Mention It All - The RHOBH Reunion Autopsy Ft. Sami Sage

Episode Date: October 27, 2022

To break down the final part of the RHOBH reunion, Dylan is joined by Betches’ own Sami Sage, and they start with differing opinions on Kyle’s role in the downfall of her relationship with Kathy. They get into the details of *that* night in Aspen, and discuss Erika’s slowly evolving perspective on her situation. They also take a critical look at double standards among the cast, and why Garcelle deserves credit for calling out uneven treatment. Finally, they evaluate who is in the best position heading into next season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All. A Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, boo. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I'm Dylan Hafer.

And today, for the final part of the Beverly Hills reunion, I felt like it was a no-brainer who I was going to have on the podcast. It is Sammy Sage, Betcha's co-founder. She's had lots of thoughts about Beverly Hills all season long. And I'm glad she's with me today. Hi, Sammy. How's it going? Thank you. I am thrilled to be here. I am ready to talk Beverly Hills. I feel like a weight has been lifted weirdly that the season's over. And now I can like dive into the more trustworthy waters of Potomac in peace.

Yeah. I'm like, what does it say about us that as Kyle is like basically in fetal position crying on the couch, we're like, the weight's lifted. It's over. We made it. I mean, I loved that they, I mean, I'm going to start at the end, but I love that they showed like what the relationship between Kyle and Kathy has been like and that their only contact has been at BravoCon, a work obligation. Right. And I don't think, I mean, I didn't see them personally interacting at BravoCon. Obviously, they saw each other. They took a photo, whatever. I don't think they were like, buddy, buddy all weekend. No, I mean, Kyle was right.

Like she knew walking out that Kathy was going to ice her out. And it appears that she has done so. Because if they weren't like at odds, then they would, the first time they would have seen each other wouldn't have been BrockCon. Yeah. It's a tricky, it's a tricky situation for Kyle to navigate. Because whether or not you think her part in this feud between the sisters is like whether you think that she has, she deserves. this or not, I think she is right that she has this one opportunity with Kathy at the reunion where she knows they're going to sit down and talk about this stuff.

And it is, it's tough to watch those last few minutes when Kyle is getting kind of desperate. And she's like, I need, I really want, I need to leave here in a better place with my sister. And Kathy is just not quite going to give it to her. and Kyle knows that she might not have another chance soon or, you know, in the near future, that this is the one time she has a guarantee that they're going to be sitting on a couch next to each other. And whether or not Kathy is responding, she's going to listen. And I mean, it's pretty brutal, honestly, watching the state that they end up in. No matter what you think of like, she did this, she should have said.

this, she shouldn't have said that. It's just like, damn, this sucks. Yeah, it's, it does seem, it does feel really sad. I left feeling pretty badly for Kyle. Um, and do you want to talk about this first? Is this our first? Yeah, I don't think we, I don't think we need to like, uh, I don't think we need to like recap minute by minute. Just, just wander. Let's do this. Yeah, let's do this first. Because it's obviously the most like interesting and, and, um, so ultimately like, so interesting because Kathy presents one of those, one of these few situations where I actually believe every single thing that Lisa Rina said, but Kathy still came out on top of that dispute. And I, you know, that is a lesson, I think, in some sort of like self-image management. But ultimately,

it really, I think, the evilness of Kathy, I don't see as a, much in, like, her drunk tantrum, which, yeah, like, obviously that's, like, really bad. But I think the real cruelty is that she will not forgive Kyle because Lisa Rina blew up Kathy's tantrum about Kyle. So it's like, you talk so much shit about your sister and then you're mad that somebody else exposed what you said. Like, how is Kyle supposed to, she, she, like, puts Kyle in these impossible positions. and I just don't really like see what Kyle is supposed to do.

Lisa Rina's going to put this out there whether or not it hurts her friend Kyle. Right. And we see at the reunion, maybe Kyle wasn't this way from the beginning, but she is frustrated with Lisa Rina for continuing to drag this out and bring it up and start shit on social media and kind of stir up the pot time and time again. And she says, you know, this is only her. hurting me at this point when you and Erica are out here, you know, being messy and doing all of this stuff. It is, it's tough because I think in a way it's like I would like Kyle to be more

angry at Rina for kind of how she's tarnished the relationship between her and Kathy. But at the same time, I don't think it's just Rina's fault. I think Kathy is clearly making a choice that she is going to now, you know, not make amends with Kyle in the way that Kyle, whether or not Kyle has earned it is a different question, but Kyle so clearly wants it. And Kathy is making a conscious decision not to give it to her. Well, like, if you believe Kathy, which is that all of what we're saying is untrue, which come on, it's obvious, like, you think she made up that Kathy stomps on her glasses. Like, I do not trust Lisa Rina at all. And I do believe what she said in this case is true. You could see her saying all those things. You could see that she was getting more

angry throughout the night, starting at the Kamo Sabe party, going through the dinner, and that she said that thing to Erica about the DJ. Like, I 100% believe she said that. Like, you could see her saying that. You could see her, like, walking up and just being, like, enraged and then getting more and more mad until she's like throwing a fit at the house. I don't, like, I know you're, you're not the first person to say to me that they wish Kyle would be more frustrated at Rina. But like, why should she be if it's her sister who said these things? Like, that's what I don't really, like, understand.

