Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - Phil Rosenthal Is Anthony Bourdain If He Was Afraid Of Everything

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Food adventurer Phil Rosenthal joins the show to talk about his childhood, his love of fluffy eggs, and how his breakout hit, Everybody Loves Raymond, came to be. He reminisces about the trip to Paris that changed his life and what he thinks money should really be spent on. Plus, he previews what’s on the menu at his new Los Angeles diner with Nancy Silverton—including an ode to his parents’ nightly Egg Cream, recipe included.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Your Mama's Kitchen is brought to you by Rivian. I'm only using food and my stupid sense of humor to get you this real message, that the world will be better if we all could experience a little bit of other people's experiences. That's why I'm here. That's why that, so it's not just a guy eating. First of all, I get bored if that was the whole show, and I'm the guy eating. I don't want to see that. It's only there because food is the great connector.

Yes, it is. And then for me, laughs are the cement. So we share a meal, have a nice time, food's great, that's all nice. But if over that meal we can share a smile or a laugh, now we're friends, we'll eat again. Hello, hello, and welcome back to your mama's kitchen. This is the place where we explore how we are shaped as adults by the kitchens that we grew up in as kids. And yes, I'm talking about the food, but so much more. the laughter, the sibling rivalries, the important conversations, the music on the radio.

I'm Michelle Norris. And my guest today is Phil Rosenthal. He's the host of somebody feed Phil, which you can find on Netflix. He travels all over the world and tries all kinds of new cuisines with new people and with the sort of curiosity that makes us feel like we are right there with him, no matter where he is. before he was a food and travel host, he made a name for himself as the curator of a hit sitcom that I probably am assuming that you have heard of.

It's called Everybody Loves Raymond. And now he's got a new cookbook called Phil's favorites. Phil, welcome to the show. Thank you, Michelle. It's so nice to be with you. This is the first time we've met, and I have a feeling that this is going to be one of my favorite conversations.

I just have that vibe. You're sweet. Because I feel like I've gotten to know you watching you travel all over the place and try all kinds of foods. Were you always an adventurous eater? No, I was not. You know, I know the name of the show is Mama's Kitchen.

I have to be honest, Mama's Kitchen in my house, not Paradise. Oh, uh-oh. Uh-oh. Well, I don't know how many guests you have who say that, but I've actually met great chefs who said that their moms weren't terrific cooks. And it was when they left the house. that they discovered the world. And so it was with me.

And I'm talking about flavors that I never had garlic. No garlic. I never tasted garlic until I went to college. The only condiment in our house was salt. Is salt actually a condiment? But that's all there was. So yes, it was a condiment in this case. It was something you put on the thing.

you're supposed to eat. So that's a condiment, right? And so, and that's it? Yes, we had ketchup and mustard. Let's say the only spice. Okay, but you did have ketchup and mustard? Did mom allow that? Yeah. A little bit of ketchup, a little bit of mustard. Yeah, well, we put it on everything. Hot sauce? No. In fact, I'm sure we'll get to this later, but I'm opening a diner with our friend Nancy Silverton here in L.A. And it is a tribute to my parents. It's called Max and Helens. And we can get into that more later, but you mentioned hot sauce. We have a hot sauce because most people in the world like hot sauce, not them.

And so on the label, it says Max and Helens, not for me, hot sauce. Not for me. Have all you want. I won't be having. Not for me. There's a picture of them like this. That's hilarious. So we didn't have a lot of money growing up.

Both parents worked. It was all my mom could do to get food on the table. Dad was no help at all. He couldn't open a can of soup. But the couple of things that she made well, she made very well. Matsaball soup, very good, right? Could do a rose chicken, very nice.

But that was it. Everything else, like the steak was like a punishment. It was just the cheapest grade of beef, and it was just until it was shoe leather. And I couldn't leave the table until I finished. So it felt like a punishment. Am I alone? No, you're not alone.

You're not alone. I think many of us, and my mother was a very, very good cook, but there were a few things that kind of felt like hockey bucks. I think many of us have had that experience. Where did you grow up and take me inside the kitchen? Can you describe it? Because we may feel like we sort of know your kitchen from everybody loves Raymond. We actually showed my mom's kitchen that she,

where they moved in New York. That was an episode in the New York episode. And we showed it. But it wasn't the kitchen that I actually grew up in, I would say the most, which would have been in New City, New York, in Rockland County, about a half an hour north of the city. I was born in Queens. We lived in the Bronx until I was nine. I kind of remember that kitchen, but I was a little kid. but from 9 to 17, the bulk of growing up was this tiny kitchen in this little thousand square foot house in New City, New York. And again, they worked. And it was a very small, it was a stove, a sink, an oven. And there was room for just that tiny amount of counter space. Then a small kitchen table for four, my brother, me, my parents, the fridge and, and, you know, a tiny pantry, tiny,

and then cupboards above the stove and the sink, that's it. Nothing fancy. And every single meal was eaten in that little room. I mean little, really little. This room I'm showing you right now, twice the size of that. Did you all have assigned seats at the table? I did. Yeah, we did.

Everybody knew where they sat. You and your brother never smote. Dad sat back to the fridge. Mom sat with her back to the counter because, you know, she was also had to serve everyone. That's how it was in the 60s and 70s. The men didn't help. We just were like, why is she crying? Why is she upset?

