Mention It All - The Black Eye Blues Ft. Sarah Galli (RHOSLC)

Episode Date: January 5, 2023

Dylan is joined by Sarah Galli, host of Andy’s Girls, to unpack the latest happenings in the world of RHOSLC. They begin with the latest development in #JENTENCING week, and how it could impact Jen Shah’s prison time. Then, they dig into this week’s episode, where Heather’s unwillingness to talk about her black eye is dragging the entire season down. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope.

It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Betches Media presents Ha ha laugh funny Mention It All A Bravo by Betches podcast We don't say that

But now we said it With me, Dylan Hafer Heyver Hey everyone Welcome back to the mention at all podcast I'm Dylan Hafer And today I am happy

to be joined in the studio Once again for the first time In 2023 though It's a new year We're getting it off the ground I'm excited to be joined By my good friend Fellow Bravo Holic

Host of the Andy's Girl podcast. Please welcome Sarah Galley. It's a new beginning for us. We're off to such a good start. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to be here. You're starting your year off with a bang. You're getting right into it. You have a show tonight. I do. I'm doing a live show online, a moment with moment, where I will be joined by legal analyst and badass lawyer Emily D. Baker talking all things Shawmageddon in advance of tomorrow's sentencing, which I plan to attend, and guest co-host Ryan D. Bailey is going to be there. It's going to be, I mean, online with me tonight. He lives in LA. We love Ryan. Yes. We love Ryan. Yes. So you are planning to attend the sentencing.

You know, okay. Is this something, okay. So we talk. Planning is the operative phrase. The last time you and I really talked was a few weeks ago. I was on your podcast. Oh, yeah. I was like we talk every day. Pre-holidays. The last time we like sat down. Deep-dived. Yeah. So is there like a, is there like a credential?

Do you have to wake up tomorrow morning and just like wait in line? How does this work for the people and for me? So funny you should ask. So initially, if I am to understand Google and like the federal courthouse.com, initially the sentencing was like 2.30 in the afternoon, which I was really here for. Because I think you have to prepare a certain amount of chaos before something like this. especially when there's a pretty substantial media interest that crosses over from Bravo into, like, greater actual news. Right. It's not like a Britney Spears hearing level of interest, but it is like there are a few thousand people who care about this.

A hundred percent. And there are also news outlets that are like, I'll send someone. So I called the courthouse this week, their comms department. To be like, what's the deal with media access? Because I'm writing about it. Obviously, I'm going to talk about it on. AG. I'm going to do a special episode on Andy Scrolls right after. And the person who answered was like, it's like first come, first serve. It's open to the public. We're not doing press passes. And I was like, I felt like I was making a reservation at the restaurant. I was like, do you have like a recommended time for a arrival? I'm asking like the, like I'm going to JFK or something. And she absolutely laughed as she should. And she was like, I have no recommendation. You're like, is there a promoter I can text? I was like, is there a manager?

Is there like a separate door, a list that I can get on? Is there a VIP? Is this BravoCon? It's literally BravoCon, 20, 23, early, and I have a general admission ticket, and I'm just in the fight for my life. And also, instead of 2.30 in the afternoon, it's now 10 a.m. And I don't even know if this is like a door's open. Is that like a bag? Wait, what time do doors open?

So, like, doors open. I thought at 830, but now at 8. And I was talking to the Bravo docket, friend of ours. Yes. And they were like, get there early. And I was like, babe, like early as 10. What's early if the doors open at 8? Like what?

I don't know, but it's not going to happen. Are we trying to get like rush tickets for rent in 1998? Literally, is there not a lottery? I might call back and be like, it's me again. Just touching bait. Can we like figure? Is there a Today Ticks lottery for the Jen shot sentencing hearing? It's literally wicked or rent all over again.

But I don't think my name. I don't think I'm going to get the golden ticket. I really don't know. I'm nervous. You will have boots on the ground. Whether or not you are in the room, you will be at the, you'll be in the vicinity. I made the executive decision that I am not going to go. Smart.

Because personally, just for me from a content perspective, I feel like it's easier for me to be pulling assets, making a post, figuring out what's going on if I'm just like soaking it all in online. Also, because sometimes in the courthouse, they're like, no tweeting, no using your phone. Like, I remember people getting reprimanded during Brittany. During Brittany, during even Jen Shaw's arraignment. I remember being at that people were, yeah, that was dialed in. That was crazy.

Both times. She had a tech rehearsal. She couldn't, she couldn't get on the line because there were too many people on the line. Sorry for snorting. It's iconic. I mean, we needed something to live for at that point. And that gave it to us. 100%.

