Mention It All - Rachel & Bethenny Are In Business Together Ft. Jared Alexander (RHOP)

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

Amid a wave of new Bravoleb podcast deals, The Grio’s Jared Alexander returns to the podcast and helps Dylan break down the tangled web of iHeart deals. They also discuss the latest piece of Bethenny journalism, and what she does (or doesn’t) have in common with Erin Brockovich. Later, they dig into this season of RHOP, and Dylan has a revelation about his feelings for one of the cast members. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Your summer starts now with Memorial Day deals at the Home Depot. It's time to fire up summer cookouts with the next grill, four-burner gas grill, on special buy for only $199. And entertain all season with the Hampton Bay West Grove's seven-piece outdoor dining set for only $49. This Memorial Day get low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot. While supplies last, price invalid May 14th or May 27th, U.S. only exclusions apply. See Home Depot.com slash price match for details.

Betches Media presents. Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, boo. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast.

It is a new week, and I'm so excited to be here with a good friend of mine and a returning guest to the podcast. Please welcome back Jared Alexander. Hey, Jared. Hey, Dylan. How are you? I am so good. I'm so happy to speak to you because, I mean, of course, there's always lots of stuff going on on Bravo. But we were just texting last night about Renaissance, a film by Beyonce.

And I just, okay, usually on this podcast, I feel like I don't really spend a lot of time talking about like other things that I'm watching or like what else is going on in the world. But just like watching Beyonce for three hours, it was just like what my soul needed. It was everything and more. It literally was like a religious experience. which I know sounds so overdramatic, but like it really was exactly what I needed this weekend. But we all need. And, you know, Potomac, known for its great editing, Renaissance, I feel like also an editing achievement, it's like going from Beyonce switching between like 50 different couture outfits to watching

NECA's husband's sperm swimming. On Potomac, I'm like, editing contains multitudes as a profession. It really does. It's also like you have like Karen's pie, her little pieces of her pie, whatever that metaphor is she's trying to use versus the like cozy Beyonce dance where you're seeing like 20 different looks in five seconds. I just like to I like to shout out artistic excellence. And I also another piece of excellent journalism actually that I want to talk about is this article that was in the cut last week about Bethany Frankel. Because this arrives. And Bethany obviously has been. getting a lot of attention lately. And it feels like every time she opens her mouth, she sort of sinks further into, I don't know what she's trying to do. But the headline of this article is Bethany Frankel still dragging everyone, TikToking a baked potato with the self-described Aaron Brockovich of the reality TV reckoning. And it just is like this, this whole piece,

it's not like, it's not a takedown in a overly negative way. It just is a portrait. of somebody who is just sort of like flailing through this experience of thinking of herself as like the champion of something. And it just feels like the more and more that we hear from Bethany, it becomes more clear that she has no idea what she's actually working toward. It's diminishing returns every single time. I feel like, I mean, we were texting kind of immediately about it when it dropped. And shout out to the cut, because it is just, like you said, it's not a take-down piece, but it's a fair piece.

And it is absolutely a portrait of this person who has very much been in the public eye a lot this year at the front of this, I'm using air quotes movement. And we've talked about it, I think on the podcast and off just about how, you know, the point of the movement and the very real things that she's bringing up versus like Bethany's intentions or what you can kind of gain from it. And it seems like each time she does a piece or an interview, her, you just, she loses credibility a little bit. I hate to say it, but she does.

And it's a weird, it's, it is almost somewhat tweeted how it's just like, if you were to like zoom out of like housewives in general, it's like almost Shakespearean how Bethany's whole trajectory has gone. Um, and kind of to quote that unnamed housewife. Yeah. In the piece, comparing it like Frankenstein. I wrote down this quote because it is so good. So Brock Collier, who wrote the piece, says that when another one of Bethany's former co-stars heard that they were working on this piece, they reached out and didn't want to be named.

But the quote is, she's a creation of Bravo. They created a Franklstein, gave her power, and as in life-imitating art, she turned against her creator. It was obvious and inevitable. She'd like everyone to believe that she gives a damn about the exploitative nature of reality TV. instead what she's doing is desperately trying to keep herself relevant, making herself the hero without doing any real work. So that was a lovely quote by allegedly Carol Radzwell. Who else could be? Who else going to be? I mean, that was so clearly from a writer A and so clearly Carol. Like, and it was a delicious quote. Also, this specification that this person reached out to the author of the piece,

it's like, that's terrible. And I like how they, I mean, there are only so many people it could be. We were tweeting out there texting about this in terms of like just the syntax of the sentences. Like there's only so many people. But I will say that directly after that is when they like, they add in the ebony quote from the Vanity Fair piece. And it almost like cancels out you thinking it could be her because they like immediately go into that. So it's Carol. Come on.

