Middle-aged opinion - The tragic case of James Bulger

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

Today we talk about the case of James bulger this comes with massive trigger warnings the sad case of two 10 year-old boys killing an innocent child on the 12th of February 1993Please be advised that this contains trigger warnings#TrueCrime #podcast #Murder

Oh, to the window, to the wall, to the sweat drop down my balls, oh you vicious dolls. Okay, it's on. It's ready. It's ready. We don't generally fill him in about our weeks when we do this. No. Montrossity do we? No. This isn't the one. It's not the one, it's the next one. That's what I mean, that's why I said to you, let's get the glue out of the way and then try and redeem the rest of our days. Rest of our days, they are cute those ones, ain't they? At least they ain't velcro. And they comfy. Do you think the velcro ones are broke? No I know. I took the varnish off my toenail again. Mine's just peeling off. So this, for some reason, when I run, this toenail always digs into this side right, so I keep bleeding. So then I took off the corner and all that, and then sometimes it still does it, other times it does it. It must be the way they sit in the shoe, isn't it?

I had that on this one. Sometimes it digs onto this one. Yeah, because I can't stand long toenails. I can't stand feeling toenails i can't stand feeling feeling it in the shirt chin yeah so i try and keep them really short all the time some people like grumpy i don't like feet anyway and that just adds to it right so today obviously i'm going to add in the pictures later shall Shall I introduce and then go into my tangent? Because I haven't deterred very much Ms from this. I kind of followed the timeline and stuck to facts

and haven't indulged very much, although I'm sure we will as we go, because I like it when you say things during it. But there are more details I could not indulge because there's facts and and gone through every single little thing but I've really tried to kind of just follow a timeline with obviously a few couple of tangents in there because I can't nail pit and call them cretins in writing. Okay okay let's get that closer. You alright? That's why I slipped. Move that closer. Okay hello everyone and welcome to Middle-aged Opinion I'm your host Ellie and I am your host Emily and today we are looking at the

murder of James Bolger. That's correct yeah. The young boy who was taken by two other youths and yeah, unalived on railway tracks right? That's right. That's right. That's the basics that I know of it. Yeah. I mean, at the time, we would have been... 10? Yeah, young. 10 years old.

No, we would have been 9, uh, 1993. Yeah, we would have been 9 years old. I do remember... I remember it on the news. 30. You know, at that age, I wasn't much of a newsie. My mum used to watch it, the news whilst we were getting ready for school. That is why I remember.

And I remember having a conversation asking her, obviously, when the boys got called, what she would do. And she said she wouldn't even speak to me ever again or see me. So I do remember, like that has really stuck. You asked her what she would do if you had done that. Yeah I've always been weird. What? I've always been weird. So didn't have a traditional grow up. Let's put it that way. I probably wouldn't have to ask because I imagine my mum would have gone like if that was you I would have. So I don't think I would ever have to ask my parents that.

I think it's just we were having a conversation and then that is... Yeah, I don't remember ever talking about it. That is what I said. I remember, I remember it on the news but... That's kind of my memory of it. And then obviously as I've got older, I've heard snippets, but when I came across the case, I thought, because obviously we haven't done a true crime in a little while, and when I come across the case, I thought, cause obviously we haven't done a true crime

in a little while. And when I come across the case, I was like, because obviously I do have that memory and it was such a significant thing because we're talking about two 10 year old boys here and us being roughly all the same age does make you think about, oh dear, number one, how did they grow up?

Number two, should this have happened? And number three, what the fuck? What the fuck? Yeah, so, I'm gonna get into it, but as I start, I did, everything feels floppy. That's what she said. Shoft. Right, so I've started it by Robert Thompson

and John Venable's killers. That's what they are. You cannot go on the internet and try and find their new identities. It is a criminal offense to try and find their new identities. It is a criminal offence to try and not look them up as in the sense that you can type in their names but if you do happen to find out their new identities by any means.web whatever however it's done and you post that you do face the penalty of going to prison. So I suggest don't even bother. Obviously as I've been

doing my research and saving pictures ready to put into the podcast, there are pictures of adults on the internet. Are they Robert and John? I have no idea. Did I go further into it? No, because I'm not trying to get arrested, I'm busy that week. On social media, don't try and guess their new identities or anything like that. Again, it's a criminal offence because they are protected with that they're protected, but they are and it is what it is. Somebody did find out one of the identities of one of them and then had a three-year sentence in prison. So I found that as I was doing my research, three years in prison for releasing the identity of, I believe it was John because John obviously, you'll find out, has gone on to commit more offences whereas Robert has not but I do go fully into that as we go along.

So the question I have and what intrigues me into the case and what I've spoken to Would we be having this conversation if these two boys never met and then committed the murder? And you'll understand what I mean as I go along because fate happened that these two came together and committed a murder of an innocent baby boy. Do you know what I mean? And would it have happened had these two have never come together? Would Robert have been a murderer on his own? Would John have been a murderer on his own?

I do believe John is slightly more gone, but what led those two to come together and commit the murder of James is a drop in the ocean and that is what I find most fascinating by the whole thing is that how fate brought them together and then somebody died as a result it's fucked up. Anyway, right. Anything on that? No, get into it. Alright, calm down. Right, just giving you all your theories before we've like given you some stories.

Yeah, it's weird. No, you're not getting any story now. Right, today's story is about James Bolger, a beautiful baby boy whose life was taken in one of the most cruel ways imaginable. He was born on the 16th of March 1990 and died on the 12th of February 1993, so just under the age of three years old. On the 12th of February 1993, two boys who were 10 years old decided to murder an innocent child.

So let's talk about who they were and what could have led up to the horrific crime of two boys that were 10 years old at the time. Robert Thompson was born on the 23rd of August 1982 in Liverpool, the fifth child of seven. His dad had abandoned the family and this had a huge impact on his mum. His mum became very depressed and a heavy drinker and she even tried to commit suicide. It's been, it's believed that the seven children were given the bare minimum of attention. She didn't want to reach out for help as she didn't want social services involved.