Where's our food? Terrible. We were terrible. Did you have KP duty? Did you have to clean the kitchen? No. No. I had other chores, but they didn't involve the kitchen.

I don't know why that is. Load the dishwasher or empty the dishwasher. Yes, that I could. Yes, that was it. But I didn't clean anything myself. I didn't do anything. You know, they were great parents in terms of really, being supportive and nurturing, and they were really funny.

So when we weren't yelling and crying, we were laughing. And we often laughed a lot at that little dinner table. Well, that's a gift. That's a real gift. I would say more important than the food. Uh-huh. And it helps us understand how you created such a lasting and lovable show because your parents were the model for raised parents. I always told, I tell young parents when they

ask me now for advice because my kids are grown. I don't know, are your kids all grown now? Yeah, my kids are grown and launched. Yeah. And I just, I can't give any better advice than model the behavior you want to see in your kids because they may not listen to you, but they see and hear everything you're doing. And you are their first teacher. You. You're a good model. Yep. That's it. Maybe the best teacher because you get them longer, right, than anyone else. So if you model the behavior, you think, I don't know about you, but I used to think,

nothing's getting through to these kids. What did I do wrong? What did we do wrong? And then all of a sudden, you turn around and you love them even more because they heard you. Yeah. It's in there. Right? It's in there.

Yeah. And sometimes even they quote you to you and you don't want to get all excited, but you're like, it actually worked. Yes. It went in there, it's somewhere in their, deep in their DNA. It actually worked. You're really tall. Six foot. Yeah. So did you have a girl spurt and did that change your relationship with the kitchen?

Wow. What a question. Because I raise boys and I just know that often there's that summer where they just grow and then they just stare. stare in front of the refrigerator and that they'll eat butter, you know, if it's the only thing that's there. I mean, just suddenly you can't. There's just not enough to keep them fed. I would have to do two dinners.

I was a little shrimp until I was junior in high school that summer. I grew a foot. There are stretch marks on my back to this day from that growth crazy. But when I tell you, it wasn't just from the growth spurt. It's amazing. I'm alive. considering what I ate. I would come home from school. My parents are at work. So I, for a couple hours, I have the house to myself. What does that mean? Raid the pantry. Raid the fridge.

What's in there? Cookies. Cake. Candy. But if I can find it, anything. And it was, in a way, a little bit of self-preservation because I knew dinner wasn't going to be that good. Oh, no. I can hear your mother, though, Phil. You're going to ruin your appetite. You don't eat. Why doesn't eat? When I got the food show, my mother was, I don't understand how this happened because when you were little, you didn't need anything. You were such a picky, you didn't eat anything. My father goes, maybe it was the shed. I'm glad they have a sense of humor because... They had a great sense of humor. Saved their marriage more than once. Saved us, too.

It's interesting, but also kind of amazing that they had such a strong sense of humor because both of your parents come from Nazi Germany. Right. So my dad got out after Kristallnacht, that famous night of broken glass where the Nazis went and smashed business and beat people up in the street. And that was like the bell tolling. Your time is up. Right. Most people could not get out of Germany. But my father, his father had some connection where they got some phony papers and they got out. So he's 12 years old and he comes to New York and he doesn't. speak any English at all, but that's his new life is in New York. So he gets out as the Holocaust is, you know, starting. My mother, however, not as lucky. She's in a concentration camp at 10. And obviously survived with her mother, separated from her father, who was involved a little bit in politics too. And he started the restitution program after surviving Auschwitz and the death march to Buchenwald and Buchenwald, the worst of the worst. He survived by, he was a bit of an inventor.

I'm named after him. Philip Auerbach. He created things that could be useful in the camps, not just for the prisoners, but for the guards, lice powder, roach spray, things like this, because they wanted it too. So they kept them alive because he was useful. Anyway, the war's over. My mother and grandmother, they can't get into America. They go to Cuba. My mother said the happiest time of her life was those two years in Cuba. Really? In the mid-40s, pre-castro Cuba. She said it was a paradox. They say, we survive. Come, join us. We're going to America. We have relatives He says, no, my work is, my work is here. Come here.

They're like, we're never going back there. Are you crazy? No, he's doing. So he actually starts the restitution program. You know what that is? Jews to this day, if your business was stolen by the Nazis, the German government sends you a monthly check as reparation. He started that. Wow.

They then, because some of the people in the government, were still Nazis. They made up some charges against him, threw him in jail, and they say he committed suicide in his jail. We've heard this before. But I never met him. My mom, you know, suffered such a loss twice, first being separated from her dad and then kind of the rejection of her dad. So she grew up without a day. How she was so loving, nurturing, sweet, nice, both parents, how they were so supportive and generous and charitable and civically minded. My mom, League of Women Voters, surviving what they survived, I mean, there's a lesson.

Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if the joy is part of the victim. You didn't take this from me. No. And when you go to a celebration, we just had our daughter's wedding here at the house. Every one of these family celebration, when you're together with all your family and friends, it's like, look at us, look what we get to have. Look how lucky we are. It's not, you know, they say living well is the best revenge. Not vengeful. It's just you realize coming from where you come from, that could have been you. I'm 15 years away from the Holocaust, 15 years. That's nothing. Look how lucky. Why do I get to be so lucky? Isn't America fantastic, this land of opportunity that I could, I didn't have to be a tailor or a shop owner

like my dad or a paralegal like my mom? Some countries, you are who you're born into. I got to live the American dream. Phil, did your family talk much about this? Did they talk about their history, or did they wrap that away? My dad didn't talk much about it at all. Not even his war years, because he was a soldier in World War II, didn't talk much about that at all. I found a jacket in the closet.

He had medals. He was like a sharpshooter. He never talked about it. This was the mildest-mannered guy. a tailor with a little kid's clothing store in Rockland County. Mom would bring it up at maybe not the best time. Like I remember when I was 10, I'd ask for a bike for my 10th birthday. The bike that all the kids had, the stingray.

Oh, yeah, with the banana seat. With the banana seat. I remember that. With the three speeds or five speeds, whatever it does. It had speeds. couldn't believe it. And the handlebars that kind of came like this. Love, love, love, love.

Can I have that bike? And you know what she said? You know what I got when I was 10 years old? Uh-oh. Yeah. Uh-oh. Well, you know, a kid, he doesn't care that what you had to live through when you were 10. I'm 10 now. Well, the other kids have, right?

Now, of course, I would scold that kid and say, hey, don't be a brat. Look what she went through to get to this point, to get you here, to have food on the table. Not that it's very good food, but you're eating at all. But when you're 10, you don't know. You just want the bike. You don't want the Holocaust story. Did you get the bike? But I got it.

Okay. You got the bike. That's, you got the bike or the story? Did you get the bike? You got the story. Did you get the bike? I think I got both. Okay.

All right. Well, you know, and you're able to tell that story today and educate people because, you know, history has a way of folding it on itself and we need not forget these things, right? Oh, my goodness. That is so, so right, especially right now. Yeah. I wonder if all that they saw, all that they survived, left an imprint on them that wound up in the kitchen. Maybe they didn't

focus so much on, you know, setting the table and all the fancy parts of food because there are more important things in life. Oh, believe me, we knew that. So when I leave the house and I graduate from college and I graduated a theater degree, which I thought at the time was good for nothing. Now I know it's the study of everything. And it really set me up for a beautiful life. But at the time, professionally, I don't have an agent. I can't get a job acting or in theater or in movies. So I have all these odd jobs in New York and I'm making tiny amounts of money. What I do with that money is such an offense to my parents because what I do is I save it and blow it once a year on my birthday by going to a four-star restaurant in New York. It was $100 in the 80s and had a roommate.

He was also crazy like me. He saved up for his birthday, which was the same weekend. We'd go and we didn't have enough to take dates. So we would split a girl. Oh, what does that mean? A date. Come eat with us. Oh, so you both invited one girl between the two of you?

Exactly. We split a girl. Hmm. Okay. Just to class up there. act just to have just so we're not too we thought of ourselves as losers having dinner here there's beautiful girls with us so we must be something where'd you go eat lutez la gron we oh the big the big stuff la bernadain uh uh uh lec uh uh lecurc or anything with law in the front and and

and four star i read about it in your times four star restaurants There weren't that many per year, maybe three. And you'd read about this and they sounded like a magical fairyland, a vacation in an evening, which is what I still think the great restaurants are, even no matter what the price range is, a vacation for the evening. And we would go and did we get our money's worth? Oh, yeah. It was $100 for the meal, right?

A hundred dollars. My parents heard this. They thought I had a drug happen. They thought I must be selling drugs to go, like a, who goes to this? They certainly never did. And then when I had some money, I convinced them to come with me, took them to Lutess. They were fighting the whole way. This is not for us.

This is not our values. Spending money on this kind of thing is silly. You should save up for when you need it. You're going to eat it and it's gone tomorrow. Why would you, right? The mentality, I understand it. I just wanted them to experience this beautiful thing. That it transcends the food,

that it transcends the place, that you literally are transported to a beautiful experience that you'll remember. Okay. I take them, she said, I remember my mother. She says, okay, I'll have this. It's ridiculous, but okay, like this. This is really, as we're waiting for the food,

this is not my scene, this is not my milieu, she says. She takes a bite when it comes. Now, this happens to be very good. And then they weren't as resistant next time. My father still loved everything. So they had a vacation and an evening. You gave them a vacation and an evening. You know, it's one of the joys of my life.

that I could do that. That I could not only take them that night, but then take them on literal vacations with the family, with us. And then when the kids were born and they got to go, you know, to London and Paris and Italy with their grandparents, that's nice to have. That's the best stuff.

The best stuff. You mentioned Paris. I need to go back in time because I did read a little bit about you. And what I discovered is that you had a trip to Europe early in your life that changed your view of food. And not just your view of food. Okay, you say change your life. I'm saying everything. So I'm 23.

I never, we couldn't afford to go anywhere. Maybe I've been to one of these four-star places before that. But I got a courier flight. D.HL, before they had their own cargo planes, they would send their cargo as a passenger's excess baggage. So you would have a luggage tag

that you would take to one of their locations. Their stuff, you never touched it or saw it, was in the back of the plane as if it was extra luggage. And when you get off the plane, let's say, in Paris, there's a DHL guy there with a signed DHO. He says, you're the courier? Yes, luggage tags.

