Mention It All - RHOP’s New Era Without Karen Huger Ft. Gibson Johns

Episode Date: September 2, 2025

On this week’s video episode, Dylan is joined by Gabbing With Gib host Gibson Johns to yap about all things Bravo and beyond. They dive into Karen Huger’s release from prison, what her absence in the new upcoming season means for the  @bravo  franchise, and how Potomac is stepping into a new era. Over in Orange County, they cover RHOC’s tired “gang-up” tactics and the risk of repeating Jersey’s mistakes. And finally, they unpack RHOSLC’s upward momentum without Jen Shah and whether she deserves a redemption arc in That’s My Opinion! Go to the BravoByBetches YouTube page to watch full length episodes every Tuesday: Youtube.com/@BravoByBetches 00:00 Introduction 2:27 Love Island fans are not familiar with Andy Cohen’s game 9:47 RHOP Trailer & the Grand Dame is FREE! 21:28 The gang up tactics on RHOC and beyond 47:20 That’s My Opinion & Jen Shah’s Redemption Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Store Online for details. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Mentioned at All podcast. I am thrilled to be here today with a good friend of mine, a fellow Bravo lover. We're always in the group chat. And now we've got to bring it to the microphone. He is the host of the Gabbing with Gibb podcast. You know him. He's been here before.

Gibson Johns. Welcome back. It's a pleasure to be back in the studio. How are you doing? I'm great. How has your summer been? My summer's in very good. I'm kind of ready for it.

I'm not like one of those people who's like, fall, let's go. but like I'm kind of ready for like the I want my routine back you know yeah it does feel like the the temperatures have been like easing up a little bit and it's like oh yeah like I'm like I'm putting on jeans this totally and like honestly this this month has been very kind of light on the Bravo front generally speaking which I kind of I'm appreciative of you know it's I don't love when you have too much of a TV commitment it has been it's been strange the last few weeks feeling like I can wait till Thursday or Friday in the week. and just not watch anything and still not be behind. It's weird, right? Because I'm so used to the grind of like, if I don't watch the screener for the Sunday night show, then I am starting off my Monday already behind. And then the whole week, it's like, oh, so there's something on Tuesday that I got to watch. And then Wednesday, Thursday, it's a lot to keep up with.

And right now it's kind of like, oh, yeah, like Thursday's Bravo Day. We have two housewives. There's no Love Island on right now. Oh, my God. you can scatter in your other shows if you want. Like that's, I like this, this flavor.

And there's like not a ton of scripted stuff. I don't watch summer I turn pretty. So like that's not. I sadly do watch that. Like, I'm sorry. It's almost over. One of the worst shows I've ever seen in my life,

but I have to see it through. I do. I mean, there's like three episodes left. Yeah. No, it's just, but it's,

the acting is really tough. And I don't go to shows like that for acting, but it's especially notably poor in my decision, in my opinion. Yeah, it's like I would rather watch women who aren't actors. giving us theatricality. Totally.

Like I tweeted like belly is like one of the most annoying people I've ever seen on TV and people were like Okay, says the guy who watches Tamara and Shannon for 10 seasons

and I'm like, we're not comparing belly to Tamara Judge. I'm sorry. Apples and oranges and oranges and whatever they eat on summer I turn pretty.

Like a freaking high noon. I don't know. Are they a legal drinking age on summer? She does turn 21 on season 3. Oh my God. Good for happy birthday belly. Yeah.

this show I will absolutely never watch. It was interesting. This past week was the Love Island USA reunion. And it has been funny to watch some of the reactions online from people who are clearly not familiar with Andy Cohen's game that like, they're like, oh my God, he was so rude to this blah person. And oh, he, oh, why is the host so mad? And it's like, the host.

Who do you think you're talking about? I love that Love Island is so popular. Yeah. I love that is the number one streaming show, as Andy reminded us during the reunion. But I swear to God, people who watch that show have never seen reality TV before. They don't know how it works. Andy Cohen, in that reunion, was light and fun. And he's a little shady.

Yeah. But if, like, you can't handle him questioning Huda, saying that she has an, like, basically saying that she has an NDA with Netflix. And that's why she says she can't talk about her boyfriend. Like, you got to relax. Yeah, it's been an interesting, like, it's just interesting because I think like we're so immersed in the Bravo universe and sort of the the Bravo online bubble that it's like, oh, there's people here who have never watched like people yelling at each other at a dinner table. Like grow up. These people were barely yelling at each other. I wanted more people weighing in other issues.

I felt like every time there was an issue on this reunion, it was like, all right, let's have Huda and. and Shelly talk it through. But nobody else, like, sort of weighed in on their situations. And that is, I think, what I was looking for more. Like, I want the, they were the only ones there. You know, like, we saw it on TV. I just wish that, like, I don't know. I wish we would have had more back and forth than waiting in.

Yeah, I think, like, the best Bravo reunions probably within reason are when everybody kind of gets involved in the conversation. And there's a difference between that and like everyone yelling over each other. And it's hard to follow what's going on. But like there are some there's sometimes that idea of like, oh, well like this is between this. It's like, oh, this is between Larsa and I, you know, Julia, stay out of it. And it's like, no, actually like this is an ensemble show. Like it benefits everyone when everybody has opinions about things and is speaking out. And with Love Island, it does feel like there's almost this weird sense of like decorum.

where it's like this is between her and I, you shouldn't speak on this. And it's like, I would like to hear it. I think it's almost like media training and they're almost too careful to like weigh in on things. Especially because Love Island, even like the most like minimal issue becomes a hot button issue for that show, which is really frustrating, I think. And so there's almost, I think they're almost scared to weigh in on too much of it. But I'm like, why is Vanna there if she's not going to weigh in on the Coco situation that like, you know what I mean? Like they're there for to talk for five seconds. and then, I don't know.