Although social services and the police, sometimes for other siblings, would come and get involved. Thompson was used to violence from his older siblings. He, from the age of eight years old, he used to be out with his friends, wandering the streets. He was into crime, robbing, causing nuisance to people. He was described as urban and feral

with antisocial behavior from neighbors and people in the town. Robert Thompson would suck his thumb, baby-like behavior, causing his siblings to bully him even more. This is believed to be a self-soothing method that some children use. This is probably because of the taunting and bullying and the neglect from his mum. Prior to his arrest, there were no crimes that were actually documented by the police. no arrests. The police describe Robert Thompson as mentally older than his years.

John Venables was born on the 13th of August, 1982. His parents were also separated, but he would spend Thursday to Sunday with his mum and the rest of the week with his dad. So his dad was still heavily involved in his life. Venable's mother would treat John really harshly and he was very scared of her. She was highly promiscuous. This was taking a toll on him and his behavior at school showed concerns for the teachers. He

would rock, moan and bang his head and hang himself from coat hooks in the corridor. All of this because two siblings that were older than him had special needs and would receive extra attention from the special needs school that he was in. He didn't like school because he was being bullied but also this can be described as self-soothing, the rocking and everything. He also has a history of being violent and strangling pupils in this school. Both the boys went to the same primary school and did not like

each other. This soon changed because they were both put back a year in the same class and this kind of brought them together and then they could relate to each other and felt the same way because they were the oldest in the class and I'm assuming could relate to the home lives that they were both experiencing, with other pupils calling them stupid and making them feel bad about themselves. They used to play truant together all the time skipping school. They would go to town stealing out of the shops, basically causing havoc. I think this goes to show in the neglect from both of the mothers, as causing havoc. I think this goes to show in the neglect from both of the mothers as it shows that no one was paying attention

to where they were and what they were doing. We're talking about junior school here not high school. Reputations of troublemakers in the town, this was a low-level crime but they are causing problems everywhere. They would jump out scaring people especially old people in the street. This does seem harmless but being jumped out by two children terrorizing you can be quite scary. On the 12th of February 1993 both boys skipped school. They had gone into the shopping centre to shoplift. They had taken sweets, batteries, dolls and a pot of blue paint, like a small one. Like a tester.

Yeah, like the acrylic paints when you're doing words by numbers, very similar to a little tiny pot of that. Basically anything they could. The police believe that on that day they had all intentions to kill a child and a child just the accounts of that day indicate that this was premeditated almost like a power trip. Maybe to reclaim the strength for themselves and show that they weren't weak. One of the boys said that the original plan was to take a child, throw them in a road so they would be hit by a car. CCTV was available and you can see both boys causing havoc, walking around, hanging around and

watching young children. They did try to abduct a three-year-old girl and her two-year-old brother from a shop but the mum clocked what was going on right away and she got her little boy back. Put a stop to the intentions, she didn't think that they wanted to harm the child, but who would think that two 10-year-old boys would? Around 3.40pm, the boys noticed Denise Bolger, James' mum and James go into the butchers. James was the only child of Denise. She had had a daughter who had who was sadly stillborn. James was a rainbow baby. James was a loving little boy, very happy,

incutative, loved Thomas the Tank Engine and was the rainbow baby of the parents. The day he went shopping was the first time he was able to go out without his buggy. This was an exciting day for James. She was making her last stop in the butchers to get some meat and let's go of James's hand to pay for the meat. She turns round and James is no longer there. James's mum carries the guilt of letting go of James's hand and blames herself. Of course she's absolutely not to blame for what happened

to her son. James. CCTV showed the youngster being led away from a Merseyside shopping centre from where he was fatally assaulted in February 1993. It was a case that caused anger and revulsion across Britain. Robert and James managed to get James out of the door quickly, taking him and leaving the shopping centre and walking off with him. This would have taken immense confidence to do something this extreme and malice. The CCTV footage of both boys taking James around 3.42 PM. It took less than two minutes for them to abduct James and for them to leave the whole shopping center. After a couple of seconds,

Denise realizes James has wondered off. She starts to look for him. She starts to run searching for James, she talks to more security and gives them the accounts of what he's wearing and what had led up to him disappearing. They make the announcements and ask people to look out for a two year old boy following his description with what he's wearing either on his own or with somebody that might have found him. They also contact the police and of course then everything starts to unravel from then. He was seen by witnesses crying for his mum as he was being dragged off by two boys.

for his mum as he was being dragged off by two boys. He was obviously very scared. The boys took James a quarter of a mile away from the shopping center. They took James to the canal and started messing about, saying they were gonna push him into the river. This is the first time that they inflicted injuries onto James. They kept asking him to kneel and look into the water,

but James refused, so Robert Thompson picked up James and threw him onto the ground. This resulted in a massive injury on James's forehead, causing him to bleed and have a massive lump. More witnesses saw him crying his eyes out. If you're wondering if any of them intervened the answer is no. When James started screaming Robert and John ran away but they soon came back so now I've put a trigger warning in okay. Then they tell James to come to them and he does

because he's a good boy and he's been brought up to do as he is told. Almost 40 witnesses saw James and Robert, saw James with Robert and John, only a couple did then challenge. The boy said that they were taking him to the police station or that he was a family member, a little brother. They had put his hood up to cover the bruises on his forehead from where they had previously thrown him on the floor. There was one woman who asked another witness with a dog to look after her daughter so she could take James to the police station. The woman with the dog declined and said, my dog doesn't like children. So she let the boys go off again

with James and told them where the police station was. 40 people saw James with these two evil cretins. I can't understand why the adults they were told that they were that they were taking them to the police station and nobody did anything and I don't know if that's because it was the 90s. Do you know what I mean? And then you're looking at two boys and you're thinking okay that's their brother. Do you know what I mean? Whereas now, now, today's world you would definitely... Be just a lot more untrustworthy now. I think even if I saw parents treating a child like that I feel like I would

intervene even then. Do you know what I mean? But that's, you know, we're in a different time and I want to say that is the reason but... So obviously they kept just saying we're going to take him to the police station or he's our younger brother and we have to look after him blah blah blah. And people were just taking their word. Yeah, people were saying that they were being very aggressive and violent towards James. They were pushing him, shoving him and kicking him, punching him and dragging him. And people could see that James was crying. Some people said that they were trying, that he was trying to dig his feet into the floor as to not go with Robin and John.

