Mention It All - The Exorcism of RHOC Ft. Sarah Galli

Episode Date: August 24, 2023

On today’s episode, Andy’s Girls host Sarah Galli returns to the studio for a recap of RHOC’s explosive return. The fourth wall is crumbling, as is Shannon’s mental state, and we’re here to pick up the delicious pieces. Earlier, Dylan and Sarah discuss an amusing bit of news about Rachel Uchitel, and ponder the vision for Rachel Leviss’ purported new podcast project. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope.

It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Betches Media presents. Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer.

We're going to check me, both. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mentioned All podcast. I am Dylan Hafer, and I am so thrilled to be joined in the studio today by a returning friend and favorite guest of mine. You know her as the host of the Andy's Girls podcast. Please welcome back to the show, Sarah Galley. Oh, my God.

It's such a thrill to be back. You know, every time. that we record into a pod swap or a club. It's, it's so, I just deeply love it. Oh, we have matching tumblers. Sorry. Is your simple modern? No. Oh, we don't. I, this has changed my life. Like, not having, I usually use like cheap swag, which shout out to receiving free merchandise, always a fave. But it was the first time I ever bought like an adult tumbler. Shut the fuck up. And it's like a big deal. It's phenomenal. It keeps things hot and cold. I'm happy for you. It's really a dream moment.

I am so thrilled of it. Are you one of those people where you went to like a Broadway show in 2016 and got a glass of wine and you still have the like souvenir cup in your cupboard? Depends on the show. I cracked the Spring Awakening on, which is like very upsetting to me. But I don't drink it. I don't drink a lot. So I would always get a diet Coke.

I would get a $30 diet Coke depending on the show if I really wanted the plastic. The like sippy cup that they give you. But the problem is a lot of those theaters have caught on to us and the idea that like we get it from the show. And now they just do, a lot of them just have like their dumb theater cup and it's not an identifier of the show, which who wants that? I really feel strongly about that. That it's like if you're charging me $18 for five ounces of pina grigio, it should be coming in, I want like, I want the some like it hot Memorial Cup. Yeah. I don't want like Schubert Theater Organization cup.

Yes. And I did go to when I went to Candy's show. the name of which I just forgot, but was great. The piano lesson. I went with a friend of mine and my friend, like, ordered a glass of wine. And they were like, okay, it's like $35 because they only do quote unquote doubles, which is essentially a glass. They really screw you.

Because they're like, well, it's eight ounces of wine. And I'm like, right, that's a cup. That's a cup. No, and they don't give a single glass. At least not for the people who like come to you in your seat where it's like, are we at a baseball game or something? Like, what is even happening? Theater.

Etiquette. I went to see Wicked for my birthday. Like, I just treated myself and went alone. Who was your birthday? May. But I bought like... Happy birthday. Okay.

I think I got it. I remembered it. What happened? I bought like a good ticket. And I was like, oh, this, I'm like taking my... I love going to the theater alone. I mean... They have like frozen drinks at Wicked.

Like, I think they have like a green one and a pink one maybe. Are they good or terror? I feel like they would probably be terrible. I don't know because I thought I was going to get one. And then first of all, the line was like wrapped around the fucking stairs. And also, it's like, $30. And I don't do it. I'm like, I don't actually want the like,

no, you want the, thrillifying green cocktail that bad. How was, do you know, I've never seen, I've never had an interest in going to Wicked, including when like friends were in it.

I just, for whatever reason. I also haven't seen Ham, I didn't really have, I haven't seen Hamilton. Trigger warning. I really didn't care about Hamilton. So it's like,

I don't. Wicked is, Wicked is really good. Do I have to go? I hadn't seen it in like 10 years. And then I saw it last year. And then I saw it again this year. And I'm like,

no, it's really fucking good. Really? It's a lot of fun. God, there's some good show. I was upset that I missed just for us because I waited until it's typical. Like, I usually wait until the day before a show closes. And I'm like, oh, my God, I have to go.

