Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - How Comedian Murray Hill Found Family in Showbiz

Episode Date: October 20, 2026

This week, we're welcoming Murray Hill to the mic - beloved NYC nightlife emcee, comic, actor and now author, of the new memoir, "Showbiz!" From a tough New England childhood to an expansive life onstage, Murray shares stories of resilience, hope and Rhode Island red strips (the best snack you've never heard of). That's showbiz, kids!Subscribe to the show: @YourMamasKitchenPodFollow us on Instagram: @yourmamaskitchenFollow us on TikTok: @yourmamaskitchenSend us an email: [e-mail] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you did look through the window and you saw these four people sitting at the dinner table, which we had to do every single night, you would have been like, oh, this is a nice, you know, New England family. But the chaos that surrounded it, that was familiar. So when I left home at 18, and that wasn't a constant, that was mind-blowing. Hello, good people. Welcome back to your mama's kitchen. This is the place where we explore how we are shaped as adults by the kitchens that we grew up in as kids. And yes, I'm talking about the food, but all kinds of things that happen there because all things happen in the kitchen. All kinds of things happen in the kitchen. And I'm joined today by Murray Hill.

Lucky me, because we're going to have some fun. Thank you so much for being with us. Show biz. Show biz. Show biz is the name of the book. You know, it's a morning we should. I don't drink coffee. So I assume that other people don't need it. Did you need coffee? Oh, no, I'm ready to go.

Okay, good, good. I'm glad. I'm glad. Only because of you. I'm here in the afternoon. That's how much I love you. It's, oh, it feels, I said morning. It is the afternoon. But no coffee, but we'll still spill some tea. How about that? Done. Okay. So, Murray, you are known as the hardest working middle-aged man in showbiz. I think you've earned that title because you wear many hats and you do many things. You're an author of a new book, which I have right here called Showbiz, exclamation point. I'm glad that you included the exclamation point, because in some ways you're like a walking exclamation point. No, in many things in your life. We know you because you're an emcee. We know you because you're a fixture of nightlife here in New York.

We know you because you played a wonderful character on several seasons of somebody somewhere. the doctor professor Fred Rococo, soil inspector, and author of a book, and now guest on your Mama's Kitchen. Thanks so much for being with us. Nice intro. Yeah. Love it. Well, you know, I could have gone on and on and on, but for brevity, we try to keep it a little bit tight. Thank you. There's a joke in there somewhere, but we'll keep it clean. Yeah, we will. We will. So we always begin our episodes with a standard question. Tell me about your Mama's Kitchen. And your family was big on photo albums. They kept a lot of photo albums.

And so if I was to go through one of those old-fashioned photo albums with the plastic covers and roll through... The dust and the mold. And if we looked at one of the pictures of the kitchen, what would I see? I have an Irish father and Italian mother. Okay. And the Italian mother ruled the house.

So it was her kitchen. Okay. She didn't like anybody else in it. And it was very small. and it had it had like kind of like an 1980s like red and white striped

wallpaper and a little tiny black and white TV this big and did she watch her stories on that she watched the soaps and my father watched the Red Sox games but I'm telling you it was this big and there was the stove

and the fridge and like four cabinets and she knew exactly where everything was and everything in the refrigerator was wrapped and placed and if you touch something

I can't say I lived in a healthy household she would know if I had touched something that I wasn't supposed to eat so it was really wild so the kitchen the kitchen for me was kind of like

I'm not going in there did you eat in the kitchen yes and you know part of the kind of of a New England family is no matter how chaotic and everything was and how much we didn't all like each other, it was still had to eat together every night, which was pretty wild. Was that then a moment of detente? Did everyone kind of like set everything aside?

Not really. Not really. It was it. It was almost like four different people that lived together, came together. Mom, dad, your brother and you. Yeah. They came together. in this kind of traditional family setting, but it wasn't, that's not kind of really what was going on. And that's kind of with the photos too. And I wrote about this in the book, like, you know,

if you looked at the photos, you'd be like, oh, this, you know, it's going to practice or this is at vacation and all this stuff. But, you know, what the photo didn't show is, you know, the reality of it. So, but the interesting thing, and this is why I think it's funny to be here, because I can't cook to save my life, but it started because of those dynamics. Because you weren't allowed in the kitchen. Yes, but my brother was.

Oh, no, explain that. And that's an Italian thing. You know, the son is the golden boy. And I wasn't welcome in there because I burn it or I do, you know, I just, so I was just, so I was like, all right, I'll just do something else. So I never learned how to cook and I don't really enjoy it. and one time, this is like maybe 10 years ago, I was going to make salad for this woman I was trying to impress.

So I went to the farmer's market. Like I'm being a, you know, big shot. And my friend was like, well, you got to wash it. So like, okay. So I put the salad in a strainer and wash. I put on hot water. And I ran it, your producers looking at me like, What the fuck's going on?

I put hot water on it and I literally, this is how, this is the level where I'm at. It shrunk. And I'm looking, I'm like, what? It was really hot water. Yeah, I'm like, what did? Why did this big salad? Now it's like this. It's a wilted salad now.

Yeah. But that's the level that I'm at. So that's what the kitchen was. And she had, my mother had in the kitchen a list. Always list. with a blue Bick pen. And it said Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and it was the same meals.

