking about them That is some brilliant editing Disney villain type of shit

Where it's like Erica's diamond earrings Have been a whole storyline this season And then we see her trying on another $300,000 worth of diamonds No I was thinking the same thing about the editing of like The Housewives I think they do a phenomenal job especially on the finale episodes, because at the end, when they give the recap

of what everyone's, like, and with Erica's, they wrote the $730,000, like, $1.3,000 year, ding! Slash 1.3 million. And she goes in there, 1.3 million. And it's just like...

There 1.3. Yeah. Or, like, the picture of Garcell's book and, like, the trash from Erica. They're like, it hit the chart. It did so well. And some people, da, da, da, da, da. And they just...

It's crazy. The book thing feels like it was 75 years ago. And it was after they finished filming this season. So that could be a whole segment at the reunion and it wasn't even on this season. And it feels like so much has happened since then. And not to mention all the stuff on social media, the bot attacks, that already feels like it was months and months ago.

There is really a lot of stuff to get through at this reunion. I'm glad to see that Kathy is there. Yes. I was nervous about that. I know. Well, I think she has to be to defend herself because, you know, this is all. Ren is going to talk about. Right.

But I think watching the trailers for the season and hearing what we had heard about Aspen and the aftermath, I was kind of thinking once the Aspen meltdown happened that we were never going to see Kathy again. Yeah. And so the fact that she's showed up to film a couple things and we know she went to the reunion, I don't think she looks as bad at the end of the season as we thought she might. Well, in the beginning when they were teasing the Aspen thing and the texts were coming through and it's the end of that at first.

I'm like, holy shit. Like, this is legit. Like, I had the same felt like, we're never seeing Kathy again. Yeah. You know? And then, like, honestly, Rina kind of, like, fucked it up. Like, I feel like she could have, she could have maybe, like, won this. You know what I mean?

Yeah. It almost, yeah, it almost feels like she. She changed the narrative in a bad way. She had a good hand of cards and she played them wrong. Yeah. And I think she's gotten away with it more in past seasons. But I think going in. to this reunion if the only person that really is riding for her is Erica.

Yeah. I mean. Oh. It's not where I would want to be. Godspeed. Speaking of people, uh, being, popping in and being critical. Did you love that Faye Resnick moment?

We got it. When it, when it, when they're talking at the party, it was like before. We've not seen, we've not seen Faye all season. I don't think. She certainly hasn't been any kind of friend of or whatever. Kyle's friend. And then when Erica's like, well, there's plenty of people that hate Kathy Hilton. And you just hear from the corner of the room, well, why?

She's a nice girl. And then it's a easy. And then Rina's like, well, you don't have to take down Erica Jane. Kathy can take down herself. But she's like, no, she won't. And Faye doesn't even have a microphone on. They have to subtitle what she's saying. I'm like, God, I...

We miss the cameos. I love Faye. And I don't know why, if... there were only like 10 people in the room where they were talking about this. I'm like, just throw a mic on. Come on. Just toss a mic on her. I'm sure she had even better one-liner. And that is such a thing I would like to explore more because there is that kind of Hilton, Jenner, Richards, Resnick friend group. And I think we've always talked about kind of as like a funny thing like, oh, what if Chris Jenner came on Beverly Hills? I mean, she's like,

she's popped up at an event or two, but that it's like that's the real kind of, if you were, yeah, like Kyle, Kathy, Faye, Chris,

this whole group. I would adore that. I would adore that. And I mean, clearly Faye has decided at some point that Housewives isn't really her thing. Yeah. But it's like,

I do love to see her. Yeah. It's a nice little surprise here and there. Another thing with the Kardashian thing is like, again, Lisa Rana. It's just like she tries, she's my friend Kendall Jenner, you know, the whole thing going that she tried to look like Cloudo Kardashian, like whatever. And then she, you know, was talking about Chris, Chris Jenner.

