Mention It All - The Rinna Reckoning Ft. Sami Sage (RHOBH)

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

Sami Sage joins Dylan for the RHOBH deep dive we need right now. They dig through the Kyle/Kathy/Rinna meeting, and debate what Rinna’s departure would mean for the franchise. They also discuss Erika’s therapy session, and how they feel about Sutton’s softening toward her. Later, they get into the Dubrow cheating rumors, and why having an “arrangement” on reality TV is so risky. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All new drinks are now at McDonald's, with refreshers like the strawberry watermelon refresher, and the mango pineapple refresher with popping boba to crafted sodas like the Spriteberry blast, with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire? Try them all now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine. Copyright 2026, the Coca-Cola Company. Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca-Cola Company.

Betches Media presents Ha ha, laugh, funny Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, both. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast.

I am Dylan Hafer, and today I am excited to be joined once again by a favorite guest of mine. She is a co-founder of Betches, and maybe she needs to examine why she has a black heart. Please welcome. Sammy. Sage. Hi, Sammy. Hello, hello. I do need to examine why I have a black heart and why I love why I stick with Beverly Hills despite like the whole show is like edging. The whole thing.

It's like you're edging the like reality of what actually happens that you want to find out. They never like fully reveal what you want them to reveal. It is kind of funny. I feel like there was a time maybe around the the Lucy Lucy Apple. juice situation where it kind of felt like Beverly Hills was changing directions into this recipe of there's always something happening beneath the surface that we're never going to quite get 100% into, but we are going to talk about it for 10 episodes in a row. And there is maybe that that edging quality. Like you're never quite going to get the full payoff.

But it felt like at one point that that was kind of a new phenomenon, that it was a new phenomenon, that it was like, okay, in the past maybe there's been, there's been more explosive moments or we've gotten kind of a resolution, whereas now we're in this cycle where this is probably like the fourth season in a row where it does feel like there's been kind of this one narrative that hasn't necessarily led to any place of conclusion. And like you said, I still, I can't look away. I can't stop talking about it. I can't stop thinking about it. It still is giving us hours and hours of content, but you do sort of stop to think you're like, okay, so if it's been four seasons in a row of this, what actually has happened? He's never going to date me at this point. You know,

that's what you're thinking. The ring is never coming. It's not. It's not. Not even commitment. But, okay, one thing, yeah, to your point, once, I don't know if you were aware that, like, the fandom got, went down a collective spiral or, like, not all of the fandom, but like a large amount of people went down, like, this collective spiral over whether Rina had, like, planted the 818 tequila at Kitamo Sabe. If they had, like, if they, like, really had the tequila or if Rina had, like, thought about, like, bringing it to, whatever. There was like all this speculation whether, about whether like the 8-1a tequila was really supposed to be at the bar or if Rina just like brought it up to start shit. Either way, she brought it up to start shit. Whether like, you know. Right. I think you can't underestimate the level to which Lisa Rina is hyper aware that she is not just on camera, but is creating a television show.

where she wants to come off as the one kind of pulling all the strings and the one in the position of power. And I think that, you know, she's been on this show for a long time now. Some seasons she has been more successful than others. But I think this episode was really interesting because I think we sort of, it's like in The Wizard of Oz or like in Wicked when you see when you see that it's just like a random dude. A little man. A random dude behind the curtain. And there's all these levers and buttons, and it's not actually magic. And there's a little bit of that with Rina that you see Kathy and Kyle having this sort of

tender moment with each other as sisters and this kind of emotional tata tete that they needed to have. And then Rina comes in and thinks she's in a position of power. And you can tell that she's. not really getting what she wants out of either of them because she wants she wants Kathy to be begging for forgiveness and she wants Kyle to be screaming at Kathy and those two aren't going to do that. Right. It's like, Bryna, what is your fetish with the Richards Hilton sisters and generally interfering in their relationships? Because here's the thing. The question, there's kind of like two

questions that's like, do you believe what Bryna said happened? And like, I'll be honest, I'm I believe what Rina said happened, but that doesn't mean that I feel that Rina isn't using it to stir shit. Right. Right. That there are many layers to this whole situation. And having questions about Rina in general doesn't mean that you don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. Because like you, I believe some version of what she says happened in Aspen. Do I believe every single moment of what she's saying?

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't know. Nobody was there. We're never going to have that concrete answer. And so it seems a little bit pointless to split hairs about was she really pounding on the walls? Did she really say X specific thing about Doreet? You know, like it's kind of pointless at a certain point to get that granular.

