Mention It All - Summer House Smackdown Ft. Jordana Abraham (Summer House, RHONJ)

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

Jordana is back, and she joins Dylan to recap the latest episodes of Summer House and RHONJ. At the Summer House, tensions between Ciara and Lindsay reach a boiling point, and Dylan and Jordana weigh in on how this could’ve been avoided. They also discuss the KyManda prenup conversation, and why it feels fake. Then, they cover New Jersey, analyzing how Teresa may be losing her grip on the group. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All. A Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, though. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mention It All podcast.

I'm Dylan Hafer, and I am so glad to be joined once again today by Jordana Abraham, who is back from her honeymoon, and I know just chomping at the bit to talk about Bravo. Hi, Jordana. Hi, Dylan. So happy to be back. I spent the last few days doing what I missed most about being. in the United States, which was binging Bravo. So I'm all caught up, but you'll have to forgive me if some of the episodes like blur into

each other, you know, when you watch many in a row and you can't fully remember what the most recent one was. Absolutely. My current struggle in life is that I'm watching below deck sailing yacht and then the new below deck down under just premiered on Peacock. And they're both very good, but also it's just in my mind. I'm like, so the second stew on sailing yacht is then going to. a hook, like none of the names are cemented in my... Exactly. It's like all overlapping.

Yeah, at least on Summer House and New Jersey, we're dealing with a familiar set of characters. So hopefully we don't get too mixed up. I actually, I want to start talking today about Summerhouse because I feel like these last couple weeks of Summer House have been very contentious. There's a lot of drama going on in the house. And I am very excited to get your takes on some of what is going on. the Austin of it all last week. You were out of the country, but the U.S. was very focused on dragging Austin on social media. Yes. I mean, like, rightfully so.

I having a chance to catch up, I feel like he, yeah, he just came in and he was just messing with everyone. I was watching and I was very annoyed with him. And I mean, I felt very bad for Sierra because I just kind of felt like, I like, you know what I mean? So many women kind of like go through that. that thing where you like like this guy and he's like sort of bait and switched you. And then once she's like in too deep, then he starts messing with her.

And she like truly cares. And I felt I felt for her. Yeah. And on last week's episode at Lindsay's party, there was tensions were obviously running high and people had been drinking. And it seemed like a very long day that they had all been having. And then the news comes out that Austin has made out with both of them on the same day. And in the moment, it's like I would talk.

totally get why you're upset. And then this week's episode was just kind of tough to watch because it's like we're, we've had a week for all of these tensions to just simmer. And you can tell, I think, in a way, Lindsay doesn't care nearly as much as Sierra does. And that kind of, I mean, like, yes and no, I guess because then it's like Lindsay also, you know, isn't a big fan of Sierra. It's just, it seems like a toxic dynamic between the two of them. And, And I think the way that Sierra then brings it up at the dinner table is, you know, just a recipe for disaster. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like they're watching it, you're sort of like, okay, here's three people who are all wrong, like in their own way.

Do you know what I mean? Like everyone in this situation is kind of not doing like handling things super correctly. Like Austin, pretty obvious. Like coming in, messing with both of these women and like sort of playing them. It does seem like he is actually also trying to play them against each other by like telling each other what the other one said and like sort of like kind of like, do you know what I mean? I feel like he's definitely like he feels like in a way he's like kind of thriving off of this. And then he just like bounces and he like escapes any sort of accountability. Yeah.

And you can kind of tell that because Sierra is so focused on the idea of how would Lindsay think that she wasn't going to be upset about Austin potentially sleeping in her bed? And it's like, maybe, but then also if Austin and Lindsay are talking to each other and Austin is like, yeah, I can't wait to sleep in your bed. I don't think it's necessarily on Lindsay to be like, oh, but this other girl in the house who I don't actually like very much might not be super happy because you guys went on a few dates in Vermont six months ago. I think you're right that all three of them could be making different choices to make things go more smoothly. but I also think it seems like for Sierra she's putting most of the blame on Lindsay when I think probably the I would say the biggest villain in this situation has to be Austin. 100%. But here's what I mean like I agree. It's not really like Lindsay's job to be like watching out for Sierra's heart to like to say it in a cheesy kind of way.

