Mention It All - RIP To Lisa Barlow’s 10-Year Friendships Ft. Jared Alexander (RHOSLC)

Episode Date: January 31, 2022

Dylan is joined by writer and Bravoholic Jared Alexander. They start by discussing Rihanna’s breaking baby news, and their thoughts on the new Janet Jackson documentary. Next, they dig into rumors surrounding the RHOBH trip to Aspen, and how they feel about leaks during filming. Then, they recap RHOSLC’s latest explosive episode, where things finally reach a breaking point in Lisa and Meredith’s friendship. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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With Dylan Hafer. We'll go and check me, boo. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I am Dylan Hafer. And today, I am joined by a guest. I'm very excited to welcome to the show. He is an entertainment writer at The Griot.

And one of my personal favorite housewives viewers to chat about things with. So I'm very excited to welcome to welcome to the show. Jared Alexander to the podcast. Hi, Jared. Hi, Dylan. I'm so excited to be here. I am so excited to have you, and I invited you on like probably 10 days ago. It was like, okay, we'll recap Salt Lake City. And I feel like this is what a day to recap Salt Lake City, because there is so much going on. There is so much going on. And I know we have so much to talk about, but I have to say, like, this Rihanna news dropped like 20 minutes ago. I know. Rihanna's having a baby. I know. I am so glad that the announcement came with

real photos because I can't handle like a one source is reporting to TMZ that Rihanna is expecting a baby and then like 24 hours of speculation like we know it's true it's happening I'm happy for her those photos are gorgeous I mean she looks great

I know I feel like it's bigger than I shouldn't say it's bigger than the announcement but like the photos are amazing it's like everything we've kind of come to expect with like a star of that level you know yeah especially because those photos are of them walking around in Harlem this past weekend, which if you were in New York City this weekend, you know that it was fucking disgusting outside. And so I'm like, I was like barely making it out

to go to CVS to like grab snacks in my like snow boots and coat. And Rihanna's like bear midriff looking gorgeous, you know. Right. It was literally like Armageddon and she just like decided to have a pregnancy announcement. It's kind of perfect. Not everybody can do it like she can. I also wanted to talk about before we get too deep into Bravo, I know that you watched the Janet Jackson documentary this weekend. And I just want to chat about that for a second because I feel like that's, you know, it's like reality TV adjacent.

It feels like it belongs in the same world. Right. Absolutely. We're going to make it work today. No, and I saw like all of your posts about it too. And I think, you know, I just like love Janet. Adored Janet. My mom really loves Janet.

So I kind of like grew up listening to her a lot. And I think, and I saw, a lot of like some of your posts about it too and I agree in the fact that it's impossible in four hours to capture her like I found by even the first hour we hadn't even gotten to control yet

we have three hours left like you could really do an installment per era or per album so I feel like that was the one I shouldn't say let down but it was kind of I felt like there almost just like wasn't enough time I do think though that the best parts

were the footage was just insane. Yeah, I think with with something like that, it's like Janet has had such a long career. Obviously, there are so many like career achievements and different time periods to talk through, but then also her personal life has been really fascinating and there are a lot of, you know, kind of tumultuous things that have happened. So it's like truly, how do you choose what to include? And I thought I watched the first hour of it and I thought that it was only, I thought that was half of it, not a quarter of it. Like, I thought it was just one hour on each night.

And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Right. It's halfway over and she's, like, not even famous yet. I was very scared. Because I was like, they said they were going to talk about the secret baby and the Super Bowl and like all this stuff. And it's like, oh, never mind. Like four hours at least.

Literally. But yeah, I feel like it's always interesting watching so much reality TV, like Bravo and other adjacent stuff that's like very much like, the reality genre and then watching something that's like a documentary docu-series but still kind of like getting into a little bit of that personal drama and I did love seeing Janet kind of open up about some of these things from her past that normally she wouldn't really have a reason to talk about publicly. I found myself, it was kind of a weird experience being like we really don't know much about Janet

even just in how she relates to these huge things that we all know about, like especially with her first marriage. I mean, just hearing her kind of talk at length about that in those interviews was really interesting and intimate. But I do think that just how it was all piece together, again, I feel like I would just chunk things differently. I feel like, especially in between control and nipplegate. That's like 15 years. And it kind of just flew by. And then the last, it's like all post nipplegate. The 90s were an absolute blur. I know. Yeah. No, I think hearing her be open about her relationships was really great.

And I think, you know, on how, it kind of also just tying it into housewives, like we see so many marriages kind of in various stages of downfall. And so it's, it's always, it's always, I don't know, intriguing to see someone kind of give an autopsy of their relationship. Because I think so much of the time when something like that happens on a Bravo show, it's like, I don't know if we're really getting the full story. Right. Like how many boyfriends did Meredith Marks have? Right. All of New York, exactly.

