Michelle Obama: The Light Podcast - The Caribbean Kitchen That Nourished Michelle Buteau

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

Actress, comedian and writer Michelle Buteau joins the show to talk about growing up in a lively Caribbean household in New Jersey. She shares how music, dance and food shaped her upbringing and the smells and flavors that took over her childhood kitchen. We also learn about the healing power of humor and how she found the confidence to become a comedian. Plus, she tells us how to make her family’s Jamaican Brown Stew Chicken.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi there, it's Andy Richter and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, The Three Questions with Andy Richter. Each week I invite friends, comedians, actors, and musicians to discuss these three questions. Where do you come from? Where are you going? And what have you learned? New episodes are out every Tuesday with guests like Julie Bowen, Ted Danson, Tig Notaro, Will Arnett, Phoebe Bridgers, and more.

You can also tune in for my weekly Andy Richter call-in show episodes where me and a special guest invite callers to weigh in on topics like dating disasters, bad teachers, and lots more. Listen to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of The Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast.

My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media. Your Mama's Kitchen is brought to you by Rivian. I remember a time where my mom would straighten my hair and cover my freckles and my dad had

a jerry curl and we had to always feel like we had to fit into these spaces, but you can't put a circle in a square. And the time that we were able to be us was when those doors were closed. Hello, hello. Welcome back to Your Mama's Kitchen. This is the place where we explore how we are shaped as adults by the kitchens that we grow up in as kids. All the stuff that happens there, the food, the nourishment, the arguments, the laughter. I'm Michelle Norris. And I'm so excited to introduce you to the person I'm going to talk to today because

I love her work and I know that she is so much fun. I'm talking about Michelle Butoh. You know her from seeing her comedy specials, from seeing her on TV. Her Netflix series, Survival of the Thickest, is inspired by her autobiographical book of essays and it is a truly feel good series. And I mean feel good in a deep down in your soul kind of way. She has created characters who learn and love and celebrate their authentic selves. Watching her on screen and listening to her podcast feels like bomb for the soul. And I think you're going to realize that in this conversation. Michelle, thank you so much for being with us. Oh my God. That was like wedding speech night. I feel from the root to the tutor.

I feel like to butter people up. Yes. Buttered up and ready to go. That is wonderful. Can you talk to my mother-in-law about that? Just kidding. Oh, I can talk to anybody, girl. I'll do a calm app for you. Just, you know, I'll lead you to bed if you want me to. I love it. Oh my goodness. And you have a beautiful name.

So let's go. Yes. Yes. And you're two L's though, right? Yeah. You do have to spell hell in my name. It's just accurate. The accuracy.

Yeah. All right. I'm Michelle with just one L. We always begin our episodes with a very simple question. Tell me about your mama's kitchen, but I'm going to back up a little bit because I get a chance to read about our guests. I feel like I know you because your work is so autobiographical, but I've read a big dossier about you and everything says you're a Jersey girl. Jersey girl through and through. What does that mean to be a Jersey girl?

Ooh, you know, there's only like a handful of states, I think, in America that feel like a nationality. And Jersey is one of them. You know, we talk different, we walk different, you know, everyone's family. And especially family we don't get along with. So you know, Jersey is just one of those places where you understand the heat, you understand the temper, you understand the hoagies and the wah-wah of it all. And so-

The wah-wah. Wah-wah, if you don't know, wah-wah is 0711. Yes. Yes. It's very specific to the Northeast. And yeah, it's just, there's just a culture to Jersey and every part of Jersey, whether it's North Jersey, where Queen Latifah's from, whether it's the Jersey Shore, very popular show. No one's really from the Jersey Shore, but like Wendy Williams, Bruce Springsteen, Central

Jersey, Seymour, South Jersey, the Smith sisters. I'm just naming people, but I'm doing taxes or something. But yeah, I mean, yeah, Jersey people, I feel like stand on business, you know? Okay. All right. Don't step on the sneakers. You know what's happening. These are new kicks.

Don't do it. So fight and step. So was your kitchen growing up a Jersey kitchen? No, I wish it was. I'd go to my friend's house and they would always have like manicotti and like all the lasagnas and garlic breads. And then I also had friends from Afghanistan. So that was a lot of like stewed goat and chicken and yeah, no, my kitchen was a Caribbean kitchen for sure. Where sometimes I just wanted a

banana. I didn't want to plant it. Okay. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now it was a Caribbean kitchen because that's where your family's from. Dad's from Haiti. Yes. Mom's from Jamaica. Oh my gosh. I told you I read the whole dossier. I did my homework. Oh my God. Pass the dossier.

What? Yeah. Dad is from Haiti, mom is from Jamaica. You know, funny enough, sorry, I don't mean for my mom to be catching strays, but my dad is a better cook than my mom. I just think people from Haiti are better at everything. It's such a small island. It's such a gifted island. And you know, by the time, if you're born and raised in Haiti, by the time you're five, you speak at least three or four languages, Grail, French, Spanish, English.

And then you also learn how to move in the world knowing everybody else's stuff. So you're going to do the Haitian food, the Jun Jun and all that stuff. Then you're going to do the Spanish food from the DR. And then you're going to like understand what every other island does. And then like essentially European country. And so my dad was a really good cook, but my mom, the thing she does know how to make. Okay. Yes. a really good cook, but my mom, the thing she does know how to make. Okay. Yes. Good.

