Mention It All - The Real Bots of Beverly Hills Ft. Amanda Duberman

Episode Date: August 25, 2022

There’s no new RHOBH this week, but Amanda Duberman joins Dylan for a complete breakdown of the social media controversy surrounding the franchise. They discuss why Diana’s misguided strategy all season has led us here, and why Bravo has a bigger responsibility than just telling fans to calm down. Later, they dig into Scheana and Brock’s wedding, and new RHONY casting reports. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Home Depot.com slash price match for details. Betches Media presents. Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All. A Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With Dylan Hafer. We'll go check me, both.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I'm Dylan Hafer, and today I am joined by a favorite co-worker of mine, a fellow Betch's employee, Betches, podcaster. Please welcome back to the podcast, Amanda Doberman. Hey, Amanda. Hello, hello. Gosh, I just, this podcast is the best because I don't have to open. an outline and guide the conversation.

And you don't have to talk about, you know, like what's happening in the Republican Party or like anything too bleak except for, I guess today we kind of do have some. I know. I know. I really, really what I would have given to be here, to be here during homeless, not toothless week. I know. Homeless, not toothless.

It was only like a... Weeks. You know, Kathy just last week was saying she's worked with the homeless. and the toothless. And the fact that that was only seven days ago, and now not only do we not have a new episode of Beverly Hills to talk about, but we have some pretty disturbing off-camera developments to talk about. It's like they really didn't want to give us a week off.

So instead of an episode, we're talking about the complete meltdown of the Beverly Hills franchise on social media, which has really been a sight to behold. Nothing short of a meltdown of the franchise indeed. It's crazy. It is kind of wild because going back even to the first half of this season, very quickly, people were not feeling Ms. Diana Jenkins. And people were not a fan, kind of the more we saw of her, I think the more sort of off she seemed, you know, some of the things she would say, some of her actions, the licking. the licking of the lips. It's like the more we kind of like dug into getting a vibe off of her.

It's like, I don't, I don't love that. Okay, that was a weird thing to say. Okay. I don't like that either. And, you know, her social media, the posse is somewhat racist, these stuff on social media. It's like there was just kind of like Pandora's box of reasons not to be viving with Diana. and then this week it sort of has spiraled into a different place. Dirty Diana indeed.

I mean, I feel like we kept saying like, we kept feeling like at first it was like we want to see a little bit more. We want her to give a little bit more. And then she would and I hated everything she was giving. Hated it. Yeah. But this is,

I certainly didn't expect something, what she's being accused of now. And what it sure looks like is a direct line of her involvement. But I'll let you kind of detail that. It is always fun. when there's somebody. And it's like, oh, like, she has so much potential. Like, I just want her to open up.

Or like, I want to see, like, what she's like in her, like, natural habitat. And then they show you one time and you're like, oh, God. No, no. Put it back. Put it back in the box. Right. That's kind of like how I felt with, like, Kathy Hilton when they showed me that she, like, eats TV dinners in front of her TV.

That didn't, that didn't endear her to me. That sort of made me feel like, well, there's a darkness here. And that's what Diana has been giving. Even thinking about like last season on Salt Lake when Jenny, when was there, and it was kind of like, oh, she seems interesting. Like what's underneath there? And it's like, what's underneath there is hating black people. It's like, okay, never mind, never mind, never mind. Fire it.

Exactly. Exactly. It's always that. Why is that always what they're hiding? Don't we love to live in this time and place? But I'm going to set the scene. I'm going to take us back just a few short days to, I believe. Monday of this week. Diana, Diana Jenkins posts on Instagram, and it is a screenshot of a group

text that we are seeing. And Diana in the group text, it's from Sunday, November 21st of last year. So this is while they're filming, Diana sends this text, presumably to the cast. Doctors are putting me on bed rest to stop bleeding this trip and flying and drinking and burning my candle both ends after losing baby and all that blood 12 weeks ago, bleeding for eight eight weeks straight after miscarriage and four major surgeries that followed in the last few weeks to save my uterus was not very intelligent thing to do. This is after the Mexico trip. We already talked about it on the show. But then the text that really kind of set things off is right after that, she says, I usually wouldn't share this in group text because it makes me look like a whining bitch.