Like, what's, like, is Kyle supposed to defend her sister? for the horrible thing she said about Kyle? Yeah, to me, it's not so much a question of should Kyle be choosing Kathy or Rina to be mad at or defend? It's more like, obviously, Kyle has said some of these things about what Kathy said in Aspen or the details or the specifics that she would rather just not know because obviously those things are going to take on a life of their own and manifest themselves. in the future of their relationship and that it would be, at the end of the day, Kyle is like,

I just want everyone to get along and I want my sisters. And it's easier for her to move into that headspace if she doesn't know that Kathy is like calling her a peon and saying, destroying her is the last thing she's going to do. So I don't know if it's necessarily like, oh,

she should be mad at Rina and like not mad at Kathy. but it's more just that like this conversation, this whole reunion situation where Kyle is like completely broken on the couch and isn't going to leave this feeling

any type of good. We wouldn't be having this conversation if Rina hadn't made it such a thing. But that doesn't mean that, that doesn't mean that Rina shouldn't have said anything. I'm not like, I'm not like Rina should never have opened her mouth about Kathy and she should have stayed quiet because to be honest, what the hell would we be talking about?

What would the last third of this season have been if there was no drama coming out of this Aspen trip? We need the drama. And that's why I'm not, that's why I'm not one of those people who jumps to like, fire Lisa Rina. She's a bad person. I'm like, bad people make good TV a lot of the time. And while there are definitely times like, like Andy at the end of the reunion, where I'm like, We get it.

Thank you. Thank you. We heard from you already. I don't think that Rina is a bad housewife in the way that people act like she is sometimes. Like I think she is overall helpful to the show. I'm honestly like a little sick of her as a housewife, but not because she's like a bad person. Like there's no ethics in any of this. Like let's not pretending that this is like an ethical endeavor and that like we're looking to these people as like a moral North

star. Like, we're not. This is not about that. It's not what we're here for. Not everything that, like, every person does is, like, an ethical use of time. So it's like, this is putting that aside. I do think that Lisa Rina, even though I am all for, like, the truth coming out and, like, being stated, her excuse, I still don't have time of day for her because her excuse for why she had to say this is because it was so bad she'd get cancer. she was abused. Like that whole thing, that whole like over dramatization of it. Like, don't be like, I'm going to get cancer if I don't say the thing.

If I don't reveal what Kathy said about her sister. Like that's ridiculous. Right. Just like you just stop. Like you want to get it out there for whatever reason. Like don't make it about like you're going to get cancer if you, if you don't say it. It's just so stupid. Like that's what annoys me about her.

Not that like she put this out there. Like, of course she should put this out. there. It's like really fucked up. If, if this tantrum really happened as she said it did, which I do believe that it probably was close to that, like, why? Like, you don't need to be like, uh, you don't need to play like this is some like moral ethical thing you're doing. Right. Just say it. Right. When, when Andy lists off the things that Lisa Rina says, Kathy said in Aspen, that's enough. Like those, that list of things is shock. enough is hurtful enough to everyone on those couches that you don't need to also be like,

I was afraid for my life because she was stepping on her glasses. Like we like, like, right. Like you weren't like abused, Lisa. Like it was towards her. It was just like a tantrum in her presence, it sounds like. Right. I can totally understand Lisa being like I felt uncomfortable and I wish I wasn't the one that was there.

But at the same time, it's like, I don't think you feared for your life. Right, exactly. Like if you said, oh, she took a knife and was like waving it in the air, sure. But it doesn't seem like that. It just seems like you bore witness to like a child's tantrum is really like what it did. But I will say the one thing that I am kind of like pro on how this all ended is that it does not appear that the Fox Force 5 is going to be long for this world anymore. considering that it's now like Erica and Rinna as a little duo. Doreet is, I don't think Doreet's going to take their side.

Like, I think Doreet's going to go with Kyle. There's no way Kyle's going to be able to be buddy, buddy with Rina or like even like align with her safely. So, I mean, maybe Kyle will leave the show like she had threatened to do, you know, a few months ago. Yeah. Kyle leaving the show to me is something that I'm like, I will believe it if and only when I see it.