So when you said Haitians are better at everything, I just imagined someone from Jamaica, what do they call it? Sucking their gums? Yeah. What's here? Kiss their teeth. What you mean by that? What you mean by that?

Oh my goodness. I mean, like look, Jamaica, obviously. Wonderful. What you mean by that? What you mean by that? Oh my goodness. I mean, like look, Jamaica, obviously wonderful. True. No, but truly because dare I say Jamaica has put the Caribbean on the map. You know? Yeah. Anytime somebody- Yeah, they step large. Anytime somebody, you know, and in charge and yeah, it's a beautiful place to be from the pride, the music, the culture, the jokes, just to find a joke in everything.

And that's really, I feel like how I get my comedy is from, you know, my great grandma, my grandma and their spirit, because no matter how much pain you go through, you have to laugh it off and know you can get to the other side. And so that's kind of really what I grew up with. Yeah. Yeah. My father used to say, sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying. Yeah. It's almost, it's medicinal. Yes.

It keeps you going. So we know that the kitchen has Caribbean flair, maybe it sounds a little bit Caribbean, the spices speak to that. You moved around a little bit when you were young, but can you take me inside the kitchen that you remember most? Yes, yes, of course. And describe it for me. What would I see and smell? Oh my goodness. Okay. So this is before my dad really had high cholesterol. So it was a lot of frying. The smell definitely was all spice. Okay.

Because I don't really get pimento in other people's homes, but that is a smell that really smells like home. There is like a carefully curated pot of chicken that's about to be cut, but it was like a little ax. And there's just limes everywhere. That was my job to cut the limes because we're going to wash the chicken and soak the chicken and lime juice. And there's one of those, I'm forgetting the word, those things that you mash up. Mortar and pestle. Thank you so much. Come on.

Because we, okay, if we ever are in a room together and we play charades, I got you. Because I saw it. I saw it. Perfect. You are perfect for me. You are my interpreter because I am so tired. I haven't slept in six years and I feel like every day is a panic room for me where I'm just like, help me out, help me out. So yeah, there was little stations of scotch bonnet pepper, but don't, if you touch the pepper, you gotta wash your hands otherwise. Don't touch your eyes. Exactly.

And then the spices and then the chicken and it was soaking and then it would be transferred to something else where you let it marinate for a good while. And I just remember my mom treating every piece of chicken equally. It was slow and steady and she wanted to make sure everything got covered and that like, like even bits of the skin and the fat was cut off, but bits of the skin were left on for texture and just every piece was created equally. Which sometimes I find myself not doing when I'm in a rush to make dinner. Do you still soak your chicken in lime? Yeah. Talk to me about that because there's a debate.

This comes up over and over again in the conversations that we have. Some people believe that you shouldn't wash your chicken because you're transferring something. Some people believe that you... Okay. All right. So we know what team you're on. Some people believe that you need to soak it in lime or lemon or vinegar and you have to let it sit for a certain amount of time. Some people soak it in yogurt because it breaks down enzymes. But you do lime. Tell me about the lime and you still do it today, right? I do it today. Sometimes I buy the lime juice. My mom doesn't like that. Sometimes I get vinegar. Sometimes it's apple cider vinegar because I just feel like I could be wrong.

I'm no Doogie Howser or Gordon Ramsay, but it kills the germs. And my dad has pretty much been sick my whole life and just allergic allergic to stuff. You know, he finds joy in every, like he still finds joy within everything. But I just remember thinking like, we have to keep everything clean. And you don't know how they've treated the chicken before it comes to you. So let's not get sick. And, but yeah, my mom's got like little plastic gloves and it's really like she's, she's going to town, like she's going to work. Also, if you're going to clean your meat in your sink, clean your sink. Disinfect your sink afterwards because then those germs are still there and you're putting your dishes in there. Or you have the big giant metal bowl that you only use.

100. I have that bowl. It's very exciting. I get upset when people use that bowl for anything else. Don't do that. Were we raised in the same house? We have some stuff in common here. So wait, let me introduce me to your parents. Let me get to know them a little bit, your mom and your dad, because they sound like they were kind of opposites in some way. And you pulled a little bit from both of them.

Your mom is Marie. Tell me about her and then tell me about your dad. Oh my goodness. This is what in the group therapy is going on. I didn't know. I didn't know. We're thorough here. I'm telling you. My mom is born and raised in Jamaica. Her father is from France. He left France. He escaped the war and went down to

the Caribbean because he loved the Caribbean, dot, dot, dot. But he also named all his kids after kings and queens. And so my mom was born on Bastille Day and her name is Marie Antoinette. This is a great story. This is like a Broadway play. Yes. It's the low rent version of Hamilton. It's off, off, off, way off Broadway. Yeah. And my dad, he's from Kai and he traveled a bunch before he met my mom. And so, you know, he's a real, he's like just a real guiding light of like, he always taught me to never work for a thank you, just leave with her, you're welcome. So, you know, he started, before there was affirmative

action, it was, yes. Okay, you ran out of paper. Tell Papa and close the door, please. I'm working. I love you. Oh, who's that cutie pie? My daughter. I didn't know that school was off today. That's okay. I love that introduction. It was so sweet. And we got to hear your mommy voice.

