Mention It All - The RHONY Reboot Happened… Now What? Ft. Louis Peitzman

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Dylan sits down this writer and Bravo aficionado Louis Peitzman for a wide-ranging discussing on finales, premieres, and the uncertainty looming on the 2024 horizon. Louis shares his most anticipated upcoming show, and they discuss why the recently concluded RHOC reunion is such a good template for what the format can be. Then, they get into the RHONY finale, and take a broader look at what did and didn’t work in this grand reboot experiment. Lastly, Dylan and Louis chat about this reason of RHOSLC, and what Mary’s presence highlights about the “friend of” archetype. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Betches Media presents Ha ha laugh funny Mention It All A Bravo by Betches podcast We don't say that But now we said it With me, Dylan Hafer We're going to check me both

Hey everyone Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast I am Dylan Hafer And today I am excited to be joined By a first time guest A longtime person that I have followed online He is one of the only reasons To still be on the website

Formerly known as Twitter But he's a writer and a housewives fanatic. Please welcome to the podcast, Lewis Pitesman. Hi, Lewis. Hello. Thank you for getting my last name right. I was like, should I tell him how to pronounce it?

Or should I just assume that he's going to nail it? And you did. So great job. Well, you know, that's what I'm here for. I'm so excited to talk to you because I always see you on, you know, our favorite website, X.com. With all of your, with all of your housewives takes, you are, you stay almost more up to date on Bravo than I do. I saw you tweeting about below deck med, which I haven't even

dipped my toes into yet this season. But tell me about where your Bravo journey originated and what kind of sparked it for you. My Bravo journey. The first Bravo show that I really, well, the first house house that I really watched in earnest was Beverly Hills. That was like the one that I watched from the premiere because that's where I grew up. And I obviously had a very different experience. than anyone on that show, but I was like, this feels like something that I should check out. And then, unfortunately, was hooked, went back and rewatched everything. I feel like I kind of spent, like, several years of my life where my top priority was catching up on Bravo shows and watched every episode of everything.

And then, like, the pandemic was my last chance to, like, catch up on everything. So that's when I watched, like, all of the below decks from start to finish. that was like my pandemic journey. But yeah, I think now I have watched all of it, too much of it, and it's still a big part of my life in terms of like hours logged watching these shows. It is wild. Obviously, everybody who didn't start watching Housewives in 2006 or 2008 or whenever had at some point a massive episodes to get through to be sort of caught up.

But it is wild to think back. For me, that was like 2017, 2018. And I'm like, damn, I was watching so much of this and doing seemingly so little else. Well, it's, yeah, I mean, you have to kind of clear your schedule when you're catching up on one of these shows. Like, there's just so much to get through. I feel like people always ask me now, like, I want to get into housewives. Like, where should I start? And I just, like, don't understand the question.

Because to me, it's like, you have to, like, drop everything else, quit your job and just, like, kind of focus. on getting through every episode of every city. Yeah, my thing that I say to people is that it finds you when the time is right. Like, you kind of can't force the Housewives journey to begin. You have to kind of just be like, one day, I think I'm going to watch Real Housewives of New York. And then you sort of lose track of your life. That's a much more generous piece of advice. Meanwhile, I'm like, quit your job.

You have a new job now, and it's watching Bravo. You're like, so you are going to go on a roller coaster with a woman named Vicky. Exactly. And like, if you don't watch from the beginning, like, how do you understand that arc? Like, you have to see what she's been through, what we've been through as an audience. That is something where I am, for the most part, pretty completest when it comes to watching anything. And so when people are like, I'll be in like a Facebook group or see on Twitter, somebody's like, oh, like, where do I really have to watch all 17 seasons? like where can I start such and such show?