And also, like, you don't need. Truly would not recommend that people attend this. It's going to be lunacy and also in federal court. You absolutely, your phones are not allowed in the courtroom. Right. So I'm going to be there with my legal pad and a pen trying to remind myself how to use cursive. It's, wow. I'm prayers.

You're going to know more than I will. I swear to God. Well, yeah, because I'm going to be on, I'm going to be refreshing. Twitter every 2.5 seconds. I'll be like in the back of the room not understanding what's happening asking someone if they can speak louder. I'll be texting you what's happening while you're physically in the room. 100%.

And I won't be able to get those texts because I won't have my phone. So I'm going to be at least an hour behind you in front of your computer at Betches HQ. And I'll be sitting in bed with my microphone ready to record my hashtag Gentensing. Emergency update. That's what I have deemed it. It's Gentencing. Your Honor. Wait, you guys, I've been using shot and fraud.

Oh, that's good, too. No, but that was the early days. That was back in the day when we were learning about the case. Yeah. Hashtag Gentinsing. It's upon us. I'm 100% going to use that, but I'll credit you. Your summer starts now with Memorial Day deals at the Home Depot.

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and free people. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Okay, so we have some breaking news in the Jen Shaw case just this week coming in. So in the last few weeks, both Jen's team and the prosecution have submitted all their sentencing, memorandums, documents, whatever. There's letters. proving her character and there's victim impact statements and all this stuff and, you know, requested sentences. Jen wants like 36 months, three or whatever, lower.

The government wants 10 years. But then just yesterday, the government filed a request. This is, I'm reading straight from the Bravo docket who we love on Instagram. They are two lawyers who happen to love Bravo and write things in words that we can understand. Amen. Which we love a translator. Lord knows, we need it. Okay, the government has filed a request to add new evidence they just received against Jen Shah. According to them, after Jen Shah submitted her memorandum describing

her character and requesting a lower sentence, an individual contacted the government via an unsolicited letter describing their experience with Jen. The government interviewed the individual who provided them with corroborating evidence on their experience with Jen, including a temporary restraining order and a Nevada police report. The government requests that the court consider the events involving individual one and their letter. for sentencing. So, and they're saying the manner which the defendant treated this individual is consistent with the government's understanding of how the defendant frequently interacted with others,

including other participants in the business opportunity scheme, which is what this all is. Yeah. Stemming from. So it seems pretty notable that after all of the, you know, eyes are dotted and T's are crossed with these sentencing documents for somebody to basically slide into the government's DMs and be like, hey, just, just before we get all of this out of the way, like, I have more. And for the government to listen and be like, okay, this is this, we actually, this is more information that we need, not just like is something random off to the side. They're like, no, no, no, look at this

too. Yeah, it's a real October surprise is what it is. It's like days before the election, someone's going to do something fucking nuts. And Kiki, a friend of ours, also, known as the talk of shame posted the actual witness statement that is directly correlated to this. So if anybody wants more information, go to the talk of shame. Yeah, I have the TMZ article, which I think. It's nuts. I just read. That's what we were talking about it before.

Okay. So I found it. So TMZ has obtained this woman's, the individual. It's so not. The restraining order docs, which were filed in Nevada. And she details an alleged trist her husband was having with Jen, which erupted into a blowout when the woman sent screenshots of texts to Jen's. own hobby. Oh, Coach Shaw, pray for Coach Shaw. The woman claims Jen tried confronting her.

She ignored her, which allegedly pissed off Jen to the point of driving across state lines to try to see the woman in person. She alleges Jen showed up unannounced on her doorstep at 2.30 a.m. She called the cops. And in the end, the woman got her temporary restraining order granted. Unclear what happened after that. But basically, it's so weird because we know so much about the business part of the scheme, but the fact that now there's this other woman basically just saying that Jen was like unhinged and fucking her husband. It's funny that the government is like, this is relevant because to me it almost seems like a separate issue. But I guess in the idea of sentencing, you're taking into account all of these behaviors and the way they're

acting and, you know, she's partying at the Rose Bowl and she's getting glam and all of this stuff. And I feel like the weird thing about sentencing is that technically anything, it's like anything you say and do and post can be used against you. And it definitely seems like this is an example of that. And it doesn't seem like Jen has really made any effort to not do things that could be used against her. Yeah, while defending her character and also saying and arguing that the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City is a highly edited show that's not really showing the real her. And obviously there's truth to that for anyone who's on The Real Housewives. The problem, though, with this very last minute edition, which to my understanding, I could be completely wrong, is coming from someone who had not previously contacted the government. So it's literally the first time the government's been hearing about this. And I would assume, that this person was inspired to reach out after seeing the ways that Jen was communicating, the fact that some of this is just a bad edit from the Lord above. Like some of this isn't really the real Jen.