Yeah. It's, it just is, it's funny because Bethany is now, I don't know, six months or so into this project of the reality reckoning that she, you know, is positioning herself as sort of like the Joan of arc of reality TV. And it feels like instead of working toward some end goal, it feels like it gets murkier and murkier, like what the actual intent is. And I think it's too bad because I think when she first started talking about this sort of scrutiny and looking at things and, you know, talking about how the sausage gets made, I think it felt like there were real opportunities to maybe improve on some things. And obviously, Bravo had sent out the

communication about better like alcohol management on their shows. And, you know, there have been some steps taken whether or not those are related to what Bethany's doing. But it's just like, she can't stop herself from getting in the way of the potential for good here. And it's just like, well, at the end of the day, we're not going to stop watching Housewives. And so I don't know. It's like it's too bad because it did feel like for a second, it was like, wow, maybe she's right. Absolutely. I mean, that's what I've been saying this whole time is that it's really not the message.

It feels like it's the messenger because everything that she was saying absolutely, even just aligned with the double Hollywood strike that we saw this summer. And, I mean, we were together at BravoCon on the heels of the Vanity Fair piece. And that was already like three, like, of one of her big interviews in. And there wasn't that much of an impact at all. And it is a shame. But then you kind of parallel it with, like, yes, she's talking about, like, making these changes and wanting to, like, burn the house down and, like, being the squeaky wheel.

But then she's also saying, but they're calling her Aaron Brockovich. So it's like you're kind of like you can't help but question her point in all this, her intentions, I should say. But it's like Aaron Brockovich didn't get rich from working at the chemical company. Right. The whole point was that Aaron Brockovich was like, I don't want my kids drinking this water. If Aaron Brockovich was a rich woman living in a mansion, the story wouldn't be that compelled. Julia Roberts would not have won that Oscar.

And so it's like, I mean, that comparison is wild in so many ways. But it's, yeah, it's, it just feels like we're kind of, and also it's so obvious that she doesn't actually have her finger on the pulse of what's going on on reality TV in 2023. Because the way that she talks about some of these shows and like the New York reboot, for example, she admits right off the bat that she hasn't watched it, but she still has a lot of thoughts about it. She, you know, did the same thing with Vanderpump Rules in her interview with Rachel saying the first time she ever watched the show was the season 10 reunion, but then she's making these like sweeping claims about everything that's happening on reality TV. Like, it really feels

like she wants to have it both ways of being above it, but also being the foremost expert on it. And I think, you know, now we're seeing she is, I believe, an executive producer of Rachel Goes Rogue, the new, Oh my God. Rachel Levis podcast coming January 2024 and it's like, sure, I guess this is the way forward for Bethany. When that picture drops, I literally lost my breath.

I was like, oh my God. It's just like a creepy picture. And she's a gorgeous girl, but it's just like such a weird. We were talking about this at BravoCon Dylan. I feel like we were like, man, like I hurt with these podcast deals. Like it seems like they're kind of like the home for Bravo. And it's kind of crazy, you know, that like there's never been like a, I feel like in another world, like Bravo would have their own podcast network. But I guess it's just eye heart now at this point. But like so many housewives and Bravo related people are there. And so I guess you should have seen it coming. So we're talking about this. I believe to just today, the two Jersey J's podcast officially launched with Jackie and Jen Fessler. And that one is being executive produced by the two T's ladies, Tamara.

And so they really are kind of, they're going further and further down this route of this whole kind of like network of within a network of Bravo related shows. But it's interesting because while you have the two T's and the Jersey J's who are, I mean, I haven't listened to Jackie and Jens, but two T's, it's a housewives podcast. Like they're recapping housewives. They're very like in the world of housewives talking about all of these things. And I think people really like that about them. Whereas on the other side, but still within IHeart, you have Bethany, who is, you know, the Norma Ray of Bravo. But then, and so she's, you know, posting these recap episodes of what's happening at BravoCon, making it sound like it's, you know, Sodom and Gomorrah. And but she isn't actually there.