But I do believe that there is more than Kathy is willing to admit. and that Rina kind of has a root cause for why she has these issues with Kathy. But then when you get to the aftermath of it, and Rina is kind of carrying on in this way where she's like, she's wearing the same shirt. I'm just, what am I? It's like a mind game. And I'm like, I don't really know that Kathy is thinking that deep.

She's doing her like, I got the shirt at Ponderosa. Howdy, part of their cart right city. I'm like, oh, first. of all, what's happening? But also, I don't think Kathy is like, let me put on this piece t-shirt that I happen to be wearing in Aspen when Rina and I were alone because I know this is just going to be like the shining and Rina's going to be like, what's happening with the shirt? Like, I don't really believe that Kathy is doing that. Right. Like, okay, here's the thing. I believe, I do believe Rina's whole description of the original scenario. Like, I believe that Kathy Hill

had an absolute shit fit. And so that everything she says, like, I don't feel that she needed to necessarily exaggerate that. But if Rino was so, like, shook up by this whole thing, no mention of that on the plane home the next day where Kathy was not there, she's just acting like totally normal on the plane home. And then she gets to Crystal's birthday and she has her freak out. And it's just sort of like, if I had witnessed Kathy Hilton's tantrum, I would be talking about it. out of the next morning, not like holding back for like a few days or whatever, how long it took. And then I would.

And, and, and then like so freaked out that you have to leave a party a few days later. It just doesn't really make sense. And then if you want to talk about Kathy's behavior, well, I'll let you respond to that. And then we can talk about Kathy's behavior when she arrived at Kyle. Well, it feels like Renna kind of the initial situation happened in Aspen. and then Rina needed a couple days to go home and sort of storyboard what she wanted to happen for the rest of the season, where it's like, okay, so Aspen was one thing, and I was traumatized and triggered. But I, what's really going to trigger me even more is Kathy showing up to Crystal's birthday party and acting like nothing happened.

And who in their right mind could act like nothing happened? And it's like, well, first of all, that's what happens all the time on these shows. in real life. People show up after doing something bad and act like nothing happened. That's how people act. And then it's like she's using the initial incident, but then also Crystal's birthday, as this like fuel to be reignited about everything that happened in Aspen. And now she needs to go around to each member of the cast and talk about how horrific it was. And then now she needs to have the sit down with Kathy. And I mean, at the sit down with Kathy, it really does feel like Rina has a plan of attack that is just, she's not going to be deterred by any apology

Kathy makes, any emotional response from Kyle or Kathy. Like, she is on the war path. And I think we see that kind of glitching a little bit. Yeah, she needs to keep her, let's be honest, everyone's talking about how Rina should be like off the show. I'm sure she's aware of that. And she knows that she has to like keep pushing. this conversation so that it can be more explosive and iconic.

And then she will be there for it, having been maybe even the cause of something that happened. Yeah. I think with Rina, it's always, it's tough when you get into the place where the fans are calling for any type of really polarizing housewife to just be fired and to be removed from the show. Because it's always going to be that catch-22. of do I like this person? Maybe not. Do I, would I want to be friends with them? Probably not. Do I,

are they sometimes tough to watch or can be grading or whatever? Maybe. But would the show be better off without their presence? That's really the question that I think a lot of the time the answer is no, these shows need the people that are going to get in there and really stir shit up. And I think Rina, sometimes it falls flat. Sometimes it's, it doesn't work out the way she wants it to. But I do sort of feel like what would the driving force in this group be if they just deleted her from the equation? And I'm not sure it would be better. Well, I think the issue is not necessarily Rina only.

It's like Rina's placement within this Fox Force 5 and there are sort of tacit agreements about what they will and won't speak about. And so I think people see, I mean, I think that Renna at this point almost feels like she's run her course because she never puts in her own drama. She only tries to like feed off of other people's drama. And then there's obviously her four friends or three friends who are off limits. So if they were to take Renna out, they would have to replace, they would have to essentially break up that group of women so that they can't like form effective alliances to like manipulate the plot as effectively.

which is kind of what they have been doing since Lucy Lucy, Apple Juicy. Yeah, I think you're right that she does kind of thrive on other people's drama. And I think this scene with Kyle and Kathy really kind of brings that into sharp focus, maybe more than it ever has been, that she is so focused on inserting herself in this sister narrative, not just, of course, if she was the one there, with Kathy in Aspen, she has a right to have feelings and opinions about that situation that

she was in. But it's not just that. It's that she is literally telling Kathy that she has to do XYZ because she said this about her sister. And then even more so after Kathy leaves at the end, Rina is telling Kyle, well, you know, I think you guys really need to work on that relationship still because, you know, maybe Kathy is saying it, but I don't know if it's coming from a genuine place. And, you know, I just don't know what it is about Kathy that she just can't support you. And it's like, get the, get the fuck out. Like you, you weren't even the, I thought the conversation that Kyle and Kathy had before Vina got there actually seemed like kind of an important breakthrough for the two of them where Kyle was able to really fully express how she feels like Kathy hasn't necessarily. been there for her and been kind of a supportive sister. And I think that's something that clearly affects Kyle a lot. And obviously it's going to take work. It's going to take time.

