Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - Peacefully Bringing 65 People to the Table with Tony Shalhoub and Josie Adams

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

How do you share a house, a kitchen, and a week with 60+ relatives and still want to do it again next year? Award-winning actor Tony Shalhoub and his daughter Josie Adams, co-authors of the upcoming cookbook "We Thought They'd Never Leave", share their family's rules for curating the perfect family week under one roof. It's a primer for anyone with a beach house, a holiday crowd, or a family that wants to stay close. Tony also takes us back to his childhood kitchen in Green Bay, with his nine siblings, and a basement stove where his aunties baked Syrian bread for the whole neighborhood. Plus, we learn to make warm stuffed grape leaves and a Lebanese green bean dish called Loubieh. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I will confess that I have worn a cheesehead once or twice in my life. I don't make a habit of it. I don't have any problem with it. But if someone passed you a cheese hat at the stadium in a moment of exuberance, you would gladly put it on your head. I would not say no. Hello, hello, and welcome back to your Mama's Kitchen. This is the podcast where we explore how we are shaped as adults,

by the kitchens that we grew up in as kids. And of course, I'm talking about the food, but so much more. All the stuff that happened there. The arguments, the homework that you did at the kitchen table, the stuff that was on at the radio, the way that your mama may have canned or made jelly or made, I don't know, homemade brew, whatever it was, we want to hear about it. And today we're going to hear about it from someone who's really special.

Tony Shaloup is here. He's also going to join us with his daughter, Josie Adams, who's going to jump in the conversation a little bit later. Let me tell you a little bit about Tony before we begin. His name is recognizable because he is an Emmy, Tony, and Golden Globe-winning actor. His careers have spanned film, television, and theater. I don't know if I want to say you're best known for your role in Monk because you're known for your role in Monk, but you're also known for your role in Wings.

In The Marvelous Mrs. Meisel, you have appeared in dozens of a clans. films and television projects. You were in the band's visit on Broadway. You're in the Heidi Chronicles on Broadway where you met your wife, Brooke Adams. I could go on and on and on and on, but I'm going to stop there so we can begin our conversation. Welcome to your mama's kitchen. Thank you. Martha's Vineyard Edition.

Yes, and I'm so happy to be here. Not just because you're here on the island, but because I'm such an admirer of your... Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I mean, I have to tell you, we are doing this in Martha's Vineyard, where we both spend time each summer. and I have seen you over the years at Allie's General Store, at the Farmers Market, and I have had to contain myself. Because I know that you're with your family, you're doing your thing.

I didn't want to interrupt. But it was really hard for me not to sneak up and say, ah! Thank you. And I also had, when my mother was still alive, I had to, like, literally, in Allie's General Store, you were there one day, and I had to, like, body block her, like full body block. So she didn't. She was such a big monk fan.

So here at the show, we always began by, you know, asking that very simple question. Tell me about your mom's kitchen. Your mother was Helen. Yes. Your father was Joe. That's right. You grew up in Wisconsin. Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Where it's very cold. I'm from Minnesota. Yes, you know. A long winter. Long winters that, you know, start in what, October and last until June, pretty much. It's pretty much snow in June. Yeah. Yeah.

But take. Take me back to Green Bay. Take me back to the street you grew up on, take me back to the house you grew up in, and tell me about that kitchen. Right. Well, okay, so we grew up in the older part of Green Bay on the east side, old neighborhood. We lived about two and a half blocks from our school, a parochial school, and a church there across from the school.

And it was a big. Actually, I thought it was big. I've been back since to look at it. It doesn't really look that big. But it seemed so big to us then. But when my family, my parents bought this house and moved there by now seven children into it, they redid the kitchen because the kitchen wasn't suited to a large family. And they moved that stove down in the basement during the renovation, which, as well,

all renovations, as happens with all renovations, took longer than it was supposed to. And so, again, this is prior to my birth, but my older siblings have told me there was a month or two where they ate, they had to eat in the basement because there was, the kitchen was gutted and being rebuilt. And so they used this stove and they must have held the old refrigerator down there too, Although when I was growing up, it was gone. And they set out kind of a primitive table, I guess. And my mother somehow worked miracles in the basement.

And I write about this in the book. Great, great breads were baked in that by the old aunties. Loves of Syrian bread were baked in that oven. We're going to talk to them about that because our family had a kitchen in the basement also. Really? And they called it the summer kitchen because when it was too hot to bake upstairs, they often bake downstairs. But first, tell me more about the kitchen. We'll get to that. Well, there wasn't really a kitchen kitchen. It was actually the room with the furnace.

