Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - How Coach Craig Robinson Almost Burned His House Down

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Basketball coach and podcast host Craig Robinson shares his side of the story on what went on in the childhood kitchen he shared with his sister, Michelle Obama in the South Side of Chicago. He talks about the lessons he learned at the kitchen table when his family wasn’t very well off and how his mother was always a big supporter — Even when he and his sister started a kitchen fire as kids. Plus, he tells us how to make his mama’s Fried Chicken.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Your Mama's Kitchen is brought to you by Rivian. We got this gigantic fire going and no fire extinguisher. We don't know what to do. And we're like, Mom, Dad, the toaster's on fire. My mom jumps up out of the bed and she came into the kitchen, picked up the toaster, unplugged it, picked it up and put it in the sink and turn the water on and put the fire out, just like that. And we almost burned the house down.

And my mom was so understanding and caring. She was more worried about us being traumatized that she said, oh, man, I'm glad you all, I'm glad the house didn't burn down. And now I can get a new toaster. So she was like celebrating the fact that we enabled her to get a toaster. And I know she was probably scared to death when she came in there. that. I mean, flames going up to the ceiling. Hello, hello. Welcome back to your mama's kitchen. This is a place where we explore how we are

shaped as adults by the kitchens that we grew up in as kids. Not just the food, but all the things that happened there. The conversations, the laughter, the music on the radio. I'm Michelle Norris. And our guest today is Craig Robinson. Now, there are a couple of famous Craig Robinson's. There's the comedic actor known for his roles in the office and films like Hot Tub Time Machine, he's a funny dude. But I'm here today to talk to another guy who also happens to be a funny dude, who also happens to be a former Division I basketball coach, an executive with the NBA, and a successful banker, who also happens to be the big brother of Michelle Levon Robinson Obama, who also happens to be the co-host of a new podcast with his little

sister Michelle Obama called IMO. I hope you're listening to that podcast, but I'm glad you're here today to listen to this podcast for this conversation with Craig Robinson. So glad you are with me. Oh, Michelle, I'm so happy to be here and you were so kind with that introduction. Thank you. You know, I could have gone on to say that he's also a stand-up human being. He's a great father. He's a great husband. He's literally one of the funniest people that I know. And as you know, in our first episode, we talked to your sister. Yes, I do. And I have a lot of work to do to keep up with that. That was a great episode, by the way. And the dish she talked about was was one of our family's favorite dish. My mom's red rice. Oh, just thinking about that makes my mouth water.

I just made a batch of it two weeks ago. You did? How did it turned out? I did. It turned out well. It turned out well or so or so people said it was they said it was all that and then it was all gone. That's how you know. That's how you know. That's a good side. I've worked that into my repertoire. And it's great because you can make it. It's as with many things better the next day. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it's good cold. It's good, really good cold. We used to take it when we went on picnics and we went to the drive-in. We take it with us and eat it, you know, room temperature with some Kentucky fried chicken or my mom's fried chicken. That sounds great.

So since when I talk to your sister, I have a picture of the kitchen with the yellow vinyl tablecloth. Right. With the phone, with the long cord on the wall, with the window that was placed just so. But I'm wondering if there are certain things that you remember, because people can grow up in the same house

and live in the same space, but have slightly different memories. Tell me, about it. What was the kitchen like that you remember growing up in that house on Euclin Avenue? The things she mentioned, I remember very well. And she mentioned on your show, and I'll mention here, it was really a small kitchen that had to have been reconfigured into being a kitchen because it was so small and so oddly shaped.

But what I really remember is that right outside the window that she was talking about was our back porch. So it was one of those screened-in back porches. So it was probably in Chicago nine months out of the year you could sit out there. And then after that you couldn't sit out there because it'd be freezing. But we used to, when it was really hot, we would eat out there sometimes. So we'd take a card table and card table chairs and eat out there. That was sort of our, what's the term when you eat on the street? Patio for sidewalk cafe.

Like bistro. It was like our bistro. Yes. It was like our bistro eating. Yes. I love that. And not only did we eat out there, we slept out there. we slept out there.

Like we would put down a quilt and sleep out there. So I remember our kitchen being sort of multifaceted. It was where we engaged in our normal eating at the table. But it was also the portal to get to our back porch, which always felt like you were camping out. So did you and your sister, Michelle Obama, have a secret language or, you know, Sometimes I even notice this with my own kids.