We'll see whether that is kind of carried through to fruition. But Rina getting in the middle of it right after that conversation has happened, surely isn't going to help matters. Right. I mean, that was obviously like a production-driven thing to have Rina come after the two of them had their conversation. But like, so, okay, let's talk about that conversation. So how did you feel about like Kathy in that conversation?

Because I don't know, I felt she came in and she was like so, she was like putting on a performance. Like she first like grabs a flower out of Kyle's. I thought that was just so fucking weird. Like she grabbed a Kyle out of a flower out of Kyle's own flower bed and then like presents it to her. And she like does this weird Ponderosa line, which to me seemed like it must have been like an inside joke from their mother and or like their childhood or something. And they like proceed. I don't know. It doesn't feel like Kathy like Kathy feels like a shell that can't be cracked to me.

So good. So good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom rack stores now and up to 60% off. Stock up and save on the brands you love like Vince. Sam Edelman, frame and free people. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free.

Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Girl, winter is so last season. And now Springs got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the front. patio sundress, those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping

from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear up on that envelope. It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. I think one thing that I was thinking about when you're talking about kind of this performance that she's putting on, based on last season and the begin her sort of first few moments on this season, it seems clear that Kathy kind of had an idea of how she was going to portray herself on Housewives. She took a long time to be willing to come on the show. She clearly is only willing to do it on her terms for the most part. This season, we saw her sit out the first half of the season, reportedly because she was

holding out on a contract for more money. So she is not, she's not one of those people on Housewives who is just kind of like, yep, I'll be there, put me in, coach, I'll do whatever you need me to do, I'll play whatever role, I'll film with whoever. She has a very specific idea of what she, how she wants this to go for her. And I think in this post-aspin, I guess starting in Aspen, we're seeing her kind of be forced to play along in a way that I don't think she necessarily really felt like she was signing up for. And so I think this, when she shows up and is doing this kind of performance, and same when Rina shows up and she's kind of doing it again, it's like, I think she's kind of

trying to cling to this idea that it's like, I'm still fun, kooky Kathy, and we're going to sit down and she kind of has her prepared statement a little bit. And, you know, we see Kyle and her kind of break through that in a productive way. And then we see Rina break through that in a way that I think was not productive. But I think with Kathy in both of those kind of halves of the of this, you know, event, it's like we're seeing her actively have that kind of image ripped out of her hands a little bit. And I think, I think it's got to be tough for her. And we do see her getting emotional.

I think with Rina, she really is trying to sort of like grasp onto that of kind of trying to get her to stop it. Yeah, I mean, I think Kathy, everything that you're saying about like, you know, she wanted to contrive her image, I think she really struggles to be like one of the many. If you know what I mean? Like she can't just kind of be like one of the wives, an equal player, on equal footing without like having to sort of feel like she's more important. Which, sure, I believe that about Kathy Hilton. But I also feel like maybe it's a little unsaid that the fact that she didn't show up. up till halfway through the season because she wanted more money. If I'm her castmates, they're probably all like a little annoyed by that.

And they're probably not as willing to like put up with her shit and like play along and make her seem, make, and like allow her to play this cookey Kathy role that she wants to achieve. Because they're like, I'm not helping this bitch out. Like she, you know, she's not like part of this team kind of, you know. Yeah, I think we've seen that, uh, it happened in a, other times on Bravo shows too, where there is kind of a simmering resentment maybe of people who don't seem like they're sort of team players. And I think with these shows, something that we don't, it's rarely talked about on the show because it is a very fourth wall kind of thing,

is that even if you are friends in real life or even if you have issues in real life, you are a cast of people, a group of women, a team. in a way, and your goal as a group is to produce a compelling season. And I think with Beverly Hills, sometimes it feels like people are maybe not getting that memo a little bit, not understanding that assignment. Whereas if you look at a show like Potomac, I think that is the shining example to me of everyone in this group really understands the overarching goal. And obviously there's going to be drama.