Well, she was there to, you know, have her, you know, pillow face, filter, glam, shiny on our TV screens. Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah, it's hard also. Just like that cast has so many people where they have to do like four or five rounds of like cycling in different people and couples and stuff. It's like, okay, even for a two full hour reunion special,

there's just like not, it's simultaneously like two. long and not enough time in a really strange way where it's like, okay, I hate that I'm still watching this, but also why haven't we heard about X, Y, or Z? 100%. Yeah, I thought that the reunion was fairly lackluster and not because of the host and honestly not because of them. It just felt like the focus was like on these ephemeral interviews they'd all done after the show ended, but we weren't showing clips of them and they weren't like directly quoting them. So it was sort of like when you did that, and they weren't even saying the names of they weren't saying call her daddy. They weren't saying.

Shelly said Nick Vale, which I thought was hilarious. But like it just felt like we were focusing on the wrong things. Yeah, it is. It's like almost like if you're going to, if you're going to talk about topics like that, you almost have to like editing wise, it feels like they're existing in their own kind of format. And it's like if you're going to talk about all those topics, like maybe you do need to take a page from the like housewives, Vanderpump playbook and be like, okay, we're going to roll footage of Call Her Daddy or of Nick Vale or whatever that it's like, yeah, we kind of can't have this conversation without

even like screenshots of stuff being put on the screen. Like the context does matter. Even if sometimes, and we'll talk about Orange County this season, like sometimes it can become a little bit too central. But like, you need the context if it's going to be the topic. And instead we get like two minute long montages of like lost footage from the show and like completely uncut deliberation footage, which actually that was pretty interesting. but like yeah and then but what do you think about like I don't know what the answer is here but I feel

like the production like timeline of it is really it's a difficult problem to solve for them because the show is live so like or essentially live so it's like we see it all happening in real time then they're they come back for like a month and then they film it doesn't air for another three weeks am i and brian pretended to be together on their on certain media appearance there's no way that they i mean the timing of them and following each other right before the reunion how do you do it where like are they should they be allowed to do podcasts before filming the reunion? So they film the reunion right away when they come back? Because it just felt it almost felt too like old hat too to me.

Yeah. There is something about the way that the people that leave the show enter this like weird vacuum of hanging out together and making content and going on podcasts and like seemingly having this like weird like influencer summer before it's like they're they're back in real life but not actually going back to their real lives

and it's like I almost yeah like would when filming the reunion like the second the last people get back to the US work better I don't know because then they haven't had time to like I know process anything or watch back anything but it is there's something there's something off about the timing of it right now

but I right as I don't know what the solution is. Yeah, it's hard. I guess because it's like on Love Island, like they're not doing, when we watch Housewives, the women are doing press while the season is airing, whereas like by the nature of Love Island being mostly live-ish,

like Amaya hasn't spoken out of the context of the show until after, yeah, it's. It's odd. It didn't hit right for me. Yeah, I do wonder for next season, assuming that it's, you know,

again, a big hit for them, like if they'll tinker, with the kind of format or timeline at all. Because the reunion was like a newer thing. I think they started it last year I want to say. And I'm a new Love Island person. So I'm not super like invested in how they do things necessarily. But yeah,

and I also just think that the podcasts of it all, the media of it all, it just played way too much into what they were talking about. I want to get your thoughts. We just got the trailer for the new season of Real House of Potomac. We did. And this has dovetailed really interestingly

with actually the day that this comes out as you're listening to this, the Grand Dom is free. She's free. She's free. Tuesday, September, whatever, September 2nd is Karen's release date from the clankty clank,

from Sing Sing. You better watch that bar. And it's so interesting because last week when this new release date, it sounds like we're talking about like an album dropping or something. When the release date was announced, people were like, oh, wait, is Potomac's?

still filming. Will Karen pop up for, you know, the finale or whatever? Turns out they're done filming. It's ready to go. Cut, print, moving on. This season is premiering beginning of October. And obviously, there's no Karen appearance in the trailer. That doesn't mean that there couldn't be something filmed and added on later. Karen's representation in the trailer, though, is that it's bookended by Giselle writing and narrating this weird letter. to Karen about how these hoes are really testing her patience. I was not necessarily expecting that type of Karen representation in the trailer. Me neither.

I was so curious how they would address it. Again, I was one of those two. I kind of thought they were still filming because I actually loved that they kept it so locked down. I had no idea what was going on in Potomac other than Monique coming back. I loved the letter thing. I thought, because Potomac will do these weird sort of like rose-colored glasses treatments to their trailers, which is, they're just like,

I can't be element to it. But I thought that it was a really, it presents Giselle as the Grand Dame right now in the group. It maintains her position at the top. And it also just, it sends the message like Karen's not here. We're moving forward because I think the rest of the trailer is very, this is a new era of the show.

Fresh start, back to our roots. But Karen, they're so a place for you here. Yeah. It's notably different from last season when Robin and Candice, who was not an OG, but really had embodied that role, kind of.

When they left the show, and we basically didn't, it was as if they hadn't existed. We weren't talking about them. They certainly weren't being, like, referenced in the trailer like this. And so I think it is, it's meaningful that Karen is still being, like,

really included as part of what makes up the full group of Potomac because, you know, like, if we never see Robin again, they don't give a fuck. But, like, she has to still be represented. Because I think ultimately Karen fucked up majorly, but she's a very popular person and really kind of integral to the show.