And it just had this stove. And then when the kitchen was upstairs was finished and new appliances were put in there, they very wisely and possibly arbitrarily held on to that old stove in the basement. It was hooked up to gas. It wasn't really in the. away so they figured well just keep it for a backup maybe and then later on it turned out that these old aunties of ours would come and bake bread down there and it was it turned into kind of a heavenly a heavenly place if you're listening to this you can't see Tony's face but when you talk about them baking bread you I mean look at that smile that's such a obviously warm memory for you very very warm Because of the way, you know, these two characters were from the old country and they were just so

sort of exotic to us and did not speak much English and but we're you know, we're always like flipping the bread and you know, flipping the dough in the air and They were I wouldn't say they were Warm and fuzzy exactly to us. They were you know, they were working hard and it was hot down there probably and they but they were really good at what they did. did and they made an incredible product which we munched on for weeks afterwards because they would you know stock us with with these literally like stacks and stacks of this flat flat Syrian bread loaves thin crispy Syrian bread and bread and so I do have

fond memories well first of all it filled the house with the most incredible you know, fresh baked bread smell. Not just the house, but those, that smell would seep to the, into the outdoors, and then neighborhood kids would gather because they knew what was going on. Oh, and they get a taste of the bread? And they would all get a taste. Yeah. Yeah, so it was fond memories.

So you host a show where you travel the world looking for bread right now. Is that the origin story? Is that how that began? That's part of the origin story, yes. Breaking Bread, which CNN gave us. six episodes for the first season. Now we're waiting to see if it's going to go further. But yeah, it was, it was a kind of bread was, it played a big role, I think, in, in, in my childhood. I remember my father, father loved bread, all kinds of bread, mostly fresh bakery

bread. And because he grew up in Lebanon, in, before and then during the First World War, things, you know, bread, bread was scarce when the war hit. And food was scarce for him and his siblings. And then his parents died during that period. And so the hunger was a very, very deep and profound memory for him. But so he, and he loved food and he savored food.

but bread was to him was like the thing it was that that thing sent from God or something and I could watch him just devour an entire loaf of bread in a sitting and he wasn't like a heavy guy he was a big guy but he was not he was healthy and he was he was just it just had this the way he relished it and and appreciated it. I think gave us a real I think that was really the way they modeled for us giving us an appreciation for

the good stuff and how much work and effort went into the good stuff. There were 10 kids in the household. That's right. I'm the second youngest of 10. It's the second youngest of 10. Okay, so take me into that kitchen upstairs after the renovation. Did you all eat in shifts?

No, no, we ate all together. So what they did, because there were so many of us, they designed it in such a way. There was a big banquette on one side of the kitchen, very large. And it was at a curved bench, you know, and a big formica, a white formicotop long table that slid into that, into that booth. And then there were, so a few chairs would be dotted around the outside. but mostly it was that wooden bench. I can see it so vividly.

And you would just scoge around until the thing was full. And another really deep-seated memory when we were very little. And if you were stuck sort of on the inside of the booth, instead of asking 14 people to move so you could get out, you just crawled under the table. Oh, if you had to use a bathroom or something. Yeah. If you had to go to the bathroom, if you wanted to get to the refrigerator,

if you wanted to just if you were finished eating and it was time you just scoot it out until you were too big to do that but um so so that kitchen so that was one side of the kitchen and then the other side of course was the stove which my mother was always at she lived at that stove god ah when i think of how much um help we didn't give her and should have given her i don't know she was tireless and um and uh i hope she I like to think she liked it, although by the time my older siblings were kind of up and out, you know, and the younger of the younger five were coming up, I think she was kind of over it. You know, she was always asking us, what should I make? I'm out of ideas.

Just like, give me, help me out here. Just throw anything out there. And I'll, but she never, she never, she never flagged. She really did. She really did it well. Another kind of key memory of that kitchen was that we didn't have a dishwasher for many years when I was growing up. It was when we finally got a dishwasher, it was a big deal. If you have 10 kids, why do you need a dishwasher? Well, that was my father's argument until the day they moved it in there.

And, you know, there was an effort to spread the workout. You know, you take turns doing the dishes. Somebody's washing. Somebody's drying. I did it last night. It's your turn. No, I did it this morning. The dishwasher then finally kind of like that those battles subsided.

And wow, I think that was the most revered appliance in the kitchen once that came in. That's a game changer. Yeah. Yeah. I grew up with a dishwasher. My mom took the dishwasher out. Ah. And we only had three kids.

And she said, I have daughters. Why do I hate a dishwasher? There you go. I could use the storage space. Dishwasher gone. With 10 people at the table, 10 kids at the table, two adults, sometimes you have friends. Were you able to have, like, ask friends over to? There were friends there a lot.

Okay. Because sometimes when you have a table that big, there's not room for others. But you had a lot of people at the table. We had a lot of people there. Yeah. You just crowded it. I mean, but all my older siblings had friends. And, you know, I was a younger.

