Mention It All - When A Comeback Goes Wrong Ft. Louis Peitzman

Episode Date: August 28, 2024

Midway through the RHOC season, Dylan is joined by writer Louis Peitzman, who has lots of thoughts on Alexis Bellino’s comeback experiment. They discuss why her approach this season is falling so flat, and the particular difficulties of being a friend of. Later, Dylan picks Louis’s brain on the upcoming seasons of RHONY and RHOSLC, and whether there’s hope for RHODubai after a second season that hasn’t made much noise. They also discuss Jo’s declaration that she’s moving on from… whatever she had with Tom Schwartz. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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See Home Depot.com slash price match for details. Betches Media presents. Ha ha, laugh, funny. Mention It All, a Bravo by Betches podcast. We don't say that, but now we said it. With me, Dylan Hafer. We're going to check me, boo. Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the Mention at All podcast. I am so excited to have in the studio today a returning guest who is back for the first time in almost a year. I had to check because I don't remember when anything has ever happened. But Louis Piceman, welcome back. How are you? Thank you for having me. I'm good.

This is our first time in person. I mean, we've met in person, but it's our first time recording in person. It's our first time recording in person. The last time I saw you in person, we were seeing alien Romulus. That's right. And holding our big rubber face hugger masks that they gave us at the screening. So what's your facehugger doing these days? I put it on my Chuckie doll.

Oh, wow. So I have a Chuckie doll that I got from season one of the show. They sent out, they sent everyone a Chuckie doll, which I keep in the corner of my living room. and I put the facehugger on the Checky doll. That's great. I put the facehugger in the top shelf of my closet so I don't like wake up in the middle of the night and see it and think that there's like a scary thing.

That's respectable. I just, you know, I guess I don't worry about that. I already have the Chequie doll lurking. So I've clearly given up on not startling myself in the middle of the night. Well, I wanted to ask you on the show today because last week you wrote a great piece in vulture about Real Housewives of Orange County

and specifically, as you call it, the comeback flop of one of one Alexis Bellino. And so I want to talk about that. I want to talk about other stuff too that's happening around Bravo. But where did you get the inspiration to write about Alexis Bellino specifically as you're watching this season of Orange County? Well, I mean, I definitely was one of the people who was like begging them to bring her back. And so I think like I was just, I was so excited.

And that was before the John Jansen stuff. That was just like, you know, I really like, I mean, ever since she posted about her trans kid and she was like, she just seemed like she'd evolved so much when she posted that on Instagram. I think it was like two years ago. Yeah. I was just like, you know, and then the BravoCon appearance, I was like, she has clearly become like a better and funnier person. Like intentionally funny. Her sleigh joke was really good. And I was like, I want her back.

And I also like, I think that shows it have been on that long really benefit from Brue. bringing people back who have a history and a context. But then she just was so bad from the jump that it was like, I don't know. Like, I really felt like she just played it so wrong from the first episode that I became kind of fascinated and it became a very like, be careful what you wish for situation where I was like, all I wanted was Lexus back and now I have her. I think she's like, you know, basically giving one of the worst performances. we've seen on a housewife show.

Yeah, it really has been kind of shocking to watch. I think we're six episodes into the season. And there has not been one ounce. You write in your story. She's done a remarkably bad job of reintroducing herself. What does she have going on in her life, a new relationship with John Jansen? What are her interests talking about John Jansen?

What does she do in her spare time? She has sex four times a day with John Jansen. Literally, like, she hasn't talked about anything else. And so it's, it's frustrating because I, like you, was on the bring Alexis back train. You link out to a tweet that I may or may not have posted in 2022, that I was like, bring Alexis back. And yeah, I almost wonder, like, if they had brought her back a year ago, would we have been having a much different conversation simply because she hadn't met John Jansen yet?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's tough. I did get some pushback from a few Alexis defenders who do exist. basically being like she's a friend of so like she doesn't really have the space to talk about herself which I understand to a point and I do think that editors are not being very kind to her would be like cut off like you know they showed her talking about John Jansen the entire car ride I don't know that actually I'm sure she talked about other things maybe um but I just she's not doing herself any favors and I have to believe that if she gave them anything else to work with they would have used it I don't know.