You get all the luggage tags. Here, now you're free to go. Two weeks later, you're going to do the same trip back to New York. And they do this in different cities around the world. I never knew about this. I didn't either. It was the best kept secret. But my friend, turn me onto it.

He said, you want to do this? Like, hell yeah. You don't get paid, but the flight is free. and the two weeks or your two weeks. So Paris, boom, I go. Maybe I had $200 for the two weeks to spend. There was a friend of a friend that could stay on their couch one night. There was a, what do you call it, hostel?

Could stay there for very little. Yeah, youth hostel, yeah. Yeah, what could I afford? I remember a baguette and some cheese, and I sat in a park in Paris, and I tell everyone, You do that. You're as good as anyone. You're King Louis.

You're like, this is, first of all, best baguette you ever had, best cheese you ever had, best park you ever sat in, best city you ever looked at. What? This is what your money is for. I'm suddenly realized.

Oh, don't go out buying cheap junk that is staticy or, you know, clothes, things like that. I don't care. This, I'm saving up now for this. If the four star once a year was the vacation. This is the actual vacation. This is because you're not just getting the food. You're getting the experience, the otherworldliness, the stuff I learned on that one

trip to Paris and then for the second week I took the train through the Alps to Florence. And if I thought the food in Paris was amazing. Florence blew my mind. The things I learned, I went to buy, I remember in Paris, I needed a shirt because it was a nice restaurant that I was invited to. I got to wear something. I can't wear this. So I go and in the afternoon and all the shops are closed. What's going on? Is it a holiday? No. How long have been closed? Two hours. Two hours? Yeah, every day. Every day. Why? Why would you close them? Peek? retail hours, why would you, I'm from New York? I don't understand this. You know why? Yeah, we want to enjoy the day. Enjoy the day. Go have lunch with my family, maybe take a little nap,

and then I'll come back and do retail again. Exactly right. This is a foreign concept to us. Enjoy the day. The things you pick up, that's why I keep them such a, you know, a preacher for travel. because there's no more mind-expanding thing we could do in life. What you get back is literally a new perspective on your life. Did your work ethic change so you could throw your shoulder against the wheel, so you had more money to travel, so you could fund your new curiosities? I was saving. Yes, I saved. I wasn't, you know, I ate hot dogs and pears.

pizza every night for dinner so that I could save up, first of all, for that one meal, and then so I could have a little. Oh, and I also, I stayed with a roommate in a tiny apartment. Why? Because I could save money. You know, I think maybe a lot of young people, they don't understand that you have to sacrifice a little to get what you want later. Yeah, we live in. I think the whole world suffers from short-term goal thinking. Yes, an immediate gratification. Yes. Right.

So it would never occur to me to buy the $5 coffee every day. Never. Because I don't need it. I'm saving up for something amazing. Yeah. I'm crossing a big thing off my bucket list. I'm traveling to a country I've never been to before in Europe, and I'm doing it with one of my children.

I look forward to that. I'm really excited about it. But what really excites me the most is the chance to live there for a while and do what the locals do, to look out over a balcony and see the city, to enjoy a cup of coffee that's made in a different way than we might make it here in America. Sure, it's great to have coffee in a cafe, but isn't it special when you just make it yourself and maybe you make it in a different way? You're in your robe, you just woke up, you're sipping from your favorite mug, surrounded by the people you love in a new thing. space. And it got me thinking about the magic of feeling home even when you're far away. And that's when I realized something. Why not let someone else do the same thing with your space?

If you happen to be gone, someone else can use your space to make those memories. Hosting on Airbnb isn't just about opening your doors. It's about opening possibilities. It's about the idea that someone might be able to create special memories, little things, that they might enjoy, just like you do when you travel, that you can create those kinds of things in your space for someone else, having dinner in a cozy kitchen, setting the table with plates from your cupboard, after a long day kicking off your shoes, turning on some music, and unwinding in a comfortable, cozy couch, or a favorite chair. Yes, that extra income doesn't hurt, but it might just be more than that. It might be a chance to help someone else start their own adventure

and that is a wonderful thing. That is a beautiful thing. Travel does something special for us. It reminds us how joy exists in so many spaces. It widens our aperture. It makes us curious. It might spark an excitement for something new. And that excitement can live in us long after we return. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. The Thanksgiving table is more than just about meals. It's about creating a holiday story. And every story needs the right ingredients. And when it's Thanksgiving, well, the turkey is the star of the show.

And I'm going to share a story with you that I'm not particularly proud of. And I was a lot younger, a lot newer in the kitchen. I was having a hard time nailing the turkey. And I needed a replacement turkey. and I was frantic to find one. And guess what? Whole Foods market saved the day. With a turkey that was both affordable

and a turkey that I know was raised with care. What a relief. Their turkeys start at just $1.49 a pound, and every single one is raised with no antibiotics ever, and it can be the centerpiece of your holiday story without the worry. And the real magic for me is a supporting cast. The sides, that's where the magic happens. and I lean on Whole Foods 365 brand for all the things that I need.