We had little, you know, little friends. coming in. That was a thing about, I think, our kitchen, it was sort of, it was always open. It wasn't even meal time. It was just the center of the house, really. You know what? It's funny how nowadays, and I think you'll concur, you know, people would drop in, which they, I don't think people do that really anymore. You barely locked your door at some point. Right. We never locked our door but I'm just saying you know now you like you text or play dates or something is it'll be come here we're going to be there Tuesday at 11 o'clock then it was just like open door it was a revolving door especially if the food was good you know the food was good the coffee with my mother

always had the coffee on and um but it was sort of like just people just drop in relatives surely but but neighborhood people friends or you know it was it was kind of great Great. Is that where you first learned how to be funny? With, you know, in my family? Yeah, oh, for sure. Was that your first audience? Built in audience. You know, constantly there. And my older, they're all funny. They're all really. And a lot of their humor kind of sort of filtered down to me, I think.

And I'm definitely not the funniest. I can promise you that. And you're pretty funny, so that must be... But there... A hoot when you all get together. But there was always... You know, we're always kind of entertaining each other in a way because there were so many. You know what I mean?

And by the way, we were talking about the dishwasher before. We also did not have a television when I was growing up. Was that a parental strategy? He just didn't want it. He just didn't need... They had a big radio. Because, you know, it's my... older siblings were there was a stereo i mean like a record player thing um high-fi um but the tv was

late in coming and uh i remember i didn't you know the only tv i saw was if i went to my friend's house across the street or went to my grandparents had a tv and we would just be go there and just get locked in because it was such a novelty And then finally, finally, you know, we were like probably the last house of all of our friends and relatives to get a TV. And I think my father regretted it from the day it arrived. Because you stopped talking to each other. Well, because we stopped. We weren't then we weren't playing and entertaining and creating on our own.

We were creating our own stories when we didn't have that. But the radio, I have to say, the radio was one. of those big you know the radios that was like a big piece of furniture that's in the console yes yes yes thank you big speakers and gorgeous wooden thing and uh that was a real draw until the tv but but before the tv we were really you know much more much more into playing with each other and playing performing for each other not just play acting but also music and so Was your mother an ingredient cook? Did she cook from scratch or, because this is an era where convenience cooking was starting to creep into grocery stores, you know, where you could just add water and

stir, hamburger help or that kind of thing. Did she reach for convenience cooking or was she a old school cook? That's a great question. In the early going, she was an ingredients of cook. And when it came to the ethnic food, to the Lebanese food, it was. always it always had to be everything had to be done step by step by hand with the best you know with the best ground meat and the best vulgar and all of that fresh watercress and uh but as as as i said as it as the years went on and she was like starting to like be kind of over it she reached for the campbell soup she reached for the jello she reached anything that was instant yeah well no we We never were allowed those, but there were, there did enter into the game, you know, more of, more of the convenience food.

Sure. How did your parents find ingredients for authentic Lebanese food? Where do they get Mahalab and, you know, things like this? Because, you know, we now have ethnic aisles in the grocery stores, but they probably didn't back then. No, they didn't have that then. And there had certain ingredients had to be, you know, like brought up from, you know, the Milwaukee or Chicago or, you know, other places like that. But but I do remember, one of the things that we always had on hand as common as bread and butter in most households was homemade Lubney. and because that was something that was just always in demand.

And it was, you know, because we were in the dairy state, it was milk was plentiful and affordable. And we loved it. So we have listeners who don't know what Labna is. And I'm guessing that not everybody knows. So tell us what it is and how did your brother make it? Well, it's yogurt. It's homemade yogurt.

I mean, and this was before yogurt was a thing, before it was trendy and before it was in everybody in every on every store shelf and in everyone's refrigerator and this was homemade and someone the all of the my grandmother and my aunts and uncles they had to starter and that starter was saved from you know a previous batch and much like sourdough is passed around today there and there was like there was the starter and then there was the really good starter that you know that was kind of sought after and like who's got the real stuff because this stuff would just you know would go for years really who had the real stuff they could keep it going well we would get occasionally you'd get a you'd get some of that good stuff and uh it was called

raubi that was the that was the the starter the culture right and uh so Yeah, it, they would, she would take a gallon or two of milk, put it in a pot on the stove, heated to a certain temperature, not boiling, add the starter, you know, that had to cool. And then I will never forget this. She, it had to set, right? So we always had a pot on one of our steam radiators in one of the living room or the music room. and there would be a, you'd see a coat hanging over the, a winter coat, hanging over a pot on the, on the, on the, on one of the old radiators, the old metal radiators.

Yeah, the metal radiators. Well, it had, those had covers then. They had these metal covers that had were hinged so you could add water to the tray that was, remember that? Mm-hmm. To keep the humidity in the air, right? So this pot would sit on the radiator with a winter coat hanging over. And when we came in from outside and we saw that coat, we knew that we were a day or two away from fresh, fresh, lavony.

And there's something about Labner, like, the first two days. Yeah. It's different. Yeah. It's just a different consistency, different. Well, it was really, yeah, there was that, it got to that certain, you know, it congealed, and then it was just that you'd take that spoon and it was just like this perfect, like a driven snow, right?