And I just want to say, too, I think, you know, even just with Janet and everything, like, I think we're just in this era now, though. Like, we've kind of seen it, like, especially with the JT of it all and everything. Like, she's kind of finally getting, not her flowers, because, like, I think what the documentary does show well is that, like, she was literally the biggest pop star in the world almost. but with the fall out of Nipplegate, there was just a lot that happened with her overall legacy. So I feel like I was expecting this to be like the moment for her, but I think it's kind of still just a piece of what we're going to be getting in this time of her life. I hope so.

I hope she goes back on tour because I want to, I think that would be an amazing concert. And I think she's still got it. Okay, let's talk about, let's pivot to Bravo full time. First of all, Beverly Hills was in Aspen this weekend. and there were a lot of rumors. I always, it really stresses me out when we're getting these like real time accounts

of like what's happening on the trip. I sort of don't love it when this happens because first of all, there's no way to know what to believe. And second of all, even if it is all true, then when you watch the show, it's like, wait, I don't know what's happening. So how did you feel seeing so much of this chatter come in over the weekend?

I completely agree, Dylan, it's getting out of control. And I feel like it kind of started, we've kind of seen now lately with Housewives, just like as it's evolved, as social media has just become even stronger. Like, I feel like the Denise of it all two seasons ago was like a big thing of that. Like when that Daily Mail thing came out and it was like, they confronted her about like this lesbian affair with Brandy. And like it just kind of ruins the experience, I think. And I think that season maybe would have gone differently if we just like went in a bit colder,

you know, instead of like having all these preconceived notions about it. So while on the one hand, I kind of hate when this stuff happens, I'm also like addicted to it though. Like I can't stop reading what's happening. And then they were kind of, it felt like a scream movie. Like it was meta. Like they were trolling us by the end.

Like posting pictures and like throwing us all off. Right. My favorite little social media blip was when Erica posted that selfie of like five of them on the trip. And this was after there had been the rumor that Erica and Derreet left early, and Robin Dixon commented on the photo, and she was like, y'all have everybody confused. Right. It's always fun to kind of have a reminder that everybody is kind of experiencing it at the

same time. And even if you're a housewife on another franchise, you still, they follow all these Bravo accounts. They still see all of this stuff coming in. And I love seeing like a little meta moment like that. Well, I think it's fun that it's happening to post Ultimate Girlstrip, because we know that like the whole first episode was all about like how some, or Anthony or whatever, like, some fan, like, had it detailed down to, like, exactly what had happened with Ramona.

So, like, it was kind of fun even just, like, in my mind to think about that, that, like, we know that they absolutely can read that. And it's cool to see that, like, they kind of are, you just kind of can't ignore it anymore. Like, this is just where we're at. One of my favorite random moments was from Atlanta last season when there was, like, a rumor that had gotten out and, um, it was in, I think it was in page six. There's some blog.

And Kenya was like, no, no, no, it wasn't me because it's in page six. If it was like a love B Scott, maybe that would be me. But I don't talk to page six. And I just love like the intricacy where it's like, if it's published in this one tabloid, then it's a real thing that it could be me talking to them. But like, I don't fuck with this one. Probably there's some other backstory there. And it's like, I love the little acknowledgments that it's like, yeah, like that's

something I would do, but in this case, it's not me. And then I feel like we also have then just like Kathy going rogue on live, like, which is just so funny. It's like we're getting like this weird like inside peak too when that is happening. It's, it's a lot. Yeah. And I think Kathy probably doesn't, I don't know if she doesn't understand the assignment quite as much or just doesn't need to follow it as closely as the others in terms of like being careful about what they tease and kind of making everything a little bit cryptic. Kathy is out here, you know, commenting on Rick's Instagram, like, get me out of here.

Right. Oh my gosh. I literally saw that this morning. And I think, too, you can tell in, like, Kyle's body language, it reminds me of, like, when you're, like, friends with, like, that friend who talks just a little too much in class. And, like, Kyle just, like, tent us up and it's like, Kathy, like, we shouldn't be doing this, but also, like, whatever, we're on live anyway, let's just quickly say hi to everyone and then get off it. It reminds me of, this happened.

I feel, like, more in college than anything. anywhere else where if you were, if you and your friends were maybe a little intoxicated and you went to like a restaurant or something where there were, you know, maybe some families, maybe some older people, you know, and there's like the one person in the group who's like talking a little too loud and like maybe being like a little inappropriate and you're just like, I'm not like in charge of you, but also like maybe we could talk about like sex later. Right. That's exactly it. I was going to say also. too, I just remembered Teresa was also

an Aspen at the same time and I just Teresa and Louie and there was a part of me that was like, Kyle and Teresa need to link up maybe just like for a little bit, but I feel like they almost shy away from that so much sometimes. Yeah, I feel like they like to keep the Housewives franchises in their own little bubbles kind of

and you know, obviously we've had crossover moments in the past but I think they don't want it to get too free flowing between the cities. Like they want to kind of keep that construction because then they do an Ultimate Girl's trip, it really feels like a whole different, you know, kind of experience.