I don't, at the same time, like, I don't know what her situation is like if she'd come back a year prior. Like, can she even talk about her kid? Like, what's Jim Bolino's role in all of this? He's obviously a very litigious person. So, like, I don't know if she would have been held back from that. I don't know, you know, it's tough to say, but I have to imagine any version of her without John Jansen would be better than what we're getting now. Yeah, I think to the, to the Lexi defenders, It's like I totally, I get that as a friend of, she's not necessarily going to have like multiple, you know, major storylines and like a lot of personal background. But it's like she could just talk about literally anything else. Like just be present for a conversation and not make it about John.

Like I don't need like a different storyline from her. I just need like a presence that is maybe quieter. Yeah, I mean like look at someone like Vicky who's a guest this season. Obviously, she's Vicky, like she's special, but she is technically just a guest star, and she's given us so much in her scenes just by being Vicky. Like, she doesn't have a storyline right now. She just kind of shows up to support Shannon, but, like, she shows more personality and is more compelling, even when she's saying bizarre things, like, we're all, you know,

God-fearing Christian women, including Heather, who's Jewish. But I, she's obviously, like, someone I'd rather watch than Alexis. and I think that Alexis could have done a lot even in a supporting role where she's just like part of the conversation. Yeah, I actually, I felt like last season, Taylor Armstrong actually did a good job of kind of playing that friend who was there

for most of the season, but only sometimes was it really about her when she was around. Like, what did you think about Taylor last season compared to Alexis this season? I mean, I thought Taylor did a good job. I think it's a tough, I think friend of is a tough role.

And I think Taylor came with a lot of baggage being from another city. And like this is a totally, she's returning, but it's a different context for her. I think that she kind of, she had those like that early conflict with Heather that was kind of fun. And also was like very classic housewife delusion where she's like, I'm an act, I'm a serious actress now. But I do think she kind of faded by the end. Like it was a great season. I was happy she was there. But I did understand why they didn't bring her back because.

I think by the end of that season, she was kind of a, she was, you know, it didn't really matter if she was there or not. So I'm just guessing it from a budget perspective. They were like, I would rather bring on a new full-time housewife and, you know, bring back Alexis than, you know, keep Taylor around. Yeah, it's interesting. When you look at like the housewives, like, casting timelines, you know, on Wikipedia, where it's like, friend, guess, full-time.

Like, there aren't a lot of people who have sustained a friend role for more than maybe, like, two seasons because it is hard to sort of be there and be like relevant enough that they're going to give you a contract to come back, you know, for an episodic fee, but also not important enough for them to feel like they need you committed to the whole season. Like it is kind of a, it's a tricky balance. And like it seems like Alexis this season was really primed to be kind of like that friend of who like is almost full time in, you know, everything but name. But like she just isn't, Yeah, it's not, it's not working. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think Alexis would have been essentially full time,

probably in almost every episode if she hadn't alienated, you know, so many people right away because it's like, I think that if she hadn't come out swinging the way that she did, Katie would have invited her to her event. And if she'd been invited, she would not have been missing from that episode, which she was very upset about, obviously, because she's missing that paycheck when she's on an episode. And then, you know, we know from the trailer that she's not going to be on the trip to Europe, which is because Shannon's planning it and you made it,

you made Shannon your enemy. So it's like you're going to miss those episodes of Orange County. I don't think they're going to show us Alexis back at home with John Jansen. So yeah, I think that she could have been. I think it's definitely tough because you have to be, you have to do enough interesting stuff to be invited back. So obviously conflict is part of that. But, you know, I think Emily and Heather have been trying to give her good advice.

of like you need to not go so hard because we have to believe that like she and Shannon could be friendly or cordial at some point, which at this point like is never going to happen. Yeah. And it almost feels like, you're right. Emily and Heather are trying to sort of like pull her back from the, from the cliff of like, you know, ruining it for herself. But then meanwhile in Big Bear, like, Alexis is still under this like delusional impression that maybe she and Tamara are actually the ones that can bring like kumbaya energy to the group. It's like, it's like you've, you've misread the game board here. Like, you're not the one who's like, you're not the rational one who everybody can like meet in the middle around at this point. Right. And I think the other problem for Alexis is

that like she does not have history with Shannon, like not good history. You know, she has like tangential lawsuit history. But Tamara can be like wretched. And then, you know, she and Shannon have so much real history that she's able to pull it back and be like, I'm going to, you know, squeeze out some tears here and now we're going to be friends again for an episode. Like, she can do that. But Alexis doesn't have that history with Shannon where she can get to that point. Right. Like when she's at, I think it was, maybe it was Gina's dinner. I don't know, whoever's dinner it was that she had like the wire transfer receipts that she was showing. When she's like, actually, no, like, I think that Shannon and I could have a friendship. It's like, that doesn't ring true when you've known this lady for

