Middle-aged opinion - Josef Fritzel, & the girl in the basement true crime

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

Today we talk about the case of Josef Fritzel his life, and what some people believe, lead up to the future, where he became a monster is still under term, and whether it’s nature or nurture, you decide for yourself what is there in is this person is a monster?

Are you thinking maybe? No. No? No? No. Definitely not. We'll think about it. Okay. But when I saw it they were like it's motion to text so I was like shut the front door. Give me an example why we use it. Because we do motion things now. We've our tiki-tokis. Yeah but we don't want it following us because we come out of shot and that's the idea isn't it? Yeah but you don't have to have the motion thing on but the ones you know where it's like me then you, me then you just follow it around. Well how will it know? I don't know, built in technology. Like not not in like, mmm, do it, do it. I'm like, do Emily, do Emily.

Oh my goodness. Right, so you need to be comfortable. I'm not comfortable because I know what we're talking about, kind of. Yeah, but comfortable and then if we need to take a break I can just edit it out, can't I? Mm-hmm. Just put my silencer on. Yeah, because I'm so popular and stuff.

My silencer also doesn't work. Sorry, it wasn't a competition babe. No, I'm just telling you, I'm just like, that's why I keep them... Because it's the last payment for Harry's phone, so I'm like, do I invest in another phone? This time do I get insurance? No, there's no point getting insurance. invest in another phone this time do I get insurance? No, there's no point in getting insurance. Really? Because look what happened to my other phone though.

Yeah. So no insurance means it wasn't replaced. It just isn't... it's just never as easy as that. Or are you thinking it's not likely to happen again? Next thing you know it's a hammer. I mean who puts a chair on their phone? Well you know. Me.

It's definitely recorded. It is recorded. Okay. Okay. Right, before we start shall I tell you what the case is because obviously you'll be... so it's Joseph Fritzl and the girl in the basement. Joseph Fritzl. Babe, I'm not going to even say it so it's okay.

Oh okay. You know what you're doing. What am I doing? Well, when we introduce the podcast you tell them what we're doing. Oh yeah, Joseph Fritz Yosef Fritzl. Yosef Fritzl. See you're like I'm not doing it and I'm like I feel like you are. I just hear. I feel like you are doing it. But otherwise you'd be going you took my bit. I told you that would be a true story as well. So, Joseph Fritzl and the girl in the basement. I won't remember that, but go on.

I feel like you will. Joseph Fritzl. Fritzl. There you go. Okay, shall we get into it so you can remember it? Hello everyone and welcome to Middle-aged Opinion. I am your host Ellie and I'm Emily and today we are looking at Joseph Fritzl and the girl in the bathroom.

Perfect. Yes. This is all on Ellie today. Yeah. And I don't, I know very little about this story, probably what most know if not less, but Ellie has deep dived. Yeah, so if you watch us regularly, you know I like Ghost Balls, Paranormal, True Crime. I just like all that. And so when I was, so me and Emily have decided to add a few True Crime podcasts into our mix of things. Now we're a year on. And I think when I was looking for the, for the case to choose, I looked at Rose and Fred

West. I looked at Myra Hindley and Ian Brady. Is it Ian Brady? Yeah. uh Hindley and I've Ian Brady is it Ian Brady? Yeah so I looked at all of those cases and they are fascinating because obviously when it comes to looking at them you're talking about psychopath and all that sort of thing and of course I love all that sort of thing and then I remembered that I'd seen the girl in the basement and normally like I said I was saying to Emily that normally when you watch a horror movie or a true crime case a film that's been made from a true

crime they normally heighten what's happened to make it more engaging like you know Amit you feel horror all these things to make it more entertaining for the public however in this case, because I've watched The Goin' in the Basement probably three, four times. I've never watched it. You're going to have to watch it after this. After you've heard the story, I suggest you watch it because it's not that bad compared to this. And I think that, I mean, it's terrible, don't get me wrong. And I think that it's terrible don't get me wrong and I think that it's fascinating that

this is the first time I've seen a film that is not anywhere as bad compared to it's bad but it like compared to the real the real fucking case but I have tried to follow a timeline and I have tried to put as much information as I can in but you could go on forever so hopefully you follow along and understand. Right, are we ready? Are you comfortable? Do you want to open your drink or anything? Sure. I am gonna promptly stop halfway through and go for a pee or something. I'm like I feel a bit nervous it's like we're just starting again. It's because it's like a big deal and actually this particular I haven't got anything to follow on with it is this is your baby

today. I'm the guinea pig of where we go with this yes and it when I say I have done hours and hours of work on this, I'm talking... She really has invested. Yeah, I'm talking probably 12 hours in total over the evenings and I've written it all up as best I could. But anyway, right, here we go. So yes, also before I start, I want to say that you'll notice that I do not, I don't think I have anywhere, but I do not refer to Joseph Fritzel as dad or father. Maybe a tiny bit in the beginning, but that is it because it made me gag to even say those words.