Oh no, not the mommy voice! We did. Because I know he can go south real quick. Yeah, but we heard the soft mommy voice. You know, you've got to start somewhere. Mm-hmm. Well, before one of your twins walked in, you said something that I think bears repeating, that your father said, don't work for a thank you, but be happy.

Leave without your welcome. Say that one more time, because I want to remember that. Don't work for a thank you, just leave without your welcome. Okay. Yeah. And what did he mean by that? I think he definitely meant, what is that saying about don't ask for permission? I don't know.

A lot of times- Do things on your own terms? Like don't do it because you're expecting affirmation or gratitude? 100%. There's a lot of times where- Okay, that I get. I would do stuff and I'm like, nobody acknowledged this and no one said so and so and no one told me that it was a good job. And he was like, that's not their job. Your job is to do a good job. You know? And so he was, he

was really big on be the best version of yourself. You're only in competition with yourself. Don't look at somebody else's paper. And it lived in his food and his music and his dancing and his parties and his corporate America, you know. Your house sounds like it was a lot of fun. It was. Music, great food, parents who loved each other, parents who adored their only child, Michelle. And it sounds like your house was a little bit different than a lot of the other

houses in the neighborhood, that you were kind of always an outlier. Is that something that you use in your life as an actor and a comedian because you could venture into other worlds and sort of observe and explore other cultures. Yeah, 100%. It was such a gift. I couldn't see it at the time. Couldn't see it at the time. You don't know. Why are my lunches all stinky? Why do I have a fork and everyone has a cool sandwich? How come I can't have a pizza party? These kids don't like jerk chicken. They don't think it's fun.

Oh, that's been the rest of their life trying to chase the jerk chicken though. You know what I mean? Now, you know, like everybody else has a DJ, how come I have steel drums? And now I'm like, this is so cool. This is, you know, after hosting Barbecue Showdown on Netflix, I'm like, oh, these recipes are a way to pass on memories and honor your ancestors and moments through food and music and dance. It's the culture that we can still do. Even if you... A lot of Caribbean Americans, Haitian Americans feel bad that they don't like to be Creole, right? And you know, my dad was from the time of like assimilate, you know, don't tell anybody where

you're from. They don't have to know your business. Just what are my grades doing? You know, what kind of car am I driving? Don't worry about it. Mind your business. And so, yeah, I mean, this is, this is such a joyful time to grow up. I mean, albeit with like the current administration that like we get to really do a deep dive in our culture and be unapologetic for how spicy and loud and fun, you know, we get to whip our fans and do our line dancing unapologetically, you know, we get to take over the Super Bowl halftime show. And if people don't understand it, then it wasn't for them. And so it is, it is so like inspiring and I'm so energized by it because, you know, this is a, I remember a time where my mom would like straighten my hair and cover my

freckles and my dad had a jerry curl and like we had to always feel like we had to fit into these spaces, but you can't put a circle in a square. And the time that we were able to be us was when those doors were closed and the music is loud. And that song is on repeat. My dad, if he liked a song, that whole cassette tape was that one song because it was before you can hit the repeat button on something, right? So you just recorded the song over and over and over again. Yes, yes. So you're going to like the song. And if you don't like it, you're going to end up liking it because it's burning your brain. And yeah, you know, it's funny when I think about my parents in the

kitchen, it's very similar to my husband and I, because you know, my dad was hard, he did the proteins, he did the stews, and then you know, my mom would do the sides for a party. And now my husband and I do the same thing where the proteins are his thing and I call myself a side piece because I'm out here whipping them up and so dancing, while cooking. And your husband is also, you're cross-cultural in your household also because your husband is from Amsterdam. Yeah, he's from Holland, which is also called the Netherlands. I'm like pick a name, nobody

cares, just kidding. But the similarities between, here we are, Dutch people in Haiti are kind of similar in that most people don't know how to speak Creole unless you are from Haiti. Okay. Because I was worried. I would never compare the Netherlands and Haiti. I was like, okay, I'm going to, I'm holding on. I got a point. I got a point.

You're not going to know Creole unless you know Haiti. You're not going to know Dutch unless unless you know Haiti. You're not going to know Dutch unless you know Holland. Okay. Period. So there's also a thing to like them learning a lot of languages because a lot of people don't speak theirs. But when you were growing up, did they speak to you in French or Patois? My dad spoke to me in Creole.

And then my mom was like, her language is delayed. Can we start speaking English? My dad, I was just saying today, my dad, you know, it was always music from other countries that he would travel to. So we grew up listening to all types of music. And he was, he traveled a lot. He was an international auditor, is that correct? Oh my God. Why do you know more about me than my friend? I'm working for my gold star. You got 10 out of 10, honey.