And then I can't go. And then there's like one ticket that's $190. Yeah, they were like hundreds of dollars the last week. Candy's coming back to Broadway in the spring with the Wizz revival. She's producing it. She really wants that EGOT and God bless her. I think she could get it. The Oscar is going to be tough for her.

her because I don't know that she has the financial resources to produce and like to receive the Oscar if she produces. I don't know that it would come to her for acting. And I feel like honestly, producing might be more attainable than songwriting for the Oscar. Like, because I think the songwriting thing is so political too to get in a specific movie and the tone being a perfect match. But she's going to go for it. She might just have an, wait, Emmy, Grammy. She might have an EGT. I don't know that she's going to get the Oscar, but I can see her getting everything else. She's nominated for an Emmy this year for like a regional Emmy,

but it counts. It counts. So we count a regional EGOT. Yeah, she like, she produced some like music. Who cares? Cultural show. Yeah.

Literally, I don't even think she had like posted about it until she got nominated for an Emmy for it. I'm like, that's the way to do it. Move in silence. Like, and I also think like if we have our first EGah house, first and last by the way,

EGOT houseways, do you know that would, I would just like lose my mind. I still can't believe there are certain people who are housewives. Because they're so, like, I still cannot believe I'm in denial that Garcelbovet is a housewife because she's such a successful actor. You meant like on the other end of the scale. I thought you were going to be like, Katrina. No.

I mean, speaking of Gina, we're going to talk about OC. Oh, it's such a good episode. Such a good episode. Difficult. Before we do, this pop, this was, again, this was the first thing I saw when I opened my eyes this morning because, because, because. I don't value my mental sanctity, I open, I open my eyes and then I reach for my phone and I open the app formerly known as Twitter, now X. X marks the spot.

Literally the first thing I see is this page six article about Rachel Yucatel telling a story of back in the day when she was like a bottle service girl that P.K. was her best customer in Vegas. And this, the only reason that this like clicked in my brain was because I invoked Rachel Yucatel's name on this very podcast three days ago because I was saying that she should be the first guest on Rachel Levis's purported mistress podcast. You know what's going to be? I'm like, what's in the universe that now Rachel Yucatel is talking about PK?

Wait, you know what? That's a really good point though, sidebaring from the PKK of it all. is like trying to figure out the direction that Rachel is going to go in because like, are you going to talk to therapists about cheating and about processing or the trauma of like going viral and social and vilified? Or are you going to talk about like, are you going to go the route of like famous lovers? She specifically mentioned having experts on, which I guess technically could be both. Rachel? Yeah, you could tell as an expert. You could do a whole like summer of Tiger Woods mini series on that podcast and just have like mistress after. mistress after mistress.

What was the name of that limited document? Was it called Tiger? No, it wasn't. It was something else. It was so good. He, it was set. There was that one girl who was like really good friends with him and then like he became whatever and they lost contact that made me kind of sad.

It was a really good. I forget it was for ESPN or Netflix. It's just called Tiger. It's on HBO. Which you could tell was on. Yes. Substantially. It was really good.

It was really good. That's our, that's our non-Bravo streaming recommendation is the HBO Tiger Woods documentary from. 2021. I remember when that was coming out because we were both very into it, I think. Yeah, because you know, I love narrative storytelling. So I don't watch or understand any sport, but I love sports-based docu-series. I love. I'm into it now. I'm into drive to survive. I'm into break point. I'm into full swing. I'm into, I talked to one of the golfers on the PJ tour who has profiled in the show and the executive producer for a piece I wrote for The Daily Beast.

I was very into, I'm not, not, I was not very into the piece, but the show itself. This is good. Netflix just commissioned another show in that kind of like series about sprinting, running, like track. Yeah, that they're going to, I think they're in the world championships is happening right now. And I think they're like filming. Well, there is also the newest show, the quarterback, which I am not into. I don't think it's interesting or engaging at all. So I wouldn't recommend it.