Okay, what'd you have Monday? Every time. What'd you have Monday? Now, let's see if I can remember them. It was, this isn't even in the book. This is an exclusive. People are good. My friends who already make fun of me for my picky eating are going to have a ball.

It was like black beans and, What do you have the fuck? It was like, one night was like black beans and toast. Okay. And it was lasagna. Always lasagna. Okay. That's, we like that night.

That probably was delicious. Cheeseburger. Okay. Yeah, you can see where this is going. And then there was like, like an Irish meal. Boiled. Yeah. Like, even the way you said it, you just brought me back.

Boiled with potatoes. Yeah. Potatoes. So, and like, you know, corn, like in the summer. Like, you know, it was the same. stuff. So, and it wasn't, you know, it's crazy because it's still like this today. But, you know, the Irish food was kind of bland. And the Italian food wasn't spicy either. So I can't even have a ginger shot without going into full sweats. So you're just not used to spicy food? No, not even. I can't eat

tacos, anything like. No, tobacco for you? No, no. All my castmates on somebody somewhere. Yeah. destroy me constantly. Oh, what? They bring out like the saracha. They're like, oh, no, he needs a kid's meal. Chicken fingers, no sauce. You know, grilled cheese, nothing on it, no tomatoes.

Yeah. So you said your mom ran the roost. Kitchen was her space, her domain. Do you think for a lot of the people we talked to their moms, the kitchen was a place of agency for them because they had none of it anywhere else. Like they couldn't control life. They didn't have a chance to make decisions. But the kitchen was the one place where this is mine.

I can do what I want in the space. I can say you can come in. You can't come in. I can make my lists. I can lock the door if I need to. Was that was, was that? Yeah. That's actually, I haven't quite heard it like that.

Yes. She, you know, my mother was, she was full of contradictions. She was extremely intelligent. she was a suppressed artist but she ended up being a chemist and was like one of the first people at in, I think she went to Emerson

one of the first people to get a PhD in science and she was much older so this was a long time ago so she was so intellectually advanced but a repressed artist and then the Catholicism you know it's just like a

tsunami of crap she was so socially conservative. And so that kind of, you know, she was like ahead of the time. So the kitchen for her, it was a place where she had agency,

but it was also a place where she could be a little bit more traditional woman because she wasn't. So she was the boss, you know, in all the ways. Like she was tough and all that kind of stuff. But so, yes, it's interesting because she kind of went the other direction

and was like, like this is the one place where I'm going to be the traditional mother. Did that feel natural to her? I don't think so. Yeah. I don't think so. I think she felt obligated. Like wearing a shoe that doesn't fit?

She felt obligated into domesticity and having a family. Because I think, you know, now things, thankfully, are different. Still rough, but, you know, she wasn't champion for being independent or intelligent, you know. so she was kind of stuck in these and I think that's where maybe the social conservatism came. Like she was kind of stuck in these this religious stuff of like, okay, the Italian woman needs to be in the kitchen. You know, you got to go to church.

You can't, it's a sin to, you know, all that stuff. Yeah, that's a tough cocktail when ambition and expectation collide. That can be really... And reality. Yeah. Where women were 50 years ago in the workplace and in all place. There is a line in your book where you're, it's about halfway through and you're writing about going to college and we'll get there eventually in the conversation. But you're looking back at this point and you talk about growing up in a household that was chaotic and volatile and familiar. And the word familiar is the one that made me think.

Because did you mean familiar? like you were used to the chaos and the volatility, or was it familiar in that if you were looking through the window and you looked in at your household, you would see like the ideal image of what a family would be, and that would be familiar. I was wondering what you met by that. Yeah, I think it was the chaos that was familiar.

And, you know, to bring it back to the kitchen, and your first question about the images in the photo album is, if you did look through the window and you saw these four people sitting at the dinner table, which we had to do every single night, right? We had to do it. Just looking at it, you would have been like, oh, this is a nice, you know, New England family. But the chaos that surrounded it, that was familiar. So when I left home at 18, and that wasn't a constant, that was.

mind-blowing. Like, I mean, that was like, you know. When you suddenly wouldn't. I'm like, what? Not everybody's like this. And that's what college is great for because you, you learn that your family life is not life. Yeah. You know, there's a whole big world out there. So you say the photo album masks the reality. If I may ask, what was the reality? You know, I came from a, well, both my parents are passed, but she would be considered today as MAGA, as right wing. So she even had One of the last times I saw she had a Ted Cruz book under her. So it was that kind of conservatism and right wing. And then it was also abusive house.

You used a pretty heavy word they were abusive. Yeah. Abusive in the way that they talk to you, emotional abuse? All of it. All of it, yeah. It was a rough upbringing. So sometimes we, and often, the show we talk about the things that you learn in the kitchen some of us have to unlearn things also

well that's why i'm here to give you and your people a different perspective yeah you have to unspool some things and i you know it's interesting because i still haven't quite unlearned everything and i'm in my 50s now um i have a incredible wife who loves to cook and i still have that stuff that's inside of me of like, no, kitchen, danger, get out. Like, it's just in my cells still. And I've spent probably $10 or $15 million on therapy my whole life. But it's still there. So when she's in the kitchen, we've actually just started doing this

because she's recently moved into my place is, you know, she'll do the stuff on the stove. And I'll do the produce and like cut the, You know, this, I don't even, I mean, the prep work. I'm like so bad. The prep work, I think it's cooked. What is that thing? Let me do the carrots.