But that photo, there was one photo that Teresa posted on her Instagram story where she's like on the ski lift or something and the facetune and the fillers are just like a work of art. And the filter on top of it. This is like, and it was something happening like the way the light was reflecting. It was glitching like every two seconds. There's something like when you when you start with a canvas of like fillers. and Botox, and then you add your own little face tune editing, and then you put an Instagram filter on top of that.

We're really in the Uncanny Valley. It's like the CGI Lion King, like the animals are like a little too, a little too flawless. All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the strawberry watermelon refresher and the mango pineapple refresher with popping boba to crafted sodas. Like the Sprite berry blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Try them all now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine.

Copyright 2026, the Coca-Cola Company. Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company. Okay, let's get into Salt Lake City because I don't want to, I don't want to, like, run out of time. This episode, I just have to say I was on the edge of my seat. It was one of those episodes where you turn it on and then you blink and it's 9.45. And it's like, oh, oh, oh, my God. No filler. This was, this was just like, it was like a balls to the wall episode.

I had to rewatch the dinner scene this morning because I was like, truly, I feel like I missed half of what was going on. Because the dynamics within this group right now have gotten to a place where, like, truly each pair of people, like, every way. you group them together, there is like such an interesting dynamic going on. There definitely is. It's, um, even that group, um, with Meredith, Mary and Jenny, just like, hanging out at the spa was like, just felt so bizarre, especially just because of like the conflict between Mary and Jenny, but just like, it almost didn't feel like the whole group in general.

It's just like hard sometimes, I think, to like match them together just because they don't really feel like a group, at least to me, not yet. Yeah, it was interesting. I'm curious to know kind of how those outings actually got paired up because obviously it's like, okay, like Lisa and Heather are kind of like starting to get along maybe. Like Whitney and Jen actually seem like they're pretty good with each other right now. But then, yeah, Meredith and Mary have this, I mean, just like baffling affinity for one another that I think is, I don't think anybody watching the show understands.

it and that, you know, it is what it is. But yeah, to put Jenny with Mary, it's like they had had, it sort of seemed like kind of a breakthrough moment, even though as I was watching it, I was like, Mary doesn't actually give a shit about this person. She just is saying what she feels like she's supposed to say in the moment. But it's so telling of how poor Mary's social skills are that she can't even keep that. facade up for like one more day of the trip. Like she,

she had one moment where she was like, okay, Jenny, like, I know you're a real person with feelings. And then the very next day, she's like, actually, no, no, no, no, no. I can't do her. I can't do it. Right. And I feel like on the one hand,

it does feel brutally honest, as, like, gringy as it can be. But at the same time, I think, like, storytelling of, like, television-wise, it can be kind of confusing. Like, I feel almost at the end of a Salt Lake episode, it's hard for me to even wrap my brain around like exactly what is happening. Like exactly where people are at because I feel like everyone's just firing off at all times. And now, we have to mention too, it's such a weird watch with the Jenny of it all.

Like you kind of just are like watching two shows at once and there's like a part of your brain the whole time. And of course, I don't know what their timeline was to edit, but it's like, this last episode for some reason. Like, Jenny's interviews were so heavy in it. Like, every five minutes, there was an interview with her, which she was still a part of the show at the time. But it's just weird because you're just kind of thinking about all the stuff that we know now while watching it.

Yeah, I'm glad that there's a lot happening because I feel like I can take it all in and not, I don't, there's never like a 10-minute scene that's like Jenny and one other person. And that's just like what we have to work with. You know, it really is like a tightly wound. ball of mess at this point. But yeah, I think going back to what you were saying with Mary, it's like, obviously on these shows we like seeing people that are real and people that are authentic and unfiltered and all of that is great.

And I think Mary has those qualities, but she doesn't know, she doesn't know when to sort of play along or she's incapable of doing it or she doesn't want to. I don't know, you know, you could write a book about Mary Cosby. but it's like, I think with the people that are really successful on these shows, it's like they know when to be unfiltered and they know when to say whatever's coming to their mind. But also they know when they're at work and supposed to be, you know, kind of have these obligations. And it's like, okay, yeah, I'm like down to play along or like, yeah, I'll apologize to Jenny. And like for the rest of the trip, we can like sort of be cool. And then I'm still not going to fuck with her at the end of the day.

but Mary can't or won't or, you know, whatever. It just isn't happening. Like, she'll say the right thing for like one split second. And then it's like immediately she's like, yeah, no, I didn't. I don't care about her. And I think it's, you know, that's Mary's whole thing. And then it is so strange with Meredith to watch her just like continually turn down every opportunity to stick up for anyone else. that's sort of like the subject of Mary's, you know, attacks.

