Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - How Tig Notaro Learned To Be Funny Through It All

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Comedian, actress and writer Tig Notaro joins us to share some of the most valuable lessons she learned from the darkest times in her life and how she uses comedy to get through it all. She dives into the nature of Southern eccentricities and how her mother's headstrong personality shaped her own sense of humor. Plus, she shares how to make her mama's vegan gumbo.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Your Mama's Kitchen is brought to you by Rivian. My mother was so much not a cook that she would feed us all three meals at once in our high chair and then hose us down so she didn't have to cook or clean anymore and then just let us run around the backyard to dry off. Breakfast, lunch and dinner all at once? That's what she said. I'm sure it wasn't our entire childhood, but I think she experimented. You know, she was doing her best. I'm still alive. I'm here. What do they call that intermittent fasting? Oh my God. The longest fasting of a two-year-old. Hello, hello, welcome back to your mama's kitchen.

This is the place where we explore how we are shaped as adults by the kitchens that we grow up in as kids. Not just the food, all the stuff that goes on there, the sibling rivalries, the homework at the kitchen table, the music on the radio. I'm Michelle Norris. And we're in for a treat because our guest today is comedian and fellow podcaster Tignotaro. She's made a name for herself on comedy stages with her brilliant brand. of deadpan humor, her ability to make anything funny, and I really do mean anything. And I'm talking about the good stuff, the bad stuff, the tragic stuff. She does it all. She wrote, produced, and starred in the critically acclaimed one Mississippi. It was based on her life. And on top of that,

she co-host a weekly podcast called Handsome. And she also produced an upcoming film that we're all excited about. It's called Come See Me in the Good Light. It follows two partners who deal with an curable cancer through love and laughter. And she knows a little bit about juggling love and laughter. You can see, come see me in The Good Light will premiere in select theaters and stream globally on Apple TV Plus on November 14th, 2025. TIG, we have been waiting to talk to you for a long time. I'm glad we could align our calendars so we could make this happen. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you for having me. Thanks for your patience. Oh, you know, you're worth waiting for. I'll wait until the end of the episode.

We'll see. But I'm confident of that. Now, you know how the show works. We talked to people about the kitchens that they grew up in. You moved around a little bit when you were young. But if you would take the kitchen that you remember the most and a young TIG, I guess that's what they called you even when you were young. I read that your brother gave you that nickname.

Yeah, when I was two. Yeah, early on before you could probably even pronounce. dig yourself. What was that kitchen like? What did it smell like? Give me a picture of it. And was your mom at the stove? Was she on the phone? Was she moving about? Yeah, I can't say I grew up in a very typical home with a typical kitchen situation. My mother was not, she wasn't much of a cook. She used to always jokingly, but seriously, feed everyone by candlelight so they couldn't see how much she burned everything. So we're having a romantic dinner tonight. We're turning down the light so you don't see how charred the chicken is.

Yeah, I mean, people would come over and my mother and stepfather would be having dinner by candlelight. And my friends would say, that's so nice, like how romantic that they eat like that every night. And I was like, oh, it's not romance. It is, she was trying to hide the cooking. And my stepfather was actually a chef in the army. He was a cook in the army. And he kind of leaned towards gourmet cooking when he was in charge. But he rarely cooked.

So I didn't, I don't really have those, oh, you know, my mother. I'd come home and I'd smell this or this was cooking. I remember my mother one time actually saying, sweetie, do you want me, she said, do you want me to make cookies for you when you come home from school? And I was like, sure. And she was like, well, I was just thinking, I know most mothers do that.

And I thought I'd try if you wanted me to have fresh-baked cookies for you. And I was like, don't worry about it. But there were times that, you know, we would have, this is, I'm realizing that I'm probably the worst guess for your show. Well, a lot goes on in the kitchen besides food. And not everybody, as you say, comes home to milk and cookies or has a mom who is, you know, serving up chicken Kiev in the middle of the week. No. Your mom's name's Susie. Can you tell me a little bit about her?

Yeah. My mother, she was born in New Orleans and moved to the Mississippi Gulf Coast as a child. And she grew up in kind of a, I think the reason she didn't really know how to cook was because she was raised with a lot of money and other people did things for her. and it was kind of a conservative upbringing. And my mother was an artist and a free spirit. And she definitely pushed back. Her personality was all, I think, about kind of escaping that confined. You know, you should do this.