But one of the boys kicked him in the stomach to keep him moving along with them. Yeah if I was an adult I'd just let that carry on too. It's fucking bizarre to me and I'm not blaming the witnesses but if you see something fucking do- what the fuck mate? If you aren't helping out and stepping in you're part of the problem. I can't imagine. you're part of the problem. I can't imagine as a child back then as we were babe seeing that and not doing anything. No. I would have gone apeshit. No. It's happened. I just, people are just watching it happened. Right, these are all eyewitnesses that did not step in. Hang on one sec, so over 40 people witnessed it, so is this 40 people that

also went to the police and said Jerry saw this? Yes. Shame on them. They all came forward after obviously. Shame on them. I mean, what confused me about the woman that said that she asked that woman to look after her daughter so she could take James to the police station? Why didn't she just take them both with her? That really confused me. Yeah I don't get why you'd ask a stranger. She like tried to make out like she was a hero. Ask a stranger to look after your kid. Right it was very bizarre. To protect another kid. I'm like no. It was very bizarre. To protect another kid. I'm like, no.

No. I mean, now this would have been an ambulance on all of our phones, but back then, it wouldn't have been, it was on the news when the news segments were, and that was kind of it. Sorry. It's so fucking weird to me, babe, that, I don't know.

Okay. Right, let me just see where I'm at. Do you know what would happen these days? Do you know what would happen? It would be just people had their phones out recording it. That's what would be happening. Not me, I'm going to kick him in the fucking head. Right, that's what those people would be doing. It's so weird. Oh, I recorded it. Yeah. I didn't think I'd do anything about it though. Yeah, do you want to step in? Right some of the witnesses said that it looked like that they

were actually playing games and some said that you could hear him calling for his mum. Apparently they stopped at the park and this is when another woman stepped in and gave them directions to the police station and the boys walked off in the other direction. I think also nobody being able to imagine two ten-year-old boys. I'm sure that had a lot to do with it too. I really do, I think it was simply the age of Robert and John that really threw people. But also, surely you're looking at a couple of 10 year olds going, like they don't know what they're doing, let me help. Absolutely.

All 10 year olds, obviously no one was thinking that those 10 year olds are going to look good. No. Equally, they're also 10 year olds, so let me help. Of course. I just can't understand. I cannot get my head round, especially if like someone did see them kick him in the stomach and all that because obviously all this stuff was reported after.

I'm gobsmacked that people allowed that to happen. Even back then, even back then in the 90s it I can't get my head around it babe and you know when I was researching the case a lot of the stuff I was reading I was like it doesn't make any sense you know I mean I'd have too much guilt to come forward after knowing something like that and not doing anything right the boys then take James into the pet shop. The owner of the pet shop is concerned about the way they are behaving with James. The pet shop owner does not even question them, just notes it in their mind. Again, somebody else, they went into a shop, the pet shop owner was like what the fuck and didn't do anything. I

cannot, I cannot even begin to understand witnessing a list because you know he wasn't quite yet free watching two 10 year old boys, brothers or not, hurt a little baby so much and not doing anything. Can't get my head round. Right, the boys now walk for over two and a half miles to train tracks. The police station is meters away from the train station and the train tracks. So now I'm going to give you the full details of what happens and this comes with a massive trigger warning. By now they go down to the train tracks. He has been missing for two hours.

It's now dark and of course the police are looking for him as well as his mum and everybody else. When they get to the train tracks, it's so weird. They're just looking. And they're just looking. No one's doing anything, they're just looking for him. The other thing, so two hours later, some of these people have gone home, turned on the telly and didn't fucking put that together. I've got no words. I've got no words either. Right, this is obviously you know quite dark. Right. John rips the hood off of James and throws it into the bushes. One of the boys then throws the blue paint that they had shoplifted earlier into James's left eye. They kicked him, they stamped on him and

they threw bricks and stones at him. They placed batteries in his mouth and they may have inserted some of these into his anus, although none were found there. I'm assuming they found something that gave them the indication that they had been inserted. Finally the boys dropped a 10 kilogram 22 pound railway fish plate on James. He sustained 10 skull fractures as a result of the striking to his head. Pathologist Alan Williams stated that James suffered so many injuries, 42 in total, that none could be identified as the fatal blow. Robert and John laid James across the railway tracks and waited him down with rubble hoping that a train would hit him and his death would be ruled accidental. After they left the

scene his body was cut in two by a train. James's severed body was discovered by four boys looking for footballs two days later. A forensic pathologist testified that James died before he was struck by the train. Investigation Police suspected that the boys had sexually assaulted James as his shoes, socks, trousers and underpants had all been removed. The pathologist report which was read out in court found that James's foreskin had been forcefully pulled back. When Robert and John were questioned about the aspects of the attack by detectives and a child psychologist, the pair were reluctant to give details. When John was released on parole, his psychotherapist, Susan, reported that visiting

and revisiting the issue with James as a child and now as an adolescent he gives no account of sexual elements to the offence but we know that there was because I read it and it's on the pathologist report there's no other way that any of that could have happened without some sort of sexual element but of course they're ashamed. James' last words to the boys were, I want my mum. Both the boys refused to answer questions about the sexual assault. Thompson was the most angry about being called a pervert. They were shown CCT footage of them walking with James and identified themselves. They did they did admit to killing James.

