Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - Malika Andrews Found her Sportscasting Voice in the Kitchen

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

ESPN Sports journalist Malika Andrews takes us back to her childhood kitchen in Oakland, California where she learned to speak up and raise her eyebrow (when the situation called for it). She opens up about what it was like to grow up in a multicultural household and how she dealt with not looking like her personal superhero -- her mom. We hear about how Malika strives to be an inspiration for the next generation of young women hoping to break into sports. Plus, we learn how to not skimp on the butter when making her mama's special carrot cake. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of The Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.

Food Network Obsessed is your podcast for all things Food Network. I'm Jamie Syer and I talk with your favorite chefs, food influencers and Food Network personalities. They tell me all about how they started their careers, who and what they've been influenced by, and what it's like to cook in a Food Network studio. You'll hear from stars like Alex Gornaschelli, Guy Fieri, and Bobby Flay. Listen to Food Network Obsessed wherever you get your podcasts. My mother is beautiful. She has this beautiful reddish, she says it's not reddish blonde,

but reddish blonde curly hair and freckles. And people when I was younger and even today, they would say, Oh, well, you look so much like your mom. And I was like, I don't see it because my mom's white and I'm not. And so when I was a little kid, I asked my mom, am I going to look like you when I grow up? Because I was a kid looking for ways to have something in common with the person who is my superhero, my mommy. And she said, well, no, honey, you're not going to look like me when you grow up.

And I cried because I wanted to have something I was searching for that thing to have in common with my mother. ["The First Man"] Hello, hello, and welcome back to Your Mama's Kitchen. This is the place where we explore how we are shaped as adults by the kitchens that we grew up in as kids. Not just the food, but all the stuff that happened there.

The lessons, the memories, the things you saw on the little TV that was on the counter or out the kitchen window. I'm Michelle Norris and I'm joined today by one of the leading voices in sports journalism, Malika Andrews. Now, you have probably seen her on ESPN. She hosts the shows WNBA and NBA Countdown, and most recently, she joined WNBA Countdown as a co-host for their LA-based show. She's been called one of ESPN's fastest rising stars. We love that. We also love that she's won several awards. We also love that she's the first woman to host the NBA draft. But what we love most is that she's here with us today. Welcome

to the program. Michelle, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here with a fellow Curly Girl. Thank you. Thank you. And I feel like while I'm talking to you, we're in the middle of the NBA playoffs. And so it feels like I have been talking to you every day because you're on my screen in my living room, you know, almost every day. So it's really cool to have you on the screen here and to be able to talk. I love that because that's kind of the hope, right? We kind of say, you know, I'm happy

to sort of be here in the kitchen space, but also I kind of hope that our show is a living room for people that are watching together. Our viewing space is right next to the kitchen. We have sort of a little space where we watch TV. And you know, when you watch sports, you're always talking to the TV. So it feels like we're always debating you, agreeing with you. No, no, no, we don't agree with that. That's the way it is, a little give and take. So we're going to do this in this conversation. And

here we always begin with that simple question. Tell me about your mama's kitchen. You grew up in Northern California. I did. I want you to take me inside that kitchen and go down memory lane and describe it for me. What did it look like? What did it smell like? What do your memories conjure up? This is the happiest I've been to answer a question, I think, in a really long time because it just makes me really happy to think about my mom and her kitchen. My mama is mama C. She always says, yes, my name is Karen.

It's Karen with a C. Oh, okay. She had the most wonderful, lively kitchen when I was growing up. When I close my eyes and think about it, all of the cabinets, my parents, I grew up in Oakland, and my dad's very handy. And so they bought a sort of modest house. They sort of worked to be able to rebuild and to change the cabinets out on. It was a really big deal. They said the kitchen, when they bought it, it was very outdated. They updated the cabinets to wooden and white cabinets. That's something that was a really big deal to my mama.

My mom is a fabulous baker. I'm talking chocolate cake, carrot cake, brownies, chocolate chip cookies. It was sort of a bargaining chip, I think, for me in school because my mom would always pack a treat in my lunch every single day and I would break off that brownie into tiny little pieces and give some to friends. And they always knew when it was my lunch because my mom always baked the most delicious treats to sort of go in them. And she made dinner every single night. That was something that was part of the ritual for my family was that every night my dad would get home around seven o'clock from work.

He was a trainer, a personal trainer. And we would sit and have dinner together every single night. And it's something that I've thought a lot about it because it's not the way that my life looks now where there was a schedule that my mom would pin up to the fridge with a magnet. And she would write Monday for dinner and Tuesday for dinner. So you knew what you were going to have. Exactly what mom was going to cook and she would always do the grocery shopping on the weekends and then she would cook throughout the week. And so she always started dinner

at six o'clock every night. Dinner was on the table at seven and it's something that the four of us would sit down at our kitchen table. It was a round table with a checkered cloth. And we all had our napkins that we had to make last throughout the week. So we wanted to keep them neat. We didn't want to have to wash and waste water washing our napkins. And every night for dinner, we would sit down. Oh, it's used cloth napkins for dinner. Cloth napkins. Cloth napkins for dinner because she didn't she wanted to save water and save paper And so we had cloth napkins for dinner She put a little piece of tin foil over the food

So if my dad got home five or ten minutes late, it wouldn't be cold and then we would all eat dinner together So you weren't waiting for dad if he didn't get home at 6 if he was on the 607 615 We're eating we're is in progress. Go ahead. Yeah, my sister and I would always be taking one little bite and you know, dad would come in and say I need to shower and Kendra and I would be staring at our plates ready to start eating whatever mom had cooked. She was very, the chicken, she cooked a lot of fish. Usually like what Kendra and I were always pushing for like a pasta night. She used to make homemade pizza and she would stretch the dough and she would let us choose the toppings that we would put on it.