I think the Manning's like produce. I might be why. I don't know. But, you know, Hard Knocks is really the ultimate. if anybody's interested in football narrative storytelling without needing to know literally anything about football and HBO. I'm going to talk about sports journalism a lot on this podcast, but it is, you know, it's not sports journalism, entertainment. Sports TV. Sports TV. Yeah. I think that there's a through line, or at least there are a lot of sports related storytelling is attempting to find a throughline that has been well established when it comes to like women-focused reality TV. So I think the conversation around the difference in how athletes or. professional sports folk are perceived and celebrated, especially for sharing vulnerability in ways

that women are often mocked for is definitely interesting, like the gendered perspective. But anyway, sports and stuff. You know what also is feeling like a sport is enjoying the season of Real Houseways of Orange County because I'm cheering at the TV. I'm hooting and hollering. I'm head and hands, you know, crying almost. your girl Shannon is...

Gone through it. Shannon is having a tough time. Is she? I didn't know. I didn't realize. I feel like Shannon is clearly... I mean, obviously, a lot is going on with her relationship.

And she... It's kind of wild to watch her in real time grappling with the reality of the relationship and what she wants people to think about. her relationship and what she's told people about her relationship and maybe forgotten if she was maybe not sober when that happened and then what's being brought onto the show and who knows what and who's talking to who about what like there is a real you know war in Shannon's mind right now about the status of this relationship and how it's being perceived and it's kind of fascinating to watch

well there's the reality TV of it all which is obviously a huge part of her concern and of this phenomenal breaking of the fourth wall. The case repeatedly happening where she just... This can't be in the camera. It can't be in it. Like she's thinking that like a little man's going to jump out with film and scurry away. She's going to like give the camera an exorcist. I think she did.

Get out. I mean, she really, somebody's head turned. But, um... Shannon's demons are in the camera. They're in the camera and other places as well. The difficulty I think for Shan is like putting aside the element of you better not fucking talk about this on. the show because I don't want it to be a part of the narrative of which she has literally no

control, but also the fact of like, what does Shannon, how does Shannon view friendship? When Shannon is sharing something that might be upsetting or concerning or confusing or inspire curiosity for more information, is she approaching friendships with women as like, you are a vessel for information. I'm just going to say things to you and you should not respond? Or is she looking for a back and forth? Because if you're saying that you're fighting and it's like normal fights that paralyze you, a friend is going to hear that information and likely express concern unless that friend is Tamara and she's more interested in like dragging Heather to hell. Like I would think most friends like Emily, like Heather and to a weird extent

almost Gina, we don't really want to praise, but here we are, are at least responding to the information she's sharing as I would hope a friend would with like concern. And I don't know if Shannon understands that on top of the like reality TV of it all, it's not a storyline, it's not a storyline. It's like, okay, also, but when you talk to your friends, regardless of whether or not you're intoxicated, is there an awareness that a good friend is going to care what you're saying. Right. And also that that is, even if you have a conversation in the moment, if you're telling them something that is concerning or troubling or just, you know, something that you're going through dealing with, they're going to, a good friend is going to follow up on that and be like, hey, last time we talked, you seemed really stressed out about this thing that was happening. How's it going? Like, are you still dealing with that? Are you feeling better about it? Like, that's what a friendship is. It's not just like, oh, that was that was one conversation and we're never going to talk about it again because like if you if you're going through it, I want to make sure that it's that you're doing okay. And she seems to have this weird like, I mean, first of all, she clearly doesn't remember some of these conversations that have happened. Like literally. And the fact that so when, so Heather goes to see Shannon as she's setting up for her, um, taco, Taco day party. Fiesta. Taco day fiesta. Excuse me. And, you know, so, you know, Heather is denying that she talked about Shannon's

relationship. Shannon flips out again about her alluding to these like big bad things in her relationship. But in the confessional, we see Heather, Gina, Emily, and Tamara all saying that Shannon gets drunk and tells people things. Like this is something that almost everyone in the cast has clearly experienced with Shannon. And so I also think that the idea of telling people things that go in the vault and they should never be talking about it, it's like if all of these women know that Shannon is doing this? Like, it's not privileged information if she's told five people in the cast.