You'd just peel it off. And then what my grandmother did was, she would. take the finished lobony and she would put it she would put a like a white clean white dishcloth or or cheesecloth I guess in a bowl and then she would pour some of the lobne into that take the ends of the of the towel or the cheesecloth and gather it up so that would it would create like a sack and then they would she would tie it to the handle of the cupboard right and and they would and they would drain it, drain the liquid out into the bowl. And once that liquid had gone down,

now you have like this almost like cream cheese. It was like thick. And then she would make balls with it and put in those balls would go in oil in a jar of oil. And then those would last for a million years. And that was a spreadable, you know, real thick, spreadable. But some of that Syrian bread that must have just been. with big black, you know, like Greek olives and the Syrian bread and the yogurt.

And that was that was the most special. I should have eaten before this conversation. Me too. Your father was a meat peddler. And your mother's family owned a candy store. Yes, that family, that candy store is still in his distance and has been passed on to, you know, the next third, now the third generation. and fourth generation and is thriving and expanded. And they do a mail order business.

What's the name so people know? Suru G's S-E-R-O-O-G-Y. And it's well, it's hand-dip chocolates and it's incredible. And I was started by my grandfather, by my mother's father and his brother way back, 100 and God knows how many years ago. And it was a confectionery, and then it became, you know, hand-dipped chocolates. And those passed down to my uncle and then to his sons and now to their offspring. And still going strong.

So did you have chocolate around the house all the time? Well, we weren't allowed to have it all the time. But on special occasions, we would load up and binge a bit. But we always like to go to my uncle Alves, or as we lovingly called him Uncle Almond. Because the chocolate-covered almonds. So you call Uncle Almond. But Uncle Al and my aunt, Hilda, going to their house was great because they had cookies and they had the candy and they had. And she was a great cook too.

So how did having family members who were involved in the food industry, how did that affect your relationship with food and your view of food? As I said, you know, my father had this refrigerator truck, which is how he, you know, distributed his. product he was not he didn't work for a company he bought from a from a local sausage maker and then he he built up this route and he would go on his run he would deliver to two stores into different places and so in our garage in our driveway was his his his truck and we ate out of that truck a lot I mean whatever was you know in there or leftover you know we're missing something at a meal you just say somebody would run out to the truck it was plugged in of course because it was

refrigerated and grab you know some summer sausage or some ring bologna or some you know some winners or whatever it was that was our our existence was kind of like eating that kind of American Midwestern fair and and Lebanese fair kind of alternating and mixing. I guess it gave me a really an eclectic taste for food. I was, you know, we would, we would, they were always trying to get us to try different things and, you know, we were hungry, so we did. Did you know? And there were a lot of us, so you had to, you had to get it while you could.

Yeah, I was wondering being second youngest. Yeah, it was a little bit. arms are short. Yes, right. And you were kind of, you know. Did mom have to look out for you to make sure that you got to look out for yourself pretty much at that table? But it wasn't that they were so grabby.

It was just that, you know, certain people had large appetites and they had longer arms, as you say. So. But none of us, you know, none of us were wanting. I went to school in Wisconsin, so I, you know, brought some cheese curds or the other things. Yeah, cheese curds, I wasn't, that wasn't my thing. Because we like really good cheese. But brats for sure.

My dad had brots on the truck. That was, they were, in the summer we grilled them a lot. And still, when I go back and go to a Packer game or something, you have to get the Broughts. You have to get the, it's mandatory. Are you agreeing by Packers fan? I'm a season ticket holder. Okay, do you wear cheese on your head?

I confess to having. The big styrofoam pie-shaped cheese? hats that they wear up there? I will confess that I have worn a cheesehead once or twice in my life. I don't make a habit of it. I don't have any problem with it, but, you know. Okay, but if someone passed you a cheese hat at the stadium in a moment of exuberance, you would gladly put it on your head.

I would not say no. I want to see pictures. Okay. I know this is your mama's kitchen, but we have to talk about. a story about your dad, Joe. In the book that is about to be published. We thought they'd never leave. There is a chapter in here called Joe's Boy. And it's a story about your brother, Dan, doing something he shouldn't be doing at a red owl. And that got me also because my... You remember the Red Ow? I remember in Minnesota. They had Red Owl. I didn't know if that was just a

Wisconsin. No, I guess it was. It was a chain, right? Our dishes came from Red Al. You know, like if you shopped, if you brought so many cans or something, you got the plate, and then you got the saucer, and then you got the cup. It was a genius way of getting you to buy more than you needed. You're reminding me. We had brown and gold and kind of yellow dishes that came from Red Al. But your brother was doing something that he shouldn't have been doing.

Right. And he got caught. Right. He was, well, there's one of the one of my favorite stories in the book. He was 15 or yeah, he was 15 and he and his friend were shoplifting. They were taking, stealing candy, you know, large. Big bags of candy. Yeah, as my brother likes to say, my brother dances, the kind you throw over your shoulder.

That's how big they were. They weren't just like the little M&M. They were like the big. I think M&M peanuts, if I'm not mistaken. But anyway, yeah, they were, you know, they were doing what sometimes teenagers do. I never did. I was too chicken to do that. But, and they got caught.