But Garcell, Garcel spelled without the E on the end, might think I am rude. So there it is. So that text happens. But wait, okay. Was there a precipitating event? that gave Diana the impression that Garcel was going to have an issue with that? I can't remember. I mean, not really. I mean, this is going back to like episode six of the season or something. I really feel at this point, like Garcel and Diana barely knew each other. But then-

That was my sense. In this Instagram post, it's a carousel. And the next slide, somebody had tweeted, they were like, Diana Jenkins Googling Garcel, and it was like Garcell spelled without the E on the end. Like, she had posted it. And Garcel responds to that tweet. just says, LOL,

not the misspelled version. And this is really what, you know, kind of pissed Diana off. And she,

so she posts this. And the Instagram caption is, hmm, my grammar and spelling might be off for sure. But bottom line is I lost my baby

at 18 week pregnancy and most violent way and nearly died in the process. And I am ridiculed for spelling someone's name.

Fascinating what, quote, fan favorite get away with. Go on trolls. Do your worst. Oh, wait, you already

did that. So, this is, is like a very weird. It's like a weird, the whole vibe is weird to start with. And it's like, okay, maybe it's not, you know, that nice for Garcel to be like laughing at a joke about her misspelling the name. We know that English is not Diana's first language and she has brought this up numerous times and said that people making fun of her accent and her English is kind of a trigger for her. That being said, I don't think anybody thinks that Garcel is like making light of

the fact or making fun of the fact that Diana had a miscarriage. Right. And so to immediately take it to that place and to suggest that it feels like a bad faith argument. You know, it's not the kind of thing where it's like, oh, yeah, obviously that's what Garcell meant. And Garcell said this on Twitter. She said, I would, you know, I've had a miscarriage myself.

Like, I would never, you know, make fun of another woman for that. Like, that's not what this is about. I just think, like, Diana doesn't seem to understand how this works. Like, she, like, her whole kind of argument this season against Garcell and Sutton has hinged on them kind of disrespecting her struggles with pregnancy loss. And it's like, I don't think that ever has actually been a compelling argument because they have it. Right. And I think that she keeps weaponizing her miscarriage. And here's the thing.

she could be doing so from a place of extreme hurt and trauma. And if she were to open up about that with the women, which she sort of like gestured at, but not really got into it. But I think she's, I hate when Housewives can't take any criticism. They can't get into it at all. And then she keeps replying with,

you can't be untouchable because you had, because you had this experience like a year. I just don't think that she's always bringing it up in good faith. And if she is, then then she, owes it to like her storyline and to like what she's participating in to really explain why she keeps reacting in that way. But like yeah, you can't you can't undermine every like critique of you with, but this experience also I have this. Like like Lisa Renna's been doing that a little bit too. But the different thing is that at least Lisa Renna kind of had that breakdown and she was like,

shit, I'm being, I'm really not being myself because of this. Yeah. And so Diana responds to another kind of like random Instagram comment. And she says, really, you are all actually okay with her mocking my spelling publicly from that message. Neither of them could find something else to bully me on, but my spelling, my accent, and my miscarriage. I am not surprised. They are fan favorites for a reason, right?

It's a fan base that's worrisome. And it's, so she's like leaning into this thing of Sutton and Garcel, bullying her based on her miscarriage and then saying that like, oh, I guess you all like that because they're fan favorites. Right. There's so much happening. There's so much happening, but, you know, this isn't even the worst part yet because then somewhere between this is all happening on Monday on social media and then between Monday and Tuesday,

Garcell's son, Jacks, who is one of the 14-year-old twins, his Instagram comment section, starts getting flooded with these comments that are just like so hateful. There are, you know, threats about him and his mom. and insults about him and his mom and there's racist stuff in there at one point somebody in folks like you know your neck would be getting kneeled on like just the kind of stuff that it's like

even if you were really not not enjoying Garcell on this season of Real House stories of Beverly Hills first of all why are you in the 14 year old son's comment section and not Garcells but these are just things that a you know normal okay person would not say to someone else.

