Mention It All - Rinna’s Future & The Bad Weather Breakdown Ft. Sarah Galli (RHOBH Reunion, RHOSLC)

Episode Date: October 20, 2022

Sarah Galli, host of Andy’s Girls podcast, returns to the studio to dig through the darkness of RHOBH and RHOSLC with Dylan. Back at the Beverly Hills reunion, they debate Rinna’s future on the show, and why Kyle may be in a bad position. Then, as the RHOSLC trip to Arizona concludes, they discuss Whitney and Heather’s rift and hilarious legal conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So good, so good, so good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom Rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince, Sam Edelman, frame, and free people. Join the Norty Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Betches Media presents.

Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, both. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I'm Dylan Hafer, and today I am joined once again in the studio by a favorite guest of mine,

a friend of mine, a fellow BravoCon 2020 survivor. Please welcome back to the podcast, the host of the Andy's Girls podcast, Sarah Galley. Oh, my God. It's such a pleasure to be here. Can I also just say that the only... major edit I did on our Andy's Girls BravoCon episode was to remove the line, I'm a Bravo Con Survivor, which I thought was too much, even though the following two-hour episode is us dragging certain aspects of it, but I was like, wait, this might be too much. And I took it out.

I regret that maybe. I don't say that in any sort of serious way, aside from the fact that it was a long-ass weekend and we have persevered. And now we are sitting down to record together. for the second time this week. Because I had the pleasure of coming on your podcast this past Monday, fresh off of the BravoCon experience. And we really got into it. So if you want more in-depth BravoCon content, go check that out on Andy's girls.

Of course, I talked about BravoCon a lot with another Sarah, Sarah here on Tuesday. There are some things that I, I feel like from this episode of Beverly Hills that we're going to talk about feel a little bit relevant to some of the over the weekend. Mishigas, as my people say. Shout out. Yes. Just because Beverly Hills has become such a lightning rod of weirdness in these last days, weeks, months. And the whole Lisa Rina situation of it all just feels like.

There's something strange going on and I don't know if she doesn't want to be there anymore or if she just really in some deeper level feels like she needs a break or wants a break or it's a little hard to figure out what is going on with Lisa Rina at this point. Well, I think that's such a good point. And I think that there is a level of confusion here because she plays a part on social media of the woman who doesn't give a fuck who's inciting chaos, doing a dirty delete where she posts something she knows is going to get a lot of attention wrapped up in controversy, wrapped up in a bacon wrap scallop. Like she knows that she is going to, she's looking for attention. Then she does a dirty delete.

And then she makes fun of people reacting to the things she's. says, she then goes on the reunion and talks about how sensitive she is. We see her at BravoCon, you know, in commercial breaks for the Legends Ball. She's completely isolating herself, just looking unhappy. And it's like, well, listen, we're all sensitive, I think, to a certain point. And certainly being a public face in that sense adds a level of complexity to the idea of sensitivity, but she is looking for negative attention. I don't know which Rina we're supposed to care about more. The Rina we see on the show, which is someone who is very complicated

and used to be a villain we enjoyed. And for many of us, it's like a villain who's just there at a Ville versus the person she is on social versus the person she showed us or the way she was behaving at BravoCon. It was very, it's very confusing to figure. out why we should care. Well, and I think a lot of the stuff that comes up in this second part of the reunion is kind of behavior that she did either on the season or on social media and kind of giving her a chance to explain or to own it, baby, or to apologize. And there are a couple instances where she does, but she is finding a lot of places to

deflect or to maybe give an excuse. like with this, the thing with Garcell's book, we find out that it was not actually Erica who threw the book in the trash, which was a whole huge thing on social media months ago that Erica posted this photo of the book in the trash. We find out that it was actually Rina who threw the book in her trash. And then she sent the photo in a group text that Garcel was not in. So presumably everybody is kind of talking shit about Garcel in this group text is what I would infer from that. Right, which was a bigger reveal. And then Erica thought the photo was funny, so she posted it on social media after Garcel used the clip of her saying you can look, whatever. It's like, it's one of those things where it's a dumb thing, but the fact that finding out six months later that actually it was completely different than our public knowledge of the situation,

and it originated from Lisa Rina. But then she doesn't really take responsibility for that because she says that the reason she did it was because Garcel included this thing about Amelia's eating disorder in the book and they had agreed not to say anything negative about the kids. And I thought Garcell and Andy kind of was pointing out that it's like she literally just referenced a situation that happened on the show. She wasn't talking shit about Amelia in the book.