You should act this way. you should and she had she was such a walking contradiction in that she had perfect manners she had perfect posture um perfect grammar all of those things dressed nicely but she would also um she just she was a true rebel um i remember hearing a story of when my mother and father got together he was more, she was from, she was like a New Orleans socialite and my father was from central Mississippi and his family, you know, there were like tomato farmers and John Deere tractor salesman and, you know, that was more his world. And when, when my mother met his family, there is a famous story of when they were, making a toast to the two of them.

She stood up, made the toast, and then threw her glass of wine across the wall and smashed it against the brick. Was that she'd seen that in like Zorba the Greek or something? I have no idea, but my father's family was so stunned and so charmed by her. Like when I went out with my wife to my father's memorial, to visit, well, not just visit, but to be out in Jackson for his memorial.

You see these really, like, small town, country, very kind of quiet, you know, yes, man. Like, they say to me, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am. And, but they talked about my mother, like, she was just the greatest thing that came into my father's life, and they just really appreciated her wild ways. You know, sometimes when people live such constrained lives, they review and applaud people who are willing to draw outside the lines. Yeah. And it sounds like she was.

Yeah, and I've always appreciated that, that there wasn't this sense of, because these are, I mean, really, really small town Mississippi people who embraced who my mother was they embrace me and my wife and family and clip out everything they see on me. And they knew that we were vegan. And, you know, went to the local grocery store and got one of those like plastic covered vegetable platter with the ranch dressing in the mouth, you know. But it meant a lot to me, you know, because oftentimes people's acceptance of, of, um, um, um, um, um, oftentimes people's acceptance of, um, um, um, um, any sort of differences comes from leaving where they live and getting to know different people. And I always kind of marveled over like, wow, that's just pure love and acceptance, you know, because they haven't, they haven't hit Manhattan or Hollywood, California, you know.

Well, that's, you know, the old adage is it's harder to judge from a distance. As Michelle Obama says, it's hard to hate up close. I mean, when you see people, you know people, you get to love them, you get to respect them, you start to embrace them. It's that kind of distance that makes it harder. I noted that your mom drew outside the lines. It sounds like she sometimes quite literally drew outside the lines and used the house as her canvas. I'm telling you. I don't have a typical story for you.

But yes, she did. She was an artist, and the entire back of our house was her canvas. And she, when we were little, it was all art for children. Like she had painted a clown. She painted a donkey so that we could actually play, pin the tail on the donkey. It was just. Is this on the inside of the house or the back of? of the house. The back of the house. Like if I drove up, that's what I would see. Well, you wouldn't see,

because it's behind the house. It's in the back. It's not on the front of the house. Actually, the house has since been torn down and rebuilt, but the neighbors were like on their knees pleading, please can we keep the art like when that new family moved in and knocked the house down. They were just so sad to see my mother's art go. But yeah, I just, I grew up thinking, that was normal that a mother would be using a house as a canvas and even with uh talk about kitchens this was in mississippi when the kitchen i was talking about where the phone was in the kitchen and people were coming and going that was in texas but this house in mississippi was where the painting happened and also when my brother and i were in high chairs maybe you

heard this too, but my mother was so much not a cook that she would feed us all three meals at once in our high chair and then hose us down so she didn't have to cook or clean anymore and then just let us run around the backyard to dry off. Breakfast, lunch and dinner all at once? That's what she said. I'm sure it wasn't our entire childhood that I think she experimented. You know, she was doing her best. I'm still alive. I'm here. What do they call that intermittent fasting? Oh, my God. The longest fasting of a two-year-old. And she said she would also, to try and give us a balanced meal, she would give us lettuce before we even had teeth. She was like, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. So again, she was raised with people taking care of her. and not really teaching her how to do things. It was just being done for her. And my father, I remember him saying that he was so used to being fed like a nice meal.

And then he married my mother. And she would open a can of beans and just poured on the plate and, you know, a can of corn. But he was a cook. He stepped in the kitchen. No, that was my real father. Okay. Okay. My stepfather. My stepfather was a gourmet chef that was, you know, he was rarely in the kitchen as well. So that, uh, do you regret having me? No, no. This is, because, you know, we, we have no expectations. People have all kinds of childhoods, all kinds of kitchens. But I didn't have much of an interest in food as a kid. I was a very picky eater and I, you know, I like cheese and pickles and that was kind of what I was, grape nuts.