10 minutes and the entire 10 minutes you've spent trying to tear her down. It's all very confusing. I mean, I do think, you know, she's obviously been heavily coached by John Jansen. And I say obviously, I mean, I have no proof of that. I don't, you know, that's my impression of what's happening, allegedly. I think you used the phrase opo research in your article, which. Yes, I, yes. But I don't, I don't know where the anger comes from because the way that she has been acting as,

it's as if Shannon's been doing 500 interviews about what a monster John Jansen is, which, like, isn't really the case. Yeah. Like, it's not like she's been on this, like, I mean, he looked bad on the show because he looked bad on the show. And Shannon looked bad, too. When they were together, I mean, like, I think that, like, it was obviously a bad relationship, and I didn't come away from that being, like, what a great guy he is.

But I didn't have as negative an opinion of him as I do now. Like, I think that whatever they're fighting back against, whatever perceived injury, they're fighting back against. Like, they've just made it so much worse. I don't know what his goal is here. Yeah, that's a good point. That, like, I feel like there's this idea that John Jansen looked horrible from the last few seasons of the show. And it's like, in a way, I guess.

But John Jansen, to me, isn't like, wow, he's the most problematic guy and the worst man ever. And glad Shannon got away from him. It's like, no, their relationship was obviously toxic. She was, like, crying all the time. And I mean, yeah, she said that he didn't pay for anything and this, that and the other thing. That's the big thing that like, which I mean, it's funny too. And they drink a lot together. Which I'm sure is true.

Days of wine and roses over at John Jansen's house. It's just like it's funny because like he's opened himself up to so much more criticism. And like there are things like the scene of him like railing about Gina. He's like outside and yelling about Gina. I totally forgotten about that scene. So now you've brought that back to my attention that he was really nasty. and like scary in that scene, if he had just, like, gone away and been out of Tannen's life,

I would not be thinking about him at all. Yeah, it's funny for that one of Alexis's kind of like key points seems to be like, you ruined his reputation. And it's like the best thing for his reputation would be to never speak to another housewife again, not to date somebody who's going to go on the show and, like, scream about how he's a good Christian man. Yeah, I don't, I mean, it's, it's,

That's the whole thing about his reputation. I mean, I guess when he broke up with her, he said that of like, you've ruined my life and my family's life with the exposure you've brought us. And I'm like, I'm hard pressed to think about what that actually means. Aside from like, they brought up the rumor about him getting so drunk yet to be escorted off a golf course. I remember that. But I also was like that was a rumor kind of in passing. We didn't really. Yeah.

The thing about Shannon is like Shannon is, I love Shannon. But she's like been a mess and she joined the show. And I, you know, it's always hard to say. Like, I never thought she was making up that John was not a good boyfriend, but it's like so much of the energy and attention was on how she was reacting to it. I don't think he was really someone we were focusing on. It was all about like, Shannon is clearly clinging to this man who seems like he doesn't really want to be with her that much. Yeah. And it's making her feel crazy.

Yeah. John Jans are talking about his reputation is very like Justin Timber, like, it's going to ruin the tour. What tour? Exactly. Like, where, good luck booking that. stage like what's up. So good, so good. Everything you want for summer is at Nordstrom rack stores now and up to 60% off.

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You know, it's so hard to know what his actual goal is here, because part of me is like, did he think this was actually repair his reputation as he sees it? Or is it purely revenge against Shannon for whatever reason? Because it feels more like it's just revenge against Shannon. Yeah, the 75K and like the way that Alexis is kind of like handling that piece of it on the show definitely makes it feel like he just kind of like has it out for Shannon a little bit. And we are going to see him, at least based on the mid-season trailer, it does look like we will get some form of John Jansen in the flesh on this season.

I think it might be the finale because I remember, I think Tamara had posted video of them together. I think it might have been a final dinner or something in the finale or toward the end of the season, which, yeah, it was in the trailer that he's going to be filming. It's kind of surprising that he didn't film for like the first half of the season. I don't know, aside from that FaceTime call, I guess. maybe because Lexis doesn't have solo scenes and he wasn't going to come to any group events.