We're at the kitchen table, and they're having this silent conversation between the two of them. They're kicking each other under the table. They're like trying to decide who's going to ask, you know, the question that they wanted, something they want to do this weekend. Did that happen between the two of you? You know, now that you ask that question, it probably did. And it probably had to do with how were we going to? going to eat these disgusting vegetables or get rid of them somehow without my mom and dad finding out, right? And we didn't have any pets, so we couldn't, like, sluff it off to them. And I do remember

that I would help her out if there was something on her plate that she didn't want to eat. Like, if people weren't paying attention, I would take it off her plate and eat it. Because my sister was a an extremely picky eater. But we grew up, you know, my mom did a good job of cooking for somebody who wasn't sort of a master chef, but back then nobody did good cooking vegetables. They were just either boiled or steed. People didn't cook them well like they are cooked now that make them delicious. So we were always rolling our eyes at the vegetables.

And my dad used to eat those vegetables like, you know, they were going out of style. So he loved my mom's vegetables. And my sister and I would look at each other like, what is he doing? He's got a mouth full of those vegetables and he's asking for more. It's like, oh, please. What are we talking about? Are we talking about lima beans? We're talking about broccoli.

I'll go from. We're talking lima beans for sure. We didn't like those. Spinach back then was not. good because it was it was cooked in a pot and boiled down to it was so bitter well because it came in a frozen brick it came in the frozen brick a bird's eye frozen brick nobody had fresh spinach back then so it was it was it was that and i liked the frozen peas and carrots you know that that that you would use as sometimes when you sprained your ankle you would put those on your ankle because it you could

formed the peas and carrots around your ankle. I like those better than the canned peas and carrots. The canned peas and carrots, any canned vegetables were almost unedible. When you and your sister were growing up and she was such a picky eater, were you picky to? No. Because I'm imagining that you, as I've seen your family, these pictures. And there's this interesting growth cycle where Craig is, you know, about the same

size as everybody else in the family. And then there's like one summer where suddenly he's like jacking the beanstock. And it seemed like it just happened in like four months that suddenly you just grew up. Did your appetite grow along with your body like that? So I always had a decent appetite, right? And I think that might have helped with the growth spurt that I had. And the pictures you saw were probably, you know, I was normal size in seventh and eighth grade, and then by my sophomore year I was taller than everybody in high school. And, but I have always been a healthy eater, especially, especially when my mom, there were, there were very few things that my mom fixed that I didn't like other than the vegetable part of the meal we focused on. The rest of the meal,

I always enjoyed. And unlike my sister, I was a breakfast guy. So when I woke up in the morning, I was always starving. So my mom fixed breakfast for us every single day. And she fixed me a full breakfast of bacon, eggs, toast.

She'd make a bacon and egg sandwich sometimes. On the weekend, she'd make pancakes and waffles and remind me to talk to you about she used to teach us how to cook our own breakfast too but my sister only ate uh peanut butter and jelly and i know you all talked about this you had to she for years that's she said that's i mean every day she had peanut butter and jelly she didn't like eggs she didn't she would eat a pancake every now and then i mean who doesn't like pancakes and syrup and bacon who doesn't like bacon i know bacon is she didn't like bacon until she got to be an adult so i ate

All of that. And so you're like, more for me? I was more for me. And I was an active kid. So I was hungry at lunch and then I'd be hungry at dinner. So I was not a picky eater except for vegetables. And my mom, you know, my mom made stuff like tuna fish salad. For breakfast?

For lunch. And I love them. Okay, for lunch. I love them. I mean, she would, she made fried bologna sandwiches. I mean, you know, she made what we call, what people call sub-sambages. We call heroes or grinders in Chicago. You remember that.

Yeah. My mom used to make those. I mean, she was always fixing food. And it was, you know, my mom, you know my mom. My mom loved us. But I think she showed us. how much she loved us in many ways, but especially in the kitchen. Because like I said, she was not like sort of a trained cook.

She cooked, like you were saying, out of necessity, right? Because we had to eat. And fortunately, she would stay at home until Mish got to high school. So she, you know, we always had dinner on the table when we came home. Can we just say a word about your mother? I adored Marion Robinson. I know you did. She was funny.

It seemed like the older she got, she was unfiltered. Yes. If she was thinking it, she was saying it. Yes. She could crack the whole room up. Really, really wonderful. And the best of her lives on and you and your sister and her wonderful grandchildren. Well, she loved you and loved hanging out with you all.

And I always, I tell Meish, you know, mom owes you because I think getting to spend time with Mish and Barack in the White House and feeling needed and wanted added years to her life and getting to travel and do those wonderful things. We used to talk about it when she'd get back and, you know, she was kicking and screaming to go there, but once she got there, I thought, I really felt like she added years to her life and was very fulfilled. And got out about town. You know, made friends and was going to openings and concerts and doing her thing.

Yes. And as you said, as she got older, you know, my mom was very polite. But as she got older, she just started saying whatever was on her mind. And it's like when you have children and they're little and they start talking and you're like, hey, don't thap, that. You like almost want to grab their mouth. That's what we wanted to do with her after she got in her 70s. We're like, Mom, no, you just stop, wait, wait until we get in the car. I don't want to give away too much, but we were at a table once, and one of our friends was describing someone that she met and, you know, going on, he does this and he does that and he lives there.