If it only when she gets like a six movie deal for the Halloween series. Like sure, then I'll believe it. You know, Kyle wants to focus on her acting. Yes, of course. We are leaving this reunion, I think, in a more interesting place in terms of full cast dynamics because we see, I think, Kyle and Garcell are in a better place than they maybe have been in the past. And I think Kyle shifting more to that Sutton Garcell.

side of things could be an interesting look. Kyle and Crystal really got into it earlier in the reunion. I think it's easy to kind of forget that because the Kathy stuff sucked so much oxygen out of the season. But like that Kathy and Kyle and Crystal is a really interesting thread that I would love to follow more next season. I do think there is kind of more chaotic momentum within the group in a positive way than just like, well, these four people aren't ever going to go against each other. So good luck with the scraps of what's left of the cast. Like I'm happy about that. And I do think with Rina and Erica, if they do both stay next season, it's going to be really, I'm going to be really curious to see kind of do they try to course correct at all? Do they try and kind of have more of a redemption arc? Because certainly Rina, I think more than ever, with the fans and also with certain members of the cast is in a position where she just looks like a shitty person and a shitty friend. And it's like, we, that's not, that's not fun.

Even if she, you know, flips off the audience and wants to have a, you know, a fuck you attitude on social media. It's like, I don't think she's feeling good about her position right now. No. And I don't think she's getting put on pause in like the Derinda sense because as ultimately, like, She is just sort of doing her job as a housewife. She's not, like, from what we know, abusing producers or getting, like, so drunk that it's causing, you know, she's not having those, like, HR issues. Right. She's not out of control.

She just kind of sucks. Right. Right. She's just in her villain era. You know, she, you know, she's harassing people on social media. She's, like, kind of being a weirdo. But, no, I agree with you. It's way more exciting to watch the dynamics.

And because you know that they're all going to be talking a lot, like they're all going to be having individual lunches and group get-togethers in the off season. And I have a feeling what we're going to probably see is like a solidification of like Kyle and Dorete as besties separate from Lisa and Erica, who I think will start next season as like villain, duo, buddy, buddy. Like everyone kind of hates them. But then we'll see how maybe those alliances will shift. I think Diana is like definitely out. Oh, yeah. So, and I mean, Garcel, the only person she had any sort of any bad blood with was Diana.

So I actually think Garcell is going to sort of start become the focal, the center point of the cast. Like a Garcell and Sutton will become the kind of people who everybody likes and everybody is like kissing their asses, which my, how the tables have turned there from last season. But I agree with you. It's way more exciting when it's like not solid who is sticking with who. Yeah. I think with these cast sometimes, it's like you want it to feel like there are real friendships and relationships. But you also want it to feel like people are actually listening and responding in real time to what's happening and not just automatically being like, that's my friend.

So we're going to be friends for the next. six seasons no matter what happens. The peaks in the valleys are important and they matter. And I think Garcel this season obviously is in a total fan favorite position. People really just adore her. And in the group, she hasn't quite had that same reception that she has in real life. And I think she's done a good job of pointing out some of the double standards in the group. And I thought it was interesting in part three of the reunion when they were talking about Erica's kind of behavior throughout the season and talking about this Jacks thing. And Erica talked about, Garcell talked about in this group kind of when people apologize. They want to be very

quick and upfront about owning it. And then we move on. And if you stay mad at the person or if you're not ready to move forward with them, you're the one who's kind of made to look petty or crazy or like you just need to get over it or you're holding a grudge. And I think that that was interesting to hear from Garcell because I think we've seen in multiple situations where in the last couple seasons, maybe she wasn't extended the grace that like somebody like Alisa or an Erica would have if they stayed mad at somebody for half a season. When it's like, she apologized for the Jacks thing. Move on.

And it's like, life is messier than that. And she was, I think Garsel had every right to be, have a lot of feelings about that situation. And I like that she is pointing things like that out because I think it's good for the audience to think about. And I think it's something for the women to chew on a little bit as well. I love that you pointed that out because I love that she pointed that out. Like I thought that was such an astute comment by her.

And really shows, I was, I was happy because she sort of, she didn't like break the fourth wall there, but she did call out a reality that I'm sure it's one of those things where it's like the, you know, like you're watching a horror movie or like, you know, the watcher and like the, you're screaming at a TV. You're like, don't do that. Like that's one of the, that's sort of what it felt like, like the character acknowledging that like it was stupid, stupid to walk down the dark hallway. And it's like she, I thought that was just like a great comment because it put the whole, it basically clued us into the fact that she is aware of there's like certain rules of engagement with this group. And I thought that that was just like a really great comment by her to have called that out. I think also like in the past parts, especially when the Diana stuff was coming up and

Diana with Garcel and Diana with Sutton. The idea of some of these women, Kyle definitely did this being so quick to jump in and explain Diana's feelings or explain maybe where Diana was coming from, where Garcell, which I think certainly it comes into the conversation, Garcel being a black woman in this group of mainly white women, but also just, you know, them not being a great friend to her all the time. it's like why are we extending grace to some people and not to others? Why are we being so accommodating for one person's feelings, but then telling the other person, was it really that big of a deal?