She mentioned her with the whole Kathy thing. And then I think Chris came out and was like defending Kathy. Yeah, Chris commented like heart emojis on one of Kathy's Instagram posts. And it is just funny because I'm not saying Lisa Rina has no relationship with the Kardashians. Like, yeah, they all run in the same circles. They're all reality. TV. They're all influencers. I'm sure they're sending each other, their products and all of that stuff.

But it's like, Kathy Hilton and Chris Jenner are like... Two different playing fields, babe. They go back. Yeah. They're going to choose each other. Yeah. Wait, you mean Chris and Kathy? I don't know what I said.

Did he say that? Chris and Kathy? Sure. I don't know. I thought you said Lisa. I don't know. I don't think, yeah. It's all these like four letter names that I'm just like...

But like, I don't even feel like Kendall Jenner, probably fucks with Delilah and Amelia. I don't think so either. Amelia walked in the Balenciaga show. Congratulations to her. She did. And Lisa was there. I know.

I feel like if I was a model, I would not actually want my mom at all my shows. I wouldn't. Well, I saw something on the card. I was off topic, but Kardashians, Kendall was like, I hate when my mom watches me. Well, especially because when your mom is that famous, it's always going to be a thing. Yeah. Like, when Kendall Jenner is walking the Valentino.

Couture show. She's just like a model in the show. Exactly. It's not your, it's not your big event. It's not your party that you're hosting. Yeah. You're being hired to present. It's her job, essentially.

And so I feel like it's weird when it's like front row like, yes, baby. Bad Mama. Like it's not the vibe. It's not the vibe. Like Anna Wintour is sitting over there. Right. And Lisa Renekana kind of also like this type of thing like she likes to make it about it.

Right. Like Lisa, it's more embarrassing. when it's Lisa Rana. Just automatically. Just automatic. Exactly. But congrats to Amelia. She seems to be doing well.

Yeah, I mean. I like to see that for her. She's not what's got anymore. Love that. Yeah. Okay. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes.

Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. and you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat.

It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the strawberry watermelon refresher and the mango pineapple refresher with popping boba to crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foes. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire?

Try them all now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine. Copyright 2026, the Coca-Cola Company. Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company. Should we talk about Salt Lake City? Let's talk about Salt Lake City. This episode was, this episode, from going from the finale of Beverly Hills straight into this, like this almost felt like a finale episode of Salt Lake City because the drama is there.

What I liked about this episode of Salt Lake City is that, It wasn't particularly explosive. No. It wasn't particularly over the top dramatic or like there wasn't any big fight. There wasn't any big real event. But it felt like so much. So much is kind of bubbling below the surface. And we're really laying a lot of groundwork for the group dynamic this season.

And then on top of that, of course, the stuff with Whitney is. so intense. So intense. And that scene with Justin, I mean, I know we had it. Oh my God. We've seen a little bit, you know, in the previews and stuff, we knew that she was going to be kind of working through some stuff this season. Yeah. But that scene with Justin really came out of nowhere and was.

Oh, my God. So tough to watch and so heartbreaking. Oh, my God. Just to watch somebody who is, I was going to say in her 40s. Maybe Whitney's in her 30s. But she looks good. Whatever. to watch somebody that's her age really starting to grapple for the first time with things that happened to her in her childhood and things that she not only has been it's not just that she hasn't been has like put off dealing with them but she literally has not remembered that they happened to her because of how traumatic it was yeah watching that happen is so hard oh i get the chills like in a bad way obviously yeah and watching just in

kind of handle her with such care. Right. In that situation, it really is the kind of thing where when it happens on these shows, it's like, damn, it feels like something important is happening here. And I'm so glad that she's able to show it. Yeah. You know, because it really, it like adds depth to like this. You know what I mean?

It makes things feel more like real essentially. Yeah. Because you see these people go, like, I mean, it's awful. It's terrible. And like, during this episode, I literally. literally felt like I was going through all, every emotion. Because like the first, like the first few scenes and when Meredith and Whitney are talking were getting all the juice about like the Lisa stuff, I was like, and then it kind of cuts into

this, this scene. And I'm like, holy fuck. Right. Whitney's, Whitney's arc this episode going from like. So I heard she slapped with the guy to get Vita in his whatever to invest. Which is like, during my last session with Megan, my energy hiller, she was. telling me, she's telling me that Lisa is not always a good friend, but I also heard that she did the favors for the Vita. And then the next scene is like full on devastation. Devastation.