we need that. Obviously there's going to be stressful moments. We need that. But at the end of the day, everybody is showing up and clocking in and making sure that they're going to get, you know, 18 to 22 episodes a year. And it's going to be something fresh and something exciting. And I think with Kathy coming in halfway through, there definitely probably is a feeling within the group that it's like, well, we didn't get nearly as much mileage out of Kathy as we did. last year. So now maybe we're going to make her carry her weight a little bit more in terms of the drama. Like, you're going to have to get your hands a little dirty. Yeah, I mean, to your point, Potomac is, I think, like, the best at being a housewife show, if you know what I mean.

Like, you could have your opinion on what is the best franchise. I think they might be the best, but, like, they're the best at housewives thing. And Kathy is probably, and I would say Diana's probably one of the worst people at housewivesing. And Kathy comes as a close second. What did you think of Kathy's, like, excuse to Kyle for why she had done this, which was the altitude and too many drinks and she was overtired and, like, yeah, but like, the things that Lynn is saying she said are, like, so much deeper than, like, the altitude and a few drinks.

Yeah, I think that's very, um, sort of grasping at the straws of hoping that this will go away because it is a very like, oh, you know, this and that kind of excuse that it's like, I was tired. I was drinking a little too much. I was, I was stressed. You were picking on my outfit. It's like, okay, if you're actually going to have a real excuse, you got to pick one. You can't just say six things and be like, ah, yeah, it was a day. Like, I think, I think Kyle, to her credit, knows that she deserves a better explanation slash apology than that. And even, you know, we see her saying in the confessional, she's like, I appreciate the things that Kathy is saying to me now about thinking I'm talented

and being proud of me and all of this stuff. But meanwhile, what I'm hearing that she said in Aspen is the complete opposite. And so it's not that easy to just be like, you said you're proud of me. Thank you so much. That means a lot to me. Like, it does. But you still have in the back of your mind, two weeks ago you said I was like the worst person on the planet.

She also sounded like she was totally full of shit when she was saying that. Like nothing genuine, nothing. I didn't feel anything that Kathy said in that conversation was genuine at all. It all just felt like she was a kid being forced to apologize for like something she had done and she knows that the cameras are on her. So she wants to like try a little bit, but it didn't feel none of it felt genuine to me. Yeah, I would say the one,

the one takeaway maybe is that because Kyle was able to express kind of what she feels like she wants and needs from Kathy, that hopefully moving forward, maybe Kathy can keep that in mind and do a little better, even if the words feel a little hollow, it's kind of like show me, don't tell me. And, you know, maybe moving forward, then she'll call and ask how Kyle's life is going instead of just venting about what the lady did, you know, that kind of thing.

But then I do think when they're talking with Rina later, it does, again, feel like we're getting a little bit of a performance from Kathy. And when she's saying, when she's getting emotional and kind of angry crying and being like, people that have known me for 30 years know that I don't, I don't do that and I don't have issues with people. And I'm like, I don't actually know that I believe that. Because we, like you, like we've talked about, we haven't seen this side of Kathy on the show before. But there have always been a lot of whispers and things out there kind of about her maybe having a temper or being tough to work with or having, you know, if she doesn't get her way, it's not going to be

pretty, things like that. And so I believe that maybe Rina hasn't seen this side of Kathy before Aspen, but it is kind of, it doesn't really ring true when she's like, everybody in my life would tell you that I have never once had a temper. And it's, I don't, I don't think that's true. the whole book about how that's false. There's a whole book, Kelsey Hilton, which is definitely just not say, she does not have a temper.

That is not her reputation at all. I definitely find it. Okay, question. You know how she was, like, obsessed with hearing black or white by Michael Jackson? Why is Kathy so obsessed with Michael Jackson?

Can I ask that question? They went to high school together. I know. But, like, she's very... I know. I know. I mean, the Michael.

Jackson of it all is very strange because, I mean, I, like, Crystal, I love you, but it's like this, it's like a losing battle. It's, like, playing Billy Jean at a party is not, like, necessarily problematic in and of itself. And also with this group of women, it's like, Kathy Hilton just wants to fucking hear Billy Gene. There's a Michael Jackson musical on Broadway that's, like, selling out every performance right now. and like feel how you do about that. I certainly have complicated feelings about it myself,

but I'm not like so scandalized when I hear a Michael Jackson song playing at CBS. Honestly, I'm like, this is a great song. But Billie Jean is also one of my favorite Michael Jackson songs. I will say that. But regardless, first of all, none of us can hear the music because we don't have the license to it. So it's like you're arguing over. you're arguing over something that we don't even hear. So it's, yeah, I mean, that's a typical Beverly Hills thing.