Like, they, I feel like you're allowed to talk about that among yourselves. Yeah, I feel like the privilege information is the crossing of that is letting Shannon know so that she's aware of what she has told several people. Like, that's the, that's like the privilege. But like, confidentially, Shannon, like, you don't remember this, but this thing happened.

Like, you told us over and over again. So if we're pretending that this is a big, dark secret, like obviously you have made it a secret from yourself. So maybe some of the shock of this is with Shannon recognizing or trying not to recognize that she has talked about sensitive aspects of her relationship with John, which she's now trying to normalize Angira with that fucking dinner, which I was like, babe, if Ryan is speaking up for you and making jokes, like, we're in trouble territory. But when Heather goes to see her, we also get a reveal of something that I was new

information at least to me. Oh my God. That so one of Shannon's issues with people talking about her relationship is that she's repeatedly said that John is a private person and that he doesn't want any of this stuff to be talked about on the show. And Heather basically says he's not a private person. That's bullshit because you've called me and told told me stuff about how he wants to be in the limelight. Yeah. And that is like, that's a big difference because if I would almost, I would. I would. more understand if Shannon truly was like he really doesn't, he just wants to keep things personal. I think the worst part of this is in thinking, because I gasped when Heather said that.

I was like, oh, my God, oh, Shan. That was a real. That was a shocking reveal to me genuinely. I was like, because the thing is, then I started thinking about the ways that Shannon has talked about John. And I'm like, oh, I think she's conflating or confusing or being very specific and strategic in saying he's interested in privacy when what he wants is. control. And babe, if you want control over your narrative on reality TV, you should run so far

fucking away from Bravo because that's not the place. The core idea of Bravo is revealing some sort of inner complicated truth that's likely not going to show you in the best light. I mean, BCC Brooks. So it's like, know, know thyself or at least thy franchise because yikes. Yikes. And I do believe it. But then I'm like, what, but why does he, he doesn't seem like anything, let alone someone who wants to be on TV. Like, I actually think he seems closer to someone who doesn't understand this universe and does not want to be a part of it. Right. That's why the limelight comment was so surprising to me.

Because I'm like, he's not like a, he doesn't seem like a show pony kind of guy. He really, not like Ryan, not like Brooks. He shows up to film, which is nice for Shannon. But I think you're right about the idea that the kind of the, agreement of the show is that you're going to kind of look like shit look like shit and I think but the the other layer of that is that if you are trying to bring something maybe not fully truthful to the camera like a a story that you've come up with you have to keep it tight to a certain extent and you can't be getting drunk and calling everyone and telling them the real version of events and then

the next time you see them when you're on camera be like I don't know what you're talking about my relationship is fine. Because like if the relationship, if your story on the show is that the relationship is fine, then you probably shouldn't be telling anyone in the cast that that's not the full truth. Except that we watch her to do that. I mean, I want her to. But it's the like, poor sweet Shannon is like, what did I say? But also like, we're fine. Like these are normal things that we fight about. And when we fight and I like stop breathing because I'm so incapacitated from the stress of this. And I'm so incapacitated from the stress of this because this is obviously a toxic relationship. Like that's super normal. And I just, I think the problem here is that because we know they're hanging out again, Shannon is going to do

her level best to normalize a situation that is at best extremely complicated and does appear to just not be a great fit for either of them. And when you try to make this thing fit, and it's complicated not just by people's perception, but by the fact that their perception is shaped by what you're sharing with them, that's going to be really difficult because Shannon is trying to argue with herself. Yeah. Study and play.

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Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company. So at the beginning of the episode, Gina is not going to the Taco Fiesta. After this little... The best running theme of the episode is how many people don't show up. After this little drive-by, Heather is not going to the Taco Fiesta. And next up, next up, it's Emily's. turn to FaceTime Shannon. And, you know, of course, Shannon's mad at Emily about talking to people about her

relationship and, you know, making it seem like she's acting as if her relationship is perfect. Emily says that, you know, Shannon talks to everyone, so this is not really her problem. This back and forth, I wrote down the quotes because it just made me, it made me laugh the way it was said. Emily says, you are Jekyll and Hyde, and I'm tired of it. And Shannon says, that's a very disappointing and hurtful statement that you're making. Poor Shannon.