And I'm like, babe, you're respectfully, you're doing it wrong. Yeah, no, you have to commit. You have to commit. Speaking of Beverly Hills, so that's where you started. We have Beverly Hills coming back, Potomac coming back, Miami coming back all within 10 or so days of each other. If you had to rank how excited for those three returns, what's the pecking order for you currently? Okay, so Miami Top. and then Potomac and then like quite a ways below that is Beverly Hills,

which I feel like has been more of a like tough pill to swallow for me over the past several seasons than the other two, which have been like a source of joy in my life. Even though like last season of Potomac I wasn't super into, I just think like that's, it's a lot easier for me to watch that, the Beverly Hills. and then Married to Med is like high above everything else as like the thing that I'm most excited about. I am, I need to catch up on Married to Medicine because I fell off like two seasons ago. I did all the work to catch up on it and I, you know, preach the gospel of Married to Medicine

because it is truly, you know, one of the prime shows on Bravo in the past decade. But I really need to catch up because I can't miss Fadra and, you know, everybody else. that's putting in hard work over there. No, they are like, that is like a top tier cast. And I think that's another one of those shows where it's like, you have to watch from the beginning because those women have been on, most of them have been there the entire time, which is so rare. So to see like what they've been through together and,

and those arcs is like super rewarding. But yeah, I'm really, that's the thing that I'm like most excited about. And then overall, I'm just nervous about why Bravo is putting all of these shows on at the same time. Because what are we getting next year? Yeah, I keep thinking about Dubai is kind of the other shoe that is, you know, theoretically finished being made, but hasn't dropped. And I'm like, that doesn't seem like a big thing that you can, you know, tease for months and months and months because respectfully, I don't think people are super looking out for it.

So I'm like, what are we doing after, let's say, February? Yeah, no, I mean, I think we'll get. it's Dubai next and then Jersey. But like, I don't know what happens after that. I mean, I also wonder if they're kind of banking on Summerhouse with the Lindsay and Carl of it all being more of an event than it has been before. So like maybe that is what we get in like February and March, you know, is like hardcore summer house.

I guess. I mean, Vander Pump theoretically should be ready to go early, you know, Q1. That's right. Yeah. I can't really wrap my mind around Vanderpump Rules being back yet. Like I need a few more, you know, sabbatical months of... I'm absolutely not ready for it. It feels like it was just on.

And I know that like part of that was just because of how much coverage there was. But I feel like I'm wiped out. And I really like, I know that they wanted to keep cameras. They wanted to like kind of keep it moving. They didn't want to take a long break after the reunion. But I need a break. I need to like, you know, decompress more. Well, it probably doesn't help that.

currently about half of the Vanderpump Rules cast is on miscellaneous other reality shows. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw a clip from the Special Forces show that Tom Sandoval is on right now, where it's like, this week is the episode you've all been waiting for. And he's like, I just, I feel, I made a mistake. And it's like, who is this for? I truly don't, for me, like, I don't want to watch Special Forces World's Tuffest Test for anyone, but I especially don't want to watch it to see Tom Sandoval cry some more. Yeah, it's very, it's very weird. I think it started off like when the podcasts were happening when there was like, you know, there were 10,000 podcasts happening like during the height of Scandible and it was like, this is starting to feel like homework for me. I cannot keep up. And now I feel like

I have to also, to get the full story. I have to also watch Dancing with the Stars and special ops, special forces, whatever that show is. Because like, San Deval was supposed to be on Winterhouse and like would have given his side of the story then. I assume. but now I have to watch this like Jojo Siwa show. I mean, no disrespect to her, but like to get to get the full story of Scandival. And I feel like I basically got the story and I'm ready to move on. Or ready to see like how things play out post-Skand-a-Val.

I'm tired of hearing about the actual like Scand-Avall itself. Yeah, I think some of the stuff that's been happening more recently, it feels like it's for people who sort of like don't pay attention to this outside of tabloid coverage. And so to me, like, seeing a bunch of headlines that are like, Raquel says she regrets it or Tom says it was the thing that never happened. It's like, right. Okay. Yeah. Next.

Like, we need the next chapter of the story, not more talking about last year's chapter. Yeah, I mean, I am. Yeah, exactly. And I'm interested in like the new season because I feel like I want to see how those relationships progress. I think people on Twitter slash X are like very quick to jump on like they're talking to Tom again and they're filming with him and like, what? what does this mean? And then, like, you know, Tom made some comment about how he and Ariana are like in a different place than they were.