But like, you know, Sierra is 10 years younger than her. And I do think that there are. if she wanted to be like a really mature stand-up person, I do think there's a world. And she was avoiding her the week before when she was trying to talk to her. And the fact that she was denying that this week was a little weird because there's very clear footage of the fact that Sierra was trying to talk to her and then she was like dismissing her. So I do think in a world where like she could be a little bit more mature and sort of say,

okay, like I'm older. I've been around the block. And like I've also been kind of like burned by this guy too. I understand where you're coming from. I know what it feels like to kind of be messed with because Lindsay definitely does. She's seen that in many seasons before with Carl, with other guys she's dated where she's sort of like, her feelings are not taken that seriously,

even though she's not in a relationship with the people technically. Like I do think she could have had some empathy for Sierra and sort of like, just given the fact that she's so much younger than her, been like, listen, like, I totally, maybe like maybe I should have bowed out or maybe I should have,

I probably shouldn't have done that. Like, I know what it feels like to be in your position. That being said, I don't think Sierra came with her at her in a vulnerable way either. So that she wasn't really going to be able to elicit that response because she came in with like you isolate your victims and you're like a terrible person basically. And I'm obviously paraphrasing. I don't think that she set the tone for like a real honest vulnerable conversation. Like I think Sierra should have brought it up. I think she had every right to say something because she was upset and it was bothering her.

And I don't think she was like wrongly upset. You feel how you feel. But I think she could have come at it with like a little bit more vulnerability and a little bit less of an attacking sense of like, hey, like I felt really bad when this happened. And maybe, yeah, I wasn't dating him. And yeah, maybe like in Vermont you kind of felt that way too. But like this whole weekend made me feel really, really terrible. And I think if she had like come with that, it would have been a whole. totally different conversation.

Yeah, she really did frame it as an attack on Lindsay's overall character versus just a critique on how the situation was handled. This is a quote that I wrote down because I found it to be so kind of like devastating. She said, you get to be as reckless as you want to be and people just pass it off as your character. And like she's saying that's sad and that's pathetic. And like, I mean, I won't sit. hear and say that Lindsay hasn't made some questionable decisions in her time on Summerhouse, but it's like that's like a cut to the core thing to say to someone that it's like you,

the shittier you are, the more people are just like, that's who Lindsay really is. Like, damn. Yeah. I mean, it just wasn't,

wasn't presented in any sort of way that was going to lead to a constructive conversation. Like, what does she expect Lindsay to say to that? Like, yeah, I'm a terrible person. And like,

like, there was just no, there was like nothing constructive about her bringing it up. that way. It was like really intense and kind of mean. But obviously it was like you see her. It's like, and it's, I felt so bad for her. Like you just see her crying like on and off basically for the past two episodes. Like just like throughout the day. It's clearly, she's clearly very affected by what happened. And I wish that she had just said had come at her with like sadness instead of anger because

I do think Lindsay would have like been okay to discuss it with her. Right. Lindsay would be much more likely to. get on the same level with Sierra if she didn't feel like Sierra was calling her the worst person in the world. Yes. I was, I mean, I wasn't surprised because we saw previews for it. But to see Danielle kind of be the one who takes up on Lindsay's behalf, Lindsay really doesn't get super, super charged, super activated, I guess she would say.

In response to Sierra, it's almost like Danielle is the one who takes on that role. And I mean, those last few seconds with the wine glasses flying and all of that, I never thought we would see that from Danielle. It feels very unexpected. I mean, Danielle, you see, like, they do have, like, a very strong friendship. Danielle seems very protective over Lindsay. And so you did see, like, the elements of her being a really good friend. And then by contrast, you kind of see Paige, like, not a great look for her where she's, like, kind of like smiling as this whole thing is going down. and I think that like it felt a little icky.

I don't know. Like the way that she like set her up to like she was like encouraging her to go and like yell at Lindsay and telling, you know, talking all this shit about her. And then you kind of see once she's like out there, Paige just kind of like removes herself a bit, which I didn't like that much. Yeah. I think Paige is one of those people where I think she is really likable a lot of the time. And I think a lot of the time her sort of read on a.