But yeah, I don't know. The whole thing is weird. The claim that he offered to pay her salary so that she wouldn't do the show is really confusing because it's like, I just don't believe it. And also, why would you have to pay? I don't know.

It's very weird. But I don't know if we'll ever know the true motivations of John. Johnson. I've already thought about him more than I ever wanted to. Yeah, I mean, Johnny Jay and Fun Lex. Like, it's, they're, oh, what a duo. I did think it was funny. There was, um, a post on Instagram from, uh, Bryce Sanders interview with Alexis for entertainment tonight, where she was railing on Emily and basically saying how like the Emily that I knew before coming on the show is like not the person on the show at all. And basically like, you know, Emily.

has been this horrible person to her and just like the comments. Emily commenting that she has zero self-awareness. And then Vicki's saying, go away, Alexis, you have no place on RHOC other than trying to hurt Shannon. Go back to your job. Oh, right. Oh, that's right. You don't work. Vicki will never miss an opportunity to remind us how hard she works and how she has a job. And that some of these other ladies don't know what it's like to have a job. Yeah, I mean, I did enjoy those comments. The thing about, yeah, the Emily stuff's weird because I forgot that Emily was the one who brought her back on the show when she had like a one scene. Right, like a lunch, yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't think Alexis has any self-awareness, but she does, according to Shannon or sorry, to Tamara, she is reading the comments and feeling very upset about the kind of backlash she's gotten. so I wonder if she's going to like try to course correct at the reunion. I don't know how much of a space she's going to be given to do that. Yeah, that's always a, that's a tricky thing when somebody leans so hard one direction during filming for a season. And then this really happened with Vanderpump Rules this past season where it was like the Lala kind of like side of things where they were like railing so hard on Ariana.

Like they clearly thought that things were going to go one way. And then the public perception just like, did not pan out in that direction. And then we saw at the reunion, like, they kind of just stayed the course. And I mean, I don't know if it would have. Sheena, I think Sheena kind of tried to have it both ways,

which is classic Sheena. But yeah, I mean, it's true. And I don't, I mean, Tamara has given herself this out of, like, it's because I care so much that I'm being a monster. So I feel like she has that kind of built into everything she's been doing and saying the season, even though I don't buy what she's saying. Like,

she's given herself this narrative of like, yeah, I'm going so hard on her because I'm really concerned about her. And as her true friend, I'm going to scream at her that she's an alcoholic repeatedly. Whereas like Alexis, I'm not sure how you ever turn back from that unless John breaks up with you. Like how would she ever come back from this otherwise? That's what I was just kind of like landing on is like, yeah, like it seems like the only like redemption for Alexis with the group or maybe with the viewers is like if the relationship with John goes kaput and she was able to kind of like, you know, be like, oh my God, I was so, I had these blinders on. And now I realize that Shannon wasn't the problem all along.

But like, realistically, if they don't break up in the next like six weeks and they tape this reunion, like I feel like at that point, like, we're just going to assume that it's over for Alexis on the show. Yeah, which is such a bummer. I mean, I do think it could be a situation. though where it's like she is not put on pause she's a friend of she's not asked back but i i could see them bringing her back in the future if and when they break up because i think that like that's a good storyline and i think shannon is smart enough about the show that she would be willing to film those scenes of the lexas of like let's bond over our shared bad ex

um then they're both going to get sued yes but well yeah that's the other thing i was i was just thinking that i was like are they allowed to say the things they actually want to say because clearly he's willing to file lawsuits. I think you could do, there could be a version of that where they sort of like, you know, leave something unsaid, but like we all understand like the significance of it. But yeah, I think there's, I think that this season is unlikely to like keep Alexis on the show, but that I could see her sort of like staying within the like greater stable of, you know, possible talent for some point in the future.

Yeah. And I think like she obviously, I don't think she and Heather were like hanging. out all the time, but they have some sort of real relationship, which she and Emily apparently also had probably not anymore. Like, she's going to be in that orbit. It's a really hard show to cast for. I think that, you know, they really looked out with Jen. Like, she's perfect. Katie, I'm concerned, is going to be a one and done at this point. Yeah, I feel like jury is still out on Katie a little bit. I did not love the way that the Heather stuff was handled. It's such a mess. And I, And I feel like I don't know if she has enough else going on this season to kind of like come back from that like botched handling of the paparazzi gate. What's her storyline?