And then she's executive producing this show for Rachel, which I can. only assume is going to be some sort of, you know, air quotes, like deconstruction of some, the reality TV machine or, you know, being a villain or scandal or whatever. It's unclear what that actually is going to look like. But it's like, it's funny that it's kind of like brilliant of eye heart that they're like, looking like, hmm, you know what we could do is we could have both the podcast of people obsessed with reality TV and the podcast of somebody who's trying to destroy it and we can make money off of both of those. 1,000%, Dylan, that's exactly. And look, it's dropping in January when we know

Fanderpump Rules is coming back that month. So, I mean, it makes sense. And I mean, we can't forget about Larsa and Marcus. I mean, that is just like, what a pod. You know, like they're really just. Larsa and Marcus and Seth and Meredith, I believe, are both on Iheart. And it's like, okay. Are Alexia and Marisol? Oh, God, don't ask me that. It was so funny. I think it was Ira Madison last week who tweeted that he's like, Andy, we need to make it illegal for Housewives to film recording their podcast because

in the last few weeks, we've had whole scenes of both Larsa and Marcus and Seth and Meredith sitting down to record their podcasts. And I'm sorry. There is no way for that to be interesting. If you want to listen to the podcast, more power to you. but like we can't keep having this as a storyline. Like even on O.C, we barely hear about two T's in a pod. And that's like one of the most successful ones.

One thousand percent. And that I feel like when it was maybe brought up, it was because she had said something on it. Like that's way more interesting if it's driving story. If it's not, I don't need to see them sitting down. It's just there's no way to make that. I barely like to watch like an actual video recording of a podcast for the whole episode.

Why would I want to watch a show of them filming it? It's just like, I don't know. Right. Like Whitney and Justin going over to Seth and Meredith's house to film the pot, to do the podcast, it's like, just go to lunch. Yes. I don't need. Like, I don't, it's strange because we do kind of see this is, this happens all the time on reality shows where there's sort of like a specific activity or type of storyline that kind of sweeps across the planes of like everybody's going to go axe throwing or everybody's going to do goat yoga. And I feel like podcasting is kind of just like, it's like that, but it feels like there's more of like a business incentive to do it.

And it's just, if you want to listen to all these podcasts, truly go for it. Obviously, I mean, I'm a part of the Bravo podcast economy. But it's like, God damn, we can't keep doing this. No, you would think it's like podcasting the new frontier. Like, I think it's so funny how like trends on housewives are always like 10 or 15 years. Like, you know what I mean? It's like kind of like now we can finally talk about it. where it's like I feel like

Heather New Brose is a good example. Like she has had a really successful podcast and she left the first time. She's only left once. The one she left. Um, and we never see, like we've been in her podcast room. We are spending all the time watching her talk about or watching her record her podcast.

It's so weird. That's a good point. I'm, I am hoping that when Vanderpump Rules comes back, there's not too much podcast content on the show. You're right. Because we had last season, there was.

It was the whole time going on the end. episode, but that at least really did drive story. It drove story, but I think more of like when Scandival was happening, their podcasts were all popping off so much with good reason. You know, Sheena and Lala and all of them were really like getting into it. But I'm like, okay, I don't need to see Sheena recording every week on Branderpump rules. So good, so good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom rack stores now and up to 60% off.

up and save on the brands you love like Vince Sam Edelman, Frame and Free People. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs.

You're thirsty for the summer. on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. I have to say I probably will listen to the first episode of Rachel Goes Rogue just because I feel like I owe it to everyone else. Yes. And I feel like that's going to be the one you're going to want to listen to. Like, here's the thing. Now that like the dust is settled, I certainly feel like a lot of

us have, like, re-examined, like, how that all went down, like, how much ownership she should take of it versus Sanderfal, just like how, the whole thing in general. So I'm for sure interested to hear her story. Do I need to listen every week, though? Absolutely not. But I'll listen to the first episode. Sure. You know, especially because she isn't going to be in the season. I'm still so curious as to how we're going to, like, move forward with that. But also, Dylan, doesn't feel like we've had a break from them. Like, that is the one thing that is, like, stressing me out a little bit is that I feel like it was, like,

the scan of all of it all was so huge. Then we go into dancing with, or it was the stars on Mars. Then we have the dancing with stars. And it's like, and then as they were filming, we were, like, getting all this footage, all that, like, because obviously it became the biggest show on Bravo. So, like, all these fans are taking videos and you're seeing stuff. It just is like, it doesn't feel like we've ever stopped.

