Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - Matthew McConaughey & Camila Alves-McConaughey

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

In this episode, Matthew McConaughey and Camila Alves McConaughey bring listeners into their marriage, from how they first met over margaritas to cooking steak sushi to make amends. Matthew��s sometimes chaotic upbringing in Texas could not be more different from Camila’s family-filled, farm-to-table childhood in Brazil, but they found ways to connect and thrive together in their kitchen in Austin. Plus, Camila teaches us how to make her family’s Brazilian Chicken Stroganoff, which is apparently better the next day.Matthew McConaughey is a Golden Globe- and Academy Award-winning actor known for his leading roles in films in a range of genres like Dazed and Confused (1996), How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days (2003), and Dallas Buyers Club (2013). He authored his bestselling autobiography Greenlights in 2020 and performs the audiobook. Camila Alves McConaughey is a model, designer, and author of the New York Times bestselling children’s book Just Try One Bite (2022). She also runs the lifestyle website Women of Today.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The kitchen is where everything went down. Kitchens where we cried when we were, the heart was broken from a girlfriend breaking up. The kitchens where my brother Pat got in trouble for getting caught with the bag of weed. The kitchens where we set our gratitude and prayers around the lazy soothes. And the kitchens where we told stories

where I learned as a youngster in my family, if you want to get a story in, you better hit the gap because the gap's not going to be the conversation long. And when you hit that gap, you better be good at it, or you will get steamrolled. Welcome to Your Mama's Kitchen,

the podcast that explores how we're shaped as adults by the kitchens we grew up in as kids. I'm Michelle Norris, and we're joined by not just one but two guests today, a married couple with great chemistry and great stories. I'm talking about the Golden Globe and Academy Award-winning actor and author Matthew McConaughey and Camilla Alves McConaughey.

She's a model, designer, children's book author, and advocate for healthy living. moviegoers have watched Matthew McConaughey spread his wings on screen and roles, ranging from suave slackers to romantic leads, and films like Dazed and Confused, the Wedding Planner, Failure to Launch, and How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, to also more complex and more demanding turns in films like Amistad, Interstellar, and Dallas Buyers Club, which earned him an Oscar. Here's the thing about Matthew. He's known just as much for his off-screen personality, that Texas drawl, his free-spirited attitude captured in his best-selling book called Green Lights, surfing on the high seas with his

kids and his commitment to life as a family man. Camilla had a very different upbringing from Matthew. She was born in Brazil, splitting her time between Rio de Janeiro and her family's farmstead in the country. She came to America when she was a teenager and started off cleaning houses and waiting tables until she launched her modeling career and things took off from there. After meeting Matthew, she found an outwe. She found an outwe. let in sharing what she knew about food, health, and parenting on her website, Women of Today. And she wrote a New York Times best-selling children's book called Just Try One Bite to Get Kids to Be Less Picky about their vegetables. I think you're going to love this conversation. You'll learn a lot about Matthew and Camilla's life, about his journey in a sometimes volatile household in Texas, her rural roots in Brazil, and the life they've built together based on the lessons from the kitchens of their past.

We'll hear about how they split the kitchen duties. It turns out Matthew doesn't believe in dishwashers, the things they cook up to make up after a fight, and what they listen to on the old-fashioned record player they keep next to their kitchen sink. Plus, we learn how to make Camilla's Mama's Brazilian chicken stroganoff. It's delicious. All that and more coming up.

Welcome to your mama's kitchen. Thank you for having us. Yes, indeed. Do you know that this is the first time, Ever, then Matthew and I are doing a podcast together. Is it? First time. In your kitchen.

Okay, we're making history. I love that. I did not know that. Yes. Now that you say it, I don't remember another time. Wish us luck. Oh, we're going to have fun. I don't need to wish you luck.

I'm going to tell people and said, put your seatbelt on. Let's see where we go with this. Yay. So we always begin with this very simple question. Close your eyes. take me down memory lane, help me understand the kitchen that you grew up in and how it helps shape the person that you became today. The kitchen that I grew up in, I had my mom, who she was a working mom, she worked six

days a week, but she still come home and prepared this very gourmet meals. She was kind of like a med scientist. that would just show up and put this, this is that looked like they were coming straight from the restaurant and served to us at dinner time. How did she have time for that? I have no idea how she did it, but she did it. And then I will travel to the farm on my father's side. And it was really my grandmother on my father's side that had this really the farm-to-table relationship with food where they were growing everything on the farm. The cooking was wood burning, and everybody had the job.