Oh, you peel the carrots. You're being a sous chef. You're peeling the carrots with a little peeler. I'm sorry, kids. I hear the staff is laughing. I don't even how to, I'm like, what's this called? Yeah, so I like cut the cucumbers. I peel the cucumbers.

I cut them in slices. And it's just like this peaceful, beautiful. And she loves cooking. Now, did she have to learn. you in the kitchen? Oh, yeah. I'm not coming in there. Don't bring me in this space.

No, I still, I mean, even last night she was making something and I did my prep work and I got out of there. And I went back to my desk and started doing work. And she was like, excuse me, come back. So I do, I still need to unlearn that. And I, and, you know, my mother was very controlling. And one time, you know, we ate very bland. And one time they, we had.

what are they called? Egg rolls, Chinese rolls? But they were full of shit. Like onions, noodle, like all kinds of stuff was in there. Okay. And I had been spent my whole, that's crazy.

So you're going to kick me out of here. Get another guest. No, you're here. We're sticking with you. What was in this egg roll? But it was like onions, tomatoes, like noodles. There was so much stuff in it.

And I pretty much had grown up my entire life with the same meals every day with everything separated. Nothing was touching. Oh. So I kind of developed a little bit of a neuroses about this and my friends

will be laughing right now. So when the egg roll came and it was all smushed together. Smushed together, but like it's a texture thing for me too. Like onions. I'm like, so I mean it's a funny story

but it's also lame. So my mother made me eat it and I didn't like it. And I couldn't leave the table until I finished. So I ended up staying there all night. So is that, was that common? Like, you're going to eat that there's starving children in China? You're going to eat all your food. Yeah. Is that the household you grew up in? Yeah. Eat this. You be grateful. Be this. But onions made me sick. They really, like, even now talking about them. So, you know, so it's like,

I have this aversion to all that kind of mixing stuff and being told, try this, eat this. but that is direct from my childhood kitchen. Have you unlearned some of that? Does your food touch? Are you allowed to have the potatoes? I have gotten so much better. I eat calamari and, you know, all this, yeah, what did I have the other day there?

I didn't even know what it was, and I ate it, and I actually liked it. And like sometimes now I'm like, oh, my God, that's flavor. Like I get, I'm going, what's this flavor? And then I ate something the other day. I started getting a little perspiration. A little spicy? A little spicy.

And I was like, oh my God, and Bridget Ever was like, there's barely any. There's like three things of pepper in there. What are you doing? So, yeah, I'm still a work in progress in the kitchen. Is there something that brings you comfort in terms of food, though? What would you consider to be your comfort food now? Well, you can, I don't know if you do close-ups. I say this joke, Michelle, I'm half Italian, this half.

I have, now my grandmother was a. my grandfather. They were two chubby, roly-poly Italians. Your maternal. My maternal? Grandparents. Grandparents. And, you know, everything was food, food, food. And my grandmother would make these little pizzas, red strips. They're called Rhode Island Red strips. And she would also make, um, yep, what are those things called the Italian? Penensis? Oh, I know what you're talking about. Penelces. The fancy cookies with the little, um, um, um, the fancy cookies with the little, um, um, um, The dust on them.

I can't not think of the name, but oh, I can picture them. And she would make me special lasagna. With the powdered sugar on top. Yes. And she'd make me special lasagna that didn't have onions in it. So my comfort food is definitely pasta. Who doesn't love pasta? Chicken parme.

Yeah. With a lot of cheese. No-e-e-e. Yeah. Yeah, pizzas. Like, but so the comforts kind of skipped a generation. So when I was with my grandmother. You liked that kitchen.

Yes, and she would make me all this. And she allowed you in that kitchen. And she made me what I liked. And we used to play, you know, she also taught me how to play gin and rummy, which I love. You're a card player? I'm a car player. Good car player? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Can we play poker after? You know what? I married into a family of very good card players. And I don't, I got my feelings for. hurt so bad the first time I sat down at the card table that I never came back. Oh my God. That's like me hitting the egg roll.

Michelle, we got to go to couples therapy. I just don't play cards. I enjoy it. I play Kino, which is cards with bingo. I mean, it's like, you know, bingo with playing cards. A little more, you know, Reno than Vegas. My husband's family, they're their card counters. I mean, they're really, they double decked pinnacle and, you know.

So I don't play cards. I have such respect for people who do. And that's another kitchen activity. You know, that's when the kitchen table, you're sitting around the kitchen table talking trash playing cards. You do that at your grandmother's house. Yeah, we ate. She had these like little like tin TV tray.