And those were sort of staples in her house growing up. But baking is, that is classic mama cooking. So Kendra is your sister, younger sister, right? She's my little sister, two and a half years younger. Mom is Karen with a C. Dad is Mike. Tell me a little bit about your parents. What were their personalities like? Did they both cook or did mom really control the kitchen? Mom mostly controlled the kitchen. Dad had a few dishes that he was meatloaf. Dad was

very good at meatloaf and dad's very good at manning the barbecue. But mom did most of the cooking when I was growing up because dad was... My mom was a teacher and so she would get home around school hours and so it was a little bit more feasible for her to be cooking. I have the best parents in the world. And it's something I don't think I recognized growing up in the way that I do now as I've gotten to know and see other families and other family dynamics. My parents are really really good people and they may be even better parents, which I've come to realize is something that's pretty special. My parents have been together for

33 years, married for 33 years, still married. And they didn't miss things. My dad on the weekends, if there was a sporting event, he was going to show up. My mom, even though she did drop us off extra early to school so she could get to work, she would always drop us off at school. They were kind of omnipresent in my life. And I think when you're a kid, sometimes you look at the freedom of what you think is freedom of other kids who get to do things on their own.

And my parents were always there. And there were times when I was younger, when I found that to be eye rolly or annoying, because I was in a rush. I was in a rush to get there and I was in a rush to grow up and I was in a rush to stand on my own two feet. And now looking back, I realized sort of how lucky I was to have two parents that purposefully and perpetually showed up for me loudly and were that present in my life and they still continue to be. They watch my show every

day. They, you know, DBR it and tape it and come home and watch it after work. Do they give you notes? Yes. The reason I ask is because I was, I hosted a show on NPR for years and my mom used to call me as soon as I got off there with notes every day. And what did she say? I mean, you know, they were always helpful, you know, that you're talking too fast and, you know, you should have asked this question. And I appreciate that they, you know, they were always helpful, you know, that you're talking too fast and you know, you should have asked this question.

And I appreciate that they, you know, it's great that they get to see this, right? Yeah. And that they're interested in it and that they're cheering you on and they're cheering us on and supporting us. You know, I find that whenever the conversation lulled, even back at the dinner table, we would all go around. I sat, there was a window and I sat across from the window and then to my left was my mom,

across from me was my sister, to my right was my dad. And those were always our spots. And whenever someone came over for dinner, it was always like, all right, whose chair is gonna shift? Because that's exactly where we all sit every single time. And anytime that we'd start by talking about our days and everyone would take a turn and mom would go first and then dad and then me.

And then by the time I got to Kendra, Kendra would say, you guys are talking too much. It's my turn. I get to say about my day. But whenever the conversation would lull, we would sort of, we would always go back to sports. We would always go back to basketball. We would always go back to Kendra and my sport teams and what was happening there. And so that was always sort of a love language was sharing food, talking about sports. And so for me, it's just it's an extension of our dinner table conversation oftentimes, because not only do they have notes about, I think you could have asked this question differently or I liked your outfit today or Malika, what were those shoes? My mom always

is on me about making myself small. She's like, you need to not cross your legs to make yourself small. Don't forget to take up space. But in addition to all of those things... That's a good note. That's a very good note. She's always said that. And somewhere along the way, she started to slip in.

Every time you cross your legs, I think you should buy me a pair of shoes. I was like, how does that make sense? But sure, mom, whatever you say, that's fine. But I think that they actually have, they want to be a part of that conversation. They want to add not just what they thought of my performance, but this is my thought on Steph Curry tonight. This is what I think about Jalen Brunson. This is what I saw in the Indiana Pacers game. And so it's kind of cool to have that touchstone too. What sports did you and your sister play? Everything. So my dad is a trainer, sports were much more a mechanism for us to be healthy

kids. And so it was okay, volleyball, basketball, dance, Kendra was big into dance, horseback riding for me, skiing, rock climbing. Oh, so all of the things. We were sports kids. We were the, I don't know how much, we were the go outside and play kids. That was definitely, our family was a go outside and play family. So we were in all of it. So your mom and dad raised you in a cross cultural household. Did that present itself in the kitchen?

Yeah, I mean, it presented itself in the food that we ate and my mom cooked, certainly, because sort of like I said, I think that my dad was much more of the rich foods on the barbecue in a lot of ways. And my mom who is Jewish and her mother is a phenomenal cook. My grandmother would cook a lot of things like rugelach. She made delicious rugelach, which is a Jewish kind of cookie roll-up, if you will, with cinnamon sugar. And some of them have raisins.

I didn't like the ones with raisins so much. And so we sort of had a cross-pollination of food, but I ate a lot more of my mother's cooking. My dad's mom passed away when I was really little. And she, from what I was told, was a heck of a cook. And so my mom tried to learn as many of her recipes as she could, but she was definitely emulating my grandmother as opposed to, I think, she felt a little bit more connected to her mother, my Nana's cooking.

But she tried. She certainly tried to be able to kind of take, especially her coffee cake, she tried to take my grandmother's coffee cake and be able to make that. Mom is white and Jewish, dad is African American. So your mom ventured into soul food to try to learn a little bit. Dip the toe in and my mother does, she always says, well, I make my version of fried chicken. I make my version of, so she's trying different things. But I think it ended up more like a chicken cutlet than it was fried chicken. However, she does make a mean mac and cheese.