It's my secret for a flawless, affordable feast, and we're talking organic carrots for that perfect glazed dish. I'm talking about green beans for the casserole or for any other green bean dish that you might want to make because there are so many options for the holiday, from essentials like creamy condensed soups to organic baking spices that when it comes time to baking those delicious desserts makes the entire house smell like one great big hug. And for those moments when guests arrive and you're still in the kitchen, but you need to have something to greet them with that taste delicious, while those 365 frozen appetizers will always do the trick,

the keesh trio or the butterfly shrimp can be lifesavers and people will remember it and they will talk about it for years to come. They feel special and they let you finish up in the kids. kitchen. Enjoy so many ways to save on your Thanksgiving spread at Whole Foods Market. And I hope the holiday is bountiful in all the best ways. We all know that food waste is bad for the planet, but that doesn't mean we're ready to start a compost pile or we're okay with having a smelly fruit fly condo compost pail on the counter. That's why I am so into the mill food recycler. The whole idea is to make keeping food out of the trash as easy as dropping it into the trash. I just add my scraps, and I mean like almost anything.

I mean anything from chicken wing bones to avocado pits to cannolop rinds, and mill runs automatically while I sleep. I can keep filling it for weeks, and it never smells. What really surprises me is the peace of mind. I used to feel guilty every time I tossed out wilted spinach or half-eaten leftovers. Now I just drop them into the bin, open the lid, drop them in, and I know that they're going to a better place. You can use the grounds in your garden or feed them to your chickens, but me, I have mill, get them to small farms for me so farmers can grow more food. You just send those grounds off to farms in little boxes that mill can provide, and they will turn that back into real food for real animals.

That's such a good feeling. It's a full circle moment that I didn't. know that I need it. You can have your own full circle moment. Try Mill, risk-free, and get $75 off at mill.com slash YMK podcast. That's mill.com slash YMK podcast. Can I go back to your parents for a minute? Go ahead. Did they, because I, Max and Helen sound like they're just really wonderful people. Did they, what do they think about your choices? They were very nervous. Because they know the world. This is not, how are you going to support yourself? I mean, it's great if you, if you make it, but what if you don't make it? You should have something to what?

Fall back on. Right. Yes. My father used to say, so you know what kind of work you're out of. Did you, as a fallback? Did you learn about tailoring? Or? I said, I'm not falling back. Okay. That's confidence. They're like, I don't know. I just, it wasn't confidence. It was, I don't know, number one, how to do anything else. Number two, how to be happy at anything else. It was the only thing I loved doing in a world of, you know,

I was kind of picked on as a kid because I was a shrimpy kid for most of adolescents. And I wanted to be funny like my dad was funny. And everyone I saw on TV, I watched TV to a fault. My parents used to say, what are you going to do? Get a job watching television? And then when I got a job writing television, I sent them a big TV with a note on it that said, ha-ha. But I didn't know if I was going to make it enough.

I struggled for many years. I struggled. I had all these odd jobs in New York. I didn't. It wasn't until some friends of mine from college and I wrote something for ourselves to be in. And that's the other lesson I like to impart to young people. They're not waiting for you. You got to literally write your own ticket.

People want to be in show business. How do I do it? Well, first of all, you have something that I didn't have, which is this. So we're born now with a studio in our pocket. Go make something. You can make it and distribute it yourself. And if you're good, they believe me, they come. What did you make?

We made this play. We made this show that became very successful off-Broadway. And at the same time, a friend of mine who was a writer said, let's write a screenplay. I didn't know anything about how to write a movie. He knew the structure. He came to me because he thought I was fun. And it turned out I had the 10,000 hours of television watching and movie watching that kind of made me some kind of expert. So you understood pacing and character development and all those

things that are really important? Inately. Like by osmosis, I got. Character, dialogue, story. He taught me structure. We collaborated. First thing I ever wrote was the screenplay sold it to HBO. It was in 1988. We sold that screenplay. Now, I want you to know, I had $200. in the bank. We sold this screenplay for $70,000. Who! My parents thought what is wrong with America

that this kid. Instead of, oh, this is so wonderful for Phil. Something must be wrong with America. My father danced around the roof. Yeah, he was dancing like, my mother gets on the phone. Why is your father so excited? Because I sold the screenplay. What do you get for something like that? I said, Alan and I are going to split

$70,000. And there was silence. I said, you there? She goes, do you know we've worked our whole lives to have $70,000 in the bank? It wasn't joy for her. It was, what are the values in this world? This kid writes some jokes on a piece of paper, and he's rewarded. He hasn't worked a day in his life and gets, right? But she was happy for you. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

What was the screenplay? It was about a suburban detective in our town where we grew up in New City, New York. It was called Shulman. We wrote it for our favorite actor at the time, Alan Arkin. Oh, I love it. He was perfect. We wrote it for him. And when HBO got the movie, who do you see as the lead?

said Alan Arkin. They said Alan Arkin doesn't open a movie. And so it was dead. It was over. We keep the money, but they're not making it. They don't see, they couldn't figure out who else would do it. They sent us to a meeting, I think, with Jerry Lewis.