And it's like, that's like normal real life stuff. That's what people do horrible things. And like, they don't necessarily lose everyone in their life. And sometimes there's forgiveness or like peace or whatever it is. And I, I kind of want to see that play out. And that's the part that I want. Not for everyone to forgive Tom Sandoval, but like to see how they kind of take steps in that direction or, you know, maybe they all hate each other still, but I want to find out. I know. I'm just

hoping it's not a flop season when it does come back. That's like my, that's all I want. Well, it's, it's hard because, like, expectations are so high. I feel like these shows benefit from us feeling that they're going to be not great. I mean, I was so cautious about Orange County, and then it, like, blew me away. So I feel like that's what I need to go into every Bravo show with. Yeah, this, let's get into Orange County. I mean, it just wrapped up the reunion last week. I think myself included most people watching this season were kind of like pleasantly surprised

that it really, it never went downhill for the whole season. It felt like they really had strong momentum. They had multiple storylines that were going on. There were, you know, different kind of interpersonal dynamics that were popping up and developing throughout the season.

And they had, a two-part reunion that for me was one of the more engaging reunions I think we've had on a housewives show recently like yeah do you feel that yeah I mean I love the season I love the reunion I think two-part reunions like this is the trend now I'm super into it because I feel like they just kind of cut out the filler like we're really focusing on like what we need to focus on um everyone kind of brought their A game minus maybe emily but I I feel like it was really it was the show that I really have wanted it to be for so long. And my concern was that, you know, bringing Heather back last seat, the season before,

the most recent one, I thought was, like, not enough to fix things. And it didn't quite work. And she went way too hard on Shannon. It just didn't really come together. And then when they were like, we're bringing Tamara back now, I was like, okay, but Tamara left for a reason. And I don't know that's going to, like, kind of solve this problem either. And then I think adding Tamara back and then adding Jen, like, that creates.

And that created this kind of like perfect cast. And yeah, I mean, I thought it was like a really incredible season. Orange County has been, I think the COVID season of Orange County was so dark in so many ways that it kind of like, I was worried that it would never be good again. And then it like proved me wrong. And that was amazing. I like the way you put that that it feels like this season, Tamara coming back, Jen's casting was almost as important to making this season as good as it was. as Tamara coming back. And that's not to say that Jen has like equaled Tamara's housewives, you know,

prowess or anything yet. But that that was such a crucial piece of the puzzle. And I mean, casting new housewives is really hard. And especially it feels like in the last few years, we've seen a lot of new housewives that just kind of don't stick. And so to have somebody like Jen come in and really sort of round out the picture, anything Taylor also, you know, added something. valuable to the group. It felt like all of the, all of the like different parts came together at the

right time. Yeah, I think, I mean, Tamara can be very single-minded as we, as we have seen. And I think that, like, if Jen had not been there and it had been like a whole season of Tamara trying to destroy Heather, I feel like that would have been monotonous. But it was a good mix of Tamara trying to destroy Jen and Heather. So I feel like we got, you know, it all worked in the end. But also, like, it's important that you like these people on some level, that they like each other on some level, like even if they're fighting, because it just gets really unpleasant when you feel like it's all just animosity and, you know, people fighting that you don't really care about who wins because they're both being nasty. I feel like this was a good, like they seem to actually vibe. So,

you know, the conflict was there. But at the end, like, I love a reunion where everyone is like screaming. And then at the end, they're like, but we love each other. We're friends forever. And it's like, that's what I want. That's like the classic, like, every married to med reunion is like that too. Like I need them all to kind of like end the reunion with, you know, being besties again. Married to medicine reunions are, like, if you are somebody listening to this who hasn't taken the married to medicine plunge, just know that their reunions blow housewives out of the water for the most part.

The fact that they, the level that they can get to and then at the end they're like on their knees crying about. how, you know, how much they value each other in their lives, you know, they're not, they're not getting divorced anymore like they were an hour ago. Like, it, it really is, it shows kind of what the format can be. And I think this season of OC kind of was like a good, you know, signal of like, this is what a really, you know, tight housewives, two-part reunion can be. And I, I hope that we get more of them. Yeah, I think it's also like really telling, the marriage, met reunions, like, you can tell that Andy, like, loves being there and he loves being with them, and I feel like that makes a big difference. And, like, I felt like he was really excited about