So I kind of don't do that, but you should be able to follow along with what I've done. Okay, anyway Right Today's case is going to be about Josef Fritzl now known as Mayhoff If I get any names wrong Penalty Asians of the names coming up. I apologize He was born on the 9th of April 1935 in Austria, only child he was an alibi baby to Joseph Sir and Maria Nanning Fritzl. You know what an alibi baby is? Nope. I go on to tell you, I forgot I'd written that anyway his mum gave him the first name of his dad Joseph

and her mother's maiden name Fritzl. Maria was a working mum and raised Joseph on her own. His dad was an alcoholic he was abandoned he abandoned the family when Joseph was four years old never to be seen again. He died in 1944 fighting in World War II. Maria abused Joseph his entire childhood emotionally and physically. Maria was cruel to Joseph beating and rejecting Joseph then showing him love after she had finished torturing him. Once she beat him so badly when he was a child repeatedly kicking him in the head and left him on the floor in the same spot, walking around him as if he wasn't there.

He was often left on his own for long periods of time. He was often filled with anxiety and worry that his mum could turn any minute. Maria only had Josef to prove that she was not infertile after her first marriage broke down when she did not fall pregnant and her husband at the time had affairs with the house staff leaving Maria to raise three illegitimate children. He left taking the three children with him.

She was sure to make sure Joseph knew his only purpose was to prove her fertility. He was a burden to her, someone that she had to look after but didn't want to. Joseph never created a bond with her or never trusted her. Further adding to Joseph's anxiety, Maria was arrested for refusing housing to German Nazi soldiers. She was sent to a concentration camp. Joseph was told that she was dead. He was then sent to live in an orphanage where he was abused by a male staff member for three years. Now I couldn't find out whether that was... How old is he at this point? So the timeline of this situation but it says later so I'm gonna say so he's still before puberty. He's still under a teen. He's still an adult. Yes, as far as I could make out.

So as I just said he was abused by a male staff member. I couldn't clarify whether that was physically, mentally or sexually. I'm not going to speculate. He was abused, end of. Just to add to everything else. The abuse he's already gone through his whole life so far. So nothing new for him, apart from it being male. Exactly. After Maria came home, she was more mentally disturbed. The abuse would become worse, with Joseph sleeping outside and her tying him up for days at a time.

At the end of the war, Austria, where they lived, was controlled by Russia. So it was split into different parts and they were in that particular area. Maria and Josef were starving. There were food shortages until 1950 and even the poorest families would take pity on Josef and give him bread and scraps. He would hate this and feel humiliated but accept the food to survive. The only good thing in Joseph's life was the headteacher who could see how bright he was and encourage him to make the most of his academic talent, giving him the incentive that would be the ticket

out of poverty and his awful home life. He was very talented in mathematics and went to university to get a degree in engineering. His mother was so degrading and controlling, Joseph would have to hide that he was getting his degree and study and he took his classes at night. Joseph also worked in a metal yard to pay his bills. The more he was achieving, the more independent and more resentful he became of his mother. When Joseph was 17, this would be the last time Maria would raise her hand to Joseph. She would

strike him in the face, he would then punch her in the side of the head, knocking her out. Maria now started to become fearful of Joseph, as he had once been of her. Once Joseph's confidence grew, so did something else inside of him, something dark. He became a peeping Tom at the age of 16, 17. He began to peep in the windows of neighbors who were newlyweds and watch them having sex. This excited him, then began to sort out other people who were having sex and undressing. He would also follow young women,

exposing himself sexually for pleasure. Joseph then moved towns to a more prosperous town where work was plenty. His work life would flourish but his personal life was not great. Joseph now 20 had not yet kissed a girl but he then met his wife Rosemary Fritzel. She was 17 and he was 21. They were married within a few months of meeting. They both wanted a big family and Maria to stay home whilst he worked to support the family. They both moved back to his mother's home and lived in the ground floor apartment. Okay, so now we're going into the timeline. So sometimes the information jumps forward, but I got what I could. Yeah?

Right. June 17th, 1957, first daughter Doris was born from the couple Rosemary and Yotif. Three years later, Rosemary Junior was born. Five years after that, Harold, their first son was born. He took an 18 month contract, after Harold was born, he took an 18 month contract in another city with his company. During this time, he had no contact with his family, not by phone or by mail. He enjoyed his time away, visiting many brothels. When he returned home, his children were eight, five, and two

and did not show Joseph any love. He was like a stranger to them. This angered him as he was the one supporting the family. He thought that they owed him his love. He became violent in the same way his mother had been to him. Rosemary, now pregnant with their fourth child. The fourth child was Elizabeth born on the 6th of April 1966. Joseph would pick up with his urges that he had once as a child and would now continue with him peeping in people's windows and exposing himself. He was reported by one victim but was let off with a warning.

He then stepped up by trying to sexually assault a woman and was only cautioned. In 1967 he again changed by stalking a woman, following her, finding out where she lived and now he would break in raping her, holding a knife to her neck telling her that if she screamed he would kill her. Her child was sleeping in a crib next to the bed. He was caught arrested for the crime and would spend 12 months out of 18 months sentenced in prison and Rosemary would stand by him waiting for him to be released from prison. Often visiting him they would never address what he had done in any of the visits or after he was released. Joseph was also suspected in a case of attempted rape

of a 21 year old woman, but charges were never brought due to lack of evidence. After he was released, he would lose his job and life would return to normal. He would start a new job and Rosemary would give birth to twins Joseph Jr and Gabrielle. Two years later Rosemary would give birth to Doris, their seventh and last child. Yeah okay. Joseph would now go into business for himself buying a resort. This had a bar and restaurant restaurant in Upper Austria. Josef would renovate the resort in 1978.