And it's like, it just is very confusing. It's really off-putting because I, in general, tend to kind of be on Meredith's side with stuff. I think she's a pretty, you know, fascinating person. I generally enjoy her vibe. But it's like, what is going on there? Yeah, I definitely feel the same. I like you, like usually not like side with Meredith, but I can really see where she's coming from. But this is like the one thing.

When the women present this to her, it's really hard. for her to even just defend it because, you know, she'll just be sitting right next to Mary, and Mary will just spew out, like, all this stuff about everyone. And she doesn't necessarily co-sided, but she just kind of sits there in silence. And I guess it's kind of like, how do you see, how do you view friendship? You know what I mean? And I think, obviously, with Lisa, that really bothers her. But again, I think it's so interesting, especially with the show, because I think,

it's a new show and like a new era of housewives like this isn't like when like jersey was new or like even when beverly hills was new like there is just um i think an awareness minus mary that i think all them have of like these shows and the DNA of them and how they work and i think as wild as mary can be there was one thing that she said that like did kind of stick with me that like it just doesn't feel like a friend group and not that it has to and i think sometimes that takes time. Like I always say like, especially after like season eight of Jersey, like, they're genuinely like a group now that's like kind of in each other's lives. Like on camera, off camera, the husbands are hanging out. Like they're going out to dinner and I just think

it makes it feel just more sensible to watch. And I do think when Mary said that, I think that's my thing with the show and it's still amazing and appointment TV and it's housewives. So I love it. But it's really hard to follow when I think every single one of them, um, know the assignment, I think, in a cool way, but there's no stakes, really. You know? So it's like, even with like Whitney and Heather, who I love, like, there are sometimes, like, with the memorial for Meredith's dad, for example, where, like, I was kind of exhausted by the end being like, well, like, we haven't even really talked about Jen's stuff, but, like,

this is kind of what we're kind of focusing on, which I think is a cool tactic, but it's almost like I can see through things, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think we've seen Whitney more recently sort of take up this bone carrier shitster kind of role. And I don't know how successfully she's doing it. Because I think she sort of knows the right topics to hit on, but it really is kind of an art form to be, you know, you have to be subtle enough that you don't just seem like you're repeating what a producer told.

you, you have to be, you know, empathetic enough that you don't immediately alienate the other people in the group. And I think she, she sort of fumbles that a little bit with Meredith, because, you know, she and Meredith, for the most part, get along pretty well. I mean, Meredith sort of confides in her a little bit that she's, like, worried about how the dinner is being paid for, which is just like, oh my God. That was an absolutely crazy moment. I know. You had to also suspend your disbelief. Spliced in with Jen, shaking her Maracas, walking down the stairs. Unreal.

But then Whitney brings it back to that place of like, so Meredith, we are all talking and we just need to know, did you lie about your dad's memorial? And like, it's not that I don't want to know the answer to that question, but I think Whitney sort of bringing it up at the table and making it seem like it was a group topic. It's like that's not how you're going to get the response out of Meredith that I think you're looking for. And similarly, when Mary comes back to the dinner table, she's like, hey, hey, Jenny, Jenny, Jenny, you were saying something, Mary, do you like Jenny? And like, I think that conversation needed to come up.

But Whitney just goes about it in like the least graceful way, I guess. And it's like, oh, okay, okay, okay. I guess this is how we're getting into it. Exactly. It feels, again, like I said, like transparent almost. it's like there's no way to react other than being super defensive. And I think we're like seeing the side of Meredith now where like her voice gets really low. And she's like, don't go there with me.

You know what I mean? Because I think it just, it's not like in a, and maybe it's just the temperature of the show. But like you like talk about like bone collectors and stuff. And like like Ashley Darby is someone who like does this. Like this is her style. Like she will like bring it up right there in the moment or be like we were talking about this. But. And I don't know if it's just the way that they hit the ball back in Potom.

or on some other shows, but I think they're having a weird time finding their footing. Yeah, it's like, when Ashley does it, it almost feels a little more casual that it's like, oh yeah, like we're talking about, like, what do you think about this? Whereas like, with Whitney, it's like,

okay, so I have something to say. And it's like, that's not actually, you know, making it into this big moment that you've clearly been thinking about isn't actually, I think, often the best way to go about that. Ready to soundtrack your summer With Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best.