the OC reunion, too. Like, I think he knew it was a good season. He seemed like he was, like, actually, even with, you know, Tamara cursing at him, um, he seemed like he was having a good time. And I feel like with, like, weaker, weaker seasons recently, like, he seems like he really does not want to be there. Like, you can kind of tell that, like, he feels over it, the audience feels over it. I feel like the women are over it. Like, it's a very different experience. Yeah, the reunion thing is tough because it is something that has become a mandatory part of most of these shows seasons with, you know, Roney season 13 being exempted for... The exemption, yeah. Due to extenuating circumstances, apparently. But that it is like some of these seasons, it feels like Andy would be

perfectly content just kind of being like, okay, like we had you all and watched What Happens Live. Like, I feel like I kind of did my, did my due diligence here, but that instead we have to sit through three hours of, you know, questions on the couches. And it makes a difference when there really is kind of like that, you know, spark for a reunion. Well, I hope that like, that's why I think the two episode reunion is so much better than forcing all of them to be three parts. Like, that's just like, it's too much. Like a three part reunion should be an event. And, a four-part reunion should be, you know, that was like a once-in-a-lifetime event, I guess.

But it's like there's, you know, even with like Vanderpump Rules last season, I felt like they were really kind of dragging it out because it was a lot of screaming at Rachel and at Sandoval, which is like fine, but it was like, do we need three hours of this? Like, maybe not. So I think two parts is good. I'm maybe even like one episode for a season with not a lot going on.

I feel like, yeah, I mean, we've, it's weird, because some shows like below deck has basically kind of, they do it sometimes, they don't do it sometimes. I feel like when they have a really controversial season, they actually like shy away from doing it. And then of course it's hard because they're always working on other boats so they can't really like be there. Right, like somebody is in like a galley kitchen with spotty Wi-Fi.

Right, but like we're getting them on Watchmenwhip Live. Like we get enough from them that I don't feel like I really need to see them like sit on a Zoom call and like snip each other. I think I get it. So, yeah, but reunions are important, and I obviously feel like the best of them are, you know, really tie things together. So I want them to keep happening. I just think they can maybe get a little bit more flexible with how long they are, how often

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Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope.

It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. So we're getting to the end of Real Housewives of New York this season. Last night was the finale. We got our first look at these women's first reunion. So I'm curious kind of where you fall on that scale. like judging from the season that we've just finished watching, does this feel like maybe it

could be one part? Or do you feel like there's actually some some ground to cover in the reunion? I feel like it could definitely definitely be a one part reunion. I think two is fine. I don't, yeah, I'm not feeling like the most enthusiastic about the reunion. I think that, you know, there are things that I would like to see in terms of like whenever I'm watching, like is the rest of the cast like seeing, they're not seeing this behavior, they're not seeing it all together. So it's like, I think if you watch this season and like see how Aaron was interacting with Jessel,

how Sye was interacting with Jessel, like you might have a different perception than based on what Aaron and and Sye were saying to you directly. But I don't know how much of that we're really going to get in terms of like, is it going to be solved or we're going to move forward? And then it seems like, I mean, it's hard to tell from the, you know, the little trailer, but it seems like,

we're going to really focus on Sai and Bryn being in the fight, which feels like a very last minute thing. I mean, it was literally like the last 10 minutes of the episode. Yeah. Earlier in the episode, they were like, we have a special relationship and we love each other. And then it's like, at the end,

it's like, I want nothing to do with her. And that felt very like last minute conflict that I, you know, I'm not very invested in because it just happened. Right. I think the whole thing about Ubah's relationship, the fact that, that that didn't even come into the conversation until partway through this finale episode and then ended up being kind of the only major conflict at that.

I mean, I guess Jessel and Sire still agreeing not to be best friends, whatever. But the fact that there was this, you know, crumbs of information about Uba's relationship and then suddenly we're acting like saying that there's a guy in Connecticut is equivalent to like sharing someone's social security number. Right. It was like she was acting like they doxed him. Like now he has like paparazzi outside his house. No, it was really, it was really strange. It was a very weird last minute fight.