This is the thing. You know I hashtag stand for Shan. And this is one of the reasons why I love Shan so much. That's a very disappointing and hurtful statement that you're making. She's so complicated. But she thinks she's not. And that to me is exciting TV. She's like, all I want to do is be fun and drink tequila.

And it's like, oh, babe, there's a lot going on there. But so, it takes Emily like four tries to hang up the face time, which was so funny. She's throwing her phone on the table. She's throwing her phone on the table and you can still hear Shannon be like, Emily, Emily. But so now Emily is not going to the Taco Fiesta. She and Gina are going to party it up for the Innocence Project instead, which love, you know, love to hear. That was a great event.

Yeah, great event. And I loved that the shopping trip with the woman who, who had been exonerated in her talking about the fact that she wasn't able. I not loved it. I mean, I appreciated the fact that this was shown and is a big part of Emily's storytelling because I don't know that we have discussed the complicated dynamics of a person being exonerated and then trying to return back to their life and finding that people won't allow them. That to me is devastating and important to talk about.

Yeah, I love getting, I mean, obviously. it's like more fun to talk about like you know shannon having a meltdown on face time but like I think the balance of that is great and I'm glad that we got to see that kind of throughout the episode too yeah and I think just Emily I'm so obsessed with Emily I think it started maybe last season I honestly forget I'm just so into her and then when she's like at the end of the episode just like crying to shannon about how like she wants them to be friends again I just was overwhelmed I love I love her so much As she's ordered a side loaf of bread along with her burger. Which, that's server?

It's like, sweetie, like she was joking when she said she wanted to have all the bread. And then she has to change. I would be sort of upset. I would do exactly what Emily did, which is like, yeah, let's change it to sourdough. But she didn't mean that. She was joking. She probably wanted the bun. Well, no, she got the bun on the burger and then she got a loaf of bread.

And I know that because Shannon took a piece of the loaf of bread. Oh, I missed that part. Sorry. I was like, I was just kind of like trying to make my way through. I actually really was thinking about the complicated dynamics with the sourdough in the bun. I didn't realize that she had also received the bun. Sometimes we fixated on these things. But I also love when she and Shannon are talking.

And Shannon's like, well, how would you feel if I said that you had fights? And Emily's like, me and Shane fight all the time. This is the problem for Shannon. She's like, what if I said that you have issues in your marriage? And it's like, have you met Emily the first several seasons? She's been on the show. The whole dynamic was like, is her marriage going? to survive. So when you're saying to someone who's led with marital complications and sometimes

some issues first and be like, well, what if I did the thing that you've already done for dozens of episodes? It's like, babe. The only person in this cast that really doesn't have a resume in terms of marital troubles is Heather. And like that's, you know, it's, I guess it's going to come up next week. But like in terms of Shannon kind of feeling like it's unfair for her stuff to be talked about on camera. It's like Gina's been through the mill Tamara. Tamara got divorced on camera. Simon.

You know, like even I mean, Taylor Armstrong, holy fuck. Like, every... I mean, it's Jen's first season and we spent the first eight episodes talking about her whatever it is. Situationhip. Yeah. Shannon is not above

this in terms of a storyline but it is like it is just funny to watch her kind of like decompose almost. And, like the way that she's... That's not the word. No, but it's like she storms out of a scene with Heather. She breaks the fourth wall again with Emily.

Yeah, maybe deconstruct or not deconstruct. To fall apart. Like... Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I think the thing for Shannon that she's confused by or upset by is the fact that she probably feels like she's already given her pound of flesh because of what she experienced

and navigating, trying to do. defend David and then seeing that on camera fall apart. And I feel like for Shannon, she is probably thinking, understandably, I deserve my happy ending. But what happens if people also want that for you, you just haven't chosen right? Like this is the problem of for Shannon is like she's thinking, I've already done this. So we should be focusing on my happy relationship. And it's like, poor sweet Chan. Yeah. My darling, my dear, I don't know that that's possible because of the man you've chosen to attempt to, you know, exonerate. Yeah.