So many thoughts. Starting with who gives a shit about the book being thrown in the trash. It's hard because there are actual stakes here and all actual terrible things that have happened on social media. Most obviously what happened to Garcell and Jacks. That caring about a book being thrown in the trash is so ridiculous. And the amount of time they devoted to that, like it was some big reveal, was weird to me. A lot of us knew it was happening because an account had gotten insider stories.

scoop. So many of us saw that that was like one of the big uh-la-la moments, but I watched it and I was like, even if I didn't know that, I'm thinking like, why are we talking about this so much? And also, it's such a drag to Garcel whose face looked pained. And I don't know how much of that was editing or anything else, but it was so awkward and uncomfortable. And the only information gained from that or gleaned from that, which I was interested in, was the fact, as you said, that they were talking shit about her, which Garcell said, this happened because in a group chat, they were making fun of her, which I think is ridiculous.

I also think I've discussed a lot on Andy's girls because it's come up so much on BH this season. And I've written about this for The Daily Beast, the incredibly problematic way that production and editing have talked about Crystal's experiences with body dysmorphia and an eating disorder and how dangerous that can be. when positioned in the way that the show chose to do it. And I thought it was kind of weird that the women on the cast sort of disavow responsibility for their behavior. And yet Rina is saying that Garcel harmed her child when, as you said, she's talking about what happened on the show, but also like to suggest that Garcel was making light or asking. writing in a way that was negative about her daughter's struggle with an eating disorder, which is what was discussed in the book, like Rina's dancing and behavior and lifestyle and

whatever and the influence that had, the way that that was positioned as a negative thing about Amelia, I thought, this is just my opinion and it truly doesn't matter. Everyone has the right to disagree. We should embrace that. But I thought that was manipulative. I thought that was manipulative of Rina to suggest, or she doesn't have the, understandably so, doesn't have the capacity for that kind of conversation, which she might not because it's her kid, but I didn't think Garcel did anything wrong. Yeah. And then, I mean, sort of taking off of whatever Garcell did or didn't say about Amelia in the book and kind of relating it back to her, you know, her eating disorder, then when you compare that to the discussion of Crystal's stuff on the,

this season and even in the first part of the reunion when Erica still doesn't really seem to see any big issue with the way she spoke to Crystal that it's like well I was saying what I would have done. So it's interesting that Rina takes such issue with it in this way that Garcell referenced it but you don't see her going out, you don't see her correcting Erica or explaining to Derreet why it was harmful or any of that stuff when it's on Crystal's behalf. Like it, the I think the most frustrating thing about watching this part of the reunion to me with Rina is just that she is so selective when she chooses to give a shit and stick up for someone and, you know, really like, you know, choose to care. And I think Sutton kind of brought that up. She asks Lisa why she hates her.

And Lisa's like, well, I don't. I'm sorry you feel it. Like, you know. And she's like, well, you, Lisa's like, I had a rough season and Sutton's like, well, you posted all this stuff about me after the season. And Lisa's like, well, I was hurt. And Sutton's like, but you didn't do it about anyone else. And like Lisa, I think if she had had just kind of a rough season overall and kind of was taking it out on everybody, it would be a little bit easier to kind of write it off as like,

wow, she really was going through it. But when it feels so targeted against these people who, against somebody specific, who hasn't really done anything to deserve that level of anger. And vitriol, it's like, okay, like, Lois's passing

didn't make you hate Sutton and not be mad at anybody else. And she, Rina has been mean and aggressive for many seasons, which many bravaholics have referenced online and was a question that Andy asked during the reunion, like, what's the excuse before? Because the problem here is that many people are not suggesting that grief can lead a person

to react in a way that they wouldn't normally. And that grief doesn't have an expiration date. It can last forever. I mean, there is a trauma, I think, that comes with losing a parent specifically that can lead a person to behave in different ways, not all of them great, but as you suggested, her explanation of grief does only seem focused on behavior relating to Sutton. And that doesn't explain the ways that she seemed to act identically to seasons before. That's what is frustrating, I think, for people.

Yeah, I was excited that Andy specifically asked a question about her behavior in the past and specifically referenced Denise Vanderpump and Kim Richards. Yeah. But then Lisa basically skated right around that and just said, you know, well, this season was really tough and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and kind of gave the same boiler plate stuff we've heard from her this season. And then Andy didn't really hold her feet to the fire at all. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

Can we please stay on Denise Vanderpump and Kim for just a minute longer and actually. Lisa's in the reunion chair force her to acknowledge the fact that this is behavior she has displayed in the past and while grief does not have an expiration date grief does have a beginning date and four years ago when she was saying Kim was close to death Lois was not grieving Lois

that's the thing I think with Andy sometimes there's a frustration of like even sometimes when he does ask the right question then he kind of just takes whatever they offer up on the first try. And it's like, okay, moving on. And I get that you have to like keep the show moving. But it's like, no, no, no. I think everybody watching would have liked just a little more focus on that.

So I don't typically watch Housewives Live, as you know. But I have made that sacrifice for the last couple weeks. And what I have been doing with one of my very good friends who we call the OG of the AG Damien Bolino is we feel. FaceTime each other during commercial breaks, like absolute psychopaths, which adds a level of chaos that I have become obsessed with. Especially when I forget and a minute goes by and then I FaceTime him and then we have 15 seconds before the episode returns. But the thing that we were talking about, one of the commercial breaks, which I continue to be befuddled by, especially with the second part of reunion, is that we were all told this was a dark fucking reunion cycle. So bad they couldn't pose for photos.