And you can make that argument. A lot of people or housewives who either don't want to take responsibility or accountability for their behavior on housewives and or just want to pretend that they're perfect and great, will argue that maybe I said those things, but they're misconstrued. It's a bad edit and this is an entertainment show. And it sounds like what this person is saying and what the government is arguing is, while Jen may say that Cochaw being away changed her and the housewives showed a person who doesn't exist, she's really not like that.

She performs for TV. This is a direct example of someone saying she is as wild IRL as she is on TV, except she was also threatening me and showing up at my house. Yeah. And obviously, like, we've heard hundreds of people who have been on reality TV, blame it on the edit. That's not a new thing. That's not a novel concept. But in her, in her defense of herself and in her sentencing documents, she has really leaned into the idea that this is not just, not just, you know, a produced show, but essentially a scripted show that is, you know, very staged. And, you know, it's really far from the truth of who. who they are and what goes on and all of this stuff. And I mean, I feel I feel pretty solid in the idea that I have been around reality TV enough and talk to enough people and have enough experience with it that like I feel like for the most part, I have a pretty good feeling for the amount of massaging that goes into production and the amount of, you know, set up kind of

stuff that happens. And it does feel like Jen is taking it. step further than the truth of how surprised how these shows are made i can't believe it are you saying that what she said happened isn't what's really happening yeah and it's uh it's funny on on this week's episode it sort of comes back into play when uh we're hearing from angie k that jen has reached out to angi h about kind of making amends with her and her husband after finsta gate and lisa's like yeah, the thing about Jen is that you really never know what you're going to get with her, and she's not a trustworthy person. So then when you think about that, and she's telling us she's innocent,

and we're all just believing her, it's like, how do we actually know? And it's like, wow, Lisa, that's so insightful. How do you actually know? Why do you just believe her? Because, I mean, it seems like to you and to me and to most of the people outside of the situation, there hasn't been a day since Jen Shaw got arrested, where we were inclined to believe her. I don't remember a single,

obviously there's always a couple iconoclasts, but I don't remember really anyone. When Jen was arrested, it was like, what the fuck is happening? But I don't know that anyone was necessarily surprised. Heather included, by the way, who said long ago that she found Jen's business practices to be quote unquote unsavory.

It is one of those things where it's like, we are the portrayal, the self-portrayal of Jen this season as like this innocent victim of a federal conspiracy, I think would be wild to anyone to watch regardless of whether or not she had changed her plea because it's unbelievable. It is like actually quite literally unbelievable based on our understanding of who Jen is that she would be her greatest witness. It did make me laugh hearing Angie Kay respond to this SEC filing about Lisa's, Lisa and John's situation in the confessional. She's like, there's no way Lisa and John are broke. Would you be driving that car?

Would you be living in that house? Would you be wearing those brands? If she's broke, I want to be broke. And it's like you're sitting across the table from somebody who's about to go to prison for profiting off of a business that was, questionable. Unsavory at best. Unsavory at best. We know it was illegal.

She literally pleaded guilty. It's like, Angie, you're literally, like, I'm not saying that Lisa is doing what Jen was doing because, you know, that's a whole separate situation that I feel unqualified to comment on. But it's like, yeah, like, we've, haven't we spent the last two years on this show realizing that things aren't always what they appear to be? Angie Kay is confessional during this episode of like, better cash that check before the government takes it. I was like, babe, you're not good enough at this to say that. Like, whoever fed you that line, we should have done another take. It was so unnatural for her to say it. And yet they needed someone too.

So it had to come from Angie Kay. Right. Like, it was a good line, but coming from her and in the way it was delivered, I'm like, okay. It reminds me of not to bring us down by. by mentioning an unsavory person, it reminds me of Cameron Westcott's tagline one year where she was like, I have heels that are higher than your standards. And it's like, that is such a good tagline delivered in the absolute least charismatic way. It's tough sometimes.

It is, it really. I have heels that are higher than your standards. I can't. I really. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry to mention Cameron Westcott. I mean, shout out to Sparkle Dog. Hopefully those dogs are doing better now.

Wasn't that? Cranberry was like a primary ingredient, which apparently is like super bad for a dog's digestion, but she really wanted them to shit pink. Yeah. Was it worth it? The Amazon reviews. My dog spent three days throwing up. And the food was like barely pink.

Yeah. Wasn't it like a weird? Well, because it's brown. So it was like a shit pink. Right. And also only. it was like in Lucky Charms how it like only every maybe every like 10th piece of the food in the bag was pink. Oh, it wasn't all pink.