This interview has been tape recorded. I'm Detective Sergeant Roberts. Now, what's your full name? Robert Thompson. What do they call you, Robert full name? Robert Thompson What do they call you? Robert or Bobby? Robert I think Bobby's a more friendly name, do you agree? Yeah I just want to know a little bit about you now, okay?

What's your hobby then? Skipping school Skipping school is that right? That's not a hobby, that's a profession Bobby, when you do it as well as you. Bobby, I came round to your house this morning, didn't I? Yeah. And what did I say to you? No lesson.

Correct. What for? James. James. What about James? That you said, no was suspicious you'd murdered him. Well, very well remembered. Did you ever see him in the Strand?

He shook his head again. Yeah. Robbie, was that on the day that we're talking about? Was that on this Friday? Friday. Yes. Yeah. We were coming up the escalators, we were coming through the doors that this loose off.

Who was he with? No. Little James. With his mum. With his mum. He was just running around, was he, James? Yeah. Will you tell me exactly what... slowly? Right. When John said, call me in.

And then he grabbed the stand and walked up the stand. How did he come up to John? How did he come up to John? James. No, he was walking down the stand. Who was? James? The baby. Was he?

I told him to take him back. He did what? I told him to take him back. You told him to what? I told him to take him back. I put a blame. No you're not getting all the blame. You're just asking your son. I'm trying to find the truth. Wait a minute Bobby, listen.

You see, little James is following the airplane stage. Right? But on another picture John, it appears it's John had hold of his hand. Yeah, well why are you questioning me and John as well? John is saying to us that he wasn't down at the Strand. I know he was at the Strand, but why should he lie to us by saying that he wasn't in the Strand?

He's scared of saying that he was down in the Strand. Because something happened, didn't it? That's a big one, sir. Yeah? Not by me. We certainly admitted throwing stones and things like that. But he's blaming you for a lot of things. Yeah, but by things. You understand? Well, I want to know the truth right now, the whole truth.

There's other things going on, isn't there? I know the truth. I believe I know the truth. I was there. That's right. You were there. Correct, but I know a lot of things have gone on. Yeah, well, do you know what it was?

I killed them. It wasn't. I never even killed them. I'm gonna end up getting all the blame because I've got blood on me. We're asking you, son, and we want you to tell us the truth at all. Not give the blame to you or anything else.

But it's only the truth that we're yeah can we just go through slowly right what john did with what right you said you got hit with a brick first didn't then what did he do another brick 25iff. He threw another griff. 20, 50, 50. Can I go to go home tonight? We don't know yet, we don't know yet. And I want you to tell Rachel. You don't want to read? Do you want to know any more questions, do I?

I am. Come on now, Bobby. Yeah, why would you want to kill him when I've got a baby of my own? I'm trying to- If I wanted to kill a baby, I'd kill a- I'd kill my own, wouldn't I? Was he able to talk? Yeah, he was. He was.

He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. He was. I wanted to kill a baby, I killed me own, wouldn't I?

Was he able to talk? No James Yeah What did he say to you? I want you He said that

the two of you were in the strand and that you saw the little boy we never, we never, yeah we was but we never saw any kids there, we never saw any kids so you were in Bootle's strand? what's you in Bootle's strand? we never got a kid mum, we never, we never got a kid Mrs. Bennet goes with you, I must ask you that to get angry with her I never got a boy, they never killed a mum

And he said that you took him by the hand and let him out of the strange shops We never He's a liar Calm down, my dear. It's alright, it's alright. Come on, love. God don't do it. God don't do it. I'm telling you, me never. You're too scared. You're probably too scared. A short while ago, as is detailed on your custody record out there,

you had a conversation with your mum and you then requested that myself come into the room. Is that right? Yeah. And what was it you told us? That I called James. So we walked up to him and we were walking around with him and I took his hand. And whose idea was it to walk towards him? Mine. Was it? Then it was Robert's idea to kill him.

And we went outside to check on him. What for? Don't know, he said let's throw him in the water. He was persuading him, he said kneel down and let's look at the water and all that but he wouldn't. Because when we wouldn't get him down, Robert picked him up and threw him on the floor and that's where he got his bump on his head. What were you gonna, why were we taking you onto a long village? Don't know, we don't know what to do. You walk along, where?

To the strange rock. I'm so hungry, I'm so, I'm so tired of throwing bricks at them. Why are you getting thrown any bricks? Cause Robby said pick a your hop and throw it and you threw it on the floor. What was Robert saying while he was doing all this? He was saying stay down, you stupid dick and get over it. Why did he want him to stay down? I don't know. He wanted him dead, probably.

Where did the stones and the bar hit him? In the head. And you say the bar knocked him out? Yeah. And it really shot. What happened then? No, it was just lying there. To finish it up I couldn't speak anymore. Eventually both the boys then go to the street anymore. them in the shop grabbing hold of him super angry that he hadn't come home. She had reported him missing to the police. She dragged both the boys out of the shop and tells Robert Thompson to go home. She started to hit both the boys. Robert Thompson runs away. She goes to the police station and tells them that she has found her son.

She was deeply upset about him missing this time because she has seen that there's a little boy missing on the news and was worried about her son's safety. You can't fucking make it up babe. No but you also gotta think that if there is a child missing and your child is now missing is that person who's doing it now taking your child as well. Of course. But bitch didn't care. Bitch didn't care. This is like the first time she's shown any.