And I mean, the comments are giving off bot vibes. Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of franchises with all black castes who have kids. And there have probably been like not, people maybe have swarmed them before, but not this is a different type of thing

that anyone's ever seen, which leads you to the bots. Yeah. Right. It's like the level of hatred, but also just the fact that it's being targeted, obviously at the sun. It's just, this is immediately kind of taken to a darker place than any kind of, you know,

backlash or negativity that is kind of maybe a little bit unfortunate, but is to be expected when you're on a show like this. And the fact that it was the sun, I think, is kind of what took this to another level so quickly and really made the fan base see this and be like, something needs to happen. This isn't okay. People have been calling for an investigation into, you know, these potentially bot comments and where they might have been coming from. And so Garsell posted a tweet on Tuesday and said, I'm usually a very strong woman. I've been raised to be strong. My life has taught me to be strong. But when it comes to my kids, it hurts. It's not okay. I've been in tears

all night. It's just a TV show people. Scream at your TV. Throw something at your TV, but leave our kids alone. And then this is when Lisa Rina jumps in. And I mean, Lisa Rina for all her shit-stirring and messiness this season was kind of the first one in the cast to respond to this in a meaningful way. She posts on her story, also on Tuesday, we're doing a TV show. We try to entertain you. Why can't you treat it like wrestling for God's sake? Love us, love to hate us, but leave the kids alone. What I was just sent about Garcel's son is disgusting and unacceptable. What I heard happened to Portia at Kyle Richards is disgusting and unacceptable. What you said and done to my own kids, disgusting.

The threats to Erica's son, and I'm sure all our other beautiful children, they didn't sign up for this. What are you doing? The kids, all of our kids should be off limits. So stop it now. Enough is enough. I mean, like, I have not been the biggest fan of Rina for the last year or two. But, I mean, for what it's worth, she did hop in pretty much right away to this when Diana

was like on vacation in Maui and not saying a damn thing. Yes. That is especially, and like, you know, Lisa Rana doesn't have a very high bar over that. especially noteworthy for Lisa Renna, who tends to wait to see what other people are doing and is very easily influenced. So I do give her credit for being the first person to jump in and actually like acting like a decades long friend to Garcel finally. Yeah. And it's one of those things where like I think a lot of the time when it comes to like drama on the show, Lisa Rina kind of takes the low road or isn't, you know, kind of supportive of who you would think she would be or who maybe she should be. But this is a situation where, I mean, they've all had it happen to their kids.

Her daughters have been involved in the show. And, you know, even just some of the things I see people say about Amelia specifically who's been really open with her eating disorder and then people having thoughts about that and her relationships and all of that stuff. It's like even just the stuff that I see kind of casual comments are not that nice. And so I can imagine some of the, you know, if you're like in the trenches of their DMs and their comments, I'm sure there are some things that are being said that are just, you know, repulsive.

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Garcel's spoken out about it. Lisa has spoken out about it. And then it kind of is this like 24-hour thing of like, what's going on here? Is there going to be some resolution? Are we going to find out where these comments are coming from? Is Bravo going to say anything? What's, you know, it's one of those things where because the comments were so bad and they were on the kids account, it's like,

we can't just this isn't just like it doesn't just blow over and I think for a lot of people this was kind of a moment where it's like this isn't fun this isn't what I this isn't what we sign up for as like housewives viewers and it's certainly not what the women are signing up for and I'm curious what you think so Bravo finally did post something last night which we can talk about in a minute but what are your thoughts about in a situation like this like Bravo's responsibility to the their talent and people that are, you know, on their network. I mean, I think they, when it's, when it's a person's kid, it seems, you're right, it just takes it to another level.

I mean, I'm sure there have been cases. When have they spoken up? I think they've spoken up against sort of like racist vitriol against cast members previously. Yeah. They posted, they love their, um, white text on a black background, little text card. In the past, we've gotten one when Cameron Westcott. and her family were being really awful to Tiffany Moon on the last season of Real Housewives of Dallas, which also felt, you know, a little bit delayed.

We got one about the Vanderpump Rules firings back in 2020. And then also I think there was a there was a below deck cast member who was fired after he posted an extremely racist meme. Those are the ones that come to mind off the top of my head. There might be one or two more. But in general, it's like they're pretty, they use this pretty sparingly. the last couple years, it's happened a handful of times. My first instinct is for Bravo to potentially consider if they should be more responsible in the airtime they give people's kids.