This is 100% of Rotten Tomatoes. Yeah, international auditor, spoke a lot of languages, loved music, and also my love of music I think, is because of him and dance. And yeah, I mean, it was very interesting for them looking back on it now, raising a kid in the 70s and 80s. They definitely wanted me to assimilate and get a piece of the American pie. And so they wanted me to walk, but I was like, oh no, baby, I'm going to start running because this is awesome. They couldn't understand stand up when it first happened. They just couldn't understand. They're like, you're going to have another

job, right? This is a hobby, you know, sort of like knitting, you know? They couldn't understand, but I'm like, I am me because of you. So get on board. Because when I think about everything it takes to pack up and leave everyone and everything you know, and not even know that you could have a better life, just believe you will, is a pretty strong spirit. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Rivian and their fully electric full-sized SUVs and pickups that are designed for all of life's adventures. I feel so lucky because the team at Rivian hooked me up with a Rivian R1S and I love

this car. It's a beautiful seven-seat SUV that's all electric and it's souped up. It has a 360-degree camera to help you back up and park, adaptive cruise control that can speed up, slow down, and brake on its own. It has a tinted panoramic glass roof. But even with all those fancy features, and there are a lot of them, I think my favorite part of the Rivian experience has to be the Rivian travel kitchen. That's right, a travel kitchen. Now it's not surprising that the host of Your Mama's Kitchen would love a cooking attachment that happens to be a kitchen, but let me tell you a little bit about this. It's a two burner induction cooktop that opens almost like

a book. So on one side you have the cooktop and then on the other side you have a food prep surface and a storage space for all your cooking utensils. All you need to power up the stove is electricity so you can take it anywhere and use it anywhere. Camping, barbecues, road trips, tailgating, imagine tailgating with this. It also comes with these adorable lights that hook on to the cooktop and they have these sort of dangling light fixtures that hang across the top, which creates this lovely sort of patio ambiance. It could not be more convenient.

They give you a lovely carrying case. You can easily charge it up at home and it fits perfectly on the back of your Rivian tailgate. With Rivian, you can take your mama's kitchen anywhere. So let's go. Learn more at rivian.com. Hey there, it's Michelle Norris. I'm sure you've heard of that term aging gracefully. That's all good and fine. But I think most of us really want to age healthily. And that's why I want to spend a few minutes talking to you about Alloy, a company that gives women a toolkit designed to help them do just that, age healthily. Alloy recognized that this can be a challenge as women get beyond their 40s an inch closer

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Go to myalloy.com to start your consult with a menopause trained expert today. Use code KITCHEN to get $20 off your first order. Thank you. In my family, May is one long celebration. There's always a niece or a nephew graduating. We have a birthday in May and of course there's May Day and Mother's Day. Mother's Day brunch can be one of the most delicious meals of the year and Whole Foods Market is the best place to source your ingredients. This year we might keep it simple and do a big, beautiful salad full of color and flavor.

Well, everything in the salad can come from Whole Foods Market. I'll use the 365 by Whole Foods Market salad kit as the base, maybe add some ripe strawberries, a little bit of fresh asparagus. Sounds delicious. Maybe we'll do some grilled chicken breasts with a little lemon and dill surrounded by spring veggies. and you should know that Whole Foods Chicken has no antibiotics ever.

I love looking for those yellow low-price signs throughout the store to know I'm getting the best deals on my ingredients. At Whole Foods Market, Mother's Day and May celebrations feel doable, special but not stressful. Save on May celebrations with great everyday prices at Whole Foods Market. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Rivian and their fully electric, full-sized SUVs and pickups that are designed for all of life's adventures. I feel so lucky because the team at Rivian hooked me up with a Rivian R1S. And I love this car. It's a beautiful seven seat SUV that's all electric and it's souped up.

It has a 360 degree camera to help you back up and park adaptive cruise control that can speed up, slow down, and brake on its own. It has a tinted panoramic glass roof. But even with all those fancy features, and there are a lot of them, I think my favorite part of the Rivian experience has to be the Rivian travel kitchen. That's right, a travel kitchen.

Now, it's not surprising that the host of Your Mama's Kitchen would love a cooking attachment that happens to be a kitchen, but let me tell you a little bit about this. It's a two burner induction cooktop that opens almost like a book. So on one side you have the cooktop and then on the other side you have a food prep surface and a storage space for all your cooking utensils. All you need to power up the stove is electricity. So you can take it anywhere and use it anywhere. Camping, barbecues, road trips, tailgating, imagine tailgating with this. It also comes with these adorable lights

that hook onto the cooktop and they have these sort of dangling light fixtures that hang across the top, which creates this lovely sort of patio ambiance. It could not be more convenient. They give you a lovely carrying case. You can easily charge it up at home and it fits perfectly on the back of your Rivian tailgate. With Rivian, you can take your mama's kitchen anywhere.

So let's go. Learn more at rivian.com. Hey, it's Craig Robinson here. And let me tell you, being sick is no joke. But you know what's even tougher? Feeling like you can't take the time to rest and recover because you've got bills to pay or a job to keep. That's why I'm proud to talk about what Theraflu is doing with their Right to Rest and Recovery

campaign. For the past four years, they've been championing the right to paid sick time for everyone. I love that Theraflu is making this a priority. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at theraflu.com slash right to recover. It's interesting when we think about kitchens, they're a little bit different now because we're often on our devices in the kitchen. Maybe there were TVs in the kitchen, but they were small. But now there's like a TV going off and all the time in the kitchen. Oh, it's the 13 inch for the kitchen.