I do appreciate the fourth wall breaking because I feel like it only really works if the fight ends up being about like who said what on camera because otherwise it makes no sense. But it's also just annoying because it's like again one of these women not wanting to share their personal life on the show, which. is like, you know, kind of one of the main critiques against Jenna, which is like, if you're doing this show, you kind of have to agree to a certain amount of sharing. Right. I think the Jenna and Uba thing, when you zoom out, and it's like there are six women on this cast, it was a 14 episode

season, and we had two different storylines about different women in the cast, not wanting to even acknowledge that they were in some sort of relationship, let alone to, like, show the relationship on camera or to speak openly about it. It's like, I feel like the bar for participation needs to be a little bit higher in terms of sharing something. I mean, I get if Uber is in a situation that is new or is developing, that she might not feel comfortable, you know, asking her partner to come on the show. But it's not that salacious to be like, oh yeah, I think Uba might be seeing someone. Right, right.

I mean, that was what was so weird about it. Like, I totally understand not wanting to film when it's, when it's fresh. But yeah, you can't really avoid the conversation entirely. And it just feels like, I don't know, I mean, I think it was tough because I really do like Uba and Jenna, but like, in many ways they were kind of friends of this season. Like, they weren't really as actively engaged. Jenna certainly, like, had, you know, no real conflict except for, or maybe on the trip and then it kind of dissolved.

I just feel like it's not, I like seeing them on TV. I don't know if that's enough to be a housewife. And I think that they have to figure out, the production has to figure out kind of like, you know, what to do next season, because I assume they want most of them back, but I don't really know how they're gonna handle this. And obviously ratings were not great.

So I imagine they're thinking about some sort of retooling or maybe not, but you know. Yeah, I, I, I, the casting thing is so questionable because I think in my heart of hearts, I'm like, I feel like they might just kind of do the easy thing and like pretty much just bring everyone back and maybe add someone or, you know, maybe somebody's a friend of instead of full time. But like, I don't know if that really is the best way to go about it because, yeah, like when you think about it, like you said how it felt like. and Brin's conflict kind of came out of nowhere in the final minutes of the season.

Similarly, like, Jenna is a little bit, you know, miffed that she didn't hear from Uba that she was dating someone. And she's like, I thought we were so close. Or, you know, maybe it's Aaron. And she's like, I thought we were so, we're closer than sigh, but then are we? Like, it feels like a lot of these relationships still kind of only exist within the framework of like how many scenes have we filmed together. versus like, I don't need all of my housewives friendships to be, you know, deep, long-lasting off-camera bonds. But it feels a little bit like still just, you know, how many times have we been on the call sheet together? That's how much we're friends.

They're co-workers. And it's like, that's obviously true of like many housewives shows. But I, this is one of the worst examples. And I think even now with like side doing interviews being like, we just met, we're just going to need to know each other. Like, we had no con. Like, it's not. I find it hard to believe they couldn't find, maybe not an actual friend group, but people who had some sort of history with each other, because it really feels like,

or maybe they should have filmed longer, maybe they should have, like, something had to change because, like, I think that it's easy for Si to say, I don't want to ever speak to Brin again when they, like, have known each other for five minutes. Or, you know, or the whole Jessel thing, it's like, they just don't like her. Like, they don't, like, they just don't like her, and they're looking for excuses and they're calling her a liar even though they can't think of any actual lies that she's told because they just like don't gel with her and we need more time for there to be an actual history there for that to matter. And I think something that has come up more and more as the season has gone on and as Jessel's

you know, star has risen a bit in the fan community, I think, is that she is kind of the one who has gotten the most love, at least that I come across in the back half of this season. And I'm, I'm curious to see if we will kind of get any unpacking of that at the reunion because I think, and a lot of people think that Aaron and Tsai are sort of probably not very thrilled with the way that this season has been received. Yeah, I mean, I think that that is definitely, I would imagine that is the case that they are not thrilled. I feel like, especially because, like, I felt like Aaron in some ways was set up to kind of be the main character, though it's an ensemble, like, you know, we got her vow renewal and we kind of got, like,

there was a lot of focus on her as sort of like the anchor in many ways. And so I think that she probably saw herself as a star. I think Cy very much is a star in her mind. And I think that, you know, the way that fandom has reacted to the show is not, it's not what I expected and I'm sure it's not what they expected. I do think one of the major issues that I've been thinking about a lot is like a production issue, which is that none of them really had stories. Like none of them, like, and that's something where it's like, yeah, that has to come from their life in some way. But like most, you should be able to like pinpoint on a housewife show like what the storyline is for this season or what their kind of focuses on. And I feel like we didn't really get that for any of them.