situation is pretty insightful and accurate. But then there are also these moments where it's like, you're a little bit messy. You kind of like to stir it up. And I think Paige is almost like, she almost comes with a little bit of a like reality TV viewer sensibility where I think she sometimes enjoys watching the drama unfold. And there's nothing wrong with that. Obviously, we like when there is drama on these shows. But when you're playing that role and you're in the group, at some point you might kind of catch yourself in a sticky situation. And I'm curious to see after this fight and this, you know, heightened moment, if there's any kind of moment where Sierra or somebody else comes to page and is like, so like, what was that about? Because it seems like you

kind of were living for that. And that was really rough for everyone else. Andrea is crying and leaves the table. We don't quite know what's up with that. But it's like, this is not a chill situation for in the house. Yes, very heightened, very emotional situation, very interesting dinner topic to go around the table for. But yeah, I don't know, the whole situation felt very, very tense. And I felt bad for like Thera, but like, I guess also a little bit Lindsay too for like having her, you know, just being fully attacked in that way. And I just, I don't know, I wish it, I think it could have gone, it could have been a lot more constructive. But. Here we are.

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Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit Red Bull.com slash Bright Summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer. Earlier in the episode, we see Kyle and Amanda sit down for this pre-nup talk. And really, this just made me think of some of the conversations that you and I have had previously in this season about how it feels a little unclear how much of the Kyle and Amanda plot line this season is being presented to the cameras because they need to present somebody to the cameras or how authentic it is.

And this, to me, kind of felt like the pinnacle of, we're going to talk about this on. camera so we have something to talk about. Totally. So they have like, because like they resolved it seemed like, or at least they're not, they seem over the fights they've been having in the first part of the season. And now they're kind of like, well, what are we going to, what are, what is our role going to be for the rest of this? And the pre-up thing just seemed like a very easy like, you said, plot point that didn't really, it didn't feel organic or real or I didn't buy it. And when Amanda says, look, we've been engaged for three years.

you have that entire time to bring up a pre-up. Why are you bringing it up now? And why would I sign it if I don't feel like it's something that is in my best interest? And I mean, I'm on the same page with her that it seems pretty coincidental that you didn't bring it up until now. And that I feel like it's kind of like an easy, it's an easy, like, tense scene to create. And then nobody is really going to follow up because you can either say we decided to do a pre-up or we decided to do a pre-up or we decided not to. Right.

But nobody's going to be like in that moment. Why was the pre-up not on the table? Like, I don't know. To me, I'm kind of like, Kyle, come on. Just cool it. Yeah. I mean, it's also kind of like if it were real, which I don't think it is. I'm just reiterating that I don't think it's real.

But if it were, that would be like a huge manipulative red flag to bring that up a month and a half or a month before your wedding when you've had three years to do it, it would be a very manipulative move because like if you're doing that kind of document, you want to to like be able to do it at a pace where you both like have time to feel comfortable with like what's in it and what's in like the contract and like and you would want to do you would want to do it and then get married the next day you would want to do it like months before and then like in a way that you felt like comfortable not rushed into signing something so to me like even the act of the idea of a pre-up is not a deal breaker but the bringing one bringing the idea of it up a month

before when you've been engaged for three years is very manipulative and right that would be a big red flag in itself. Well, and I think there's kind of this, some people have this idea, and Amanda kind of expresses this, that a pre-nup feels like you're planning to not be together forever. And I kind of disagree with that. Like, I think it is more of just like, you know, being pragmatic about the way life works sometimes. But in this specific situation, it's like, if you were really being pragmatic, you would have thought about this before now. So. Totally. Yeah. That's, I mean, I agree with your stance on pre-ups 100%. I don't think that there, I don't think that they're, I don't think they themselves are a red flag. The way he presented it and the timing in which he

presented it is really the red flag. But again, I don't fully believe that that was like a real conversation. Yeah, we'll see. I'm sure at the reunion and nosy Andy will ask if the pre-up was, ended up being. Exactly. Before we move to Jersey, I want to get your thoughts on one other potential relationship red flag. And this is when Craig invites Paige to come to his parents' house in Delaware and come eat crabs and play with the dog. And they have not had any sort of commitment. They're not officially in a relationship. I think on paper they are not technically even exclusive with each other.

And I, for one, think Paige is well within her rights to feel like this is kind of weird. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I think of Paige is such a confident person and someone who's like owning her life and owning her dating life and like has all these standards. but she really lets Greg run the show when it comes to this like whatever situation ship they've got going on. Like to me, I would be kind of insulted that someone was like continuously refusing to put a label on a relationship, but asking me to meet their parents and like she doesn't, she's like, oh, of course I would never ask you to do anything. Like she, I think it's a bad example.