Like I was just, no, wait, wait, wait, well, no, no, no, no, no. You didn't just say that, did you? I did. You like grape nuts? I loved grape nuts. I loved the crunch. It's gravel. I don't care. Listen, I'm vegan now, so I pretty much eat gravel. Well, and smile. You know, I did go through a grape nights period myself. I would have grape nuts with, yeah, I'm remembering this now, grape nuts and coffee yogurt. It was a nice combination. How dare you judge me and then it turns out. But I remember though, I mean, they really was. Yeah. They were always on sale. I think that's why I was eating them at one point in my life. They probably tasted the exact same as the cardboard box they came in. So when you come from New Orleans, and you talked about Gumbo and how you still have

hankering for Gumbo, and we'll talk about that a little bit later. And you come from, you really come from New Orleans. Is it true that you're great, how many great, great, great, great, great, grandfather was a mayor. Great, great, great, grandfather was a mayor in New Orleans, which is that, you know, in New Orleans, that's like being king of Mardi Gras. That's, that's a big, big, big deal. not just politically, but it's, if you know anything about New Orleans, the political leadership in that city starts in a special kind of way. Does New Orleans still live in you in any way? Oh, yeah.

I mean, my brother and I used to go, my grandmother lived on St. Charles Avenue in the Garden District. And she had a standing reservation at the Pontchartrain Hotel. and that's where we would eat every night when we would go stay with her for a couple weeks. But yeah, it was such a part of my childhood. And I still feel so connected to it. I still have friends and family there.

But I would say what I consider my hometown is past Christian, Mississippi, which is if there's no traffic about an hour east of New Orleans. And a lot of people from New Orleans have moved to, I can't say a lot because I think the population is 6,000. But there's a lot of New Orleans people that live in Paschristian, whether they moved there, they retired or have summer homes, weekend homes. And you can feel the New Orleans. influence along the coast. So, yeah, I definitely feel a part of it, but I would say I connect a little more to the quiet, sleepy beach town of Pasquashan. Yeah, yeah.

And it was put on the map for some of us after, was it Rita, right? Hurricane Rita, the hurricane that came in. Katrina. Was it Katrina? I couldn't remember because right after Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Rita hit also, and I wasn't sure which one of them hit. The eye of the hurricane, the eye of Katrina actually hit Pastor Stan.

But the flooding, you know, of course, I mean, the flooding was horrendous across the coast there, but because New Orleans is so well known in a big city, it got a lot more coverage. but, you know, Robin Roberts is from Pasquistan and really brought attention to the area. And yeah, so, you know, when that hurricane hit, it felt, I mean, it was very leveling. And it felt like it was so depressing of like, this town's gone, but it's not.

It's thrive. Oh, man, it came back. Sometimes they come back stronger. Yeah. Sometimes they actually come back. stronger. Every summer, I make a promise to myself, figure out how to slow down and try to savor the season. Every time I make that promise to myself, it has something to do with the time that we spend in Massachusetts, where it's where my family gathers every year, everyone comes together, all my

kids, all their partners, many of their cousins, several of our friends. And it's where time does feel like it slows down, where the sunset seem to be more golden, where the laughter seems to be louder, where everything just resonates in a different way. And I know everyone in the world, if you're lucky, you have a special place like that. I know I feel very fortunate to have been able to create those kinds of memories over so many years with my family. And, you know, recently when I was watching one of the younger kids

frolicking in the beach, jumping over these little holes that they had made in the sand. It made me think, we're able to do this because we can come together in one space. And there are lots of people out there who know about Airbnb as a place to stay, but it'd be great if they also thought about Airbnb as a place where they could use their home to host other people so they could create these kinds of memories. You see, hosting is not just about offsetting costs. that's a great thing, but it's about passing on the same sense of belonging. It's about sharing your space so someone else can find comfort and joy and something special in that space that means so much

to you. Another family might be able to stay in your home and enjoy the sunlight coming through the window while they're making breakfast. Enjoy the laughter from board games. Enjoy the simple thing of just reading a nighttime story to someone or tucking someone in and then just walking down the hall and everyone is right there under one roof. With Airbnb, I get to share my memories when I stay with someone, but I also now fully understand that there's a possibility for other people to use their homes to allow other people to create those kinds of memories as well. Your home might be worth more than you think. Discover the potential at Airbnb.com. We all know that food waste is bad for the planet, but that doesn't mean we're ready to start a compost pile or we're okay with having a smelly fruit fly condo compost pail on the counter.