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I'm so with you. I even honestly felt that, even, like, last season, like, as much as, like, we can, like, rag on Giselle. Like, that was the one thing that I think was just, like, so dumb. Like, the whole, like, you don't have a man thing is just, I don't know. It's just so lame. And you're right. It's been a trope for. some time. But like I think especially now where we are at these shows, like you see, you know,

like we've seen Heather and the amazing girls that she's raising with Giselle. Like you see like their life and and also their exes are both like very much still a part of their lives. And also their children's lives. So it's like, I mean, going back, you know, 10 years or something, it actually was more uncommon for women on these shows to not have a partner that was kind of the, I mean, it's real house wives. That was kind of the original format. I mean, save for you had people like Joe De La Rosa and Bethany who weren't, you know, in relationships, or I guess they were in relationships, but not married. But like in 2022 housewives world, it's like nobody on New York has been married for like four

years. Who cares? That's not what we're here for. None of the viewers care. I really feel strongly. So it's like that's a weak thing for Mary to come at. And then she goes after Lisa for her Taco Bell and eating candy. And it's like, Mary,

really seems to be, she's in the mood to come for everybody, but she doesn't have compelling reasons for any of it. She's just grasping at straws. And I think it also kind of shows how out of touch she is that people watching the show are like obsessed with how much Lisa talks about fast food. Like people love her for it. The cut is doing a whole fucking interview with her about it. And it's like, no, actually like that's not like, that's a losing battle. If you're going to be like, why do you eat Taco Bell? Everybody's like, Queen, Taco Bell. I was going to say if you like open up Twitter now it's like all it is is that scene which like if anything it only it only helped I think with Mary too what's so interesting and you know we still don't know exactly

what her role was like season one but like she wasn't in the group that much she was in at the first half and then she didn't even go on the trip so like we're kind of seeing her now really steeped into this group dynamic and outside of her not showing up to the reunion and outside of the controversial stuff like there is a part of me sometimes while I do think she's great TV and how unpredictable she is, like, if this format is just really good for her. Yeah, she's, I think she's great TV.

Like, she is always going to bring great moments because she is so unpredictable. But I think that is a different category. You have great housewives that are explosive and whatever, and then you have great housewives that are, you know, dependable and kind of consistent.

And when you look at the people who tend to have, you know, longer 10 years on these shows, it's not the people that are like necessarily being like the most divisive or the most outrageous. It's like, no, people, somebody that I think gets a lot more negativity than she deserves is Melissa Gorga. Because when she, when they announced the girls trip cast, people are like, why is Melissa an all-star? Like, what, she doesn't have any iconic lines like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think, I. think it's just, it does a disservice to evaluate all housewives kind of like performance on the same criteria. And it's like, think about how much of New Jersey we wouldn't have if the

Gorgas weren't on the show and like that kind of thing. So I think, you know, with Mary, in a way, I'm going to miss her like a little bit because some of the shit she says is just like so wild, so hilarious. You know, her reaction shots have given me, you know, many of but like I think she's one of those people that really just like burns too hot and can't last. You know, it's just, we've seen that with, you know, like a Siggie Flickr, Brandy Glanville a little bit. You know, there's been a lot of people on these shows where it's like they just can't keep it together. Kelly Dodd I think was kind of similar to that. So yeah, I mean like Mary, I have mixed feelings, but at the end of the day it's like I don't think she was ever going to be on Housewives for 10 seasons.

No, and I think I definitely agree with you, especially like with your Melissa comment and stuff, I think it's hard. I mean, we obviously love our explosive housewives and the ones that, you know, deliver or quote unquote understanding the assignment or bring it. But there are a lot of housewives who like, I think still play important roles. And I actually think, you know, even Melissa being on Girlstrip, like, does make sense. Like you can't, every housewife can't be, you know, firing off, you know, like there has to be like that connective tissue. And also like Melissa has been on for 10 years. Like if anyone else is going to be on it, you know what I mean? Like, why not her?

And I think, you know, there are housewives like Robin or like even like sometimes, like Delora sometimes or something where like fans will be like they don't, you know, they're kind of boring or they don't like bring it. But it's like sometimes like that's kind of great. And you kind of like that. Also, I would put Candy Burris in that category and she is one of my favorite housewives. I love. And look at how long she's been on. Oh. I'm dead.

I may be small. Oh. And also, like, the thing is, is that, like, Candy, it's interesting when people are like, oh, they're bored or they don't deliver, but it's like, they have. Like, and I'm not saying, like, just because the Thager thing happened, like, candy should be Scott-Free. That's not what I'm saying. But, like, she still has, like, delivered so much and is, like, so steady and consistent.

And is, her life is always interesting. She's always opening up more aspects of herself. Like, and I think that also is important. The show can't just be... That was one thing that I kind of liked as weird as it was, and we'll see. I'm sure we'll talk about

what even the cast is gonna look like next year for Salt Lake City. But like, even though we didn't get a lot of Angie, just her connection to the group made her interesting to me. Just because there was that...