Like, it's ever just slowed down and gotten a little quiet. Yeah, I have mixed feelings. I think it doesn't feel like we got too much of the storyline while they were filming. So I'm not super concerned about that. Like, I don't, it's not like with Puppy Gate or like the Erica and Tom stuff. Oh, my God. Like we kind of knew exactly what was happening with the season. But I agree that there has been sort of like a saturation level of that cast this year.

I don't know. I'm curious to see more of like the vibe of. having them together, though, because it's been a lot of, like, Ariana's doing her project here, and then Sandoval's on this show, and, you know, maybe Jax is popping up somewhere. But, like, I, I definitely am still really curious to see sort of how they move forward as a group. But, I don't know. I definitely am, too. And listen, it's going to be huge. And I, but I also think it's been interesting, too. And it was nowhere near as humongous or, like, culture shaking as Scandival. But I do appreciate, and I feel like maybe it was a carpet interview or something,

where Paige DeSorbo was talking about how, like, with the Summerhouse and with, like, the Carla Lindsay of it all, I do appreciate how, like, none of them ran to podcasts to talk about it, and a lot of them have podcasts. And we just are, like, going to watch it play out. And also, it just felt like a little more, for a cast that was almost just as divided, especially when it comes to Lindsay, it was really interesting to see that people weren't running to, like, you know,

of profit off of it. And again, it wasn't as big, but still, I really liked how, like, everyone was just kind of like, this is shitty for all parties, and you'll have to wait and see. And it's weird, you know? Yeah, that's a good point. I really, I haven't thought that much about Summer House in the last few months, which is kind of how it should be. Like, you know, shows go away and then you start to miss them, and then they're back with another season. And that's kind of like the natural, you know, life cycle of a TV show. And I think sometimes, social media, it's great that these people can do so many things with their platform, but there really is something kind of amazing. That's why actually, this is random, but I'm excited

for season two of Southern hospitality, which starts next week, I think, because I haven't thought about those people since season one. And so I'm ready for whatever they're going to give me, but I don't really have much, I don't have much of a preconceived notion of what that is. And so I think sometimes with those newer shows or those kind of more under the radar shows, it actually can benefit them because there aren't these super high expectations going into the season. And I don't feel like, oh, well, you know, I'm seeing these losers on Instagram every week. It's like, no, I miss, I miss Grace Lily a little bit. Right. No, I promise you, I have no idea what's gone on at Republic the past seven months. And I'm excited, but I'm excited about that. I've been like, you know me, I've been singing like the song of hospitality praises. for since it debuted last year. And again, it was only eight episodes when I feel like it's a show that has so much promise. But yeah, it's nice that, like, we don't know.

And I think we were sitting next to each other at the Southern Charm panel when they showed that sneak preview clip of, like, Leva watching the security footage. I was like, oh, my gosh, I was like, this just feels like, so, it feels so fun and we don't really know what's going to happen outside of, like, you know, it looks like I'm sure there's going to be

some sort of cheating scandal or, like, a lot of drama. But, like, it's, you know, I'm so pumped. when that's going to come back. Totally. Switching gears a little bit, I want to talk about Real Housewives of Potomac, and it feels at least online

the last week or two. Like, we are getting into a place where there's maybe some concern about this franchise. And you and I have talked about Potomac a lot in the past, and I'm curious from this point in the season, how are you feeling about

sort of the, the health of the franchise. And do you do you think that there is real cause for concern or are you kind of an optimist at this point? I think I'm, in the past when we've talked about this, I definitely have leaned way more

optimistic. However, I want to offer that, I think especially if you've been watching Bravo for a decent amount of time, we know that the show's always, it's always peaks and valleys, it's always highs and lows. Again, people never thought that Jersey could bounce back from season six. and we've had a whole new life past that.