Well, her husband hosts a golf thing. Yeah, I mean like it's just like I think that it's it's really unfortunate. I know a lot of people have said like, oh, producers push them to do these things. And I'm like, I get that. But like she still came in guns blazing about a storyline that was like already resolved that we don't really care about. about that much. I truly just do not care if Heather and Terry called paparazzi. I think Heather looks silly with how she's handling it and basically telling Gina it's the same as Shannon's saying Gina's kids are going to be taken away by CPS. Like obviously that's a stupid comparison. But like,

I just think it's never a good move to come in going that hard against an established cast member, especially because we had a Heather take down season last season and it backfired horribly. And Heather emerged longer than ever and like the fans were very much on her side so we don't want to then sit down for another Heather take down yeah I feel like Heather is very much the like if you're gonna come for this be you better not miss or put her I mean she she really and and Heather can make herself as I said like look bad like I think that Heather the way she's like treating Gina the way she's like you know all of it is a little bit like okay I think that you're going too far now and you could just like, if you were just kind of chill about this and were like, it doesn't matter,

you can keep lying about me. I know that she has to make good TV, but there's a version that she could do with this where she would not make herself look worse. But at the end of the day, she's not going anywhere. Yeah. And I think the interesting thing with how that was handled was like, Heather basically was like, Katie is irrelevant to me. I'm not even going to focus on that. I'm, this is a thing between me and Gina.

And so it almost, you know, Katie's big moment of coming for Heather almost turned into more storyline for Gina. Yep. Because all of a sudden, and Gina's kind of like in the crux of all of these complicated dynamics with Emily, with Heather, with Jen, like she kind of is getting it from all angles. And like Gina, whether or not you like her, it's like she is very central to a lot of the stuff that's happening this season. And I do like Gina.

It's a tough season for a Gina fan. Yeah. It's always a tough season for a Gina fan. I feel like you're mad at me. I do think like she is having one of those seasons where it's like someone is dealing with something in their personal life that makes them behave in a way that's not always fun to watch. It's like, I mean, I think that not to bring up New Jersey, but like, go, go wherever your heart takes you. But like, you know, I think Margaret pulled it together in the end last, like, this past

season. Like, she obviously kind of like, in that finale, like, had the last word. But the start of the season was like, really, I felt a little bit hard to watch because she was clearly going through something really challenging in her personal life, like her grief and everything. She was, she was not at her best, which is totally understandable. But like, it just happens that sometimes there are seasons where I'm like, I don't know if you should. be filming right now. Yeah. And I think Gina is so raw from the Travis stuff.

Like the way she's like she's playing the Katie thing badly. And there's no reason to. It's not, it's like such a non-issue. But she's somehow made it worse for herself in like three different directions. Yeah. I think that that's the thing though where like if you've been on the show long enough and you are like ingrained enough in the group that it's almost like you are able to kind of have one of those seasons where your energy is a little. off or your kind of, you know, your head is somewhere else. And like, that doesn't mean that, like, all of a sudden you're going to be cut from the show because it's like, we need Margaret,

we need Gina. Like at this point, the ensemble works better with Gina, you know, kind of making a mess of things in the middle. Yeah, I totally agree. I think that there other, the other side of this is, like, we need some fourth wall breaking. So hopefully we get at the reunion because I feel like the timeline stuff with Katie is a matter of like, Gina, she told Gina this thing. Gina was like, like, don't ever mention this again. And then maybe the phone call was different when she knew that Katie, it becomes about whether or not you're going to say it again or say it on the show on camera. Yes. And I think once she said it on camera to Gina, it was like, okay, now you have to say something to Heather because I don't want it to look like you told me, I don't want there

to be scenes of you telling me and me not telling Heather. But if Gina had told Heather on camera, Heather would have been mad at her for that. So it's like, I think she was trying to kind of thread that needle and obviously botched it, but I, the timeline weirdness makes sense to me when you consider like pre-filming and then while filming. Yeah, like the, you know, the whole thing revolving around like before Sutton's Christmas party. I'm like, why is this? Why is this the event that like the OC season is being predicated on? Sutton needs that extra paycheck because, you know, of whatever's happening with her store maybe. Her store, which according to Google, when you click on it, it says temporarily closed. And that always, to me,

is like, okay, so we're doing, like, what, renovations? I think there's a for-lease sign in the window that I saw it on Twitter. I don't know. I can't believe we're getting Beverly Hills back at some point. At some point. It always feels too safe. Everything comes back. I'm like, I needed more time away from it.