And so the manager, because my father knew all these guys, all these, you know, he did business with all these grocery stores. Because he drove a meat truck. He was delivering. Right. He was delivering sausage to these stores. And so everyone knew them. because then it was you know it was all you know it was all very you know on a handshake and that this and everybody knew everybody and um so instead of calling the police and reporting this incident

he called my dad and uh what do you want me to do you know it's got your boy here uh do you want me to call the police and my dad said uh send him home i'll take i'll i'll deal with it and so he did that he said, and this is worse than going to the police, by the way. That story had me dabbing at my eyes and reaching for clinics on my front porch as I was reading it. Because your brother goes home and your dad doesn't yell. He's sitting at his desk. My dad was doing, yeah, was at his adding machine, you know, he was working at his desk on the landing of our stairs there. And my brother came in and, because my dad, you know, he was, he was, he was.

He was a loving father, but he could blow. You know, as, you know, as, I mean, you have 10 kids, you're going to blow. Yeah. You have two kids you're going to blow. And I think Dan was just, that walk home, you know, from the store to our house was, he was dreading every step of the way. And, but he wasn't met with thunder and lightning when he came in. And in fact, the opposite.

my father didn't even turn around from his chair he just he didn't say anything just kept adding things on his adding machine you know the little handle on the machine and the longer the silence went on and the deafening silence the more torturous it was for my brother of course because he's expecting any second the hammer is going to come down but instead my father's very calmly says, okay, well, you, I don't, I suppose you're not the first kid to, you know, steal something from a grocery store and you probably won't be the last. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to go, go upstairs, change your clothes, put on a good shirt and good pair of slacks

and some decent shoes, put on a tie, go back to that store and ask, Ralph, was the manager, for a job. And my brother was like, ah, no, anything but that. As if he had a choice. Anything but that. You can't go back there. I was embarrassed. It's humiliating.

I can't do it. He goes, my father just doesn't, just stays with it. It's super calm, uncharacteristically calm. Just do what I'm telling you to do. Just get yourself up there, you know, get cleaned up and go back there right now. So, of course, the walk from the store to my, to our house was long. That walk back to the store was, as my brother described, was even longer and slower. But he went in and, of course, the manager didn't know anything about that this was coming.

And he was shocked to see him and maybe a little impressed that he had, you know, the Cajunates to come back and face the music and he looked at my brother and sort of startled and then he just said okay well the applications are in the front and i guess it can't hurt and nothing happened after that my my brother filled out the application and went home with his tail between his legs and uh couple months later after dan turned 16 i think that in february uh he got a call from the store and they were hiring and they gave him the job, stock boy or, you know, whatever. And he kept that job all the rest of the way through school. So it was just kind of a genius move on my father's part.

You know, there's somewhat, this kid who doesn't have money and has too much time on his hands and possibly doesn't appreciate, you know, the value of things and what goes into it. And so it was just this kind of, it was this soft, softly peddled teaching moment, I guess. And it really worked. Yeah. What got me was you said he didn't give him discipline only. He gave him a path forward. And that's what you want to give your kids.

Yeah. And that's, you know, it just really touched me. It's redirecting, right? I mean, it's kind of the perfect solution. And, you know, I think what my father did, too, was it wasn't just, now as I'm talking about it, I'm realizing, you know, it wasn't just a lesson for Dan. It was a lesson for all of us, really.

An example of what's right and what's, you know, what's going to be tolerated and what isn't. It's a beautiful story. We're going to be joined in just a minute. by Tony's daughter, Josie Adams. Don't go anywhere. And we're back. And we're joined by Josie Adams, Tony's daughter, co-author of this wonderful book, we thought they'd never leave, and another seasonal resident here in Martha's Vineyard. And we began by asking Tony about his mama's kitchen. So I feel like we want to know about your mama's kitchen. Brooke Adams. Yeah, the one and only,

Brooke Adams. My mama's kitchen. Well, I grew up in Los Angeles. I was adopted at birth from Omaha, Nebraska, and my mom was a single woman when she adopted me and brought me home to L.A. And in those early days of just being the two of us before she met and married my dad, I just remember only eating what she ate. There was no kids' menu. It was, I was just really part of, part of whatever her social life was, and I was along for the ride. There was kind of no structure. It was, we were all over the place. She's very social.

She would always have dinner parties, and would take me out everywhere with her. And I was just kind of treated like one of the grownups. I really folded into her life rather than her kind of changing her life for me. And when my dad came, we, we got all. a lot more structure into our life. Oh, here are coming. How old were you then? They met when I was two and a half and got married when I was three.