They would choose Jerry Lou. That's an interesting. I don't understand. Listen, we could, that's a whole other podcast about how crazy show businesses, but I don't understand it. But I did take the meeting with Jerry Lewis, I'll never forget that. That was crazy. But that screenplay never got made. Most things, you know, never get made. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of money spent on development in Hollywood. They had to, you know, Mel Brooks said, we have to justify our phony baloney jobs, Jim. So how did you develop the concept for everybody loves Raymond? And was it,

and was it always going to be about your parents? I didn't know. When I met Ray, Ray told me about his family. He was a comedian. He was struggling for years like I was. He got on Letterman. And from that one six-minute appearance, Letterman said there should be a show for this Ray Romano fellow.

He had a development deal at CBS. So they said about that's how it works. The comedians people look for a writer to create a show for the comedian. And if you're a writer, you're looking to create a show for comedic talent. So I meet Ray, and he tells me about it.

his family just because this is not his idea for a show. He's just telling me as if I would ask you, tell me about yourself if we're going to work together. Well, I got twin boys and an older daughter and my parents live close by. They're always bothering me. My brother's a police sergeant, he's older than me, he's kind of jealous of me. He lives with them because he's divorced. And he saw an award I won for stand-up comedy. He said, it never ends for Raymond.

Everybody loves Raymond. And I said, well, it doesn't seem like there's anything there we can use. No, I said right there, I said, well, that could be a show. He goes, what do you mean? I got that, listen, you're not an actor. So why don't we stick to something you're, that's familiar to you? And I relate to this, not that I have the same characters in my family, but I get that when you said your parents never leave you alone, yes, that's every.

And you have a brother too. You have a brother too. a brother. And I'm, in that case, I'm the one saying, everybody loves Richard, my younger brother. Just like, okay. So I relate to this. It's very specific. And what I didn't know about the characters of his family, like his parents, I fill in with the characters from my family, because I know how to write them. In fact, in the pilot, I used a verbatim scene that happened to me. I gave my parents the Fruit of the Month Club as a gift. And they reacted. And they reacted. as if I sent them a box of heads from a murderer.

They told me that that was the scene that got us on me. Why? Because it was so specific. And I learned a great lesson. When we write vaguely thinking you want to be relatable to everyone so you don't get, you don't want to make it too much about your specific life, that's actually the way to miss everyone. The more specific you get,

that's where in lies the universal. Because we relate to each other's specific. So even if yours aren't mine, I'm going to relate to something in your life, in your family, because I have a specific thing like that or feel that way about that specific thing. We relate to the feelings of that specificity in others. So we get letters from Sri Lanka.

That's my mother. I don't know your mother in Sri Lanka. I'm writing my mother. It turns out the mom butts in in Sri Lanka the way she butts in America. That's, you know, I'm going to tell you, Phil, in much of our conversation when you're describing your mom and dad, I'm hearing the dialogue from everyone loves Sraibman,

from everybody loves Sraven. I'm hearing that dialogue. It sounds like, okay, am I hearing your story or am I actually hearing a script from the sitcom that we all knew and watched for so many years? And of course, it evolves because you cast these wonderful actors like Peter Boyle and Doris Roberts, and of course they have their own, you know,

strengths that you start writing towards. But I could tell you that 90% of every story in that sitcom that ran for nine years, 90% came from something that happened to me or to Ray or to one of the, other writers. If you worked for me, your job was go home, get in a fight with your spouse, come back in and tell me about it. Did you ever have a moment where your mom saw something that Doris Robert said on television and said, no, that's not me? And how did those conversations

go? There was one time we introduced the wife's parents, Deborah's parents, and we made them a little snooty, a little from Connecticut, a little more high-toned. We thought that would be a good contrast to Peter Boyle and Doris Roberts, right? Or more, let's say, blue collar. Now, it just so happened that I was using as an example loosely my parents' in-laws on my brother's wife's side. those in-laws were a little more, let's say, in the know about hip culture. They lived on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. They were a little more high-toned. And so I used some of their stuff in these parents.

Well, at 9.30, when the show was over one Monday night, my phone rings and it's my mother. And she's saying, are you out of your mind? We have to see these people. I said, ma, your comfort is something I'm willing to sacrifice for the program. Did she find the humor in that? No. I'm not sure I would have. She goes, you have to call that to me.

She says you have to call them now. And did you call them? I said, no, she said, is that how, is that how, because she, that, that mom called my mom and said, is that how you feel about it? Oh, oh, okay. So I didn't want them to feel that. I said, I'm a jerk who's just, you know, grabbing. I have a show to make.

I'm grabbing it straws. I'm grabbing everything I can in life that I observe. Of course, it's an exaggeration. I just used the thing that you're in Connecticut and you went to the Broadway show, the stomp, and you talked about stomp once, which to Peter Boyle and Doris Roberts, if you can imagine, they're like, you watch people hit garbage cans and that's theater, right? So yes, so they got over. But we did it.

The number one thing we made fun of on the show was ourselves. Ray is me and every guy who's an idiot whose wife knows much better about how to do everything better. That's why the show worked for so long. And I think that's why it still works. It went off the year in 2005, right? Was it 2005? Yes, that's right. And why it still works in reruns.

You know, we just shot our 30th anniversary special. When we'll add air? A reunion special. Yeah, it's going to be on November 24th on CBS. Oh, okay. Thank you. We'll make sure that if you're listening, make sure to mark a calendar. Do you think before I let you go.