And I'm just wondering, like, when does that happen? Because we've seen isolated moments, obviously this episode with Kyle and Crystal and some other stuff where there does seem to be like genuine tension. But I'm not getting a vibe here that the reunion is even rewatchable. I'm not getting a vibe here that we're getting good. What I'm getting is like stilted, awkward, not really anything stuff, which is weird to me. for a season that has felt very dark and at points problematic. Like there's just something about this where I'm like, I don't get that you guys filmed for 75,000 hours that day.

And it was really tense. I'm not getting that energy from the episode. That could also just be me, but I'm not getting a sense here that this episode is like so wild. Yeah, to me it's not so much that it's wild. I think that there is kind of a... a layer of something just feels a little bit icky almost. Yes.

And you can see that you referenced before Garcell's face a lot of the time kind of listening to these conversations or when people are speaking to her or even you can, it's a little bit pained and that it feels like a lot of these topics, even if it's not explosive drama or so entertaining, that they're talking about things that really are impactful on some deeper level. You know, Garcel, getting this book published and that kind of achievement

and then finding out whether this was the first time she found out or not, that there had been kind of this back channel of people saying probably not very nice things about it, that is hurtful on probably a deeper level to her than just like, I threw the book in the trash. And even, and then when you have, You know, Crystal and Garcell both clearly have a lot of feelings about certain things that have been said or posted within this group. And the idea that things can come through and have microaggressions or, you know, kind of an air of just being something that it's like, I don't really think you know what this is saying or what kind of how this looks or how this makes me feel.

and then the idea that when they do bring those issues up, it's so, you know, it's seen as so taboo within the group that when they're like, you don't think that anyone in this group could be racist, do you? And it's like the answer has to be no because can you imagine in that reunion room if Garcell was like, I mean, I know, like, it just, it kind of puts them in an unfortunate position

where it's like we should be able to talk about this stuff, but because, you know, it's like five white women being like, you don't think we're racist, do you? It's like, what is Garcel supposed to say? What is Crystal supposed to say? There's no right answer other than, no, of course not. Well, there's no positioned answer aside from, of course not. And it gets into the thing here that nobody wants to talk about,

which is very complicated, which I as a white woman have struggled with, admittedly so, which is the idea that, like, you might not be racist with a capital R, but you can do racist things. And what we're talking about right now is the idea that there is only one option. Like microaggressions are hard to understand. So we can only talk about intent when it is directly related to the idea of a person being racist. And that's not the world in which we live. And you can be a person who doesn't intend to say or do racist things who says or does racist things. Like, how are we going to actually talk about this if we refuse to acknowledge it because

everyone is so afraid of the R word? And that's what I thought was really fucking problematic about even when you think about things that were discussed on reunions previously or in conversation previously, the idea that Rinna said she didn't want to talk about race on the show, which came up at a prior reunion. Like, all of the dots are connecting here and her behavior on social media and a last of depth that Rina has, an awkwardness and a nervousness, but also an ownership in a conversation that Rina shouldn't be the one to lead. And yet, her responses are what carries. Like,

okay, if these women aren't races with a capital R, there's no longer a problem. Let's move on. And it is that interest in moving on about topics that are really complicated without even allowing the door to remain open to this, which is fucked. Right. And I think, with Garcel, obviously her lived experience is as a black woman, and this informs so many things about her, her life and her experiences and her feelings and how, you know, just how she goes through the world. And I think when Rina and others, I think, are, you know, on different levels, guilty of this too, when they're trying to leave that out of the conversation, by default, Garcel is going to feel like she isn't fully accepted or can't fully bring her experiences to the group.

When Renna is saying that post about we can't say anything negative about Garcel or Crystal because then we're we're racists. All of a sudden. I think it's only about Garcell. Okay. Yeah. It's like may. I mean, of course there is there are going to be people online who are throwing wild. accusations out there or jumping to conclusions. But it's like, if Garcel is really somebody that you

care about or, you know, have respect for on any level, you should be able to have that dialogue back and forth where you can come to an understanding and really, you know, feel what her, where she's coming from and everything that that carries with it without just jumping to the thing of, well, if I'm not your best friend, it's being. because I'm a racist. So now I can't, now I'm forced to say nice things about you. And it's like, damn, wow, really feeling the love from you there. Like, that's not better. And the thing is that Renna was so clear. Like that Instagram story was very clear. And yet the focus is now on Garcell's reaction and Garcell's absolution of what Rinna said. And it's like, babe, like,

you fucking said it. Like, it just, it's, it sucks because I just think that there's a level, obviously, which gets into the idea of microaggression, even in the way that these questions are being framed, in the way that the reunion has been strategized, that puts so much pressure, like, the onus of this on Garcel. And also, not to, like, sidebar, but this whole fucking book in the trash thing is so dumb and childish in a way that's, like, a nothing burger to me. But then you get into what's actually in the book, like Garcell's interaction with Bill Cosby. And I just think to myself, wow, Rina has the chills. Bitch, you would have known what was in the book if you fucking read it.