She has worked very, very hard to make a mean mac and cheese. That is high praise, you know, because not everybody I mean, usually you are assigned this. It is determined weeks ahead of the holiday who is going to be bringing the mac and cheese. Yeah. And she can bring the mac and cheese? Yeah. And mom makes the mac and cheese. She brings the mac and cheese to Thanksgiving dinner. It is her dish. It's been doubled in the time when she started making it. Now it's twice as big. It's somehow grown and it's been added to Christmas. So mom's mac and cheese and mom's sweet potatoes are very, very good. Okay, tough questions.

She's still working on it. Secret to her mac and cheese, what kind of cheese does she use? This is a good question. She uses, it's not from my understanding, and I am, my husband is on me to start, he said, you can't waste any more time. You need to spend more time learning from your mom and learning her recipes because I've never made the mac and cheese. But my understanding is that she doesn't skip on the butter.

That is really where this comes from. If you try to half the butter or quarter the butter, you can tell. My mom is also very health conscious, so she has tried. She has tried to say, all right, we're going to take half of this. Doesn't work. You have to go full. Sometimes with those dishes, you just have to go full. You just got to go full.

You got to go full in. And you have to put some on top so that you get it crispy. You have to cook the mac and cheese and then put an additional layer of cheese so that that layer of cheese is then the bubbly cheese that goes on top. And that is the chillimong tea cheddar. Does she use breadcrumbs also on the top? A little bit of breadcrumbs, yeah. Sometimes people put a little panko on that.

Yeah, on the top. And on sweet potatoes, does she... Are you on team marshmallow or no marshmallows? I'm anti-team marshmallow. My aunt does the marshmallow and my mother does the candied. And I'm a fan of the, I like the crystallized candied on the outside versus the marshmallow layer on top. Because really I'm just going for the marshmallow.

Everything else underneath is just a side for the marshmallows. I'm on your team. I like the candy sweets also. There's something about it that feels just like a treat when you get just like that crispy edge that almost is like caramel. That's delicious. Yes. It's like having dessert with dinner. It's basically the interior of a pie that's on your plate along with your mac and cheese and mashed potatoes and ham and, you know, chicken and everything else and turkey. Did your mom cook kosher at all? My mom did not cook kosher.

That's a good question. She was not my family was reform Jewish, so not kosher. We did when I was growing up, I would observe Passover, so we wouldn't eat leavened bread for that stretch of time or things like that. But she did not cook kosher. My Nana did not cook kosher unless we were hosting people for a Passover that were kosher. So we talked about you growing up in a cross-cultural household, but I understand from reading a little bit about you that it was cross-cultural in terms of sports also because one of your parents rooted for the 49ers.

Yeah. And the other one rooted for the Raiders, is that correct? My dad was a Raiders fan. My mother was a 49ers fan, but my mother was a stronger 49ers fan than my father was a Raiders fan. So that won out particularly in more recent years when the Raiders have left the Bay Area. And even though the 49ers aren't in San Francisco anymore, they're still a California Bay Area adjacent, we'll say, team.

We're very particular about that. Bay Area adjacent team. Those California teams, they move around a lot. Yeah, and we miss them. The Bay Area, I mean, I'm so glad that the Valkyries are in the Bay now, in Oakland more specifically, that they're showing love to Oakland. I know they're playing at Chase Center, but I think that Oakland is such a good sports town. And I wish that they were going to play more games in Oracle, but Oakland is such a good sports town. And I wish that they were gonna play more games in Oracle,

but Oakland is such a good sports town. And for basketball also. Oh, I mean, growing up going to games, sitting in the rafters in Oracle Arena, back when you could get in the building for $25, $50, it was unreal. And certainly there's some of that atmosphere that's traveled to Chase Center. But going back this year, we were able to go back for All-Star Weekend.

It was actually in the Oracle is where we did the show. And that was so cool and so important to me. And so surreal to go back to Oakland, which is such a big part, I think, of who I am and what built me to be able to actually do a show from the arena that made me fall in love with the sport in a lot of ways was really, really special and really cool. And it was the coolest part of all of this. It's always seeing that pride particularly

mirrored on my dad, because I think my mom too, but my dad is a little bit harder won over. And so he thinks that this is cool. And so to see him think it's cool, that for me is everything because I've always been my dad's little girl and I've always wanted to make him proud. So he thinks your job is really cool. He does think my job is pretty cool. Yeah. Well, your job is pretty cool. I mean, come on. I like to say I have a get to job, your job is pretty cool. I mean, come on.

I like to say I have a get to job and I have to job. I get to do this and that's pretty awesome. What in your kitchen and in your childhood home prepared you for sitting on set, because you all talk a lot of trash. I mean, there is, you have to, you know, there's that don't start no one, don't start no one, be none attitude at the table. And they are really attitude in this. And, you know, there's a gender thing,

we just have to say. And then there's a generational thing because the players who came up even just a few years ago, you know, have a different aesthetic and a different attitude and a different outlook. And so what, what your mom talked to you about holding space beyond her just whispering that in your ear, what happened in the kitchen that allowed you to sit at this table on set and do it with grace and grit and hold your space and hold your own.

Well, thank you, first of all. And I try to walk through the world with the values that my parents certainly instilled, which, like I said, my parents are some of the kindest, most driven people that I know, and that was modeled for me every single day. And I certainly I never saw it as an option to do anything other than put in the work because that's what my parents did. But specifically sitting around the table when it was me and my mom and my sister and my dad, I was facing the window. And so sometimes when I was sitting there and it

would get dark out and I could see my reflection in the window and my sister would be talking, I used to sit there and I would practice trying to raise my left eyebrow. And I couldn't actually do it when I started. I learned how to raise my left eyebrow sitting at the kitchen table at dinner, listening to my sister and my parents talk and working on it with that mirror as the, with that window as my mirror. Okay. Let's see it.

Let's see it. Let's see that eyebrow. If you're listening, I'll give you, okay. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah, it really As well you actually I see it. Yes. Yes. I see it. I Really worked on that left eyebrow raise and that is so what is what is the language of the eyebrow? What are you saying when that eyebrow that well manicured eyebrow goes up? Are we really gonna start this today?

Yeah, because I don't want you to give away your secrets, but that is- That is that eyebrow. Did you really say that? Huh. Are we really going to start this today? And that is something that directly came from the table was that left eyebrow raise. I could not raise my eyebrow and I wanted to be able to, and I honed that skill sitting at my kitchen

table. Well, that's interesting because some of us say that you know, you can't get Botox because I always thought that that would be like a joke on the black lady sketch show or something like that. You can't get Botox because then you can't. Yeah, you can't raise your eyebrows. You can't give people the look you're trying to give them the look and. Exactly. Everything's frozen.

You don't need to say anything. All you need to do is give them the look. And this is a look directly from my mom's kitchen table. Okay. All right. So when did you first use the look on set and what response did you get and how delicious was that? I feel like I was, first of all, for a while, I feel like my eyebrow was, one eyebrow was sort of perpetually just higher than the other. I feel like when I'm on set with Richard and Perk sometimes it's just always raised just perma higher than the other one. But I think in one of my more notable fun interviews that I did a couple of years ago with John Morant, the star of the Memphis Grizzlies, And I asked him whether or not he saw any team in the Western Conference in his way on their path to the NBA Finals. And he said, no, I'm fine in the

West. And I raised my eyebrow and I said, no team in the West. And he goes, no, I'm fine in the West. And it's sort of become a basketball sort of cultural meme. And whenever the Grizzlies now are facing a tough test or a tough series, that sort of quote always comes up. And I just always find it funny because I always see myself going, not in the West, raising my eyebrow to it. And I just think that that's so silly that that's something that as a kid when I was paying attention and wasn't paying attention and Kendra was like, pay attention to me. I was practicing raising my eyebrow and that's directly where that came from.

I love that you were like looking... They thought you were listening and you were looking in the window and getting your eyebrow right. No, I wasn't. I was looking in the, I promise I listen to her now. I do. Kendra, I promise I most of the time listen to you now. Your mother is also an author. She is.

She wrote a beautiful children's book called Coffee with Cream. And it grew out of an encounter that she had with you when you were young. And that's again, talking about a cross cultural household. You know, a lot of people are parenting, grandparenting, becoming guardians to children that might not look exactly like them. Yeah. And that led to an interesting encounter in her interesting book. You want to tell that story?

Yeah, absolutely. So when I was, my mom's an artist. And so she, we would always, when I was a little kid, that played draw me something. And she would draw us things and Kendra and I would fill them in and she's drawing us paper dolls was a big thing that she used to draw us. And I asked her sometimes it would be of us, but sometimes like I asked her to draw me when the spurs were really good, can you draw me a doll of Robert Horry and things like that. And so my mother was always, she's an art teacher now. And when I was little, she worked on a picture book, a children's

book. And the story sort of stems from when I was a little girl, I was always looking for ways to be like my mother, because my mom in a lot of ways is my hero. She is a doer. She does it with kindness. She is always helping out the people around her. And my mother is beautiful. She has this beautiful reddish, she says it's not reddish blonde, but reddish blonde curly hair and freckles. And she's very, very tall, is 5'11". And when I was younger, and even today, they would say, oh, well, you look so much like your mom. And I was like, I don't see it because my mom's white and I'm not. And I have a lot of facial features of my father. And so when

I was a little kid, I asked my mom, am I going to look like you when I grew up? Because I was a kid looking for ways to have something in common with the person who is my superhero, my mommy. And she said, well, no, honey, you're not going to look like me when you grow up. And I cried because I wanted to have something I was searching for that thing to have in common with my mother. And she said, well, honey, but we're alike in so many ways, let's make a list of all the ways in which we're alike. And so we did and I, what are the ways we're alike? Well, we both like cookie dough more

than the cookies when they're baked and we both like to sing and we both like to dance. And they're all these traits that we have that are very, very similar. And then she said, well, what about the ways in which we're different? And I said, well, we are skin colors different. I'm small, time I was like four or five and you're tall. Now I'm tallish, I'm five foot seven. I like to do certain things that you don't like to do. And then at the back of the book, there is a place for you to fill it in with your own kids of the ways that you're the same and the ways that you're different. And I think that there are so many beautiful ways that families are blended now. And it was a way that I felt more like my mom and a way that as a five-year- a four or five year old, I can understand what it

is to live in a multicultural family. And I am and move through the world as a black woman, but it was such a beautiful lesson from my mom of being able to weave in all of the different parts of me that make me me and to understand that as a little kid trying to make sense of myself and frankly a mostly white school and a lot of my peers in my after school programs didn't look like me and I saw them with their parents and I didn't quite understand and it was a way for me to understand. It's a beautiful book and a beautiful idea, and not just for families that are blended.

I mean, oftentimes within a homogenous family, not everybody looks the same. You can be the only one who has dark hair, the only person who has freckles, the only person who has blue eyes or brown eyes, or the person who is called the runt of the family. It's not a nice word to use, but because you're shorter than everybody else. And you're also creating an heirloom by creating that list of the things that you have in common. It's really, it's a lovely, lovely concept. Your mom sounds like she was ahead of her time in terms of being a conservationist, making sure that you ate healthy as an athlete, and your dad is a trainer. And I read also a ski instructor. I mean, you guys were just active. Go out and tackle the world kind of

family. What did that mean in the kitchen in terms of your relationship with food? Were your parents, you know, was your kitchen table like the training table? Were they grooming you for greatness as athletes and the meals that they serve? I think I took it that way. At some moments, I don't think my parents ever intended it that way. I think my parents were always trying to just sort of... My parents were always trying to do what was best and give us things that were balanced. But I didn't have... I remember the first time I ever had a cereal called cat and crunch, because I didn't have... I remember the first time I ever had a cereal called

Cap'n Crunch, because I didn't have it growing up. And you said it the right way. It's not Captain Crunch, it's Cap'n Crunch. There is an apostrophe and it is Cap'n Crunch. And it was like I tore my entire roof of my mouth up eating that cereal because I didn't know that it was going to be so delicious. And I loved sugar so much. But I think for my parents, I just I have so much admiration for the types of food that they introduced us to. Because we ate everything when I was growing up. We didn't eat out very often just because I don't think it was... It's way more accessible now, I think, than it ever was

before with delivery and all the sorts of stuff. But when we would eat out, we would eat out sushi, we would do an oyster bake in the summers and things like that. So we were always a very adventurous eaters. And I think that that sort of shaped the way that I view food now, which is that I want to try everything. Whenever we travel, I want to go to the place that has the cuisine of the city that we're in. I'm trying to figure out what that's going to be if and when we're in Oklahoma City for the NBA Finals or Conference Finals.

But they have very good barbecue. In done. I'm in. It's the one NBA. There's two NBA arenas. And that's one of them that I have not spent more than just like drop in and leave. So I'm excited to go do that. But yeah, a lot of barbecue, a lot of red meat in OkayCity. I can do some barbecue. I can do some barbecue for sure. But yeah, that's definitely my

parents were a, this is what's for dinner. This is what we're cooking. If you don't want something else, then you're going to make it. And that made me try a whole lot of different food. We all know that food waste is bad for the planet, but that doesn't mean we're ready to start a compost pile or that we're okay with having a smelly fruit, condo compost pail on the counter. That's why I am so into the Mill Food Recycler. The whole idea is to make keeping food out of the trash as easy as dropping it into the trash. I just add my scraps and I mean like almost anything. I mean anything from chicken wing bones to avocado pits to cantaloupe rinds and Mill

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Hi there, it's Andy Richter and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, The Three Questions with Andy Richter. Each week I invite friends, comedians, actors, and musicians to discuss these three questions. Where do you come from? Where are you going? And what have you learned? New episodes are out every Tuesday with guests like Julie Bowen, Ted Danson, Tig Notara, Will Arnett, Phoebe Bridgers, and more. You can also tune in for my weekly Andy Richter call-in show episodes where me and a special guest invite callers to weigh in on topics like dating disasters, bad teachers, and lots more. Listen to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. Now you have talked, at least peripherally, around

your relationship with food. And there was a period in your life where it was a little bit fractured, but you had a difficult relationship with food. Would you say it was an eating disorder at some point, if you're willing to talk about that? Yeah. I think that for me, food has always been something that I think about. And I think for some people, food is a passive part of their day that's necessary.

And for me, it's something that is in the front of my mind. And what I've come to know is that's not the same for everybody. And I think being someone who is on television, you're sort of perpetually faced with looking at yourself in a way that I don't know that everybody is, and that a way that I've had to sort of grapple with and learn how to live very comfortably in my own skin, because I haven't always. And so for me, that's been a little bit of a process, but I've always loved food.

And so how do you swear loving this thing and knowing that unlike if you are struggling with certain other diseases and you can avoid if you struggle with something like alcohol, you can choose to be abstinent from it. That's not the choice with food. And so for me, it's having to reconnect with the things that I've loved, like my mom and falling in love with the process of cooking in order to be able to deconstruct that a little bit. But I think that when you work in a public space, you're looking for your own criticisms and the feedback of other people.

And what I mean by that is if I am 100 people say something kind about you, but one person says the unkind thing that you were already saying to yourself, then that becomes amplified. And that's something that I've had to work really hard to shut off that voice in my head that all of us have. All of us have a voice that we actively need to say, you know what, I don't think you're invited to this conversation today. And for some people, that voice is louder conversation today. And for some people that voice is louder than others and for some people that is a everyday or every week type of conversation versus something that's a valve that has been taken

care of and left behind. For me, it's something that I'm constantly a music that I work to turn down in my life. So how did you learn how to quiet that voice? Because it is always there and sometimes you learn how to walk alongside it and sometimes you know, go sit in the corner, lock you in the closet. How did you learn how to tell yourself a different story, not just about food, but about your own space in the world? Because you've also talked about, you know, the difficulty

of being in predominantly white institutions in school, and, you know, figuring out when people are looking at you, what is she? Is she, you know, is she this or is she that? Where are you really from? Yes, where are you really from? Exactly. And so how did you learn how to quiet that voice and then learn how to tell yourself a different story that allowed you to show up as your authentic self on your own terms and not worry

about the voice that's inside your head, but also mitigating the voices? Because when you're as public as you are, you are going to get critiqued. I mean, whether it's on social media or just people seeing you, they feel like almost in the age of social media, I guess, that people feel like it's part of the bargain. They're supposed to critique you in some way. And it's different when it's not your mom and dad calling you and it's someone that you've never met. Right, when it's not your mom saying to not cross your legs or something like that. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think that when I'm

trying to turn down a voice, I often am looking, I try to find what I can replace it with. So for me, I think that for right now in my life, my friends or my husband or my sister, the voice is when you don't believe in yourself or when you're not telling yourself the kindest story, you need to find a different way to look at that same chapter and look at that same situation. And oftentimes, if you can't, you know, what the saying is, do unto others the way you want to be done to yourself. But sometimes I find that I have to do, treat myself as I would treat other people. And if I can't, then I'm going to go and find that voice that I can turn up to try to drown my own out a little bit. And

so oftentimes, that is my sister or Shanae or Dave or other people who are able to see and celebrate your wins so that you can celebrate them too, if that makes sense. Because I think that sometimes other people are as much as, you know, we talk so much about other people being unkind. I sometimes think that I find a lot of kindness from others and I try to beat out for my friends. So how you kind of want that exchange back. And I found that my female friendships in particular have taken such an important center stage in my life

in the last couple of years, people who have known me, my best friends in college, my dear friends who have worked on this show with me, these shows with me for the last couple of years, who are able to give me hard truths when I need them, but also be a hug when I need that as well. And I think that, you know, as you get older and you settle into your, you get married or all of these other things, sometimes I don't think you can find, I don't think you could find everything from one person, including from yourself.

And you are the company that you keep all the time, but that doesn't mean you're perfect company. And so I am oftentimes leaning even deeper into those relationships of people who have seen me shed layers and have been different iterations of myself over the years and have reminded me of how far I've come, remind me of my goals. And I find that to be kind of very helpful because sometimes you can fly at 5,000 feet and you're watching every bump and valley and seeing all of the things that you wish were going differently versus someone who's maybe flying

a little closer to 30,000 and says, hey, join me up here. It's a much kinder lens of yourself. And you can go back down there if you want on this one thing in the safety of feeling like you're doing it for the right reasons. But if it's just to be unkind to yourself, come join me up here. And I find that to be really helpful. Yeah, that's a really good piece of advice. Don't look for opportunities to be unkind to yourself. Yeah. You know, to try to avoid that. And when you're unkind to yourself, you're unkind. Oh, go ahead.

No, I just think that when you're unkind to yourself, that's when you become, you have to be able to celebrate yourself and truly, truly recognize what you have done while also keeping in mind what you still want to do. If you can't do that, you can't do it for other people, but you can lean on other people so that you can sort of create that back and forth that conversation, that vortex that you can be that for someone else, someone else is that for you, you can be that for yourself. Ah, now, okay, we have a back and forth going here.

So you grew up as an athlete, do you think you would be different as an adult if you grew up watching these WNBA players and their justifiable swagger and just the confidence that they have and the way that they throw an elbow and they move through the world and they're fashionable and they're entrepreneurs and they're not even done. They're just getting started. Do you think you would be different as an adult if as a little girl you and Kendra were watching that? The swagger was always there, but the accessibility to see it wasn't, you know? Okay. All right. Understood. And so, you know, I think that I never, you know, like Cheryl Swoops has always had swag,

but her national TV games weren't accessible to people. And the amount of little girls who say that their favorite athlete is Caitlin Clark or that their favorite athlete is Angel Reese or that their favorite athlete is Asia Wilson. I'm not sure I believe there are plenty of people who didn't see it and became it anyways, but it's a heck of a lot less lonely.

I'm not going to say it's easier because it is hard, but it's a lot less lonely to be able to look around and see not just one person, but yourself reflected in multiple different ways in the people that you are watching on television. And maybe it's because you look like a certain player or maybe it's because you talk like a certain player or maybe you dress like another player or maybe you want to emulate this other player's type of game. But to be able to have options, to be able to say,

oh, I see myself here, here and here, that makes me feel at least a little bit more empowered to walk into a room. I might've walked into the room anyway. I had that sort of ridiculous self-confidence that only kind of comes from youth and not being knocked down a peg. But I think that having that,

I hope makes it so that a lot more little girls feel like they have options in this. And also that they can make a living doing this because that also hasn't always been the case. Right. And here in the States without having to go overseas. Here in the States without having to go overseas, multiple leagues now with what they're doing with Unrivaled as well as the WNBA. And then the commercial appeal of these WNBA players, the unbelievable popularity of Caitlin Clark, the fact that Asia Wilson has a signature shoe. That's not something... With that fabulous new ad produced by Malia Obama. It's amazing.

Malia and Obama. Yeah, it's amazing. And to be able to have that and to have it be commonplace is where I hope that we can kind of continue to move toward. You know, when I'm listening to you and I remember something that I read about you, at one point you had said that when you were young and when you're going through just sort of a whole royal of emotions in puberty, you said that at some point your emotions felt like they were outside of your body, like you couldn't contain them, like they were

not just in here, they were out there. And I guess that's what I had in mind when I asked that question. By seeing people who you emulate accessible to you, does that give you a sort of a better understanding of how to navigate a world? For sure. And I think I even feel that now, right? Like I'm 30 years old and I find myself listening to podcasts. I feel like having your heroes be accessible to you. When I was younger, when I was living in New York City in my 20s, early 20s, late teen years, after I graduated college, I would watch Sex and the City. And I would pick the episode of Sex and the City based on how I was doing or feeling that

day. The day that I'm struggling to pay a bill, that's when I'm watching the one where Carrie Bradshaw has to ask to borrow money from Charlotte. It's a very uncomfortable conversation and that made me feel, and as silly as it seems, heard and felt even if that was a glamorized Hollywood version of what I was going through in that moment. And nowadays I find myself actively seeking the advice of women I admire and I can't. I find it when I listen to Michelle Obama's podcast, oh, hey, Amy Poehler just started this podcast. And I find it, I laugh, gosh, I laugh out loud

listening to her and I think that laughter is something we need so much more of and need that sort of medicine, but the accessibility of Our Our heroes that are our matriarchs in particular these days I know I can can only imagine because I experienced such a small part of it how Taxing it has to be in a lot of ways to continuously share yourself with the world. But I do find it to be helpful when I am having a tough day or when I didn't nail an assignment I

wish I did or actually I did nail that assignment but I would wonder how someone else would do it to be able to walk a little bit in the footsteps of those people because they talk about it and because it's so easy for me to go to my phone and to play this podcast and to get to hear that sort of advice. I find that to be incredibly helpful as I'm trying to make sense of everything. I find more and more I'm turning to, I don't have all the answers. This person who I see as one of the smart sort of pillars of our culture does, or maybe they don't, but at

least they don't too. And I feel less alone in that. And I do that all the time. I'm constantly looking for that. And I keep notes in a notepad at home. And then I also have a note to app on my phone that I'm just always jotting down notes about way to move to the world because it's never been more confusing in a lot of ways. But the flip side of that coin is you've never had more companionship in doing so. Can I ask you about Oakland? Yeah.

I'm not going to say that people who come from Oakland have a chip on their shoulder, but they feel some kind of way about Oakland. Yeah. Like, I'm from the Bay Area and I'm not from San Francisco. I am from Oakland. That usually is made very clear. Yeah. So what does it mean to be from Oakland?

And I guess since we talk about food in this podcast is is there a dish that is associated with Oakland like You know Philly has cheesesteak. Mm-hmm. That's a good way. I'm saying because I only ever had I my my husband's from Philly and so I had my first cheesesteak as a now And what was it all that? It was you stick good It was that that's not that. OK, that didn't sound like all that. It's not like I'm not.

All of Philadelphia is going to be upset with me, but I. I could go for other things. OK, all right. Everton Jones, that's like a quintessential Oakland barbecue, like that type of thing. But Oakland, I think is a melting pot. I think being from Oakland is being, it's having swag, which I always felt like I was kind of a dork for Oakland, but that's fine. I think it is... Block parties? Because they seem to always be having black parties. There's a lake in Oakland that they're always at the lake.

Yes. Everyone's outside at Lake Merritt or Lake Temescal. But Oakland is like, it's all the best flavor mixed together. And I think people from Oakland have a chip on their shoulder because for so long, like now I think Silicon Valley and the Golden State Warriors, they built their dynasty in Oakland, even though their last championship was in Chase. I think that that put Oakland on the map in a different way versus before. People sort of knew where Oakland was, but it was just, oh, it's kind of near San Francisco, right? And it is, but it's not. And it's this very diverse, cool, you got your, you have swag when you're from Oakland. You like to go outside, you like to dance,

there's just, Oakland's fun and Oakland is, it's kind of a mixed bag. You can be anything coming out of Oakland. There's not just like one thing except for like heart and a good time. That's Oakland, I think. So you said that your next adventure is in the kitchen, that you're going to teach yourself how to cook a little bit more. Any dishes that you're trying to perfect? A long list of my mother's cooking, starting with her carrot cake. She got very excited

when I asked her. And that's the recipe you're going to share with us, right? Yeah, I asked her for the recipe. Because we always gift our listeners with the recipe. I asked her for the recipe. And you have to understand that my mother, my co-workers ask, when my mom's coming to town, Kendrick Perkins will say, I mean, she's bringing cookies. She makes pumpkin cake, carrot cake, chocolate cake, coffee cake, raspberry, footprint cookies, chocolate chip cookies, snickerdoodles. My mother is a extraordinary baker, Apple pie, pumpkin pie, she is a baker.

My mother loved to bake and brownies, but brownies were so ordinary in my household that she would make them every Sunday just to keep them in the freezer so that we could unfreeze them if we never didn't have dessert. We had dessert every night in my house. As a kid, chocolate cake was what we would request every

one of our birthdays because it is the best chocolate cake. And there's something about when my mother makes it that's different, even my aunt, she will make it and her children will always say, it's good, but it's not Aunt Karen's chocolate cake. Oh, I'm so sorry. It is good. Auntie Rellie, it's so good. It's just, it's not quite mom. And Auntie Rellie makes a great pumpkin cake, but it's just mom is, she's got the baker's touch and even Auntie Rellie will say it. But when I started to get a little bit older, there was something

the carrot cake was always my dad's favorite. It was my mom, it was their wedding cake was my mom's favorite. It was my mom, it was their wedding cake was my mom's carrot cake. It was always what my dad would request. And as I've gotten older, that has become my favorite cake because it is moist, because the cream cheese frosting is just perfect and creamy and delicious. And I am determined and my family got very excited when I requested the recipe. So like, oh, are you going to actually, are you going to attempt to try to meet mom at her level? And I'm going to attempt to try to meet mom at her level.

Wow. I'm going to try. That's big stuff. Now, does she have any secrets? The carrots, of course, are shredded. Yes. Does she do anything special with them? Soak them or anything? And she made sure to send me her notes. She said that she uses one cup of canola oil in

the cake batter instead of butter because too much butter, it makes it so it gets soggy. And if you go the butter route, two sticks is buggy. Otherwise, it gets soggy, she says. And she also uses one bag... Unsalted butter? Unsalted butter. She also uses one bag of carrots, which she then shreds in a food processor. She says you don't need to hand grate them, that just wastes time. Okay, because that is... But you do need to pat them out.