He would add an apartment to his home to rent out and he would construct the basement under his home telling anyone that would ask that it was an air raid shelter. He did all the work himself as he had the skills. He would tell Rosemary that the basement would become his apartment and they, the family, were happy as the less time he spent with the family the happier the family were given his violent temper. The basement was not allowed to be entered by anyone except Joseph. Are you following along? His eldest three children would now leave the home as soon as they were legally able to get away leaving Elizabeth and the three younger siblings. Rosemary's family would often ask her to leave Joseph with the four remaining children, but she would refuse,

distancing herself, already beaten down by years of abuse. She would keep herself occupied by running the resort, her home and caring for the children. Elizabeth was the quiet sibling who gave the younger three the light to shine and quietly watched in the background. Joseph started to watch Elizabeth thinking she was the most like him, quiet and shy. He started to think they had a special connection in a way a lover would and not in the way that a father should. He started to become sexually aroused by her.

He would leave porn under her pillow trying to arouse her. He would then start to sexually assault and rape her at the age of 11. This was in 1977. Telling her no one would believe her, not even the police, he also told her he would kill her and get away with it. Joseph later said, and I quote, it was an itch I could not scratch. He said he just couldn't stop. While these disturbing things were going on, Joseph had another secret. The secret was that his mum was living with them. She had never been more fearful of Joseph, her son, than she was now. With

time, Joseph moved his mum up to the attic, but not before breaking up the windows and keeping her locked up in the attic until she died in 1980. While she was alive and a prisoner, he would tell the neighbours that she had passed away years prior to her death. So no one would know that she was there.

Nobody knows how long she was there but speculation was for at least 20 years. Oh my god! It's a lot. It's a lot. Honestly my head is scrambled from this. Joseph would later say that this was revenge. After his mother's passing, any questions? Just ask me. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh shit girl, fucked up. Like I hope they came for their policing.

Mate. My god. I mean there are some bits and you're just like what the fuck. Anyway right after his mother's passing in 1981 slash 1982, Joseph would now start being beginning further work on the on the basement converting it into a future prison. After Elizabeth finished high school, Joseph enrolled Elizabeth in a two-year program. Not wanting to pay out to hire staff, he would have his family working on the resort for free. In the program, Elizabeth made a very close friend who she confessed everything to that was happening in her family home life,

including the rape her father would subject her to every chance he got. This was very empowering for Elizabeth and she held onto the secret since she was 11 years old. Elizabeth and her friends came up with a plan to run away as a friend also suffered at the hands of her parents. When Elizabeth returned home, freedom would end, but Elizabeth and her friend would keep in touch, running away to Vienna, going to parties, drinking and smoking pot.

Joseph had finished his basement prison by 1983. The basement you would enter via the first room, which was a utility room leading to a workshop then to a living room which connected to a padded room. The living room then led to the bathroom slash kitchen then to bedroom one followed by bedroom two. The whole basement was 35 meters to the whole basement was 35 meters in total which is 380 square feet. The pictures that you'll see that I will import the in a minute will be before the next conversion happened so there was a later extension but I will explain that but not at this point. The utility room and workshop led to the living room quarters behind a

steel door. There was little ventilation, no natural air, no heating so the living quarters were pungent with mildew and mould. The walls which felt wet like slime. He hooked up a few fluorescent lights and a few electrical sockets for appliances. It was dark and gloomy. The day Joseph, not Joseph, Joseph would complete the basement. Rosemary would run to him in a panic saying Elizabeth 16 at the time had run away to Vienna. Joseph then reported her missing to the police with a photo with a caption, have you seen me? released to all the papers.

Elizabeth and her friend were found within the day. Joseph then drove to get her angry. When she came home she would be punished for several weeks. Then things calmed down. Joseph then decided that he would no longer rape her with the fear of her saying something. She was not sexually assaulted for two years. She became more confident realizing he was worried that she would speak out. She would answer back and do as she pleased. Josef realized he was losing control of Elizabeth. These felt like the best two years of her life so far. But on the 28th of August 1984, Elizabeth 18 at the time would go missing again and Joseph would once again report her missing to the police.

He would tell the police and anyone else she was with the wrong crowd. He told everyone that she was into strange things because he believed that she had joined a cult. The truth was two days prior to her disappearance she had told Joseph that she was planning to move in with her big sister Rosemary the following the following weekend and had already moved most of her stuff out why would you tell him? I literally in my head was like why would you do that though? why would you do that though? Yosef could not lose control and he could not bear to lose control.