But I think because it was such a big shift for me at that time, whether it's from stories or from pictures or because there was a big shift, I remember those really early days. And I remember very, very clearly when my dad joined, joined. our family. And then we started, it was very important to us to always have family dinner tonight every single night, five or five 30. We all sat around the table. It was very important that we all gathered and made that time to touch base at the end of the day. And we still do that. that's something that we still do. We always try, in my family now with my two kids,

it's really important to us to have dinner together every single night. We don't serve the kids a separate dinner and then eat dinner when they're asleep. And that's something that I learned from my childhood. It was always very important for us. And whenever we had people over, friends over, we didn't have separate food for the kids. You know, we didn't have a separate plate of chicken nuggets or a separate separate plate of mac and cheese. And there was a rule in our house when guests came over, our friends who were like, oh, I don't want that lamb chop. I'm six.

The rule was, well, you have to try one bite. You have to try one bite. And then they would generally finish the whole thing. And then they would finish the entire plate. Because if you just try it, you know, you might like it. And also if you're hungry, you're lucky to. Benign force feeding. Yeah.

That's what it was. But I, so I grew up with a very varied palate and eating good food and healthy food was really important to us too. Yeah, and specifically with my mom, my mom is not, she would never describe herself as a cook. She's not, she doesn't love to cook the way we love to cook. We love to cook together. My dad and your dad. Yes. And my mom is not a big cook, but.

She did live in Spain for four years when she was in her early 20s. And she had a boyfriend there whose nickname was Kooky. And I think he was kind of Kooky. And part of the culture there is the woman does the shopping and the cooking. And so for four years, my mom did all the shopping and did all the cooking there. And when she came back to the States, I think she didn't want to do that anymore. made him to all five million. That's where I came in.

I knew there was, I knew there had to be a reason she married me, but I wasn't sure. Because he does all the cooking or cleaning. You do all the cooking? I do most of the, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

But Brooke's good. Brooks, I mean, she makes the best paella. That's what I was going to say. She brought back a couple recipes from there. And even though she... Pia is tough. Yeah, and she makes the... He has to be patient.

She makes the most incredible paellaeia. And it's sort of her iconic dish that she makes once a year and it's a big to-do. And we even, my dad built her at our house here on the vineyard, a fire pit. For paella. You have a big saucer. Yeah. That looks like you can go sledding in one of those big saucers. Paella for.

I mean, they probably wouldn't like me calling it a saucer of pieaia pan. but it does look like a satellite dish. Yeah, you hold on to the sides and you can just go down the little bunny hill. And it's delicious and it brings everyone together. And paella is a great dish to do that. So you met Brooke Adams while you were both in the Heidi Chronicles on Broadway.

That's right. Was food part of the courtship? Well, I guess it really was. because it was actually Brooke introduced me to the vineyard I had not ever been here on my first visit here which was about a week long Josie was Josie was two right you were two and a half going on three yeah I was going on three yeah we were Brooke and Pamit rented this little house in Chilmark and I thought I would to to try to impress Brooke. I would cook a meal one night and so I called my sister to get one of my sisters to get

a recipe for tabuli which we called suffsuf. This is a story in the book. I think I just made a simple fish dish and I threw together this tabooly and it was a big hit. I was I kind of knew my way. I proved that I kind of knew my way around a kitchen. So, so yeah, I think there was a, there was a connection through food. Well, I think also something that my mom has said to me before is she, the type of house that she grew up in and becoming a working actress at a very young age, she was always taking care of people. She was taking care of her family and a lot of the people around her. and something she said to me is then when my dad came, he started taking care of her,

and she was very impressed by that. Oh, you can be the one to make this meal. And you can, you know, it was a, yeah. It's a nice way to relax into a relationship. One of the things I loved about the book is getting a look into your family. And not just your family, Tony, but the big family. Yeah.

You know, your family, all the siblings, gather every year in Door County, Wisconsin, which is rural Wisconsin, beautiful, a lot of lakes. Yes, farms, cherry orchards. Cherry orchards, yes. And you all gather and you do it every single year in July. So, I mean, how many people, how do you do this? That sounds wonderful and it also sounds a little zany. it's it's daunting yeah it's why do we do that josie you know what that's a very good question no one

knows why we do it this book i think is trying to well now it's immortalized you have to continue to do it now yes the book the book the strives to answer that question of the of not just the why but the how and the logistics there is a in fact a chapter called the logistics it's it's complicated And it's evolved over the years, you know, because the numbers were smaller in the early going, obviously. And so there was one system. And that system had to be altered and abandoned and reworked as the numbers grew and then grew again. And then now, thank God, we have, you know, the millennials and the family. And, you know, they have skills with spreadsheets and computers and which none of my.

siblings could handle that. So now it's all done, you know, with the push of a button. How many people? How many people? How many? What are there? No, I'm asking. How many people? Oh, how many people like show up? Well, it's, when everybody's there, I think the numbers, we're up into the mid-50s or high-50s, right? I remember one meal. So everybody sends in their schedules and we figure out who's on crew for what days and how many there are for each night. I was a head chef one night and the number was 65. Okay. I was cooking for 65 people. So everyone signs up for a day? Sign. Every family signs up for a day. Well, you volunteer and say if you're willing to lead a meal. And then my cousin Libby, who now really helps a lot with with the organizing of the spreadsheets.