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PC. We do have New York and Salt Lake City coming down the pipeline sooner than Beverly Hills. Between those two shows, how are you feeling about our false slate that we have? I'm feeling good with like an asterisk in that like I'm feeling I'm feeling good question mark asterisk I'm feeling I'm feeling I'm feeling good about Salt Lake City I think it will be a good season it looks really good

obviously I loved last season I I am one of the people who was like I think Monica was like a perfect addition for that season but I'm very glad she's not back I think she served her her role well and like we can move on from that I think the core cast is strong enough as is so and the trailer obviously was great um New York I'm worried about I really, I do like all the, not all the women, I like most of the women a lot. Another asterisk. Yeah, I like them a lot. I think there's definitely components there for a strong second season or 15th,

whatever you want to call it, second season with that cast. But the trailer was a little bit aimless and with the pigeon stuff. I just was kind of like, where are we going with this exactly? And yeah, I'm worried about certain things. I feel like the Rebecca Minkoff Scientology. thing in the trailer. Feels like that's going to be the only mention of Scientology

in the season. And, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I want to be more excited. I think I probably will enjoy it because it's a, it's a real house that's in New York.

And, you know, I live here and I like seeing New York on Housewives. But I wish I felt that excitement I feel for Salt Lake City. Yeah, I think with Salt Lake City, it's like, it feels like, I feel confident that there's going to be like a story engine

happening in the season and there will be funny moments, there will be, you know, crazy things happening. But like, I feel like they know how to kind of like build a storyline at this point, whereas with New York, it is a little bit like, I'm sure there will be some like iconic clapbacks and like great, like great moments. But like I don't necessarily, I'm waiting to be shown that they know how to really like build kind of a narrative. in the way that I think Salt Lake are maybe the best at it at this point. I do think Salt Lake City, one of my issues with the show in the past has been like, it's almost two narrative.

Like every season's about some like huge thing. Desperate Housewives where there's a different mystery every season. Yeah, it's like, it's like, that can be a little bit much. It worked really well last season. But like the shows had moments where there was kind of like, I think too much focus on this like one big piece of drama. And Beverly Hills actually has the same problem. Like they will have a season about like, you know.

The puppy gate season. Puppy Gate is a classic example where it's like. The panty gate season. Yeah, there's just, there's, there's too much about one storyline. Yeah. So I'm not against like a, like a good hang show where like we just see the women kind of like in different scenes and different like combinations of people having little conflicts and resolving them. Like that can be totally fine too. But I feel like the New York cast is not established enough for me to feel that way about them.

Like I need a little bit more going on before I'm willing to have a season that's more low key. Right. Like when I think of like a good hang with Housewives. like the thing that kind of comes to mind first is like old New York, which I know that we didn't, you know, that's a whole thing of like old New York wasn't old New York for a while. But like when it was like Sonia and Luann and Durinda just kind of like, you know, making a mess. Like that type of thing where it's like, okay, who cares like, you know, what the storyline is. But but yeah, like with these, with the newer New York cast that it's like, okay, like I, I don't,

I don't care enough about. And that's kind of how I feel about a. lot of the newer shows like Dubai this season I think is sort of similar where it's like there are moments that I'm really like intrigued by or things that I find interesting but I'm like I haven't quite latched on to you guys like just kind of as people yes I think that's a big problem I don't I don't care enough about any of them yet and I think Dubai and New York have a similar problem where because they're so new in terms of the the cast it's like these women all came in like very very aware of how housewives works. And so it's a lot harder to see their true personalities.