I mean, I love a girl that gives us both. Range. We love range, baby. That's what I'm saying. During my last session with Megan, my energy hiller. But then also then contrast that really devastating of Whitney and Justin with the scene of Jen and her mom. Oh, yeah. And I feel devastation for Jen's mom and for Jen's kids. But watching this kind of mental gymnastics that Jen is doing of performing innocent woman done wrong when we just know what's coming down the pipeline in a few months and the fact that she has now admitted to. some or all of this stuff.

It is so bizarre to why. Because it feels like it feels like you're watching true crime in real time. Exactly. And we don't usually get usually when you're watching a true crime show. You don't know until the end. It's like somebody talking 50 years later about well, like I knew Jen and she seemed normal. But watching her go through this performance. And I mean, I believe that she's in a dark place.

Like I believe that she has been struggling. For sure. Well, she's also, like, we know she's making, she's like putting on this performance of being like the innocent, you know, whatever. Yeah. Victim, honestly. But she's probably internally like, fuck, like, I know I did this. And like, I know, I don't know how much longer I can, I can perform. Right.

So, like, that's probably why we're seeing this, like. Right. But seeing her talk about how every day she's being bullied online and that she's so innocent and people just don't understand. It's kind of like. Girl. And to know that... We know. And it's one thing for us to know now that she has admitted guilt, but thinking about her in this moment and for the whole last year, knowing that she's guilty and making the deliberate choice to parade around.

And she was like out there proclaiming her innocence. It wasn't just like she pleaded not guilty and then went away. She's on free Jen Shaw, social media. She's selling merch. She's, you know, leverage. it for sympathy and all of her friendships and things like that. And it's like, damn, she really, uh. I know.

And do you think that now, like, I guess in her head at that point, she was like, we're going to get like I can finesse and, you know, I won't have to admit that I'm guilty, whatever. Do you think now she's like after she's come out and said, yeah, it was me, whatever? And now she's watching these episodes. It's like cringe or she's just like, um, I don't think that she is really self-aware on that level to where she thinks it's cringe. I think maybe she watches it and is sad that the chance of getting off and being exonerated isn't going to happen for her.

But I think that the pleading guilty was enough of a calculated decision knowing the fact that I'm sure she was told by her lawyers that it's like you are almost for sure not going to get out of this. Yeah. I don't think there's like a, I don't think, I don't, I think it's more of like a strategic thing. So I think she probably is like still upset about the circumstance, but I don't think she sees it in a way that it's like on her still. Yeah, I just, I just don't think she has the capacity for that. No. Yeah, I agree. But I do love to see the girls showering her with affection on a trip because I love a trip.

Yeah. And it, it really is funny to realize that there are only five of them. I know. You know, I was thinking that too, I'm like, when they were all sitting at the table, I'm like, we're missing someone. Right. Well, Mary, but she's gone. Exactly. Mary, Jenny, she's gone.

Exactly. The friends of haven't shown up yet this season except her. I'm kind of digging. Ew, digging. I can't believe if I just said that. I'm digging this. No, I kind of am enjoying this small group. Small group.

So hot right now. Small group is so hot right now. I mean, like, whatever. Because you're getting more, you're seeing more of them. We're talking about the Whitney thing. You know what I mean? There's more focus. And we're kind of like getting rid of like people that suck, you know?

There's no place to hide in this group. And certainly not in this house. Uh-uh. I think in a group like on Beverly Hills to just to compare this season when you count Kathy and Cherie, it's a group of 10. And that's just a lot of people. Like even sometimes when I'm talking about it, I'm like, okay. So there's like, there's like Erica and Lisa. and then like Sutton and Grasal are besties

and Crystal's kind of with them and then there's Kyle and it's like oh I forgot to read like that kind of thing where it's like you do actually kind of have to go through the mental roster and be like who did I forget? Whereas on this trip it's just the five of them

they've all been on this show now together for three seasons and it feels like everybody is really going to have to participate in a way that is exciting to me because I think the worst thing that can happen on a housewives show is when you have people who feel like they're too good for it or feel like they can get away with not showing up and doing the work.