we do a tally or take a poll really of who's willing to lead a night. So you take a poll because is there also don't let her lead a night. Yes. Is there that too? Yes. We need to usher her and do another role. And then there's, you know, of course, there's all these hilarious family dynamics and, you know, one beloved auntie who I won't name Cizan, who even if,

she is not on one of the crews, she will be in the kitchen helping. Can't get her out of the kitchen. And thank God because we, you know, she's the first one up making us all coffee and, you know, she keeps it running. She's a chef's not sure what's going to happen if she's not there. What a beautiful tradition though. The book speaks to this too. We keep it going as a kind of homage to our parents who really wanted to, wanted to keep things cohesive and not let it splendor. as sometimes happens with families. You know, one of the reasons that we stay here as a family is my husband and I decided that if we did this, our kids would always come visit us here.

It becomes the glue, and they do. And they bring back other people and the household is big and loud. And one of the things that I appreciated about your book is it's kind of a primer on how to live together under one roof that is not your primary household. And one of the big rules is it's not a vacation. Yeah, that's right. I think everybody has something to do. I think the difference is that a vacation, I think a vacation is what you do for yourself.

This, whatever this is, that we do, is you do it for the others. You know, it's an act, it's an offering rather than something that you do. That's a beautiful way to think about it. It's, it's, it's, then you, after you do that, after we do that for a week, then you can go and have a vacation for your, You probably need one after that.

Michelle, I'm so glad you mentioned that this book feels in a way like a primer for how to get this all together because one of my favorite chapters that we didn't include until the 11th hour. And I think it really is one of almost the most important chapters in the book is off the table. You know, this many people, there's different political leanings, there's different religious belief. there's so many different kinds of people and of all ages of all beliefs and that can be very challenging but what I love so much about this reunion is it's a neutral at least as much as we try you know of course people are people and it can be hard sometimes but that doesn't need to be on the table. Those things don't always need to be the focus. We can use this time to play cards. Find common ground. We're going to cook together. We're going to eat together. We're going to

swim together. We're going to play cards together. And we're going to create these memories and topics of conversation that can fuel our continued relationships. The work is key to it. Yes. The work. requires collaboration and the work requires a give and take and and so and that's why the work is as important as the fun yeah and working out the work I it's it's really if you if you have a beach house situation holidays it really is a good you know book to pull for this and people have different tastes you know also one of the things I also loved about the book Tony is you're you're picky picky. Well, about certain things.

But I actually understood you. You know, there's a chapter where I guess you interviewed him and you figured out what he doesn't like to eat. I too do not understand sun dried tomatoes. Okay. I'm not alone then. What is the point of them? I cannot. They don't even plump back up when they get...

I love sun dried tomatoes. Oh, really? When used correctly. I think I need to get you, get your mind changed about sun dried tomatoes. Good luck. Okay. I'm, I'm, there's no, I just don't even understand it. I mean, as you noted, they're not sun dried.

They're dehydrated. That's what I, yes, that's a lie. The name is a lie. I mean, we talked to, to, to, and Eircia, and he gave us a recipe that included raisins in a way that I didn't think. I thought it was kind of weird, you know, because it was a savory dish. Oh, yeah. But the raisins then plumped up and became. I like raisins.

Well, but they ceased to be raisins because they cooked so long. in this chicken brothy kind of onion garlicky situation. And then they became little flavor bombs. They exploded in your mouth because they absorb. That sounds good. A sun-dried tomato. They're defiant. They don't absorb.

They don't absorb anything. So you also don't like cream spinach. Yeah. You love cream spinach. I love cream spinach. Yeah. The face you just made. If I go to a steakhouse, you better believe I'm ordering the cream spinach.

Yeah. Yeah, and you're not. You look like a monk right now. Not only my not ordering it, I'm not looking at it. Yes, I know. It's a texture thing. And you don't like Kiwis. I depart with you there.

I actually love a Kiwi. Really? Yeah. You say that they're, what is that you said about the, the, you're kind of brinkly. Whiskey. Whiskey. Whiskey. Yes. Harry.

They're hairy. Now that we know about your food aversions, we always ask our guests to share with us a recipe that means something to them. And our listeners really love that. And we have a whole collection that you can find if you go to our website. What are you sharing with us today, each of you, and I assume that it will not have sundry tomatoes in it? No, mine does not.

Do you want to start? Well, one of my favorite recipes from the book, and that also just reminds me so much of my family and my childhood are the warm stuffed grape leaves. Warm grape leaves because they're often not served warm. Exactly. They're often served cold, dolmos, the Greek version of grape leaves. My family makes them stuffed with lamb and beef mixed with tomatoes and lemon juice and cinnamon, salt pepper, sometimes other spices.