But it used to be that little TV. And because I dove into your life and read so much about you, I did read this story and you don't have to tell the whole thing, but I think it speaks to the closeness of the kitchen. There's a story that you tell in Survival the Thickest, the book, not the TV series, where you're talking about breaking up with a high school boyfriend, which is always traumatic. And because you couldn't just walk outside or walk into your bedroom with a little device that we now all carry in our pockets. You

know, there was one like princess phone on the wall, usually in the kitchen, right? And you're trying to like when we talked to Michelle Obama, she talked about how she would, that long line that she and her brother Craig would take it and try to tiptoe and stretch it all the way and take it into the bathroom so they could have some privacy. So you're trying to have this like, you know, emotional conversation with someone whose relationship is ending, your relationship with them is ending, and your parents are right there. And, you know, and instead of walking away and giving you space, it sounds like they

were listening in. Oh no, they're in it. They're in it. Yeah, they're still in it. Yeah, and now that I'm a parent, I'm like, yeah, get me in there. I mean, I'm not gonna read diaries, because that's crazy. But yeah, they were... And also, you know, my dad is... Was... Trying to help me understand men.

Was he like pantomiming? Say this. No. Speak up. No. Or was he just listening and you were trying to ignore each other. Yeah. But you were both aware of each other.

Yeah. And he also was very asthmatic. And so he always got a little too asthmatic when he was being nosy. You know, it was like a very well timed inhaler moment. And I'm like, okay, I see what's happening here. You know? But I'm glad for it because if I can't talk to my parents, who am I going to talk to?

I'm the only child. Yeah. But I'm imagining he was also trying to say through all of his mental energy, know your worth. Yeah. Know that, you know, whatever happens, it's his loss. Yeah. There will be another day and another person. And he was trying

to probably smother you with all good things, even though he was trying to be, I don't know what he was trying to be, but I imagine as someone who clearly adores you, that he was trying to send you all kinds of good emotional energy. Yeah, it's interesting. I think a lot of Caribbean American kids will understand when I say this. Even though your parents are together, there's always a celebration of body and perhaps a a wondering eye. And so he knew, he knew things. I have lots of uncles. I have lots of nuclear families in my family and I also have a lot of side families. And so, you know, there's no way that we can't talk about it because especially when we're celebrating, we're introducing people that don't look like us, but we're family. Half brothers and sisters and second cousins and such. And so, you know, when that is your base as a family and, you know, my parents decided to have me, they were like,

we're going to have one or two so we can afford everything and they know who their parents are. And we're here. Then he was definitely coming from a place of like, good for you girl, because you know what could happen too if you stayed? So and so and so. And that's just me. That's my voice in my head. My dad doesn't sound like that. But that's another way of saying it things, you know, when someone tells you who they are, believe them. Yes. You know, if they're showing you that they're not the right person, don't force that.

Understand what they're trying to say to you. And then some women in my family would be like, but he's good stock, but his family is nice and he's going to school and so and so. And that's why I put that story in season one of my show, the will she won't she with Mavis and Jacques. And I love the way that you in the show, you have this internal external conversation with yourself like you know, we're hearing you, you literally, literally think out loud. I want to spend some time talking to you about your career.

As an actor, you are a scene stealer. Oh, thank you. No matter how much time you spend on screen, the camera belongs to you when you're there. So in films like Isn't It Romantic and Always Be My Maybe and, you know, the hit comedy Babes, you're always sort of taking the camera. And in the comedies that you do where you're centered in the camera, you're so vulnerable in sharing all aspects of your story. You talked about comedy, and your parents didn't understand it. How

did you find, because comedy is hard. It's a hard road, even harder than acting probably. How did you find your confidence to become a comedian? I think it goes back to what you were saying, to be honest, like having parents with accents from different countries and I am the only child. And not only my Jamaican and Haitian people are already, I felt like I did have to be like the Barack Obama at the lunch table in eighth grade. I had to like teach people about colonialism and that there are light-skinned so-and-so's. And I went to a lot of different schools growing up. And so I really had to figure out how to just lead with a handshake, whether I was

like 14 or 16 or even 10. And I really do love to be joyful. I love to be happy. I'm even going to start laughing when I'm crying because I'm like, this is ridiculous. But it is important to figure feelings but my reset button is always just like, okay, let's get up and get out of this. And that kind of served me not only in the TV news space, but comedy because every show you have to introduce yourself to people, whether they know you or not. You've written about some of this, and I'd also read a lot about you and a lot that's been written about you, and discovered that actually we had something in common, that

you at one point were working in journalism. And you were working the overnight shift in journalism, which is early in my career. I also worked the overnight shift for a local television station. And that takes a, it's a special tribe that's there in the middle of the night, listening to police dispatches and sending people. And you were there at this seminal moment in America. You were working there during 9-11 in New York City. And that was an epiphany for you. Like, if I'm going

to do this, I better do this. Yeah. September 11th, I was sitting in my edit bay, fresh off of an overnight, leaning into the day, trying to, everyone's trying to process what happened. And also we were trying to figure out, we're in Rockefeller Center. Are we next? Uh, a lot of days I don't remember, but I remember almost every second of that day. There was like a time, like three hours that I blacked out sort of, but it was such a long day that I remember everything and it was so crazy. And yeah, I just remember thinking, this is going to, life has changed forever.