She's like, of course I would never ask you to like make it official or call or like call me your girlfriend or say we're exclusive. because like I'm cool. Like she's trying to play like the cool girl. But to me it's like, and it like it's like a faux empowering way to go about this kind of dating situation because she's really just letting him run the show in the name of being like chill. But like that's clearly not what she wants. She wants to be his girlfriend.

So I'm like a little annoyed that he was like very like he did it and then he prefaced it with like and this doesn't mean anything. Like why do you get to say what it means or what it doesn't mean? Right. And he's kind of taking it to be like, It doesn't mean anything because I said it didn't. But even if you're agreeing that the label hasn't changed or the official status of your relationship hasn't changed, that doesn't control it changing the way Paige feels about you or it changing the way the seriousness that it feels like is happening. And it's like at that point, labels are whatever.

If you don't want to, if you don't like the word boyfriend or you don't, you know, it's like a weird thing for you to say, that's. one thing. But if you can't kind of express that you feel a certain level of feelings toward another person or even that you are, you know, not potentially interested in seeing other people, it's like, that's a pretty, that's not really a label. That's just like being on the same page about your feelings for each other. Yeah, I agree. And you could say like, like you said, like you could say this doesn't really, like, I'm inviting you to meet my parents and hang out of my house, but like it doesn't mean anything to me. You could say that, but he didn't even ask her what it would mean to her.

Right. He was just like, this is what I'm doing and this is what it means to me, which is nothing. And like, if you want to come, it'd be fun. You're like, if you want to, yeah. And I was going to be like if you want to platonically come meet my parents, but it's not platonic. That's the thing. Like, it's not like inviting a friend over for the weekend. It's like, so we can fuck while my parents are in the other room.

But like, if they ask if you're my girlfriend, you better not say yes. Right. It's like, and she's like, I mean, she doesn't, she sounds like she's not down to do that, but she also seems like chill with the fact that he would be okay with that for her. I don't know. I didn't like it. TBD. We'll see.

Okay. Let's switch gears and talk about New Jersey. We left off last week on the ropes course, which is where we pick up this week, yelling about Serena and Tenafly and analogies and who's forgiving who. and then who doesn't accept that somebody else is forgiving the other person. This really has just turned into a big old mess. And last week, I know you weren't here, but I was really happy to see Margaret and Jennifer have a really, I thought, nice conversation with each other.

Actually, for the first time in a long time, moved toward getting along, being on the same page. And the way that Teresa just cannot accept that this could be happening, is, oh, it's tough to watch. Because here's the thing, Teresa doesn't care about Jennifer. She doesn't really care about anyone but herself and her kids. And like, and her, and Louie, obviously. And that's just so evidenced in the fact that the only things that she cares about in relation to any of the things going on or how they affect her or like her side.

It's kind of annoying to me and I can know, obviously it's very annoying to Margaret because She, like, you know, decides to take a stand with the, with the workout gear. But I like that. I mean, Margaret obviously not 100% right. But you do have the sense of like, yeah, like someone's got to put her in her place. Like, no, like she just, she's just allowed to go around. And frustrating to me as a viewer, I can only imagine if I were actually dealing with her. It's frustrating to me to just watch someone do whatever the hell they want and never have any repercussions for it and live in their own, like,

fantasy world of the truth and no one ever, she has no consequences. Yeah. And I think earlier in this season, it sort of seemed like the cast was split down the middle and there were sort of two teams. But now that we're at this point, it really does more and more feel like everybody generally gets along. And Teresa is kind of the one who isn't okay with that. And because obviously she doesn't want Margaret and Jennifer to be friends.

she still wants Jennifer to take the blame for digging on Jackie, even though now we pretty much know that Teresa had something to do with that. You know, Dolores and Jackie are fine. I have a feeling Teresa doesn't like that. Teresa clearly still isn't over the Jackie Gia analogy thing, even if we've apologized and apologized and moved past. And that was two years ago at this point. Like, Teresa is really, it becomes clear in this episode to me that she has strong

feelings about who should be friends with who. And it's not cool for her that everybody is suddenly getting along. And she's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, this isn't, this isn't what's supposed to be happening. Because Melissa talked about, and now you're going to be friends. Melissa better. And then, like, she just can't. It's kind of falling apart for her a little bit. But because it's Teresa on New Jersey, I don't think she necessarily will get the backlash or the consequences that other people would if they kind of found themselves in this position. Agreed, which would have been like being isolated and she never, she has like Dolores who's kind of like, you know, feels for her and like Jennifer, who's like still kind of her.