That's why I am so into the mill food recycler. The whole idea is to make keeping food out of the trash as easy as dropping it into the trash. I just add my scraps, and I mean like almost anything. I mean anything, from chicken wing bones to avocado pits to cannilop rinds, and mill runs automatically while I sleep. I can keep filling it for weeks, and it never smells. What really surprises me is the peace of mind. I used to feel guilty every time I tossed out wilted spinach or half-eaten leftovers. Now I just drop them into the bin, open the lid, drop them in, and I know that they're going to a better place.

You can use the grounds in your garden or feed them to your cheese. chickens, but me, I have Mill, get them to small farms for me so farmers can grow more food. You just send those grounds off to farms in little boxes that Mill can provide, and they will turn that back into real food for real animals. That's such a good feeling. It's a full circle moment that I didn't know that I needed. You can have your own full circle moment. Try Mill, risk-free, and get $75 off at Mill.com slash

YMK podcast. That's mill.com slash YMK podcast. You note that that in the South there is a special kind of eccentricity and your mom seemed to represent some of that. She, you know, you noted she painted on the house. She did things her own way. And she was a real prankster. She was always pulling jokes on people, like ordering shots for people and they get water. Yeah. She'd send around the shots to strangers who would, you know, the waiter would be like, oh, it's from this woman over here. And they'd all be like looking at my mother like, oh, thank you. And raising the shot glass and then tossing it back and it's just water. And they thought it was vodka.

Yeah. Or something? Something clear. Yeah. Why would you do that? Why would she? Yeah. Where did that come from?

I really don't know because she is, I think it's the. that pushback in your brain of like you're supposed to act this way, you're supposed to be a good girl, you're supposed to follow the rules. And I think that, I mean, I certainly relate to it. I was diagnosed with cancer in 2012 and I had a double mastectomy and didn't have reconstructive surgery. And afterwards, I kept thinking, oh my gosh, I need to go on stage and do stand. up without my shirt on. And then I'd be like, oh my gosh, I can't do that. I can't do that. And then I'd be like, oh my gosh, I can't stop thinking about doing that. Because I thought it was so funny when I pictured myself just telling everyday kind of jokes about air travel and then not acknowledging that my shirt

is off and my scars are revealed. And it reminds me of my mother. I don't know. I know I got it from my mother, I assume she got it from pushing back, you know, just pushing back and her brain trying to figure out a way to be released and find joy and, you know, I mean, it's not like she had the worst life or anything, but it was, it was definitely she had, there were expectations that just, it didn't line up with who she was. I am honored that you decided to come on here and talk about your mom because in that stretch that you referenced, where you learned you had cancer,

it was also a period where you lost your mother. And it was a three or four months stretch that, you know, I mean, that was like rough road for you. It was brutal. Cancer diagnosis, surgery, pneumonia. I had C-DIF, which is a deadly... intestinal disease. My girlfriend and I split up. And then my mother tripped and died. It was four months and it was hell. She tripped and hit her head? Yes. Mm-hmm. She did. And on the tail end of that,

you still decided to do stand-up. And there was one night in particular. And I really wish that we, you know, could almost drop in a clip from this because it's incredible. You stand. You're at a club called Largo. In Los Angeles. In Los Angeles. It's my home club where I work out all my material before I tour. Well, you worked some stuff out that night. You began by telling the audience, hello, I have cancer, essentially. Yeah.

How, I was trying to think about how to ask this, because I was thinking, how did you find the strength to do that? But it sounds like it wasn't finding it. It was something that you had to do. Yeah. I before I had cancer I was I would say I would fall into the category of an observational comedian so everything was just out there and I would comment on what I saw and a funny interaction I had with someone and then when I all of that stuff happened and I had that show still booked and I decided to go on stage because I also, I didn't, I had seen my mother, I had seen how quickly health and life just goes away. And, and I just went on stage with this feeling of, I've already

lost everything. So I'm just going to see if I can make this funny because I don't know if I'll be able to do stand-up ever again. I don't know if I'll be alive. I didn't know what was in my future. And so, yeah, I think that was also that part of my mother that lives in me of, of, I mean, she, she raised me to say, to tell everyone to go to hell if they have a problem with me. And I just, I had that in me, not in an aggressive way, but just if I went home and I said, oh, somebody said this or, this happened, she'd be like, tell them to go to hell. Tell them all to go to hell. And when you're raised with that, there is this, I don't know, the power it gives you of, especially if it's not used in an aggressive way. And it's just in a quiet, like, it's quietly in me that like, they can go to hell. And so I think I felt that going on stage. Like, I have no idea what's going to go on,

but I have to do this. And if anyone's got a problem with it, but nobody had a problem with it. I mean, it was the most incredible experience. That audience, nearly 300 people, I say it every time. They were exactly the right people that were there to receive what I was saying. going through. Yeah, the set is available. There's a, you can watch it. I recommend that people do this at one point. You can listen to it.