It felt like old school housewives. Like the stupid story with the catering and like how she was connected to Whitney and Lisa. Like, it just felt... I was automatically just a bit more engaged

and a bit more just like leaned Anne. Yeah, like I, a lot of people have been talking about Angie. Obviously, we know Mary left the show because she didn't go to the reunion. Now we know Jenny is fired. So there is, it feels like sort of this, you know, hole that's left in the cast. And Angie is kind of the one person that we already know of that seems like she could come into play. And yeah, I mean, I don't really have strong feelings about Angie.

I'm not like, oh my God, queen, like put her on the show. She has to hold a snowflake. but at the same time, like what you were talking about with this group not really feeling like a believable sort of friend group, I think bringing in somebody like Angie would potentially help that or at least be kind of, you know, wouldn't make it worse. Whereas I think if you're going out and just like doing a casting call, you kind of don't know what you're going to get. And we've seen that go really well.

We've seen it go really poorly. It's unpredictable. Angie seems like she would be kind of a sure thing in terms of at least, you know, jelling with the women and sort of being able to play along with the group. Right. It's a weird thing. I always go back and forth when I have these conversations, like, because there are some people who are, like, who are of the mind of, like, you should cast a housewife who, like,

has a long history with someone, like, Derinda, let's say. But then I think you've had so many successful housewives. I always think of Margaret Joseph's who, like, wasn't really friends with Siggy, but, like, has grown into and has developed relationships with all of the women and still succeeded. So I think there's definitely something in the middle. And I think like we were talking about, Mary just wasn't really, not that she was game, but like she was right when she said she's not friends with them. She's just not, you know?

Yeah. What's wild is that Mary is leaving. But now we're left with Meredith and Lisa. And, you know, at the end of this episode, the catalyst, what ends up, you know, really igniting that fuse with Lisa Barlow is that Meredith won't speak up on behalf of Jenny or on behalf of really anyone else. And, you know, we see Lisa a little earlier in the dinner being like, you know, no one's sticking up for me. Like you all have each other. And then she says that she doesn't need anyone to stick up for her, which I think she's really just kind of trying to,

you know, pull it together a little bit. But then obviously at the end of the dinner, she has had enough. And, you know, it's hard to imagine a world in which Meredith and Lisa could kind of get back on track with each other. And to think that the major cause of that could at the end of the day be Mary Cosby. It's like, damn, was that worth it? Right. I mean, I had a weird, so during the first season reunion, I already, like, there were little cracks and hints at Lisa and Meredith and just where they were at in regards to Jen because of how Meredith felt about Lisa defending Jen and all this stuff.

And you kind of saw like Heather like poking that and being like, well what about Meredith? She's your friend and all this stuff. And you kind of saw it again but in the reverse this episode with Heather talking to Lisa about Meredith that being there for her. I think it's the recipe for a great housewife story, you know, a friend fallout.

But again like we talked about with like leaks. Like imagine if like the Zion trip like we had all this stuff and we knew going into this season that like so much of it would be Meredith and Lisa. I think one of the great surprises of it has been we didn't really know that. The Jen's job at all was enough to get us to tune in, but like it has been such a great watch and we're able to kind of see like where just the disconnect is happening between them. And then we had that amazing moment. Yeah. And I don't think that I wouldn't really

call it a hot mic moment because clearly Lisa was aware that she was speaking into a microphone. Right. That moment behind the door, I don't think we knew that that was coming down the pipeline until the preview for this week's episode came out. And like that's the kind of thing where that moment, even though the transcript leaked like a couple days before the, basically when the press screener went out. Funny how that works. But, you know, the fact that we saw that moment in the episode preview the week before,

and that's one of those moments where it's like, oh, it's going down. Like, for real, for real. this feels like extremely authentic. You know, there's no part of me that doesn't think Lisa was fully just like saying that stuff with her whole chest and like, you know, rattling off what was coming to her mind at that moment and not knowing, you know, six months in advance that that was kind of coming down the pipeline really made it more special. And, you know, I. And then when she opens the door, she's like, here, you can have your mic back and tosses it. I know.

Oh, my God. I know. It was, it literally said, I had full body chills. Like, it just was, and then to find out that Meredith only watched that 12 hours before the reunion, which he confirmed I watched what happens live, is like, just bananas to me. Like, I just can't wait to see, because I know how I would react. And, yeah, it'd be a lot. And that has definitely made me more excited for the reunion, because I have to say when

we found out Mary wasn't going to be there. And then obviously the Jenny controversy happened after the reunion taping. There was kind of a feeling that it's like, okay, so like obviously there's still the Jen stuff, but it doesn't really seem like anybody on this couch is in the mood to, you know, drag Jen for what she's going through. So it's like, is there going to be quite enough to talk about? And I mean, we'll see. They still have to fill three hours, which we've seen.