Crystal got the same treatment with all the stuff about feeling violated or making a dark comment. Like we're picking apart so many words. But then Diana is saying that Sutton is soulless and evil and all of this stuff. And that's just like not seen as something to take serious. And it's like, we can debate like evil versus the C word, but I think like a dark comment versus evil is like not definitely not the same. Yeah, I mean, the standards in this group are inexplicable. But like, let's say P.K. yelled at one of Kyle's daughters. That would be just so or Ken Vanderpump, you know, like that would be so like out of the realm of okay.

And everyone will watch that and be like, this man is an abuser. Like you could just know what like what would happen if something like that happened. And Garcel does not get that same respect. Right. And even within the the group reactions, Garcell brought up last night to Kyle. She said if it was one of your kids, it would have been a totally different story. And Kyle's reaction to that was to get defensive and to be kind of like, no, no, I don't think so. And I think all of us watching the show, when this went down, I saw so many people talking on social media.

Like, imagine if this was Portia. We would never. this would be the storyline for the entire season. We, it would be a crusade for justice. And, you know, that, it would be justified in some sense. And so, like, the fact that Garcel, these women that weren't even there for it had heard about it and were like immediately making light of it. It's like, yeah, I don't think it would have been the same if it was your daughter.

But I guess we'll never quite know. Can I just ask you one perception question about Kathy before we move on to like a different set of people? do you feel so it struck me last night how she sort of like a comes across as matronly but she does it on purpose can do you have any like reaction to that like does that strike you as something she's like trying to weaponize or lean into i that's an interesting question i actually noticed it's a there's like this i don't know if it's just generational or if it's also like a class thing or whatever but i've noticed there a few women in the Housewives universe that carry their handbag with them everywhere they go. And I noticed this at BravoCon because they would come on stage for these panels. And it's Ramona Singer, Kathy Hilton, and Marisol Patton. So they'll just like old funny-dunty vibes. We'll come on any stage with their little pocketbook.

And it's, I, so I know exactly what you mean. And I think with Kathy, it's a mix of matronly a little bit, but also just like a little bit kooky, a little bit, not like, I don't know, the whole thing with like Rick and the iPad and all of that stuff. And Andy, you know, I need my glasses and those sorts of things. It's endearing in a way, but then also I think it can very easily shift into an excuse or a way to kind of. kind of slither out of being held accountable because you're like, oh, honey, I don't even, uh, what? Oh, um, okay. Whatever. Okay. Like, I think it's, in one sense, I think it's like maybe just a part of her personality, but I also think if you're giving Kathy a little more credit in terms of being a strategic

person who is really aware of the optics of everything that is kind of going on around her, I think it scores her a lot of free points to be like the fun, silly one who walks on stage with the purse and needs her glasses and always has the slippers. It's like, yeah, she knows. She knows that. Yeah, I agree. I think it's like a little bit of a shield. And I've been trying, I think I've been trying to find a way to articulate this for the past

two seasons that she uses this like older, like, you're not going to be that rude to an old, a very old person, you know? So she comes on, like, looking like Queen Elizabeth in, like, a mate. She chose that outfit. She chose that purse. She chose that pair of shoes. Like, it just felt like she chose to come looking, like, a generation older than the rest of the cast. But I also think she does it, like, you said, like, with the technology and the glasses.

And, like, she tried to, this went a little bit, like, quick. But she tried to be, like, there's no text on my phone that I sent to Lisa Rina. And then Andy looks at Lisa's phone and she like, he sees the text and it's like, you're trying to kind of like, you're really throwing everything at the wall. Yeah. And like so that it's anything but this like evil spiral you went down about everyone in the room. And it's like all just about like let me like keep throwing smoke in your face like with my like. Yeah. I'm glad you brought up the text because that to be honest, that moment fell so fell so flat that I kind of forgot about it already.

But it was first of all. I appreciate that aside from that one little moment, this was, I think, a receiptless reunion, which we don't get that often anymore. And I think it shows that a lot of the time, we don't need to see a million receipts for every text message you sent throughout the season. Or they learn not to put things in writing.

Just discuss it. And I think with Kathy, you know, last year she came with her little handwritten notes. But it's like, you like waving your phone in front of Andy's face isn't the and be all end all of proof the way that you're acting like it is. And whether or not, whether or not there was a fake text message, I don't, like, nothing that Kathy could show me on her phone would convince me. You know, like, you don't know how to use DMs.

I'm not going to believe that what you say about your text message history is like solid proof. Exactly. Exactly. That was just a weird, that was a weird moment. Yeah. drinks are now at McDonald's, with refreshers like the strawberry watermelon refresher, and the mango pineapple refresher with popping boba, to crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast, with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Try them all now at McDonald's.