There's no video. It's just audio. You can, you can listen. They can stream it and you can listen to it. It's called live. There is one point where you're apologizing to the audience. Yeah. And they're like, no.

Yeah. No, keep going. Yeah. Yeah. It was unbelievable. That guy that yelled, he was like, this is fucking incredible.

Yeah. Don't stop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it helps me keep going. You know, when you're a parent and you are now, yeah. You've got two kids.

You give them advice that you hope will live in their head. And it sounds like your mom was giving you advice that actually does live in your head. But it sounds like she was saying, go to hell, but she was also kind of telling you, be who you are. Absolutely. Be where you are. And everybody else will adjust. Yeah, she used to, I remember she wanted me to come out to my brother and he and I were at such different places in our lives. I was like a high school dropout smoking cigarettes and wandering

around Colorado and my brother was like off at college and, you know, just doing college guy stuff. And I had come out to my mother and she was telling me that I really needed to tell my brother. And I was like, no, what? I don't want to talk to him about my sexuality. And she was like, sweetie, that's what's going to build the bridge between you two is to keep the conversation open. And I was just like, no way. And he was in Colorado. I was in Colorado.

She came out to visit. We were in his Jeep. And she was in the front seat with him. And he's driving along. And she said, you know, you. You got to stay open in life. You got to be open to change. You got to be open to people.

And my brother's like, I don't know. And she's like, but really, like you can't be. And she just kept going on. And I was saying back there going, oh my gosh. And then she just said, TIG's gay. And he goes, wait, she came out for you. And he goes, I know. And I leaned forward.

I was like, you know, I was gay. And he was, yes, of course. I know you're gay. But her whole feeling, what she was also saying was she said, life is all about change. And if you don't keep up with it, it's going to leave you behind.

And she would tell us that all the time. You just got to keep rolling with the punches, keep rolling with the change. And I really try to live by that. Did you first come out to your mom? I first came out to my aunt. My mother's sister? My father's sister.

Your stepfather's sister? No, my biological father. Because we have an extended family here, so I just want to. No, my father's sister. And I remember crying and telling her, and she said, let me get this straight. You're crying, telling me that you love somebody. And I was like, yeah.

And she said, you know, a lot of people go through this life, having never loved anybody. So you're very lucky and it's nothing to cry about. And I was like, wow, wasn't expecting that. Even though she was very, she's so liberal and open and, you know, move from Mississippi to California. But it was a good starting point. And then I told my mother and my mother was accepting, but for some reason, she was surprised. And whenever my mother was even remotely uncomfortable, she would move air from one cheek to the other, back to the other, to the other. And when I told her I was gay, she started to him.

And I said, you're uncomfortable. of all. And she said, no, I'm not. I said, yeah, but you're doing that thing where you move the air from one cheek to the other and back and forth. And then she just laughed. And she said, maybe a little. I was, I was a little surprised. But that turned into beyond acceptance. I remember her telling me she was at the gym working out. And some guy, she said, was kind of flirting with her and made some comment about, out some gay guy. And she said, oh, uh-uh, uh, I'm talking to the wrong person. My daughter's gay. So, but yeah, I was never shunned by my family or anything like that. Beautiful story your aunt shared. Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciated it.

When you were young, I'm trying to imagine, I heard a lot about your mom, but I'm kind of curious about a young Tignitaro. You were you always funny? I believe I was. I mean, I was the classic class clown. I was, I was that for attention or was that? Probably. I mean, I have, I don't know. Probably.

It was also my mother's mentality that I soaked up. I remember her really good friend coming to see me perform in Houston. And when I got off stage, she was like, you got that from your mom. You know that. Like, don't you think that you were just born? And I'm a very kind of mellow version of my mother. My mother, you know. She was more intense.

She was just very gregarious, very much, I always say that nobody ever says, I think I met your mother. You knew, you knew. Yeah, nobody ever would say it. Like, oh, Susie, I think I met her. No, no, no. You would remember. You would remember.

And it was everything about her voice, the way she entered a room, the way. Yeah, she was a dancer. Talk about what was going on in the kitchen. When she was making anything, she was dancing. I mean, she was always dancing and listening to music. And it was like between the kitchen

and the pots and the pans and the sink and just always moving. And as you said, she was a prankster. And she just, Yeah, and she had a very thick southern accent. I'm your mother, you know.