Well, yeah, because I think that would really be quite terrible for your dog. I think. I mean, sorry if my memory of Sparkle Dog has gotten, has grown foggy. It hasn't been available to purchase for years. Honestly, an iconic business when you think about it because like who would ever want this? Dallas for all its quirks and bad moments. That's a good merch. Some good, some good unhinged housewife business ventures because Leanne's dress.

And remember when Andy was like, this is the best thing that anyone has ever thought of? The L infinity dress. Right. Iconic. Hilarious. Iconic. Sparkle dog. Hilarious.

I mean, and then actual quality. Dr. Tiffany's candles are phenomenal and very funny. The candles are good. The candles are good. I'm trying to think, did Dallas have any other? Oh, I mean, like. Deandine's. Yeah, green morning, wake up in the morning.

Hard day. Hard day. Hard day. Hard night. Yeah. Hard day. Good morning. I don't know.

You got to get it. Deandra. Her whole storyline hinging on getting it out of the bottle and into the pouch. Oh my God. And Mama Dee's like, you're never getting it into that pouch. I want to know how that's doing. Do we know? We don't know.

I don't. Well, that's a weird one because it was allegedly so successful dating back pre-house wives. But then it felt like the whole time she was on the show, it was this like grind of how do we get this business to be in a good place. And it's like, I thought this was like why you're rich, allegedly. It is. You know, it's fascinating when you think of the ways that different housewives define both their own success seemingly financially and also like professional challenges when they exist in gray areas. Like putting aside Dallas. the gen question of it all, I think it's going to make it more difficult for people in the future who may have unsavory business practices that are less hard to define, to define them in a way that feels light and interesting and informative and doesn't raise question marks.

Right. Because when you go, the second she got arrested, people were going back and pulling these old clips of her describing what she does. And it's like, I didn't understand it at the time. And I still don't. But I know that it doesn't sound real or. What is it called? It's like lead something? Like lead generation.

Yes. Where you're getting information and then selling it to other companies to use. But the problem is that like these other companies that people were being led to believe existed didn't. Right. Like you're selling the leads to a company that you know is fake and that you also are in control of. Right. Sorry, guys. We just.

But I think that's also, it's also interesting talking about the Lisa Barley. situation that when you first come on the show and we're meeting you for the first time and you're like, yeah, we have all these alcohol brands. It's such a huge deal. We're so successful. And we are queen of Sundance, et cetera, et cetera. I don't know about her whole financial picture, but I do know that this show has been on for three years now. I don't know anyone who's ever been able to find Vita tequila in a store. Like, is it sold in New York? I really don't know. I know it's sold online, right? I think is that illegal? I don't. I don't. I think. Is that illegal? I don't even know.

I don't know. Yeah. But I think it's one of those things where it's like it's when you first meet a housewife, it's like, okay, we take it at face value like you're rich. But then when it's a few years in, there start to be more questions. And I think, you know, I understand why Lisa's upset that the women in the group are like talking about an SEC filing behind her back. But it is kind of like where, how are you making the money?

Yeah. And I think it gets into the idea of being a serial entrepreneur when you're juggling a bunch of different businesses versus. is like, Heather is obviously very successful and her business, I think, is booming right now. Like, I do think that Beauty Lab is flourishing. They have a different, a second location. She seems to be doing really well. I have questions about Meredith. Like, I know, obviously, Seth is very successful. You know, Meredith has a law degree. I don't know if she's practiced, but she's obviously highly educated and has been a terrific translator for the audience. But like,

Meredith Mark's jewelry, like, is that, I know that there are pictures of Rihanna wearing a necklace 15 years ago. But like, is there an audience for that? Has her jewelry line genuinely been financially successful in such a way that would support the lifestyle we are seeing her live? I mean, I can't answer that. I have no idea. I agree that it seems like it's again, like when you first come on the show and you have the idea that it's like I have this celebrity jewelry brand. Look, here's a picture of Rihanna wearing it. Like, that's cool. It's cool that Rihanna has worn your jewelry. Like that is objectively. a cool thing that means that your product has been in whatever circle that is, you know,

a stylist is seeing it, a celebrity is seeing it, whatever. You have your brick and mortar store in Park City. That's cool. But it's, yeah, it's like, I don't, I don't think you're like raking in cash off of this jewelry. Yeah, it gets into the question of identity. When some of these women join the show, they want to identify themselves and make sure we understand them as successful business women, as also sometimes residents of this. state that they're filming in, which may or may not be factually correct. And it's interesting to unpack that, noting that when it comes to Salt Lake, we're really only putting a critical lens over Lisa's business and nobody else's, which is fascinating and incredibly disingenuous when

Jen is there saying, I'm super innocent. I can't say anything else. And everyone else in the cast, until maybe very fairly recently and not really in depth is like, well, I have a couple questions. Yeah, I don't know. All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the strawberry watermelon refresher and the mango pineapple refresher with popping boba to crafted sodas like the Spriteberry blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so far. Try them all now at McDonald's.