Oh, because they'll be there. That's fine. I can skip this. Yeah. And I think if you had a cast of, you know, seven like they did last year, maybe somebody like a Meredith Marks could be like, you know, I'm not feeling Lisa. I'm going to sit out this trip or I'm going to really just remove myself for, I'm going to disengage.

Yeah. And, you know, as much as Meredith isn't giving Lisa the time of day, in a meaningful way right now. They're still there. Exactly. When she's talking to Seth on the phone and he's like, well, have you seen Lisa? And she's like, there's five girls in a house. Yes, I've seen Lisa.

Yeah. No, exactly. And I think this is golden. I think this is what a trip. Five girls. It makes sense because as you said, no one can hide. It's a group project that everyone needs equal participation in because spotlight, it's, you're there.

I'm curious. So the trip starts with Whitney and Lisa going. down first. Yes. And I think this works on multiple levels because, first of all, not everybody is going to be on a plane together and we're not going to have any off-camera moments of there being a fight on an airplane. Have we had that yet?

Airplane fight? Sprintervan fight. Sprinter vans do well, but they usually have cameras in there. The planes, it's always just like whatever they get on their phones. Exactly. It's like the social team. It's like an area's social team. But so I think obviously we, it's.

The delayed thing of getting everybody together makes sense. But then also it gives Whitney and Lisa time to kind of chat. They talk about what Whitney has been going through a little bit, which I think it's, you know, good to get people on the same page. And Lisa is like, oh yeah, I totally understand what you're going through. Sometimes I had to get my sister ready for school. And also, I thought I had such a good friendship with Meredith. And now she's not speaking to me.

And when he's like, did you hear what I just said? Like this is the past 40 years of my life or whatever, my entire life, like trauma devastating news. But go on. But Whitney is all of a sudden in a really, really intriguing position in the group because not 30 minutes before, we watched her and Meredith talk about how they've both heard cheating rumors about Lisa. And so Whitney has kind of stumbled into the fact that both Lisa and Meredith see her as. somebody to confide in and have these kind of off the record conversations with. And pretty quickly, you can tell that Whitney is buckling under the weight of this. She's like, shit.

It's next episode, isn't it? Yeah. And she's talking to Heather and she's like, yeah. So the thing about Meredith is she was telling me stuff about Lisa. And Heather's like, wait, wait, wait, what? Yeah. She's like, yeah, so like a thing about, a thing about like cheating, which I had also heard. And I, yeah, I knew.

But then like, Lisa thinks that I'm her friend. And yeah, I don't, I don't know. But anyway, let's go talk to the shaman. Fix everything. Oh, my God. These women and a fucking energy healer, mystic, psychic shaman. It's every episode. It's every episode.

Whitney's like since the time that I've been on my healing journey. And when she was saying that like she saw Lisa as a scared little girl, right? Remember this? Actually, this was kind of like creepy and cool and like I don't necessarily not believe in like energy, whatever. But this was kind of like in the beginning of the episode when she was talking to Meredith about her, like her healer or whatever saying that she sees Lisa as a scared little girl. But then when they were at the shaman doing that whole thing and the shaman was over,

over Lise and she was crying. She was like, I'm like, and she was talking in the interview. She's like, I was a scared little girl. You know what I mean? Like that came up in her head. She's like, the first thing I saw was me as a little girl being scared. I'm like, whoa, Whitney, Whitney. Pass that cacao elixir. Oh my God.

And Meredith being late, Meredith, like, doing her makeup inside. She's like, yeah, I don't know if I'm feeling the shaman, but then she just like Shows up late. Wonders in halfway through. Like, lays down. She's like, yeah, I don't. really feel like sharing right now, but I will definitely lay in this blanket cocoon. Looks comfy.