And you got none of that accent. No. And my father really pronounced his ours, you know. Okay. But I moved around a lot. I have to go back to that image, though. I love that, that your mom may not have cooked well, didn't really know how to cook.

But she was going to have a lot of fun doing it. Yeah. Yeah. The music is going to be out loud, and we're going to dance. So we're just going to have a good time. Yeah, yeah. So you took a lot of that from your mom. You were a class clown.

I read that you didn't like school, though. I failed three grades and dropped out. I have a seventh grade education. And then I got my GED, and then my cat ate it. You know how it's like, where's... Back up. Back up. You know how.

I can show it to you. It's on my office wall. Oh, the cat regurgitated it and you framed it then? The certificate was sitting out on the kitchen table. And, you know, it's like, where's your homework? Oh, my dog ate it? Well, I got my GED, which my mother and stepfather were like, well, if you're going to drop out, you have to get your GED. And so I did because they said it was so important.

Uh-huh. And I did. I did. Online? No, no, I went. No, this was in the 80s, you know. Okay, so we weren't doing that online then. And then I left it on the kitchen table and my cat bit out two corners of it and then bit like just holes in the rest of it. And then I was like, this is so incredible. So I just

Okay, that's like Southern Gothic right there. What do you think the cat was trying to say? There's some deeper meaning there. Well, what I would say to my mother. and stepfather. I was like all the importance you put on this GED, it ultimately ended up in the kitty litter box. So nobody has ever asked, can I see your GED? Like I have managed to get through life without, now people want to see it because I tell him my cat ate it. Did you drop out of school or did you just drift away? I dropped out. Like a declarative, I'm not going back again. Yes. I was, You know, I was not well behaved.

I was... What does that mean? I was just, you know, disruptive. I'd make little quips. I didn't do my work. I just didn't... I wanted to get out of there. And...

You saw yourself as a rebel? You were smoking cigarettes? Oh, yeah. Skipping class? Skipping school, smoking... Yeah, yeah. I was never, like, into drugs or drinking or anything like that.

I just, I just, I don't know. It just wasn't my thing. And so I had gotten in trouble for something. It was always like talking and disrupting class, you know. And I ended up in in-school suspension. Yeah, yeah. It's like the film, The Breakfast Club. Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing.

And so I was sitting, I had one day of in-school suspension. And when you have the, that they have your teacher deliver your schoolwork for you to do it in your little pod or whatever, you know, cubicle. And I didn't do school work. So when, when, when, it was not my ministry. Yeah. I just don't do school work. Right. It's not my thing. So when they were dropping it off, I was like, well, I don't know who they think. is going to be doing this, you know? And if you, even if you were assigned one day of in-school suspension, had your schoolwork delivered, if you didn't finish your school work, you get days

added. So there was no way out. I was never going to be getting out of in-school suspension because they didn't do school work. And so I just thought, oh my gosh, I could just leave. I could just, I'll just quit school and head home. And your parents said what? Well, I remember when I got up from my cubicle and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm leaving. I got up and I went to leave and the coach was like, no, no, no, stood at the door. Where do you think you're going? And I said, oh, I'm, I quit. I'm quitting school. And he couldn't, he was like, oh, and had to let me go. And I went home and And I told my mother and my stepfather, and I think it was just kind of a feeling of they were worn down by me, you know, because I had really failed a lot. And I had really, I just wasn't a good student. And so that's where they were like, okay, you need to get a plan and you need to get your GED. And so that was, I got the GED. I didn't have a full plan.

I was really into music, so I thought, well, maybe I'll work in the music business to be around what I love. And so I did that for a while. You know, I have listened to you. I've watched you. You are a quick thinker.

And there's something that's very cerebral about what you do. So I wonder if there's a message that you might, if there's a teacher listening to this or someone, I mean, what, you know, what, because schools are so rigid that they're not made for everybody, you know, all kinds of minds into that schoolhouse building and not everybody is well served. What could they have done? Well, you know, I do want to say I give every teacher of mine 100% credit because as soon as somebody hears that I was in Texas,

they say, oh, well, you got lost in the system. And it's not true. I had teachers that were my teachers. I had teachers that were not even my teachers that took an interest in me. In fact, my vice principal, who I have remained in contact with because I got in trouble so much and who helped guide me through the hardest years of my childhood and my life, they all did so much to help me and they they cared so much so much and so i can't say they could do anything differently um and i was kind of one of those weird kids where i was always in trouble but the teachers they really liked me and they really cared about me and i just it just wasn't the place for me. And as soon as I got out on my own, I found my path. And so I really, really give so much credit

to the teachers that really tried to help me out. Right on. So your mom sounds like she was supportive. Your dad, though, from what I understand, was... My stepfather. Your stepfather. I mean, clarify that. Your stepfather, or as someone say, your bonus dad. was much more rigid. Yes. And by the rules kind of guy. And dropping out of school usually isn't in the rule book. No.