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Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit red bull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer. We got to talk about Black Eye Gate because... Oh my God, Dylan.

Dylan. Never has... Trigger warning. We don't know. Never has... We don't have an answer. Never has a dead horse felt so unnecessarily beaten than Black Eye Gate. Ouch.

By... Okay, so three weeks ago, we saw the Black Eye was going to be coming soon. Ooh, exciting. This was in the trailer for the... the season. We've been teasing it. Two episodes ago, it was like, okay, she's about to get the black eye. Next week, we're going to get the answers. Last episode, immediately. It seems clear. We're not getting answers. Heather doesn't want to talk about it. Sometimes it seems like she doesn't remember. Sometimes it seems like she's protecting someone. Sometimes it seems like it's unclear what

the motivation is for not saying it. And then by this episode, it really just feels like, if you're not going to talk about it, stop talking about it because this isn't fun for us. It doesn't seem fun for you. I don't know. I'm curious your thoughts. Do you feel like this is a production issue or a Heather issue or both that they're dragging this on? It's so frustrating. I think it's a combination, but I do think there is a heavy majority here on Heather for.

making so many chaotic choices that all contradict each other. And I did this on last week's episode and also last nights where I literally typed as she was saying things. I put them, I like had to type it out and save as you know as like a content creator. It's like what the fuck even happened after you're watching an app. But also because I needed to see what she was saying because it didn't make sense. So there was points where I think the episode kind of started with her saying, we're still unsure what happened their theories. And then in a later scene, we're not going to tell them why because they don't deserve to know.

Then she paused because they already do. And they want us to say it out loud. And Meredith's just kind of looking befuddled and cuts to her confessional where she tries to push back even though in real time she was dead fucking quiet. Meredith's confusion was so relatable in that moment because she's like, wait, I'm being included in the set of people who allegedly are supposed to know what happened. Yeah. But it's clear to me that it's like you're trying to do process of elimination, right?

Because there's only so many people that are even around in the vicinity. And it seems clear that it seems clear to me Meredith doesn't know. Yeah. It seems clear to me. Or didn't know then. Yeah. Right, right, right. In the context of the show.

It seems clear to me Whitney doesn't know. Otherwise, why are we having this whole conversation at Whitney's house at the end of this episode? I can't imagine Whitney just. just like faking that. Whitney's not an actress like that. It seems clear, you know, Dana doesn't know a damn thing. Lisa obviously doesn't know. Lisa doesn't know.

The only people that I could like even theoretically see knowing something and not saying it are like Jen and Angie K. But like, okay. I don't, I don't know. It's just is so, it's frustrating because there have been other times in Housewives where we want to know something that we're not going to find out. But it's never been so kind of thrown in our faces that it's like this event has happened. We're going to spend three episodes talking about it, but we're never going to give you any kind of payoff.

There's no, it's so unsatisfying. And so like it just feels like a miscalculation. I think you're right. I think it's a mix of both. I think it's a miscalculation by Heather of how she's kind of teasing this and beating around the bush. and I don't know if she realized that it would be so frustrating for viewers, but then also I feel like production is kind of leaning into it.

And it's like, I don't want to be teased if there's not going to be an answer. Yeah, I think it's a complete misdirection, attempt at a strategic misdirection by Heather and a total misunderstanding by production of how the audience would feel because it feels like we are being portrayed as a joke, like that we are supposed to, you feel concerned for Heather, delight in her joking about it, also, you know, give a side eye to people in the cast who she's very loudly inferring are in the middle of this, involved in this, we're present for this, and understanding that by the seemingly incredibly genuine, shocked looks on their faces and questions that they absolutely don't know,

It's the way that she's trying to portray her cast members as complicit in something that she does remember or doesn't and is falling down seven times to try to figure out how she got all these scratches and bruises and stuff. And none of it tracks. And when you said that the only people that you think know are Jen and Angie K, I think it's Jen and Angie H. what did you think about that scene between Heather and Angie H where Angie's like, will you tell me what happened? No, I'm really worried for you. Oh, yeah. I mean, I guess I don't really think Angie K is like super involved.

I just more, because like Angie H wasn't on the trip. So there's no chance that she was, you know. Present. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or looped in. Involved in the incident. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you.