But Garcel is not somebody who has tried to use her kids for her storyline. My sense is when they have shown up in the very rare occasions, it's probably because they wanted to and they seem like they're having a good time. And then, you know, Erica snapped at them. So, you know, I definitely think that Bravo, there's like room to consider their responsibility there. But I just, it's hard because you can't, it really depends how these bots got there, right? I mean, I mean, I guess like, let's imagine what their responsibility is that this is just terrible fans, like being incredibly cruel. It's hard to imagine that because like, I don't think

that Garcel right now, and I am a white woman, it doesn't seem to me, I haven't seen any sort of complaints that she is getting a bad edit this season or a villain edit. But I just can't imagine. imagine people would be so, like, hate her so much that they would come after her son that way, which is why it's just so hard to believe that these are authentic comments. Because I would say, like, Bravo should really make sure it's not really watched its storyline around black women. And, you know, I mean, I think there was a lot of conversation. And Jackson said it himself around like the adultification of black men and women, at least to the end of a lot of black men's lives. And he pointed that out again here. Like, do people feel entitled to attack him because

he's a 14 year old? Like, it's just, it's so, because we don't know what the like sources or the motivation. I mean, has there been like, does Garsell have haters that would do this? Yeah. I mean, that is an interesting point that it's not, this was not tied to any moment on the show that really set people off. I mean, this happened mostly like Monday and Tuesday of this week. So like several days after the most recent episode aired, there's not a new episode this week. And it wasn't an episode where, you know, like Garcell was really saying something rude to Diana. And then there was some big fight. It does feel sort of detached from the narrative of the show in a way that makes it seem like there's no event that happened that would have incensed this many people to just go comment on Jacks's page. I mean, there shouldn't be any event period that would make people go do that.

But even if you were in that, like, weird, bad mindset of wanting to go harass someone's kid, it wasn't like, oh, Garcel was a bitch on this week's episode. So now I'm going to head to the comment section. And so I think that's part of the reason why it felt, I think that's why people had the instinct to sort of point the finger in Diana's direction because it was, it felt very. time specific to Garcel and Diana had sort of been going at it on social media, and Garcel was kind of being dismissive of Diana sort of, it felt like Diana was trying to start shit with her and, like, accuse her of bullying her based on her miscarriage. And Garcel was kind of not having it. She's like, look, like, I don't need to do this with you because, like, that's not what happened. If you're going to miss, you know, portray it in this wrong way, that's not what we're going to do.

And so I think that kind of timing felt specific. But also, you're right. Like, my first instinct is like putting responsibility on Bravo in terms of like how they're showing these, you know, women of color in mostly white shows or like how they're, you know, e-framing their storylines and editing them and, you know, kind of supporting and how they're treating those cast members. But like, Garcell has had a great season. And so it doesn't feel like, oh, wow, they've really been like showing her as this like horrible whatever. And so I think it is, it is tough. But so in their statement that they posted, I'll just read it. They said, we are shocked and appalled at the social comments directed at Garcell's son.

We urge our reviewers and social followers alike to refrain from targeting our cast and their families with harmful rhetoric. And so this statement, obviously, I think it's good that they said something. but it's very, it's only focused at fans and followers going, who they're saying have gone and, you know, harassed Garcell's son. And they're kind of not choosing to open up the idea that there might be some targeted attack. Totally. Which, and I think they should have said, we like, people have raised concerns about the source of these attacks and we take that really seriously and we're looking into it. And if Diana had like, if Diana didn't do this and she has half of brain, she would be like appalled. And she would be joining them and being like, of course this is not coming from me.

What can I do to show you that? Because these fans and followers to put my tin hat on have, you know, like three followers each and I'll have the same, you know, profile. These fans and followers all joined Instagram on like July 17th. So yeah, it's one of those things where I mean, Diana did repost this statement. It pretty much everyone in the cast did. And like even somehow I saw like Teresa posted about the situation and like Ramona shared this, which it's, I mean, that's nice. It's great. But like it's one of those things where for Bravo to kind of just post like they acknowledged it and they're like, well, obviously we don't want Garcel's son to be harassed.

It's like, right, obviously. I would be way more concerned if they were like, it's not that bad. But the thing is because they're in the position of kind of controlling all of this, you know, they created this mess essentially. None of us would be here. This podcast wouldn't exist without Bravo as like an entity. And so it seems like in this type of instance where it really smells like there's been some foul play beyond just fans being disgruntled. It feels like it should be their responsibility to actually like do the legwork. and get to the bottom of it.

Because that's the, I mean, that's the problem. When you're talking about somebody's kid getting harassed on social media, if there's something more kind of sinister at play than just people being like, you know, a mess, you need to get to the bottom of that. And you need to see what you can do to prevent that from happening in the future, from happening to other people's kids, to other people. I mean, this shouldn't be happening to adults either, like this type of targeted attack. And there should be consequences if it was instigated by.

I mean, a cast member, somebody close to a cast member. Right. So messy. Obviously, Bravo's not going to post. It's like, we think it seems like Diana Jenkins sent the box. Like, that's, I mean, this is a, like, billion dollar corporation. Like, they're not going to be, like, out here pointing fingers without the receipts to back it up. Totally.