I think the ones that had storylines were ones that were like inflicted on them. So like Jessel not having sex with her husband is like something that I don't think she would like to be her storyline. I don't think that. I think that was just like what they decided to latch on to. But it's not like an actual, you can't follow a through line from the start to the end of the season. And that feels like a little bit of a production issue to me. Yeah. And also it just, it didn't feel like we were really spending that much quality time. Like in terms of somebody like, I see people talking about how somebody like, Uber, we don't know anything about her at the end of this season.

And I mean, on paper, I don't think that's super true. I mean, we know stuff about her business and her upbringing and whatever. But I think that maybe people are more pointing to the fact that it's like, we don't really have any momentum in terms of where she's going. I mean, she's talking about how she's not ready for an investor because she doesn't want somebody to do what she wants to do. But then it's like there's no like end point. I mean, in her like end card on the finale, we see like she still doesn't want an investor. Right. Right.

It's like, okay, that was barely a storyline we were following and it still hasn't progressed anywhere. Yeah, I think it's like a lot of it was that it was like, it felt like a lot of the season was like kind of they really knew which like points to hit. They knew like what they had to do and it's like, okay, this is my business. This is my trauma. This is my relationship status. Like I'm going to kind of like go through these things and not as part of like an actual storyline or as part of like really getting to know this person. So it felt a little bit like those moments didn't land as much because they did all share things. But it's like hard to get a full picture of who they are. And I think. think the part of the end was like, you know, the end card about Bryn and like she's freezing her eggs now. It's like we did get talk of that during the season. But like I wouldn't say her story line was about like, you know, does she want a man? Does she want to have a family? Like really focusing on that. It was kind of a thing that she just kind of, it was like peppered throughout and not really structured the way that a housewife season should be. Yeah, I'm, I'm thinking back last year to the first season of Real Housewives of Dup.

by, not because I think about it terribly often, but just because it's the most recent example we have of a new group of women on, you know, together for the first time. And I do feel like that show had a little bit of a better handle on kind of like a group dynamic, just kind of, it felt like there were sort of different sides within the group and people, you know, things were shifting. And I don't know if I care that much about any of those women's personal storylines, but I at least, I felt like there was kind of like a group, you know, trajectory we were following. I think that show was like maybe too produced for me, like it was a little bit too glossy and like I could really see production there. But I do feel like,

that people in Dubai are really rich. I actually, I did know that. There's a lot of glamour. Yeah. And it's, it's surprisingly progressive as long as you don't ever be gay publicly. Um, I think that like, yeah, I felt like on Dubai, they knew each other for 10 minutes, maybe, and it was five minutes on New York. So I was like, but Dubai had like a little bit of a sense of history and like actual, like I felt like the conflicts they had were based in something that happened, whereas on New York, it was like, we just met Jessel, we think she's really annoying and we don't like her. And that was like the entirety of what that fight was, was that they just like didn't like this new person they're forced to hang out with. And so I think,

you need kind of like, I need a context to that. And I do think one of the weird things is like, they did film for weeks with another cast member and there was clearly drama attached to that that they did not want to include in the final season. But it would have been helpful to have a little bit of that. If that was subtext to some of their conflict, like I would have loved to feel some of that and not have it be so like personality based. Yeah, it almost feels like I, I would like to just be able to like go into a room and take a look at like the the lost edit of what would have been the first, you know, chunk of this season. I don't know how much it would be. I don't know really what all they even filmed, but just to kind of get a little bit more of a grounding of kind

of exactly where we started to where we ended versus like maybe we jumped in at like, you know, episode three or something. Right. I mean, I think with like Salt Lake City and correct me if I'm wrong, I believe they filmed like for like a lot of it. And then they'd scrapped that and they started over again basically. But like those women were a little bit. Some of them actually did know each other before. But they also had more of like they already had these dynamics kind of set by the time we got to episode one because they had filmed like another season before that basically. Yeah, Salt Lake was really interesting because they did.