If you look at Orange County. So that's where I'm kind of like, okay, like, we've had not a bad season of Potomac. I think last season people already started to be like kind of wanted to change. But I still think even though this isn't their best season by a mile and I think it has to do with the cast dynamics, I'm still laughing my ass off. I'm still just enjoying seeing them. And I think that like people need to also like just look at that because compared to,

I love Atlanta, but like, to me, that's still night and day. Like Atlanta, the last season felt almost unwatchable in terms of like it didn't even feel like a show. Whereas like this feels like the cast isn't working. Like you can really pinpoint what isn't working. But I still think that it's, it's still in decent shape. But something absolutely does have to change. I think for me, what I have realized about Potomac is that I think you're right that they are maybe. it's like they're judged,

they're graded on a little bit of a different curve because they haven't really struggled as much in the past and they've had sort of that stability and they've never had a real like dud of a season, even if there have been some ebbs and flows. But when you're, when I'm looking at the cast, it's

so interesting that they have not, nobody has left that show since Monique after season five. So they, you know, Candice obviously was came in later. they have their four OGs still hanging around. And then Wendy came on in season five, Mia came on in season six, season seven, the cast stayed the same. And then this year we added NECA.

And so it's only, I think, the second or third time in history that there have been eight full-time housewives on a season, which is already, you know, it's just a lot of people to juggle. But it also just feels like there hasn't really been sort of like we haven't cleared the energy. in the room in a really long time. And I think that's what I realized this week when I was watching the episode and we were coming back to stuff that was happening between, you know, Wendy and Giselle last season. And Candace and Ashley are still kind of, have had their simmering issues for like four seasons now that have always been kind of, you know, up and down. And it feels like there's, you know, with Robin and Karen, there's just like so,

much water under the bridge. And I think seeing in back-to-back episodes, Giselle has made comments about how there is nothing to be gained from her ever speaking to Candice. And she said, last week's episode, I think she said it's fuck you forever with her and Candace. And I think that is just a really tough place to be coming from when you're trying to build a cast dynamic. And even when you can get everyone in the same room, there's just this kind of like air of stale negativity that is, it's tough. And I think with,

for me personally, I think I'm having trouble with Wendy this season because I feel like so much of the drama is centering on her, both her issues with NECA and her, you know, lingering stuff with Giselle, whatever. And I just like,

I'm realizing that I don't, know if I super care. And not in like a personal way, but just in a way where I'm like, if we're going to spend all this time talking about NECA and Wendy, if I don't feel particularly attached to either of those parties, it's tough to really be like inspired, even if on paper some of the conflict is entertaining. 1,000 percent. I think, I mean, with everything you just touched on, I agree. And with it's so interesting with the Wendy of it all. Because this is. This is her fourth season.

And that's like a pretty decent run already to begin with. And I think, first of all, I really enjoy Wendy solo. I've decided. Like, I think some of her home scenes and her family and, like, being able to watch her grow in her career, have been some of the most engaging we've had on the show, period. And even just in housewives. And I, again, love getting to interview her. I just think, and I love, I really enjoy her in that regard.

but I do feel like we're kind of reaching this peak in terms of like her and the group dynamics and how she appears within the group and not within the group. So like, of course, like, you know, like at the end of this episode, it's just like it feels like something isn't true. And not necessarily that she's lying, but there are just clear omissions that then the flashbacks kind of like when NECA's talking about. Her sip and see party. And it really reminds me, this almost happens every season with Wendy. It happened last season two.

Do you remember with Mia's Cancer Scare? We're within the group on camera. She was like, we should believe her. Like, this is her personal health business. And then when she's like getting her right taken off, she's like, she's a liar. And I feel like that has been a lot of the group's issue with Wendy from what I can gather is like, I don't think authenticity is the right word, but in terms of like how she just presents herself that maybe isn't. the same as when the cameras are down.

And it feels like we're really reaching a peak of that. And NECA is kind of like a really big squeaky wheel in that. Does that even make any sense? Yeah, I think so. And it actually, it kind of gels with her work as like a commentator and like a talking head on CNN. And I think it's like in that sphere of things. When you think about that, like the whole job of being like an on camera personality like

that is that you are called on. You usually have like, you know, 30 seconds or a minute to really like make your case and, you know, stake your claim and kind of, it's like sort of an exercise in debate where it's like you choose what your viewpoint is going to be and then you kind of have to stick to that. And it almost feels like that's kind of how she approaches some of her relationships with the women. That it's like, I, regardless of what the like most correct version of the truth is, I've decided that my, my POV in this argument is X, Y, is X, and I'm going to argue that point. It's like you're on the high school debate team and you're, you're given your position. And I think sometimes it's probably really exactly how she feels and very authentic,