This is going to be my life. How am I supposed to edit around the last moment of many people's lives? And I remember my news director was like, we're, stay at your own risk or leave at your own will. And we're also looking into therapy for you guys. And I was like, Oh, I don't need therapy. I'm going to start stand up because a lot of people tell me I'm funny. I don't, I was in my twenties. You know, I was working long days also for free food. I was just out here. But the reason why my coworkers thought I was funny is because an edit bay is a very dark

room and it's a safe space. And so I didn't necessarily have the confidence in every space, but I had it like with my friends. And then these writers became my friends because we were in a very intimate space together being like four seconds of this house fire. Okay, great. And then they're like, you're so funny. I'm like, shut up. And then like, I became more myself in different groups of people until I finally found standup and I had to like really dig down and be myself for stage. Because that's the only thing that kind of worked. Not me acting to be somebody else, you know, this idea of a standup comedian is like, that's so crazy. It has to be you. And so the more I did that, the more I did me, the more I was confident. And so it's so wild because it did take a couple of decades, but I felt healed and was successful

at the same time. So I'm just like, oh, there's no turning back. You can't tell me anything. I'm out here. And anything you do want to tell me, that feels like that's on you, boo boo. So maybe you work on yourself and come to me and then we could talk about it when we're over that hump. Sounds like Jersey came in very- Jersey comes in when I get excited! Yeah. But also Jersey was very useful when you were trying to figure out how to navigate the world of comedy.

Yeah. Yeah. I had to, I mean, I didn't even like to send food back at a restaurant, but you have to fight for your space in comedy. You can show up and you have the sweet spot, you're going to go third. Somebody comes and knocks you over and they're like, oh, we're going to put him in the sweet spot and not you. And then you go during the check spot and you have to be like, that's not fair. Or I didn't say that. I was like, okay, I'll

take it because Will Sylvain is a very hilarious Haitian comedian, told me, once you get good in a room, go to the rooms that are really hard. Push yourself. And then you'll get better. Yes. And so I thought that, and then the same thing in this, the, the spot in a show. Like if nobody wants the check spot and the check spot is when, you know, the club gives you the checks and everyone's paying them, paying their checks and looking at their overpriced drinks and don't want to pay attention to you. And so I'm like, bet I'm going to rise to the challenge and

I'll do the check spot. And I was like, this is very good for me because you should be able to put me anywhere in a show and I'm going to kill. I'm going to be able to be hard to follow. You just taught me something, the check spot. So that's the moment where people are checking their bills and you have to be extra good to pull their attention away from the bill that they got that was maybe more expensive than they expected. And so you have to really kill in order to get them to lift their heads up.

It's kind of like the showtime at the Apollo spot. Like you have to do a comedy set in Port Authority, like the busiest train station. And if you get a chuckle, then you're doing your job. Okay. If you get two laughs, you are right. And if you get everybody on board, it's like, fly little birdie, fly. When did you know that there was no going back? The first time I did it.

Really? The first time I did it. Really? The first time you did it? Well, September 14, 2001, I was like, this is too good. I'm excited about this. Because I wanted to be a journalist and I want to be an entertainment reporter and everyone kept saying I was too big. I was too fat. I was not this.

Nobody knows what I am. I look crazy. I look different. Straighten my hair, get some hair. It was just like, I did not like any job where people had too many opinions about what I look like. So I was like, society already does that. Like, what? And I knew that I would never be enough for that. And that would tear me down. And I was like, comedy is where it's at. I could do what I want to do and say what I want to say and that's like really the first time I think I tickled my creator bone. This is so interesting because September 14th, I mean, we were raw at that moment.

Yeah, we were. As a country, we were and I've actually talked to comedians about that. A lot of them didn't know what to do. Yeah. You know, it was really difficult. The writers rooms were flummoxed. They weren't sure. And that's where you found your stride. That is so interesting. Yeah. Pain. Pain. It was a wild west for comedy too, because it was the time to break out that petty material about the long lines that the

pizza, you know what I mean? Cause we want to hear something different, but also, you know, those want to be daily show correspondent comedians, the onion, like they were coming out here with these jokes too, you know? And not, and this is a very Will Sylvain's, um, get your flowers, Will Sylvain's. He's so funny. Please look him up and follow him. He had this great joke because he's got, you know, he says he doesn't have a Haitian accent. He has a speech impediment. I'm like, boy, shush. But he's got this great

joke where he says, you could never hijack a plane with a Haitian because the terrorists would be like, this is a hijack. And then the Haitian passenger would be like, hijack, I'm Jean. How are you? Where are my peanuts? Oh no. Where are my peanuts and my sporites? And I'm just like, that's what we need. You know?

If it's funny, then it's never too soon. Because you have to heal. Yeah. Well, we talked about that from your parents. Your parents said that they laughed to keep it going. My father said, sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying. I mean, people who come from difficult places use humor to propel themselves forward. And I guess that's what we had to do as a country. And that's certainly what you did in your career. So we began talking about your mama's kitchen. You're a mama now. We've seen that. We've seen you exhibit some mama bear energy in this conversation. You've got two beautiful children, twins, one boy, one

girl. You've been married for a decade? Did I get that right? And I'm not going to try to pronounce your husband's name. Oh, it's very, I say it's easy, but it's like K-H-I-E-S. That's easy. Sure. Sure. I know. It's like lesson six in Dua Lipa, Duolingo, whatever. Rosetta Stone.