But it does feel like this statement kind of, there's no action attached to it. It's just like, hey, guys, calm down. And it's like, no, there needs to be a process that's like, we're looking into this. I don't know what that means. I'm not like a, you know, tech wizard. Whatever, whatever like Elon Musk wants Twitter to look through the bots, it's like we need that to be at Garcell's Instagram. Right, right. No, exactly. Because what were they, what was their plan if this didn't stop or if this doesn't stop? Like to just leave Garcel and Jacks to deal with this to deal with this on their own. There was one part of her statement that kind of broke my heart where she was like, I'm usually a strong

woman, but it's like, no, no, no, babe. Like, you still are. This is, like, her strength, and she has been, like, so strong in dealing with this. So that part just sort of, like, broke my heart. And the other thing I keep thinking is that if these were just random racist, because, like we said, there is absolutely nothing that any character could do, any cast member could do on the show to prompt this sort of response. But if you were that racist, you would have been spamming Garcell since the moment she was cast. And that's not happening. And if it were just Diana being disgruntled, we would be seeing attacks on sentence kids. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a good point. And I think, right, it's not enough to just say like, well, Garcel's son went private. So we should be good now. It's like, that's not the fix. That's like that's like that's like the immediate like, okay, I'm going private so you all can like fuck off. But that's not like the solution to the problem. And yeah, it's, I mean, it's very weird. It's been a strange, you know, few days. Do you think the fact that this was even in the realm of possible?

has kind of cast like a sobering light on how on fans relationships with the franchises. I mean, you and your audience, I know from the comments and from everything on the account are very fair and like are really good about calling out what's not appropriate. But then I look at other pages. And it is just really crazy what people feel entitled to say and project onto these people. And I just can't help but think that's gotten out of, this is sort of a sign of how that's gotten out of control, whether it was like manipulated. but the fact that it was even in the realm of possibility is so icky.

I do think it's good. I mean, obviously there's nothing good about the fact that this happened with Jacks. But I think it's almost a little bit of a wake-up call that it's like, okay, we can all have fun. We can talk about the shows. We can be harsh on people when it's warranted. We can make fun of people when it's warranted. But, like, they're, however, like, biting or, like, you know, mean you want to be sometimes,

it's like there is there are certain lines that just like are never acceptable to cross and I think I mean for most people it's not like some big revelation that you shouldn't like say racist things to somebody's child on Instagram but like to to visualize those comments and to see like what's happening presented in this like way there is that moment where it's like oh fuck like this that's just like it's very it just it leaves like such a bad taste in your mouth and I think that is, you know, it's not a bad thing to be sort of reminded of the fact that it's like, at the end of the day, like, none of this really matters, but like, this is real. And Jack's, in the statement that he, like, posted via Garcell's account, it's like, this is his first

week of high school. He's like, not only is he like an actual child, but this is like, he's just trying to, like, live his life and now has to deal with all of this bullshit. And, you know, one thing that occurred to me yesterday is this makes me scared that Garcell is going to leave the show. Me too. Because she doesn't need it. Right. I mean, at the end of the day, of course, she should do whatever she needs to do for her. I was actually, I was going to ask you this. I bet like, because the real got canceled, right? Yes. I wonder if you think if she still had that if she'd be like out right away. Well, okay. So there's a couple twists to this, which it make me think. So, okay, first of all, I think Garcel does not need housewives.

I think she could, you know, she would be fine. She can. She's benefit from it a lot. Yes. But I think, and I think she is the kind of person who would, if she needed to leave, if that was the best decision for herself and her kids, I think she would do it in a heartbeat. But also what's interesting is Garcel earlier this year in February, she signed a first look deal with NBCUniversal. And as to my knowledge is the first housewife to have a deal.

like this where it's like an overall deal to like develop projects, whatever that means. And, you know, she has a pretty, I mean, an extremely solid relationship with the parent company of Bravo. And I think that almost makes it feel a little bit more disappointing that Bravo's response to this, at least thus far, has seemed a little bit slow, a little bit lackluster. because it's like not only should you be taking this seriously no matter who it is, but this is like one of your jewels in the crown. Like even if she wasn't a fan favorite on Housewives, even if Beverly Hills wasn't, you know,

the top rated franchise right now, it's like Garcell is not just like a housewife. She is like your, one of your like best people. It's one of the main reasons I still watch. Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point. I mean, earlier when we were saying, you know, you would expect this response for any cast member. But when you think about, you know, these are two different things that happen.