They switched production companies midway through. But then also I know this from reading Heather's book like several months. before they started filming the season, they shot like a sizzle reel, essentially, where they were filming some scenes together and some solo scenes. And I think both of those components probably did lead it to feel a little bit more established

and lived in as first season franchise versus like, like you said, I mean, it really feels like there were no kind of existing bonds within this group. And I mean, Salt Lake, it's been a journey the last few years, but certainly I think they've, you know, they've persevered and now it's going well. It's so funny with Salt Lake City because it's like to find out that Heather and Angie K, who will always be known as Angie K, regardless of any other Andy's on the show,

that they've known each other since they were, what, 15? And yet, like, Angie K feels the most out of place of anyone on that show, even though she has, like, the longest tie to anyone on the cast. Like, that's just very funny to me. But also, like, history is not enough sometimes. It's not the only thing that gives you kind of, that context. But yeah, I think that you need to have something more to work with. I don't know why with New York they didn't work on casting two friends, like casting some, you know, there's, there's no

relationships in there that feel organic and probably like Jenna would always feel like a cool aunt that is like not in their, you know, not in their friend group, out in their age group. But like, they had to have, there had to be people who were like a little bit friendlier beforehand. Yeah, it does a lot to even just have two or three people within a cast. who can say, not even necessarily that they're, you know, best friends going in, but just like, oh, we've met each other socially for 10 years or we ran in the same, or I always used to see her at parties, like thinking about people like, you know, Lisa and Meredith have this, you know, history that goes back. And then Lisa and Heather remembered each other from college or maybe didn't remember each other. And that was, you know, you know, good time girls. And then Whitney and Heather were cousins, but they didn't really know each other. but also like... Right. They clearly met through the show,

but then they were like, we're cousins. So it, you know, it worked. Right. And so even if none of those are like, on paper super meaningful relationships,

it kind of gives you just, uh, it like decorates the room a little bit. So then you feel like you're already in a home versus just like, you know, an Airbnb that was rented out yesterday. Yeah. I mean,

I will give the New York ladies credit. They are constantly hanging out now. So I feel like whether that's a place, for another season or they genuinely like each other. Like they clearly are now establishing like real friendships or Instagram friendships, whatever it is. So that like ideally next season and maybe this is the reason to bring them all back, you will have a little bit more of that natural history.

Yeah. It is like they're doing a good job of the social media game where it's like, yeah, I believe that for the most part, they're like still in contact and it's not like they're just like, okay, I'll see you at the reunion. And then at BravoCon, I guess, like they're talking, they're commenting on each other's pictures. It feels like Jenna Lyons has not deleted all their numbers from her phone. So that's a win.

Good for her. I did see, I did see someone say that it felt like Jenna Lyons on Watch Hopens Live last night was like a goodbye to her being on Housewives, which like I think we'll have to see. I do understand that perspective, though. And I think it's a little bit of like an existential question for this reboot going forward. If you can kind of keep someone who feels that removed from what it means to be a housewife. Yeah. And I think what it means to be a housewife is something that has changed over the years is always in flux a little bit. But at least right now, it feels like it requires just a little bit more kind of buy-in than maybe somebody like Jenna is really willing to or has a reason to offer.

That it's like, you know, she got, I think she got a lot of exposure. her from this season. She certainly expanded her kind of awareness of the Jenna Lyons brand. And if that's all she wants, then I think that's okay. But also then maybe she doesn't need to be a, you know, a five-season housewife. Right. I would say like make her a friend of, but like would she show up if she weren't part of the main cast? Like, is she really going to go on a trip with them? Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time. College students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College deal, everything you need, to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs.

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Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Try them all now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine. Copyright 2026, the Coca-Cola Company. Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company. We've had some interesting friend-def situations on Bravo of late. I think Mary Cosby right now on Salt Lake is kind of, it seems like she's very polarizing in her friend of role. I think personally I'm souring on her more and more as we go. I'm curious,

how do you feel about Mary? I love Mary season one. I quickly turned on Mary. I've never really been a fan because of the fact that she does not like any of them, does not want to hang out with them, like, you know, says a lot of things that I really don't love. And I think that this season has kind of felt like having her, she's like doing, like, what do they call that show with Captain Lean and Kate, like couch talk? Couch talk. She's doing that recently. She's like watching the show with us and like commenting on it, but like kind of in a nasty way about how bad people look. But like, that's her role right now. And I think that that's like wearing very thin. and when I heard she was coming back,

I was confused because she so clearly did not want to be part of the show. And then when the first photos came out of her sitting in the sprinter van, while they were all in the club, I was like, this is what I was worried about. Like she's not actually going to be part of this cast. And I don't know how much longer she filmed or how much more of the season she'll be in, but it seems like I just doesn't seem like she's actually interested in having a friendship with anyone on the cast or doing their events.