You guys are what are your 20s? But, you know, she. Yeah, our staff is too young to remember TV trains. I looked over there. Oh my God, I can picture the TV tray. They had that little bendy thing that the, that if, okay, for our audience, if you don't remember what a TV trays. TV was a thing that was still new enough that you sat around the TV like a campfire and you would eat your meal on these trays that had little like foldy chair

kind of things underneath them. Yeah and like like cheesy designs. Yeah, ours were like looked like wood. Yeah, like wood. And I think the, I remember my grandmother, there was like flowers on it and it looked like those, you know, that Christmas plaid sometimes. But it was and you could sit there, you could look at the couch and you could see where people sat because there were all these grease stains in front of the couch from people eating on their TV trays. Yeah, you remember that? Oh, yeah. I don't know, I don't remember what we watched, but we had the TV on, too. Probably Bonanza or something like that. Or Herbie the love book. Oh, yeah. We're getting too old now. We're going down memory lane too much. But, you know, when I did go to college, like my whole world just, everything just opened up. And,

you know, we had dinner at the table. We're all broke college kids. And, you know, we drank, we ate, and we played gin rummary and smoked cigarettes. Can you believe it? People smoked cigarettes back then. Everyone smoked cigarettes at, you know, at one time. So, you know, I kind of, you know, took back the night as far as dinner and meals go with friends. So when I started doing that in college, I was like, God, this is really good. This feels good.

Yeah. It feels like family. So I kind of, you know, I kind of found my family when I left my family. family. Yeah. That makes any sense at all. It makes, well, there's this thing called found family where you, you know, there's the family that you're born into, and then there's the folks that you scoop up along the way, and when they're the right ones you hold on to them. Yeah. Your, your college journey was really a beautiful part of the book and a really beautiful part of your story. Difficult also, but there was an epiphany and an awakening. And, and, and, you

a period of self-discovery for you, where you, it just felt in reading the pages, almost like you were able to step out of a box that you had been placed in. Yeah, it was like a, what are those things called? Jack in the Box? Yeah. That's what it felt like when I left home.

I'm like, bam! I'm just like, you know, thrust it into this whole big world. And, you know, that happened when I moved to Boston, from Connecticut to Boston, and then that happened even more when I went from Boston to New York. So, you know, I had to unlearn so much

and then also be open to what I was seeing, and I was a visual artist. So I couldn't believe, like, you know, there's the college experiences and stuff like that, but once I started taking photographs in gay nightclubs, you know, three o'clock in the morning in Boston down in Commonwealth, you know, my mind was just like,

because my whole life has been if you're different, you're bad. If you're gay, you're disgusting. It's like all negative. Everything negative, negative, negative. And then try to imagine that, that upbringing. It's almost disassociated in a way because, you know, I was queer, but I didn't know it.

So I'm getting all these kind of very discriminatory messaging from all religion and hometown and all that stuff and my family. And then I'm actually in that group that people are discriminated, but I didn't even know it yet. So when I get to Boston, and I have my camera and I'm in these gay clubs,

and that's, I will never forget the first time I went in there. It was pure joy, happiness, community. It was like, like the music was fun. The like people were take, the drag queens were, drag queens were taking the piss out of everybody and the audience it was like camp and funny and drinking and partying and everybody was together and like the real world didn't even know that was going

on and i think that's it was like and you know this was also back in the 90s yeah early 90s eight ladies 90s and you know everybody was going through hell but when they went to that club in person with each other it's also found family but that's it was you know this is before people even said safe space but it actually was a an oasis it was

so when I just walked in I I couldn't even I can't even grasp it now I'm thinking about I can't even it's just like Christmas fucking morning I'm like what is going on here? You were a young artist at that time working with working in film with the camera what made you

decided to go down to Com Avenue How did I get down there? Okay, it's a long story, but I went to Boston University, which was pretty conservative also back then. I probably still still pretty conservative. Yeah. And, you know, it was kind of the height of the political correctness, like the guy who ran the president of the school,

if it was today, he would have been like no woke, no, no, you know, like that kind of shit, which is ridiculous. So, you know, I was kind of in this conservative institution, and I had real individual wild photography professor who was down in the basement. It was kind of a little bit of a troll and not an internet troll, but like a guide, you know. And he saw something in my curiosity. And he turned, I mean, again, there's teachers in every point. He was like, you have to know about Man Golden.

you have to know about Diane Arbis. And I was just like... These are seminal photographers. And they took... You know, well, Nan was... Nan Golden was more inside taking pictures of her community. Diane Arbus was taking pictures of freaks and gay people and weirdos and all this stuff from outside. And she had a fascination.

So it was a little bit different, but both of them showed these worlds that I had never seen. and I mean I was just like I need to go I need to go find these people because Nan Golden had just left Boston when I was there I actually saw her once I went to go see her so I went to these clubs I snuck in I said I was a reporter from Boston Phoenix and nobody cared about you were a reporter for the Boston Phoenix

yeah I had a camera like you know the cameras oh you ready young kids they were big you know a big flash but I got in anywhere They just let me in. Boston Phoenix is the independent newspaper. Yeah. And is it still there? I don't know if it's a great newspaper.