I also think so she breaks the fourth wall a few times in this episode. But after the phone call with Emily, she breaks it in a way that I think is probably more negatively seen from production. Because so she she finds out that now Emily is going to be the third person not coming to the taco fiesta. And then she's telling the producers basically that she's done with this party and that they can just throw it without her and that this is not what she signed up for. And it's kind of like revealing that this is not an event that she particularly cares about. It's just like the event that they decided she would host this episode.

And I feel like that's kind of, it's one thing to say like, get the camera out of my face. But for her to be like, throw the fucking taco party without me. I don't care. Yeah, that's that you, that's exactly right. And she's crossing the line into the thing of like, I'm playing a part in this. Right. And like, I don't want to, I don't want to go by your script. Right.

Like, she didn't buy any of these decorations for the table. She didn't book the venue. Like, this is not her thing. It's like production's thing that she's like, she put her name down for hosting Taco Party on episode 10. And also she doesn't want to be identified with it. Like, the way that she probably did prior of like, I'm hosting this thing. it's going to be really fun.

Now she's like, no, no, no, I'm not going to host this thing and be identified as the person who can't manage to get six people to show up. I mean, that's tough. When the camera's, like, focusing on the fact that, like, literally six people aren't there, chef's kiss. It was sort of iconic. Well, sorry. But it's also wild to me after they hang up the FaceTime, and Emily is, like, openly just talking to the producers, too. Like, you can tell her level of frustration is such that she's just like, she, needs to vent to somebody.

And I love that they kept it in because when she's like, you're on a fucking reality show, talk about it. If it's normal relationship, things like, I feel like that that inner monologue, I'm glad we got to hear it. And like the fact that it's directed at somebody holding a camera, it's like works for me. I mean, this is the, this is the thing when you, when you love Shannon is this, this is the unfortunate reality is like, this is the complicated dynamic that I like love to watch. I want her to do well, but the reality is like, does she have capacity to?

Does she want to do the things that would be required for her to be well? Yeah. I think, I don't think they've taped their reunion yet. And I'm, hell no. I'm very curious to see kind of what the tone of Shannon is at the reunion. Because I, obviously, the relationship ended, but she and John are still something. They circle back to each other, yeah, after several months. And so I don't think that she is going to be in any kind of, oh, yeah, I was being so crazy.

My relationship sucked. Like, fuck him. Like, I don't think that's going to be her energy at the reunion. And I almost wish it would be because I think then it would be a little bit easier for her to kind of like wash her hands of whatever that was. Yeah. And move forward. but I have a feeling that we're going to get energy where it's like she's going to be kind of scorched earth with like Gina and Emily and Heather because they were the ones trying to tear down her relationship that ended up tearing itself down anyway and like it sucks because I'm like I would love for her to just like move forward but I can't see that being the she holds on way past the point of hopefully someone ideally walking away and she's just going to level up her defensiveness, which is not going to go well for her and try to shift the blame

onto members of her cast for, I mean, like, maybe for inspiring the breakup or maybe just more generally, quote unquote, trying to make him look bad. And that is going to be very difficult for her because not only do I think she's incorrect, but just based on like the information, not about how she feels, which is also complicated. but the fact that she's now put herself into a position where because she wants to be with this man, even though she's telling us it's very casual. I don't know that Shannon, anything can ever be casual with Shannon, that she's going to have to defend this man who,

which requires, I think, pushing people against the wall to some extent that like, I don't think people are going to keep her confidences as closely as they may have so far this season. Like I think Heather's going to say some shit potentially if Shannon really pushes her. And that's going to be tough for Shannon. I don't know that she's equipped for whatever additional information may be in store. Right. And I mean, when you, the word arsenal just popped into my mind a la Margaret Joseph.