but sometimes it feels like a little bit of this grandstanding, you know, I'm going to debate you into the ground, whereas if you take a step back and it's like, what are we actually arguing about? This is stupid. Like, you do know this woman. We know that you know this woman. And like you're saying that you don't isn't going to make it true. And I think, yeah, it's tough because I like Wendy as like a standalone figure, like you said. And I think, you know, her relationship with Eddie has been great for the show. I think people love that for a reason. But it's just, it's tough. And I think you know, one quality that I think makes for longevity and a housewife is that being able to sort of keep it moving, keep it pushing, and, you know, reshuffle the friendship cards when you need to

and kind of let things slide off your back. And I think for Wendy, that kind of isn't in her DNA because I think she is so used to having to argue her point and sort of convince people to her side. So with something like her and Jazelle, it's like, can we just like, can we please, like, we need them to just be like, great, moving on, we're never going to bring this up again. But I don't think that Wendy can really allow herself to do that. Absolutely. And I'll offer too that it's hard. I'm literally racking my brain right now. For me with Wendy, it's also hard to know exactly why she is upset.

Like I feel like with the Candace and Giselle situation, as intense as it is right now, we know. exactly what it is. Giselle said this about Chris. Candice did not like that at all and it seems like they're never going to move forward. And it still feels like with the Wendy Giselle thing, it was like, Ashley and Giselle were talking about the Eddie rumors. And then her relationship with Giselle just kind of spoiled, but she's fine with Ashley. So that's kind of confusing. And then with the Mia thing, like that was kind of back and forward, but she's like kind of okay with Mia, but then is also calling her slow. And then with the NECA thing, it's like, she says she doesn't know her, but then she does know. You know what I mean?

It's really hard to just follow because it feels like the facts keep changing for her to the point where like what was most interesting to me about that episode was at the end when even Candace in her interview was kind of like, I cannot follow this. And it does seem like at this point, it was interesting. The first couple episodes, I felt like there was a lot of, at least on my timeline, like a lot of neck I hate. Like people even being like, she's got to go. Because of course we love Wendy and are going to be loyal to who we know. And now already, especially after last episode, people are like, it's, she. just hard to even imagine that NECA could come up with this, I mean, amazingly articulate,

completely made up scenario that has Wendy depressed. Does that make sense? Like, it's like, there's just no way. Yeah. Right. Like, it's, it's one of those things where you see it and it's like, I don't know that this is true, but it's also weird to think of that this is the lie that somebody would come up with if they were, if they were lying. Like, it's one of those things where it's like, that's a really specific thing to make up. And then also when Wendy is like, let me read to you verbatim what my mom did say. And it's to hell with Mia and Peter. Oh yes, I say holy ghost fire on Mia and Peter, a thunderstorm.

Amen. It's like is that voodoo? Probably not. But is that like what I think of as like a really, you know, lovely, nice prayer. So maybe not. it's literally giving whatever that means is like literally how it feels because it's like and also to what you were saying before though I do think that that's how Wendy operates like she is a debater so like and when you do that you always like hit him with the facts so she's like if you're saying this if you're going to say this about my mom actually I'm going to read you exactly what she said because technically yeah she isn't saying like I don't know she's like casting a spell or anything like that but still when she's reading it out loud it's really not helping and there's still just like very clear. And can I just say also out of sight, though,

and I know people have a lot of mixed feelings about her, I've decided. Mia Thornton is an amazing reality TV star. I am so just, like, engaged with her reactions to the, like, she's kind of now become, she's not a voice of reason, but she's a really fun, like, she's really just a fun connection for the audience to, like, check in

and be like, okay, what are we watching right now? Like, what is happening? Good sleep is everything. That's why Ali's sign. Science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-D-Nine for both kiddos and grown-ups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. Erasing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie Sleep Solutions for the Whole Family at ali.com.

That's OLLL-L-Y.com. Study. And play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College deal, everything you need, to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 premium and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at Windows.com slash student offer.