I mean, it's weird because Angie H has been so out. absent for these last few episodes because obviously she wasn't on the trip. That's a separate conversation that I don't particularly care to have. But it is a little bit like we come back from this trip and it's like, oh, right. Okay. We have this, this fucking girl. Okay. She's back.

Oh, Heather. She missed Heather so much. Oh, she's so concerned for Heather. And I don't, I mean, I guess I believe that Heather and Angie Harrington are friends. I guess I believe that that's a real friendship. Absolutely. But I just don't care. Like I don't, I don't care that much about Angie Harrington as a person or her relationships with these women.

I think the Finsta thing and how her husband kind of handled slash didn't handle that was like fascinating in a, in a bizarre way. But like I don't, I'm not invested in her being besties with the group. And so I'm a little bit just like, okay, you're so concerned. You're trying to figure out all of these women are like worried and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I'm like, I don't know. I just like, it's hard for me to have like specific feelings because I'm like, I just don't care. Yeah, I think so much of this season and the season in general is landing like a lead balloon. And to me, the heather of it all and the way that she has behaved and the way that she was like friendship, shaming Whitney by withholding the information.

because, you know, if Whitney doesn't want her to be in her inner circle, then Whitney doesn't need to know what happened to her eye. Like, you're to blame for not wanting to be my friend, so I don't owe you an explanation is so incredibly problematic when we're talking about what looks like a facial injury that could have been caused potentially by another cast member or by a situation that was violent in nature. And to dangle that,

information as something Whitney doesn't, as the reward that Whitney won't receive because she doesn't want to be friends is so deeply problematic and fucked up and so incredibly manipulative that it's hard to watch this stuff because all I'm thinking is like what happened to Heather and is this the real Heather? Like the ways that she is behaving, the confusion that I feel about her, because I think it's like a total 180 from the Heather that I had so much affection for the last two seasons, I find myself thinking like, okay, is this the reveal of who Heather is, or is it a bad edit or just a really terrible series of strategic errors that she's made?

Yeah, I think I agree with you that it's like, I understand why she is hurt by Whitney telling other people that they're on a friendship break when this hadn't been necessarily defined to her. Defined to her or, you know, they hadn't really had. Yeah. Whatever. I understand that. But to, yeah, to kind of throw out the like, well, I didn't realize you cared what was

happening to me when it's in such a, it's like. Passive aggressive. Yeah. It's like, okay, maybe I don't care like, you know, to text you on a Tuesday and be like, how's your day going? but like if you're insinuating that somebody like assaulted you, I still want to make sure you're okay. Like those are completely different things and saying that you need a break from talking every day and just kind of like shooting the breeze with someone in a casual way is different than saying like

I don't really care about your like general well-being at all. Yeah. And it's not only insinuating that like you're not going to find out this information and something terrible happened to me, but also you're not going to find out this information, pause, because you already know? Like, it doesn't make any sense. And it makes me feel, I hate the fucking word gaslit, because I feel like it's been overused a thousand times. And yet, how are we supposed to feel about this? Well, right. And I think because we don't have an answer, any sort of answer about what actually happened, when Heather is kind of adding these weird layers onto it of, I'm not going to tell you, You don't deserve to know, but also maybe you already know or somebody already knows or maybe I don't remember.

It's because if we knew the answer, maybe we could understand if there was some kind of strategy going on in Heather's brain. But because we don't have any kind of way in as the audience, it just feels like we're watching a weird, you know, ineffective conversation that's just going to make everybody unhappy. It feels like Heather is conflating potentially being the victim of some sort of incident with being the victim of their friendship. And those two just don't meet. And it's like the equalizing of it, noting that we have literally no idea what happened to her eye. And it absolutely could have been an accident. It's like no matter how you think of these things, none of it tracks, which yeah. At this point, I honestly...

That's what I want to know what you think. My best guess is that it was some kind of accident. Because when I think about other incidents that have happened in the past, if there was really like one cast member attacking another cast member or something of that nature, how would Bravo justify not doing anything about it? Like thinking of, specifically, my mind will always go back to that season of Potomac when Monique and Candace happen and all of the hand-wringing about not contoning violence and all of this stuff. And it was such a conversation. And it's like if somebody, if the powers that be had information that let's just say, Jen, I don't know anything, whatever, had like punched Heather in the face and given her a black eye, wouldn't there be some responsibility to. discipline, Jen, or comment on that or offer Heather, like, support in that? You know, like, that is kind of the biggest question mark to me that it's like, if this were

the type of violent situation between cast members that is sort of being teased, I don't, literally, literally and figuratively teased. I don't think we would be able to just move on and not actually address that. Or at least I don't think Bravo would be able to. Yeah. And it's the wink, for lack of a better term, from Heather of I just want to move on, but not quite yet. I just want to move on.