And at the end of the table, suddenly you hear, boring. Right. Yes. It's like she was like, and then she had to look at her face like, child. Did I say that out loud? She was very, very funny. It sounds like she was very patient also because as I understand, there were a couple of times. were you and, as you call her, Mish, that's what the family calls her, almost burned the house down. And one of those times happened to the kitchen.

Yes. Yes, we did. What were you all up to? We were, you know, it was, after we got to be a little bit older, and I would say sort of eight to ten years old, Mish was eight, I was ten. When my dad didn't have to work,

we always wanted to let them sleep in on the weekends. So we would get up and we would fix breakfast. And sometimes we fix breakfast for everyone or sometimes we just fix breakfast for ourselves. Well, this was one of the days we were fixing breakfast for ourselves. And do you remember Toastoms? They were like the, they were the precursor to Pop-Tarts. Yes. And Pop-Tarts were the Toastoms were these pastries that you would put in the toaster, and they didn't have the frosting that Pop-Tarts had on them. So it was just the jelly-filled pastry with nothing to protect the jelly from coming out in the toaster. So you can see where I'm going with this. We had the toastums in the toaster, and the jelly, before the toast popped up,

the jelly seeped out into the toaster. And we didn't realize it because we're, you know, doing our thing. And the next thing you know, Mish and I smell the smoke and we look over and the toaster is on fire. And I mean, Michelle, flames are up to almost to the ceiling. And back in the day, you know, houses caught on fire in Chicago and everywhere. You know, it was just, it wasn't as safe and fire retardant. But Chicago has always been a city where fire is an issue. But Chicago was a city where fires, ever since Mrs. O'Leary's, cow kicked over the lantern.

So we got this gigantic fire going and no fire extinguisher. We don't know what to do. And we're like, Mom, Dad, the toaster's on fire. My mom jumps up out of the bed and, you know, our house is small enough for my mom who jumped out of the bed. She'd take like four steps that she could be in the kitchen. And she came into the kitchen, picked up the toaster, unplugged it, picked it up and put in the sink and turn the water on

and put the fire out. Just like that. And total badass. We almost burned the house down. And my mom was so she was so understanding

and caring. She was more worried about us being traumatized that she said oh man, I'm glad you all, I'm glad the house didn't burn down and now I can get a new toaster. So she was like celebrating the fact that we enabled her to get a toastie.

And I know she was probably scared to death when she came in there. I mean, flames going up to the ceiling. Wow. Yes. So you're right. We almost burned the house down. But most of the time, we were able to pull off breakfast with no problem. And I assume the toastums were for you because...

The toastums were for me because she might have had a half of one. I'm telling you, she would not eat anything. I'm trying to think what she would eat of. You know, every now and then she'd have a bowl of cereal, but it would have to be one of those sugary cereals that my parents would not normally buy. Like Cap and Crunch? Like Lucky Charms.

Or I think Captain Crunch was too harsh on her, the roof of her mouth. You said Captain Crunch. It wasn't, it's like Captain Crunch. Captain Crunch. Captain Crunch. Yeah. It's Cap'n' Crunch. You're right.

Oh, man. But you know what she likes? She liked the chocolatey cereal. Like she would eat the Count Chocula or Cocoa puffs or stuff like that, which would make the milk chocolatey. Because she wasn't a milk drinker. She didn't like milk. Yeah. You'd have all those floating schmodies and the cereal.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If I wanted to get her, if we wanted to get her to drink milk, it had to be Nestle's quick, mixed in there. Yeah. You know, the story you just told about your mom and the toaster is interesting because they were of a generation. You know, they would use that toaster even if it got, you know, didn't look right or the cord wasn't quite right.

They would use it until it actually wore out. Like the idea of just replacing an appliance just because was something that they would never ever do. No, Michelle, we were cleaning out a mom's apartment. there were can openers that I used when I was a kid in her drawer. You talk about not getting rid of anything. And those casseroly bowls that had the little design on the side and had the glass tops, she still had those. Corningware.