I want to talk about your current series. Somebody feed Phil. You've been compared to Anthony Bourdain, which is high praise. Listen, you know how I sold the show? How? I'm exactly like Anthony Bordane. if he was afraid of everything. That's literally how you sold the show?

Like, I'm going to go without a sense of adventure, I'm going to go out with trepidation about what I'm about to eat. Exactly right. I'm exactly like him if he was afraid of everything. And in that, you understand what the show is, what the tone of the show is, the type of show that it is.

That's, I guess it's the best line I ever came up with to sell anything because it worked. And the first iteration of the show was on PBS. That's where I sold it first. And now it's on Netflix. Exactly. So the first show was called I'll Have What Phil's Having, and this one is called Somebody Feet Phil. What's the secret to success of that show?

Why do you think people relate to it so much? I feel like I would watch Bordane and go, he's amazing. I'm never doing that. I'm not adventurous like him. I'm not a cool guy like him. I can't stay up all night and drink. If I have half a drink, I'd go to sleep. I'm not getting my chest tattooed by drunken Borneo tribesman pounding painted nails into his chest.

He did that. And then I thought, as I'm saying this to myself, I love the world, obviously, because I love traveling, but I think I would like a hotel with a pillow. You know, I think, and I thought, I think there's people like that. Maybe that will be relatable. And maybe I can help by showing that a scaredy cat can go a baby step out of the comfort zone, but that's where the magic is. And for many of us, just getting off the couch is that step. So I'm here to say, it's so rewarding to go with very little effort.

And I don't even care about, you know, I'm not thinking about the money of it because you can have these life-changing experiences by going to the next town, by ordering a dish in an ethnic restaurant that you never had before. Now your world's a little bigger. I always feel like in these kinds of shows, Anthony Burdains, yours, Rick Steves, which is mainly about travel and not so much about food. But I feel like there's business being done. Like you're actually serving as an ambassador to ask people to be curious about the world. To go to places that are different and talk to people who are different and immerse yourself in cultures that are different. And I don't want to get political necessarily. But I think that those shows are so important right now because we are living in a moment where there are

a lot of people who are invested in our divisions. And in some ways, a show like this is an antidote to that. Thank you. I never, I mean, I happen to agree, but I never saw the show as political until recent events. It shouldn't be political. Why is the hugging of someone from another country suddenly, you know my politics? I'm not advocating for one side of the other. I'm just trying to be a human being. These are human issues, not political issues. Love thy neighbor. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.

That's human stuff. I'm only using food and my stupid sense of humor to get you this real message, that the world will be better if we all could experience a little bit of other people's experiences. That's why I'm here. That's why that, so it's not just a guy eating. First of all, I get bored if that was the whole show, and I'm the guy eating. I don't want to see that. It's only there because food is the great connector.

Yes, it is. And then for me, laughs are the cement. So we share a meal, have a nice time, food's great, that's all nice. But if over that meal we can share a smile or a laugh, now we're friends and we'll eat again. And you'll take whatever you had in that meal that nourished you in some way and it's not just the food, and you carry that forward. And that's a little bit about, that's a little bit of what we try to do here

at your mom's kitchen also. Yes. Is the show when it works is like a window and a mirror. You see something of your own life, but you see another culture, and that's pretty cool. Absolutely.

And we need to celebrate these differences because that's what makes life grand. Do you, would you want to eat the same thing every night? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I'm thrilled that I live in a city, you live in a city, that has everything and everybody.

That's what makes America great. Absolutely. Absolutely. So one of the things that's going to make your community great is this new restaurant that you're opening with our friend, Nancy Silverton. Can you tell me quickly about the diner and the menu and the concept? Yeah. So we're losing diners in America, I feel. Yeah, we are.

And with them, maybe we lose a sense of community, because they are community centers. They're informal community centers. It's a place with a low price point that people from all stripes can come. And, you know, if you become, let's say, a regular, you're seeing the same neighbors, and you're creating neighbors and neighborhoods. If we lose that, maybe we lose the country. So I'm going to solve everything with my dine.

And I got inspired by a diner I went to in Maine called a Palestineer. It was just a 15-seat counter. But the food was everything I know from childhood, from going at diners, elevated by a great chef, by them using the best ingredients and just their knowledge of how to make them well. Not fancy. Just, you know, you ever cut into an egg and it's got that golden orange yolk. Yeah, and it's just, it's kind of jammy on the inside. So imagine if that's the eggs on your bacon and eggs.

Kind of orange because it's a fresh egg. It's not a grocery store egg. And the chicken ate well. And when you get that pale, yellow, watery yolk, you know you're eating the cheapest possible egg, for example. So what if that level of care was in every single ingredient in every single dish? And every single dish was the best of that thing you ever had. This is where I want to live. This is the comfort food of not just my tongue, but my soul.

This is what I, and I think this is so deep ingrained in us, this love of the simplicity of the diner, the burger, the sandwich. Yeah, now you got me, Phil, you got me out. I want a patty melt right now. Nancy Silverton makes the best patty melt you'll ever have. I don't doubt that, because I know she makes a mean grilled cheese, so I can imagine that her patty milk. And we have that on the menu too with a cup of tomato soup. We're trying to make you crazy happy. That's the idea. And in that community.