I don't know. But Jennifer, I, it's funny, I didn't go into the season liking Jennifer, but I'm very, I feel very proud of her and her sort of transition and her like taking more ownership of her life. And she like definitely seems to be the person like undergoing the most transformation this season. And it's kind of like it also just kind of like I don't think Teresa likes that she's finding a way to get along with people. And like it's funny that Teresa never even talks to her about the bill thing about anything about her feelings about the bill thing. It's only like sort of just like mentioned as a way to give her own analogy against what she said last year. But there's no sense that Teresa really cares about her or what she's.

going through. Right. She's only focused on making Margaret look bad for bringing it up and watching Jennifer be over on the side like, no, no, no, Margaret and I are good. Like, it's fine. We talked about it. And I'm not mad at him anymore. And like it's, and I'm mad at her. And it is what it is. And Teresa just can't get on board with that. And it's like, it makes me, it does make me like Jennifer more because I feel like she has finally formed her own opinion. And she's not, because Teresa's not okay with Jennifer and Margaret being friends. And for Jennifer to be like, no, Margaret and I are good now. That's fine.

Right. I'm good with everyone, basically. And earlier in the season, it felt like Jennifer had no friends. And suddenly I'm like, she is pretty much good with everyone. Yeah. And I think, like, I kind of think that when Jennifer was going through all this stuff and this fighting with the other girls and she didn't really, I mean, she had Teresa's back in the sense that Teresa was defending herself through Jennifer.

But I think that she realized that she was really alone. she might have not turned on Teresa, but I think not like softened her like intense fierce loyalty because she's like, why am I defend, why am I like the puppet as Jack calls her to this person who's not even like when I'm down is not even really doing much for me? Like I am feeling that she was internally being like, okay, like I've sort of like,

she's kind of in some senses use Teresa to like maintain relevance on the show. And I think now she's kind of like, I could actually be friends with these people. I could, I don't have to like, this doesn't have to be my hill to die on. And I'm going to like relax on my intense. Yeah. You know what I mean? She was like so insulting to everyone.

And I think she's realized that's not really going to solidify her place on the show. Yeah. I think I agree. I think Jen has actually exhibited some growth this season, which is not normally what I would expect from her. But it's been kind of, it's been kind of fun watching her. And I thought her scene with Dolores was really, you know, raw. open last week and watching her kind of force Bill to keep talking about this stuff on camera.

Bill. As much as I don't know if it's good for their relationship. I'm glad that she is trying to hold him accountable, at least, in trying to get him to kind of give her more because I think she clearly really needs that from him. And I don't know how else that's going to happen. Yeah, I loved that conversation because she was, and you could tell he was so uncomfortable during the whole thing. But like at a certain point,

I was like, go Jennifer. Like she's finally saying what she really thinks. Like she's finally saying to him, like, I was home with three kids and I'm pregnant. And like,

you did this and you didn't think about me at all. And like he was his silence. And that's what she was kind of saying. Like he's not saying like is very, what is she supposed to do? And she said he won't go to therapy. I think she said that in the last episode. And I think Bill kind of like the silent like,

like villain, the extremely silent villain this season, he like won't give her anything to work with. And clearly like, I think I've posited this theory before, but like he's kind of just like thrown money at her to like distract her from like looking at anything he's doing or the relate, they're looking deeper into their relationship. And I think that's kind of catching up to him. Yeah. And how Teresa's like, you should be mad at Margaret and Jennifer's like, no, I'm mad at Bill. Like I, you know, the situation with the girls is one thing and maybe there are complicated feelings, but like the issue here is my marriage.

And that exists whether or not Margaret is being messy or spreading rumors or anything like I have a marriage that needs to be worked on. And that has, I think I respect for Jennifer that she's kind of, that's her priority. And, you know, somebody else kind of gossiping about her or whatever at the. the end of the day, she's now focused on what she needs from her home life. And I think, I mean, that is more important because like, this is a TV show. And I mean, Jennifer could use some friends. Like, it seems like her family or at least like you think of her mother or she comes from this culture, which doesn't really a lot, like doesn't create a lot of space for her to find out what's really going on in her marriage or to think about what she wants as a person. She said it herself that

like, you know what I mean? Her mom just was also. talking about Margaret is not talking about Bill. Like no one seems to be like holding him accountable. And I think it's great that she now seems to be starting to have the support system that can like actually help her look into like what this did to her and really analyze it and hopefully come out on the other side, either like with a stronger marriage or figuring out what she wants out of this whole thing. I think it's going to be a very big transformative moment for her.