He could not bear to lose control over Elizabeth. So two days later on the 28th of August, 1984, Joseph asked Elizabeth to help him in the basement with a door that needed to be hung. Remember that nobody other than Joseph had entered the basement as it was forbidden. He asked her to sit at a table. Before she knew what was happening, he placed a cloth with chloroform over her nose and mouth. She passed out later, waking on the bed in the

basement. She couldn't see as there were no lights and she could smell the mould. She knew that she was in trouble straight away. When she lifted her hands she then realised that she was chained to the bed. She could make things out now and could see keys in the door but could not reach them. Jozef then came into the room tightening her chains. She was terrified and Joseph left Elizabeth for 24 hours. Elizabeth could never imagine what was to come. 24 hours later, Joseph would go back to Elizabeth with a bucket for her to relieve herself. He would remove the chains from her hands and put them round her waist. He would tell her, no one can hear you scream

and you'll never get out of here. She knew he was right and she knew that because she was 18, the police would not spend much time looking for her. The police never questioned Joseph or suspected him. After he put the bucket by the bed, he would rape her for the first time in two years. He would then leave, returning later to rape her again. Both rapes would then leave, returning later to rape her again. Both rapes would last hours, as if he was trying to make up for the previous two years. He had to contain his urges out of fear that she would tell.

Now he could do as he pleased with no restraint. He would rape Elizabeth twice a day, every day. The days turned into weeks, then to months. Elizabeth would fight him every time, kicking, scratching, but nothing would deter Joseph from his goal. He would show Elizabeth what the TV was for. It was for them to watch porn. Then he would make Elizabeth act out his favourite scenes. He would use sex toys and he would use whips on her. He would spend hours doing this to Elizabeth. He would say, if I don't do, he would say, if don't do as I say, it will only get worse. He wouldn't look or speak to her during these assaults.

For months after Elizabeth's disappearance, the dinner conversation between Joseph and Rosemary would mainly centre on the whereabouts of their daughter. Joseph would pretend to be worried sick but after one month had passed Joseph forced Elizabeth to write a letter. The letter said that she had left to join a cult and that she was happy. Joseph then drove 100 miles to post it back to his address. He showed the letter to the family and the police who all accepted this. The torture would continue to get control to get to get control of her he would leave her with no clothes no heating no lights he would then remove her chains as this was interfering with his abuse he would then replace the door with a metal door

telling her that it was rigged. Two years would pass and Elizabeth would fall pregnant she felt there was something different about her body after a few Two years would pass and Elizabeth would fall pregnant. She felt there was something different about her body. After a few weeks, Joseph would also realize Elizabeth was pregnant. Joseph was happy and told Elizabeth she should be grateful. In November, 1986, Elizabeth would suffer a miscarriage in the 10th week of pregnancy. Elizabeth would

change forever and completely lost all hope and would be deeply depressed, surrendering to Joseph as she knew it wouldn't be long before she was pregnant again. Right? On the 12th of November 1986 a... right okay so I'll just let me quickly explain. So now I'm adding something else into the timeline that was going on in the area yeah? On the 12th of November 1986 a 17 year old girl would go missing. Then on the 22nd of November 1986 a body was found wrapped in two green tarpaulins. And I want everyone to keep these murders in mind. It was now the 30th of August 1988, so we've jumped two years ahead, yeah? When Elizabeth gave birth to her first child, a girl called Christine. She delivered Christine

on her own with only the knowledge of one book and a pair of scissors in complete darkness. This would change Elizabeth once again, giving her the strength to live for her baby. She would follow routine and try to make Kristin's life as happy as she could. Josef started to think of Elizabeth as his wife. of Elizabeth as his wife. He thinks Elizabeth feels the same way and he even enjoys spending time with her and the baby. He would show Elizabeth pictures of the changing family that lived above, their weddings and their children, her nieces and nephews.

The album would later be found, and the first half was the family upstairs, the second half was the family in the basement. That would be recovered by police and used as evidence in the trial. On the 1st of February, 1990, Elizabeth would give birth to her second child, Stefan, a baby boy, once again on her own and in the dark. On the 29th of August 1992, Elizabeth would give birth

to another daughter, Lisa. At eight months old, Lisa would not stop crying and Elizabeth knew something was wrong, terrified. This would anger Joseph. Joseph then decided to take Elizabeth, placing her in a box on the front steps of his home. There was a note from Elizabeth asking them to take care of Lisa, saying that she couldn't. Joseph would then go to social services explaining the situation and then Rosemary and Joseph would foster Lisa receiving 400 euros a month. Lisa did have a heart problem explaining this explains why she wouldn't stop crying. Her heart was repaired and she was then in good health. The reason that Josef was never flagged for his criminal history was because in Austria law criminal records

are expunged after 15 years. This is how he was able to foster after the 25 year period. Yeah? Does that make sense? So I included that because the law has now been changed because of this. Oh babe I'm not even a little bit through right elizabeth kept asking if she could please uh extend the size of the basement and in 1993 yosef would finally agree so elizabeth and the children would begin the work with their bare hands removing the earth to increase the size from 35 to 55 meters that is 380 to 590 square feet so not a massive amount but from what they were living in it's it's a lot it's more it's more. It's more. Then on the 26th of February, her fourth child, a daughter, Monica, is born. Then in December 1994, when Monica is 10 months old, Monica would be found in a pushchair at the front of the home. would receive a phone call with a woman that sounded like Elizabeth asking her to please

take care of her. It is assumed this was Elizabeth and it was a recording. Rosemary reported the incident to the police expressing astonishment that Elizabeth knew their new ex-directory phone number, but nothing was done. They would also receive an extra 400 euros per calendar month. Elizabeth's oldest two children were constantly sick with cold and epilepsy like symptoms with only aspirin to treat them. With the renovation came hot water and lights, but it was still mouldy and damp. While Lisa and Monica were still young and unable to talk, Joseph would bring the girls down to the basement to see their siblings and spend time with their mum. He would do what he needed during these times, leaving the girls down to the basement to see their siblings and spend time with their mum.