Like, you threw away Garcel talking about nearly potentially being sexually assaulted by Bill Cosby. And you're saying, oh my God, I got the chills. You fucking threw this away. Imagine being Garcell talking about experiences she may not have shared publicly before. and the level of disrespect, you're not connecting the dots. It's like, oh my God, I'm so sorry that happened to you.

You threw away her sharing that story, you stupid bitch. Right, like you missed your chance to be the one that's like, wow, that's so brave. Thank you for sharing your truth because you threw the truth in the trash. You threw the truth in the trash. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders.

That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Study.

And play. Come together on a winter. Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal, everything you need, to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs.

Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 premium and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at Windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th, terms at AKA.m.S.C.C. I can't get to a really complicated question. It's really complicated.

Guys, this is a, mention it all is a safe space still and I have recorded together. Is it? It is now.

I'm making it. So look at me. I'm just like, Beverly Hills Housewife. I'm like, okay, now I'm pulling, we're like a panel

at BravoCon. Get to the question. Okay. This is my question. Hi, I'm Susan from Alabama. And first off, I need to tell you

an eight-hour story my life before I ask you your favorite color. Do you want Brenna to come? back. I think I do. It's complicated.

I think I do. And the thing is, okay, so first of all, I, at the top of my notes was stuff about Diana, which we literally haven't even mentioned because they, deservedly. They closed the laptop on Diana four minutes into this segment. I clocked it. And that was including previously on. So I think at this point, we all agree that it is safe to assume Diana Jenkins will not be returning to Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.

It's the last time we'll see her on camera ever again. Like, it would be shocking if she came back. So, assuming that we are now a group of seven plus Kathy or Cherie or whatever, seven housewives that we have this season, I don't really have major complaints about the cast. I think there are, I think there are things that frustrate me about the specific situation. and maybe about kind of the overall tone of this season. But when I think about it, I don't actually think I have,

I don't think my issues are with the makeup of the cast. And I think maybe they could bring in somebody new. Maybe somebody who's a housewife could get demoted. I don't know. I haven't really, I don't really know exactly what I think the cast should be next season. But when you talk about building a cast and ensuring that they're going to be interesting storylines to follow and things like that. I just have never quite felt like firing Rinna is the best path to that next season.

I will say there are certain other developments at the reunion that have sort of sparked something that I think could be really interesting next season, like this kind of Erica and Lisa a little bit more on an island together. And it feels like Derreet and Kyle have sort of separated themselves just. a little bit, and we saw that at the end of the season when Erica had her freak out in Aspen and was like, I don't give a fuck about anybody but myself. Kyle was not on board with that. You know, there was kind of a little more friction within the Fox Force, if you will. So I think that is an interesting thing that we could follow into next season.

I also think this Crystal and Kyle dynamic is, I mean, packed with tension, very interesting. and it doesn't feel like something that is going to be forgotten if they keep, if they stay, if they both stay on the show next season. I think that that is a wound that might fester a little bit and that is a great place to start a season. And so I think in terms of the overall cast, it's like they can play around with it.

I don't have an issue with that. But there's nobody really in this group that I'm like, get her off the island other than Diana, which, I mean, she's already. Island. Dan is already, her lifeboats headed back to shore. She's in the tender back to shore right as we speak. So I, yeah, I mean, where are you right now on Rina's employment status?

I want to start with the end, which is what you said with Kyle and Crystal. You know, Kyle has been in my top five. And I refuse to take her off the top five. I am a German Shepherd apologist. I love a woman who shops. Smokey. There's a lot there. I have complicated feelings about her complicated relationship with Kim.

So, you know, I don't know that she's on pause. I just think it's like you've got to acknowledge that a person is very complicated and their aspects of Kyle that I think are like horrible, which I'm very into discussing. But I think it's really important to have somebody on Beverly Hills who hates Kyle. I think that is so helpful to the storyline. These two women hate each other. And I am extremely into that. Like the way that they were looking at each other of like, you fucking suck.

No, you fucking suck is iconic to me, regardless of the actual topic, which is very complicated. I would like to have somebody in the cast who walks in next season and is like, you are bad. Like, I don't want to fuck with you. We're not friends. Or we're friends, but I'm going to fuck with you. No, they're not even friends. You can call them friends. I agree with you.

I think Kyle has often been at her best when she is really kind of. have pushed up against a wall. Someone push her. And she hasn't really had that the last couple of seasons. Aside from there were a couple brief moments where she and Garcel really weren't in a good place. But that was kind of smoothed over between the reunion and the beginning of the next season. They had a couple conversations and it was better.