While supplies last ends June 30th, terms at AKA.m.m.S. College PC. I feel like I am in a different place with Mia after every episode of this show. Sometimes I forget that she exists. Sometimes I can't stand her and sometimes I'm like, she's the best. And I think these last two episodes, I really have been sort of won over by her. And I think you're exactly right that she is a really good sort of like third party in a conversation where she's going to give you a funny expression or a comment on something like last week when they were, when things were kind of going left at the pickleball thing and Wendy was saying that Nekka was dumb or something. And you just, they cut to Mia and she's like, she called me that too and a bird brain. And like the way she said bird brain was

just like so, so funny to me. But also this week, I really was, I felt like I was getting wrapped up in her personal storyline, which I was not expecting that I, I wasn't paying a lot of attention to what was going on with her and Gordon, you know, in real time. It just was like, didn't feel like the most important thing. But this story about the guy that, you know, owed them money and then Gordon sued him and he got disbarred and then he took his own life, that's a really dark story. And to see Mia be so affected by it and worried that this sort of thing could happen to someone else in Gordon's family if they continue down this road, I really was feeling for her because it's, it's, it's, this tough thing where she and Gordon are in this situation together, but have this like fundamentally different view now of how best to proceed. And like, I just was not expecting to really feel like, you know, like I even cared that much about what was going on with her. So I was like, this was an episode where I felt like it was kind of maybe a turning point we'll see in my

relationship with Mia as a viewer. No, it was by far the most interesting dynamic aspect of the episode and I feel like of this season so far. And I think that too, she's just as so, again, it still feels like she's a newbie in some ways, but this is her third season. But we've seen the dissolution of plenty of marriages on housewives. It's kind of like one of the top tier storylines that you'd see. Of course, these are real people also. I know these are real lives, but it becomes a common theme. And I think the thing that's so important storytelling wise is that you know these people enough to care about them. I feel like that's one of the biggest complaints about Drew Sadora is that like, yeah, the Ralph and Drew stuff was super engaging, but like the

second you met them, it was so crazy. You couldn't even, you know, like, you have to watch like Sam and Ron fall in love in season one before he's like throwing her glasses and like chucking the bed. It's just you kind of have to. You need like that place of equilibrium to kind of you need, it's like when you're taking the polygraph and at the beginning they're like establishing your baseline with like yes or no questions. It is because when you think about with Mia, you're right that she feels like still a newbie because there was, you know, there was no one new last season. And I think she kind of was one of those housewives where at the beginning. You're like, what is her deal? But thinking about her energy, like the first season, she was like Boston CEO,

like your bills has been affected. And then now she's like in this place where it seems like her priorities have really shifted from, you know, hustling and being on top of the world, both figuratively and literally in her penthouse to now she's like, actually, I want Gordon to be spending time with the family and retiring like he said he was going to. And yeah, money is great, but also I don't want somebody, I don't want people around me to literally die because of these money disputes. And I think it's like, it's just sort of hitting me now that that's a pretty compelling personal arc for someone to go on. And I think it's it's sort of the opposite sometimes of how we see Housewives kind of, you know, we see like a Bethany Frankel go from being,

you know, Little Miss, I'm broke in my Upper East Side apartment to Burke and Bethany. Whereas like, it almost feels like Mia is sort of stripping that away a little bit this season. Yeah. And it almost makes you want to root for them a bit too because you, again, you have to care enough and they have to be on long enough. And it felt like last season with the Jacqueline stuff that was just way too

convoluted again to even really understand. So I'm glad that they just dropped that and we could just focus on her. But also I think in the group scenes, even though she isn't on great terms with Wendy and like she's not close with Candace, she's kind of like one of the big connectors because she can film a

scene with pretty much anyone and that at least look at each other and talk compared to, you know, you have like the green-eyed bandits or you have, you know, Ashley and Candace are good now, but it doesn't seem like that's going to last very long. Like, so it is interesting, too, that she's, her home scenes are compelling, but also her place in the group feels really solidified. Like, she has relationships with just about everybody. Yeah, it's a good point. And I think if you look at Housewives casting more broadly, it's a, it's kind of a reminder that you can't build you can't build a cast with just the heaviest hitters and no kind of filler.

And like filler, filler sounds very negative, but it's like you need people to kind of support the, not everybody can be the alpha boss, you know, you can't have six Danielle Stobbs and Teresa's on a housewives cast. It just wouldn't work. And maybe this Potomac cast is a little too big overall.

But also, like, it's tough when you have your Giselle and your Candace and your, um, your Karen and like everybody's not on good terms. And having Mia there, at least in these last couple episodes, I think without her, it would, it would be even kind of bleaker because there just wouldn't be sort of that, that extra something happening in the cast. And it's, it's, it's, I don't know, I feel like my opinion has been changed even just as we're, as we're talking about it. No, it's true, and you're right. You need, just like you said, you can't have, I say this all the time, and I love her, sort of my favorite housewives literally, but like a Dolores, for example, is someone who, like,

she's not like the center of the story. It's not like, but you need someone who is, A, connected to them, but is still engaging and can kind of move. But that's how I felt for years, now it's a little different, but that's why I always was team, don't fire Robin. Like, I feel like every season, people were like, Robin's got to go. She doesn't do anything. But I was like, actually, no, she kind of does.