I'm like, just the one stone. Yeah. Six year old twins, white girl twins, until they tell me otherwise. Yeah, we're out here. And is your kitchen a lot like the kitchen that you grew up in? Where everybody has a station and there's good music and good smells? There is good music. There are good smells. My husband is the cook. I like to cook. He's a better cook than me. It's kind of annoying, but it's also lovely. Tonight he's going to

make his bolognese sauce, pasta bolognese, and the kids call it Papa Red Sauce. And the last time he made it, Hazelnut said, Papa, this tastes like love. And so they get it. Hazel's more about the kitchen than Otis. We do do- But wait, can we? She says, this tastes like love. Yeah.

If one of my kids said that to me, I would fall on the floor and kick my feet in the air. I mean, that's just that there's no better compliment than that. I know. It's insane. It's, I mean, my heart is so full I could fly. So what does a Tuesday night dinner feel like? I think Tuesday night dinner feels like either a salmon or a branzino. Because I feel like we probably had pizza

or something or pasta over the weekend. Hazel's really curious about it too, you know? And so like, she'll help us in the kitchen, she'll help us prep. We'll have her by the stove, not too close. Otis is not into it at all, but he is into, he's like a little Gordon Ramsay. He'll talk about the flavor. Okay. So they're already developing an elevated palate. And I've heard that your husband is into, we now know, thanks to you, that he's into cooking. I read that he's into craft cocktails and craft coffee. So do you have a coffee station in your kitchen?

Yes, a big one. A big one. It's Italian. I don't remember the name because I don't remember most words, but that's part of his morning routine. And it's really special because the coffees are so delicious. They're the best coffees I've ever had. And they're also made with love. And it really sucks when I have to go out in the world and try to get a coffee. It's never as good. Oh, it's sad. It's never as good. Does he make those little hearts in the foam?

Yes. Really? Okay. That was kind of a joke, but he really does. Yes. Wow. Yes, he does. Yeah. Even when he gives me a glass of water with ice and lemon, the way the lemon is cut and positioned in the cup is so intentional that that I have realized is my love language. You said that you had prided yourself growing up on being the fun house.

Yes, I did. Where did you hear that? Because you said it. You said, actually, you said that several times. So I know it to be true because you've repeated it. Yes. What do you do to make sure that the house that you're growing up in, that you're where you're raising now, Hazel and Otis, is the fun house in the neighborhood that you live in today? I mean, physically, that you have enough space to do whatever you want to do, whether it's

throw a tantrum or play or play by yourself, mess stuff up. There is an area of the house that is not precious. Do what you have to do. There is an area of the house that is, so don't go there. Emotionally, you know, save space. See how you feel. We're into feelings. How does this make you feel? Whether it's good or bad, can you name that feeling? If that feeling was a color, what would it be? Asking the questions that I always ask myself, but nobody asks me.

Also recognizing anxiety and just being loosey goosey. I had what I realize now is anxiety growing up. But to me, it always felt like energy. So whether I was getting in trouble for it or not, like I was productive. And so I can tell when my kids are feeling anxious and I'm just like, all right, let's hit these little spots and do a downward dog or breathe quite quickly, whatever it is. And then it's nice to know that now. And also for my mom, when she's feeling anxious, it's nice to know that now, you know, and also for my mom, when she's feeling anxious, it's nice that we could all come together and have a teachable, breathable

moment because we weren't allowed to before or we didn't have vocabulary or license. And now I'm like, everyone is going to feel safe and fulfilled. The way I run my household is the way I run my TV set. I don't want you to feel depleted. I've had enough of that in local news and other TV and film. I want you to feel rejuvenated and like, I don't want you to feel, God, why do I work in this business? I want you to feel like, oh my God, I can't believe I get to do this. And I want the kids to feel like that when they come home. I can't wait to go home, no matter how old they are.

It saves space. It saves space. They also have to be independent, like get out of here at a certain age. You know what I mean? Get out of here, go live life. We want it to be fun, but you have an exit visa. When you get into adulthood, you have an exit visa. When you get into adulthood, you will fly. It must be such a gift to your mother to see this confident, self-actualized version of you.

Yeah, I think so. I hope so. And what that means for your relationship with her. Yeah. We talk about it a lot because she's still stuck sometimes. If I show her an outfit and she's like, if you like it. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, I was hoping for something more age appropriate. I said, no, I'm not doing that now. But that's mom speak, you know, because I lost my mom last year, but I'm sorry. But you know, their voices are in your head all the time. When you said that I heard her say,

you walk into a room, oh honey, are you wearing that? Yes. You like it? I have it on. I bought it. With shoes and a purse. Yes, I'm wearing it. I was going to wear it out the door. But it's almost like they can't say, I don't want you to wear that.