Totally. And it's especially when you're a friend of, I mean, obviously you have less obligations, I guess, to be there. But then it really does beg the question, if you don't have a contractual obligation to be there and you don't want to be there and none of these women are like begging you to come at a certain point, it's like, why truly are you on this bus right now? I thought, I mean, I thought that like Taylor did a good job in terms of like how much she was on the show. Like she was in. a lot of it. She wasn't in every episode, but she was in many episodes. I do think there's a danger. Like with Taylor, she had some conflict with Heather early on, and then it kind of like, there wasn't really anything else going on with her toward the end of the season. But I do feel like that amount of episodes is like a good, you know, I like that. I think it's harder. There's like shows like Atlanta where a friend of is, or Miami, especially, where a friend of is essentially just a cast member, you're paying less. So I don't know, yeah, it's definitely like

a tough line to walk, but I think whatever Mary's doing is not a good friend of situation to me. Totally. Like there has to be a believable, it has to be believable that you would be invited personally to all the events, not just as like a cast blanket thing of like, well, everyone's here. I, I, whoever started the conspiracy theory that Mary thinks Meredith is production is, that's like my favorite thing that people have been saying online that like she just thinks that like Meredith is a producer and that's why she talks to her. I choose to believe that is true. She thinks Meredith is like drawing up her contract.

Yeah, like she'll ask Meredith questions like that you would ask production about like logistical. It just, it just feels like there's, I don't know, Mary's like very much in her own world and I feel like a lot of them are. Like a lot of them are kind of like fun aliens. Like I think, you know, Lisa is often, often says and does things that I'm like, you're kind of an alien, but in a very appealing way. but Lisa also has real relationships with the other women and like wants to be there. So that makes a difference. And I think I think I've talked about this in the last couple of weeks that I feel like maybe one of the things going into this season is there were a lot of questions about how are they going to do this after the all the gen, you know, noise and chaos over the last couple of years. And it's been such a strong season so far that the the Mary Cosby side show isn't really necessary.

in the way that maybe they were worried that they might need it. Right. We have the NGK's side show that we're somehow watching. We have Monica's mother yelling in the middle of a nursing home about not wanting to walk in on her daughter having sex. Like that's enough. Yeah, no, absolutely. There's plenty going on there.

I mean, it's hard to know. They've circled so much with casting that they definitely probably, they probably did not know how much Monica would bring. And I think NGK is, like a bizarre, like I have no idea what she's doing there, but like at this point I'm kind of like morbidly curious to keep watching. Like there's something going on that I do find interesting, even if it's like baffling to me. The trampoline with eyes thing, I like have not been able to stop thinking about because like even kind of getting what she meant maybe, it's just,

it's such a like freakish thing to say that I'm obsessed with it. I do love it. Like she's so calculated and like trying so hard with all the women. And then at the the same time is like, the only thing that matters to me in life is to be there for Sean and Electra. And it's like, girl, the only thing that matters to you in life is getting this snowflake contract. The thing that matters to her is making a reference to like Greekness or Greek culture in everything. She says, my favorite is when they were going to pop champagne and she was like, I only know how to do it with Uzo. And I was just like, what? Like, I mean, she's, she's, she's a real treasure. I don't stand her. But I like, I would consider.

understanding her if she keeps us up all season, just by virtue of the fact that, like, no one has been more awkward on a housewife show. Well, the Greek word of the day is opa and Lewis, it's been such a pleasure having you here. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Yeah, tell everyone where they can find you. You can find me on Twitter slash X at Lewis Pitesman. I'm also on letterboxed. I use that the most these days for movies. And, you know, I don't think you want to follow me anywhere else. Just those too. Keep it simple.

Thank you so much, Lewis. And thank you everyone for listening. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mentioned at all is produced by Dylan Hafer,

Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousa McCat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico. Social media by Dylan Hafer. Guest booking by Dylan Hafer and Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars. Catch the Jonas Brothers return to the Yamava Theater stage on April 30th,

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