He would do what he needed during these times leaving the girls with their mum. Elizabeth asked him to stop as this was too painful for her and unfair on Kristin and Steppen who were never able to leave the basement. Elizabeth was a great mum, telling her two children all about the world, educating them and playing TV shows like nature programmes. Then Elizabeth would fall pregnant again on the 28th of April, 1996. Elizabeth would give birth to twins Michael and Alexandra. Michael became ill shortly after Elizabeth begging Joseph to take him to the hospital but he would pass away three days later after birth. Yosef would then take his little body and put him in an incinerator. It's hard this one innit?

Alexandra would join her siblings upstairs at 15 months old, discovered in the same way that her two sisters were. Again, another 400 euros received. On the 16th of December, 1992, Elizabeth would give birth to her seventh and final child, Felix. Felix would remain in the basement with her and her siblings, as Joseph said Rosemary would not be able to look

after any more children. Felix would become Joseph's favorite and he would start to think of a plan so he could bring his basement family upstairs with him and his other family. At this time Stefan was 12 and Kirsten 13. Joseph had plans to put his basement family in one of his apartments. He had Elizabeth write a letter saying that she was coming home with her three children. This was meant to happen at the end of 2008 but in March that year Elizabeth's oldest child Kirsten 19 years old at the time now would fall ill with Elizabeth's ongoing concern and constant begging of Joseph to get her some help. Kirsten would become worse and was in and out of consciousness, having seizures repeatedly. On the 19th of April, Elizabeth would help Joseph

carry Kristen upstairs. Elizabeth would go back down to the basement as the boys had never been on their own without Elizabeth. Joseph would then call an ambulance. They examined her and said that she may not live. He had Elizabeth write another note explaining what was wrong with her and her symptoms. Later on, he was asked to go to intensive care where Kirsten was on life support. Kirsten's doctors kept questioning Joseph.

He said that they just did not believe the story. They decided to call the police. Joseph denied any knowledge of knowing anything Elizabeth had dropped her daughter off with a note. The one would believe the story or the letter. The police asked Joseph for a DNA test but he would say that he was too busy. On the 26th of April 2008, 24 years after Elizabeth had first been abducted by Joseph, he released Elizabeth, Stefan and Felix from the basement. He told Rosemary that Elizabeth had finally decided to come home. Later, Joseph and Elizabeth would visit Kirsten at the hospital. They would both be arrested and questioned. Elizabeth would stick to the story Joseph had told her to say

until the police threatened to take her other two children away. She made the police promise that she and her children would never have to see Joseph again. On agreement to the terms Elizabeth began to tell the police the graphic and horrific events of the last 24 years. On agreeing to the terms Elizabeth began to tell the police the graphic and horrific events of the last 24 years. On agreeing to the terms, Elizabeth began to tell the police the graphic and horrific events of the last 24 years. The sexual, physical and mental abuse prior to her imprisonment in 1984. Police would go on to collect Stefan and Felix to reunite them with their mum, but also to get them medical help they desperately needed.

The boys were overwhelmed as they had never been out of the basement their entire lives. Elizabeth would reunite with her three children. After a Joseph's arrest, the other three children, Lisa, Monica and Alexandra, would struggle as they had come to believe Rosemary was their mother. Elizabeth's understanding still found this hard to accept. Police could only spend three hours at a time in the basement due to the mould. It was deemed hazardous to be in there any longer. I just want to add I didn't put it in there but apparently the police that dealt with this all had to receive psychological treatment after by therapists. Police found porn, sex, toys, drugs, small, this is a small sample of things found in the basement. Joseph

said, quote, I am no monster. It's because of me, Kirsten is alive today. I could still have killed them all. Oh you hear that? Yeah. He said it was Elizabeth's fault and he locked her up to save her. He said she seduced him and that the sex was all consensual. Joseph said it was Elizabeth that didn't want to use condoms as she would have felt less. Exactly. He said everything she said was a lie

and he was not guilty. After four days into the trial, you can't even make it up. You can't even fucking make it up mate. After four days into the trial and the hearing Elizabeth's video testimony he then pled guilty to all charges and the murder of Michael. He said he didn't realize and could have a light sentence this was denied. He was sentenced to life. Okay so now I'm going to take you back yeah. If you remember I spoke of two murders of a young lady in the 1980s yeah two young ladies in the 1980s. Well

Joseph was then investigated for these murders, including a murder that happened on the 17th of August, 1966, so before, where Josef was on holiday at the time. However, all three murders could not be proven to Josef due to the lack of evidence. So you can decide for yourself. So after this happened, Joseph saw a psychologist and he was diagnosed with three different

um, sexual disorders, including personality disorder. Okay. So I just, I could have gone into the full psychological thing of what he was diagnosed with, but I thought, let me just get to the point. Right. I'm going to let you, so that really is how I've put the case together. I think you tell me what you've got to say before I go to the aftermath. I'm fucking speechless. Like I don't know this. I knew very very little about you know most of this is not what I knew either babe. I mean initially the initial the start of this I felt they were obviously I'm obviously quite human. Yeah, yeah, of course. And I felt bad for him.