I hope so. Yeah. It makes me excited for what, you know, in a season or. too, what Jennifer could be where she could be at. And I feel like she could turn over a new leaf. Yeah, I'm excited for her. We see the Jude Ice ladies packing up the house. They're getting ready to move.

I got to say, made me a little emotional them talking about Joe and how it's the last thing they have of him in the U.S. I'm like, damn, I guess that's kind of true. I know. It's the end of an era. That is, that house was like, they moved into their season one, right? Yeah, they were like getting all the furniture and paying for things in cash. Right.

It was not great for their legal case, I'm sure, but very interesting for us as viewers. I liked, I'm not sure, was it this episode or last episode where I finally saw Gabrielle speak. I think it was last episode, but yes. I was like, she's got like some good takes. I feel like I want her, I want to see more Gabrielle. I know. I like all those girls for the most part. I think Gia is like a little too.

involved in her mom's. Like I was like a little, I was kind of like, gee, back off Margaret. Like this isn't your thing. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime originals have everything you want. Steamy romances,

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And she brought everyone the gift bags at the Ropes course. And I do, I respect that Teresa admits that most of the reason she even showed up to the Ropes course, so the women would have her workout gear before they went to the softball game that was going to be filmed. Honestly, I respect it. I am not mad at the hustle. She clearly had a very bad morning. She showed up like coming in hot. I don't know.

I want to know what happened before she got there because she showed up like loaded, like ready to go. Absolutely. But so then she also sends a text specifically requesting that the women wear her workout gear because they, I mean, first of all, because she wants publicity, but also because they're going to be selling it there and a portion of the proceeds, go to charity. That's great, whatever. Not a single person heeds the text.

Nobody is wearing the workout gear when Teresa arrives. And she's like, oh, okay, that's fine. I brought some. You can put it on. And Margaret says no. And I personally, I think a case could be made that if it's for charity, maybe just wear it. But I also, I respect Margaret's choice that she's like,

Literally the last time I saw you, you were screaming your face off at me about something that I thought was already settled in the past. And, you know, you were calling, you were coming for Tracy. It's a whole thing. Sorry, I'm not going to wear your leggings. It's just not going to happen. I was fine with that. Yeah. I think Teresa wouldn't, if the rules were reversed, Teresa would zero chance where whatever Margaret, like,

Macbeth collection. Yeah. Like there's zero chance that Teresa would ever do that. despite Gia saying that she supports everyone else. Yeah. And I respected that. Margaret has like, you know what I mean? She's, I think she's one of the few people that feels somewhat comfortable standing up to Teresa.

And I think that that's her role, definitely her role on the show at this point. And someone needs to do it. I'm like, yeah, let's like, let's do it. Yeah. I think Margaret actually, for how much shit she gets online from Teresa stands, I think she actually can strike a good balance of she understands why Teresa is a legend and she respects that she's been on the show forever. It's not like she thinks Teresa is a total piece of shit and wants her off the show, but she's also like, sometimes you're dumb and wrong. And I'm not going to

feel bad about calling that out because that's why we're here. And I think in that moment, she was well within her rights to say, you know what? No, I'm not going to wear the leggings. I'm fine. It's not going to happen today. And I do agree with you. I thought Gio, was a little out of line when she was giving Margaret shift for that. Because first and foremost, she wasn't at the Ropes Course Day, which was the whole, the reason that Margaret and Tracy didn't want to wear the workout gear, first and foremost, was because of the way Teresa had spoken to them at the Ropes course. And I think if it was more of a general thing of I don't like Teresa, and so I'm not going to wear her stuff,

I get why that would be a little bit more petty. But it's like, Gia, you weren't there for this really, volatile event that just happened. And that's the root cause. And so I thought it was like, maybe just butt out for this once. I agree. And it did make me think,

you know, I think of like the housewives kids in general. And it made me miss, remember Brianna from Orange County? Yeah. And I always felt like Brianna was like such a voice of reason. And like she would always, like she did something that most real housewives kids do not do,

which is sort of like call her mom out and be like, this is kind of like on you. Totally. And you don't really, I mean, that's very rare. You usually don't see that especially on TV. But it made me miss that kind of like child voice of reason impartial. Like someone who's like going to tell their parent, call their own parent out when they're being a little ridiculous. Yeah.