But yeah, still beat the shit out of him. Yeah, but she hasn't shown any signs of caring about her son. And I'm not blaming her for the monster that her child is. I'm just saying, bitch do better. Right. At least she was looking for him. No fucking, it's on her, mate. Right. Robert Thompson's mum then complains to the police

that John's mum had been hitting Robert. I just, you can't make it up. The police had been gathering information all day at this point when from what they can figure out on the CCTV James has been taken by two boys that are around the age of 15, 16, because remember in the nights it was proper grainy. So it's not like now where you get a clearer picture. This led to some relief for Denise, James's mum and police thinking that two teenage boys are never going to hurt a little boy. The boys that found James thought that it was a broken doll. To this day they are all suffering from PTSD and some did go on to have drug and alcohol problems

because of what happened that day. What they saw. Yeah. When the police arrived at the scene they were gobsmacked by the whole situation and everybody else in the UK. Robert admitted, hold on, Robert Thompson attended the murder site and laid flowers with a neighbour. The composure that he must have had after doing such a thing at the age of 10 is baffling. It isn't long before Robert and John are arrested and this information comes from someone telling them that they were not at school that day. They did forensic testing on their trainers clothes and blood was found that belonged to James.

The paint on both of the boys clothes from James as well. Everybody is in shock that two 10-year-old boys have taken a baby to kill him. And Robert and Thompson asked the police after they were arrested if James his abduction and murder and the attempted abduction of the little brother and sister from earlier on. What did I say? Oh 1993. Yeah so they were then charged with the attempted abduction remember earlier in the story. They were held in custody not to mention the whole of the UK was trying to get to them. I've watched some of the footage, I've all had it. They both pled not guilty and both the lawyers were blaming each of the children.

So Roberts were blaming John and Johns were blaming Robert. And then when certain things of the case like who did the skull fractures, whatever, Robert would then say it was John and vice versa. No accountability whatsoever. They just kept blaming each other for the worst. But you know, one of them was like, oh, I only held his hand and walked with him and then I'd tell John not to do it or vice versa and it's just like bitch please. They both admitted to it in the end but still continued to put the worst of it on each other. Robert Thompson said that if he wanted to

kill a little boy he would have killed his own little brother. Wow that's a statement. Robert Thompson through the whole thing including the trial was very composed John was not he was a mess John and John then asked the police to apologize to James's mom The fuck I mean little too late there mate too late dot-co dot-uk Both the boys so after... But at least he has managed to show some remorse whereas actually the other one is not showing anything. Yeah wait till later on. I don't know what you're talking about. But um so what I find interesting as well, so when this happened, because of the severity, and I think the law used to be you couldn't be tried as an adult until you were 13 years

old, but because of obviously what had happened, the judge then decided they were going to be trialled as adults but he released both of their names and their picture into the press and then he was like right now they're getting new identities which is so fucking weird. I think maybe he felt he probably fucked up there. Maybe. I think, in the lore of, because they were minors, maybe they shouldn't have been. Yeah. But absolutely everything else to be released.

Yeah. Right. In another breath, why should they be protected? I don't personally think they should, or should have, because I think, I mean we're going to it later. But it's not just them is it? I mean it can be adults as well. Well I'm confused by our law system. It is weird. Right both the boys were now given new identities and both of their families, their entirety of their family or anyone that knew that they were family were given whole new identities. Because now the public are starting to go for the families because they're like, see

what you fucking raised, you raised a fucking monster. Again, putting in the nurture folk versus nature. Do you know what I mean? Are the parents to blame for what happened to James? No. No. No, because one of them's got six other siblings right? Yeah. No, yeah, no. Regardless of, no absolutely not not to blame. Did they help? No. But they're not to blame. But yeah so now both the families and the boys are now, they've all got new identities. It's down. Right, yeah, so basically, literally, everyone in the UK is like, I mean,

there is footage of the boys going into court and people are going for the fair, like the vans that they're in, they're being fucking pinned down, the whole, and I get it. Yeah, everyone is angry. Yeah. When it goes to trial, they both were tried as adults in court as I have said, but

now they have to sit in the docks. So the docks had to be altered and raised because they were both so little. They would serve a minimum of eight years Meaning that they would be released at 18. So then after that happened again The public was like the public was like what the fuck so, of course Like we didn't really have it back then but a petition was made and you know It was getting on 300,000 and people were fucking in uproar. What are you talking about eight years? They've killed a little boy in one of the cruelest ways possible. Isn't it absolutely disgusting and unhumane?

The fuck? So then a judge raised it to 10 years again, still not long enough, but then the Supreme Court or whoever it is here in the UK then stepped in and went, you can't do that, and dropped it back down to eight years. So you can imagine this whole time Denise and her husband are backwards and forwards backwards and forwards trying to say their case and it's just being dismissed like it ain't no big fucking deal. So I mean I will do my best to add what I

can and again we was risky because obviously I've got make sure it's not copyright but honestly like this poor mum and dad's right John Vannevold did not do not do did so much better the minute the minute they were arrested and was sentenced and then they went into this holiday unit that's what I'm gonna call it because they that's essentially what they are yeah you know best best week ever right when they said they did do better in life so they had more security there was adults there all the time watching out what they were doing do you know I mean they were yeah, they were allowed to go on day trips with their dads and mums. They were buying designer clothes, they had Playstations, whatever was out

at the time, you know, the latest shit all in their rooms, you name it, they fucking had it. So, you know, best life ever. Yeah, all the things that mum couldn't afford by herself, she now had and then she got to go on her day-tackle. And of course no neglect here either. There is full, there's three meals a day, someone's with you all the time, you can always go to someone. And I'm not saying that children that commit crimes don't deserve rehabilitation and whatever

because you know, listen, although I say it's not the parents fault it is also the parents fault for everything that they were going through and it can shape you we've talked about this many times didn't we babe but to not face any sort of consequences at all doesn't feel right with me. No I agree they there should have been something heavier put in place for them to understand the severity of what they've done. Exactly exactly I mean one of them was off on to football stadiums and stuff. Sweet which they probably would never have done. I mean mine used to before my husband straight mine used to do all of that and obviously

You know haven't pretty much things but my point is there are thousands hundreds and thousands of children here in the UK with parents struggling working full-time and they haven't had quite as a luxurious life as these two cretins and They kill somebody Yeah, so it is kind of weird. What they should have been done is it should have been more like prison, youth prison, with intensive psychotherapy, counselling, etc. etc. But it's not. So I could go on all day about that.