I feel as a child, like, what he went through, fucking hell. That hurt my heart. Yeah. But I'm gonna cry. But he could do that to his own kids. Yeah. So I, right, so so this is so I don't know if I've taken it or not I can't even remember I mean this research just

went on and on and on but it came to a point where I was like is it nurture or is it nature and then I looked up the right so the percentage of people that are abused after being abused as children is a staggering 51% right I didn't even realize it was so high that is a massive amount of people who were abused and then go on to Be abused again, but I used to think that it was one in eight that would then be the abusers I couldn't think that it was one in eight that would then be the abusers. I couldn't find that fact online. So again, it's another debate between psychologists on what you do. I want to feel sorry for him, but I can't because he's so much worse.

No, I feel nothing for him. I feel nothing. I don't even- Life is not even long enough. I don't even think it is nurturer. I think it for him. I feel nothing. I don't even. Life is not even long enough. I don't even think it is nurtured. I think it is nature. I think you are born, personally myself, I think you are born that way.

I think he was evil and I think he continues to be evil and he will always be evil. I just do. That is my personal belief. If you are born, if you are born and you go on to do this sort of thing, you are an evil person and that is all there is to it in my mind. What do you think? I think you're right in some sense that there is that percentage of people that are just that is just their way. That's it. There's no coming away from it. But I also believe that you've always got that choice, especially when you've been in a situation as a younger person or even as an older person, where you've gone, fuck this happened to me, I

am never gonna be like that, I am never gonna put anyone else through that because of me and cause that sort of pain that I went through because of someone, I will never do that to someone else. There is that choice of that is not who I am. I will never do that to somebody else. With Joseph, do I think if he had had a normal childhood with this if triggered, maybe it wouldn't have. What I'm saying is in his brain somewhere is dark. There was definitely a switch, there was definitely a switch at some point and maybe through how you read it, through what you read, maybe that at the age of 16, 17 when he went clap back on his mum and he felt that power and that she cowered to him, something changed. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Maybe. I'm not saying that Joseph, what I think is, if you've got that darkness in you, you've got that in you. Sometimes I think a trigger sets off that darkness. I mean, obviously I hear, my parents didn't grow up in Austria and were obviously not anything to do with Nazis or anything, and the shit that was going on there. But the way my parents grew up, like my dad tells us all sorts of stories where he as

a young kid was out the house all day long, nine times a day, his parents didn't even know if he'd come home or not because that's just the way they were. And that was sort of the same sort of background. Why did he never go, fuck this, I ain't going home to her. Like, I'm just going to go and find somewhere else to be. I will sleep in a box, I will sleep under a car. I will sleep anywhere. Because no child thinks that way. Every child just wants their mum's love. Whatever. I know. I agree with that as well. I agree

with that as well. No, I'm telling you that when you're a child and you're going through something you just want to please them and it doesn't matter what's happening to you, that is your only objective. It's so fucked up. I mean this psychological side of it and I did, I thought do I go more psychologically into it and then I thought no there'll be other cases where we do that but are you happy for me to do the aftermath? I need to know what's happened. So I literally pretty much copy and pasted this aftermath. It's accurate and I wanted to be precise with what's going on and happened with everybody involved. So Judge Hammer, or Hummer, sorry, oh dear, who presided over the trial

started the medical experts reported Elizabeth and her children were in relatively good health. After being taken into care, Elizabeth and all six of her surviving children and her mother were housed in a local clinic, where they were shielded from the outside environment and received medical and psychological treatment. Members of Fritzl's family were offered new identities, but it was emphasised that this was their choice to make. So they didn't have to go to protective custody but if you wanted to because obviously you could imagine the aftermath. Beth Hold Keplin, head of the clinic where Elizabeth and her children were being treated said that Elizabeth and her three children held captive in the cellar required further therapy to help them adjust to natural light after years in

darkness. They also needed children at treatment to help cope with all the extra space that they need and were able to move about in. In May 2008 a handmade poster created by Elizabeth and her children and her mother as the therapy facility was displayed in Austrian town center. This message thanked local people for their support. I'm gonna cry again, hold on. We the whole family would like to take the opportunity to thank all of you for sympathy at this time. They wrote the message, your compassion is helping us greatly to overcome

these difficult times and it showed us that there is also good and honest people here that really do care for us. We hope that soon there will be a time where we can find our way back into a normal life. Kristin was reunited with the family on the 8th of June 2008 where she was awakened from her artificially induced coma. Doctors said that she would make a full recovery. It was, dickhead. It was relief that Elizabeth and her children had been more traumatized. It is revealed that Elizabeth and her children had been more traumatized

than previously fought during captivity. I mean, even I fucking knew that. Kirsten started to tear out her hair in clumps and was reported to have shredded her dresses before stuffing them into the toilet. Stefan could not walk properly because of his height. 1.73 centimeters, 5 feet 8 inches was forced to have stooped in the 168 centimeter height, 5 foot 6 in the cellar. It has also been revealed that normal everyday occurrences such as the dimming of lights or the closing of doors plunge Kirsten and Stefan into anxiety and panic attacks. The other three of Elizabeth's children who were raised by their father were being treated for anger and resentment issues

after the event. In July 2008 it emerged that Elizabeth ordered her mother Rosemary out of the villa. They had been sharing in a secret location set up for them by a psychologist clinic. Elizabeth was upset about Rosemary's passiveness during her upbringing. Lawyer Christopher Harbist, who represents Elizabeth and her family said fortunately everything is going very well. They spend their time answering hundreds of letters from all over the world. Felix, Kristen and Stefan brought up underground with their mother, have learned to swim. In August 2008, all of Elizabeth's children attended a four-day summer camp organised by firefighters with 4,000 other young campers.