So how did he handle that? He was disapproving, but he went along with it because, like I said, I think I just wore everyone down. And he was somebody that I was not terribly close with, and I clashed with. and he was in the military, he was an attorney. He was from New York City. He just didn't understand me at all.

And it wasn't until my mother's funeral. We were driving away from Pasca Shan. And it was the first time I ever saw him cry. and he started apologizing to me. He said, you know, I wanted to apologize for something. This was leaving my mother's funeral. He said, I want to apologize for something I said. And I was baffled.

I mean, it was truly like a robot was coming to life. And I said, what? And he said, when I told you that your career was a waste of your time and your talent, He said, I realize now that I was projecting onto you. This is through tears. This was like a robot finally crying. And he said, I realized that I was projecting onto you the path that I took and that I thought everybody was supposed to take. And I never understood you.

And I didn't take the time to learn who you were. And he said, he said, what I'm realizing now. And this is unbelievable. This came from this person. He said, I realize now it is not the child's responsibility to teach the parent who they are. He said it's the parent's responsibility to learn who their child is. And I did not do that. And I'm sorry.

And I was like, stunned. And I thought, if my mother could have heard this, but I also feel like if I could talk to her and I said, oh my gosh, Rick said that he, she just would have been like, sweetie, whenever it came, it doesn't matter if I was there, just the fact that it happened. And he really cracked open. And he was who I had to call when I was, you know, when I had cancer and it was uncomfortable because I had to call. talked about my boobs with him. I was like, I had breast cancer. Like, there was nothing, I didn't want to talk to him about anything. And now I'm like, that's my parent that my father had died at that point too. And so I was calling this person that used to be a robot in my life. And then

he, you know, paid for and hosted our wedding with my cousins in Mississippi. And when Max and Finn were born, he was there all night for their birth and would come out. He just really cracked open, 1 million percent. I love that you share that story because I think we need to understand that that's possible. You know, it doesn't always happen. I think if we're honest, it usually doesn't happen. But it's really beautiful that it happened to you. I feel so lucky.

And in fact, when he died a couple of years ago, my whole life, he told me everything, because I'm so impatient as a kid, I mean, most kids are, but he would always say TIG, it's a process. Life is a process. Everything has a process. You have to slow down and go through the process. And so that's always... I want to hear that. What's that? No, no, no. kid wants to hear that. But what's incredible was when I was at his side when he was dying, it was me and him. He was on a ventilator. He was totally conscious and he was ready to go. And the doctors, nurses, they said he is ready. Can you please confirm with him and tell him? and I said, Rick, they said that you are ready. Like he was only communicating through nodding his head and shaking his head.

He couldn't talk. And I said, they said that you are ready. And I just want you to know what that means. I want to make sure you understand that when they take the breathing to about that this will be no more. and he shook his head, yes. And then somebody came in, grabbed the doctor, said there was an emergency that he had to be pulled to. And he left and the doctor said he would be back. And after a while, Rick was waving his hands and the nurse was like, he wants to go.

You know, he's ready. And I had that moment where I could come full circle. And I said, Rick, the doctor was pulled to an emergency. And I said, just as you told me my whole life, it's a process. And he'll be back, but we have to be patient. And he put his arms down and he nodded his head that he understood. And it was really unbelievable to me that I could return his lesson to him before he died. Beautiful moment of grace.