And if you think about it, it's like if Margaret has an arsenal about everyone, in this cast, it's more like everyone has an arsenal about Shannon specifically because Shannon has, you know, made drunk phone calls to all of them. So it's like if it feels like the floodgates are open, it's, there could be a lot of stuff coming out of there from all angles. And it's, I don't know, if I were her, I think I would tread a little more lightly. Have you ever rearranged your furniture and discovered the carpet underneath looks brand new while the rest of it looks, well, not so new? It's time for a carpet upgrade. At the Home Depot, we have stylish choices at simple prices from all the top brands. Best of all, we can install it for.

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Her friend Lisa is this like, I don't know who she is or where she came from, but I love when Tamara and Eddie arrive and she's like, glad you guys are here to support our friend with like the sidiest side eye you've ever seen. And it's like, oh, this is this is not going to go well. And when Shannon at the dinner is bringing up Gina's DUI situation. And this, what is it, child protective? Child protective. I own called CPA. CPS.

So this is basically spurred by Taylor being like, so what's up with all of this? because... And did you help her? Well, but she says, like, I'm trying to figure out in this group, like, who I can trust because there's all this stuff about people theoretically talking about your relationship. And, like, if I'm ever going to have, like, a vault with any of you, what's the T? And Tamara's like, well, look who's here. Look who's not.

And this is when Shannon kind of... She basically feels betrayed by Gina because she was so helpful to Gina when she was going through this situation. And specifically, she says, that if she hadn't covered for Gina or helped her or whatever, that it easily could have been a situation where her kids were taken away, pretty much. And it's tough.

It's a tough, that's a tough thing to say. Even if that were pretty much true, that would be a really tough thing to say about somebody years later because you're mad that maybe they were talking shit about your relationship. And Jen immediately clocks that. And like, she's like, I'm appalled to hear Shannon just like spouting this stuff about somebody that I don't even know that well. Yeah, I think it really stems from the fact that not to excuse it, but the fact that Gina was like you did the like sort of the bare minimum in helping me.

And the fact that Gina has felt upset about the ways that Shannon has in Gina's eyes taken too much credit for trying to support her. Meanwhile, we're getting information. you know, the lawyer that she introduced her to or whomever, you know, called the DA or whatever at 10 o'clock at night. Like, it wasn't just making a phone call. It was genuinely seemingly really trying to help Gina. Flip side of that is like, how are you helping her now? Even if you guys are fighting and referencing this information, are you doing more harm than good, especially if the good is really just defending your role and trying to help her. And at a certain point, if this person is not acknowledging how helpful you were, I know this is against the core value of housewives, but like, maybe you've just got to let it go. Because if you know that you help them and there's something about this very sensitive situation

and the way that they view you, maybe the way that they blame you for helping them, a la Luanne and Bethany where there was like a, there was a certain level of sarcasm and and seemingly almost frustration that Lou had the following season after Bethany stepped in behind the scenes and helped her go to rehab and get treatment. and whatever else where she seemed to be annoyed, I think, about the level of insight that Bethany had in her life. And I get it. I think there's like a sort of a smaller, different version, a softer version of that with what we're seeing between Gina and Shan. Right. And that even if you don't really mean it, like any sort of implication that it's like, well, if I hadn't stepped in, her kids wouldn't be there.

Like, it's not, it's just, it's, even if there's truth in it, it's not a great thing to just toss out. Actually, I like Jen and Gina's little side friendship that I feel like we're seeing a little bit because they went shopping before. And Gina was kind of giving Jen some information. And then after this event, we see Gina going to Jen's house. And now Jen is like sort of returning the favor and telling her what happened. And I mean, Gina obviously is upset by this. I think rightly so. And we see in the preview for next week that Gina confronts Jen and she's like, I would never say that.