Okay, I am going to fly across the country. As soon as you open, I am going to have egg cream. That's my contribution to the menu. Sounds great. My parents had a chocolate egg cream every night before. bed. Every night? Like most sophisticated grownups have a little drink before bed, they had a trunklet egg thing. Every night before. Oh, well, that was that absolutely is on the menu. Absolutely. And his, my dad's favorite thing in life was very soft scrambled eggs. He called him fluffy eggs.

Are my eggs fluffy? He would say to my mother. My mother would say, Max, why are you bothering me? I've made you, for 60 years, I'm listening to the opera. Why do you have to bother me when I'm listening to the You don't think I know how to make your eggs right? He goes, are they fluffy or not? She would, like this. On his tombstone, it says, are the eggs fluffy? I read this about you. Does it really, really say on the tombstone?

I swear to you, there's pictures of it online. On the tombstone next to him, it says, I'm listening to the opera. So, yes, it's funny to us, but there's a lesson. in there too. If you can find a simple joy in your life, maybe you'll be happy every day. And they obviously made each other happy. Maybe drove each other crazy every now and then. Of course. But under it was a great sense of humor and undeniable love and connection. Best parents in the world. And so I honored them. And I think more than honored them, I keep them alive for me.

Their pictures are on the walls. Max's fluffy eggs are on the menu. Helen's matzable soup. The one thing she made is on the menu. You know, food, you're literally taking in the love or the spirit or the person or the culture. So it's everything to me. Yeah. Food is its own love language.

It absolutely is. We always ask our guests to share a recipe that means something to them, and we put it on our website, and people will be able to make it in their own kitchens. What would you like to share? I think a simple one, like the egg cream. Okay. How did they prepare their egg cream every single night? Well, you take milk. Let's say you have a tall glass, quarter of the glass milk, maybe an equal point.

heart chocolate syrup, and then seltzer, and you stir it as you pour the seltzer in, and this kind of chemical reaction happens, and you get the foamy head like it would on a beer at the top. And it's literally just a chocolate soda. It has no egg or cream in it. Okay, that's confusing. I think Jewish trick from Brooklyn. That was very inexpensive, but it's delightful. And any special kind of stuff? seltzer that we should reach for? Well, if you can get the seltzer from the like squirt bottle, that's

the best. Yeah. Did your parents use that? You don't want the stuff, you don't want the seltzer that has, or club soda that has salt in it. Because that'll change the flavor. Okay. But you can use milk. If you want a real decadent experience, you can use half and half.

So now you're getting more into, you know, like milkshake territory. Yeah. Yeah. And you start fattening it up like that. But any milk is good, and some people will pour the milk in first, then the seltzer, then stir in the chocolate sauce. What that does is it gives you a white cap of foam on the top for some reason. I don't know why. Okay. But it looks beautiful. Maybe we have to have several of these to experiment with different technique and figure that all out. What do you think my job was in the research phase of the

diner. We did it all. Nancy and I went to places all over L.A. just trying milkshakes one day. Oh, that sounds like a dream. To find what we loved about the best milk shake. That's the kind of reconnaissance that I would be in for. Although, I'm more of a malt person than a milk shake person. For the patty melt and for the burger. We tried it, you know, and she, of course, well before meeting me, she's tried everything in the world anyway. So you're dealing with a, a genius, really a genius, who is now laser-focused on these comfort foods for everybody, not an Italian restaurant, not this is American diner food. Where is it going to be located in L.A.?

Larchmont Boulevard. Okay, perfect, perfect. Just happens to be my neighborhood, and I'm going there for lunch in about 20 minutes. It's a great neighborhood, one of my favorite. Before it opens. Yeah. Stationary stores is there. I have to test the food. I have to go.

I look forward to seeing you there. I hope you come. I would love to take you. I most definitely am going to come. And I will have an egg cream and a patty milk and a side of fries. And if you have some apple pie, I might have that too. That's very possible. I told you at the beginning of- Michelle, I love talking to you. I love talking to you too. I told you at the beginning of this conversation that I knew,

even though we had not met, that this is going to wind up being one of my favorite conversations. And I was right. It is. I have loved talking to you. Thank you, dear. Thank you for being with us. All the best to you. I'll be listening to Naked Lunch. I'll be watching in November when the anniversary show airs, and I'll be seeing you in L.A. Great. Take care. Well, that was fun. I am going to find a patty mail at some point, but before I do, let me tell you that our inbox is always open because we want to hear your stories. We want to hear about your memories. We want to hear about your mama's kitchen. maybe some of your mama's recipes. You can make an audio recording or a video recording and then send that to us at YMK at Higher Ground Productions.com. And if you do that, you might hear your voice on a future episode or see one of your videos on YouTube now that our episodes are populating there.

And if you want to try the egg cream, you can find a how-to set of instructions at our website. That's at your mom's kitchen. And while you're there, take a little time and scroll through the website because on the website, you will find all the recipes from all the guests from all the previous episodes. Again, that's your mama's kitchen.com. I'm so glad you were with us today. Thanks for spending time with us.

Hope you'll come back next week. And until then, be bountiful.