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Okay, we got to talk about Erica's legal sense. situation and her decisions on how to discuss it and not discuss it and dance around it and declare victory. And I think since that night in Aspen where she was really just kind of off the rails about the whole like victim situation, we haven't talked about it a lot. And obviously people in the cast had strong reactions, people watch. the show had strong reactions. And so seeing her at the reunion kind of taking a step back a little bit. And it feels like she's trying to carve out this middle lane between, you know, the evil Aspen look and kind of what we've been asking for, where she's like, I didn't mean that there aren't victims in the world.

I just mean that because I've been cleared of responsibility, I don't have victims. So what do you really want me to do? fact that even Doree is still like, honey, honey, honey, that's not, this is, can you just say, like, still nobody can wrap their minds around, like, just, just, just stop like, stop qualifying it. There are victims. Right. I mean, Erica generally strikes me. If you've ever, like, witness someone who's never been to therapy, then, like, goes to

therapy late in life. And they start, like, unsolicit. all those like solid mental issues that they had like really set. That's what I think we're watching from Erica. I think we're watching someone who's in like a very big transitional time therapy-wise and is trying to both like, like as her neural pathways reform into like new Erica, I think she's having trouble verbally. I mean, reconciling sort of like her recovery with her like need to defend herself,

both legally and like from an emotional standpoint. And I think that that's why we're getting some of this like inconsistency and like a little bit of softening and like regret. But like she's not able yet to fully be like I was wrong. If you know what I mean. But but I think that like we're watching someone who is experiencing her first like major I don't want to call like post-traumatic, but like, you know, she went through a huge. huge thing.

And we're watching, like, the therapy in the process, kind of. Yeah, I did think it was an interesting choice of a metaphor to say that she's putting her oxygen mask on. It's like steer clear of the plane crash metaphor, Erica, for the love of God. Like, next she's going to be like, well, it's like, I'm in the burn unit and I'm salvaging my burns. And then I'm going to get to other people's burns. It's like, find something else to complete.

pair it to. But I do, first you deposited my escrow account before you deposited someone else. It's like you take, you take your cut of the money before you give somebody else theirs. Like, I do,

I think you're right in that it's like, she is on a pathway of figuring out kind of how to navigate these topics in a way that doesn't seem so callous. But it's like, she just isn't getting there very quickly. And I think there are certain things where it's like, you could just say this now and kind of like figure out how you feel about it later. I think it's like too hard for her. Like I think that she, it hasn't been long enough for her to understand fully.

Like she doesn't yet have the self-awareness that let's say someone like Garcel has and is able to be like, I know that it won't look good or do anything to like not accept this apology. You know, she doesn't yet have that. and I think she just like can't. I think if she could, she would. Yeah, I don't disagree. And I think the earrings are kind of a physical manifestation of that maybe, that she can't accept or acknowledge or wrap her mind around the fact that it would make things a lot easier for her in certain ways to just fucking give up on the earrings.

Because, you know, she was like, but they're mine. But I earned them. But I own them. They are mine. And it's like, right. Nobody is actually, nobody is gaslighting you about, you know, whether or not these earrings are owned by you. They're asking you to think a little more critically about what this means and how this looks and how this comes across as a public figure. And as somebody who was caught up in this unfortunate situation for a lot of people.

And, you know, I mean, the exchange with Andy where he's like, but you're trying to get them back. And she's like, we're on appeal for legal reasons. Yeah. He's like, so you're trying to get them back. We're on appeal for legal reasons. What she's saying is like, okay, well, they're saying I'm not implicated so I should be able to keep them. But again, like to your point, it's beyond that.

It's beyond like, should you or should you not be allowed to keep them? It's like, do you want to keep them? Right. Do you need to keep them? Right. And of course, you can only put yourself in her shoes so much if you haven't gone through something similar. So when you ask the, I mean, I earned my $50 million myself.

So no. But like when all the other women are like, show of hands, I would give up the earrings. I don't think they're, I don't think they're being disingenuous. But I also think it's a little tough to really imagine the full depth of everything that Erica has experienced in the last two years. It's not just, hey, you get to keep your life, but we need the earrings. It's like it's representative of something larger. When she says, I don't care about the house. I don't care about the money.

It's like, okay, maybe in a concrete sense, you're okay with not living in that house anymore. But that doesn't mean that you have no residual feelings about the entire life being upended. Yeah, no, this is like a five-year recovery, like for anybody. Like, whether or not she is like ethical. in this, her life was completely upended. Even if only, the only thing that happened was that Tom had to go to like a facility for, you know, people who have dementia. Like, even if that would only change to happen to her, that would be a really big deal.