I always loved the Phoenix. Yeah. Yeah. And that was the first time I read about, you know, there was a cartooning called Dikes to watch out for and they had gay and lesbian listings. So that's where I saw where to go. So I'm in the back pages and like the class side ads. Yeah.

listings and stuff. So I, so I was like, I need to go find that. and you know unconsciously because I was pretty ignorant based on how I grew up but I would

you know I'm like I was observing but I was also like like oh wait why I feel more aligned here like this this feels more this underground club with all these different

kind of people I'm like this feels more where I belong and I was also accepted there too so I mean it's a long story but that's how I got there was basically from a teacher being like you got to study these people and then I was like you know I was when I early on I was like okay I need to do something that's different what everybody else is doing

because I felt very oh now we're going back to the kitchen like confined right yeah I felt confined by school too and you know being in art school you're you're in a studio you're painting you're doing all the stuff but it's all in this box but the the camera camera up got me out and got me to like see all this all this other world then I I kind of never left like I even when I go to club I don't do it as much now but I when I go to clubs I'm just like that's your you you breathe that's where I grew up in a way yeah and that's really you know I have found family along the way but when I got to New York and I went to SBA for photography and then when I got into the club scene here. That's kind of how the seeds of Murray were planted in Boston, but then when I got to

New York and I got into this night, this rich, beautiful nightlife community in the East Village. Like, that was, that was home. What was the name of that club on Commonwealth Avenue? It was called, I remember Venus de Milo. Uh-huh. And I have this image of you almost skipping out the door at the end because you found a happy space. It was, you know, I've always had, this is an interesting question. I've always had a little bit of a split, right?

And that's kind of from childhood to, like the home life to the public life. So when I was in nightlife, what always, it was like you were in this world that was so loud, such fun music, like Robin S, you know, that was the big song. and people just like literally feeling joy and celebrating being safe in this moment and then you leave you close the door, you're out on the damn street

and it's quiet and now you're back into reality where it's not so safe. So I didn't have that feeling when I came out but only when I went in but when I left I was like oh God now I'm back to this shit. You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm. Reality. Because, you know, and even now, we know the environment we're living in now. You know, that feeling in those clubs, you know, still isn't like that today out in the world. Yeah. You know, I don't need to tell you. It's not cool. Yeah.

It's not safe. We're in a period of judgment. Yeah, we're going back. We have gone back. The train is rolling backwards. So, you know, these sacred spaces are so important. And if I didn't have night in life, I don't know what would have ended up, how I ended up. I have no idea.

You know, it sounds like you had angels along the way. One was this college professor who knew what you needed and led you to Nan Goldman and Diane Arbus, because he knew that that was like planting seeds for you. I know. I mean. But there are also you write about a moment where you had to make a decision. and your parents were going to cut you off. They were going to stop paying for your tuition,

which meant you would have had to go back home. And I found it incredible that the university stepped in and helped you figure out the process to emancipate yourself. I know. I mean, that's such a big word. It sounds so... I don't even know if people know what that means now. I mean, I always associate it, frankly,

with, you know, the proclamation emancipation, you know, which is emancipating yourself from... bondage. But that's kind of what you were doing. It was a legal thing that they pushed through to get me emancipated so I didn't have to go home. And that was another professor, Richard Raisless. He was my painting professor. He was a great guy. I think he's still there. You know, he knew what was going on at home because it was manifesting in class. And, you know, it was one of those things like when I told him what was going on at school, he, got up and he goes, come on, let's go talk to the dean.

And he goes, what can we do to fix this and keep him in school and get him away from his family and all that stuff? And it was just like adults up until that point turn the other cheek, which is also a very New England thing. You know, oh, no, no, everything's fine. So this was an adult that was like, okay, I see what's going on. I'm going to acknowledge it. You know, you have so much potential. Let's keep you here and, you know, get disordered.

that you can live your life. So, I mean, I find him, too, it was just like, you know, it was like that hand that came across. And I went through the process. So you separated yourself from your family and became a fully emancipated adult. What did that mean for you?

I mean, it was scary. I mean, I can still remember it was scary because, and that kind of goes back to what you're saying about the familiarity. Like, you know, and the concepts of family, right? Because it's still your family. And like, you know, Italians and I wish, you know, this is your blood. This is your family.

This is, you know, that's above all. It's not if you've been treated bad or anything like that. This is your family. You stick with them. So to be given permission to leave a place that wasn't healthy for me, I never thought I could. I didn't think I was allowed to. Like, you know, the psychology of it all is pretty tripped out. So these teachers who aren't right.

right wing who aren't in my family who have lived in the city and all that stuff they're like no you can leave and we're going to help you so it was just like oh you know so it that's a that was like a big piece too is the undergraduate the hand helping was mind-blowing so when you decided to do that was that the point that you didn't really look back because you haven't you didn't have much contact with mom or dad. Yep. Or your brother after that. Was that?

It was cut off out. Mutual decision? No. Yeah. They tried to contact me and I just kept, you know, I basically, you know, it's not cliche because emancipation means emancipation. But when that happened, you know, I struggled on all that stuff, but it was the start of my life.

that was the start and you know I had angels but there was also some something deep down and this is where you know that's kind of where my spirituality is like for me spirit spirituality is watching Whitney Houston sing like the way that she makes me feel like that otherworldly like that's it's something in here and I knew that connects with people too and so I knew there was some there was something way down in there that said, okay, you're freaked out, you're scared, but this is, go forward and leave, and leave them. And, you know, another irony is, I'm just as I'm speaking this, my mother gave me the I-Tina book, Tina Turner. And, you know, so when I was just talking about walking away, she's my favorite. But when I read that book is when I, I, I,

I understood strength and resilience. And I was reading it. So she walked away. She ran away. She ran across that freeway. We saw the movie. She ran across the guy from the hotel. You know, the, I don't, he gave her, he didn't give even give her that much.