And I think the trailer to me felt like a continuation of that amazing last word union they had. And remember, they had a printed out framed picture of Karen on the couch with them, where so she was also represented there when she wasn't there. Yeah. Even from like a network perspective, it doesn't feel like Bravo is trying to like make us forget that Karen's not here. And they've done that before for other situations and people. And so they're alluding to it, but they're not getting weighed down with it,

which I think was the problem with Potomac for a few years there. They were getting weighed down with these issues. And it's like, I actually don't want it to be about the aftermath of Karen's DUI and the group. I want it to be about the aftermath of Stacey potentially hiring a boyfriend for the show. And look, I think that's what we're going to get this season because this trailer is pretty exciting. It's great. Good vibes.

It's, I mean, obviously, we'll see when the season premieres kind of like where the full season nets out. But like, watching this trailer, I was like hooting and hollering, having a good time. I had to rewatch some moments. Like, I, I feel like Potomac really has like gotten its mojo back in an exciting way since that reunion last season. A thousand percent. Stacey, one of the best big casting choices in a very long time.

Like, she just, all the dramas around her, you know? And I think she's still kind of going to be wishy-washy about it. But like that's just her way, I guess. Yeah, we get a glimpse of potentially Stacey's ex-question-mark husband being in the picture somehow. We don't know exactly what that looks like. Kind of vibe. We get Wendy and Ashley throwing out there that she's trying to get with Chris Samuels. And that's Monique's entrance cue.

Monique's entrance cue, you know, Kearna and. Stacey are I think multiple There's a lot of There's a lot of heat It looks like coming towards Stacy And I'm curious like This season like how she will kind of

Handle that Because I feel like last season Until the reunion she was kind of like People almost looked at her as like A weird curiosity That it was like Okay like I don't really know what's Happen with Stacy so much

But this season it seems like She's more like the target of And I'm weirdly think she'll handle it well. Yeah. You know, like, I don't know if she'll give us answers necessarily, but she seems like somebody who's like good at evading, but like, it would be good TV. I don't know.

I have faith in her in that position. I think that she seems like strong enough to handle it. Yeah. And like, and maybe a little delusional enough to handle it. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm very curious to see what Monique's return will be like. Because I feel like when she popped up, we saw those things of her at the DC Pride.

I kind of figured it was earlier in filming. but she's barely in the very end of the trailer. I'm thinking maybe she comes in more towards the middle, potentially. But unclear how involved she is. I think that it's very, what I'm interested in is her and Giselle, they have a lot of bad blood. And that Monique's final moment on the show was the binder reunion. So like that was, and then her and Wendy, I'm curious about

because Wendy's obviously historically been much more linked to Candice. Yeah. And obviously Candice and Monique have a big history. So I'm really curious, like, what those friendships will look like. Yeah, it's interesting to think about like with Giselle, with Wendy, and with Ashley, because they're the three women still on the show who were there with Monique. Like, we've seen on a lot of other franchises recently this idea of like what is kind of

the boundary of when you would lose trust with people that you're on this platform with, whether it's being recorded by somebody, whether it's Lisa taking notes of what somebody he's saying in Sevilla, like, to me, like, that receipt binder and Wendy brings it up in the trailer, like, that's something where I could see that being, like, sort of a sticking point of her coming back in the group of, like, the last time we saw you, you had this, like, coordinated file cabinet, trying, saying that you had information on all of us. And I think that's going to be an interesting thing to see, like, how deep we get into that and how, how they handle it of, like, she did something that could easily be seen as like an unforgivable offense, like, within the kind of like fourth wall, like friend group construct.

Right. And so like, yeah, like what is Giselle's incentive to like try to move forward with her? Not even from like a Candace's friend perspective, but from just like a personal of them too. You did this to me. Yeah, I totally agree. I feel like what gives me a lot of hope in that regard, is how Wendy and Giselle were able to move forward last season and particularly at the reunion where I feel like they really unlocked this dynamic between themselves.

That was like, they didn't have to be best friends, but they could like give each other shit without taking it really personally and seriously. And like that's what it's all about. The show is like kind of, you know, calling one another out, but in a fun way, I think that Giselle recalibrated. I think that with Karen out of the picture, Jiselle knows that this is like kind of all in her shoulders in a lot of ways. Not fully.

but that gives me like, Giselle can basically like redo the formula she did with Wendy and how they move forward essentially, I think. Like have one big sit down, feel each other out after that, and like I think they'll be okay. Yeah, and if if you're right about potentially Monique coming in more toward the end of filming, then it's not so much like, oh,

Giselle has to be fine with being, you know, besties with Monique. It's more like she has to agree to film one good, sit down. Exactly. And the rest is group scenes. Right. Group scenes. Maybe she comes on a trip, but she doesn't have to like kind of let her. She's not going to be like holding the champagne flute. But how funny would it be if like maybe Monique represents this like good old days, you know, back in the day, Potomac thing? I don't know. I think that it feels right. Like something about it just feels like the the formulas are there. They've balanced it out. Yeah. What's your prediction for how the

the Karen release is going to potentially factor or not factor into the season. I feel like they will do a pickup scene with her for the finale. That's my hunch. I... Because I did think they were filming and so... Yeah. But I think that it'll be a pickup scene. I had a vision like a lightning bolt the other day of what if Giselle has visited

Karen and picturing us getting like the scene of Giselle like parking in the parking lot and going in. And then coming out after. She's in the car. No, no, no, not, like, not Karen in the car. Oh, I see. During a visit. Because they probably can't film the visit.