Because the truth is, like, whether or not he was like totally dishonest this whole time, she was, in fact, married to him. Right. And living with him and living this life with him. So even just like the change of like, wait, that's. nodded anymore is probably like just wild. And again, I don't think Erica has ever like had a moment in her life where she had to like really examine the ethics or like the circumstances that she's in.

She was just like happy to be there. And I think that it's just she's a very, she's definitely an interesting one to watch. And to your point, like she can't deny that she's not in her house. But like the earrings, like she's wearing them in Aspen. Yeah, I do think, I'm not sure about her claim that she's ruthlessly being persecuted, but, you know, I do think there's a little bit of gray area there in terms of like, she has really gone through it in the last two years. I did think Andy's, Andy's random pivot to asking her about Ruth Madoff felt wild to me. Oh, my God, I was like, to me, that was like such an obvious question. That's what I would have asked.

I would have asked for that on Watson, what happens live. Like I feel like that's such a good question, but I do see why, like, in the Bravo world, it was like, why are you bringing, you can't, that's like bringing COVID, you know, it's just awkward. To me, it would make sense if you were like, have you ever talked to Ruth Madoff about your situation or like, have you, are you in contact with her? But when Andy's just like, do you think about Ruth? And Erica's like, you know, I don't think about Ruth. It's like, I don't think about Ruth either. She's just like an 80-year-old woman living her life. If I were Eric, I'd be thinking about Ruth.

I'm thinking about Ruth in Erica's context. So I don't know why Erica's not thinking about Ruth, honestly. Now I have to, have you watched Blue Jasmine? I have watched Blue Jasmine. Do we know what Ruth is like up to? I think she's like in hiding. Like she's like low key to my knowledge. She's not saying she's not pulling in Erica to my knowledge.

Like I think, I mean, look, Ruth never tried to have a pop star career. Right. Ruth's new dance single is dropping this month. Erica got asked at BravoCon about new music and she was like, it's ready, it's coming. And I'm like, okay. Right. Like, Erica's also like, like Ruth was like 80 something.

That's the other thing. Like she was collect, she could have been collecting social security at that point. You know, like, like Erica is still like middle age. Like she has a rest of life to figure out, you know? Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's the thing. Like as long as Ruth has like food and shelter, she can, I'm pretty sure Ruth got to keep like one or two million dollars, if I remember correctly.

Like she got to keep like, she's fine. Like Ruth can just kind of like ride it out till it's time for her. Whereas like Erica has to like figure out a life. Yeah. Erica has like some decades to go and like, you know, good thing she doesn't have to support any kids. Neither did Ruth. But like, yeah, Ruth. Ruth to my knowledge is like low key, not trying to make a comeback.

We're not going to see. Ruth as a friend of next season. Not expensive to be Ruth. Beverly Hills. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes.

Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope.

It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 premium and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at Windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th, terms at AKA.m.m.m.m.m.com slash college PC. Okay, we talked about Kathy stuff before, but we didn't touch on this rehash of tequila gate that happened at Kama. Kama Sabe or however she says it.

I do love, with all the stuff between Kathy and Kyle, the fact that Kyle has to, like, correct her pronunciation of Kimasabe, it's like, just let it go. That's such a sister thing, like, how Kathy, like, tells Kyle not to curse. Even when Kyle curse, she's like, I'm allowed to curse because like, I'm really mad right now. That plays into the matronly thing too. It's like, shut up, Kathy. Like, please. Right. Like, you're calling the DJ. You're using slurs in clubs.

Okay. Relax. And she's like, I never would talk like that. It's like, we know anyone who really knows, knows that you would talk like that. So just. I've always felt like that's a weak defense when people use it on housewives or on other reality shows when they're like, that. that doesn't sound like something I would say.

And it's like maybe it doesn't, but that doesn't mean that you physically couldn't have said the words. Right, right. It's like, does people only have like 10 things that they say and you like press them? And it's like, oh, I'm not programmed for that one. Like it's just like you did say it though. Right. It's like, okay. Like yeah, like on a given day, anyone could call someone else a motherfucker.

That's not like so. It's not like a language you don't speak. It's just like not your favorite word to say. Right. And it's also not like, oh, this isn't an opinion that they would have. You know, like it doesn't sound like that. That is an opinion they would share. You know, it's just like a word.

Right. It's a weak excuse. But I was- You were requesting Michael Jackson, Kathy. I think that you were fine with the word. I was surprised to hear that Kathy, Kathy's claim that she wasn't upset with Lisa Rina for ordering the 818 because it was a pretty easy. roll footage type of moment where it's like we literally have you on camera being like,

I'm at the Kendall Jenner Tequila, the 8-1-8. And it's like you can say that you're no longer mad or that you overreacted in the moment, but like, please don't, please don't deny that you were ever upset with Lisa Rina for the tequila. Well, I think she's has to, I think part of why she was like playing all that like pre-anger down is because she knows that if you're watching this, It looked like she was getting progressively more angry from the moment she arrived in Aspen from like the slippers and the room and then it was the tequila and then it was the DJ with the songs. Like the way she sounds like so entitled where she's like she's like, well, in the south of France and in Europe and in Paris they will take my song requests. Like I'm not even a member here, but I've been here.