But like there was like it felt like there was weeks of unfolding devastation from Bravo about what happened to Dorete because she's a darling of that franchise. But I need to see Garcel being treated as the darling of a franchise that she is. Right. The darling of the franchise and also like the the one whose business they are most involved in. Right. Like you, like she is, she's like the one kind of. Like even, I mean, there aren't very many women who have like forged a relationship like that based on being a housewife. And I think that is not insignificant.

And it also makes me feel like they should be going above and beyond to make sure she feels supported and protected and, you know, lifted up and whatever else. But I mean, yeah, you think about somebody who had a broad. relationship with them and like Bethany like they would be all over making like I just know that they would probably go a little bit farther to make sure that her yeah her kids were protected so it's like I don't know is it do I I think all of them should be obviously all of the of the bravo but there's it just their statement just sort of I'm like well what she's supposed to do what is she supposed to do and you're right because they should be thinking oh shit we can't lose Garcel so we need to make and maybe privately they are you know working with her to figure out what she needs

maybe they're like does their need do they need to be paying for some for somebody to be outside of their home for a while as long as this is happening and they don't feel safe maybe and if bravo says why would we do that because it's just diana's bots then say that and investigate that like either cop cars outside gursale's house or we're coming down on diana right like if you're not taking it seriously because it's bots then like say that but um it also is crazy because they are like getting ready to film their reunion. They, oh no. Andy, you know how Andy always does before the reunion.

He's like, he tweets. He's like, I'm getting ready for the Beverly Hills reunion. Like, tweet me your questions. He did that like a week ago for Beverly Hills. So I'm like, they are, they must be gearing up to film here in the next week or two. You know, it's coming soon. And there's, even before this, people were speculating on whether they thought Diana would come to the reunion.

And I don't know. I can't imagine that the, I can't imagine that the vibes going into the reunion are going to be like hunky dory. No, I don't think so. Especially because do we know if Kathy's going to the reunion? I, I mean, it's so hard because we haven't, we still haven't seen Aspen. This whole Beverly Hill season. And we are not at Aspen yet. That was the whole thing.

Exactly. And that's why. The whole thing was supposed to be Erica. Right. That's why I feel like I have no idea whether Kathy is going to come to the reunion because it's all hinging on. whatever happens in Aspen and whether she sort of like desserts filming after Aspen and like I we don't know we haven't seen it yet. I've obviously I assume everyone else will be at the reunion but Diana does seem like a question mark. The only reason I would say I think she will be there is because she's still been

engaging with the show on social media and you know I don't know what the reason would be for her to be like bickering with Garcel on Instagram if she was like checked out of the show. And if she's not coming to the reunion, she's like removing herself from the show. And it's like, if you were, if you had decided on that, then you wouldn't be like posting screenshots of your group text with Garcel. But I mean, yeah,

whatever, we'll see. I think she'll go because I don't, I think she just has like a blind confidence in what she says in her defenses. And she just like doesn't really care. So she's not going to be like, oh, I can't actually really defend my, my, my behavior, which is like, I feel like past times when maybe people haven't gone. That's, that's what it is where it's like, I don't think, I think she'll defend herself. Like, she'll just like when she fights with Sutton, when she in Sutton fight, they seem like, they seem like either toddlers or like drunk middle age woman. Oh, that's what I wanted to say.

The fact that Jack's called the middle age woman was like the most charitable thing he did because they're like, some of them are like 60. Like, it's okay, Jack's. Like, yeah. But that was also just such a funny nag. He was like these middle aged women. Right. Like I am after me. Just a reminder that I am a child and these bitches are in their 50s. What a crazy. I mean, I thought this, I thought this season of Beverly Hills was like, I was like a little bored of it. And this is obviously off camera and not like a thrill to happen.

But does seem like something that's going to be sort of like a come to Jesus moment for like for something. Or so. I mean, maybe it's just Diana not coming back. But there's much more story to come, it seems. Yeah. It is. It's an, it's interesting timing going into the reunion, the last, you know, stretch of the season. because there has already been a lot of chatter about the possibility of sort of a cast shakeup.