But Giselle could be like, I just saw Karen and like, who, it was tough. Well, that would be chill. I mean, I would love that. And it's, I like that, I love that vision that you have. I feel like last, this week has felt sort of like the prison week for Housewives because we got several pictures from Jen Shaw behind bars. And it's really interesting. comparing those two because we have heard not one single Pete from Karen, not one photo. We didn't see her a mugshot.

She has kept it locked the fuck down. And that's obviously intentional. And so that makes me even more sort of like, how is she going to do this? I am kind of holding my breath on Tuesday or like this week, next week, whatever of like, are we going to get like a grainy paparazzi photo that's like the first time Karen's been seen since. her release. Is she going to post? She should get ahead of it. Hey, y'all, I'm back.

Or like, thanks for standing by me. I don't know what to expect. I don't remember like when Teresa got released. I feel like it was such a long time ago. But also like it was so clear that it was the whole thing was being filmed. And also the whole thing for them as a public figures and like as housewives, it's like you want to show growth. And that's like it's hard to know like has her, I don't think her core personality has

changed. Like she sold Karen Hugar. but like how much is she going to embrace like the untouchable grand domit of it all or she needed a little more humble I don't know like we shall see how are you going to play it we will but I think she should get ahead of it posted really at iconic Instagram day after Labor Day Cameron do stop taking pictures of yourself you just got out of jail you just got out of jail take the picture though Karen I want to see it take the picture I'm going to be happy to see Karen Uger I am I know she needed to go away for a minute, but, and she paid for her crimes.

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Get started at Redfin.com. Own the dream. Let's talk about Orange County. Let's. I'm so curious. We've talked a little bit about it offline, but like overall this season so far, like, where is your, I would say, like, frustration to enjoyment level of kind of the direction that this season has taken in regards to like the bloggers, the Kiki Monique of it all? How have you kind of received this season? So I feel like episode to episode, I'm on the enjoyment side of it.

Like, I'm enjoying the season when I'm watching it, I'm not, but then when I take a step back and like, I think bigger picture and I'm talking about it on podcasts and stuff, I'm like, damn, we're really relying so heavily on this, like, four examples of the same thing, basically. And it's all centered on the same person mostly. And that's what I'm like, that I don't love the direction of it. So like individually episode-wise, I'm like, it's fun, it's entertaining, it's good tea, it's good drama. But I think the direction of the show, I'm not worried about it necessarily, like on a Jersey level, but these are the kind of things that Jersey was getting in trouble with at the end of its run. And that gives me a little bit of pause. Yeah, it's one of those things where I feel like it's sort of about like the overall health of the franchise.

And I feel like a really, really healthy show. If you look at the ensemble cast, there's like, it's like you're looking at the garden and there's like so many flowers sprouting up and you maybe have to pick a few to focus on for the season. But it's like there's all this other stuff that we could look at. And I feel like with OC this season, because these couple of storylines and, you know, sort of central arguments are taking up so much of the oxygen, it's like I don't actually. know how much else there even would be to focus on. But like it kind of feels frustrating that we're not really, it doesn't feel like anything else really has room to like stand out. And there are things where it's like I would be interested to see a little bit more of like how Shannon is, you know, moving forward or not moving forward with Tamara. Like that's not really becoming a

central thing this season. Like it doesn't feel like Heather really has that. And much like personal, not personal storyline, but like, we're not getting a lot of like one-on-one dynamics that aren't tied back to the central like Katie and Gretchen and Tamara and Jen and Kiki Monique and all of, like it feels like everything is a little, yeah, everything is a little too like interwoven around one thing versus kind of like the web being more spread out. And we'll get there. But like even like that scene at the end of this episode, it's like, it just felt like way too many cooks in this kitchen. Like why are we? all weighing in on this for like another week in a row.

Yeah. And it's all against one person. And I was talking about somebody, I was talking about this with somebody recently where it's just like, I'm shocked at how many housewives have still not learned the lesson that like the gang up is never going to go the way you want it to. It's almost always going to flip on its head and a lot of people are going to sympathize with the person who's on their own. Not every time, not fully. But it's it's another, it feels like another gang up situation. and I think this is a little bit different because I think that this is a lot of

a mess of Katie's own making. Yeah. But it still doesn't land when you see eight women coming at one of them. Yeah, I'm curious like where do you kind of because I agree that I think it's like Katie has made some poor choices in how she has

moved through this group and through this larger world. But I do kind of, I see your point that like that doesn't mean that she is a bad housewife who we don't want on the show anymore. Yeah, it's a really hard balance.

And I, there are a lot of things that I think we're promising about Katie. It just feels like almost between seasons or going into the show. She just got way too in deep and like just,

she was clearly talking to all these different people. Clearly. Like there's so much smoke around that. Like I don't care with, I don't even remember. really care what all the specifics are. Like, and I also like, people are like, oh, the other women talk, talk to Instagrammers and bloggers and podcasters, but they don't get called out for or caught because they aren't being as messy with it. And like, there's a difference. And also like talking,

and also you and I were both of the Heather Dubrow Press Day and then people compare that to what Katie's doing. And it's like having an open, a press day out in the open is very different than secretly meeting up with Instagram accounts and like talking, clearly talking about your classmates to them. Yeah. And I think also like the the difference of it being sort of in support of the show where it's like when you're doing press during the season airing of the show that you're on and like also like press that is sanctioned by the network and all of that. Like that's a different because Katie's doing that too. I mean Katie's having a press day. Katie's on watch what happens live. That's as they all should. I They all do that. Like, come on the couch. I'm here. But like the difference is like the between seasons, you know, this dinner that Katie Gretchen and Jen had with their respective partners at Mastros in the fall before filming even started.