Just like not understanding like what is not going to translate. But yeah, I don't know. I don't think that's Kathy's reputation at all. And if you watch Paris in Love, you know, or not that, what was the documentary about her? Oh, the, I am Paris. I am Paris, yeah. Yeah, and Paris in love.

You watch those two. Like, Kathy Hilton, I don't think, get some impression you get of Kathy Hilton. Like, it's just... No. I think she's somebody who has become very accustomed to having things done how and when and the way that she likes and isn't used to really being told no. And I think in this situation, it's kind of equivalent to her being told no by Rina and the rest of the cast that people are like, no, you're not just going to get your

your easy way and ride off into the sunset, and we're not just going to, like, cheers to your tequila every, every opportunity you want us to. But I don't know. I do think it's interesting, like, how Kyle is telling Kathy that Rina and Erica are, like, trained assassins, and she needs to kind of be careful how she deals with

them. I'm like, I mean, I don't know that, I mean, Erica's not really doing anything with Kathy right now. It's like, Erica's two. focused on herself to really give a shit about Kathy. Yeah. Erica's more likable when she fades into the background and talks to her therapist. It was, yeah, seeing Erica talk to her therapist this episode, I'm glad that she's talking to a therapist.

I do kind of, I'm curious the tone of if they have normal sessions that aren't being filmed, kind of whether they go a little bit deeper because it's always funny when you have like a therapy thing that's filmed on Bravo. But the fact that Erica says she's been doing this regularly and they're kind of just scratching the surface of, you know, the thing with your divorce is that of your morning, both the loss of your marriage and the loss of who you thought you were married to. And it's like, if this isn't session one, I'm a little bit confused what you've been talking about prior to this.

Right. Especially given that like it's all in the public domain and you don't need to start from like, the first day of explaining your life. I mean, there's no way to know that. Like, I think if she is even seeing a therapist, this might not be the therapist. Right. And, or they might have like engineered a session that or a conversation. You know, they're not going to like film her real therapy session.

You know, they're going to just say, this is the therapy session we're filming and like have a conversation that would make sense to the audience. Yeah. I mean, if she's been taking antidepressants, I assume she's been in some kind of, Oh yeah, she, I mean, legally, she's supposed to have, supposed to. But, you know, I mean, yeah, who doesn't want to be in that? It is kind of funny, though. The therapist is like, they seem to have a rapport.

Yeah, and like I. That must be her real therapist. Both in the therapy session and then later when she has her Popeye's lunch with Sutton, she's finding in every conversation a way to throw in how she deserves compassion to, because with the therapist she's like, you know, well, it's hard. The therapist is like,

oh, these people have been wrong. And she's like, but you know what? And this might be a hot take. I feel like I was wronged too. And it's like, Erica, you do? You feel that way? What? That's surprising.

And then later when she's with Sutton, she's like, yeah, the thing about, I have a word that triggers me. And it starts with a V. And she's like, and she's like, and Sutton's like, well, I just think you could just a little bit of, a little bit of compassion. And Erica's like, yeah, I want compassion too.

And it's like, she just can't, she can't stop herself from any time the conversation remotely goes to this place. She has to throw in the fact that she was wronged to. She wants compassion to. She, it's like, we know, we know that you feel like you were, had the wool pulled over your eyes and were bamboozled and whatever. And the fact that she still feels like it is somehow necessary or helpful to say that every time it comes up in conversation. It's like truly what is the strategy here?

Because we all know. We all know that you feel that way. And it just makes you look like so petty to over and over and over again be like, and remember, I was wronged too. It's like, okay, okay, we get it. Well, the funny thing is that like she could have. I think had a valid claim to that and could have been perceived as a V word. I think she could have,

I think I actually think she ceded her own chance at that, to be honest, by how she acted. Because if she had like been more, ultimately like there was two questions last season. Did she know? And how will she act based on what's going on? And the did she know question is like unanswerable.

technically. But the how did she act question is something that was very much in her control. And she acted very badly in a way that did not make her seem at all sympathetic. And the truth is that like she kind of, I hate to blame her, I hate to be blame, but she like, if you even consider her a victim. But like she doesn't, if she had acted more sympathetically and like more caring, about the people who were actually stolen from. I think that people would perceive her as someone who was wronged. But that's not how she like set it up.