Everybody was in the kitchen together. It was like, you know, we need this. You go around over there. And I, you know, I grew up in the big city. They used to make fun of me because I didn't know what herb was what, what spice was what, going in the back to get it. But it was a very collective, everybody laughing, everybody had a job. What did that kitchen look like? My grandma's kitchen was wide open from where you cook to where you clean the dishes to where you sat down to eat.

And in one side, my grandfather built this wood-burning oven in the farm and it's got different layers. And you can bake on the bottom, you cook it on the top. And then to your right would be the big table, just a very simple wood table that everybody cooked to. And I remember on the other side of the table is this door and they had it cut in half. Maybe this is where I like the French doors now because it was kind of a, you know, cut in half and they always left the top open. So you could see the outside and all the animals, the chicken, the pigs are right there. To the right of all of that, you had another door that went into this back patio. And that's where everybody that was working on the farm that wanted to eat it with us,

They would have buckets that they can wash their shoes and everybody, a big sink, everybody washed their hands. And it was kind of a communal thing where everybody did that first before coming into the house to break bread together. Matthew, tell me about your childhood kitchen. What did it look like? And how do you think it still influences you today? Saultio tile floors. That was a big deal. I remember we were living on a high life.

We had some saltio tile floors. What is that? Pardon my ignorance. It was a Mexican tile, but they were like, they were one foot by one foot with grout in between. And it was not linoleum. They were reels, Altio tiles. And that was, I remember, it was in the kitchen because everything else in the house was carpet. But the kitchen transformed was Saltio tiles. We got a big lazy Susan table that seated eight. And that is where we'd gather for dinner. We had a linoleum little bar on the far side of the kitchen that doubled as you cooked on the other side and served out over the bar and it had a big vent over it for steam and behind that was the sink the fridge and things it wasn't a big kitchen

but it was i remember they had a yellow mustard colored linoleum over it it was that my mom and dad they always they loved mustard and olive i think we painted three houses those version of those that's why you like green yellow so much it is i think it is but i like a little brighter than olive and mustard. I'd rather lemon and lime. So breakfast was always at the bar. And it's the first thing when you came in, you passed the lazy Susan on your left. You went from carpet to Saltio-Taio, and you went up and there were four bar stools. And there was always a hot breakfast. Mom was big on breakfast. My mom was not a good cook, but she always made sure that we had hot meals, always. And that's where I remember coming in and maybe being grumpy or not getting a good sleep that

night or being anxious about something at school that day. And if my attitude wasn't great, if I didn't go, wow, look at this. Thank you for breakfast, mom. I went, oh, are we having that? She immediately would jump in and go, get your butt back to your room, get back in bed, and do not come in this kitchen to have the breakfast that I made you until you're ready to see the rose in the vase instead of the dust on the table. She repeated that line. That was a big line for her that expanded beyond the kitchen as far as perspective and gratitude. And we'd have to go all the way back. She'd chase us all the way back. And you'd walk in the room. She goes, no, I said, get back in bed. She'd get back in bed with your clothes, your school bag and everything and get another cover. Now she goes, okay, now I'm going back kitchen.

Let's do this over. And you come back in and go, wow, look, we've got scrambled eggs or I got toast again. She goes, yeah, good morning to you, sunshine. Look at that. Another beautiful day. It wasn't guaranteed. That was always the kit. You had to get started on gratitude for the day. the rose in the vases of the dust on the table. Speaking of scrambled eggs, I remember Sunday nights. Something about scrambled eggs and a chocolate milkshake on Sunday night gave amnesty to the working week that was coming. It was a breakfast food, but it was Sunday night. It was informal.

It was the one night we could take our food and have it on a tray and watch the Disney show or something together. It was the one night we could go and eat in front of the screen. And so it was an informality that I always thought was really cool. It was the one night we could have sweets. It's the one night you didn't have ice cream all through the week. Sunday night you could have a chocolate milkshake. And I was in charge of making the milkshakes. And that was a big deal.

And I always thought that was cool. And it was Sunday night because Sunday night's usually the time where things get more formal. Hey, let's clean it all up. Tomorrow morning, Monday morning. Good sleep. Got to go to work. And there was something informal about that that just made it feel like he's got to stay up later. But the kitchen is where everything went down.

The kitchen's where we cry. when we were, heart was broken from a girlfriend breaking up. The kitchen's where my brother Pat got in trouble for getting caught with the bag of weed. The kitchen's where we set our gratitude and prayers around the lazy soothes. And the kitchens where we told stories where I learned as a youngster in my family, if you want to get a story in, you better hit the gap because the gap's not going to be in the conversation long. And when you hit that gap, you better be good at it or you will get steamrolled.

And I got steamrolled for years. You know, my brothers were great storytellers. My mom, whether she was a great storyteller or not, which sometimes she was, didn't give a damn, she was getting her time. So when I got my, I was the youngest in the family, and I got my time to hop in a story. I remember the first probably 10 times. I hopped into Interject to add and then was so stoked that I got time that I then choked. I then stuttered and I got nervous and they just take it over again. You had your chance.

You missed it. And the stories would happen there. The tricks, my brother, the lazy sous. and when food would come around to me and I'd reach out to get it, and he'd reach up to up the ladies Susan, spin it, and I'd miss the thing. Oh, miss it again, job. That was my nickname job. The laughter we had in there, the late night, if you got in trouble and we had a family discussion,

it happened in the kitchen. You're telling all the stories, babies, make me think of a bunch of the stories of the farm and how different the upbringing is, you know, when you're talking about the kitchen you're in, you went on your story and maybe just sit here for a second. can think we all have all this very vivid memories, as you said, and we all so very different, right? I was thinking, you're telling that story, and I was thinking of my grandfather when he found an alligator in the river in the back of the farm, a baby one by itself, and it was hurt. So my grandfather, being in who he was, he just grabbed it and brought it and made a little pond thing in the back of the kitchen area. You've seen that part. You're seeing it.

I've kitchen window. There's your pet gator. And that was like, you know, our entertainment after dinner, we all had to take turns feeding the alligator. And it's like, wait, don't baby alligators turn into big alligators? The one I saw was not a baby. Huge. And then it became the thing of like, you know, it became this big thing. And then it was like, okay, it's time to put it back in the... Yeah. Where's the cats? Where's the dog? Where'd those chickens go? Oh, yeah, y'all.

So are there things that either of you do, either in your personality or as home cooks now, that relate to things that you saw in the kitchen? Like I'll give you an example from my own life. When I make bacon, I always have to put newspapers on the floor because my mom always put newspapers on the floor so the grease didn't splatter on the floor. And it's kind of a weird thing, but it's just kind of in my DNA. It's kind of like baked in. You know, it's just something I do. Is there some piece of you that either you do in your personality or when you're cooking that you're realizing I am doing this because I saw this.

I lived this a thousand times. When I'm in a kitchen making some creation, I like to get every possible ingredient out. I want to see not behind a drawer, not still in the fridge. And if anything, if I can make an association of any sort of spice taste, savory sweet, or salty that could possibly go with this dish, I'll get it out. So I want them all out in front of me. And then I start to go, okay, what's my mixology going to be here? What's the taste profile? I think that comes from my dad doing seafood gumbo. He was raised in Louisiana and he would, he would make a three, it'd take him three days to make this pot of gumbo. And it would be

everything from the route to get started and there was a real patience to it. And you couldn't try it for three days. You didn't test it. No, and you didn't. And you sat back. but everything was out. And it had order and slowly it took more form. And certain things were done and they kind of scooted to the end of the bar or got put away. And he liked to, I think, see everything visually. And I've still, to this day, I'll get everything out, everything out. And then I would start to make order of it.

And I think I got that from my dad making the gumbo, seafood gumbo, which meant everything could go in that gumbo eventually. Camilla, are you a gumbo person? Do you make gumbo? No. No. Neither of you. No, gumbo.

I mean. Now, what I picked up from New Orleans, us living there, was the red beans and sausage, the red beans there. The red beans. Yeah. Yeah. In Brazil, we, you know, when we're talking about, you know, the simple food during the day was, you know, it's always rice beans and a meat. Rice beans and a meat and a vegetable. A legume.

We do a lot of legumes down there. That's one of my favorite things I want to say that I picked up that. Camilla got from her family and I believe her mom, the correct of me of her wrong, that I still love today. Black iron pot of beans on the stove all day, all weekend, just to have it there. I mean, to go to beans, it's still one of my favorite food at any meal of the day. I love a pot of beans on the stove. Yeah, we always have pot of beans sitting out of hand there.

I think for me is high heat. My mom, right? Because she would arrive from work and it would put something together fast. So she always cooked fast and high heat. High heat, high heat, high heat. So I think I, and I do that without even thinking about it. And you sometimes come in the kitchen. Yeah, he would come in the kitchen and be like, you know, you can turn that down.

You ever heard of the simmer? You're right. You know, slow-cooked this? No. And that is from your mom. Your mom comes in. If it could get to a thousand degrees, she'd do that. Yeah, so high heat, high heat.

And then really the fresh, like I feel like no matter where we are, even when we're in locations for like a few months, I always like I'm trying to grow something in the back or to grow something in the kitchen and having some chickens or finding the neighbor who has chickens. Like I'm always trying to get that from the source. Well, you'll always, if we have more than a month somewhere, you'll try to get a little herb garden going. Yeah. We didn't get lucky with the chickens. Texas. No. And it wasn't because of any gator. It was hawks, dogs, owls, coyotes. We really

failed on the chicken coop in Texas. You tried to raise chickens at one point. That's actually hard to do. A lot harder than we thought. No matter how busy my day is, I try to have a moment of calm in the morning. It's nice to have downtime, but not all of our listeners are so lucky. If you're a business owner or a hiring manager, you're likely work around the clock. How can you get help? At least help finding people with the right skills for your open roles? ZipRecruiter. And right now, you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash YMK. They use a powerful matching technology to help find the right candidates. In fact, 3.8 million businesses have used ZipRecruiter for their hiring needs. That says something. So take a break from hiring and let ZipRecruiter help. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a

quality candidate within the first day. See for yourself, go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free, ziprecruiter.com slash YMK. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com slash YMK. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. So the kitchens are our classrooms. They teach us things. A lot of things happen in the kitchen. And as you noted, not all of them are all rose petals and chocolate Mel. What are the lessons that you learned in the kitchens? I'm tempted to say about red lights, because your name of your book was green lights. So the kitchens are also where you learn about red lights. Yes. What did you learn about that, about how to relate to people in those really prickly moments and how does it apply to your lives together now? Well, I know my answer is twofold.

One, I literally always find out about death in the kitchen. I was in the way down? I was in Australia. I was in the kitchen. I got the call from my mom. My dad died. I was in the damn kitchen. And every time I've gotten those calls of someone close to me dying, I'm in the kitchen.

And I somehow dropped to my knees. And that's the first week always in the doggone kitchen. I don't know why, but I've written about that. Now, what I've learned about red and yellow lights is, The kitchen's a verb. It's not really a destination that things are created and exported and dispatched. And as you said, shared and generosity and, oh, we only have one, but there's four of us. What do we do?

How do we break bread so everyone gets some? You know, like, for me, I know, and me my work, I'm not good at going to my office and going, okay, I'm going to sit down and write now. No, that feels like a noun. That feels like it like, okay, that's the job I have to do. I'm going to write all the time when something crosses my mind or heart that. inspires me. That's the kitchen. That's when life's the kitchen. That's when my world's the kitchen. And to sit down and have a family talk about a crisis is a heck of a lot easier in the kitchen

when someone can informally sit on the bar and someone else can sit on the chair and someone else can sit on the bar stool and someone else can get up and go to the fridge and get a beer. I'm taking care of you. We're helping each other out while we're dealing with this crisis. My dad and my family, when we would have crisis, anytime someone got in big trouble, He'd take me and my brothers across town to the burger joint, the furthest across town so we could have a 40-minute drive together, get cheeseburgers, couldn't eat them, had to bring them home, cheeseburgers, French fries, and bring them home and all sit around and eat together. That was his version of, okay, the consequences have been handled.

Now we're going to go get everyone's favorite food, extra mayo, too, please. and we're going to come home and doggone it. We invest in some real Heinz ketchup, not the old tomato soup. We're going to have a good ketchup tonight and we're going to sit down. And then we're not going to talk about the consequence of the problem that just happened. Now we're eating. Now we're celebrating. Now we're saying thanks.

Now we're telling jokes. Now we're talking about tomorrow. That's over. And food was always the resolution. We're over the red light. We're turning this into green light now. I wish people listening to us could see the way Camilla is looking at you as you're describing the way you all used to get down on those burgers when you were young because are you imagining a younger version of him and trying to figure out what it would be like if you were there at that table. Is there a version of this in Brazil that you remember? What would be the equivalent of healing food in your house when you were growing up? That would be a Fejuada. It's a dish in Brazil.

that it takes a long time to make, actually. It's a lot of ingredients. But when somebody's like taking that time on a Sunday to cook it, it's like, okay, we're good. It's going to take a long time to eat. It's going to take a long time to digest. You're like, okay, everything's slowing down. Everything slows down or okay. It's interesting because we're just talking about kitchens.

That's how a conversation started and look at where we're going with it, right? And like for me, a kitchen, it's a place of grace and humility. Humility. Am I saying that right? Humility, yeah. Thank you. When I go back and think, you know, okay, at the farm, everybody that worked on the farm, they were eating the same food that we were all cooking as a family.

So we were cooking that food for our family and for everybody that worked there. And we had to make their plates and go give it to that. them in their hands and say thank you and they will go eat. You're saying, you know, when you cook something and it's not good, right? You're giving that grace to the person of going, okay, you know, let's make everybody feel better about this or how it is. I personally, if I'm not okay, my food is horrible. I could be a dish that I cooked a thousand times, but if my heart is not right, that food

is not right. That's so true. You know? The same. recipe to a tea, but something's not right. I don't know, it's a heavy finger or a light finger on the right ingredient that you go, it's just, it's just not. I agree with that. Food absorb your emotions. There are times when I felt some kind of way about something like, let's just get takeout because I really don't want to inject what I'm feeling. It is very true. Into the food I'm about to

fix. It is very true. It's the same in Brazil. It's like you need to know who you're eating your food from. And if the person has a bad heart, you don't eat it. You just, you do not eat that person's food. What is that saying? I want to know it. It's in Portuguese. I don't know how the translation would be. But the nuts and bolts of it, it's basically you need to know who you're eating from. And if the person has bad intentions, you never eat that food. If that person's mad at you, you never eat that food. Right. If you had the argument, you don't eat it. And it's funny because even today with my mom. Like, let's say, if we whatever reason got into a little whatever, I don't eat her food that day.

She's cooking. No, you don't. I skip. Does she know that you still? You know, I try not to make a big deal about it. Yes, she does now. Quietly. But, you know, but the kitchen is also a place of grace and a place of creation and transformation

in terms of every single room of the house you can avoid. So let's say if you're having a problem, if you have an issue, if something serious is happening, whatever it is, you can avoid. If you have a fight, if you have a fight, you can sleep a step, whatever it is. But everybody's got to eat. The kitchen is also a place where we work things out or maybe don't. I grew up in a kitchen where my mother would always say, take it out of the kitchen. And I think it was because she knew that if we were starting to argue, that if we went in another space, it would immediately deal. escalate because the kitchen was the place where you gave yourself permission to just let your

emotions fly in a way. So I'm thinking it was not just get out of my hair, you're loud. It was also take it out of the kitchen because you might de-escalate if you're in another room. But the kitchen is often a place where people do escalate, where the emotions overflow. And you've written about this in a very powerful way. Your family, your mother and father had a very volatile relationship. Was it three times married, two times divorced? And it all. often got hot. What did you learn in your kitchen about how to argue productively, about how to have conflict and figure out how to de-escalate that? Well, pouring another glass tequila. Pooringilis. Helpful. Go and get something sweet. Sweet food can de-escalate some things.

Even if it's a nice piece of chocolate or some ice cream, it can de-escalate some things. And I'm not, I've never a big sweet eater. Maybe that's why that milkshake on Sunday night or that meant so much. It was the grace part. You and I have started off certain dinners where it was, we were getting along great and maybe a conversation, and the food was tasting great, and the conversation maybe turned, took a bend in the road where all of a sudden we were buttoned heads on something. That never happens. Yeah. So that one time that I thought it happened.

But if I, in the middle of that disagreement, if I would say to cook that night and I was doing my steak sushi, if I'm going to give you, slice you off another bite and then go serve you, there's an invisible dissipation to the disagreement that happens in my service to her that I handed her a gift of something that we already were really enjoying, that I continue, that, okay, Now that we disagreeing, it's not like, okay, we're going to quit eating, or I'm going to quit serving you, or you're going to quit serving me. There's a, I talk about it every day when you make my tea in the morning. It's true, I don't make my tea as good as you, but the fact that you make my tea and serve me my tea in the morning makes me go. It's just taste better. It's even if you and I are in a disagreement, the fact that you still make my tea in the morning and serving my tea is the difference between being married and dating.

Yeah, trust me, ladies, some morning. I do not want to serve that tea. But she still will make it for me anyway. That's the difference in, and I say, the difference in marriage and dating. You know, you're dating somebody and something, you get in disagreement, you're like, uh-oh, this is a sign of things that come.

You better get out now. But you're married and you disagree, and you're like, I'm not pulling the parachute. This is part of it. We're going to work through this. I'm still going to serve my man as tea. I'm still going to serve my lady at steak sushi because I know she loves it,

even though we may be in a disagreement. You're laughing over there, right? Because you think it's funny, right? Because we all, it's ladies. We all have those moments. That's men too. You guys have those moments too. But I actually go even more to where I'm like upset or, you know, maybe we didn't finish something in a way that we usually like to and still have to work things out. I actually go the extra mile. I should say the extra mile, but I do a little extra where I live a little nice note with a tea. Oh, a note with the tea. I usually leave, so let's say if that happens. That even goes from almost grace and starts leaning into forgiveness. Ooh. Because usually I'm out earlier than you are, so I just leave the little note. It's like, okay, you know, we're going to be fine.

You know, I don't go into that, but whatever it is, that he feels like. And that even takes it from grace to forgiveness and soon becomes quite sexy. Yeah, I still have your work on the forgiveness stuff. Well, you put your little emoji smile. or something. Camilla, you travel also when Matt's on set, I've heard, to make sure that you're staying together as a family and you're eating together as a family.

That's true? Yes, it's very important for us. It's very important for me from the beginning that when he goes to work, it was a deal we made before we ever had kids. Actually, when we decided to have kids, it was a conversation we had of going, okay, if we're going to do this. It wasn't a conversation. It was a, if you go.

So we go. And I very intelligently nodded my head and said, yes, ma'am. And it was one of the coolest decisions we made and took about six seconds to make. And she sacrifices a lot to make the sure that that happens without negotiation in our life. Yeah, you know, it's the idea that we can continue no matter what be a family unit. And the meal times is important. Like, you know, when Matthew's working, he can go to work and his day, whatever meal that is, sometimes is breakfast, sometimes is lunch, sometimes is dinner, depending on the schedule. But we have a meal together as a family.

You know, I think that the beauty about our kitchen is because, like you say, I'm from Brazil, moved here when I was 15. and learn so much here. The United States is really home for me. Matthew being from Texas, growing up a completely different way than I did. But when you combine those two backgrounds with the experiences that we have together around the world, our kitchen is a very welcoming. It's no judgment. Everybody comes in.

Everybody brings in. You know, the kids are there. Everybody's got a job. everybody's doing something. It's very open to all flavors, all textures. It's a full passport in our kitchen. And you just reminded me of something that everyone having jobs. The cleanup after dinner, the clearing of plates and the washing of this, I do not like

dishwashers. I think that's one of the biggest scams going. But the cleanup. And then who washes, who dries, who puts away, that is a wonderful ritual. for us and in time to maybe turn up the music and let's dance through this. And maybe that's the kids are doing it because maybe mama and papaya are going to sit back and lean on their chair and toast drinks together while they do that. And then they can handle maybe dessert.

But that ritual and separation of parents from children and chores is also very healthy because you see their dynamic. They have to, well, I don't want to. You got, I put away last time. Well, let them figure it out. You know what we did we incorporated in our kitchen that's been a very fun addition is I got a record player and then we take turns of going to the record shop and picking different categories of music and everybody has different turns to play what they want to hear.

I love that. Right. Isn't it great? I love that idea. I'm stealing that idea. And the record player is not, Camilla's like, should this be in the living? I'm like, no, you have it on the right side of the counter in the kitchen. Sink, record player.

Yes, it's right there in the kitchen. And I usually start, because I'm starting, you know, I'm doing that earlier. And then by the time the kids come in and we go from all kinds of different genres and music that we wouldn't hear it together or something like that. I mean, last night, we were in the kitchen and Chris. Tableton and Biggie Smalls on. I'm kind of liking that, that mixed tape. So when you all are dancing and listening to records, I imagine that you might be sipping a little tequila.

Yes. That's how you met, right? You were making margaritas. I was making margaritas. I saw this figure with beautiful caramel shoulders with just enough dew on them to shine with the light coming off the ceiling, turquoise dress, and it was moving right to left in my eye line across the room about 20, yards in front of me. And the head was not bobbing. It was floating. Now, how much that had to do

with the margaritas I had already partaken, I'm not sure, but sometimes a good tequila can help you see clearly. And on this night, it sure was. And so I followed that figure until it went across the room and sat down. And I started to wave. And as I was waving, I heard my mom come in my ear at 15 years old and say, get your backside up. Boy, this is not the kind of woman you wave across the room. So I went over and invited her over and she came over and I made her a margarita. And I've said it before and it's in the book, but for 25 minutes, I've never spoken better Spanish nor understood Portuguese that good in my life. And that was the first night. We met 16, 70 years ago. So the language of love was very clear through all the music and all the language barriers. It was crystal clear that night. And that was

our first time we spent together and we haven't dated anybody since. And so it was over margarages. And tequila has been a friend of ours and our spirit of choice ever since. And tequila is now a business of yours. Our first business together we've ever had. Pantalones. Well, facing forward, yes. Okay, the name. The name?

Pantalones. Yes. Where did this come from? That is all Matthew. So if anybody listening loves the name, you can give him some love. If you need to give him a hard time, give it all to him. That was all Matthew, but it's a fun one. Well, it was a mix with work with maximum effort as well.

but there were many names. And Pantelonis, oh, that just made me go. That can travel. And you put the lowness on the end of something. It gets a little more swinging the hips. It's a little bit of kind of swing of the hammock there. It does. And so we got together and decided, hey, tequila's our favorite spirit.

Why don't we make our own and make our favorite? So we did for a couple of years. 47 tasters later, we have what is now bottles called Pantelonis. And then once we got that, we said, well, now let's relax. Now let's be cheeky. Now let's have some fun. Tequila's gotten kind of serious. People talk about tequila like they're talking about wine.

Now, wait a minute. We know how to drink wine. We'll have some tequila. Let's have some fun. And so that's when we said, okay, pantalones in the marketing campaign and what's the best thing we've made with our pants on? What's the most fun that we've had with our pants off? And then it's, as I like to joke, but very seriously, it's an evolutionary product and concept. because, you know, we toast the Blanco.

They're our youngest tequila to our kids because they wouldn't be here if we kept our pants on. We toast the Inejo to our ancestors, our parents and grandparents, because you know what? We wouldn't be here if they kept their pants on. So it's about sustainable innovation. This pants loves. And it's organic. And I love the names of the drinks that you suggest, the pickle pocket. dance your pants off, big girl's pants,

bellini bottoms, are these like bell bottoms? Is that what the bellini bottoms are? Yes, ma'am, yes. And devil's drawers. So y'all are having fun with this. We're having fun. When we talk to our guests, we always like to gift our listeners with a recipe,

something that tastes like home, something that you make your beautiful children today, something maybe that comes from a tradition, from one or both of your families, What is that recipe that you want to share with listeners who have enjoyed this conversation? We're going to be sharing the Brazilian chicken stroganoff. This is a dish that I grew up having it. It was one of the dishes that my mom made for us in special occasions.

It's something that now our kids grew up that we make during special occasions. And it's a home favorite by the kids. You like it too. I love it. I can't eat as much of it as I'd like to. Yes. It's not as bad as you think it is. So tell me about this.

This is a one pot dish. It's a one pot dish. And you cook the chicken, you know, you put all your herbs and spices and your seasoning and garlic and you cook your chicken really well. And then after you cook the chicken, you got to take the chicken out. You shred the chicken, take it off the bones, you know, so you have all that good stuff. No skin. Yeah, you take the skin.

and then you transfer to a different pot and you just add the shredded chicken with creme gilechi, which is an item that you can find in the Latin aisle of your supermarket. Cremerelyche. Cremic in Portuguese, but la crema, it's in Spanish. It's a trick on that that. And my mom taught me for la crema, you got to put it in the refrigerator or in the freezer for a few minutes. So the liquid part of it separates from the creamy part. And you don't want to use the liquid.

You only want to use the thick cream portion of that. And you mix that up with the chicken. Then you slowly add that broth back in. And it's not a soup, but it definitely has liquid in it. And you serve over rice. Well, corn on the cob, grew your corn on the cob, shave your kernels off, add your fresh corn. Yeah. The whole, they got to get the whole recipe in there.

But yes, you had green olives, corn, you serve over rice with the little string potatoes to add a little crunch and extra flavor to it. It's so good. And the beauty of it is that the leftovers, we all eat as sandwiches for lunch the next day. We make sandwiches with it. Wait, how do you make sandwiches out of this? Just a chicken mix because it's like a. It all coagulates. Yeah.

Especially overnight. It's one of those dishes that's very good on the night. But like many, you know, whether it's pastas or vulnizis, they coagulate overnight when they get cold. And I think they're cellular on cellular level. They all close up and the taste becomes more formed. And the next day, it can be something that goes on a sandwich that you do not need to add any moisture to, but still will hold its form in a sandwich. And the broth, all that broth that you cook, the chicken, if that is left over, you freeze that, you know, an ice cube tray. And you use that to cook anything in the future beans or make soups or.

you know, add a little extra flavor to any dish you want to. And it's a dish that this is what our kids ask. We do, you know, for Christmas, our tradition is we do Brazilian version of Christmas on the 24th and nighttime Christmas Eve and then the America version on the 25th. But even though this is not a traditional Brazilian Christmas dish, this is what our kids requests and has become in our household. Yes, what we do. You know, if we ever do, you know, if we ever do, a cookbook based on all the recipes that we've collected, no matter who we talk to, Uza Duba, Andy Garcia, Gail King, Michelle Obama, they all say the same thing. The recipe they give us is better the next day.

Better the next day would probably be the name of the cookbook. Because as good as it is the first day, it's even better the next day. So this seems to fall in that category. That's a good name for a cookbook. I think so, too. Better the next day. It's better with AIDS. There's some chemistry involved.

as good right when I make it. It's always better after I put it in the fridge the next day. That's kind of a nice outlook in life also. Better the next day. There's tomorrow. We're going to do it again tomorrow. So we might hold on to this. Stay tuned on that one. I have loved talking to both of you. Thank you for your time today, but also thank you for the work that you do with your foundation. Thank you for the good things that you put out in the world, even in simple ways to see you dancing in your Kitchen, you and Mama Mac on Instagram, having fun and cutting up. Thank you for the beautiful way that you model love of family and love of life with each other. This has been a wonderful conversation. I appreciate both of you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you.

There are a lot of moments in this conversation that are keepers for me. I think we can all take something away from Mama Max Maxim come back when you see the roses in the vase instead of the dust on the table. I'm going to remember the idea of leaving a note for someone you love even when they get on your nerves because nourishing a relationship in a vulnerable moment reaps real dividends down the line. And I wasn't kidding. When I said I want to steal the idea of having a record player in the kitchen where everybody can spin tunes of their choice. Love that concept. And I love speaking to Matthew and Camilla.

And I think you're going to love her recipe for the Brazilian stroganoff. You can find the recipe on my Instagram page at Michelle underscore underscore. or Norris, that's two underscores, and at our new website, your mama's kitchen.com. You can find all the recipes from all of our previous podcasts. And one last thing. You've been listening to me, but now I want to hear from you. So listen up. We're opening up our inbox for you to record yourself to share some of your mama's recipes, some memories from your kitchen growing up, thoughts on some of the stories you've heard on this podcast. We want to hear about your mama's kitchen. So make sure to send us,

us a voice memo at YMK at higher ground productions.com. That's YMK at higher ground productions.com for a chance to be featured in a future episode. Thanks for joining us. I hope the new year is off to a great start. See you next week.

And until then, be bountiful. This has been a higher ground and audible original produced by a Higher Ground, Studios. Senior producer Natalie Rinn. Producer Sonia Ton, and associate producer Angel Carreras. Sound design and engineering from Andrew Eepin and Roy Baum. Higher Ground audio's editorial assistants are Jenna Levin and Camilla Thurtecuse. Executive producers for Higher Ground are Nick DeMohan, Dan Fehrman and me, Michelle Norris. Executive producers for Audible are Nick DeAngelo and Anne Hepperman. The show's closing song is 504 by the Soul Rebels. Editorial and Webserial. Editorial and Webster. support from Melissa Bear and Say What Media. Our talent booker is Angela Paluso. Special thanks this week's goes to Clean Cuts in Washington, D.C. Chief Content Officer for Audible is Rachel Giazza.

And that's it. Goodbye, everybody. Make sure and come back to see what we're serving up next week. Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio LLC. Sound recording copyright, 2023 by Higher Ground Audio LLC.