It's like you can hear her getting so, like you can tell that just she felt like why. one slight after another. She's not used to not being, like, bowed down to. And the whole weekend was just, like, her being put in a place that she's not used to. And she just kept getting madder. Like, and I don't know. Like, it's so, she tried to do that twice.

Like, Kathy with the saying, like, oh, I wasn't mad about the tequila. Then, like, I didn't send you that text. And then she's like, I didn't say any of those things that you said. It's like that you, that Rinna said she said. And it's like, okay. well, like, you just keep trying to say you didn't, but like, we saw you. Right. And with the other thing, like, with the outbursted Aspen or the, you know, the slur with the

DJ, it's like, okay, those things aren't on camera. So there's a little bit of it's always going to be a she said. She said it's always going to be under a little bit of a cloud. But with this tequila thing, it's like we all watched the scene. And I, her kind of reframing it at the reunion as. I was upset with myself for having an expectation. Basically, she doesn't really say an expectation of Kyle, but that's kind of implied that it's like, I expected Kyle to support me more.

And so I'm not quite upset with Kyle. I'm not going to say I'm upset with Kyle, but I'm disappointed in myself for expecting support from Kyle. And it, I mean, it puts Kyle. But that doesn't explain her in the moment behavior. Exactly. It's like there's a difference between looking back at a situation and unpacking why you got so upset and why you handled it the way you did, which maybe that's authentic for her. Maybe that is kind of her mental process of, okay, this is why it happened that way. But we're talking about what you said at the tequila.

we're at Kibosaba. Like, there's a difference between talking about your behavior and giving us, like, a paragraph on what you think led to the behavior. And I think I wish Kathy would be a little bit more in the moment in terms of, like, yeah, I was pissed off. Yeah, I was mad at Kyle. X, Y, Z, connect to the dots. But it feels like she's kind of trying to talk around it. And Kyle's like, you're saying it's my fault. It's my fault.

Okay. Okay, fine. It's my fault. It's my fault. Right. That, again, is like, this is, okay, it seems like every logical argument we have made today has been mostly against Kathy. And yet she still seems like she came out on top. And that's what's so interesting about it is that she shouldn't have blamed it on Kyle.

How is Kyle supposed to control what comes out of Lisa Renna's mouth? And it seems like Kathy just wants to take all of her anger. at her own behavior and at least her renter for exposing it and just put it all on Kyle when in reality like Kyle doesn't Kyle was the one who she talked who her own who got you know talk shit about by her sister and then Rina exposed it on TV assuming that Kyle didn't ask her to do that. So I don't see how any of this is actually Kyle's fault. Yeah, I think it's like Kyle and Kathy can have their own personal issues with each other. But I think in the way that Kathy is processing the group dynamic, she's sort of

placing an undue burden on Kyle in terms of Kyle is like, I was planning this event. I was trying to host a fun event. I didn't even know ahead of time that your tequila was going to be part of it. So obviously that was fun, but it wasn't like the reason they were there. She doesn't, she's not, you know, there's how many different people there? It's like, it does feel a little bit like what was Kyle really supposed to do in that moment. But also I think there is maybe a thing of if they're filming this reunion, Kathy has already seen Rina getting, you know, dragged to hell and back on social media.

The fans are kind of not loving her this season to put it lightly. But maybe she feels like Kyle is kind of getting a free pass or isn't, is getting off too easy. So maybe she comes into this reunion and is like, Rina can look bad all by herself. but I'm going to focus on my issues with Kyle a little bit and, you know, maybe be a little bit vindictive. But like you said, she still comes out of the reunion seeming like kind of the champ a little bit, or at least the most unbothered out of everybody on the couch.

Yeah. I mean, she is, there's a reason she's Kathy Hilton. That is really the truth. It's like, and I wonder to what extent, like, her name. almost precedes her and allows her to get away with it. But whatever she's doing, it's fucking working. Exactly. And I've talked to a couple people who are like, you see, you like don't like,

like you seem to like soft on Rina or you're like anti-Cathy or that sort of vibe. Like I've heard that from a couple people. And I think it's just, it's like more complicated than that because. I think Rina is a whole mess of her own shit. And I have, you know, lots of frustrations with her. I feel like I have expressed those frustrations week after week. Like, I am not coming out of this season as like a Rina fan, a Rina defender, like a Rina apologist in any way. But I just don't think it's as simple as like Kathy's the hero and Lisa's the villain because I think they're both complicated, sometimes shitty friends.

sisters, people. Like, there's just a lot going on. And, you know, add Kyle and Erica to the pile. I don't think any of these people are saints or, you know, martyrs. Like, I think it's a complex situation and everybody has certain things that they've handled poorly in these, you know, multiple seasons that we've watched. And so I think it's one of those things where maybe one person on a given week is more obnoxious or had the worst moment. But at the end of the day, it's like, this situation didn't turn out well for anyone. No. And that's the thing.