And I thought earlier this season in the situation with Joe and Melissa and Teresa, I thought it seemed like Gio was kind of being a reasonable one because I think. there were, she was sticking up for her mom, but in that case, it felt a little more warranted. Whereas in this case, it's like, you don't need to just parrot what your mom is saying and, like, fight her battles for her. If she wants to yell at Margaret for not wearing the leggings, that's one thing, but you don't have to be involved in this. You could just be at the softball game and, you know, show up. Yeah.

And I don't think that she was even really defending her mom in the Joe thing. I think she was depending her dad. Like, I think that was really more of her thing. And then, like, sort of because her mom, I think almost like that kind of happened just naturally. But I think her main purpose was to defend her dad who wasn't there to defend himself. Yeah, that's a good point. It's a little, it's just a different situation. But I, yeah, I stood by.

I was, I was a little relieved that Melissa just put on the leggings. She says, I'm not going to start have a war in my family over a damn pair of leggings. And, you know, for all, for all the feelings that are between. between Melissa and Teresa, it's like, thank you. Just wear the leggings. One thing about Melissa is that I think she's very good at choosing her battles. She is not always like guns blazing. She is not fighting every fight.

But I think she carefully chooses like what, especially when it comes to Teresa, like, what is she going to choose to like take a stand on, which is like what she's going to let slide. And when you're dealing with someone like Teresa, you kind of have to, you kind of have to do that or else you're just, you know, running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Totally. And I think Melissa gets a lot of flack for not sticking up for her sister-in-law or kind of not being on the right side all the time. But I do think there are certain times when it's like, if Teresa is objectively wrong, it's not Melissa's duty to support her in her wrongness. Like, that's not actually the definition of being a good friend or a supportive sister-in-law is just blindly agreeing with everything you ever said. say, and I think sometimes that's what Teresa wishes Melissa would give her. I think Melissa really is more supportive in the sense that she's like, no, I'll call you out

when I think you're wrong. But it is a juzier battle thing, and this is just simply not worth it. Right. She's just like, I'm not doing that. Agreed. The softball game was fun. I like seeing them get active. Yeah, it was cute. Having the guys there with them was a fun, a fun little vibe.

It's nice to get sporty. Agreed. I guess Bill, again, Bill bows out, does not show up, does not want to be a part of this narrative. Yeah, perhaps he's in surgery. Perhaps he is just not wanting to be there. I think Jennifer said that he didn't want to, that he was like kind of saying that. That's fine. I think so.

Whatever. Yeah, I mean, whatever. Bill can disengage if he wants. I did think it was interesting, just like a last point, when Tiki shows up and Teresa is like, oh ha ha you're asking too many questions stay away from louis but like i love you i tiki and teracy kind of calls out that it's like why is he getting the lovie-dovey funny reaction when he was the one actually asking the questions but but teresa has decided that tracy is like the arch enemy because of course she told her husband to ask the questions i did i kind of felt

for tracy in that moment because i'm like teresa has really not given her an inch yeah I think Tracy just like when she said the thing, when she got into the middle of the fight with the brother with Joe, I think she was like on her. Teresa has a list of like people. You know what I mean? You don't really want to be on her list and she has a list. And I think that Tracy got on that list at that point. And so and one thing about Teresa's rage is it's kind of blind. So it doesn't really matter what the facts are.

Like it doesn't matter that like he's the one that actually asked. It's more like who am I who is on my list and like, and Margaret is obviously on the list. And how do I, like, destroy them? If you talk about the family or you try to pop the love bubble, you're going on the list. The love bubble thing is crazy. You're not going to pop my love bubble. It's absurd. Truly too much.

Maybe the reunion set should be just, like, inside a giant love bubble. That would be amazing. I would love that. Well, Jordana, this was so fun. I'm glad that you are back. This was much needed to talk about everything that's going. on. And thank you so much for being here. Of course. And I'll be back next week. See you that. Amazing. And thank you so much everyone for listening. Don't forget to rate review and follow the show

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