You do need to pat them out to take out a little bit of the extra water. So if you just pat them out with a paper towel, pat them out. And then she says, I make it in one bowl, you start whisking the dry ingredients together and then you add the wet ingredients. You don't need to make it two different bowls. I heard you say you don't like raisins. Does she put raisins in hers or yellow raisins? I am okay with yellow raisins. She does not put raisins or walnuts in mine. If she makes

it for dad, occasionally she will add those accoutrements. So no nuts at all? No nuts for me in my kitchen. Okay, a little cinnamon, a little clove. Yep. It's a little bit of... She hand wrote it out. Preheat to 385, little baby carrot, sugar, eggs, flour, baking soda, cinnamon, allspice, nutmeg, and ground cloves. Okay, allspice. All right. That gives it a little, just a little bottom, a little kick. A little kick. And that's for the cake. But the frosting, you have to get the brick of cream cheese at room temperature. So you got to leave it out to get a little bit soft.

A quarter cup of butter also at room temperature because you don't want to melt it in the microwave because you risk overdoing it. Don't do that. Two cups of confectioners sugar and then two tablespoons of lemon or orange juice. She prefers orange Okay That's a really nice touch Just a little fresh squeezed lemon orange. Okay. That's a very nice touch I hope that you will be in your kitchen during this in and I hope that you will share a video and I hope that you will share a video so we can all see. I know I want some carrot cake so badly.

I love carrot cake. I really love a good carrot cake. I would like to tell you, because usually it has walnuts in it. It does. And walnuts, I guess the walnuts you get in California are probably pretty wonderful, because they're fresh. I just find that they don't all love to walnut lovers, but I find that they don't all love to get to walnut lovers, but I find that they don't add anything for me. Our wedding cake was a carrot cake also, just like my parents wedding

cake was, we decided to go with the carrot cake and it did not have walnuts and it was perfect. There are places that make it with walnuts and I don't find it to be too much, but I never find it's never like, you know what, this is missing for me, walnuts and I don't find it to be too much. But I never find it's never like, you know what this is missing for me? Walnuts. Usually it's like, okay, I'll take the walnuts. I never find it to be what's missing for me. This one is so good. It doesn't need the extra crunch. You find all the dimensions in the ingredients. So I'm really excited for that. And I did do mom's chicken cutlets the other day and

those I did a pretty good job. So we're one day at a time, we're working on it. So and your husband Dave who also works at ESPN, he probably is thrilled that you're learning all your mom's recipes. He is. He's actually the cook in the family. So you can road test them. Oh, I was going to ask you, does he cook also? He loves to cook. He is a very good cook and he loves to cook. He loves to especially like a marinate, like trying, always trying to find the best butcher and marinate, oh, this is a multi hour, this is a multi day.

He gets into it. Last question about the carrot cake. Does your mom do it layered or does she do it in like a bundt pan and then... She does it in a bundt pan. That is an excellent question. Okay. Yeah, because there's, you know, it's a different style. She does it in a bundt pan, turns it over, taps it out so that it doesn't fall out.

Oh, I can hear that when you say that. I can just hear what that sounds like. Exactly. She taps it out and then she frosts it from the outside to the inside. Okay. I think we need to end this conversation because I'm going to go find something to eat. I'm going to go find a snack. I know because I'm going to go find something to eat. I'm going to go find a snack.

I know. I have to mop up the corners of my mouth. I am suddenly very, very, very hungry. I have loved talking to you. I hope that one day we get to get in the kitchen and cook together or lock arms in some way. I will continue to watch you, to root for you, to sometimes have conversations with you on my television. Please. And I will be able to say, hey, to sometimes have conversations with you on my television.

And I will be able to say, hey, I know her. We had a great conversation. We did. And I will bring the dessert. You can bring the dinner and we will make it happen. All right. We'll make that happen. This has been wonderful.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for talking with me today. I loved hearing all about your childhood in Oakland. I love learning how you perfected the eyebrow raise. I'm not going to try it because I can't raise my eyebrow, but how you perfected doing that while looking at an image of yourself in the window at the kitchen table. Thank you for opening up about your relationship to food, your relationship to yourself and

how you learned how to quiet that voice. That's a good lesson for all of us. And I'm so excited for your next frontier. Can't wait to see what else you whip up in the kitchen. If you want to try Karen, Karen with a C's carrot cake, make sure to check out the recipe on your mamaskitchen.com. You can find all the recipes for all the episodes on the web. You can find all the recipes for all of them. I'm so worried about this carrot cake that my mind isn't even working right.

You can find all the recipes for all the episodes at the website. And now that Rivian has lent me one of their cars complete with a travel kitchen, I'm going to be road testing some of these recipes that you'll find on the website. and I will do that when I'm actually on the road and I may be posting some of that so you can see me in my Rivian with my cook kitchen doing my thing. As always, our inbox is open for you to record yourself and tell us a little bit about your mama's kitchen, your memories, maybe some of the recipes, maybe some of the thoughts on some of the previous episodes. You can make a video or a voice memo.

Just make that recording and send it to YMK at highergroundproductions.com for a chance for your voice to be featured on a future episode or your video to be featured when we start airing these episodes on YouTube. I'm so glad you've been with us today. Make sure to join us next week and the week after that, because here at Your Mama's Kitchen, we are always, always, always serving up something delicious. Until I see you again, be bountiful. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not.

I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not.

I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not.

I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm Right. I think a bit of both. It's a mix. Okay. Okay. Zac, sister, be honest. Are you drunk reading fan mail again? I mean, Saeed, I'm not drunk reading fan mail. Wow.

Wow. Okay. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zac Stafford. And we are the co-hosts of a podcast called Vibe Check. On our show, we try to make sense of everything going on in the world and VibeCheck it. Each week we dissect news, culture, and entertainment, everything in between, and we bring our unique perspectives to the conversation. VibeCheck is our group chat,

come to life. You can follow and listen to VibeCheck wherever you get your podcasts.