So obviously I'm going to try and separate them. John's doing better now but apparently he also suffers from PTSD. Good. So I don't believe he does. Well I hope he does. I hope he does come back to being in. The PTSD is being caught in my opinion. That would be like obviously because PTSD for those that you know don't know is if you think about

when you're in a near crash and you get that heightened anxiety your mind has to be in that state for a long time to develop PTSD. It's not just for war people it's being in a heightened state of anxiety for a long time and it affects your brain and then you develop PTSD. That's what it is for those of you that don't know. His heightened state of anxiety and all this came from his arrest. Not when he killed him, not when he was walking around like nothing had happened, it was from the arrest, the call and that sort of thing. And that is my opinion.

Yeah, possibly. Because actually the attacks on him would have been very scary. Whereas when he was in control of what he was doing, no problem. He was all right. Video shot, this, that and the other. Yeah. And that is why I truly believe the anxiety has come from being arrested in the trial and not so much to do I think that that is part of part because obviously being released after eight years is conditional

So you have to show Remorse I understand what I did I accept the consequences Do you see what I mean? because I think that to kill a little boy even at the age of 10 there has to be something incredibly wrong with you but anyway, right. He also went on to talk to his counselor and said that he could smell James on him all the time like a baby smell on him all the time. He thought that James was following him round and apparently he would also suffer from flashbacks and nightmares. He said that he felt so guilty because he thought that James liked him.

I don't know what to take from all that other than I have no sympathy not even the tiniest little bit. I did read another thing which I haven't included but I'll say now that he said that in the nightmares he dreamt that he was giving birth to James. So again this screams there's something wrong with this boy. there's something wrong with this boy. Okay Robert, Robert is the one that made the most progress on the program and massively changed his life around. I know I'm so happy for him. He passed all of his GCSEs, took his A levels, got them and he to this day the last information on Robert Thompson is that he went on, he's in the same sex relationship and he lives with his partner wherever they live. And that literally is the last report on Robert Thompson.

So he's come across the most stern and whatever. Is that because of all the abuse and everything at home that he's just completely shut down and that he has gone on to not cause any other problems, not cause harm to anyone? There are no more interactions with the police as such. He'd be on a lifelong bail, but there is nothing else ever been reported on him.

So he's turned his life around. ever been reported on him so he's turned his life around. Now we're gonna go back to John. He has since been arrested. Hold on. Yeah go on. Again not that he doesn't deserve a partner. He doesn't deserve a partner. How could someone be? They probably don't even know. Because what name is not Robert Thompson? How do we know that he even told his partner? By the way, when I was 10 years old, I killed the two of your report.

Do you remember that report? That was me. I'm guessing no. Could you imagine finding that out about your partner? No, your feet are freezing. Sorry. No. Could you imagine finding out about your partner? No. Your feet are freezing. Sorry. No. Sorry.

No, because I couldn't... I couldn't even stomach it. I couldn't even stomach it. Could you be sleeping with one eye open, right? I don't know if he's gone on to have kids. I don't even know. I hope not. I mean I wanna say, surely that wouldn't be allowed but...

I've heard worse mate, we're here in the UK. I mean, that's gonna fall off. What is? Your little clip. It's going. Yeah, maybe that's why it's so wonky. I am. No, I'm a bit.

No, they wouldn't let him adopt no fucking way no way don't tell me that's in there because I'm gonna be mad at you listen right I will be mad at you the thing is don't tell me shit like that he has a new identity they wouldn't even know that he is Robert Thompson. Do you see what I'm saying? No, no. Something like that, they must be allowed to go deeper. Absolutely not. No. Yes, I'm not having that.

I cannot, I cannot, I cannot. I'm telling you, no way. They have new identities. There is nothing about his identity at any point. But I appreciate notes in like a place of work, unless it's working with children where you have to do a... No, I'm not having that. It won't be...

Robert Thompson... I'm not having that. ...did not exist. I'm not having that. That's not even okay. That's not even existed. But it's the reality of here in the UK of war. Can you let us know?

Yes. I feel like... I'm certain. No. I've researched it. Researched it. Once you've got a new identity, a new identity means that boy before did not exist. Unless you get arrested under your new alias, then somehow it gets out and you're given a whole new alias and who's paying for all that? Taxpayers. You, me, everybody else. For these murderers to have everything wiped, there's nothing there. Someone verify this for me because I'm not okay with that. We can go quickly so we search it up after. Right, let's get back into it.

Go on, let's talk about the other one. If you think you're mad now, just you wait. You're making my eye twitch. Right. John Venables has since been arrested. He went down to the pub and he started to brag about who he really was and what he had done. How is he still alive? Right. The people at the pub, right, so I watched this

through, so the people at the pub are like, oh shut up mate, blah blah blah, because what a weird thing to joke about anyway, like that would get my eyebrow in my hairline, I'd be like, why are you saying that? It's not even funny, get the fuck away from me sort of thing. Yeah, you fucking weirdo. So anyway, the person, because the man come forward and gave this account and he's like no yeah yeah, that's me. So then anyway, he's fucked up, so John's down the pub and he's fucked up, he's all drunk yeah, yay! Best day ever!

And then he's gone home and he's gone shit. Because obviously these are his group of mates. And he has fucked up, he's told home and he's gone shit. Because obviously these are his group of mates. And he has fucked up, he's told them who he really is. And then he's like shit, because if they believe me, I'm completely fucked, because if this gets out, public are gonna fire me and fucking kill me. Of course, do you know what I mean? So then he goes home, he then decides to ring the police, right?