I think Kyle really didn't want to be on in Garcel enemy territory because who, I mean, losing battle. Everybody loves Garcel. We were both at BravoCon. Garcel was one of the people that was. was getting the biggest reactions all weekend. And also Kathy. Also Kathy.

Yeah. So I think Kyle does find herself in an interesting place of she doesn't want to necessarily make enemies with these people that she's had some tough moments with. And so for her, it's going to be a question of is being besties with Doree and maybe in a pretty good place with Sutton and Garcel. is that enough or what's going to happen? I also wonder because I think we know that Crystal used to be friends with Teddy and is no longer friends with Teddy. Right. And Kyle is a bestie's with Teddy.

Sisters even. And so I do sort of wonder if that is a little nugget of maybe underneath the surface. We're not talking about it yet. but maybe Teddy has said some stuff to Kyle about Crystal that is making her wee, weo, weo, weo, like a little red flag. And as much as I... Don't even say it.

I will walk off right now. I don't know that I want to see Teddy next season, but I would like to unpack maybe the dynamic there a bit. Well, I think Teddy is the ghost that's lurking on top of this because I do think, and I think it's been like discussed on two T's in a pod. Shout out to Tamara and Tamara Lohn. Oh, God. One T, one T and half of a pod is all that I will. I'm going to bleep that out. Tigger warning, baby carrots. Google that. I think that that carries into a lot of us. And there's also been a conversation online of like, is part of this because

Kyle has gotten scoop from Teddy? And it's a part of this because Kyle thinks that if Crystal's no longer on the show, Teddy gets her spot. And it's like, babe, nobody wants that except for the four of you motherfuckers on that stage. And y'all aren't giving me enough to, like, believe that strengthening the majority is the way we need to go. We actually need the opposite of that. Yeah, I think in the last two seasons, the center of gravity in this cast has shifted. And it's no longer Kyle, Derreet, Erica, Rina, and whoever they want, it's going to be

more of a Garcel, Sutton, Kyle, Derre, that sort of, like, it has shifted to the left a little bit. Not necessarily in a political way shifting to the left, but just in my mind. Yeah, I think what you're saying. That it's like the way two seasons ago, Garcell had only, was still a relative newbie. Sutton was a friend of the season before. And Sutton's first season, a lot of people didn't really like her. Sutton had a tough...

How dare you? Sutton had a tough reception her first year. And I think the kind of going after Erica last year really shifted the tide in Sutton's favor. And I think it can't be underestimated how much the show has changed in the last two years. Kind of maybe without everyone realizing it that's in the cast. And that's why all of a sudden it's like, oh, Erica and Rinna are in kind of a tough spot. Yeah, it's the complicated dynamic. It's the math that doesn't make sense when the people who have so much favor with the,

audience and so much pay favor with so much power with the audience. And Garcel and Sutton don't necessarily have that with the cast or the cast is trying to punish them for the way that they are otherwise adored. And that gets difficult because nobody's really acknowledging it. But I do also want to reference something that you said a moment ago about Kyle and Garcel and the fact that Kyle doesn't want to necessarily fuck with Garcel. Well, babe, it's a little late. And it's something that Garcel talked about during BravoCon, which was like the way

that Diana was defended, that she was not. Kyle, like, done fucked up. And I hope that that is a part of next season because the way that Kyle and who else was doing this, Doree, or no, Erica, well, I guess the three of them were trying to explain and forgive Diana on Garcell's behalf by being like, she didn't mean poorly by attacking you and harassing you on social media and whatever else is like, actually that part they didn't defend. but other aspects is really complicated.

And I think that it's important as they did in talking about the microaggression of referencing the charity stuff as an Ula reveal that a part of this conversation next season is not to necessarily discuss Diana by name because like who wants her to continue to be a narrative, but to say the way that you looked at someone as needing aid in that moment and not me is wild and complicated and bad. Right. So we look forward to the next season with six housewives and then the ghosts of Teddy and Diana respectively. All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the strawberry watermelon refresher. And the mango pineapple refresher with popping boba to crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foam.

Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Try them all now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine. Copyright 2026, the Coca-Cola Company. Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company. Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best.

Are you a festival fanatic, a deep-end DJ, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Red Bull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer. How we talk about Salt Lake City? Sure. I feel like I sort of said that in a Meredith

Meredith Mark's voice. Let's talk about Salt Lake City. We resume at the garbage or launcher pay party with a... Jen shot making great decisions. With Heather yelling at Whitney and for calling her a liar about saying that she didn't know that Lisa sucked dick for Utah Jazz tickets. It's giving very Breel. Who does Breel have to blow for John Legend tickets? Shout out Chrissy T. again. This Whitney and Heather situation exploding,

also another Bravo-Con tie-in, while we've seen in real time this past weekend that Whitney and Heather are very much still not in a good place. Kind of this episode seeing a little bit more of the root cause of that, it's tricky. watching that episode, I'm like, I felt myself really being challenged in a way that I'm like, you know, I don't want to say I see both sides because that sounds a little bit too, like, I think they're both right.