I'd be down. The funny thing, though, is like later when Meredith is like, so what did everyone share? And it's like, maybe you should have shown up on time. And the best thing is a shaman at the end. She's like, okay, so we're going to take everything that, you know, we brought up here and you guys are going to go to dinner and have a really nice conversation about all of this. It's like, that's not going to happen. that's not going to happen. I'm sure that's in the shaman guidebook of the course that you do to become a licensed shaman. I'm sure they're like, yeah. So when you have a group of women with interpersonal issues, then after you do your relaxing cacao elixir ceremony, you're going to send them to dinner and make sure that there's plenty of alcohol at the dinner.

And cameras everywhere. Cameras everywhere so that all of the emotions will come up. Also make sure they're in full glam while they're doing this thing because they will be. filmed. Like, it is just so, I love when these shows do the, like, misty woo-woo, like, ritual. Like, something about it to me. It just always brings out, like, all the demons. It does. It does. What did they do on Girl's Trip?

What did Darynda have? What did they do? Oh, they did. A psychic or something like that? But that also brought, that show was a full. Do you remember season one of Salt Lake when they went to Vegas and they were, went to that psychic's house. Kimberly.

And then I did an Instagram live interview with her. With the psychic? Yeah. You definitely knew about this at the time. But it was early 2021. So it was like still like kind of COVID times. And I literally did this Instagram live with her from Bravo by Betches in my bedroom. And her like publicist had set it up.

And I literally went live with. at Kimberly Friedmutter, I think her name is. She's like a celebrity psychic. And I had been told that she was, could do like a little like on camera like hypnotization. Wait, what did you? Did you like fall asleep on the live? No. So she didn't really.

I thought I was going to be like fully hypnotized on Instagram Live. And I'm like, that sounds bat shit crazy. I'm in. I love it. But she really just was like, she was like, oh, like what can I help you with? And I was like, I don't know, maybe like sleep help with sleeping. And she was like, okay. just like close your eyes like put your tongue on the tip of your I don't remember like exactly it's

probably saved somewhere but I don't think I used the sleeping tips but I wanted to get fully like you are getting very sleepied like full on live you probably would have went viral it'd be a whole thing I would have like started drooling like talking in my sleep on Instagram live I would have gotten fired you've fired um no but I just I love these activities that they do always are giving but yeah I mean I mean The thing with Meredith and Lisa is that I am, I like the drama. We love the drama. I like the beat.

But it makes me nervous that we are two episodes into the season and they and Meredith seems so uninterested in even having a conversation with Lisa. I know. It's like I don't need them to be besties. I don't need them to be on the same page about everything. but I'm like, you got to come to the table a little bit. It's a new season. Exactly. And there's obviously underlying issues, a lot of them.

This is kind of the bulk of the issue right now. Or the biggest drama. It's like, we need a little confrontation. I feel like it might, I feel like next episode we see the blowout with Heather and Whitney. And that's going to kind of, I don't know if it's going to necessarily sweep Lisa and Meredith under the rug, but it's going to take a little weight off of Meredith. It's like prolonging her. Yeah.

I think that's an interesting point that maybe. right now the entire group is focusing on how are Meredith and Lisa going to be around each other? And that maybe when there's a little bit more going on with the other people in the group, maybe that will actually help Meredith and Lisa to feel like there's not so much attention on, have they spoken to each other? What's the vibe? Like, oh, it's so awkward. We're all tiptoeing around this.

Like, if Heather and Whitney are going to fight about something, then Meredith and Lisa can, like, it's kind of like a sudden and Erica's situation almost. where it's like the times that they've actually kind of bonded this season are like having a laugh when something else is going on. Exactly. Or like putting their promises aside and focusing on someone else's issues. Which again, this is why I'm like very into Salt Lake City this year because there's so many different avenues of drama and different things going on that are actually like relevant like Lisa Meredith and then Heather Whitney like that we know is coming. And then like Jen obviously all of the shit, the legal shit going on because they're not taking one. thing like Beverly Hills did last year and taking Erica's legal issues and that was the entire

fucking season. This, it's like, I just, when we were just talking about Lisa and Meredith and Whitney and Heather, I forgot about Jen, like, and her legal issues, which I'm sure we'll come into play more, but it's sprinkled in perfectly. Like, I'm getting a little bit from everybody. Totally. I agree. Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Red Bull Summer all day play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic? A deep end DJ, a road dog. or a trail mixer. Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track.

Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit redbull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime originals have everything you want.

Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L. Every year after, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen.

Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. The last thing I want to talk about just because it's so funny to me is before they're even on the trip, Lisa's seen playing basketball with Jack in the driveway. It's giving airbud. It was like giving. And you can tell Lisa has really decided that her personal storyline this season is going to be Jack's college situation.

Because at the very beginning of the episode, when they're kind of, when they do like the little moments with each of them, she's like, Jack, have you been talking to the college counselor? Do you want me to call the school? And then later when they're in the driveway, she's like, no. So like, what's it? Like, it's very Amy Polar and mean girls. She's like, has everything going with your SATs?

What are you thinking about with college? Do you even want to go to college? Do you want to party at college? Woo-hoo. Fun time. And when Jack says, I mean, it's kind of like fudge college, honestly. He's going to probably make more money not going to college. She's like, well, you're not going to have mommy and daddy always with money for things you want to do.

I'm like. No, but Taylor, like, fudge college. Fudge. We should make merch. Fudge college. Do we have a big college audience here? Fudge college. You know we don't.

I know. We just got out of a meeting where we don't. Because that was your thing. Once upon a time and it got shut down. I got shut down, man. No, but it's, it is so funny that he's like, whoa, why would I go to college when I started a business? That was that saying.

When I own a business and it's like baby doll. Baby doll. Baby gorgeous. Baby gorgeous. He's not, Henry's baby gorgeous, really. But like, you started, you own a business that your parents like walked you into. Yeah. Literally.

And did you have any passion about it? Skin care. It's like hair product. Fresh wolf, there's like a beard beard oil. Right. I'm sure he just signs off on things or not even probably. They probably have a printed stamp of this thing. Even if he is so

active in that business, he doesn't own that company in a way that is like his response. It's not Kim and Skims. It's not that. I'm thinking that's what he's thinking. Not that being your shining example of like a business woman who started from the ground up.

Shut up. Bethany and Skinny Girl. As the first. self-made billionaire. Yeah. Okay, whatever. But you know what also

in that scene? So first of all, it's freezing cold in Salt Lake City, right? And they do it, they show when she's, when Lisa's like talking about like, you need to go to college,

they do it like a, close up of his hands. And it's giving Arthur, you know, the meme, the Arthur, me with the fist. And I'm like,

he must be freezing fucking cold. And you made him come out here and do a basketball scene to talk about college. He's like shivering. Seems like a fun, interactive mom. And you're like,

ha, you a lamp on me. And she's like wearing her like ath leisure look and she got her glasses on. I'm like, oh, here we go. I mean, I live for it. I live for it. Absurd.

Absolutely absurd. Oh, wow. If that's her MO this season, keep it coming. I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying all of it. You too. Two fantastic episodes of housewives last night, really.

Great. Great reality TV for two hours. Love that for us. Me too. And I love you for coming back here. Oh, you'll be getting your, I'll be sending you the check. Fratting me on.

I'll send you an invoice. By end of week. Yes. And also, guys, before we started this episode, I saw Dylan taking Advil and I was like, he's taking this to prevent a headache that I'm going to give him. Do you have a headache? Actually, no. Fuck, yes.

Could have been the adjo. The Advil counteracted the Taylor Jackson of it all. Thank you guys so much for listening. Don't forget to rate review and follow the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. I will be at BravoCon next weekend coming at you live with all of the behind-the-scenes content. So make sure you're following along so you don't miss anything. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mentioned at all is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge

Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousmaqat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico. Social media by Dylan Hafer, guest booking by Dylan Hafer and Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the job. Jonas Brothers returned to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th, the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th, and the signature Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamavatheater.com,

only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You in? Must be 21 to enter. Betches.