And it's like, oh, babe, we're doing it again. This was the whole when we watched the mid-season trailer and there was some confusion over who was getting yelled at for what and like it couldn't be Heather for all of this. I think it's going to be a difficult second half of the season for Shannon and obviously for Heather. And the Heather of it all, I mean, I find myself agreeing with her or at least not understanding the level of like hot that's being directed her way. I think it's absolutely out of balance. and maybe or maybe I'm like not getting it, but the ways that Shannon and Tamara and whomever else are trying to say that Heather's really being extremely sneaky

behind the scenes about Shannon and John, I'm just like genuinely not seeing it. Like am I? No. I'm confused by it. I think you're right that whatever is happening overall. Yeah. We're not,

it's not being communicated onto the show in a way. that it felt like the last couple weeks when Shannon has been getting an inkling, you know, the first time was at that lunch with Vicky where she like kind of got wind that Heather had been talking. We've heard about it a few times now, but like Heather has not been caught red handed. There's no footage we've seen. There's no hot mic. Like I can believe that maybe there was something that happened.

But in terms of the show that we're being presented with, there's no evidence. And so I think with with Shannon, it's a little bit like clearly there's a narrative happening kind of with most of the women in this group about your relationship. And it seems like maybe her, her anger would be better spent like figuring out her communication issues with the group and like her relationship and all of this rather than just like demonizing Heather for apparently, you know, saying something awful or insinuating something horrible.

It's going to be a really tough reunion for sham. If you're throwing stones at Heather, it's hard to reach up to that Roberto Kavali penthouse. Which, by the way, total sidebar. But like, I mean, an apologies for people who really die for extremely high price animal print. But Roberto Kavali is the thing. Like, why do we care so much that it's Roberto Kavali?

Heather keeps talking about it in a way where I'm like, who gives a shit about Roberta? It just feels kind of dated. Well, it was the first house he did in North America. He designed some of the furniture, which I also don't like. I do agree. I think there are, it's obviously like a beautiful canvas. It's a little dated.

And it's like a, it's like a billion dollar two bedroom. Me from my lowly tax bracket. I mean, yeah, let's, I mean. I'm throwing stones. I definitely can't reach. But, you know, it needs a little, I would say it needs a judge. The closet is, the closet feels like I'm stepping into a mood. Like I'm being called into like the Star Wars universe.

Like it's all, that's what I assume the Star Wars universe is like, it's just like all lights coming down to me. It feels like you're, you're like going almost into like some sort of like time machine theme movie. It was just like bright, haunting beautiful light. I could have, I would like to stay in that sort of closet area forever. But related to the rest, I'm like, I don't give a shit about a vertical. Does Heather wear, she might, but she's, she might. but she seems more of like a YSL kind of gal. I feel like she likes like a Dulce cocktail dress kind of vibe.

Can you imagine if Dolce and Gabana designed a apartment? Do you know how problematic that apartment would be? And Sutton Strack would be sitting right there. She would own it. I'm going to own the building by now. Are you kidding? It's in a galaxy far far away known as Century City. Well, I'm excited for the rest of the season.

I'm really loving it. And I'm glad that we got to chat about it today. Can you tell everyone where they listen to your podcast and everything? Yes. Well, I just have to say, you know how obsessed I am with you and with talking about Bravo with you. And you were just on Andy Scrolls. And I got so many messages from people about just an appreciation for the energy that

we have with each other. Because I think we can be sassy, but I think we also are pretty active listeners, which I think is helpful. So I just really appreciate our conversation and you having me back because I genuinely love it. I love sitting down with you and recording. I think it's, it's for me, just selfishly, it's a lot of fun. Me too. And also, we didn't have an episode of OC last week.

So I felt like when we talked on your podcast. Bethany in New York. Right. Like we didn't. O.C was kind of like on pause a little bit and like, we're turning to the light. Oh, we're fucking back. Yeah, we're 100% back. And speaking of being back, you can listen to that episode of Andy's Girls by listening to

Andy's Girls wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. It's a pod all about the psychology behind Housewives and more. We consider it a mix of C-SPAN. And I only fix my life. And there's also a bonus episode each week about non-housewives TV psychology. And you can follow me on Instagram and allegedly threads at Dane Galley. Not allegedly threads. So bad at it.

So bad at it. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you everyone for listening. Don't forget to rate review and follow the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mention It All is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca.

Sousa Sousmakat. Editing by Jorge Morales Picoe. Social media by Dylan Hafer. Guest booking by Dylan Hafer and Allie Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. All. Pay off your home. Travel for life.

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