The children along with their mother have had day trips including swimming outings where care was taken to keep them out of reach from the paparazzi to protect their privacy. In March 2009, Elizabeth and her children were forced to move out of the family hideaway home and and return to the psychological clinic where medical staff had started trying to heal the family and unite the upstairs and downstairs siblings during the previous years. Elizabeth was reported to be distraught and close to breakdown after a British paparazzi burst into her kitchen and started taking photographs. After the trial, Elizabeth and her six children were moved to an unnamed village in northern Austria where they live in a fortress-like home. All of the children require ongoing

therapy. Factors that traumatise the upstairs children include learning that Fritzl had lied to them about their mother abandoning them, the abuse they had received from him during their childhood and finding out that their siblings had been imprisoned in the cellar downstairs. Children receiving therapy due to their disruptive from normal development, the lack of fresh air and sunshine while held captive and the abuse they and their mother had received from from Yosef when he came to the basement. All the children might have genetic problems common to children born from incest. In March 2009 Elizabeth was said to be a strain from her mother Rosemary who accepted Fritzl's story about Elizabeth joining a cult and did not pursue the matter further.

Elizabeth allowed her three children who grew up in Joseph's household to visit their grandmother regularly. Rosemary lives alone in a small apartment. A March 2010 article in The Independent stated that Elizabeth and her children are recovering remarkably well given the difficult lives they've endured for so long. According to According to Joseph's sister-in-law, Christine Elizabeth enjoys spending her time shopping, taking frequent showers and now driving. She passed her driving test without any difficulty. She has a relationship with her bodyguard, Thomas Wanga, one of her bodyguards who was 23 years younger than Elizabeth, was reported to be ongoing and him becoming a big brother figure to her children.

All of Elizabeth's children have now developed a normal sibling relationship with each other after having trouble dealing with the traumatizing event. The three upstairs children slowly began recognizing Elizabeth as their mother. The children being outdoors playing video games and spending time with their mother and grandmother. Despite the strained relationship, Elizabeth and her mother started visiting each other more and more, and Elizabeth has reportedly forgiven her mother for believing the father's story. Okay, that's them. And now just some other little bits and bobs.

Right, in June 2013, work began to fill in the basement of Joseph's home with concrete. The estate was liquidized and the construction started and would cost 100 000 pounds. I think that says 100 000 not 100 is that 1 million or 100,000? 100,000 euros and would take a week to complete the house will be sold to the open market while most neighbors approve of this proposal some prefer that the property be demolished due to its sordid history in 2015 asylum seekers were offered the house to live in. The house was sold for 160,000 euros in December 2016, with the buyers voicing their intention to convert the building into apartments. In May 2017, Joseph changed his name to Joseph Maycroft, probably due to getting into prison fights with several of his teeth were knocked

out after other inmates set up a fake dating profile with his name and picture. In March 2019, Mark Perry, a British journalist who interviewed Joseph Inesale, said he showed no remorse for his crimes, recalling that he kept saying, just looking to the cellars of other people, you might find other families and girls down there. In April 2019, it was reported Fritzl Health was declining and that he did not want to live anymore. See if the violins down there were in the cellar where they just filled it in. violins down there. In September 2021 a decision was made to release Joseph from a psychiatric determined facility to a regular prison where he will continue to serve his life sentence. This decision was based on the psychiatric report which said that he no longer posted any danger.

In November 2021, the ruling was appealed and overturned and the regional court of Crams was ordered to reconsider the case. In late April 2022, a panel of three judges decided that Joseph could be moved. The decision was based on a supplementary psychiatric report submitted in March. The court ruled that he would remain in psychiatric facility until an appeal to the higher regional court in Vienna was heard. The move to a regular prison would mean that Joseph, who received a life sentence, was eligible for parole in 2023, having served an initial 15 years of his sentence. In January 2024, Fritzl Joseph appealed to Calm's Regional Court for release from prison into a nursing home, but the application was rejected.

On January 25th 2024, the higher regional court approves Joseph's move to a regular prison and reports that he was suffering from dementia within a week. Prosecutors filed a complaint seeking an overturn of the decision in a higher court. In May 2024, the court dismissed the complaint and again ruled that Fritzl should be transferred. That's it. That's the update. So ultimately they're doing well. The family are doing well. He's rotting in prison where he should be. He should actually be in prison where he should be. He should actually

be in solitary confinement, raped daily by anyone that wants to really, but you can't have it all. Go on babe. I mean I feel like he should probably go into normal prison and see how that goes for him. Yeah. Because I don't reckon he'll be coming out alive. He doesn't like being beaten up all the time. Does he not? No, he doesn't. He doesn't like being beaten up all the time no he doesn't he doesn't like it it's twice a day it's really he's still really he story should have been he story should have been I had a really fucking bad childhood look at me

now I'm an engineer I've got seven beautiful kids, blah, blah, blah. But no, that's not his story. And the film babe, the girl in the basement, she has two, is it two or three children in the basement and one goes upstairs? I didn't know she had had seven children. And I just didn't know how bad it all was. It's absolutely, I mean, there's not a lot to be said. I wasn't crying because I was sad.