Right. It's like she's trying to shift the paradigm. Start by getting back the earrings. Right. Like she's trying to shift to the paradigm about this after a year and a half of going very strong in one direction. She's trying to kind of change the narrative and give us a new,

have a new talking point and it just is falling flat because like you said, she spent the whole last year going so hard in one direction and it's like honestly after watching you like yell at Sutton

and like threaten her last season I get that you're having a complicated situation and there's going to be a lot of emotions and stuff but you have kind of you haven't done anything to like engender sympathy from the public for you.

And I think that like you said, there could have been a time when that was more the vibe. But during that time, she was instead focused on yelling at anyone who dared to ask her a question or to read an LA Times article. And it's like, yeah, like, okay, you've kind of established what the vibe is

and the vibe is not a woman done wrong. Right. She spent like so many months saying that it wasn't, it wasn't even true. So it's like, is it, it, it was it not true? Or are you the victim? Like it just so it. Yeah, like she didn't, she didn't like admit to it early enough to garner any sympathy. I do think it's interesting.

I'm curious your thoughts now about Sutton seems to be invested now in building back this relationship with Erica. And I understand from a group standpoint, like we've talked about with the Fox Force Five, why it's tough to have somebody like Erica just be 100% against you. But it does seem like Sutton is really now putting in effort to build something with Erica. And I'm curious, what are your thoughts on maybe why she's doing that or whether it's kind of a good strategy? Honestly, like, I think Sutton's just sort of like an easy, forgiving person. Like, I don't see Sutton as someone who, Sutton doesn't appear to me to thrive off of drama or to enjoy having any tension in her radius.

So I feel like she is able to sort of be like, you know, I have compassion for Erica, you know, and like lean into the fact that like this woman actually was pretty wronged by her husband. and, you know, maybe we're sort of in a different phase of things. And maybe I've been proven right. And she doesn't need to, like, keep, like, berating her. And, like, I just think Sutton is sort of a nice person. Like, I don't think she gets any pleasure. I don't think she got any pleasure out of, like, exposing Erica.

I don't think that was, like, a vindictive fun thing for her. And look, they do have a lot in common. Like, they're both from the South. It is a different, they're living in L.A. they both, you know, started off with less than they ultimately ended up having. And I'm sure they have like, they're similar ages. Like, you know, why not just? They're both divorced, you know, they have older kids.

I do think with Sutton last season, I think she was really, she needed to feel like she had enough answers before she could really have sympathy or empathy. or empty for Erica. And I think this season, it feels like she kind of concluded her investigation and got sufficient info to feel like comfortable with the fact that Erica didn't know about all of this stuff. Of course, she would like her to show more compassion for the victims and would like her to handle certain things differently. But maybe feels fine with the idea that it's like, I'm not friends with this total

cartoon villain woman. It's somebody who was caught up in this bad situation and maybe hasn't handled it flawlessly but is kind of just a wounded person at the end of the day. And I think last season, Sutton really just needed that sort of... She needed that, like, confirmation. And unfortunately, because of kind of the whole group dynamic, it put her in a really awkward position

to be the one who kind of felt like she needed that information. But this season, she's like, I'm fine with Erica. Like, obviously I want the victims to get their whatever. And there's still going to be a legal process. And that is what it is. But yeah, like, she's not really that invested at the end of the day in, like, taking Erica down. And I don't think she ever was.

I think she just needed her questions answered. Yeah, that's not Sutton's vibe. And I give Erica credit for, like, not holding a grudge and allowing the show to go there. because that's actually, I think that's what I see the two with them in a scene together, I'm like, this is more exciting to me than a scene with like Derita Rina because there will be some, whatever is going to happen here, the conversation will be real. Yeah. And I think with Erica and Sutton earlier in the season and certainly at the end of last season,

it didn't feel like we were ever going to get to this point where they were going to be even civil with each other, let alone friendly and hanging out. And I think it does feel like this is kind of the type of growth and dynamic movement that maybe this show lacks a little bit. Because you have this Fox Force friend group and people are so sort of stubborn about who they're not going to have an issue with or who is going to be their bestie, it makes it hard for things to kind of be dynamic within the group. Whereas I think on a show like Salt Lake City, maybe it's almost a little too far in the opposite direction that it feels like there are no solid relationships. And it's like you never know from season to season like who's going to be mortal enemies and who's going to all of a sudden be bosom buddies. And in Beverly Hills, it's like we've been a little too stuck with the friendships. And I think Erica and Sutton getting closer is kind of an exciting development.