It all feels a little bit more performative, especially on Dubai, where I'm like, I just don't really know who most of them are because they, I don't know, they're kind of playing a role in that way. And I wish we had a little bit more, I wish they weren't always so dressed up and polished. I wish we had a little bit more of them in like, chiller mode so that I could get to know them as people and then care more when they're just. having hangs. Yeah, because Salt Lake, you know, is the other newest franchise. They premiered in 2020 and I almost think they benefited from the pandemic a little bit in that way where like they

basically filmed their first season in relative obscurity. Yeah. And then they premiered, I think November of 2020. They, you know, nobody, there was no Bravo con. They weren't like out and about doing meet and greets. Like it felt like it was a couple years before they really were like kind of unleashed on the world as like celebrities quote unquote and I think that kind of maybe made them work a little harder on the show well yeah and I think it also one of the benefits of sally city is that like the city itself is so unique and we had there's so much weird culture there that we hadn't seen before so like that added a lot to it I think one of the problems with Dubai is like I feel like I learn nothing about Dubai because the version they're giving me is the

version that looks like Orange County where it's just kind of of like these, you know, it's built up in a similar way where it's like, I loved in the first episode of the season where we saw like more of the old Dubai when they went to the market. And I was like, I would love to see more of the culture there that's not just these like absurdly large, you know, homes and buildings and all this stuff. Right. Like every, every time they meet up, it feels like they're at like a different restaurant at an extremely expensive hotel.

And it's just like, is that all it is? All I can think about is how hot it is and how miserable I would be if I were there. One of the Dubai women came here earlier this summer, and it was one of those weeks where it was like 90-something degrees. And I was like, oh, like, you're in New York on such a hot week. And they're like, oh, honey, this is nothing. And I'm like, that's my nightmare. Yeah, I can't. I can't do it.

There's a lot of reasons why I would not go to Dubai. But the weather is certainly one of them. Yeah, it's tough. That show also has really miserable ratings. and well, I don't think live ratings are that it just feels like it's not coming back. Yeah. And it's sad because I think there are people

on the show that I could see doing well if we kept going, but I don't know if I can make a case for Dubai coming back. I think also based on what I've heard the production with like in the UAE specifically is kind of a nightmare. Like there's some

government oversight regulation something where it, I mean that's part of the reason I have heard that it takes so long for them to get the season from filming to air. So I can't imagine that that makes the network more excited about picking it up for future seasons. That's, it's a good point because I think people, a lot of people have said like, oh, they're getting support from the UAE and that's why they're able to make this expensive show that no one watches. But it's like there are, we know, I think we had heard season one that there were like there was oversight

happening. Yeah, it's like golden handcuffs kind of tied in certain ways. So I think that, yeah, I'm sure that's that's an issue too and it still has to be expensive for them even if it's just like flying those women out and putting them up for various things that's what's crazy to me like the amount that they are you know we've had most of them in the studio this season and they're in town to do watch what happens live and stuff like it's not like they're flying here like you know to come to mention it all but like yeah well they should well i mean if hey but that's a lot like it's just a lot of it's a lot of effort into a show that doesn't feel like it's i think with the second season sometimes, you could see a show kind of like ascend a little bit and become

more of that like core piece of the Bravo narrative. And like, I think that Dubai has had some good moments this season. I don't think it's really established itself like among the must watch Bravo shows. I was kind of used by how people were really, there are people who are like, it's, it's incredible. Like no one's watching. It's like the best housewives right now. And I, I have been watching every week and I do find that a little bit baffling because I'm like, there's nothing here that's making me go, you know, wow, why are people not watching this? Yeah, I think if anything, they probably benefited from the fact that until OC came on, they were the only Housewives show we were watching.

Well, I guess New Jersey. I don't know. But like... Well, yes. The only show people were watching, yes, was Dubai. I don't know. I mean, like, it was a softer time in the calendar. And I think that, like, again, like, there's things to like, but there's also just, you know,

I have other things to do with my time. Yeah, I don't know that it's unfortunate. I really, I do like several of them. I really like Lisa. I like Caroline Sanbury, even though she's frustrating to watch sometimes. You know, I do miss Ladies of London. I often really like Chanel Ayan. I wish that she could like rain in a little bit with like all of it.

Because I'm like, I think that she is such a compelling person and her story is so compelling that I'm like, I do want more of her, but like less of the, of the, you know, the outfits. It's a little too much. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I really, I feel like we do need some new housewives cities, which I don't know if that's going to happen, given how shows have been doing ratings wise. But it's much cheaper to cast like nobody. So I'm hopeful there will be, if they get rid of Dubai, that budget could be used toward,

you know, my dream cities of like San Francisco and Vegas. Okay. Which is what I've been pushing for. I thought that I would not want to see a Vegas Housewives show, but I think, like, I kind of see it now. I think it could work. They could hold dice. Yeah, I just, I don't know.