It's like we're, that's why Hasloves is so amazing because it's like we're looking for like the gray and these like very messy, very real human behaviors. And like the beauty of it is that there is no clear black and white right, wrong. And like that's why it's so frustrating to when people are trying to. trying to like find the ethics of it. It's like, no, like they're all just like out for themselves. This is all how they would all act. And it makes perfect sense. And it's beautiful to watch. Yeah, I did like in the kind of last few minutes as they're, you know, finishing the do the toast, whatever, uh, Doreet's going to Kyle's room. And you see on the stage kind of like the last people there

are, uh, Sutton, Garcell and Crystal taking a cute little photo together. And I'm like, that is kind of so representative of the note that this season is ending on that it's like, well, at least three of the eight can stand up and take a nice photo together. Like Diana's Zoom got cut off hours ago. Kyle's in a ball on the floor. Rina and Erica are about to go, you know, I don't know. Rip shots. Do whatever they want to do.

But it's like the three of us can take a nice little photo. And it's funny because if you think about how like the last season ended, they, the five of them were trying to ice out those three. Yeah. And they did not succeed. And I think with Crystal, she didn't have a lot to do in this part of the reunion, so we haven't talked much about her. But just I think it is, it's noteworthy that it felt like there was a lot of outside pressure

on the three of them kind of trying to pick apart their friendships. It's suggesting, you know, after Crystal had made that dark comment, it was very clear that she and Sutton had put their issues to bed. Sutton and Garcel were on a good page. The three of them really were kind of withstanding outside pressure to have issues with each other. And it makes me happy at the end of the season to see the three of them standing together. And like, we don't need Erica's approval or like Rina to understand why I want to be friends with you. We just get along.

And that going into potentially season 13, assuming that. Let's just assume that all seven of these women that were, aside from Diana, are coming back next season. It's like the three of them are a more solid three than anyone else in the cast at this point. And I think that's important. It's good. You know, that's, I'm into that. I'm into that being. I like Sutton and Garcell and Crystal.

I think they all are very interesting wives. And they're not, you know, they haven't sort of like reached this weird decline. where they've either started like fighting in circles or just have been so like distorted by the show. Exactly. Do you have any other final thoughts before we put this season to bed? Lock it in the, lock it in the room in Aspen and send it. Yeah. I will say that like I really don't appreciate how everyone in L.A.

is turning into Chloe Kardashian one person at a time. Like Lisa Rina should not be showing up. to the reunion and I should not be doing double takes because I think I see Chloe Kardashian. Just that's my final thought. Yeah.

Yeah. Bring faces back. Bring different faces back. Right. Like who is this doctor who is giving every motherfucking buddy the same exact face? Right.

It's the face and then it's the glam and the hair and the jewelry is exactly something that the Kardashians were. It's just like, just, yeah, get your, get your glam together, do your own thing. Don't look like Chloe. I don't like it.

Chloe doesn't even look like Chloe. Chloe looks like a, it's almost like there was like a model like created and it's just all by this like one doctor in L.A. And it's all just about how to get everyone as close to that one model. And Chloe was like the original. So now everyone looks like Chloe's the prototype. Like Meredith Marks looks like Chloe.

Yeah. So he or Ritchie looks like Chloe. Kylie looks like Kim. They all look like Chloe. I'm going to send you. I'm going to send you anytime I see someone who looks like Chloe. Maybe you could do a series. Totally.

I mean, yeah. Everybody likes to. I don't want to do that. I'm like, wow. Now I have to think about Chloe Kardashian. Good for us. You're going to see it. So we thank you for being here.

Remind everyone where they can listen to you and follow you when you're not talking about the Beverly Hills reunion. When I'm not talking about the Beverly Hills reunion, I'm usually talking about the news and current events. You can find me on Instagram at Sammy on TikTok or Twitter at Sammy Sage Says. And you can also listen to me every single morning on the morning announcements. I do five-minute breakdowns of news of the day's headlines. It is quick. It's easy.

And there's jokes. And we are very liberal and biased. So don't come expecting this if you are, you know. And make sure you vote. We have an election coming up. Oh, and really vote. Get your voting plan in order. But Sammy, thank you so much for being here.

As always, thank you everyone for listening. This has been a great season of Beverly Hills. Of course, we will be back with more Salt Lake, more interviews, more everything. So make sure you are subscribed, following whatever they call it these days, wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like Uncool. Mention It All is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousmakat.

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