it. Yeah, I agree. I think that, like, there's more room to put add people into that group of the cast if they do want to get rid of Rina. Yeah, and I think with it's because it had kind of felt for a little while, like you have your Fox Force and then you have Sutton, Garcel, kind of crystal, along with them. And it's like, that's, it's just depressing when you have sort of two halves of the cast

and it feels like you're in a, you know, Romeo and Juliet situation. And it's like I don't want it to feel like it's a life or death scenario when you're hanging out with somebody from the opposite side of the group. And so it makes me happy to think about the idea of maybe future Beverly Hills where things are a little bit more fluid within the group. Because I think those are the kinds of things where you really have an exciting, you know, potential for what's going to be. going to happen within the group and you don't know who's going to be getting along and who's going to be having issues and who's newly friends with each other. And that's like, that's the spice of life. Yeah. Save Beverly Hills. Save Beverly Hills. I know. Ready to soundtrack your summer. With Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a

festival fanatic, a deep end DJ, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer all-day play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit Red Bull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session.

And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, L, every year after, The Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns. Second chances.

Chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. Meanwhile, like down the road in O.C., there's rumors that Heather DeBrow's not filming with any of her cast.

And I'm like, I heard because there might be cheating rumors, which I had heard. She went on Instagram and in an Instagram comment, she said the cheating rumors aren't true, which, like, of course she says the cheating rumors aren't true.

But I don't know. I've heard them too many times at this point to think that they can't all be true. They can't all be false. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's the kind of thing where I almost feel like if this is all like in air quotes, like hypothetical, alleged, whatever, I don't know anything about Terry Dubrow. But I almost feel like if I found out that he had like slept with another woman, I wouldn't necessarily assume that it was like cheating necessarily.

I feel like they could have like an arrangement. Like an arrangement maybe. I just feel like I feel like Terry and Heather are both invested enough in what their life is portrayed to be that I don't know if it feels like a marriage where they necessarily would care. You know, I don't really, I see Terry as someone who's down for an arrangement. I don't see Heather as someone who's Telford arrangement. So to that point, I can't really see it,

but I could see Terry getting like Hansy in his office. Oh, in the office. That's just why. Wait, that's what I, that's what I, I mean, I don't,

I don't want to like cast any aspersions that I can't back up. And I obviously can't back that up. But like, that's how I can, you know, I just could see something, like, via a work thing. Yeah. I guess they just feel like they have one of those marriages where I feel like,

not that they don't love each other or that it's not real, quote unquote, but that it is almost like a brand at this point where it's like Terry and Heather. They have the house. They both have their shows. They're, you know, it's very well established. And I just feel like it's like maybe it's about that. more than it is about the love connection at a certain point.

Yes. But also, I don't know anything. Right. Well, I could see, okay, I could see the arrangement being like, you could do it, but you can't get caught. And if you get caught,

you're fucked to Terry. Like, like, you know. See, that's the problem with these people that are, but you're on TV. On TV and well known. And that it's like anybody who is on one of these shows, you have to be so careful. careful because if you're on any kind of dating app or website, anybody who has a profile

could recognize you, talk to TMC, talk to page six, and it's out there. Dylan, do you ever get recognized on the street? Yeah. Okay. If you get recognized on the street, how is Terry DeBrow cheating on his wife out there? Right. Like, I feel like this is like inside E and Bravo. Right.

I feel like this is like inside baseball to a point. But like I would say it's not like I'm getting recognized on the street every day, but it happens. It has happened enough times to where I do have some kind of spatial awareness of like I could theoretically be anywhere and somebody might know who I am. If you're, especially if you're in New York, like, I don't have this. I'm sure it's like, you know, if you go to like Missouri, well, you're from Missouri. So bad example. But, you know, the middle of Nevada, not Las Vegas. And like, you know, Nevada, which I know I say wrong.

You know, like, Nevada, I learned that from V. Right. You wouldn't necessarily like, like, be like, oh, people can see me. You know, I have to be extra careful. Right. But like, you've probably been stopped enough on the street to be like, oh, at any point, somebody could know who I am. So I better not do something very unseemly in public.

Right. Like, I'm not going to be like. Like, cheat out my wife. Right. I'm not going to like walk around naked because, first of all, that's illegal. but a second of all, like somebody might be like Dylan from Betches is walking around naked.