But like, I think in specific ways on specific things, I agree with different people. And I think it's hard because the whole Whitney thing, this season, or four episodes into the season. And Whitney has already brought up such deep personal stuff. And this healing journey that she's on is really clearly such a major thing happening in her life and is so complicated for her to be navigating. But then on the other hand, it feels like she is conflating support for the healing journey with support for telling Lisa that she heard a rumor that she sucked dick for Jazz tickets.

And it's like, now Whitney, now Whitney, Heather being a supportive friend and cousin in your healing journey is not the same as Heather being like, yeah, Lisa, I also heard the rumor about you sucking dick for jazz tickets. I am so confused about what happened on this episode. And I also have to say, like, shout out to Salt Lake for A, giving us a full on reunion episode at BravoCon, which was absolutely psychotic, iconic, shocking. I want to remember the feeling of adrenaline that coursed through my body for the rest of my life sitting in my seat.

Like, that was wild. But I did find myself confused because I felt like a lot of the reaction online was very supportive of Heather's perspective. And I honestly, like, maybe I'm in the minority on this, but I did understand what Whitney was saying in that moment. And I think Heather's reaction of like, this was supposed to be fun, you made it unfun,

is really tough if someone is literally going through something and is being told they're not allowed to process it when the seeming theme of this trip was supposed to be about support. Like, Jen is going on trial, L-O-L-L. But like, Jen's going through a lot. She should be supported. But Jen isn't the only one who should be supported. And apologies to Whitney's trauma for not coming at a more opportune time for Heather who, you know, just passionary. I love all these women. Like I really truly have it to all of them. So it's not like I hate some like versus Beverly Hills. Like I really am charmed by everyone in the cat. Well, minus one by everyone, almost everyone in the cast. But I do also like I posted on Instagram after. the episode aired, which again, shout out to me for watching live. Big day, big day. I posted whose side are you on on IG because I was like, I felt weird about it. And I'm like,

someone needs to help me with this. And 77% of Heather, 23% Whitney. And I do also add the caution, neither or both is not an option. I'm not like fucking around. You have to pick a side. Wait, you want to know what's crazy? I posted a poll on Bravo by Betches on Bravo Bay Betches an hour ago before we started recording. Not up, rub up by bitches. 78% Heather, 22% Whitney. And I'm at 7723. And then I also post, did you do Meredith and Lisa? No.

Okay, Meredith and Lisa, just so you guys know, Meredith was 38%. Lisa was 62. But that Heather Whitney thing is fascinating to me. I think the thing that's kind of impacting that, obviously people can watch this and, you know, form whatever opinion they have. Yeah, totally.

But I think that coming into it, Heather has such a bonus of just being more of a fan favorite than Whitney is. She's adored. Yes. And similar to Garcel, another person at BravoCon who was just rapturously received all weekend. Deservidly so. Deservedly so. Getting fucking standing ovations and stuff was Heather gay.

And so I think that in terms of really unpacking this issue between them, definitely with Heather is maybe being given. a little more benefit of the doubt because she has this love for her. That Whitney, I think, I mean, obviously there are a lot of people who love Whitney too. But I think Heather kind of has that in a more massive way. But I think the thing like when you were saying that Heather isn't really, you know, it's not she wanted this to be a fun weekend for Jen.

Yeah. I think the thing is that it's like Whitney is a little bit to me creating a false equivalency between the healing journey and the Lisa rumor. But the problem is that Heather is kind of shutting down all of it. And Heather is saying that all of this stuff that you've brought up this weekend should have been pushed off because it was about Jen. Such a good point. And I think if Heather had just been a little more clear,

I want to say clear, but I don't even know if she actually felt this way at all, so maybe it wasn't an issue of being clear and it was just kind of her being shitty is that it's like you could say I'm so glad you felt like you were able to share with us that was so important I'm here for you on the healing journey but the stuff about Lisa I felt like

we should have you know pushed that off to a different time if at all because the thing is I think that the stuff about Lisa did not need to come out on this trip if it was supposed to be about support and Jen and the healing journey, you know, whatever you want,

all of this stuff that is, you know, positive, working through your feelings, being supportive, being there for the group, Whitney drunkenly being like, Lisa, you heard a rumor that Angie Harrington was saying it, the jazz, and he, this guy, and Heather was there too, and she knew it, and Marith and I were talking about it, but it's something that I heard from Angie, like,

that's not supportive. I totally understand why Heather's, like, can you stop? Can you shut the fuck up about this? And so for Heather to be like, I did something hard. Or Whitney, she's like, I did something hard. I told the truth. And it's like, nobody asked you to.