Like, she is connected to all of them. She's engaged. She has great storyline. But, like, of course, she's not, she's not Giselle or Karen. But I don't think every housewife needs to be a Giselle or Karen. Right. And I think that you can be, being a good friend and being a good housewife are not mutually exclusive. And I think it's sort of the archetype for that was probably Cynthia Bailey that she was kind of. Oh, my God, yeah. She was there for so long. And she, I mean, season after season, people were like, Cynthia's boring. Fire Cynthia. But she was a crucial. piece of the puzzle.

And I think we've missed her a little bit. And when she when she popped back up on Atlanta last season, it was a bright spot in a season that didn't have a lot of them. And then she's now she's at Kyle Richards weed dinner. Oh my God. Wait, Dylan, can we for two seconds also? Because you're so right about Cynthia. But I was sitting there.

Do you ever have those moments where like you're watching Housewives and we've just taken in so much content that you like disassociate for a second and you like flashback? It's like to something. And I was like, do you remember Kyle and Cynthia feuding on Ultimate Girl's Trip Season 1 after the like Cynthia's, what, what game did they play? We're like, they really had like a deep thing where like they argued. And I was like, that's totally not even in the context of this anymore. Because I was like, they did not get along on that trip. And it was so random.

Yeah, I don't remember the context. I don't remember the game specifically. But Girlstrip Season 1 is so interesting because Cynthia did. did not have a good time. And she was kind of like down and out that whole weekend. It was kind of a bummer. And then she didn't come back the next season after that for Atlanta. So there was a moment where it really was like, wow, Cynthia kind of left the housewives game with her tail between her legs a little bit.

And for somebody who had been on the show for so long, it was kind of like an unceremonious way to go. and then it really does feel like maybe she's one of the better examples of how being put on pause, even if that's not maybe the way it was framed. Like, I think a lot of people now would be happy to have Cynthia back in the mix. Oh, and she's done it. We've now had so many housewives leave. And now we know, though, now we know that in the universe, like, there's always going to be room for you to come back depending on how you play your cards. And I feel like Cynthia has done such a good job of that.

She'll pop on e-news Daily Pop with Justin. She'll, like, do some co-hosting. She'll, like, appear in some things. And, like, she was at BravoCon last year and wasn't on a show. She was just there. I remember. And I was just, like, it's nice when you have people who are still kind of in that world because then, like, when the door does open.

And again, I know everyone has their own relationship with the network, and it is a working relationship. But it's nice when you get to see that because then the door is kind of open. And, like, you can't be put on pause. And I think five, six years ago, getting fired from housewives felt like just the end of the road. And now there really is going to be, there's going to be work for you somewhere down the line. It seems like in some capacity. You're going to be invited on traders or girls trip or BravoCon panel or, you know, some hosting gig.

Like there's a lot more, it feels like there's a lot more sort of out. You're going to get an IHeart podcast. Oh, please. That'll be first. That's step one. Yes. I don't know. Cynthia Bailey, I don't know if I would listen to her podcast, but I am happy to see her on Housewives.

Right. I'm happy to see her following Sutton and Kyle's Spaths. Exactly. And Jared, I'm always happy to see you across the Zoom screen for me. Tell everyone where they can follow you and read your stuff. Yes, I'm an entertainment writer at The Griot, so you can see all my reality TV, TV film content there. And you can follow me on Instagram at the Jared Alex, where I'm usually, you know, reposting Bravo by Vech's stuff at the time because it's so fun. Awesome. Well, thank you, Jared. And thank you everyone for listening. Don't forget to rate review and follow the show wherever you listen.

You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mention It All is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousmakat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico, Social Media by Dylan Hafer, guest booking by Dylan Hafer and Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly Big Board Bucks slot machine by aristocrat gaming, Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is giving one person a $1.6 million dream package. The biggest prize in Yamava's history.

members can earn daily instant prizes and secure a spot in the finale May 29. Don't pass go and own it all. Only at Yamaba, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You win? Details at yamava.com must be 21-20. Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. Betches.