Like, we shouldn't really know about that. Like it's, you know, like it shouldn't, it doesn't need to be some big secret. but like I would imagine when they're like mapping out the season from a production standpoint like you actually don't want a dinner that happened months before cameras were up where there's disagreement about what was said to be like central to because it wasn't filmed the show there's no way to check them on it and like I don't that wouldn't have really come up if there wasn't this weird like grapevine Kiki Monique said that Katie said that Gretti said that Gretchen. said this thing. And I've talked about kind of how it's difficult to even speak what's happening because there are so many layers of who said what telephone. Yeah. Like telephone like just like wires crossed. But yeah, like it just is it makes for like a little bit of a frustrating viewing experience when some of the most important conversations to the drama didn't happen on the show. Didn't happen on the show. And then also happened between two people who

aren't on the show. Right. Like we have the Kiki Monique point of it. We have the reputable journalist part of it. Uh-huh. Those people, I mean, Kiki got her time on the show,

which I'm glad she got a chance to, like, share her side of it. But I think that like, if you're having the podcaster, Instagram or her journalist on the show, we're in too deep, I think.

Yeah. It's one thing to show the clip from Jeff Lewis Live that somebody was messy on and we talk about that. It's another to like have a full on meetup with them at lunch. Yeah. Like, that's a lot. Yeah, it was like this past season on the Valley when it was like Kristen calling, whatever her name is from Pilates to be like, did this person say this?

And it's like, I don't know. This is not. Yeah. I can't process this. To me, it's just a signal that like, all right. Right. That it's like there are, there are seven women on this show talk to each other. Yes.

Totally. Fight with each other. Speak behind each other's backs to each other. Exactly. Yeah. And as you said, there's not enough of that happening. Yeah. There's not enough of that happening.

And I think there's, Like, I love when a Housewives franchise has, like, side characters. Of course. Like, I think it's fun when, you know, you can, on Atlanta, it's like, oh, we need to bring in Portia's sister. Or, oh, like, we need to ask, you know, whether, you know, Candy in the Gang, whether, you know, Don Juan said this. Like, it's, there's a difference between having, like, people that aren't full cast members participate sometimes. and having this weird like fourth dimensional layer of the press or the blogger. Yeah.

Because that's not something that like this Kiki Monique scene really is an exception to that rule where it's like normally like if you're talking about something in that space like it's not going to be those people don't come on the show. I do think like I think that within the context of this season having Kiki come on was kind of necessary. I agree. But also, she's the, her and Katie had lunch. Why are her and Katie not going to get coffee? Yeah, that is such an interesting thing that it's like, in theory, or what we're being told, like, her, whatever relationship Katie had with her is the beginning point of this. Yeah, we're skipping Katie in this. So then, like, Kiki is clearing the air with Gina and Gretchen, which is useful. But then Katie still has a completely, opposite, you know, it's still a, she said, she said now between Kiki and Katie. Yeah. And like, I'm inclined to believe Kiki Monique because I know her.

And also because she didn't fail a polygraph on camera. But like, yeah, it just, it does feel like, okay, so like we're never actually getting like the technical definitive answer here. Which is just like, all right, then what are we doing here? You know, and like last week's episode, I just felt like they were all caught in a lie except for Tamara basically in relation to the situation. Yeah. I just like nobody's really,

it feels like nobody's fully representing what actually happened. I mean, I don't know how much stock I put in these, you know, rent a polygraph tests that Emily set up at her Persian New Year party, which I have to say the Persian New Year party, I love the inspiration of celebrating, you know, Shane's. Yes, mother. And his culture and their heritage.

This was one of the least vibey parties I've ever seen on house size. There were some nice decorations. I'm sure the food was delicious. It was literally only the seven women with like no music, no entertainment, no background. It truly felt like we're having this party just to get everyone in the same place for these polygraph tests. They show up immediately, fill out their questionnaires and have the lie detector. Nothing else was happening. It was like happy Persian New Year.

Oh, what year is it? That's not important. go fill out your form. They should have been two separate events. It should have been, Emily, been like, everyone come over.

I have a surprise for you guys. Persian New Year sounds like it should be the most fun party. Yes, totally. And that spread book delicious. People should have been, like people should have worn like traditional dress. Like it would have, it could have been really great.

It was a very loose concept. Okay. Katie's going to go throw up a little bit in the powder room because she's so nervous. And then everybody's going to go take their lie detector. I can't. In two separate rooms. Two separate rooms. I do love that it's like they had set up these like black box polygraph like tents within her house. Like where were those like in her bedroom?

Yeah, it was like guest bedroom and finished basement. But the polygraphs are, it's interesting because now essentially everyone kind of gets cleared of all wrongdoing, including Gretchen. And Katie is really the one who's been hung out to drive. I hear of like, hey, you failed every question. I'm anti-polygraph in general. Anti-polygraph in general. I do think the editing, I will give the points to the editors of watching Katie and Gretchen do

their polygraph tests simultaneously. And having those stitched together was very, it felt very high stakes and compelling. But then when the results are shared, it's kind of like, okay, what now? because they're saying that Katie lied about answering all the questions. She's not going to admit that she lied about the questions. Meanwhile, Gretchen, again, is contradicting something that we have on camera of her saying that she went to the hospital after Naked Wasted, which she said to Tamara and Shannon, which is just like so insane.

But she passes the polygraph where she says that she didn't go to the hospital. And the only person who gets called out is Katie, even though Tamara and Shannon are sitting right there. They don't call Gretchen out for some reason, even though they heard it in the car last week. So weirdly, even though Tamara and Gretchen still are not friends, it feels like there has been sort of a consensus among the group that, like, Katie is going to be the one who is the villain here.