So they find other ways to gatekeep. Oh, do they? Yeah. And so it's often because they have to learn how to see the world through your eyes. Yes. Not theirs. Exactly. I'm going to use that. I felt that. I'm going to use it. Yeah. And then we have to do the same thing for our kids. We have to let them see the

world through their own eyes and not ours. I have loved talking to you. I knew I would. I knew this was going to be just a yummy conversation. And speaking of yummy, we always want to make sure that we give our listeners something delicious toward the end of the conversation. And so we always ask for a recipe, something that means a lot to you, maybe something that you grew up with in your mama's kitchen, something maybe that you make for your kids. And you shared with us a brown stew chicken recipe. Tell me about brown stew chicken. I remember my grandma, my grandma Mavis, my character is named after in Jamaica, having a big, I don't even know what this

temp, I don't know what this is made out of. Was it clay? It was silk? I don't know. She had a huge pot and an axe in the backyard of her house in Kingston, Rowlandton town. So you would be sent to Kingston in the summers? Yes. Chopping up the chicken, washing it, preparing it, and then she'd brown it and take it out and then do the gravy and stuff and put it back in and just let it sit. And so I have such vivid memories of that and my mom doing the same and just not missing a step, not missing a beat. Every piece of chicken matters and making sure it's all brown properly. And I before I knew how to cook, I'm like, is it burning? What you mean is brown, but it

looks like it's getting to black. And like, I just was like, it's done, it's done. She's like, no, not yet. You know, just like the timing, the rhythm, you know, like even finding the recipe. She was like, that's not how you do it. Like the recipe is like in your, in your mind, right? And everybody has their own version of it. Sort of like telling a story. And so, uh, my mom just made brown stew wings this weekend. And even when she was doing it, I just wanted to be like, is it supposed to go like, like, I couldn't help myself. And she was like, leave me alone before I even said anything or go away from me. And so she browned it. And I was like, I couldn't help myself. And she was like, leave me alone before I even said anything or go away from me. And so she browned it.

And I was like, is she going to ruin my pot? Still all these dumb thoughts. You didn't say that out loud though, did you? No. I said it with my face though. Said it with my face. And, um, and it was delicious. And we ate it down, like no crumbs, like kids in it, husband in it,

me and everybody just loved it. And it was just obviously like a recipe that's in her and then always made with love. And so, you know, when I do it, I always have to tell myself to slow down. This is not hot and fast. Yeah. You need to have two hours. Slow down. This is not hot and fast. Yeah. You need to have two hours. At least. And I also tell myself that in this business, slow down.

You're doing this for the rest of your life. So it's okay. Experience rejection. Have things picked up. Have things take a while to get greenlit. You're doing this for the rest of your life. Slow down. It's fine.

And so that's the parallel. So you brown, you need a big pot, a heavy pot. Chicken thighs are preferable. Just a few tips for people who, because I wrote test all the recipes. This is one that I think is really user friendly as long as you have the time. And I think it will be a real crowd pleaser also. Yes. Yes. Better to use thighs because they just, they stand up, I think a little bit better

than a breast. They can take the heat and they're always moist, especially within the gravy. Chop them up if you can. It's nice to have a little, I don't know what I'm eating moment. I don't know what part of the animal this is. That's also very like Caribbean stewy. And there's brown sugar in this, just to give it a little bit of bottom. Yes.

A little donk. A little donk. Okay. All right. And Scotch bonnet pepper and there, you know, people do need, recipes are interesting because a lot of people cook without the recipe. But for this, I suggest you read the recipe because there are a few things that you're going to want to pay attention to like removing the seeds from the scotch bonnet peppers.

Oh my God. You may think that you can handle the scotch bonnet pepper, but you probably do need to remove the seeds. Oh, okay. Maybe I was raised different. Who's doing the seeds? Hot ones? Mm-hmm.

Okay. Don't do seeds. Don't do seeds. Take the seeds out. You're not a hero. And a little bit of ginger also. Yeah. Yeah. Not ginger powder.

Get fresh ginger. Okay. All right. I'm going to try this one. I look forward to it. I really have loved talking to you, Michelle, with 2Ls. Same. Same. Same.

You're one of one. Yes. I hope our paths cross again at some point and maybe we can figure out how to cook together in a kitchen or cook up something one way or another. I love that. My very best to you and your people. Oh my God. Thank you so much.

What in the love and light is going on? Well, you know, when you make up people, you hold onto them. So let's hold on to each other. Perfect. I love that. Take care. I just love this conversation. It was even better than I expected. And it reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from James Baldwin, the author and very wise man who once said, you have to decide who you are and force the world to deal with you and not its idea of you. That's exactly what Michelle Butoh has been doing all of her life, straddling multiple

worlds in her kitchen, in her childhood home, in her career, in her neighborhood, and now as a mama herself. And through it all, she's a Jersey girl through and through. And whether it's through her comedy or her acting or her work on stage or her podcast, I just love the way that she lives her life out loud. She sets a wonderful example for how to live joyfully and unapologetically. A reminder that our inbox is always open and you can send an audio or a video of yourself. Tell us about your memories, your thoughts about your own mama's kitchen, maybe some

thoughts on some of the episodes you've heard here and you can send that as a voice memo or video recording to ymk at highergroundproductions.com for a chance for your voice to be heard in one of the future episodes or maybe for one of the videos to be used on YouTube or on Instagram. If you want to try making the brown stew chicken, make sure to check out the recipe at your mamaskitchen.com. At the website, you will find all the recipes for all of the episodes and make sure to check that out. This is one that I can't wait to make at home. For everybody else at home, thanks for joining us. Thanks for being with us this week. Make sure to come back next week and the week after that because here at Your Mama's Kitchen, we are always serving up something delicious. Until then, be bountiful.