She still had those. Let me tell you something about this, though. Let me tell you something about this because our mothers passed away within days of each other. And their funerals were within days of each other. And so I was, you know, on a parallel track cleaning out my mother's kitchen. And I found a bunch of her corningware. When online, do you know that that corningware is worth, like, in some cases, hundreds, in some cases thousands of dollars, particularly if you have one of their, yes, yes, if you're listening to this,

you know, don't leave the show now, but when you're done, go check it out because it's the truth. And so we held on to all of it, you know, when I realized that. And also because of the memories. It's just like so many memories, good memories you have with food and kitchen. I mean, just you doing this show is such a wonderful idea and just, you know, it makes folks think back to times where you got good smells, good taste, you know, my mouth is watering. And good lessons. Because I, the theory of the case at the show is that we learn our most important first lessons in the kitchen more than almost

any other room. We learn about grace and diplomacy. We learn about justice. We learn about grievance. We learn about generosity. And so when you think back on the kitchen that you grew up and how does it shape the person you became as a basketball player, as a basketball executive and coach, as a banker, and now as a father who's raising his own kids, both adult and kids who are still in school. That's it, there's, that's a great question. There were so many lessons that I learned at the kitchen table, almost too numerous to name, but some of the things that have sort of carried forward that I, that, that Kelly and I are trying to teach the boys when we have dinner together are sort of the, you know, when, when, when, when, when, when, when we, when, when, when Mish and I were kids,

we rarely ate out. You know, my parents were always with the little bit that we had, and you know our history, we grew up poor. We didn't know we were poor, but we were poor. But they always had in their hearts room to help folks out. And that's what I remember my dad helping out his brothers, other people in our family, people at work, talking about how young people would come in and they wouldn't understand how to do a job. And he would take the time to sort of teach them the ropes and

help them along. And my mom was at the school all the time. And she used to say to me, when you get done with your schoolwork, what are you doing with your time? And I was like, oh, no, just messing around. She's like, don't mess around. Why don't you help somebody who's having trouble? And it really has it has shaped who I am. And I'm so happy for that because we live in a time now where you don't get much empathy out there

from folks. And I'm just hoping that the people who are empathetic can just hang tough, be strong, keep being who you are and show the rest of the world how to be. Because that's how

neighbors used to be. We always thought about what the other person was going through, and if we could help out, we did. And that was one of the biggest lessons I learned sitting at the Robinson kitchen table. You know, it's interesting you talked about the self-awareness you have, looking back over your shoulder and realizing how scarce money was. There's an interesting moment in your life. You're a successful banker. You're doing really well.

You're making, you know, more than your parents probably could have dreamed of, maybe more in half a year than they would make it in a couple of years. And you decided that you wanted to step away from that. Your sister had a similar journey, you know, where she stepped away. I decided to go and do a job that was more aligned with service. In both cases, your parents were solidly behind you, you know, instead of saying, you're going to walk away from that kind of money, which you could hear a parent saying, right? You know, you need to make as much money as you can and save as much as you can.

can and get your foundation, but that's not what they said to you. Where do you think that came from? And how important was that to you? I suspect because I never had that discussion with them. They just were supportive. But I suspect that they both realized, like we all do in these jobs, how hard getting up and going to work every day is. And I know my dad particularly talked about that how to enjoy your life because once you start working, you're never going to stop working until you retire or die. And he always said, if you really want to enjoy your work, find something you like doing, and then make that your job. So I think that's where that came from when they realized that we were sort of at an early age realizing that there were more to these jobs than

the paycheck. And I also think that because of the way they brought us up, when we decided to do things that were sort of more, for the lack of a better word, more sort of helping other folks, they were proud of it. They were, they, and, and, you know, they enabled us to be in the position to have those kind of choices. I did talk to my parents about that. I would tell them all the time how sacrificing so that Mish and I could go to a place like Princeton and then she went to Harvard Business School and I, I mean, Harvard Law School and I went to the University of Chicago Business School. There was a lot of sacrificing so we could do that. They enabled us to have the flexibility to do whatever. we wanted after that. And I really think they never put a premium on how much money

one makes. Because we didn't have money and we had fun in our house. I mean, fun. We didn't, like I always tell everyone, we didn't know we were broke. I mean, you know, we had pizza every now and then on Fridays. We went to the drive-in.

We thought we were living large. We go to the beach. We had a vacation in the summertime. We didn't know anything about, you know, having a second home, but we certainly had a vacation and had fun. So my parents sort of taught us, you can have fun on whatever budget you have. You just have to be, you have to be cognizant of how much you make versus how much you spend. And that's a lesson that people aren't teaching their kids these days too. And love is its own currency. Yes.

Yes. If you can fill a house with love, you are wealthy. And they certainly did. Money is a difficult topic, but I did want to ask about something that you've written about. You've talked a little bit about when you got into Princeton, you didn't go to the neighborhood school. You went to Mark Carmel, which is an all-boys Catholic school, and excelled in basketball there. and were recruited to play for Princeton, which did not have athletic scholarships. Right.