And it's like, okay, so no smoke for Gretchen. We're not still really mad at Tamara. Like what kind of, where does this land? Well, it's like Gina and Emily, they were sort of talking really weirdly about this. They were like when they were sort of like, this is going to be a really pivotal. Yes. memorable night for our group. And like, and Gina said at one point, like there's a plan or something like.

She said something along those lines. Yeah. And I was like, so this just, now it just feels sort of like a setup. And again, I see a lot of wrong in how Katie has handled the situation. Right. It just felt like they went into this thing wanting to almost like, not frame Katie, because she, she did the polygraph herself. She could have told, told the truth or past it. But it just felt like.

And then after the, after her results are revealed, it's just like, they like attack her. Right. Like after those results, it is basically like Katie has been voted off the island on Survivor. And it's like, we think you should leave. Yeah. And she's like, fine, I guess I will. I'm going to go cry to producer Kendall on the sidewalk about how I didn't lie. And it's like, I mean, I still, it still feels like I'm stuck in the middle here because it's like I do believe that Katie is lying about.

at least some of this stuff. But at the same time, like, even if she is, I don't necessarily think that her being, like, you know, shamed off the island is necessarily the best thing for the trajectory of the season. Okay, so let's say she's off the island. She hasn't gone on the trip later on the season. Right. What are they all going to do? What are they going to talk about?

Yeah. Suddenly the topic, again, is going to be like, does Tamara have feelings? So then you pull the one common enemy out of it, like, what happens. And I just think that like they're all sort of telling a version of like a lie. Like I think that I think Gretchen's lying because she did tell Tamara that she went to the hospital. I think she did tell Katie and Janet this dinner that she went to the hospital and drugs were found in her system. Maybe she didn't say I was drugged. So then Katie brings that to Katie Monique and maybe she repeats it in a way that's like she was drugged or they were drugging her system.

And then maybe along the two other people in this telephone game, it was repeated. as Gretchen was drugged by Tamp. At some point, at some point the word Ruffy came into it. And I don't necessarily think that, like, I don't think I believe that Gretchen told them at that dinner that she was roofied by Tama. I think she told them that she went to the hospital and the toxicology report

said drugs. And now she's totally lying about, she's lying too. And then Jen is lying to protect Gretchen it seems. And then we have this also two different stories about when Slade called Matt. Katie says it's because Slade was like you need to cover for Gretchen.

but then Gretchen says it's because he was like, what's Katie saying about Gretchen? So it's like those are two very, we'll never know about that conversation. A lot of people talking. Yeah. We'll never know about that conversation. And then the weird kind of like wild card thing that gets brought into this episode

is that Kiki Monique also tells Gina that Katie brought up this comment that she made last season about, oh, are you wearing an, is that an Asian designer? And so it sounds like Katie. was portraying it as like a comment that she took as racially charged and like negative. And Gina is, Gina's explanation for this kind of like caught me off guard because it just like wasn't what I was expecting where she was like, when Katie came on the show, she talked about wanting to show off Asian designers. And I thought that was really cool. But then she got these stylists and started wearing all of these like high fashion, you know, like Balman, Jivanshi, like the more.

like classic like name brand fashion labels. And so then it sounds like Gina brought up, oh, is that an Asian designer kind of as like a dig at Katie for like abandoning this goal of showcasing Asian designers. Which like to me I'm like, okay Gina like I'm not sure that that's like exactly the right like oh yeah. Sick burn. You're wearing like burberry instead of an Asian designer. but it is it's different than maybe the way that Katie was yeah because Gina's saying like I thought it was cool that you were going to show Asian designers but then you kind of didn't whereas Katie it sounded like was saying that Gina was being like condescending about the Asian designers themselves

it's it's tricky and if totally and if Katie took it as like insensitive then she's very much valid and feeling that way right but I also think I do think that maybe Gina meant it in the way meant it. But I'm also like, just because Katie said she wanted to spotlight Asian designers and the things that she was wearing on the show doesn't mean that every single thing she wore had to be from an Asian designer. Like she could, she was probably mixing in different names. And right. Also, it's like, Gina, like, you could be spotlighting Asian designers. There's, there's no rule that like Katie's the only person. Like, if you think that's such a cool goal, then like, I mean, I don't know. Gina's wearing mostly like Amazon basics. But like. going. No shit. You know. I love an Amazon purchase. No, but it's like, it's just the wrong.

It's just like, why to make this an issue, Gina? Like, it's just not going to be well for you. Right. And I feel like probably for Gina, like the quicker we move on from that mini controversy, the better. Good for Kiki for bringing it out. Good for Kiki for bringing it up. Yeah, she definitely like, she's like, by the way. Dropped that in there.

She was like, because we're here, I wouldn't feel right. It is, it's interesting to think about. We're still probably only like halfway through this season and Katie is seemingly making an exit. Like, I mean, Tamara is still on the outs with most of the group, more or less. And she's even having problems with Heather. I'm curious if that's going to build or if that's going to kind of mellow out. What do you think? I mean, I think that the kind of group-wide narrative of Tamara playing the victim is something that they could get a lot of mileage out of.

and I think that Tamara, because she is so, you know, because she has such a history with a lot of these women of kind of doing them wrong and being kind of a shitty friend. Like, I think if the gang up target in Katie leaves the building, Tamara would be an easy, secondary kind of villain for the rest of the season. Again, I don't know that that's like super interesting to watch for eight episodes or that like, aside from that like New Orleans like meltdown, like Tamara's kind of. kind of like on the sidelines right now. So like I don't think that I need like, if Shannon all of a sudden starts yelling at Tamara again, it's kind of like, okay, like, we get it. Yeah, it's also like, I want to believe that Tamara is genuinely like trying to do some work.