Right. But she went to that. She said, I have no money and I need a safe haven. And he gave her a key to a room. Yeah. That was the beginning of a new life for her. And that's, you know, as I was explaining walking away, that's, that's the image of her walking. and yeah, because she talks about going through on the highway.

So, you know, it was scary, but I knew I had to move forward. And it was a complete cutoff. I would probably say for like 15 years, no contact, nothing. None at all. It was. With mom or dad? The whole family. We even talked about your dad.

My dad, you know, in my act, which I hope I'll invite you to come in the fall, I say, I don't have daddy issues. I never talked to the guy. Okay? So, and then another thing I say in my act is stereotypes are based on facts. So my dad was, you know, he was also much older. Yeah, well, they were in their 80s when they passed.

He was kind of your stereotypical Irish guy. Didn't, never talked about anything. Like barely talked at all. but it was inside like you know full of all kinds of stuff but he was quiet reserved um and drank all the time so and i think he was also stuck in our family dynamic so you know i didn't really have a relationship with him yeah i didn't i didn't i didn't i didn't really know him but i will tell you something heartbreaking kids get out your get out your tissues is you know i i don't think i've ever i ever had a conversation with him.

Really? As a kid or even older. Like we both, you know, there's parts of me that are like him. Like I love sports and, you know, all that kind of stuff. But, again, he loved watching sports. You know, so I never knew what he thought of me or if he even did. But when he passed, I actually went, that's when I broke the estrangement and went back to his wake. my mother told me

she goes I got to show you something and she opened up his wallet and there was a picture of me as a little girl you ready for this? My first communion picture full bullcut

doing this and it was in his wallet for that entire time and I was just like family stuff is deep yes it is and I think people talk more but I don't know if they do

But, you know, nobody talked. Nobody communicated with each other. It was just yelling. Yeah, there's a scene in the book that just tore me up. Your mom was physical. Like, she hit you sometimes. Yeah. And she was angry and she was hitting you

and you described your dad listening. Was it Little Feet? Yeah, Little Feet. CSN. Yeah. He was listening to his music. Sippin. Checked out.

That was his, it was strange because we were all strangers in a way in a house. And that's, you know, the, keep going back to when you were asking me about the dinner table. It's like, in a way it was like we all were trying to find our ways to cope and disassociate and unhealthy coping or whatever it was. Workholism, you know, alcohol, you know, never coming home from school, whatever, all the different things that everybody was trying to find their own. strategy to survive. And then we were kind of forced together in this house at the dinner table. But one of the things that is difficult if you come from a home where the home life was tough and you start to see your parents and yourself in your actions, in your habits, sometimes in your face. And I wonder with your dad if there's a little bit of that.

Well, you know, there is. And when I went back to the wake, there was all these photographs of him. And on the mantle, before I even walked in and not seen my family for the first time at 15 years, there were pictures of him on a mantle. And I was like, I just, there's some of them that are in the book. I don't know if they're probably not in that one. They're black and white pictures. Okay, so the color ones aren't in there.

I have the galley. I look forward to seeing the actual. So, look, try to imagine, I'm Murray, you know, I've had this career and this life in New York. I go back to my hometown for the funeral and I see these photos and that is, I am looking at pictures of me. And it was, you know, I'm kind of doing these big gestures, but it was, I was another one. I was like, I mean, my dad has a widow peak. Right? he's got this little like chubby smile

and he was so particular about his hair product in his hair yes I'm like what the hell and the same I don't have them on now but I have these like 50s style glasses and that's what he wore so it's you're influenced by things

you're not conscious of you know and my uncle too and my mother's father were these jovial happy you know laid back roly-poly guys. And the women were all hardcore. So I definitely have, you know, the roly-poly guy in me.

And then I have like the toughest nails, which I do associate with the Italian part of myself. You know, I'm like, oh, I'm not taking bullshit. How did you, I'm just trying to imagine how you dealt with that day, going back to your hometown, going to the wake. You haven't been there in 15 years. Do they know you were coming? they did know I was coming.

Okay. Yeah. Because you know the whole family was talking about that. They were all. Yeah. Murray's coming home. Yeah. So how...

It was... It took, oh God, it was... We'll talk about fun things at some point. Mm-hmm. It was so many different emotions and feelings crashing the shore at once. Yeah. Because, you know, there's also the natural... regression that happens because I was an adult. I had been out now for 15 years. I've had my own

life, which they're not a part of and they didn't know anything about. Their kind of perception of me was, oh, they went to the city to be a, you know, big shot, where all the crazy people are and the gay people are. And that would probably be the conversation whether or not you were gay, right? I mean, that would be, you're in New York. You're in the big city now. Smell you. Yeah. So, you know, I'm going back. after having my own life now. And then at the first step in there, I'm seeing pictures of my father's a young man,

which I'd never seen before, that looked like Murray. So it was just like, and then, you know, I went in there, and the first thing that I did, this is all kind of sad and depressing, but I saw my mother, you know, it's all Catholic stuff, you know, praying in front of him.

I was, you know, at the wake. And I walked, that was the first thing I saw. And it did human, her for me because I never saw any love between them. So to see her mourning him, whatever the intentions were, like if there was love there or if she just dead, I don't know, I didn't know. But I saw her as a human being with a heart, maybe for the first time. And I was like, that was very moving.