And so your parents had a difficult choice. It's a big deal to go to Princeton. And I'm sure you had other choices. Could you talk a little bit about the family discussions around that and what you learned as your parents are sitting at the kitchen table, probably that same kitchen table with a yellow vinyl tablecloth, you know, deciding how are we going to to make this work. Yeah, well, you're right. And it did happen at the kitchen table. And the way it was set up was my dad was at the at the 12 o'clock seat. I was at the 6 o'clock seat. My mom was at the 9 o'clock and Mish was at the 3 o'clock. And she was right up against the wall. And I can remember this like

it was yesterday. And I found out that I got into Princeton. Now, I'm getting recruited by some other schools that have full scholarships, but Princeton does not have athletic scholarships. They have financial aid based on how much your parents make. And the tuition at that point in time was something around $13,000, which, you know, that sounded like a lot of money to a kid from the south side of Chicago. Our family contribution was something like, let's just call it, $2,000 a year.

That might as well have been $2 million to me in our family, right? And so when I got all the paperwork from Princeton, I made the decision on where I was going to college. And so the scene played out like this. My dad's at his spot on the table. It's after dinner. Misha's gone. She doesn't know where to be found.

She's like, doesn't want to hear it. My mom's doing the dishes, which is right next to us. And he said, so where do you think you want to go to school? And I said, well, I think I'm going to go to the University of Washington. And my dad did what dads do when you've made a decision he doesn't agree with. And he tilted his head all the way back to the back of his chair. And for the listening audience, you know, my dad was disabled. He walked with two crutches, but he went to work every day.

And he leaned his head back and he leaned his head forward and put his chin down all the way to his chest and used to rub his whiskers on the skin of his neck. It was a thing he liked to do when he was thinking, but you knew he was disappointed. And if he was disappointed, it felt like the whole house was disappointed. And my mom doesn't say a word. And I'm looking at him like, how could he be disappointed? I am going to college for free. And it's a good school.

And so he looks up at me and he says, tell me, how did you come to your decision? And I was ready for him because I know my dad and I'm in high school now. And I was prepared for the question, and I said, well, they've got a great engineering program, and I was really good in math and sciences. So I thought I was going to be an engineer. I said, not only are they good in a good engineering school, but they're also in the PAC 8, which was the PAC 12, was the PAC 8 back then. And I said, they're in a really good conference, and they play some really good teams. and by my junior year, I might even be able to play. And that was the second thing.

And I said, but most of all, they're giving me a full scholarship. There's nothing we'd have to pay as a family. And my dad said, well, if you pick your school based on how much I have to pay, I'll be very disappointed. And he said it just like that. It wasn't mean, it wasn't shouting. He just said, I'd be very disappointed. And I was like, holy smokes. And I was thinking in my head that I really did like Princeton,

but I knew we couldn't afford it. So he said, why don't you think about it overnight, and then we'll talk about tomorrow, and then you tell me what your decision is. So, Michelle, I was like, I didn't know what to do, but the next day we come back to the table and it's the same scenario. Misha isn't there. My mom's doing the dishes.

My dad's at the table. And he said, so did you give it some thought? And I said, yeah. And I said to him, and he said, what do you think? And I said, well, Dad, you know, I actually liked Princeton. And before I could even get the instant out, he slapped his hand down on the table and said, fine, you'll go to Princeton. But he was wise that he made it sure that it was your decision, that he didn't dictate it to you.

He did. He did. And I said, well, what about the money? And he said, don't worry about the money. We'll be able to, we'll figure it out. And he said, we, you know, we planned for you guys to go to college. And he said it with such confidence. And, and you know the, you know the punchline of the story is when he passed away, my mom and I are going through his, all his documents and stuff. And I run into this envelope, one of these big manila envelopes that's got a bunch of receipts in it. And I looked through, and it's all of these credit card receipts. And I was like,

mom, what were all these credit card charges to Princeton for? She was like, ah, give me that. You weren't supposed to see that. And it turns out that they financed the part of the tuition they had to pay with credit cards. And you talk about the ultimate sacrifice,

but it changed our lives, right? And for two people who didn't go to college to have the foresight to know that this was a better decision for me than going anywhere else, it just shows a level of, you talked about it. It talks about a level of,

love and sacrifice for your children. And talk about making a way out of no way. They did what they had to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they did. And never complained once, never heard a peep out of them. And I wouldn't have known it had I not found that envelope. They had a plan.

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I can keep filling it for weeks, and it never smells. What really surprises me is the peace of mind. I used to feel guilty every time I tossed out wilted spinach or half-eaten leftovers. Now I just drop them into the bin, open the lid, drop them in, and I know that they're going to a better place. You can use the grounds in your garden or feed them to your chickens, but me, I have Mill, get them to small farms for me so farmers can grow more food. You just send those grounds off to farms in little boxes that Mill can provide, and they will turn that back into real food for real animals. That's such a good feeling. It's a full circle moment that I didn't know that I needed.

You can have your own full circle moment. Try Mill, risk-free, and get $75 off at Mill.com slash YMK Podcast. That's Mill.com slash YMK Podcast. When you were young, there is another story that I know about that I want to ask you about, because I've heard it from one side and not the other. This is interesting because I spent time with your sister more than you, so I hear things, and now I get to hear the other side of it. But there's a story that she's talked about, Craig,

where you were on a bike and a policeman sees you on this bike and wonders, where did you get that bike? Yeah. Is that your bike? And it turns out it was your bike. Right. And your mother had to fuss at this police officer. Yes.

And did the police officer, she got him to apologize to you? She got him to apologize. I mean, this is Chicago PD on the south side of Chicago. Let me just say, if you're not familiar with the south side of Chicago, all of my relatives, my father, all his brothers lived on the south side of Chicago. So I'm very familiar with the south side of Chicago because I used to spend so much time there. He had five brothers that lived in Chicago. that just didn't happen.

It didn't. It didn't. I mean, a police officer stopping a young black man on a bike. That happened all the time. But the idea that then his mama would get the police officer to apologize, that's new. It was a real lesson for me in parenting. Because the story goes, my parents. My parents saved up enough money to buy me a bike from Goldblats, which was a department store.

You remember Goldblats in Chicago. Yes, yes. And they were these yellow 10-speed bikes with the handlebars that went under, you know, like a Rams horn handlebars. It's just your basic 10-speed. But it was a sale bike, right? It was everybody had them. And but the rub was somehow they had forgotten to get the clamps to clamp all

of those cables that go from the brakes and the gears all the way down the bike. They come with these plastic clamps. They didn't have clamps. So in order to keep them out of your way, my mom took the twist ties that you get from baggies. Before there were Ziploc bags, these things called baggies that look just like them, but they came with these green and white twist ties. Everybody had him. My mom put him on a bike, and I'm riding my bike. And the policeman stopped me and says, where did you get that bike? And I was like, from my house, this is my brand new bike. I was so proud. I just like, dude, thanks for noticing. This is my bike. And he's like, that's not your bike. And I was like, no, no, really? He's like, no, that's not your bike. And then I realized something

was wrong because he was starting to get mean about it. And then I was, I still wasn't upset because I knew it was mine. So I was like, no, no, you're mistaken. This is my bike. I felt like, I felt like Henry on Goodfellas

when he's getting pinched for the cigarettes by the policeman. And he's like, no, no, I'll take care of it. These are, we're okay. This is okay.

That's how I felt. I was so, I was that confident. And he didn't believe me. He ends up making me, taking my bike, putting in the trunk of his car, and taking me home.

In the police car. In the police car, in the back of a police car. And I was in tears by now because I was like, not that I thought I was guilty, but he didn't believe me. And I was raised in a house where just tell the truth, people will believe you, especially policemen. And this dude would not believe me. And I got home and my mom comes out. I go running in. The guy doesn't believe this is my bike.

He thinks I stole it and I'm like the type tears. You know, I'm beside myself and my mom's like, going in the house. And then she goes out to the gate, the policeman comes up and I'm on our front porch looking out while she's talking to the policeman. And I see my mom giving him the quiet scream. Like she is, you can tell, because I've gotten it. She is reaming this dude out. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, she's going to make it worse. Meanwhile, my bike is in the trunk and he's shaking his head.

And after about 15 minutes, he goes in the trunk of the car, takes out the bike, gives it to my mom, closes the trunk. And drives away. And my mom calls me out. I get the bike, take it in, and my mom's still mad, right? She's still mad, so mad that the next day she called the police station to report him and tell his supervisor that he should come back and apologize to her son for accusing him of stealing a bike. And she said that she told him, because you got a kid here who really believes in law enforcement. And right now, he's not believing in you guys.

So you ought to come here and fix this. And sure enough, the next day, that dude came back, rang the doorbell. My mom called me down. He apologized to me, which I was very happy for, shook my hand like a man, and then was off. And then I could tell, before he left, my mom gave him a few more of the quiet scream. You can see her head shaking. She was still mad. And I said at the outset, it was such a lesson in parenting in believing in your child and then sticking up for your child.

And Kelly and I do that all the time. Like, we believe our kids when they tell us something. And if they need our help, we're going to give it to them. And it was just, it was, it was one of those things that it, it, it, it gave, it gives you confidence to be able to walk around the streets because you know you got, your parents have your back. And a lot of our friends growing up, their parents didn't always have their back. That's an extraordinary story that he came back, rang the door about, stood in your foyer and shook your hand. Shook, shook my hand. And I, you know, I wish, after all these years, I, you know, I don't have any idea where that. that guy was. But I, you know, it's it's like you get older and you're not mad anymore. I wish we could have gone over that story with him again because he would probably laugh at it now too.

But I'm sure he learned something from my mom in that interaction as well. And if he figured out, oh my goodness, that's the person who is the brother or the person who went on to live. That would blow his mind. That would blow his mind. Your relationship with your sister is very close. Yes. Was that particularly important? You talked about your mom staying in the White House and being close to the girls and being there. But you also remained very close to her.

And it's hard because when people move into a space like that, sometimes they have to sever. That's sever ties, but it's harder to remain tethered to the people you love just because you're in such a bubble. You guys figured out how to deal with that. And was that really important to give the family this? support that they needed, you know, when they were going through those years. My sister was really good and really intentional about her time in the White House vis-a-vis how it would affect her family, right? So she always invited us to everything that we would want to come to. And it was really hard for us because at the time, I was a Division I one head basketball coach.

So I've got like these 15 other people's children that I was responsible for. So it made it really hard to be together. But Mish and Barack were always very intentional about, all right, let's make sure we get together when we can get together. Right. And so for us, that was the Fourth of July. We'd always be at the White House and we'd stay like a week with them in the summer. and on Thanksgiving. And, you know, you've been a part of some of those Thanksgiving dinners.

Well, when I was coaching, we made sure that we played a game in D.C. over the Thanksgiving holiday. So I was able to bring my team to D.C. do a service day. We play Howard or we'd play George Washington or we'd play Towson or anybody in the Maryland area, we'd play a game, and then we'd have Thanksgiving dinner at the White House with my team. So, you know, they made it really easy for us to be together as a family when we could. And not only did we do that, but they would take the kids when they would go travel on some of their trips. So that was wonderful. And then my sister would come out to Corvallis when she could to spend

some time with us out there. But it was really important for the both of us because as you, as you mentioned, Michelle, we grew up together. I mean, we were like each other's first best friends, right? Like she did everything I did growing up. People don't realize it, but she could play basketball. She could play softball. She could play baseball. She could run track. She did everything that me and my friends did until it got too hot outside as she didn't want to be outside because it was too hot. But my dad would take me to the park or we'd be out in the front of the house doing stuff. She'd be right out there with her glove and her bat. And so we were together always. And the first time we were apart was when I went to Princeton and she was still in high school.

and then she ended up coming to Princeton. So we were back together again. And then before they moved to the White House, we lived four houses down from each other. So our kids went to school together. My mom picked up all of our kids from the lab school together and took them to one of our houses, and then we'd be together on the weekends for soccer.

And it was just like, so when we got to be older and jobs moved us apart, it was a real adjustment to not being, of not being together a lot. And so those times in the White House, it was very intentional. And now that they're out and she and I are doing IMO, our podcast together, it's like, it's the best,

because we get to see each other every single month. And we're laughing and joking like we haven't seen each other for six weeks. you know, it's, it's, it's been really neat. Well, that's, that's the hidden dividend of the podcast is that it keeps you guys, you know, and I think your parents, Marion and Fraser would be so well pleased that you have figured out how to remain in each other's lives in this way. What part of your mom and dad live on in your kitchen today, you live in Wisconsin, you talked about cleaning out her kitchen, are there physical things that are in the

kitchen and are there things from her repertoire of recipes that have made its way into what you all put on your dinner table? Yeah. So, you know, my mom never had like a book of recipes. Like it always seemed like she either cooked from this cookbook she had, which I don't know what happened to it. And maybe Meish knows what happens to it because, you know, it could be part of the stuff that's at the foundation now. I don't know. But she has. She has a, had some little recipes around. For example, she made homemade cakes. She made me red velvet cake. So we have the red velvet cake recipe that our oldest son, Avery, made for his wedding reception. And it was absolutely delicious. You know, like Mish makes red rice. I haven't made

the red rice yet. I have her lemon chicken recipe. and I make her fried chicken. So that lives on in our house. Can we talk about the fried chicken for a minute? Yeah, we can talk about the fried chicken. Because I heard you say you make the fried chicken. I make the fried chicken. Like you, I found some people who make really good fried chicken.

But every now and then, I just want to make my own fried chicken. And I'm not a cook either. I'm not one who is in the kitchen a lot. I can cook, you know, breakfast. I can grill. I can do that kind of stuff. Fried chicken's ambitious for someone who doesn't cook. What's the secret?

What do you do to get the crisp on that chicken? My mom's secret was that she had three bowls in her mixture. She had a flour bowl. She had an egg bowl. Now, both of those sound very familiar to you, right? The third bowl, ice water. Ooh. Ice water, Michelle.

Say more. Say more. So she would dip the chicken in the ice water. Put the chicken in the egg wash. Okay. Put it in the flour. Let it sit and do the same thing.

After that, coat it a little bit, she'd do a little bit more egg wash and a little bit more flour and then ice water and put it right into the skillet, into the grease. And you know, ice water and grease really don't... Yeah, yeah.

You got to be really careful. So you got to get it in there and get it cooking right away. And it was the crispiest chicken back in the day before there was extra crispy. My mom had extra crispy chicken. And so it's a process. Like, you can't rush it, right? You got to take your... time. And you can't, the grease has to be hot, but it can't be too hot or it'll burn the skin

before the chicken gets done. Yeah, yeah. So, and then what I've added to her recipe was back in the day, nobody had spicy chicken, right? So she would season her chicken before she put the first coating on it, and she'd season the flour with salt, pepper, season salt, which everybody to use back then and a little bit of garlic salt and that was it what i've added to it is a little bit of paprika and crushed red pepper that i put on the chicken right right on the chicken so it's it gets sealed by the coating to make a look to add a little kick to it some people make put hot sauce some people put hot sauce in their egg wash i don't i don't do that i i like the red pepper flake because it's got a little it's got some heat to it without adding more liquid to it.

Well, as, as, you know, I've said many times on this podcast, I outsource my fried chicken now because I found someone in Washington, D.C., who's so wonderful at it that I don't much make it. But I'm going to have to try this because it sounds a little bit almost like Korean fried chicken, the technique of coating it twice. So you get air in between there. And that's where you might get that flakiness where you get kind of a double crisp. Yeah. And I don't know. where my mom got the idea of the ice water. But one day she was with just fried chicken with just flour and no egg wash. It was just flour, throw it in there. And it was fine. That was fine fried chicken too. And then one day when these people started talking about extra crispy,

and I believe it was KF's Kentucky Fried Chicken came out with the first extra crispy or it could have been a Chicago. And I don't even know if this was just Chicago, but you were, you remember, remember church's chicken. And I remember Harold's chicken. And Harold's chicken. So Harold's chicken was sort of naturally crispy too. And then one day she was, she was had this ice water out there and she's frying chicken all over the place. And, and it was the crispiest chicken we had had. So yeah, give it a try. And let me know how it turns out. Yeah, yeah, you're going to have to work fast with some skill and definitely have an apron on because that water is going to make that that oil pop pop pop pop pop all over the place.

It is. It is. You got to be very careful. And now people are frying chicken outside and doing all this other stuff. So there's ways to do it. But, you know, the thing that I, that keeps me from making it more is cleaning up. Yeah. That mess.

Cleaning up that mess afterwards. And all the grease and everything. It's all over the stove. Instagram has that thing where you. I think you put, when the grease is cooling, you put baking soda or something in it so it congeals. Yeah. And it's easier to get rid of. But clean up after fried chicken is, that's the other reason to make it so somebody else can clean it up.

Like, they have KP duty. You provided us, and we'll put it on the website, the recipe for a slightly healthier version of fried chicken, which is the oven fried chicken with lemon sauce. Yes. And that's something that, it sounds like you don't make that as much, but that was something that your mom made a lot. When my mom figured that, okay, enough of the frying chicken and cleaning up the kitchen, she made this oven-fried chicken with lemon sauce. And your listeners will love that because it's easy, it's less mess. And it takes a little bit longer because you're cooking it in the oven.

But I tell you, it comes out crispy enough where you think somebody fried this chicken and it was oven fried. This is definitely, I'll be, I road test the recipe. So I'm looking forward to trying both the fried chicken and the oven fried chicken. And I'll let you know how it goes. Good. Well, that's the recipe that's handwritten by my mom. So if you can't read it, just call me. No, I can, I can, it's really lovely to see her handwriting.

I think, I think our mothers all went like to the same school for penmanship. Because they're, there, there, it was so particular and. Yes. And quite beautiful. Craig, I have loved talking to you. This has been a lot of fun. I have a real hankering for some fried chicken right now. Well, this has been a real treat.

And, you know, you mentioned it earlier. You spend more time with my sister. But any time that we get to spend with you, our family just absolutely loves being around you. You're always so gracious. Tell Kelly, I said hello. She's one of my favorite people. I love her. Tell Braddock, we said hi.

And just, we just, um, is. Enjoy listening to you, do your show, and I'm so happy for you and keep those recipes coming. Now, before we go, I want to remind you that our inbox is always open and we would love to hear your stories. Stories about your mama's kitchen, stories about recipes that still resonate with you, maybe thoughts on some of the episodes you've heard here at your mama's kitchen. You can record yourself and share either a voice memo, or a video with us. You can send that to YMK at highergroundproductions.com for a chance for your voice to be featured in a future episode or featured in a voice memo at our website. And speaking of the website,

if you want to try one of these chicken recipes, the fried chicken or the baked oven chicken with lemon sauce, you can find the recipe at our website at your mama's kitchen.com. And while you're there, you will see all the recipes from all the previous episodes in their some great stuff there. For everybody at home, thanks for joining us. Please come back next week because here at your mama's kitchen, or are we serving up something delicious? Take care and be bountable.