And so it's like let maybe let her cook over there. You know what I mean? Let her do the work. The polygraph saying it was a lie that she was told she was on the autism spectrum was a tough, tough look. The polygraph. She will never, Tamara will never admit that that that, was not exactly what was said.

I think I'm kind of missed what they were saying to Jen. What a Jen, didn't they catch Jen in a lie? Oh, yeah. Jen's lie was they asked if she has serious reservations about marrying Ryan, and she said no. And they said that that was a, she had a major reaction to that question.

So she lied badly. And then in the confessional, she kind of says like, yeah, you know, I don't, I'm not happy that that was caught as a lie, but I'm also not surprised because of how bad my divorce was. And like I don't want my kids to go through that again. So it was like, I guess I was glad that she was like kind of honest about the reaction to it being a lie. But then it's like why don't you just say yes?

Yeah. Because I think she still feels like she is supposed to say no to that question. And that's another thing. Like I feel like the Ryan and Jen stuff has been kind of sideline so far this season. But then just like, you know, we saw them. you know, wedding bikini shopping earlier in the season. And it seemed like they were kind of like all systems go for that like Malibu Beach wedding. But then just in the last couple episodes, I feel like Jen has been like a little bit more like,

we'll see. I don't know. And didn't they change their wedding date or something? Yeah, they've like pushed back like they're they're now seemingly like taking a bit more time versus like Ryan I think wants to get married tomorrow. And I'm like, I'm like it's taking a bit more time. let's get married next season on camera. Maybe.

Or maybe it's Gretchen and Slade will get married in 20 never. Maybe. A double wedding. They do like double dates these people. Oh my God, a double wedding. Gretchen and Slade, if they decided to actually get married on camera, that would be like such an eye roll, but also like such a gag. Such a gag.

Like after all this time. Like you had to bring her back for it to happen, you know? Do you think Gretchen's going to be back next season? if you had to predict it like right now. Yes. Yeah. Because I think that it's going a lot better than Alexis Bellino's return did. And I think they wouldn't want to do two in a row of bringing back notable former women as friends for one season.

Yeah. That's kind of unsustainable to keep doing that. And like, I kind of hope, listen, I'm not like a big Gretchen person, honestly. Like I'm kind of neither here nor there on her. But I think that it's going better. But it's after this season. we can't be talking about what happened 15 years ago. That is kind of my, you know, obviously this season is fully filmed and edited, so this isn't

like helpful advice. But my kind of like, if I were, if this were happening live week to week, my like assignment for her for the rest of the season would be like get involved in some sort of conflict within the group that has nothing to do with Tamara or like what happened. Any talk about naked wasted, any of that. because I think that that's kind of, it feels like right now Gretchen is having an okay time this season, but all of the actual like substance that she's bringing to the show is so rooted in stuff that happened when she was on the show before or like in the years in between, like things that she

and Tamara said back and forth in the press or on Instagram or with her daughter or whatever. So like I think that if I would love nothing more than for Gretchen to like pick a fight with Emily or something random that it's like, oh yeah, like now you're actually like participating in the 2025 version of this group. It's like her and Katie are having an issue right now, but it's over. It ultimately ties back to naked waist in. Yes. And I do think that like, you know, having a former housewife reenter as a friend and having them having it be sort of based on, you know, something that happened. Like that's a good entry point. But getting hung up on it is another thing. Well, and that's what happened with Alexis. Yeah. And that's the thing. Yeah. And that's the thing.

I mean, like to tie it back to Potomac, like seeing Monique come back. We've got to talk about the binder. But also like if that if there's nothing new going on, I mean, granted, she's gotten divorced since the last time she was on the show. There's there's definitely fertile for sure ground to be covered there. But like she has to actually decide to cover it. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think that like they're, I'm trying to think about other examples of that happening. But like Cynthia didn't even have major conflict on Atlanta. But Cynthia's just like such a pleasure to having class. Right. But she was able to really exist in that. group talking about the current issues that were facing them. And she played a pivotal role, I think, and really kind of being somebody to talk to and moving information around.

That's not what Gretchen's doing right now. Yeah. And based on the press that Tamara has done during this season, I was going to say the other thing that I think Gretchen could do that would be a power move is like actually fixing things with Tamara. And based on what Tamara has said more recently, it doesn't seem like that's. Well, also the funny wrinkle about the whole thing is that Tamara and Katie are close right now, which is kind of crazy.

And like, Katie's alone on the after show, which I haven't watched, but we saw some little pictures. And I think that her and Tamara are like, I think she's close with Tamara right now. But they can't have them commentating on the season on the after show together because they're so at odds right now and in the season. I mean, that just, it's tough, though, because it's like that feels like such a friendship of opportunity. Absolutely. Like it reminds me of. like when Jackie was suddenly besties with Teresa a few years ago. It's a little bit like that. Yeah. And it's like, it's not. It's like, Tamara is like a little bit wounded and could use a friend.

Katie will not be on this show anymore if she doesn't find somebody. And so it's like, okay, you guys are two life rafts blowing in the wind right now. Yeah, it's giving that for sure. Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end DJ, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit redbull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer.

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It's the number one OBGYN recommended brand of emergency contraception, and it won't impact your future fertility. That's Freedom to Be. Use us directed. Okay, Gibson, we have come to a point in the show where it's time to share some opinions. So in honor of our, you know, beloved or however you feel about her, Tamara Judge, we, are each going to have one minute to share our opinions. Gibson, do you have, do you have an opinion locked and loaded? I have an opinion locked and loaded.

Okay. Does the guests go first? The guest goes first. Wow. Okay, so you have 60 seconds. Okay. Joe is going to put it on the clock. Okay.