Because his identity has been leaked by himself. So when the police arrive, fucking Venables is there with a screwdriver, right? And whatever else, trying to get his hard drive out of his computer. So he's like fucking bang, bang, bang, yeah, he's trying to remove his hard drive out of his computer so he's like fucking bang bang bang yeah he's trying to remove this hard drive so the police walk in and they're like that's weird that's weird bruv why are you trying to take out your hard drive so the police then the police then arrest him temporary because they don't know what's going on. First, their priority is right, we need to get this fucking murderer somewhere safe.

You know, protect him at all costs is the priority. But then they're like, how fucking weird is this? Yeah. So then they take the computer and there is thousands of images of child pornography on his computer. So then he's arrested, he's given a new identity and he is sent to prison for a three year sentence. Okay? sentence okay mm-hmm and then he comes out of prison and I don't know if now because obviously he'd be on the sex offenders register but of course he's

protected because he's not really on it because he's got a new name right but of course he's still John venerable so however that it is that they work and look after him. So then, he then is, so he's now, he's come out and he's now on these fucking chat things, right? And he's pretending to be a woman abusing her child, talking to other pedophiles and sharing children as young as two year old being raped by their parents especially little girls okay so yeah right so he so he had he also was found with a manual a manual right there are manuals out there on how to

have sex with little girls. Right? And over a thousand pictures again were found of children that he was distributing. So not only was he found guilty of having child pornography, he was now found guilty of distributing. I'm not sure what the sentence is. I didn't look up what the sentence is. And as far as I can tell, he is in prison still now, as far as I can tell, because every two years he appeals since his last arrest and then Denise and everybody else has to go and go no don't fucking let this cretin out. So she has never been put to rest bless

her. Never never still not if you see picture you can see in her face that the woman is devastated still but I do I have summarized them for us and you guys so we can end with that knowing exactly where they are now. And he's in prison as far as I can tell. He'd be in a protection part because he's now there for kiddie pornography and inmates don't like that shit either. So what I found interesting because as I'm doing my research I did find one bloke, right, don't know how true, so this is, this is his say yeah, so, but I did find his video. So basically, he's in whatever prison this is, I won't even name, and one of the prison

guards said Venables is here, I want you to take care of it, and he beat him to an inch of his life. Why? Hoping, hoping it's beat him to an inch of his life. Why? Hoping it's true? Why an inch? Hoping it's true? Don't know if it's 100% true.

I don't think so. Don't know how the security guard would have known that he was venerable. Because he's already leaked who he is anyway. Yeah but that would not be in the report. I feel like there are ways to find out. And that is why I can't have. There must be, he's out there. Someone really want to find out.

See, no, I can't even think what it's called. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's EDS. Yeah, yeah, where you check, the register. He would, he's not on it. He would come up. Once we finish the story. It was his new name, or his newest name name or the fifth new fucking name he's had...

Once we finish we'll have a look and see what that means. Right, don't fucking me... Why did you make me do this? I didn't, right. Okay. So now the UK justice system has decided that if he's released, the UK taxpayers are going to pay for Venables to get another new identity being moved abroad and supported because he's not safe here in the UK. No he's not. So they're going to move move into another country with a new identity where the authorities don't know and give him and pay for him to live his life. Are you fucking serious? Where the rest of us can't even afford to eat properly. Have we completely lost our minds? Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Yes. Our country shambles. It's not a joke. Do not let this man out of prison ever. First of all, he's killed a fucking child. Second of all, he lights a bit of child pornography. Has he abused a child? I don't know. Is he going to abuse? I pornography it's has he abused a child i don't know is he gonna

abuse i reckon you know it then made me think is he the one that abused james that day it's giving yes do you see what i mean i mean initially it was giving me especially because you said like he went on to have same-sex partner. Maybe there was Something there. Yeah But this one. Yeah It's very easy to transfer it all onto him. Of course and then Robert is like this is a real bad guy This is a really bad guy Robert was the most upset by being Accused of being is this one? No, this is John being accused of being a pervert. Is this my mother?

No, this is John. I mean, obviously I'm gonna insert, and the more I talk about it, and the more you'll grasp who's who, but the boys do look alike as well, baby. It's very difficult. Even when I was searching, I'm like, who the fuck is who, do you know what I mean?

So, right. So that's all I've gotta say on them, but I have, I am gonna end on James's mom and dad because I think that This story is about James Bolger his mum is an incredible woman and his dad is an incredible man because I cannot even for a second put myself in her place and And I've watched her interviews over the years and the pain in her face is the same all the time, right? And I'm not gonna talk about it.

I'm just gonna say it's some people compare James' mum Denise to the McCanns. And they're like, that's what real mourning is. But I'm not gonna get into all that because this is not the podcast. but my point is the woman's broken and has continued to be broken and the blame on herself she has is real devastating because it's really it was two minutes from start to finish two minutes and they were out of there we We're talking about a shopping centre. Which is

all it takes. But okay, in the months after the trial, they then went on to have their second baby boy, a son. Okay, so she obviously fell pregnant in the times that James died and the trial for the boys. Bulger's parents, Ralph and Denise, broke up and divorced in 1995. I can assume that the trauma of what happened to their son and their daughter previously was just too much grief to bear for them both to heal. Do you know what I mean? Denise Bolger's later married Stuart Fergus with whom she had two more sons. Ralph Bolger also remarried and went on to have three daughters with his second wife. So doesn't take away anything they've been through, but I am so thankful that they have grown their family and I'm sure in both of those families, all of their children know exactly who James was and how special he was just for those few years that they managed

to spend with him. But if you will, go back to that first question I had about what are the odds of them finding each other and both becoming murderers simply out of nowhere. It's got to be the psyche of both of them, right? You've got to have it in you. Do you think they would have killed had they never met? Because I don't. I think John was always going to grow up and be a fucking rongin and a paedophile, but I do not believe that Thompson would have killed.