Right, right. Yeah. If that's going to happen to you, Terry should be like triple bazillion times more careful. And that's why the whole, I mean, we've had so many of these situations, but the whole, you know,

Michael Darby out in public, you know, anytime there's been kind of a public infidelity situation, it's always like, how did you not think this was going to get found out. I mean, we've, even with people more famous than Housewives, Tristan Thompson, like, you name it, like, men are stupid, men are, like, men make these poor,

poor decisions. But it is one of those things where it's like, having an arrangement and being on Housewives would almost be, it would have to be like somebody you knew personally, or some kind of, like, really discreet professional setup. Because it is like, the second you are on. when, you know, like, Raya is not a safe space. People are constantly, you know, you can't be in public. You can't be online. Like, it has to be a very narrow situation. And I do, I don't know.

I, that's why I'm like, okay, there's a rumor. Like, someone just made it up. I don't know. Cheating rumors are hard because it's like they do get thrown around so much. But at the same time, then the other half of my brain is like, there's smoke, there's fire. It's like, someone just,

look, sure, like total baseless accusations can be thrown out. But like, why were they? Right. I don't know.

I don't know. I guess Heather and Terry, like, you might want to fuck with them. I would be, I'm just very curious. We're going to find out. That's the thing.

We're going to find out. It's making me more excited for this upcoming season of Orange County because whether or not there's truth to it, whether or not it even really gets unpacked on the show,

I'm curious to see how it affects the dynamic. And there's rumors that Heather hasn't been filming with her castmates. Who knows? They've been filming for a while now. So I would assume they're kind of like getting close to done. But, you know, like what is Tamara going to do with that information? What is Shannon going to do with that information? Oh, wait.

I forgot Tamara's back. Okay. I'm not concerned anymore. We're going to find out. Taylor Armstrong is going to be there. She's not going to tell us. Taylor Armstrong is going to be like, like, Terry. he cheated in 1975.

Like, she's like, yeah. Like, he cheated on his high school girlfriend. She's like, yeah, I saw him at the club back in the day. It's like, okay, thank you, Taylor. Right. Yes. You were called check, you know.

Oh, my God. No, but you're right. Tamara. I forgot Tamara's going to be there. She, okay, okay. We're going to get some info. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me that Heather won't film with her cast meets. Heather is like the Kathy Hilton of O.C.

where it's like, everyone has to. cater to me. I'm the best. Like, have you seen my house? If you're going to fill in my house, like, I have to have control over the whole channel. Like, that's the rules now. Yeah, you can tell she comes along with a lot of rules. And for her

tenure on housewives, it has been worth putting up with the rules. But I could also see a situation where it's kind of like, okay, we got to do something about this. It's also like running its course at this point. Like, she has to continue to provide value if she's going to you know. We'll see. Yeah.

You know. We will see. And I mean, at some point, you'll definitely be back to talk about it when we do see. Oh, yeah. I'm excited. Have me on for the cheating. Have me on for any eventual cheating. Yeah, I'll pencil you in for like February.

Yeah. About. Sammy, thank you so much as always for joining. It's always a pleasure. Thank you so much. This has been great. Amazing. Go listen to Sammy on the morning announcements podcast if you want your daily dose of news.

Okay, so we just launched a new premium content that comes along with the morning announcements. So usually if you know I do the morning announcements, it's five minutes every day giving you the headlines. I just launched a new premium side of this where I'm doing longer deep dives, you know, somewhere between like 30 minutes or longer. And basically I'm like deep diving into stories that can't really make it into the headlines because they're like either too deep or they're too, you know, too intense, too complex. And, you know, we're doing a lot of asking why over on the premium episodes. Why has Roeby Wade been overturned?

Why do we have a 6-3 Supreme Court? That is our latest episode. So, yeah, a lot of deep-dive investigations. And I hope you will join me. Amazing. Check that out. And while you're at it, don't forget to rate, review, and follow this show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches.

I will be at BravoCon next weekend doing all of the live coverage. on our Instagram, so make sure you are following at Bravo by Betches, so you don't miss a moment. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mention It All is produced by Dylan Hafer, Sean Kilby, Jorge Morales Pico, and Rebecca Sousmakat. Editing by Jorge Morales Pico, social media by Dylan Hafer, guest booking by Dylan Hafer and Ali Friedlander. Be sure to follow at Bravo by Betches on Instagram and Twitter. Pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari. In celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly

Big Board Buckslot Machine by Aristocrat Gaming, Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is giving one person a $1.6 million dream package. The biggest prize in Yamaba's history. Club Serrano members can earn daily instant prizes and secure a spot in the finale May 29. Don't pass go and own it all only at Yamava, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You win? Details at Yamava.com must be 21-20.

Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion.