Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - Padma Lakshmis Take On American Cuisine

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Former Top Chef host and best-selling author Padma Lakshmi takes us back to her early childhood in Chennai, India where she was raised by her grandparents and then to New York City where she would skate to meet her mom at a falafel cart for lunch as a teen. She opens up about why it's so important now more than ever to appreciate and redefine what it means to be an 'American' dish. Plus, she teaches us how to make her mama's Yogurt Rice.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Your Mama's Kitchen is brought to you by Rivian. For a long time, if you think about what it means to be All-American, there are certain images that would dance through your mind. Apple Pie and a white picket fence. Well, by the way, not a single ingredient in apple pie is indigenous to North America, not even the apples, not the lard, not the flour, not the sugar. So, you know, that's sort of, yes, we say as American as apple pie, but even that is a fallacy.

Hello, hello, and welcome back to your mama's kitchen. This is the place where we explore how we are shaped as adults by the kitchens that we grew up in as kids. And it's not just the food, it's all the stuff, the laughter, the way we might eavesdrop on our parents' conversations, the way that food can provide a taste of home from a distant land. I'm Michelle Norris, and we couldn't dream up a more perfect guest for our show than the one and only Padma Lakshmi. Padman was host and executive producer of Top Chef for 17 years. That's 20 seasons. That is a long and delicious run. She was also the creator and host of the acclaimed Hulu series, Taste the Nation. She is a prolific writer. She has penned four cookbooks, a best-selling memoir, and a children's book. She is a model, an activist, one of Times 100 most influential people in 2023. And now she is a guest. on your mama's kitchen. Hey, Padma. Hi, how are you, Michelle? Thanks for being with us. My pleasure. You spent a lot of time in the kitchen and did you grow up feeling comfortable

in the kitchen as a child? Or was the kitchen more the domain of your mom and your grandma? It was both. I mean, it was certainly the domain of women and I always felt comfortable there. My grandmother and my aunts spent a lot of time in her kitchen when I was growing up in that house. And my mother and I spent a lot of time in our kitchen in our little apartment here in New York City when I was growing up as well. And so, you know, for me, I really associated food with femininity and womanhood. because to me that's where the women did not only most of the work, but also that's where they traded their gossip, their secrets. They made all the decisions that were important for the household. They often disciplined us or decided what the discipline was, depending on how they were feeling.

And so from a very early age, that became sort of central command, you know, in our lives, in our homes, and in our families. I love the way that you describe it as Central Command, because the kitchen, yes, is where the meals are cooked and sometimes where they're eaten. But the kitchen is also like the Central Bank. It is the high court. It is, sometimes it's the jail, you know,

where you're grounded and you have to sit there and write your name five thousand times or do homework or something like that. There's a whole lot of stuff that happens in the kitchen. and it's not just about food. Definitely. I mean, in my case, it wasn't my jail. It was more, I was locked out of it.

I was always trying to get into the kitchen. And, you know, in South India, it's very hot. And so during the afternoons, my grandparents would take naps and the kitchen was closed. And it was just bolted shut from the outside. It wasn't locked. but whenever I would come home from school and I saw that everyone was napping and sleeping, I would try and sneak into the kitchen then, or more easily I would sneak into the kitchen in the middle of the night. And I remember one time, you know, trying to reach a pickle jar that was

way high up and sort of climbing up my grandmother's pantry shelves like a monkey and trying to get this bottle of pickle and it being slick with oil. And so it just slipped and shattered all over the kitchen, the marble and the kitchen floor. And I mean, there was oil and spices and turmeric and chilies everywhere. And I just hung there because I was terrified to come down and slip or step on all this glass. And my aunt found me and she helped me down and cleaned it all up. But after that, they locked the bolt, you know, and you could only open it. Oh, it was actually, you were locked out. I was locked out of the kitchen and there was actually a big padlock that they, you know, they would close it and then put the padlock on the bolt. And the only one who had the key to that lock was my grandmother. And she kept it on a key ring on a ring with several keys on it, tucked into the waist of her sari.

and she and only she had that key ring. Were you trying to get in the kitchen for snacks or something good to eat, or were you also hoping that you could play around in the kitchen and start to create things? I think I always was fascinated by spices and chilies when I was young. And even when I say young, I mean four or five. And, you know, things that are too spicy for most children to eat. eat I was very curious about. And I think that's because I always had a very curious, but also sensitive palate. And years, decades later, in my 30s, I found out I was a supertaster,

but that may have something to do with why. I think, you know, they were trying to keep me out of trouble, you know, first of all, hurting myself, but also eating things that they didn't want children eating. But I was always interested in experimenting. in the kitchen. And I wanted to cook, and my grandmother had a very strict hierarchy about who could do what in that kitchen. So, you know, you were allowed to shell peas. You were allowed to peel potatoes or, you know, break the ends off beans, sitting on the floor.

All the women sat on the floor in the kitchen with their bowls of things and little cutting boards that they were, you know, chopping up vegetables with or, you know, grading coconut on this very medieval-looking instrument that we used as a coconut grader. And so I wasn't allowed to do any of those things yet. And as I got older, they would let you, they would let you do things as you aged. And I think by the time you went to middle school or like in seventh grade, then you could finally make tea for the family. But until then, they wouldn't even let you turn on the stove. And so, you know, my grandmother was big on everything happening at the right time.

And so she was, and there were so many people to feed, but there were also so many hands to help. So everyone had their rank and their duties. And I just wanted to jump the cue, I guess. But, you know, my grandmother is no longer with me. She died during COVID. but she was very proud of the spice encyclopedia that I published in 2016. I think for her that was a really big moment for her. Yeah, and dedicated to her.

You said something, Padma, that I want to go back to, that in your 30s you discovered that you were a supertaster. Mm-hmm. Can you say a little bit more about that? How did you discover it? What does it mean? I mean, it was completely by accident. I had vaguely heard the term, and I just thought it was urban legend.

I didn't really pay much attention to it. And then I was filming in Seattle at the Science Center, and I had my daughter with me on set, and we went to see the children's part of the museum, and they had this whole display on the senses. And there was, you know, an Italian researcher who was there. And she was doing this test where anyone could do it. And it's just putting little tabs of paper on your tongue. And then they would be all unmarked and you would have to report what it tasted like and they would note it down. And sometimes they didn't taste of anything.

Sometimes they tasted of, you know, tartness or salt or bitterness. And so based on your results, they could tell. Supertasters have taste buds that other people don't have. or they're more sensitive to certain flavors. One of them, for example, being bitterness. And it is true. I mean, as I've grown, I've liked bitter tastes or bitter flavors more like dark chocolate and things like that.

But I'm still very sensitive to it. And so she, you know, in her scientific wisdom, I guess, determined, And she said, oh, some people are supertaster, some people are not. She said, I was because of my results. And she actually tested my daughter, who was three at the time. And she said, unfortunately, my daughter is not. So she doesn't take after me. But my daughter is a good cook.

I was going to ask you, your daughter, Krishna, are so close. We get to know both of you on your social media feed in particular. And I was wondering, you presaged my question. I was going to ask if she, too, is a supertaster? Or is it something she can grow into? You know, I'd have to do research on that. I'm not sure. It was something cute that I found out about myself.

You know, like I said, I didn't even know it was whether it was a real thing. Did you get a certificate or something? No, I mean, I didn't. I should have asked, I suppose. But, you know, it was just like, it's sort of like a dog who can hear whistles that humans can't, you know. I mean, I think I'm in a unique position to best. benefit from that skill because of my work. But I don't know that it means anything. I'm certainly not censorial scientist, but I do think you can develop a palate. I think, you know, in the way

that people who have lost their sense of smell in COVID can, it's very difficult, but can coax it back. So I do believe that you can develop your palate by just testing it and tasting different things and trying to actively perceive what your sense of smell and your palate, your sense of taste, is picking up because really taste is something different than flavor. Flavors are millions of flavors. Just think about going to an ice cream store, how many different flavors there are. But taste is something a little more primal. And really, we're the human palette, as we understand it today, can only taste salt, sweet, bitter, sour, and umami. And then, you know, from there, you can make a whole bunch of flavors that, you know, you pick up the nuance of and texture

also affects flavor a lot. And smell. And smell. Well, 70% of taste is smell, which is why when people get colds or they have a stuffy nose or something, sometimes their taste is diminished. But as we age, our taste diminishes as well. I think our eyes have something to do with that also,

because I think food that looks good just inherently tastes better, but that could just be me. Yeah, I mean, we do experience food with all our senses, you know, their sense, tactile sense or smell, even our hearing, you know, if you hear somebody bite into an apple, you think, oh, maybe I would like a piece of fruit. Yeah, I didn't want an apple until I heard that crunch, and now I really want a golden delicious apple. You were born in Madras. I was born in India in Delhi, yeah.

In India, yeah, and then you're born in India, and then you're born in India, and then you moved. And so when you think about the kitchens that you grew up in, if I asked you to, you know, take me inside your childhood kitchen, where does your mind go? I mean, it goes to that kitchen with my grandmother. You know, that is always the deepest, most innocent, purest part of my childhood, that kitchen. I can see it in my mind. I can see the green marble tile on the floor, dark green, sweckled with white and black flecks. I can see the cement counter. It was very, very modest.

We had two burners. We had a pantry with lots of jars, lots of shelves, lots of dried lime, lots of stuffed chilies, lots of mangoes that were preserved, all kinds of lentils, pulses, dried lotus root, all those things, you know. But it was a modest kitchen. And through that kitchen, she made some miraculous food for eight. eight or ten of us that always lived in that house growing up. Did you eat in the kitchen or did you eat in an adjacent space? We ate in batches. We ate in shifts. So we had a dining table in the dining room just outside the kitchen, but the men ate first. And then they would eat with the children as well if there was room on the table depending on who was around. And the women ate last, you know,

and they would go from kitchen to dining room and sort of serve, you know, a lot of South Indian food is very soupy and it goes on top of rice. And even our plates have a lip of an inch high or ever silver or stainless steel plates. And so, you know, you would go around and serve everybody. And then sometimes, you know, I would get mad because I would want to eat with the women and wait until the end to eat. But of course, they were trying to be kind to the children. and they wanted the children to have, you know, the food when it was hottest and most abundant and things like that. I mean, when we ate lunch and it wasn't school, my grandmother made, had a big, giant bowl

that she would mix rice and yogurt, salted yogurt, or rice and some lentils with their hands with ghee. And then we would sit, all the grandchildren would sit in a semicircle around her on the floor, everyone Indian style. And we had little bowls. And so you would put your hand out and she would get, you know, a mound of food with their hands. And she would give it to you and you would take it in your hand. But if you were slow, she would put it in your bowl if you were still eating. And she would sort of go and give us all our baby, you know, baby birds would get, all less baby birds would get a bite until our turn came around. And I remember that ritual. That's how kids were fed. First, they were fed by hand to mouth. And then they were fed hand to hand or hand to bowl. And it cut

back on the dishes. It got everyone fed and made everyone sit down and focus. And your grandparents were almost like parents to you. But then at some point you moved to the states. I moved when I was four. Yeah. So do you still have such strong memories though? It sounds like. Well, yes. I mean, those formative memories are so etched in my mind. And also, I mean, I went back to India for three months every summer. The minute school got out in June, I was on a plane. And I loved it. My mother wanted me to hold on to my culture and speak the language and also be with other family memories. I'm guessing she probably needed a break as well a little bit. And, you know, she worked full time. So, you know, it was hard to get child care. And I could be home alone as a Lashki kid for a few hours.

But all day, every day running the streets, I don't think she was into that. So can I ask about your mom? Because I'd read a lot about you. And you write about this in your memoir also. Your parents divorced in 1972. And that was around the time that divorce was becoming more common in America. In America. That's where I'm going with my question. What about India? That seems like things may have been very different there. It was horrible. I mean, it was, you know, and it still is, India's a very conservative country. You'll find Indians all over the world contradicting themselves, because anything you say can be true of India. There are gay couples living together in some of the urban cities,

but there are also still brideburnings and child marriages in the villages and everything in between. In my mom's case, it was an arranged marriage which she wanted, and it was a very turbulent marriage. And we separated from my biological father when I was one. And we lived with my grandparents, And then my mother, you know, knew that it would be very hard for her to live as a single woman. And I don't think she was interested in getting married again.

She did eventually be married when we were in America. But she went, she came here. And at that time in the 70s, there were a lot of people who, you know, came in that wave of immigration, a lot of medical professionals because there was a shortage here in America. just like now there is a tech shortage, so a lot of people get H-1 visas or whatever. We'll see what's going to happen now, of course, with everything that's going on.

But my mom came in that wave in the 60s and 70s, and I just stayed back until she was settled. So yes, my grandparents were like second parents to me. And I think my mother made the right decision. You know, here she could live freely. No one was going to judge her for that. She became, you know, she became, you know, a single woman in New York City in the 70s. And I remember going to parties with her. I remember a lot of beaded curtains.

I remember, I remember New York in the 70s. It was a magical place. I mean, I know it was written with crime and everything, but as a child, I didn't know that. I would just roller skate all over the city. And I would meet my mom for lunch when school was out. And I hadn't those, you know, a few weeks or a week, a few days that I hadn't gone to India yet. I would skate from 81st Street all the way down to 69th Street and First Avenue to meet my mom for lunch. And we would buy a falafel at the falafel car. And then I would, she'd go back to work as a nurse at Sloan Kettering. And I would skate around Carl Scher's Park and I'd meet her at home.

And I think that is also how I started cooking. I felt for my mom having to come home at 6.30. and, you know, after a long day at the hospital on her feet as a registered nurse to have to cook dinner for me and then polish her white nurse shoes that she would always put on newspaper by the door and do whatever laundry needed to be done on the weekends, but also help me with my homework. So I started doing stuff like putting on the rice or, you know, making sure I washed all the vegetables or at least cut the cucumbers for the right, stuff like that. stuff like that. I love all this imagery. The idea of a young Padma Lakshmi skating in New York City

with her hair flowing behind her. And I just love that. And you just brought back memories because nurses used to wear those white shoes. They used to have that little dye stick that they'd have to go over there. And they had a nice, soft, squishy heel, you know. And we forget because now nurses are wearing new balances

and Nikes and things like that, but there used to be a really strict uniform that they had to wear. So you started cooking by necessity. You were trying to help your mom out make things a little bit easier for her. Yeah. I remember my sense of triumph when in fifth grade or sixth grade, somewhere around then, you know, I would open up a can of refried beans and I wrapped them in some tortillas, and then I would get some salsa and pour it all over, and I would shred sheds. cheese with the box grater and I would sprinkle that. And then I wasn't used yet. I wasn't allowed to use the

stove yet, but I was allowed to use the oven. And so I would bake it. And then I would make my mom a salad and I knew my mom would make the dressing when she came home. And so I would set the table and we would have salad and we would have bean enchiladas and it was a hot meal. And and I felt very grown up. Well, that is a sense of accomplishment, though. That is a really good feeling to this day. You know, when you're able to make someone happy, tell them you love them by putting a hot meal on the table.

Can I ask about your mom? In reading about you, I saw that she was very devout, that she was an early riser, that she would get up and have time to herself every day. does that live in you? Did you see something in her practice and in her work ethic? I was going to say worth ethic also that lives in you. Because those are two different things.

They are. My mother worked very hard, and often she would cook before she went to work or she would start the process. As I said, maybe she would make the rice, or I would put the rice on, or maybe she would make the lentils, or maybe she would marinate things. And so they'd be ready when she came back. And there's a couple of those recipes in this new cookbook, Padma's All-American. And, you know, she taught me how to be intrepid. What she did with what she had was a lot. You know, she had little and she did a lot with it. And so now that I'm a mother and I have so many resources that my own mother did not have, I have such a greater sense of empathy for. her. My grandmother also was a very hard worker. They both were. I mean, my families, we are a studious family, you know, it's very cliche and boring, but, you know, we were always taught to be busy and

productive and helpful. And I've tried to be that for my mother, and she certainly was that for me. And I saw what she went through. And I saw, you know, her max, her credit cards out. in September every year to buy me school clothes. And, you know, it really made an impression on me. And I think my work ethic comes from her. But I also think as I've grown, you know, into my own womanhood and personhood, I should say. I think that my mother's superpower is really her empathy and caring for others, which comes part and parcel with being a nurse,

but I think my mother feels really deeply. And I think my writing is also about feeling versus thinking. You know, it's very observational. I try to be detailed and evocative, but I think it comes from a place that is more ephemeral, but very present. if that makes sense. You are a bridge builder and your life is in some way a bridge in different cultures,

East Coast, West Coast, U.S. and India. You're a model and then you move to a different aspect of food, and we'll talk about that in a little bit. But in terms of culture, what did your mom and your grandma do to make sure that you held on to your cultural roots, not just in the kitchen, but just in life as you became more American. You know, growing up in New York City, which is, you know, is an ethnic stew or gumbo or whatever metaphor you want to use. You can find some of everybody in New York City. But there also are sometimes pressures to become American.

And, you know, and you sort of shed some of, a lot of people, they want their children to become more American, which means, you know, pushing them to lean. into those things that are seen as, I guess, mainstream American and sometimes you make trade-offs or home is the only place where you do certain things. How did your family make sure that you held on? And I'm certain that going back to India was probably

a part of it. That was a big part of it. That was a big one. And when I did go to India, my mother would drag me to every single relative's house to see them when she came. She wouldn't come there for the whole summer, but when she could, she would visit as well.

I mean, you know, I don't think my parents or my grandparents thought about me as like you have to hold on to your culture. I mean, I love my culture and I think both my mom and my grandma made it really fun for me through food, through music, through tying the sari, through celebrating Diwali, which we just did, through ritual, through, you know, I'm a very secular person, but I do go to the temple. a couple of times a year just because it's nice to be in community with others and it's nice to smell the flowers and the incense

and do the prayers and I do believe that those rituals are nice. The qualities that my four mothers tried every day in ways big and small to instill on me

are not necessarily Indian values. They're just values, like being respectful to your elders, doing your homework, making sure your side of the street is clean, you know, speaking with respect and thoughtfulness as much as you can, learning to contribute more than you take away, things like that. I don't think are values that necessarily belong to one culture versus another, one ethnicity towards another. It's just, you know, I was raised with a sense of purpose, with a sense that I have been very lucky, even though I have had struggles, and that I should take advantage of my blessings and luck

and use those to create it for others. You know, it's not, I see how, and it's not that they taught me. I see how my grandmother did it through example. A grandmother started the first Montessori school in her part of South India. Then when she moved, she was a schoolteacher in Delhi. Then she was also starting an orphanage with other women in our neighborhood in Chennai. Then she started working in a mobile vaccination unit. So they would go in a van into the slums to make sure those kids were vaccinated because their parents couldn't bring them. They worked a bazillion hours of days.

So they went to where the children were. And so my grandmother kept busy even well after she retired. My mother did too. And my grandfather, the same. My grandfather was a hydro engineer. Then when he retired from that work with the Indian government, he went to law school when he was 60

because he always wanted to be an advocate. He graduated. He did work. as an apprentice for a senior attorney, he was younger than him, then he took one case for a widow. He won that case with some kind of insurance case. And when he retired from law,

he started a tutorial out of our home in Chennai. And so he would tutor college students. And, you know, so I saw by example my family doing things. And so I never really knew any differently. Grandpa sounds like he wasn't retiring. he was rewiring. He was finding new ways to use that mind of his.

It always, you know, I have always been a person who's been curious about others and about learning ways of doing things. And because I'm interested in food, it manifests itself that way. Hence the book and hence the TV show, Tastes the Nation. But I think I just did it innately. you know, just the fish in the middle of a school of fish ask which way to go, you know? Yeah, yeah. You just the water, you figure it out.

You figure it out. Before we continue, I want to take a moment to talk about a really important topic, and that's hope for the future. On your mama's kitchen, we hear from all kinds of guests about the different kinds of hope that they fostered in their childhood kitchens, hopes of pursuing their dreams, hopes of becoming a star, hopes to spread their culture, to the world, they know how powerful it is to believe in what is possible. They prove that all of our stories matter, and hearing about their journey should inspire everyone to foster their own hopes

for the future, no matter where they are in life. And speaking of hope for the future, I want to talk about Rivian, the makers of the fully electric, full-sized SUVs and pickups designed with tomorrow in mind. Our friends at Rivian have given me a vehicle, Let me tell you, it has been incredible, driving a fully electric SUV that fits my lifestyle so beautifully. It's got capability. It's got tons of storage. It's beautifully designed.

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I could just fire up that kitchen and serve up something delicious while I'm on the road. It's got hangout lights at the top that sort of dangle over the top of the cooktop, so I can even cook when it's starting to get dark outside. Rivian is on a mission to build a sustainable world, one that is rich in wonder and adventure and full of hope for future generations. Who doesn't love that? Learn more at rivian.com.

The holidays are always a special time of year. I love how it brings everybody together. I love how it sets a mood where everyone tends to be in a festive holiday spirit. And I love how it fills the house with good smells, with laughter, with food, with music, way too many leftovers. And this year we're going to try something new. We've decided that we're going to try to take the celebration on the road. We're going to look for a space that's warm and inviting, of course, a great big kitchen so we can throw down and make some delicious meals. We can maybe end the evening by sitting by the fire, by playing games, a really nice communal space.

We hope to find all of that. So our celebration at home can be enhanced by a celebration in someone else's home. I'm reminded of how special it is to spend time together in a place that feels like home, even when you're miles away. And it made me realize that while you're away, that someone else could be creating their own holiday memories in another home while you're gone. That's the beauty of Airbnb. Hosting isn't just about extra income. It's about sharing your space and helping people find an experience that will really mean something special to them, that will allow them to create memories and a feeling of togetherness. I love the idea.

that what my family is off celebrating somewhere new or someone else's family is off celebrating somewhere new, that their home could be used by someone else to create a new set of memories that will last beyond the holidays. That's what makes hosting on Airbnb so special. It gives you a way to share the comfort of your home with others, and the extra income helps make even more holiday trips possible. And that's a great thing. Your home may be worth more money than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. The Thanksgiving table is more than just about meals. It's about creating a holiday story.

And every story needs the right ingredients. And when it's Thanksgiving, well, the turkey is the star of the show. And I'm going to share a story with you that I'm not particularly proud of. When I was a lot younger, a lot newer in the kitchen, I was having a hard time nailing the turkey and I needed a replacement turkey and I was frantic to find one

and guess what? Whole Foods Market saved the day with a turkey that was both affordable and a turkey that I know was raised with care. What a relief. Their turkeys start at just $1.49 a pound and every single one is raised with no antibiotics ever and it can be the centerpiece of your holiday story

without the worry. And the real magic for me is a supporting cast. The sides, that's where the magic happens. And I lean on Whole Foods 365 brand for all the things that I need. It's my secret for a flawless, affordable feast. And we're talking organic carrots for that perfect glazed dish. I'm talking about green beans for the casserole or for any other green bean dish that you might want to make because there are so many options for the holiday. From essential. like creamy condensed soups to organic baking spices that when it comes time to baking those delicious desserts makes the entire house smell like one great big hug. And for those moments when guests arrive and you're still in the kitchen, but you need to have something to greet them with that taste

delicious, while those 365 frozen appetizers will always do the trick, the Kish Trio or the butterfly shrimp can be lifesavers and people will remember it and they will talk about it for years. to come. They feel special and they let you finish up in the kitchen. Enjoy so many ways to save on your Thanksgiving spread at Whole Foods Market. And I hope the holiday is bountiful in all the best ways. We all know that food waste is bad for the planet, but that doesn't mean we're ready to start a compost pile or we're okay with having a smelly fruit fly condo compost pail on the counter. That's why I am so into the mill, food, recycler. The whole idea is to make keeping food out of the trash as easy as dropping it into the trash. I just add my scraps, and I mean like almost anything, I mean anything,

from chicken wing bones to avocado pits to cannolip rinds, and mill runs automatically while I sleep. I can keep filling it for weeks, and it never smells. What really surprises me is the peace of mind. I used to feel guilty every time I tossed out wilted spinach or half-eaten leftovers. Now I just drop them into the bin, open the lid, drop them in, and I know that they're going to a better place. You can use the grounds in your garden or feed them to your chickens, but me, I have mill, get them to small farms for me so farmers can grow more food. You just send those grounds off to farms in little boxes that Mill can provide, and they will turn that back into real food, for real animals. That's such a good feeling. It's a full circle moment that I didn't know that I needed. You can have your own full circle moment. Try Mill, risk-free, and get $75 off at mill.com slash

YMK podcast. That's mill.com slash YMK podcast. You describe being in Manhattan. At some point, you moved in your teenage years, how old were you when you moved to California? Yeah, it's the early teen. and to La Puente? Yes, Southern California. It's in the San Gabriel Valley. My mom and stepdad still live there.

And you changed your name at one point. Yes, I did. Well, you know, when you were asking earlier that question about what did they do to make sure that you maintained your culture? I mean, my family didn't push me in either direction, nor did they, you know, worry, but I wanted to be as American as I could. And so in high school, I changed my name to Angelique. And I must have killed my mother because, you know, a name that you give a child, and her only child is so, so important. And, but to her credit, she didn't make a big deal out of it. You know, she just let me go through it. And, and so I did. And then I, you know, had the good sense

when I went away to college to revert back to my birth name, you know, to what she named me. And so I think because she didn't push, I had a natural proclivity to my nature. Like when I've just come back from filming for weeks and weeks and I ate all kinds of food, but the thing I wanted was doll and rice where, you know, the lentils and rice that we eat in a bowl that I've been eating since I was a toddler. And I think those habits stick with you. I'm very proud of my heritage, but it doesn't really preclude me from being American.

And what is being American? I mean, that's why the book is called Padma's All-American, because I wanted to show the different facets of American life and traveling through this country, community by community, road by road, meeting all these immigrants and descendants of immigrants and indigenous people and people who were brought here or their ancestors were brought here unwillingly all of those people are who make up this country and I was curious about that and this notion of who gets to call themselves American was central

in my mind because it was central in my life and my identity growing up and so my work in immigrant rights, my work with this cookbook, Padma's All-American, or anything I do, is a natural progression of the questions I've been asking myself since I was a child. And now I ask other people, because I want to know their stories. Book is beautiful. Thank you. You've always traveled a lot, and you've always sampled all that America has to offer. But we're in a different moment right now. and America's telling a slightly different story. So when you worked on this book in particular, what did you learn about this country?

You know, working on this book and traveling around meeting all these people, it actually gave me much-needed hope. And it reminded me not to believe the lies, not to be demoralized and not let certain voices be the only ones telling the story of who or what America is. And that's really, I mean, beyond being a cookbook that I hope people cook from and really enjoy, I hope that I hope that it gives people a more positive and truthful and accurate picture of what this country

looks like. You know, if you just turned on network, television, you would think that it was mostly Caucasian and, you know, people just ate meatloaf or whatever. That's changing. It's not only like that. I'm, you know, generalizing, of course. But I wanted to do something that was celebratory and fun and delicious to counteract all that vitriol from Stephen Miller and Stephen Bannon and, you know, do something to say, let's remember who we all are. are because all of us have made this country what it is. And so, you know, at this particular moment, when I lived down the street from Chinatown

and just this week, ICE was there, raiding, and it was horrible. I wasn't there. I was, you know, doing something else, so I didn't see it, but I certainly heard about it and saw footage of it. It's horrible, horrible, horrible. And I think it's really just misguided. I mean, you can tell someone's doing something wrong. You know who hides their face?

Robbers, thieves, you know, pirates, people who take things they're not supposed to take, who commit crimes. And this is such a crime not only on the people they are detaining without warrants. It is also a crime on the legacy of America and what it has meant to so many people. and why it's powerful. It's just, you know, from a very pragmatic point of view, never mind a moral or ethical point of view, it's also just very short-sighted.

You know, you will not have the labor force you need to continue to be an economic superpower without immigrants. You will not have such a rich and diverse and dominant pop culture that permeates the rest of the world, you know, from blue jeans to hip, pop to everything else without all these people's voices. And you will not have agriculture as we know it. You will not have health and science or technology as we know it. And I only can hope that our fellow Americans will get sick of it. And anytime you open your phone, you open the paper, you know,

or social media, you just see so much negativity. So I wanted to. make my point in a positive way. Rather than saying what was wrong, I wanted to say what was right and what was worth preserving and what was valuable and fascinating and pleasurable and delicious about our country. I love that you called it All-American because for a long time, if you think about what it means to be All-American, there are certain images that would dance through your mind, apple pie and a white picket fence. Well, by the way, Not a single ingredient in apple pie is indigenous to North America, not even the apples, not the lard, not the flour, not the sugar. So, you know, that's sort of, yes, we say as American as apple pie, but even that is a fallacy.

The only thing of really American is the Navajo woman that I interviewed in Arizona who's on the actual cover of the book. Like, you have the jacket of the book, which is me in front of the American flag, and that's very purposeful. and with the title, Padma's All-American. But if you take the book jacket off of Padma's All-American, you see me standing there in the desert and Sonoran Desert in Arizona with Twyla Casador. And she is the original American. There's no one more American than Twyla Casador.

And she's a wonderful human being. It was so much to teach all of us about the environment, about ancestors, about food and sustenance, both spiritual and physical. And the idea that all American

includes all of us. You know, embracing the flag, embracing our variegated cultures and often finding a way to another culture

through food. And sometimes food and music, sometimes that's the easiest way, you know, weigh in. It's either food or it's music.

Well, because they're both things that you can enjoy and hit you on an emotional level, without any words. It's like pre-language, you know.

Now, I know that you've always loved food, and you've described that from a very early age, but you didn't intend to have a career that was centered around food. At some point, you were planning to do something else. You went to college for theater. Theater and American Lit. Yeah, and you worked as a model.

You were interested in acting, either on stage or on the screen. At what point did food become a career pursuit for you. And was that an epiphany, or was it more of a natural progression? It was not an epiphany. It was just something cool to do because I was always interested in food. And then I kind of fell into the career of it.

I'd never planned on a career, but then I wrote this first cookbook. And then I went on book tour, and I went on the Food Network. and, you know, they called me back three weeks after I'd been on, and I went on then, and then my manager was like, you know, if you ever on a third time, you're going to have to pay her. And they said, actually, we were thinking about this very thing, and they offered me a development deal. And that's how Padma's Passport on the Melting Pot series came about. And then I did a couple documentaries called Planet Food. And, you know, it sort of mushroomed slowly from there.

But I was writing about food for the New York Times. for a little, I was, you know, writing about fashion for Harper's Bazaars. So, you know, it took me a while to figure out what my path was going to be. And that path often changes, you know, but the thing that has stayed consistent is my interest and passion for food, how it ties us together, how to make it, how to celebrate it, how to use it to bring us to the table and bring us closer. And, you know, I think my mission in life has always been, whether I knew it or not, to make a mark in some way. You know, I remember my grandfather used to say when I was little, like, when you go to sleep at night, I want you just to think about your day and think about what

you did today to water the tree of life. It sounds better in Tamil. But it sounds pretty good, even in English. What, you know, what are you doing? It doesn't have to be anything big or grand. It can be just helping someone carry their groceries up the stairs. Or, you know, we lived on the third floor in our apartment building. And we didn't have an elevator. So we would always have to carry all these heavy bags of rice up thick stairs.

Or, you know, it could be anything. It would be helping your friend with her homework or, you know, maybe just picking up your clothes from your bedroom floor. So that really stuck with me. And so whatever it is, I hope I do it with intention. I don't think there's anything more lofty about what I do today than when I was a waitress at a pizzeria when I was 16. It just matters. It's never what you do, but how you do it.

And I hope that I give attention and care to every task I take on. I want to ask you about Top Chef. and 20 seasons. That is a long and respectful run. You should be really proud of that because not everybody can stay on that train for that long. But you said at some point that you weren't taken as seriously as some of the other judges in the beginning. Well, I wasn't a chef and I hadn't gone to culinary school. And I had a body of knowledge that I built upon.

I hope over the last two decades. And I don't know if that's how they felt. I felt they felt that way. And I think I suffered from imposter syndrome, which is not uncommon, especially in young women. I just, you know, the way I get past that or the way I get past any of my anxieties is just to put my energy into the work, into the effort of making myself better so that I don't feel that way. You know, that's the only recourse you have because your mind will go somewhere better that it goes somewhere that's positive

and that is additive to your life than just fretting over things. Can I tell you something? You were the judge that felt like us. You know, because you maybe didn't have, you know, we didn't go to quote on blue. You were the judge that felt like you were speaking for the person who was watching from home.

and I don't know if you have heard that before, if you have absorbed that from other people, but whatever you felt for people who were watching, it felt like there was a kinship and watching you. Well, thank you. I appreciate you saying that. You know, I always think that my job as a writer is to, if I'm writing a recipe or writing, for instance, in this cookbook,

my job is to tell you how to make that or what the experience of eating it feels like. when you're not doing it or when I'm not standing in the kitchen with you. And, you know, on top chef, unlike the voice or Project Runway, you really are relying on us to be descriptive about that food. You can see whether it looks pretty or not, but it could look really beautiful and be oversalted or be bland or whatever. And, you know, I always saw my role as the reader or the audience's representative, that I wanted you guys, and as much as was possible, to have a vicarious experience through what I was tasting, smelling, feeling on any given day on set.

And I think that humility and that willingness to learn helped me because, you know, I hang around a lot of highfalutin chefs. And I sit at the table and, you know, I remember one person, said, you know, but that brunois is so beautiful. Look at those knife cuts. And I just sort of laughed and threw my head back. I said, said no one ever when they went out to eat. You know, not a critic and not any diner who was willing to pay those exorbitant prices for, you know, going out is expensive for most of us. And nobody ever talked about knife cuts. And I appreciate the craft of being a fine dining chef. I'm not that. I respect it. I value it. I certainly know what goes. into it, but, you know, chefs and much of food programming on television can be very analytical,

can be very cerebral, can, you know, and that's important. There's a place for that too. And I think after doing so many years of Top Chef, I wanted to do something that was more emotional and more anthropological. And I wanted to place that food we were analyzing in, context. And I also was curious and longing to eat the food that most of the world eats. You know, it's interesting. Even the professional culinary industry is dominated by men. It is the most male-dominated field there is. Maybe the military is more male-dominated. But most of the food in the world is actually cooked by women. Yeah. We just don't get paid for it a lot of the time. Right. Or don't run the restaurant or the kitchen or, you know, don't run the show. Yeah. I mean,

I was very interested in eating the food and finding out about the food. Most people across this country were cooking and enjoying with their families, the flavors that they or their parents or grandparents or whomever brought from somewhere else that they now adapted and created with what was available here in America to create this third culture food. And I was interested in that. You know, I love it. a good, fancy meal, but if you give me the choice of a seven-course tasting menu with a white

tablecloth and eating off the back of a food truck, I will pick the latter nine times out of ten. I will pick the ladder at nine times out of ten for sure. Love a good food truck. Yeah. And it's actually a good business model because there's so many people who could run a white table restaurant, but they realize that the brick and mortar costs are so high that the food truck actually makes it, you know, or is a more accessible entry point. They both have pluses and minuses, I'll say. But yeah, I mean, you know, I think I'm just using that food as a vehicle. One of the best compliments I got from someone when they saw the cookbook is they said they read it cover to cover. They don't even really cook. And they said the recipes look good, but they hadn't cooked any, but they read every word. And that is a high compliment because a good cookbook reads like a memoir. Yes, it should. And this actually does.

I did want to, I appreciate your candor and your grace. The grace, I will say, is in the way that you handled competitive cooking, because sometimes there's just a little bit of edge. And you're always worried, oh, you know, you're deflating this person, put everything into this. And you want to make sure that cooking is about love and about hospitality and about sharing. and not just about competition. So I appreciate your grace in the way you handle that. I appreciate your candor also in the way that you've talked about the rough side of the mountain

that sometimes you've had to climb up. And some of the contradictions in your career is someone who's worked in both modeling where you have one relationship to food and then in sort of as a celebrity chef, as a cookbook writer, as a cook yourself where you have a very different relationship to food. And you've talked honestly about the contradiction there and how difficult it was to navigate both of those worlds. Yeah, it continues to be difficult at times. You know, I am not a 25-year-old. I am a 55-year-old.

And I'm also, you know, yes, my metabolism is changing. I'm going through perimenopause, all the things, you know. But I eat for a living. But even more than that, I'm a woman on television. So I am scrutinized in a way that my male peers never will be. And that's not lost on me. And I'm expected to wear a certain type of clothing or high heels or, you know. And that's why doing Tastination was also very freeing because I, you know, I was in jeans and a T-shirt or whatever.

I didn't, you know, there was very little fuss that was made about. my appearance and that was also purposeful because when I could call the shots, I knew that there were more important things that's been my time on, frankly. And, you know, look, I love a pretty dress just like everyone else and I love makeup and hair. And, you know, I don't think those things are necessary to do your job well. And some of the women that I respect the most in food could care less about that. And it doesn't keep me from admiring them. But it is a visual medium. And there's so much of my business and my life in media that has to do with the visual and, you know, the image that goes along with that. And I am pragmatic enough and hopefully strategic enough to just make the path that is the easiest for where I want to get to.

So I go to the gym and then I come home and I test recipes and then I do the same thing again. So I spent as much time in the kitchen as I do at the gym or the boxing ring, you know. Oh, the boxing ring. That's interesting. I mean, I had to stop because of some joint pain I had a while back when I trained for the Sports Illustrated, actually, interestingly enough. I just overdid it. And so I haven't gone back to boxing, but before this, I have been boxing for 20 years. And it's kept me sane. And as much as it's given me physically, it's given me even more mentally. And it's been very good for my self-confidence and in feeling grounded and really confident in my body. Again, because I don't feel like I couldn't defend myself. I just feel more in my skin. And I always hated doing cardio, but boxing is fun. And jumping rope is fun. And I just did it too much.

And I have tendonitis. My right hook caught me in trouble. Uh-oh. Scared of you. You know, they say the best workout is the one you'll do. So when you find something that you love, that's what you do. What have you done to create the kind of kitchen that you so love and remember in your grandparents' kitchen for your daughter, Krishna?

Well, I mean, Krishna likes to cook a lot. And there's always hot food in the house, but she's also an American teenager. And now she's an American teenager with a cell phone and Uber eats. And so she circumvents my cooking sometimes. And, you know, she falls prey to Taco Bell and things like that. And I don't blame her. You know, I want her to be a normal kid. But I try to remind her that her family is important.