Like, I think that, like, Vegas is so weird. Like, that's another one, like, Salt Lake City, where there's just so much weirdness to Vegas that I would be into that. San Francisco also has, like, a lot of weird. I think San Francisco has a built-in storyline of, like, old. money that's been there and the new money tech people. Like there's a like there's an automatic like conflict built into that. Right. And it could be like oh like she lives in you know whatever like you know somebody's like commuting from Silicon Valley to yeah someone's someone's in Marin and someone's like

you know I live in the Bay Area for many years so I have a bias but I also just think there's like so much weird history to that city and there is a lot of um resentment of the kind of the tech people who have come in and made it impossible to live there. Yeah. Um, so I don't know if Bravo, if you're listening, let's talk. I would like to make some suggestions on casting. I am, let's make this happen. Uh, Lewis wants an EP credit. If, if either of those shows come to fruition. Listen, I think it's important to pay it forward. And I'm trying to, you know, help. Bravo's giving me a lot and I'm trying to help Bravo. Totally. Um, okay, I want to just, um, memorialize one thing. And that is, um, Joe from Vanderpump Rules is officially moving on from, from, um, whatever her relationship was with Tom Schwartz. She posted, did you see this? At the 2 a.m. posting? Yeah, I saw that.

She posted like a slideshow real on Instagram of photos and videos of her and Tom Schwartz. And she said, here we go. P.S. it took me months to post this, but it's so sweet. I wanted the world to see and know how wonderful. Dot, dot, dot. Whatever this was was. This is me moving on.

Thank you, Joe. Congratulations on moving on. And I will just say, this morning, I saw pump rules trending on Twitter. And I'm like, oh, is there like news? Is something happening? It was just this. And then I go to Instagram to try and find this post.

Bravo by Betches. Can't find it. Her account doesn't exist. Blocked. I go on my personal Instagram. Can't find it. Doesn't exist. Blocked.

So I'm like, okay, let me go on my work phone and I'll try from one of the other like Betches accounts because I'm logged into a bunch of them. Betches news. Blocked. at Betches, 9 million followers, blocked. Our always on, one of our entertainment accounts, blocked. She has blocked every single Betches account. I had to go to like a full ass burner account to find this woman's profile.

And I'm like, Joe, I know that I was probably not like the nicest to you during the season of Vanderpomperals. But like blocking our news? Come on. I, you know, I'm grateful that she's probably done on the show. I don't think we need to see any more of Joe. I find her, um, she's uncomfortable.

Spooky as, um, she is spooky as a thing. Like they were not nice to her, but also she is spooky. Um, yet you have to like really do a lot to make Tom Schwartz, I think be that,

unnerved by you, um, not to defend him at all. Um, yeah, uh, RAP, their relationship,

whatever it was. Whatever it was. Listen, we've all been there. We've all been in a situation ship that we were like, it's totally chill. And then, like, they're like, actually, we should stop doing this. Then you're like, I'm going to go cry and call my parents.

But you have to, like, move on on your own. You cannot be posting things at 2 a.m. Yeah. I don't usually make, like, a funeral slide show when somebody ghosts me. But maybe we should. At Joe, my gosh, you got this girl. She'll never see your comment because you are blocked. But I'll comment from the, from the burner account.

Then she'll block that too. She'll appreciate that. Well, Lewis, this has been so great. Thank you so much. Everybody should go read your piece and vulture, the comeback flop. Comeback flop. Yes, thank you. Please read it.

And, you know, if you want me to write more about Housewives and you're someone who assigns housewife stories, hit me up. And where can people follow you? At Lewis Pitesman on Twitter slash X and Instagram and letterbox are the ones that I use too often. Good times. Well, thank you so much. And thank you everyone for listening.

Don't forget to rate review and follow the show wherever you listen. You can follow us on Instagram at Bravo by Betches. And until next time, be cool. Don't be all like uncool. Mention It All Podcast is produced by Dylan Hafer and Bell Roman. Editing by Bell Roman, social media by Dylan Hafer and Candice Maniga, guest booking by Ali Friedlander. VP of Podcast is Chris Allen. And be sure to follow Bravo by Betches.

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