go better and worse in the past, but this dynamic, I really, really am looking forward to seeing at the reunion. Yeah, it just, I think it's going to show that, like, obviously there was plenty for them to talk about and, and to break down. And I think it's just going to be so interesting again, because they do have that, you know, 10, it feels like all of Lisa Barlow's friends she's had for 10 years. I don't know what exactly in 2012. What happened in 2010? Right, right, exactly. but she has a lot of 10-year friends and I think I wanted to ask you to

like what do you think with so like with all this that we're talking about with Salt Lake City I just have been thinking a lot and I think maybe it's been brought up I watch it happens live but it's just been so interesting that like from the beginning

of Beverly Hill before it even aired there was so much from the fans to be like the women aren't asking enough the women aren't talking about it enough like even like if they would talk about it week after week they weren't asking enough and I think it's so interesting

that just like the temperature's so different with Jen someone who like has been in that, like, actually is in some deep stuff where, like, there's no call to really bring it up on the show. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice.

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Grill up a dog, add classic yellow mustard, or loaded Chicago style. We all know it's not a cookout without Oscar Meyer and Heinz. I have mixed feelings about it because I do, I think almost because of how cut and dry Jen's situation seems to be that it feels like for the most part, most people are pretty confident that she did it, you know? Right.

And the charges are very clear. She has a court date. She's going to trial. We know what is potentially on the line. It almost feels like there is not as much of a point to kind of discussing it until then. Right. Where I do think the one thing that's kind of a little cringe is, how little most of the women in the group seem sort of concerned with really examining their relationship with Jen.

I wish there was a little more kind of internal struggle with that that we were seeing on the show. But I don't necessarily feel the need to have every group seen be like, let's yell at Jen about maybe allegedly committing fraud because I think, you know, the punishment at the end of the day could be her going to prison and I think that will bear itself out but with Erica I think it's almost like because it's such a mystery

it feels like there's a little bit more like work to be done doing more digging I think that's why with Sutton it was such a like yes girl like get the receipts call the lawyer read the article and I it'll be I mean it'll be interesting to see

this season on Beverly Hills kind of how that's continuing because you know, there haven't been a lot of real big developments in Erica's stuff. And so it's just kind of still in limbo. And then over the weekend, there was this report that she had been dismissed from this lawsuit, which then was pretty rapidly, you know, debunked that it's basically like, yeah, she got dismissed so they could file it somewhere else. Like, she's not actually off the hook for anything. She shared it, though. She shared it. And Kyle shared it. Rina shared it. You know, clearly there was a thing, they were on this trip together where it was like, yes, this is good news for our girl, let's share it.

And, you know, aside from the fact that it was, you know, that page, that Us Weekly article was a bit misleading. I think it's, it's, you know, it's telling to see that clearly at least Kyle and Rina are still really on the same page of like, let's get our girl free. Right, and I do think that they're different, there are different scenarios for sure, but like it's interesting, even as ridiculous, I shouldn't say ridiculous, even Meredith talking about the dinner

and it being paid for and it's knowing they're on a trip and it's a television show and all that stuff. I do think that those moments do kind of ground you though and I think just remind you, like even with like, oh, she is gifting them these custom necklaces. Like it's a little like, oh, you know,

and you could almost forget if it weren't for those like little moments there. But I do think it is kind of the right tone that they're striking. It's not like, again, like, every time they sit down with Jen, they're like, what exactly is going on, you know? Yeah, I honestly would have been more, if I was in Meredith's position, I would have been more upset about the diamond necklace than the dinner because I always think it's a little funny the way they talk about stuff getting paid for on these shows because it's like, in general production is going to pay for dinner while you're on the cast trip. Right. You know, if she's calling in some special entertainment or whatever, but like, this didn't even look particularly over the top in the, you know, given everything we've seen on these shows before, like, it was just like a dinner with some flowers and like maybe a performer, but it's not like, it's not like a party that she's hosting at her home, whereas I think a lot of the time on these shows, it's like, no, Bravo doesn't foot the bill for like Heather's sushi nobu lunch. Right.

You have to kind of know what to look for. And it's like the thing of like on Summer House when they're like, oh, yeah, like, I thought it would be fun to do a sharehouse and like you're on the lease. And it's like, nobody's on the lease. Right. What are you talking about? It's not how many of this works. And you kind of just like, even just, you know, the iconic, like of all the trip introductions, the Megyn King Edmund's Ireland one will always go down in history as like the most ridiculous where you just have to completely suspend your disbelief. and like she's trying to like really discover the lineage of her family.

It's like, sure. Yeah, I, it's on my like long, my like extended to do list at some point to go through and find like the most ridiculous reasons they've given for taking a trip on these shows because it's like, I mean, even like the husband's sending their wives on the thing for Mother's Day and like the idea that the husbands are footing the bill for this, it's like they might have paid for some, you know, activity or spa treatment or something. Like, they might be pitching in on some part of it, but, like, they're not funding this whole trip. That's not how, that's not how being on a Bravo show works. Right. And again, I think what was so fun about girls' trip was that that was the whole thing, you know?

It was like, there was none of that. It was just was like, we're doing this, we're going on this trip. We've never been able to do this before. I was so relieved when we found out on girls' trip that they weren't going to be trying to maintain a fourth wall. Because I was imagining this scenario where it's like, Kyle calls, Kyle calls, you know, Ramona. And Ramona invites Luann. And Luanne texts Cynthia.

And Cynthia brings cat. Like, I was just envision this thing of like, what kind of like disbelief are we going to have to suspend? And they're going to be like, oh, yeah, like, we're good girlfriends from back in the day. And I was so glad that they didn't even try with that. Like, we're not stupid. we're, you know, we've all watched enough episodes of these shows. We barely, you know, we can read between the lines when there is a fourth wall. And like, we certainly don't need one in that context.

But, yeah, honestly, I'm impressed with how much they've been able to maintain the fourth wall on this Salt Lake City trip. Really, until Lisa throws her mic pack at the guy. Basically. They pretty much kept it together. At the white party dinner, you could see. cameras in the back a few times when Meredith was like, you know, doing laps between the house and the table. She was just getting her steps in before the end of the night.

She's like, you know what? I'm done. Actually. Oh my God. Yeah. The production has been tight this season. I feel like they've made it happen. I mean, she just can't take the hatred.

I mean, that's my favorite. Every single state. But now is just like, I just cannot take this hatred, this pure hatred that's being thrown at me. It's pure evil. It's so funny. It's pure evil. Okay, so I just want to ask,

tomorrow we have the Real Housewives of New Jersey season premiere. What are you most excited for going into this season? How are you feeling? Excited? No, I love Jersey, but I feel like Jersey is always, you know, online and everything. It's just like the battle lines are drawn because the group, as much as they do get together, it kind of there is like a clear.

three and three. So I'm not really the most excited about that. But I think it's going to be great. I think like I mentioned, like, it's weird. Now that we're in this era of reboots, where like we can see literally they'll take a pause and rework the show. Like, if you look at Jersey as a whole, like post-camp,

they were really able to rebuild bringing Dolores who like felt like an OG. And then when Margaret came and then Jen and Jackie were such great additions that like, they're just a solid group you know you're going to We're used to them. We're going to have fun with them. And there was a lot of stuff to break down,

especially after the last reunion was crazy. So seeing how the women move on with Jen, the Louis of it all. I have seen the premiere, and there is definitely some carryover from last season's reunion in a couple of different aspects that I think is really smart,

especially keeping the cast the same. It's like the reason to keep the cast the same is because of these larger story arcs that have developed. And so, you know, it is, it speaks to how strong this cast is that they're, that they've kept it the same for four years. And there are still things that I feel like I need to be unpacked on the show. You know, because a lot of the time, it's like, even by the end of one season, it's like,

okay, we kind of have done this. You know, we're good. Bring in someone new. But also I'm excited to meet Tracy. Me too. And she, she's like pretty present in the premiere. So I feel like she's going to be kind of like. an active friend of because oh that makes me happy i mean it feels like she was like they were posting

pictures with her i feel like once they started filmmaking stuff and i think better than michel for sure oh my god with that house i cannot michel oh my god but jersey has always had such a weird relationship with the friend of i think like each show or each production company rather like it means kind of something different but like the friend uh like a the husbands have always been a part of the DNA and I've always had interviews and even though we've had major friend of it's like Rosie Kim G Kim D like Danielle for three seasons like they're not um it's not like some other cities where like the friend ofs are barely even like in like an OC for example sometimes like Sarah or something you know like people that you literally don't remember existing it's like no no no like Rosie's an icon

right exactly no I'm I'm excited I think they always deliver and again there's so much going on with the Jen of it all and also the Louie of it all, which will be interesting for us to just watch it aside for ourselves. I'm apprehensive. Oh my God. Right. It's going to be a ride. You'll have to come back sooner rather than later so we can talk about Jersey once we're

into the thick of it because I have a feeling it's going to be a fun time. Of course. You know, I'd love to. I adore you and this has been so fun. Thank you so much for being here. Jared, before we go, tell everyone where they can find you, where they can read what you're writing, all of that good stuff. Yes. So as you mentioned, I'm an entertainment writer at the griot.com. So you can catch me every day covering some entertainment news. And you can follow me on Instagram at The Jared Alex, where I share a lot of my content. And on Twitter at, hey, it's Jared. Hey with two wives. A great housewives tweeter. If you're into, if you're into Twitter.

But thank you so much for being here. And thank you everyone so much for listening. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mention It All is produced by Sean Kilby and Jorge Morales Pico. Editing by Sean Kilby.

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