So, you know, this time is. in our lives in the year is very full and busy. You know, it's always Diwali, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and then her birthday in February. So we, you know, we constantly have family over. I'm blessed to have some of my family, not my immediate family, but, you know, Indian families, the extended family is like the nuclear family here around the New York area. And so everybody comes for Diwali. We still go to the temple. You know, she, not only, in the kitchen, but she gets her, she's, you know, obviously she's biracial. So, and she's living in her father's culture, in the greater white culture. So it's not just the food. It's the ritual

of Diwali. You know, when she was younger, she had six years of classical South Indian Carnotic vocal training so she can sing in Sanskrit. She doesn't like to very much, but she does. and now she's using that in her other music that she wants to do and it comes to her in every way it's in the water she drinks so to speak and so I try not to make it really hard and something that I'm forcing on her I just want to make sure she's immersed in it and it's around

and that's not always easy you know it was again I have resources my mother did not have And so I can afford those lessons for her. I can go to the temple, you know, because I run my own production company, I can decide my hours. And I can take, you know, three hours off on a Wednesday afternoon to go to Queens and go to the temple. So, you know, you do what you can when you have it to do. But, you know, she actually says I'm a little overbearing in the kitchen. So she does cook with me, but she's just to cook a lot more with me before she became a teenager.

So for the last couple of years, she's been cooking more at her dad's house. Okay. She'll come back. That's the way that works. Which I'm happy about, you know, that's fine. But she'll come back to your kitchen. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah.

She will. She will. That's what always happens. One of the wonderful things about this podcast is that we collect comfort food, recipes that means something to our guests, and we share them with our listeners. And our listeners love to road test them in their own. own kitchens. So what is the taste of home for you? If you want to gift our listeners with one of your recipes or maybe one of your mammas or your grandmas recipes, what would it be?

I mean, the thing that is most comforting to me is yogurt rice. For us, yogurt is a salty item. And so when I was growing up, especially because it's so hot in South India, it's a cool filling dish and it's just plain rice with coconut and salt and tempered spices drizzled over with hot oil afterwards and mixed. You can find that yogurt rice recipe on my Instagram on my website. There's also a New York Times video that I did for them with it. So it's everywhere. Like I said, I basically gave you the recipe. It's very easy. It's got a few curry leaves, some mustard seeds, some oil. That's about it. Some shan. chilies and you can make it as long as you have steamed rice and plain yogurt. And that to me

is very comforting when my tummy is not feeling good, when I'm tired, when I don't want to cook, but I want to eat. You know, you can always make a pot of rice really easily. That is what I go to. And we always have those spices obviously in oil and curry leaves in the fridge. And so you said tempered spices. So you want to toast those? Yeah. So tempering spices is a technique in Indian or South Asian, generally South Asian cooking, like Pakistan, Bangladesh, et cetera, where you heat oil or some kind of fat, it can also be ghee or clarified butter in a little pot or a little walk. And then you put mustard seeds, black or brown mustard seeds. It can be some cumin seeds. It can be some asafitia, some fresh chilies or dried red chilies and curry leaves.

And it was just frying those spices to release all the flavor. and all the oils come out. And the mustard seeds will start popping like popcorn. And you just turn the stove off and you take that hot oil and you pour it over the yogurt rice. And it's wonderful. And you can eat that with Indian pickles. You can have a stir-fried vegetable dish on the side with that yogurt rice.

You know, in the winter, we put pomegranate seeds in yogurt rice. In the summer, sometimes we'll put, you know, a little bit, little chunked peeled cucumber. So you have a little texture in it. My mother would, you know, fry chilies separately that were preserved and put them in there. My grandmother would fry lotus root to give a crunch and put those in there. So every house, every cook has their own preferences. You could even fry lentils when you're frying the curry leaves and mustard seeds in there and that will give you some crunch. And so tempering spices, it's called portico in Tamil. And it's called Tadbri in Hindi. And we temper and add tempering spices with oil to a plethora of dishes, to lentil dishes,

to all kinds of curries, a lot of food. So it's a very hallmark technique of Indian cooking. You have succeeded in making me very hungry right now. Oh, good. I would like some of that rice right now and think I may run home and get in the kitchen and try to figure out, I have much of what you mentioned already in my pantry. Great. Yeah, use equal parts, steamed rice, but make sure the rice is cool. Equal parts, rice to yogurt, low fat, plain yogurt, and then salt to taste, and then just heat oil, two tablespoons or one and a half tablespoons of oil, one, three-quarter teaspoon of mustard seeds, a little bit of dry red chili.

And you can use key? I don't use e. I use sesame oil, non-toasted sesame oil, but avocado oil is fine, vegetable oil, any neutral oil that doesn't have taste, I wouldn't use olive oil because it has a taste and it has a low smoke

point, so you don't want that. But you could use dry red chilies, dry whole red chilies, and if you can get fresh curry leaves, you can order them online, or any, you know, South Asian market, Indian grocery store will always have them. You just throw in

like a dozen leaves at the end because they'll start popping too because the moisture and leaves you always add the curry leaves at the end you heat it on medium the mustard seeds in then you turn down the heat a little bit and as soon as those mustard seeds start popping throw the other stuff in there just swirl it around to heat it through a little bit and pour it and makes a beautiful noise when it hits the cold yogurt rice and it's probably just beautiful do that in a swirl. I can't wait to try it. I've loved this conversation.

Thank you so much. I know it was going to be wonderful. And it was. Thank you so much. I told you she was a dream guest for this show. It was great to hear her stories. It was great to hear about her projects, her cookbook. And I look forward to trying that recipe at home.

Now, before we let you go, just a reminder that our inbox is open. We want you to share your stories, maybe some of your memories, tell us about Your Mama's Kitchen. If you have thoughts on one of the previous episodes, we'd like to hear that too. You can make a recording, either audio or video, and send it to us at YMK at Higher Ground Productions.com. Hope we hear from you.

And if you also want to try the yogurt rice recipe, you can go to our website at Your Mama's Kitchen.com, and you will find the recipe with step-by-step instructions, and while you're there, spend a little time at the website because we have all the recipes from all the previous episodes. episodes. Thanks for being with us today. Hope you'll come back soon because you know here we're

always, always, always serving at something special. Until then, be bountiful.