My opinion is that Jen Shaw should not come back to the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City when she's released from prison in 363 days. I get the appeal. I get that it would represent this huge moment. Monica Garcia is out here saying, I think producers are going to add me and Jen Shaw back. It's going to be a ratings bananza. I don't think that's happening.

My opinion is that Jen Shaw, even though she's paid for her crime, she's done the punishment. I don't need to see her back on TV. I don't have the appetite to watch somebody who has defrauded the elderly and really not fully owned up to it until the 11th hour. Happy for her that Coach Shaw is back in behind bars with her celebrating their anniversary and releasing those photos. Great. She has somebody still running her social media. Great. She will always be a house.

She can always, you know, write a book. And maybe I'll read it. Maybe I'll hear about it. I don't need you on my screen anymore. It's just I think the women have moved on. The show has moved on. She was a dark shadow over the show for quite some time. So Jen Shaw, my opinion is that you should not return to the real house as a Salt Lake City.

Wow. That's your opinion. I, this is so crazy because my opinion is also about Jen Shaw. No. Is it the opposite? It's not the opposite. It's not the opposite. opposite. Okay. Okay. This is amazing. Sure. Okay. So my opinion, as Kivson just stated,

Jen Shaw will be released from prison in just less than a year. And I, I don't think that she is going to have that full-time snowflake immediately after she gets released. I don't think the show needs her in that way. But I do think that there is something bubbling up. There is something happening. Her agent, I believe, visited her in prison last week. He posted on his Instagram. story tagging her. It's starting to feel like the the shoppaganda is is starting to bubble up. And I do think that we're not going to see her back on Salt Lake City in a full-time capacity, but I think that there is going to be a post-prison project. Something is happening. There's going to be a book deal. There's going to be maybe like an A&E, like Life After Lockup, like TLC,

you know, there's going to be some sort of like documentary, maybe even like the housewife and the shaw the shav fraud what's it called that one of those housewife and the hustler house no that was erika james there i'm over a minute this is messy but i think that the the the renaissance is is coming when she gets released and i think that there will be a plan and we'll see what it is i don't know i don't know if that's an opinion but like i it's a prediction it feels like the it feels like the gears are starting to turn in just in the last month or so like maybe they knew that this release state was going to get moved up she has a year it seems from every report we've gotten from every photo we've seen it seems like jensha has made prison her bitch i agree

she's gonna come out like in the best shape of her life she's her you know her fillers have been dissolved or whatever however that works she looks good she looks good she looks healthy. I feel like she's happy. I feel like she's going to, the kind of person that is going to go to prison for fraud

and come out of prison with another business plan. And like, maybe it will feel fraud adjacent. But it will be legitimate somehow. One would hope.

If she knows what's good for her. I just think like she, it seems like she has been attacking the prison life fully enough that like she, will come out of there like hot and ready like a little Caesar's pizza. Listen, I am not against her milking this, milking this story, telling her story, talking about

it being behind the bars with Elizabeth and Galane. Tell us about it. I just don't want it on The Real House of Salt Lake City, which I think is like, it is the crown jewel of the network right now. I don't need her to bring her darkness back to it. And it also just feels like we revert back to season three. And I don't need that. Like, the show's moved on.

You know what could be iconic. And again, I don't know if I'm endorsing this. Because like I said, the shop agandas happening, but I don't know if I'm fully falling for it. It's, yeah. If they stick to the same production schedule, she could get released approximately three weeks before dancing with the stars. Premier's next fall. See, that I can co-sign. Jen Shaw.

Have Karen Reid and Jen Shaw on the same. Jen Shaw in the ballroom. Listen. That, okay, because that I think it was like. That's perfect. Watching her. Watching her on Dancing with the Stars would not require the same amount of like personal buy-in of her story. Whereas like I do feel like if or when she comes back to Real Housewives as any kind of full-time cast member, we will have to, she will have to get us on her side again.

And on Dancing with the Stars, obviously, you need like votes and stuff, but like it's less. But I think Bravo people would be more inclined to like vote for her there than to support her on her screen. I mean, if she went on Dancing with the Stars, I would be so pissed if she went off week one. Yeah, beyond. Yeah, beyond. And the other person she would have to win over for any return to happen in any capacity is Andy Cohen, who she's stiffed on multiple occasions. Yeah.

For a sit-down interview and for her skipping the reunion last minute. So, like, I don't know if any housewife has returned to Bravo after, like, getting on his bad side so intensely. So I think it's got in her room. I can just picture Dancing the Shah, Shasha. No, Dylan. It's Jen. It's Jen and Pasha.

Back to this, but also, where's the popcorn? It's Jen and Mark. It's Jen and Taylor Swift's background dancer who's now a pro-dancing at Good the Stars. Jen and Ezra? Sure. Listen. Our friend Abby would have all the tea on that. She's the dancing with the stars.

I can't, I don't know. We'll see. None of us know what's going to happen with Jen Chott. I can't believe we both did that about it. There's something bubbling up. Well, it was like with Karen getting released. It was Prison Week. It was Housewise Prison Week.

It's Prison Week. It's like the new shark week. Happy anniversary, Jen Shaw and Coach Shaw. Gibson, thank you so much for being here. Tell everyone where they can follow you and listen to your podcast. The podcast is called Gabbing with Gibb, wherever you're at your podcasts. Follow my podcast Instagram at Gabbing with Gibb. That's where I post all my tweets and my clips and more followers there.

Great. Well, thank you, Gibson. Thank you everyone for watching, listening. Don't forget to rate, review, subscribe, follow. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like that. for. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's

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