And I think the biggest question mark of that is will Lisa Rina finally be sort of on the chopping block? Because I think the last few seasons there's been a lot of talk about like what if they got rid of Rina. But it's never felt like something that was actually being considered. And with this situation, I almost feel like Lisa Rina has, her stock has maybe gone up a little bit, if anything, just because she was one of the first ones to kind of acknowledge and address this situation that was happening with Garcel's son. And I think so much of the negativity has been focused on Diana in the last few days that Lisa Rina last week was kind of public enemy number one. And all of a sudden, it's like Diana's the bigger fish to fry,

which like in the context of housewives, it's like, who is Diana Jenkins in this world? But like in... It's like how like Bush was a total monster, but then we had Trump. So now Bush is like, oh, we love his paintings. Like what a cute tie. I mean, he's like a little bit charming. Yeah. Right. You get a real, a real whitewash when, uh, when something worse happens.

But Lisa Renna needed it. Right. And I don't hate it for her. Lisa Rina did commit war crimes with Denise, but at least, at least she's not sending bots. She's not sending bots to the doors of Garcell's son's capital. Oh, Jesus. Christ. Right. And so, I mean, we'll see. I don't know. I think, I feel like to say that Diana probably won't be back next season has not been a hot take for like four months now. But I think there still is obviously the question of whether there's going to be some kind of larger turnover. And I don't know. I don't, I don't have a super strong opinion about it. Because as much as I find Lisa Rina's behavior distasteful sometimes and she like bugs the shit out of me sometimes, I'm like, I don't think she's like a bad. housewife. So yeah, I don't know. I also hope that this could sort of maybe, I think that,

and you guys have talked about this too, that sometimes Kyle and Derreet undermine both Crystal and Garcel. They just don't trust their emotions. And, you know, I was happy with their response. So maybe this was just another opportunity for them to see like, you know, the way that women react to things is different. Like, I hope that this sort of like makes them connect with her and give her a little bit more of like a break. Yeah. Give Garcel a break. That is something we can all get behind.

Yeah. So good. So good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince, Sam Edelman, frame and free people. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices.

That's why you rack. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch.

Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for the last. a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Just to change topics, just at the end here, congratulations to Sheena and Brock on their happy... The day came.

Their Cancun wedding, which just makes sense. It's very white. One white. Sheena did not wear a crop top wedding dress this time, but she did go for three different looks. Okay, she said it was three different. looks in an interview, it's really two because the main dress has a detachable skirt, but it's just like a flowy part that like hooks on the back. It's not like a different dress.

That's two looks. It's not a different dress once you take the skirt off. It's just like a less puffy skirt. Yeah. Nobody's taking three dresses on the plane to Mexico. They were there for it. They had a welcome party, a rehearsal dinner and a wedding with an after party in a cave, DJed by James Kennedy. It is funny because I'm like... I'm actually surprised they didn't sell tickets to this, genuinely. Brak is like, for the low, low price of $2,500, you can party with me and Sheena. Flight's not included.

Hotel not included. Food not included. You're paying for everything on top, but you can physically get in the door. It's the real... It's included. It's so low. I love it. Included.

Included. What do you think of, have you looked much into the new, the announced New York City housewife? Oh, Lizzie Svetsky. I, you know, I'm not trying to pass too many judgments yet because there have been a lot of whispers of casting, some of which has been debunked, some of which is still floating around. Lizzie seems like the most kind of officially reported one thus far.

I don't know too much about her. I am very wary of the influencer casting because I think that is something where if there are one or two of them, I think that's an interesting dynamic where it's like I would love to see like a corporate, you know, a corporate gal interacting with like a, you know, fashion influence or girly. Like I think that could be like an interesting juxtaposition. Somebody else can be a stay at home mom. Like, I would like to have a mix. Whatever the mix is, I think that's going to be important.

And so for this woman, Lizzie, to be kind of the first person theoretically confirmed, again, time will tell. Like, that just makes me nervous because I'm like, I don't want six of her. No, because then it's just a totally different show. Yeah. Right. I don't want to see the, like, Emily and Parisification of Roney. Like, we're already getting that girlfriends in Paris show. which is fine.

I'll watch it. I'll watch the first episode at least. But it's like I don't want Real House of New York. I'll watch them 2x Speed during my lunch break. I don't want Real Housewives of New York to be like blogger bitches in the city. Like that sounds awful to me. So I'm hoping I'm hoping that the casting is really like 360 of variety. Obviously we want, you know, racial diversity, cultural diversity, different backgrounds,

different, you know, work situations, life situations, kids, no kids. Like, I just want them to really, like, put in the work to, like, mix it up, not just find, like, the six women who responded to a casting DM first. Exactly. That's what I was thinking is that, like, if they are having trouble sourcing people, the first place they're going to look is Instagram and, like, the people you're going to find are probably people with bigger followings. And it's like, yeah, I'm with you.