But thank you for doing that. I mean, thank you for me for doing that. But in terms of the, in terms of the vibe in the room, she didn't help the vibe in the room. Absolutely. Can I sidebar a question for you? Do we think that we're going to hate Angie Harrington as much as I believe that we are? Look, I am anxiously awaiting the appearance of Angie Harrington next week.

And I think with Lisa, I actually really appreciated the way that she handled this trip. Because at the lingerie party, Whitney bringing all of this stuff up, obviously Lisa was really upset about it. And even the next day when Heather's like, I didn't say Lisa gave a blowjob. Who would say Lisa gave a blowjob? And Lisa's like, can we not, can we just like stop saying this? But I really respected the way that Lisa was able to kind of set that aside and still be there for Jen as they were kind of giving her this loving sendoff. And she was able to be at this dinner. And, you know, it really felt like she was still participating in the supportive vibe of the trip.

Whereas I could have totally seen it going left. And all of a sudden Lisa is just like, fuck you. fuck you, fuck you, this is over. I don't want to be here. I'm storming out. And I commend Lisa for kind of keeping her cool for the most part and, you know, sticking through the end of this trip. Because overall, I mean, that hug that she and Meredith shared after Jen left, I was like, wow, that was powerful. And it's not going last.

I have a question for you. Okay. How do we feel about Meredith right now? I think I like the FBI hats. Her I heart New York look was iconic Oh yeah yeah But and she's released merch that says I heart half of New York But yes wearing the hat and the mug or whatever is phenomenal

I think Meredith is Meredith's in an interesting place Because this stuff with Lisa is obviously going to be carried through the entire season They're clearly still not doing well But it does feel in this episode there wasn't really any Meredith and Lisa content but going back to last week

like it does feel like it's starting to be a little bit like okay if you what will it take for you to want to move forward with Lisa like we can't just be mad forever with no kind of parameters I don't know I like Meredith a lot

in general but this season so far I feel like I'm like okay can we can we get a little bit of forward momentum Because watching two people just be mad at each other with no kind of direction is, it doesn't feel productive. I don't think Meredith is going to be able to or have interest in moving on until she hears Lisa Barlow say, I did that monologue intending for it to be on camera to embarrass you. And the problem with that is Lisa didn't. And I believe her when she said she didn't.

I believe her when she said she was recorded without her awareness. just a complicated conversation that she gets into in-depth in an interview she did during BravoCon with Jeff Lewis for his show, which was a really great chat. And John Barlow is there, which is always fun. But I thought it was like a really interesting interview because Jeff was like giving more insight in his perspective that she was absolutely recorded without her knowledge. And after actually explicitly being told she wasn't being recorded, which I think is really fucked. But the problem here is that Meredith is intent on proving Barlow's intention. And if Barlow is saying she didn't have, she had intention to just get this out of her body, but not for it to be on TV.

And until Meredith hears what she wants to hear, I don't think she can move on. And that is a problem that could last until eternity. Because it's just not Barlow's reality. Right. If you're living in two, if you have two different versions of the, truth and something's got to give to get on the same page, you know, it's like, it's like you're trying to get a false confession out of somebody. And maybe to you, you really believe that they did it and they're confessing in a real

way. But Lisa, to me, does not seem like the kind of person who's going to all of a sudden be like, you know what, you're right. Because it, that just didn't, it's bad enough to Lisa that it was on TV. after she really didn't think it would be because there's a difference between saying something and not wanting it on TV. And again, they all signed up for reality TV, but these women all have private moments with production as well. And I think that gets into a really complicated area that I'm obsessed with. But Meredith, to me, is giving like dance captain energy where she is saying like, follow exactly what I'm doing, but from the past.

Like I am saying things about your blowjob Utah Jazz, yada, yada, on camera to embarrass you because that's how I felt that you embarrassed me. You know, like it's like literally doing it in a rewind. And it's just not, I don't think it's landing in the way that she thinks it is, especially because she's trying to absolve herself from like making it sexual by saying on social media that that's not. what she said, which is weird. Yeah. I did like, we end the episode that's been pretty heavy with a conversation about Jen's trial. Oh my God.

It was iconic. iconic stupidity. Meredith putting on her lawyer cap, the FBI cap, if you will. While Heather is like, what would a good outcome be? She gets acquitted on the first day. Great. It's like, yeah, so that's not going to happen. And then they're talking about Stewart.

Whitney. They're talking about Stewart pleading guilty. And Whitney's like, well, don't you think that that could be a good thing for Jen? Because if Stewart's saying he's guilty, then it means he did it. And then Jen, maybe Jen didn't do it. And Meredith's like, I don't. That's not how this is going to work out. She's like, I don't think, no, that's definitely not.

No. That's where Meredith is incredibly valuable. And then like them asking, they're like, wait, is Jen the big fish? And they're all like, I don't know. But like the answers maybe yes, because she's the last one. It's like, oh my God. Like I'm sure if you're in that situation and it is your friend. who you really want to believe is innocent and or is going to get acquitted.