And, you know, and I wanted to go to, I wanted to go to the funeral to honor my father, even though, and that's kind of like the familial loyalties, right? Like, I didn't have to go. A lot of people probably wouldn't have gone if they were in my shoes. But I did want to respect the fact that he was my father. And I think when you get older, you can, there's almost kind of two choices, right? You can, you can grow up and go through your own shit and have empathy or you can go and repeat all those cycles. It doesn't seem like there's a little, you know, it's kind of like you can go a different path. So I've always had a lot of empathy in my heart and, you know, and when I saw her and I saw him, it was like that anger that I've been, you know, that stuff was kind of like, you know, it was hard and traumatizing and therapy and crying and, you know. and then when I got out

but it was just like you know if you've been to therapy if you live in the dark you have been you know you know that they did what they could they you know

I have I've had many shrinks and one of my shrinks would always say you know you they're untreated these are people that have not been treated and you have been now so it's now it's my responsibility

to treat myself, but also look at them in a different way. And that's hard to do. Yeah. It's really, really hard to do. I was looking down because there was something that you wrote in your book, and I know I have taken you places, and I appreciate that you've allowed me to do that. Showbiz. You know, that I know it's difficult, but there's something I wrote down, and I just can't

find it right now, but you had said that you hoped that someone would read this book and that it would do something for them, that it would help them understand themselves, better in hearing your story. And that's why I really appreciate you going to these places because sometimes you tell your story because someone needs to hear it. Well, I mean, Michelle, I read the first book I read that I remember, Celebrity Memoir, was I, Tina. And that book, consciously and unconsciously, was a blueprint on how to get out. And I didn't know it at the time. And I'll thrive also on the other side. Yes. I mean, and her strength and the way that she's lived her life and, you know, it is, you know, I became instantly, and she's spirituality to me, just her essence and

her strength and her vulnerability and everything. But what was the question? Oh, yeah, the story. So the first book I read that helped me was I, Tina. And then I read all kinds of celebrity, like Sammy Davis, Edda James, little Jimmy Scott, all of it, and all of them have been through hell.

And Viola Davis's, Viola Davis' book really impacted me the most recently because she goes there, but she goes there in a way that was almost lyrical.

Like that's all the details and it's all that stuff. It's like, you know, she's dealt with racism. sexism, abuse, poverty, all ageism, all of this stuff over and over again, even after she's won the Oscars and the awards, the fair pay, all of this stuff. And, you know, you always look at people and people look at me like this. And so this, I'm getting back to, if I get off track, I'm going back to why I'm doing this book, is you just see this, right? But you just see Viola Davis giving these profound speeches. And if I didn't read that, book, I wouldn't know all of this multi-layered trauma and society and all the stuff. And look at her.

Yeah. You respect her craft even more because you know. Yeah. But, you know, her life informs her, she can perform like that because she's in touch with that stuff. So, you know, I, my therapist literally was the one I've had forever. She was like, you know, the world has changed. Language has changed.

Drag and personas have changed. She's like, she was like, it's time for you to tell your story. Like all of it. Because I definitely left things behind. So this book was really, and this is kind of where Fred Rococo and somebody somewhere, you know, I had a lot of parents, a lot of kids, trans kids come up to me and be like, you're a role model. this and it's like they're just seeing you know me at sunday on hbo and not knowing that you know i went through the mill a couple times so you know in essence the book started as service to that community but it sounds like it also did quite a service for you through the through the

long process of writing the book it connected me with my past to like be one person yeah so so It, so it's a service to the community, which I really believe in doing as a person and as an artist. And for me personally, because it's like, like Viola, everything about my life, whether it's good or bad, has brought me to here. And I can't change what's in the back, but I don't have to hide it now. I don't have to, I don't have to run from it. Like, for example, I would never have said any of what I've said today. Even five years ago. Never.

And in fact, I don't even think I've talked to anybody like this before. Honored. So, well, you know, you're gentle, and I know that you understand things. It's obvious. But, you know, you're creating a place to speak. But I never would. Never, never, never. But again, I truly believe that you tell your story because someone needs to hear it.

Someone's going to hear this. Someone's going to read this book. And it will have the same impact on them as I Tina had on you. I know that. Yeah. You can survive. You can survive anything. I want to talk to you about your role as an emcee because life is a party and you are the host.

And when... I love it. I love doing it. It's clear. And I wonder when you walk onto a stage, do things change for you? Does your... I feel that's a way sometimes in a studio. Like, I walk into a studio and I feel like I'm in a different kind of headspace.

Does that happen to you? Oh, yeah. It's kind of... It's, you know, a lot of comedians and performers talk about this. But, you know, it's wild because when I get on stage, like, I grew up scared. I grew up fearful. And, you know, all that, like, eh, eh, but when I go on stage, it's, I'm fearless. And I think it's, sometimes I feel like it's so pure because I improv a lot.

my whole thing, I read a room, I interact. I'm not like doing crowd work like, me, me, me, me, you know, I'm there conversing. Like, it's a conversation. And I feel like in my life, the only time I'm truly present is when I'm on stage because I am in that room, in my shoes, on the ground, with the people. and I'm not thinking about anything. Like from the, you know, it's informing stuff, but I'm right there, right there, and that's who I am. So it's a freedom and it's an innocence.