I'm crying because I'm happy that they are piecing their lives together, and they are piecing their lives together, and that's what made me so emotional. It's great that people are supporting them, but also people need to let them. Right, so now, so know I didn't include in there But I did find an article that said and so where they've been moved now to this town in Austria

Which don't even bother to try and find chair But the whole town and everybody that lives there anybody that comes they're looking for them. They get run out fucking town So everybody that needs looking lives is looking after them. So not only do they have security, they have extra security. Why are you trying to take pictures of that? She just, I mean I'll include a photo of her before she went into the basement, but that is where it should end. Why try and find the kids? Leave the kids. Leave them alone and when they're ready to talk their story, then let them do it. They may never.

They may not ever. But if they want to, then that should be their choice. Not everybody chasing them. Like they have literally lived in confinement. Let them live a life that's a lot more full than what they've done. Just leave them alone. 24 years old before she came out and went to hospital, 24?

No, the girl, 19. Elizabeth was in the basement from 18 until, I can't do the maths, she was 24 years, she was 18 when she went in. Oh, that's where I got the 24. Yeah, so what is that? She was 40. I can't even do the maths.

When did she go in sorry 18 years old she was 18 when she went in and she was in there for 24 yeah so she would have been 18, 19, 20, 202, 42 42 42 before she came out I also didn't include in there that after after halfway through I mean there's so much I didn't include in there that after, after halfway through, I mean there's so much I didn't include babe, halfway through her health started to deteriorate as well. I'm so surprised that actually they weren't as sick, well, or weren't sicker. There's obviously the inbred, which I don't, I want to say that's the epilepsy but because they were in such moldy and poisonous condition I can't even say to you that that's that's what that was because I'm not sure that it was. I mean

those conditions they their eyesight would be bad just everything would be bad but what I like is that so Asthma, eczema. So the siblings that lived upstairs had to deal with anger issues, all these problems, psychological issues because of Fritzl and and then they had to deal with the psychological belief that their grandmother was not their mum and that their... I can't even call him that. This man had done all of this to their real mum and it's just that the whole thing is just so fucked up so please for the love of God leave them to get on with their lives and just wish and pray that their lives are beautiful every day going forward. Fritzl is still alive, he's getting on nightly. And they've got the choice to be better people, they do not have to do any of this based on how he

came about and heaven forbid. I don't think they will, I just think this, I just think that. And hopefully her siblings, there were seven of them, hopefully they are supporting her too. I think that's where we leave it. It's been a really, really... That's 14 children. I know, I know, but you see why I said to you at the beginning I was not going to be referring to him as dad and that because it makes me feel physically sick. I cannot bring myself to call him that from any of those children, I just won't do it. They deserve better than that word because a father, it's really easy to say I'm the dad, a father is something else right, so there there was no way and that's why I referred to him as Joseph and then her as mum, Elizabeth.

So, but that was our first introduction to true crime. I know it's been really heavy. Your first crime? Yeah, it's a really, really heavy case and probably, I am glad I started with it. It won't always be that heavy, but every case that we do about true crime will always come with trauma and devastation because that is what these people are doing to other people so there will always be emotional bits and I just couldn't hold that in however much I would have loved to but anyway I think that's it so thank you for joining us we'd hope that you enjoyed listening to the story and like I say

keep them in your prayers and don't look for them but do your own research by all means I will put the photos there be on our YouTube videos if you do listen to the podcast it's easily googled and you'll be able to see all the pictures of the basement. Not all of it's there, but a lot of the pictures of the basement are there. You've got Elizabeth when she was young and you've got Joseph and Rosemary. There's not really much else of the family. You can find a few here and there, but I just don't see that. It's not necessary. It's not necessary and I will only enter one of Elizabeth. just don't see that it's not necessary and there were I will only enter one of Elizabeth I don't see it necessary to enter that anymore Joseph will be entered more because I think it's important to let the world

know he's a he's a he's a monster and he will burn in hell in my opinion but it will be worse than that for him because he deserved it so anyway on that heavy note thank you for joining us we're gonna we're gonna take a little break yeah because that's why we started that's why I said to you I want to start it's very heavy. Thank you for joining Until next time. Oh also Yeah, oh yeah Also if you did enjoy this and you would like more true crime from us we'd love it if you'd give us a bit of feedback and

Emily can then traumatize me. Yeah, I might try and join in a little bit more rather than being so fucking cops. So just so you know, the reason I did the first troop, because it's a lot of work, and Emily has a full-time job and very young children, whereas I have two grown children, and although I'm busy, I'm not busy compared to Emily, so I just feel like it was fair that she

didn't have to put all those hours in yet but if you prefer us doing this then tough shit till next time