I'm sure it's really tough to wrap your mind around the actuality of the situation, but it's like, ladies, it is not, this is not chill. Yeah, and it's a wild thing for Jen to process all of this happening, knowing the outcome, which I think is a internal struggle for the network and certainly production. And watching her talk about like not being with her kids. Like that's very complicated and very sad. But knowing as she did at BravoCon, according to Tamara and others, that she was like running down hotel suites, grabbing other people's glam, trying to get in poor Jen Shauna Sprinter van, trying to get in a sprinter van to go to watch what happens live and being politely declined from that opportunity.

And telling people she wasn't going to go to prison is like a thing that she surely has maybe convinced people. they cast is going to happen, which is a wild alternate reality and one that in which Jen believes she thrives. And just thinking about the way that she's probably said that to Heather like every day. Like this is going to work out. I have a master plan. It's all going to work out. And these at a certain point, it's like you might believe it, which is where Meredith is so key. Because she is a fucking lawyer. We saw the way that she was acting with Lisa Barlow at the reunion. It was an iconic deposition. So I think that's where it's really important to have some who's like trying to translate it to her cast because that's an LOL who also understands it.

Right. Jen is living in a world where she's like, no, no, no, we're all good. We had to cut some corners. So now the makeup girl is also Crystal Pussy, the twerk instructor. But other than that, everything's great. And it's like, and why do you have glam, ma'am? Why do you have glam? Why does anyone have glam? There's five of you at a house in Scottsdale. You don't need. You don't need to pay your glam to travel to Arizona. Like you're staying in a house from the 80s, like looked like that. You know, like you don't need to look glammed up. I did see, I think it was her.

She posted, she like reshared something about, yeah, like last week, like some hair person tagged her and they were like, Jen came to Virginia or like some other state to get slayed by like the ponytail prince. And it's like this woman is still living in a world where she feels it is necessary for her to be flying to a different state to get her hair done. Okay. Listen, I'm not trying to like raise any bells that have already or ring any bells that haven't already been rung. But I don't, maybe this is a question for the Bravo docket and Emily D. Baker. I don't totally understand how she got permission to go to BravoCon. I would if the network wanted her to be there because it would be considered work. but like what work was she doing in New York that was approved by the court?

I told you this. I think if she did like one paid appearance or one sponsor post while she was there, I think that could settle it. I don't know. But like either way, she does not need to be flying to Virginia to get slayed by the ponytail priestess or whoever. I think it's complicated when you're a public personality because I don't believe that that was the excuse or the reason that she told the court.

I think she maybe told them she was going for BravoCon. I don't know. We'll never. Maybe she had a BravoCon email from like pre-guilty plea where she was like, see, back in May, they said I could be there. If you are the judge reading, I don't know that judges read page six, but shout out to the ones that do hearing what actually happened. I would be curious. If you are judge Sidney Stein or if something changed in a different judge is deciding her sentencing now, please call in or you're welcome to come to the studio if you're in New York. Slide into RTF.

Let us know what's at Dame Galley. Let me know what's up. Shout out, Judge. Oh, my gosh. Well, Sarah, this has been amazing. Amazing. I love that at the end. I love.

I love NG as a K. You know who else iconically did that? The Whitney Rose K at the end of the word. I know someone did, but I forget who. Whitney Port on the Hills. That's exactly who it was. Thank you for that. The OG.

Lala does it a little bit too. I think it's like a Utah thing. I think it could be. But is Whitney. From Utah? Yeah. Oh, really? I think so.

Wow. Oh, Whitney Port. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we know that we... No, but... Maybe not. I don't know. Whatever.

Anyway... She's spiritually from Utah. Shout out Utah. So, Sarah, thank you for being here. Everyone, you should go listen to Andy's Girls. It is Sarah's hit Bravo podcast. Hits. You go listen to Andy's Girls,

wherever you're listening to mention it all. I was on your most recent episode, which was all about BravoCon. It was so great. And you also had a great piece that came out in The Daily Beast talking about the BravoCon experience. And it's always a pleasure to have you here.

So thank you. Thank you. I did write about how BravoCon was a wellness retreat, as was today. So thank you for that. Wow. Wow. And now you can go run the rest of your air.

I did bring a bag to Anitia, a place I hadn't been to before. And I am going to be making three returns. Wow. Life is a journey. Life is a journey. Thank you so much for listening. as we are on this journey. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen.

You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, cool. Don't be all like, I'm cool. Mention It All is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousmakat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico, social media by Dylan Hafer, guest booking by Dylan Hafer and Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. Home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly Big Board Buckslot Machine by Aristocrat Gaming,

Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is giving one person a $1.6 million dream package. The biggest prize in Yamava's history. Club Serrano members can earn daily instant prizes and secure a spot in the finale May 29. Don't pass go and own it all. Only at Yamava, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You win?

Details at Yamava.com must be 21-20. Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. Thank you.