You're a parent now. Yes. Who do you draw from in your own parenting style? And do you find yourself saying to your two sons, it's a process? You know, I don't think I've said that to them, but I probably should. I, you know. Do you tell them to tell folks to go to hell if they don't understand them? No, I don't tell. I haven't told them those things. It's so interesting. Like, Stephanie came from New York and California and had a more, I mean, you know, neither of us had the perfect life. But I really grew up out on boats and

riding in the back of pickup trucks and skiing in the swamps. And so there was like a level of, I mean, my mother would put us to bed and go out and tardy with friends. It just wasn't at all in the slightest bit, a traditional upbringing. There was not a lot of safety. And when I got together with Stephanie, we call, Our kids call Stephanie City Mouse, and they call me Country Mouse. But there is a, we've had to kind of meet halfway. And of course, I would never want my kids water skiing in the swamps with alligators. But I also want them, I want them to have some kind of freedom on the edge in ways.

but I also love what Stephanie has brought in that she's all about safety. And I appreciate it so much because I don't think I would have been that way unless I was with her. And so I think I really carry with me what my stepfather said, which is to learn who my kids are. Let them tell you who they are and follow that. more than anything, I'm really thankful for Stephanie's parenting. Who cooks? Well, she's filming a movie in London for a couple of months, so I've been doing what I can. Are you saying you don't usually cook, but you now have to cook?

I throw some things together. I feel like my strength is I can look in a refrigerator or pantry and whip something up. Whether you like it or not, that's to be determined. And you're a vegan household. We are. We are fully vegan. Kids are vegan also. Kids are vegan as well. And that actually is what made me enjoy food more than I ever have is I'm very, after I got so ill, that's when I made the shift. and I can see firsthand how much better I feel. And I'm also seeing food preparation as an art in a way that I didn't before

because you can have a key lime pie that, as weird as it may sound, is made of avocado and lime juice. And my uncle was just in town eating that. He was very skeptical at first, and he took a bite, And then he bought the cookbook of the restaurant we were at. But yeah, my interest, and we make vegan gumbo now for the holidays. And that was some Stephanie used to do with my stepfather, who was the chef. And they would make a vegan gumbo.

We would do that every Christmas Eve. And we still do it even now that Rick's gone. I'm going to talk to you about that because we always gift our listeners. with a recipe from our guests. And that's the recipe that you shared with us for vegan gumbo. Now, this is, I took great interest in this because we do Christmas gumbo also. Oh, amazing. Yeah.

Yeah, we do it. And it's, you know, this is the beginning of gumbo season because I start to get the pot ready and start doing the pre-gumbo for the gumbo. So the thing that's interesting is I could hear, I could almost feel the exasperation. And I related to it because I make gumbo every year. making the rue stir for one hour. Yeah. And to go back to how much of a robot Rick was,

he would stir for an hour, no complaint. And always the heat of the pot would burn his hand, but never said anything. Oh, he'd have that. Well, that's a sign of a real cook. You know, when they use the wooden spoon, because you always have to use a wooden spoon when you make your rue and you kind of hit the pot a little bit to make the flower dance.

And is there a secret ingredient that you did not include in the recipe? Stephanie, unless she has some secret ingredient that she's not sharing, I would say this is way more her department and was really her department with my stepfather. Well, it's wonderful that you wrote it down, especially for your boys, because they will always have this. I make gumbo, I have not written my gumbo recipe down and my kids. I just always say, you have to come, you have to just do it with me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what I did with my mother, who never wrote her gumbo recipe down.

Well, I'm going to try your vegan gumbo. Are you really? And it'll be different for us because, you know, we are from a different planet. I make my rue with bacon fat. Okay. So, yeah. Not very vegan. No.

No, no. But that's what my mama did. Yeah. Well, that's what I do. But I look forward to trying this. It looks like a righteous recipe. I'm going to enjoy it. Maybe one day we can make gumbo together. I would love that.

I would love that too. Yeah. We have to skip the bacon, though. That's okay. That's, that's, I'm okay with that. We can put it on the side. I have loved talking to you. This has been a wonderful conversation.

I knew it would be. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for making time. Thank you for opening your life story and your heart. And do send us a picture of that, that GED. Yes. I will. I'm looking at it right now. It's true. People are like, that can't be true. I'm like,

okay, what a weird lie for me to make up. Yeah, no, I'm glad you have evidence. Love you, love this conversation. Thanks so much. Same. Thanks so much. I knew I would love that conversation. But before we let you go, I want to remind you that our inbox is always open. You can send us your thoughts on previous episodes. You can send us your mama's recipes, maybe memories from your own kitchen. You can make a video or a audio recording, and you can send that to YMK at higherground Productions.com for a chance for your voice to be featured on a future episode or maybe one of those videos to be featured on YouTube since we now are on YouTube as well. If you have a hankering for that gumbo that we just talked about and you want to try making that,

you can find the recipe at our website. That's your mamaskitchen.com. And while you were there, you will find all the recipes for all of the previous. episodes. Hope you come back next week because we're always serving up something delicious. And until we meet again, be bountiful.