I want a corporate girlie, not a corporate girly influencer. Like, I want a stay-at-home mom, not a stay-at-home mom. influencer. Nothing against them. Like, oh my God. The biggest power move is being a stay-at-home mom because you can rely on your partner's income and then making more than them on TikTok, such a sleigh. Oh, yeah. But like, maybe not, not for my housewives. But like my absolute worst nightmare would be like Ariel Sharnas and Daniel Bernstein as housewives. Like we can't, we can't, we can't let that happen and we can't even let like one one layer away from that happen. So I think like, with Lizzie, sure. Well, it's also, it's like,

Another thing that I was just thinking with this, and I didn't really perfectly know to how to articulate it, is just that, like, sometimes I don't trust the Bravo producers to, like, represent, like, Jewishness and femininity in a way that doesn't, isn't received as anti-Semitic sometimes. So it's like, I just, I'm going to be watching for that because obviously, like, when you're an influencer, you're going to lean into certain parts of your identity. And that's great. But I don't necessarily always trust. When you think about, like, a lot of the country doesn't know Jewish people, so I'm just always mindful of that, you know? And that's probably the case with when they casted Ebony too. She probably really felt like she needed to like represent, you know, a certain type of person to people that hadn't interacted with that. So I'm just like I'm always like whenever there's like a prominent Jewish woman hired for something.

I'm like looking out for the. I'm like it's going to come. We're going to get it's going to come. Yeah. And with with Lizzie like again, like I don't know that much about her. I don't, I haven't like followed her or anything. But I know that, you know, her being Jewish is like a part of her online identity. And I think that's really cool.

Like I think it's, it's great to have people from different backgrounds and to highlight those things. Not just like, oh, there's like this one chick who happens to be Jewish, but like we don't, we don't talk about it. I think that's like a cool thing. I did laugh in the page six article about it. There was like one sentence. It was like she posts frequently on social media about accessories and her Jewish faith. And I'm like, accessory. Exactly.

That's exactly with the article I read and I was like, oh, they aren't ready for this. Like the combination of the two. where it's like she loves accessories. She loves being Jewish. I'm like, okay. That's her entire personality. I'm like reduce it to that. Both cool like religion and bracelets.

And that's literally because she had like a cute clutch that said Hotspah on it. And it's like oh, so she loves being Jewish and accessory. Oh my God. Yeah. No, like I pointed out that sentence and people were like, what's wrong with her being Jewish? I'm like, that's not the point.

No, that's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. We'll see. I'm like obviously whatever happens. I'm going to watch it.

I hope that it's good. Of course. Always. root for it to be good, but like, I need, I need some more casting to, like, soothe my concerns. Yeah. And we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. Um, but yeah, Amanda, this was so lovely. Thank you for stopping by. Always. I can't wait to listen next week to see where we're headed with this one. Beverly Hills. It'll be a, it'll be a fun one, I'm sure. Before we go, tell everyone where they can follow you and

listen to you on other batches podcasts. I'm always on the Betisup podcast Mondays through Thursdays. Yesterday we had a really exciting episode with Senator Kirsten Gillibrand. It was one of my favorite interviews that we've ever done, which is like a great interview. And if you're not too into politics, but you've heard about like some cool things happening, check it out. It's called, what do we call it?

Oh, we called a hot Senate summer, of course. So check that out. Amanda Duperman everywhere else. And it is an election year. So go check your voter registration. Please. And get that in order before. Especially if you're from Missouri like Dylan.

Oh, Lord. This is my first year not voting in Missouri, and I am so much less dressed. I'm like, wow, I don't have to see the ballot and just have my stomach drop because of all these like, because of all these like jabrones that are going to win these elections. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Amanda. Thank you, everyone for listening. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches.

And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mention It All is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousmakat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico, Social Media by Dylan Hafer, guest booking by Dylan Hafer, and Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th, the powerful vocals of Demi Lovato on May 17th, and the signature,

Southern Country Rock of Eric Church on July 19th. Tickets on sale now at Yamava Theater.com. Only at Yamava Resort and Casino, celebrating its 40th anniversary. U.N. must be 21 to enter. Betches.