But as I'm moving on, I just want to drop some pearls for the audience and the rest of my cast to consider about what may or may not have taken place. And from an HR liability perspective, I don't see production showing up, seeing Heather look the way she did and being like, cameras up, ready, ready to go. which is why the producer in her confessional asking her what happened, why won't you tell us what happened? I'm like, again, from the place of being disingenuous, are you telling me that this, that her producer really truly doesn't know what happened? Are we supposed to believe that that means that nobody knows on the part of the network of Bravo? And also, PS, judging by Whitney's responses on Watch What Happens Live, I don't know that we're ever going to get an answer to that.

No. I actually don't think we're going to get an answer, certainly not the answer that we expect in something being clearly stated because I think Heather's slightly fucked. I really do. I don't think there's a way out of this for her if she's honest about what took place because there are so many questions about her reactions to this. Right. It's like the initial incident of it isn't even necessarily the biggest question mark at this point. it's like, yeah, it would be nice to know what happened. But whatever happened, then there are going to be more questions about how you handled it in the, you know, in the days afterward. And again, like you were saying, the idea that her producers would just have no idea what happened, when they're on these trips, I mean, the whole time they're filming the season, but especially when they're on these trips, they are talking to their personal producers constantly. You know, there's no world in which, from my understanding of how these shows are made, there's no world in

which Heather would wake up and be texting Jen and having these group conversations and not also having spoken to her producer probably before any of those conversations in the morning. So it's, it's weird to act like production is just this like outside thing where they're like, what did happen? Also, it's not like these filming moments, regardless of whether or not you're on a trip, happen the way we watched MTV Cribs. It's not like someone, the doors open to Heather's room. There's a camera crew there. And she's like, welcome in.

And that's exactly what takes place. People show up in the morning. I'm sure there's some sort of text exchange of like what happened last night, keeping people in the loop. You get miced up. You get miced up. You're talking about the schedule and the day. You cannot tell me that this woman had her sunglasses. is on the entire time and nobody noticed. And then she revealed it on camera and they didn't say

cut. And for a franchise in a universe, that will use the fourth wall, breaking the fourth wall, especially when it helps with big moments, allah, I need to talk to Eric on Potomac, which I thought was used very effectively in that episode and also just in general in the storyline, the through line of this season. You cannot tell me that there wasn't some sort of conversation with Heather, which again makes me feel very uncomfortable about what they are choosing to include. Yeah. And I mean, thinking about with Potomac, again, going back to the Monique and Candace situation

that happened, thinking in that situation when they were basically chasing Monique around the property, you know, like that whole kind of thing, like breaking the fourth wall. in that way can really illustrate when something has gotten too big for the confines of the show, of what this is supposed to be. And that Eric moment too, Candace had basically just like, you know, pulled the rip cord and was like, no, no, no, this is not what it's supposed to be. And I think thinking of what happened with Heather in San Diego, it's like, it almost seems like that should have been one of those moments where it's like you take off the glasses and it's like,

wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, this is, this is bigger than girls' trip to San Diego. This is what's happening in real life right now. Yeah, I needed Meredith to talk to Eric. I needed one of the camera people to ask to talk to Eric, to demand, to talk to Eric. It's fucked. It's like, I don't know if you've ever gotten into watching Survivor. Oh my God, I love Survivor. I haven't, I'm super behind on this.

No, no, it's not a current thing. But, you know, like when somebody gets, like, injured or something and they're like, we got to get the emergency crew and like all of a sudden it's like no no something real is happening we're not just like all these people that we hadn't seen ever before I mean obviously not like that's not good when it happens on survivor but it's like we needed the like survivor helicopter to come get Heather yeah and we needed Jeff Probst to go from being like the host of this competition let's get it started to like there's a problem here I'm project managing time out put it on put it on pause we're going to make sure everyone's okay and then we can like get back

into it. And like, I guess there is theoretically a chance that that happened and they decided not to show it, but I can't really imagine that. But how does that work then when the structure and setup of the reunion is to unpack, maybe have some surprise reveals of things that happened, but really respond to what took place during the season? How are we being expected to give a single fuck about anything else, but at least, at the very least, getting clarity on what occurred when there was a decision to utilize this as the spoiler at the end of the season trailer as the hugest part aside from the ongoing stuff with Jen of the second half of the season. If we can't get clarity, if Andy can't deliver that answer to us, and maybe that's happening

because he knows what the answer is and it's just not going to satiate a lot of very concerned audience members who are very upset that we still don't know. like what is that even say about the construct of Salt Lake City? Yeah. Next week is the season finale. And then there's a two week break, right? I'm not sure. But I am, I was starting to think about the reunion as I was watching this episode.