It just feels so pure. And I think, and there's a joy in connecting with people. So, you know, it's kind of like writing a book that you hope to people, you know, are impacted by, but I create an environment in my shows where everyone feels accepted. So I'm not a comedian that's chitin on people, taking them down, you know, doing that crass kind of, you know,

like the roasts that you see today, which are horrifying. You know, I'm like, okay, we got gay guys here, we got a lesbian there, this guy's a bottom, and we're all in here together, and we're all accepted. So it's like, it's a disarm,

so the MC role for me has always been about disarming and setting the tone. I don't know that we understand MCs that will because I watched a lot of your tape, and it's clear it's not one act. I mean, you're different, depending on the venue, depending on the room.

There's a real art to that. It's a craft that I probably have hosted like probably 10,000 shows or more. I haven't seen you in person. I look forward to that, but I'm going to sit in the back. No, you'll be good. I'll be like, where's your matching pants? What happened?

What happened to the matching searsucker pants? You know, I'm never mean. I think comedy can go into a mean place. And, you know, that's a whole... Yeah, there's edgy and then there's mean. Yeah. And I think, like, you know, I kind of am like the old Catskills comedians, which is kind of dress like them too, is like, you know,

they were kind of bumbling and, you know, they were like entertainers, like almost clowns. But not in a, you know, a clown way, just like, you know, my job is to make you feel better. Yeah. So it's a full circle moment. What you felt on Commonwealth Avenue at Venus and Milo. I recreate that.

You recreate that. Pretty much everywhere I go. Like, that's my superpower. And I think, you know, show business is a pain in the ass. Rejections, gatekeepers. I mean, you know, bullshit. And I always, and any time I get down, which is, and reject the constant, which is all the time, I try to go back to people and that feeling.

Because when I'm in that room and, you know, and we're all together laughing and feeling safe, like that's, that's where hope lives for me. You know, and this is a little bit of a derailment, but, you know, the world is on fire. And I was asked to go down to Minnesota to see a Andy Carlyle concert when all those ice raids were happening and, you know, all the murders that had been going on in there. And it was a very heavy environment. And when you read in the news of the administration of how people are being treated and how they're being discarded and attacked and killed, all this stuff, if you just look at

social media and listen to the news, you think everyone hates each other. and that you that were fucked right but I went to that concert and there was like 30,000 people in there and I was like so moved because Brandy's mess first of all she just raised a ton of money

for the people affected by ICE but they, I don't know if you know this but they made all these underground networks I'm from Minnesota oh so you know it's what a place and that's community so thank you for going there And that's hope, right?

It's that magic and that hope of being together. And it's not even with like-minded people. There's no way those 40,000 people were all believe the same stuff. But it was a community coming together. And that's what happens in theaters. It's a community for an evening. And if you give people that feeling, then they search for it again. It's hopeful.

Yeah. I mean, they were telling me the underground networks do feed family. that they can't go to work because they don't want to get picked up off the street. Do laundry for them. It was really incredible. But that's, so, you know, kind of going back to the beginning,

I have a little, you know, my family and my upbringing could not extinguish that pilot light. I am so glad you have shared that light with us today. Showbiz. Showbiz. But before we let you go, you know, we always gift our listeners with a recipe.

And I heard you talk about your grandmother's red strips. Which are these, this is a Rhode Island thing. I mean, we have to educate people on what these are. They're pizza that's a long rectangle. Is it a pizza that's cut up under rectangles, or are they cooked as individual rectangles?

It's cooked as a pie, but a square pie. Okay. Right? And it's, now again, I can't cook, and I had no part in cooking these, but they're baked. Okay.

And it's just like a special kind of sauce. which we'll share and a little bit of seasoning and it's not like cheese pizza it's like just sauce just sauce and dough but it's a thicker dough and I mean

I can't tell it I can taste it right now like I would just eat like three of them Rhode Island Red Strips and the thing is my grandma would make them and then individually wrap them in tin oil and put them in the fridge and I would eat them cold

cold. I still eat cold pizza today. I love cold pizza. But cold Rhode Island red strips is going to be your most popular downloaded recipe of your entire show. It is so good. Okay, so we get the red sauce recipe from you and the dough recipe. All our recipes are on our website at your mama's kitchen.com. Marie Hill, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you, and I'm looking forward to having a cup of coffee.

Who's got the damn coffee? Well, that's it for this episode of your mama's kitchen. If you want to join us in the kitchen, email us a voice memo or a message at yMK at acast.com. That's the letters, YMK at A-C-A-C-A-S-T.com. Tell us a story, send us a recipe, just say, hey, we want to hear about your mama's kitchen. And if you tell us a story, we might just feature it on an upcoming episode. I'm Michelle Norris, host and executive producer. Your Mama's Kitchen is an A-Cast Originals production.

Our lead producer is Maddie Fully. Producers include Taylor Williamson, Sarah Schlead, and Joya Put-Noin, along with Melissa Bear with Say What Media. Our editor is Grace Lynch. The executive producer team includes Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Booking support from Angela Paluso at Day Moon Talent. Our show's closing song is 504 by the Soul Rebels. Special thanks to Martha's Vineyard Community Television

and Clean Cut Studio in Washington, D.C. We're glad you're here. We hope to come back next week because guess what? We are always, always, always serving up something special. Stay vulnerable.