And you stack them up in a pot, you roll them like cigars, and it's a big family event, which is so fun and you stack them up and then you pour tomato juice over it and you bake it until they're warm and they are so deeply flavorful and comforting it's impossible to have just one they're great the second day or they're great cold out of you know out of the fridge the next day you know if i do a cookbook that's what it's going to be better the next day but cinnamon yeah that was i looked at the recipe. That was the surprise for me. Just gives it a little depth. It gives it depth. Yeah, exactly.

Depth and warmth. It's in the book, so I'm going to try that. Another one in the book that I, that I love. And it's actually, it's in, because of one chapter of my earliest, my earliest food memory, one whole chapter devoted to that.

And I was very young. I was three. I was probably your child, Tess's age. And, it was a it was a it was a kind of a the memory and the food were important because of the the in the incident of that that memory was the my younger sister being brought home from the hospital you know she was my young sister was born and I was I was three and you were no longer the young and I was dethroned the golden child which I had grown accustomed to and I

I was quite fond of that role. And now I, that, my reign was over. And, and so there was a bit of a shock to the system. Remed by the trauma of that was remedied by a dish that was prepared that day that someone had brought over to our house. And it became a favorite from mine. And it's, it's called Lubibzite, which is, it's basically super simple. It's green beans cooked in, you know, garlicy, oniony mixture, tomatoes, stewed tomatoes, cooked tomatoes on rice. That's the typical version, the typical Lebanese version, but my family always added meat to it, chunks of lamb, you know, tender, slow, cooked.

And so you could, you know, you have this white rice and then this kind of ladling on the meat and the beans and the tomato and the juice of the tomatoes like running into the rice. It's such a comforting, colorful dish. And all of these elements, you wouldn't think a three-year-old would gravitate to or be enticed. buying. But the aroma of it and the sort of the kind of the very textures of it all just grabbed me. And that recipe is in the book. Is that your rosebud recipe on a tough day? When you need comfort food, is that what you still reach for? It's a comfort. It is the ultimate comfort food,

I think. And maybe it's, maybe it has other emotional connections. It's like, you know, it reminds me of my mother and it reminds me of, do you know what I mean? And because she made it so beautifully. And we didn't have it often, but which made it even more special. It was, it was that thing that you just kind of like, I'm in the mood for that dish. And where was it? And then finally, finally it would arrive. Tell me the significance of the name before we let you go.

We thought they'd never leave. So that is, it's not meant to be a cynical, cynical connotation. But you know, in a full household, I think I told you, my husband sometimes holds this up. Silently. It's cold, yeah. So we have this thing involved in our family reunions every summer. On the last day, when people are trying to pack up and they're, They're loading up their cars and they're getting their kids in the cars and they're getting

ready to leave. We don't let people just leave quietly and without shame. So a large number of us gather along the driveway in a line holding hands. And as the car is pulling out, we would raise our hands and say, we thought they'd never leave as shouting it out as they drove off. And we do it every time, and it never gets old. It's always fun. And you still do that to this day.

Yeah, we do it. And the young people now join in that. We want to keep it going. That's really wonderful. Sounds like a film. Yeah, and then after everybody leaves, we start planning the next reunion a week later. Which is completely psychotic. Or actually, it sounds like a lot of fun.

you might have people trying to crash crash your view. It is so much fun. It does sound like a lot of fun. As you say when you gather for dinner almost as a form of grace before you eat, I'm going to repeat you here and saying we are so lucky. We are so lucky. I understand that

that's what's said at your table at night. So I'm going to repeat that we are so lucky that we got to sit down with both of you. This has been a delicious conversation. Thank you. This was such a treat. It was a pleasure talking to Tony and Josie. I am indeed hungry. I loved hearing about their family traditions. You do want to get a copy of

this book. We thought they'd never leave. It is also delicious. And it's funny. And it's not just a cookbook. It's a memoir. And it is a handbook for a life well led. Thanks for listening. We always love to hear from you. So make sure to check out our website to find recipes from all of our previous guests. And we'd love to hear from you. You can reach us to send us stories about your Mama's Kitchen. Take care. Be boundable. Well, that's it for this episode of Your Mama's Kitchen. If you want to join us in the kitchen, email us a voice memo or a message at yMK at acast.com. That's the letters, YMK at A-C-A-S-T.com. Tell us a story, send us a recipe, just say, hey, we want to hear about your

Mama's Kitchen. And if you tell us a story, we might just feature it on. an upcoming episode. I'm Michelle Norris, host and executive producer. Your Mama's Kitchen is an ACAST Original's production. Our lead producer is Maddie Fully. Producers include Taylor Williamson, Sarah Schlead, and Joya Putt Noyn, along with Melissa Bear with Say What Media. Our editor is Grace Lynch.

The executive producer team includes Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Booking support from Angela Paluso at Day Moon Talent. Our show's closing song is 504 by the soul rebels. Special thanks to Martha's Vineyard Community Television and Clean Cut Studio in Washington, D.C. We're glad you're here. We hope you come back next week because guess what? We are always, always, always serving up something special. Stay mindful.