Obviously, obviously what happened to Heather is a big question mark that I think everyone is hoping, praying for some kind of, some kind of resolution, clarity answers on the reunion, whether or not that seems likely. I'm also wondering after that final scene in the episode of Heather and Whitney really seeming like they are at an impasse and just being like, okay, we're going to take, we're just going to give each other space for now. Is this a reunion that we're going to see kind of like a coming back together for them? Or is it something that is broken beyond that? Because we know from what we've heard, from what has been teased, we know that they fought the whole time on Ultimate Girl's trip that they filmed. after this season of Salt Lake. We know they were at each other's throats at BravoCon. It doesn't seem like there has been kind of a softening as we've maybe had some time apart. And so I, as much as I would like to think that maybe this reunion is going to have a really,

you know, nice moment of them kind of putting the bullshit aside and moving forward. And I think that would be, you know, a nice healing moment. I'm like, I'm not getting my hopes up. Also, that makes me so sad for Girls Trip. Because Girls Trip has been such a safe space for so many of us to like delight in what these episodes and what these like medley of, I mean, allah, Durenda, what this like medley of casting has brought. And to be reminded of the I thing and just reminded of like the general state of affairs with Heather and Whitney to me is like so depressing and also exhausting. and I just feel defeated by all of it. And I just don't know that I,

I am so deeply not invested in their friendship. I'm just trying to get out of here with my hands clean at this point. So like to think that that's going to be the focus of girls' trip when it's such a good cast. It is interesting to think the first couple seasons of girls trip. We've had, it's not like there's been no drama related to anything that has happened on a Housewives franchise,

but there hasn't been any kind of continuation of drama coming straight off of the main show like that. And so, you know, we've, you know, it's like, okay, Jill and Durinda have their whatever that's happening. Taylor and Brandy are talking about something that happened on Beverly Hills 10 years ago. But we've, we haven't had just like, you and I fought during filming of Salt Lake, and now we're going to come on this show together and we're still mad at each other about this thing that has not had time to dissipate.

And so I, you know, I hope the rest of the women in the group can, you know, offer enough other Marisol get in there with those cockies. Oh my God, I can't wait for Marisol and Loxia. Do your worst.

Honestly, I like, they are, Miami is giving me everything I've ever needed in my entire life. I'm just so sad about Salt Lake. I just feel like dirty watching it

and grossed out. And I can't believe that some of that doesn't involve Jen in this, in terms of what we're actually seeing take place. It's just such a downer. I don't want to feel this. Well,

dirty watching it. I don't know. I'm, My one hope, which I don't know if this is realistic, is that maybe because they knew the reunion would be airing after the sentencing that they felt like they could speak a little more freely. That's what everyone's hoping. We'll see.

We'll see. To be continued. Hashtag Gentencing. Literally, what you've done so many genius branding moments. You know, I'm obsessed with your social, both your personal and pro. And I just think Gentensing is one. of the funniest things that I have heard of Risa and I will absolutely be referencing that repeatedly ad nauseum on social IRL. It's so funny. Amazing. Thank you. And thank you for,

thank you for coming. First guest in the studio of 2020. We're, you know, kicking. I was going to say christening, but I'm like, are we not like naming anything? I don't know. I don't know about christening. That's a triggering as a Housewives fan. I'm into it. Well, remind everyone you have your show tonight where can they buy tickets if they want last minute. Tickets are available and you can also get replay tickets. So if you're not able to join us live, you get up to a week to watch. And they're 15 bucks available at moment.com slash Andy's Girls. Moment.com slash Andy's girls. I'll be joined by Emily D. Baker and Ryan Bailey for AG Live. And I'm so excited to do an online show because I feel like all of the AGs all over the place get to participate, which is really. exciting. And you can listen to episodes of Andy's Girls wherever you listen to episodes of your favorite podcast, like mention it all. It's a pod all about the psychology behind the Real Housewives. And I'm on social on IG at Dame Galley. Amazing. Thank you, Sarah. Always a pleasure. And thank you everyone for listening, kicking off the New Year's Strong. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow

the show wherever you listen. So you never miss an episode. We have some exciting things in the works coming up in 2023 so you won't want to miss it. Make sure you're following us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. You can follow me at Dylan Hafer. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mentioned at all is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousmaqat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico, social media by Dylan Hafer, guest booking by Dylan Hafer and Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. All pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the The world premiere of the Monopoly, Big Board Buckslot Machine by Aristocrat Gaming,

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