I just don't. I think he would have been angry and done stupid shit, but I don't think, I think them being together in that moment, in that circumstances, in that timeline led to the death of James. And it's fucking weird. It's like Fred and Rose West. I think it's,

I mean, Blaine can be put on so many different aspects of them as a kid, like where it's their home life, over their school life, the fact that they've both got held back, and that's how they got put together. It's that sense. But they didn't particularly like each other prior to that. They weren't friends before, didn't talk, nothing, didn't hang out first. And that's what I'm saying

babe, that one moment in time led to them connecting. It just doesn't make, it doesn't make sense because although they got held back, that doesn't make, that doesn't make anybody then become a killer so they've got to have had it together yeah and that's why I'm saying of course and listen obviously one egging the other one on and they don't they don't sound like they had many brain cells between themselves but the police believe this was all premeditated like they had gone out with intentions of killing, not so graphically does that make sense, so they had gone out with intentions to cause havoc and to kill a child in the road by a car accidentally. They did not go

out to brutally kill a child, that wasn't the intention. The intention was to throw it... Shoving someone in front of a car is brutal. I'm not saying that. My point is they weren't going to do it themselves. I don't know. I don't know because any child is going to pull back. Yeah. And the fact that they were punching and kicking that baby before anything actually happened. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. How can you lay your hands on a two year old in such a way? I can't put my head there, I just can't do it. No, they had it in them. No, they definitely, definitely had it in them, but the fact that those two met, which pushed them over the edge to do it is what I find so fucking mental

They're like, yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. And then if you had any humanity in you and you you take a child and they're crying and then one of them kicks the other and you see how Distressed that child is you should then be going something. This is a bad idea child is you should then be going something this is a bad idea especially especially didn't yeah so neither of them who did I start it was Robert wasn't it this what I mean my brain sometimes is like right so Robert is fifth of seven so he has two little brothers so they're all boys and there's nothing in him that's like like fucking hurting and looking at this baby and like, oh my god, don't do that.

No, because it was said that his siblings also beat up on him. Yes, the older ones. That was normal. Yeah, but it was normal to be able to kick and punch a kid. But not to the extremes of what they did to James. You don't know how badly it got beaten. I just think that the whole thing. If his other siblings are beating him, maybe he was thinking about his children as well.

Nature over Nurture. They definitely like, I agree with you, they definitely had it in them to kill, right? But Nurture played a massive part in that, 100%. The parents, the neglect, this, that and the other definitely should be held account and have been in the sense although they're f*** knows they're off living their new lives. They're even into the school. Yeah. Because they then later found out that they weren't in school. Why weren't they phoning up that parent to say, your kid's not in school, where's your kid? That, this is another, now that's a very common thing. Like, if your child is going to the dentist, you've got to supply DNA now, right?

It's a whole fucking thing. But back then, high school not so much, right? But junior school, definitely junior school, where is so and so? So I can't really understand where why no one was like because actually timeline wise parents should have already known their kid was missing they should have already known again not oh they haven't come home from school oh I bet I call the police because my kids missing. What really got me is the audacity

of fucking Venable's mum to be like, getting the un- where have you been, bitch? You don't care. You don't care. You did not care enough to know what he was doing. It's because he didn't get home to do his chores. Yeah. Yeah, no, I know.

I'm like, yeah, fucking bitch. So anyway, that is the case of James. I don't feel like... Didn't I like, made sense and everything in it? Yeah, it made sense. Yeah. Some of it didn't make sense, but not because of what you read,

but because of the fucking... The people. The people in it and the outcomes and... Yeah. I just think there were so many opportunities for him not to die that day and... Yeah, they're all accountable. I don't care what anyone says.

If 40 plus adults could have gone, I saw him and not one person intervened. Did anything. Not enough to make it stop anyway. No, you're all accountable. Just like, I just don't, I just don't, I just... It takes a village to raise a kid, yeah? Yeah.

And if you're watching two kids drag a baby along the road. If you're watching anybody, anybody. And you're watching them hit that child and that child's screaming for mom. And you're like, you all right? All right, great, please station that way. Nice one, you know the way bye. No It's not like that clear to everyone listening that if you see something you fucking say something

Do you know I mean and if you're too scared to say something? Call the police tell him what's going on tell him where you are get your phone out and record and make sure you've got that evidence for the police because Children to this day are still suffering it's just more secret now because we're hearing the time. But first call the police before you start recording. Yeah. Because you know what, that's when it's too late.

Yeah. We've all watched it on all the socials but someone's hurt, someone's lost, someone's dead. Yeah. But you took the time to record it. I mean we're talking about, we're. I mean we're talking about we're talking about We're talking about kids yeah do better Simple do better because I want

If I was doing something like that or even a family member or a friend of mine was doing something hurting a child in any sort Way you best fucking believe I'd step in you know I mean that wraps it up guys I hope that I'm not gonna say that you enjoyed it but I hope that you managed to follow along and understand the story as I read it and kind of understood our points a few coming from where we did both parents do you know I? Both very different upbringings, but it doesn't fucking matter. The point is, there's right and there's wrong, and these kids are wrong.

I don't care that Tompton has gone on, and he is happy and he's done well in his life, he will still burn in hell in my opinion. And Venables, when he gets out, if he gets out, then shame on the UK government that's my final thoughts anything to add fuck those people fuck those people so please eight years eight years it's not even that they threw him in front of So, please- Eight years. Eight years. It's not even that they threw him in front of a train or in front of a car, they brutally tortured him.

That's what gets me. Do you know what I mean? It's not that they were stupid and threw him in front of a car. And then four kids found that baby's body and they were still suffering. Traumatized for the rest of their lives. To this day. So they should have got time for that as well. And then you think, The suffering of others as well.

Then you think, so then John and Venables, so we said we were done, then John and Venables go on to have this fantastic time, right, in this youth club, right? These four boys, parents are probably still struggling. They've had to, what, who paid for their fucking counseling and them to get over things?

Nobody. And that is my fucking point. So we want to treat these kids and rehabilitate and all that. And I'm not saying we don't rehabilitate, but we don't do it like roses and picnics. They need to earn that sort of shit. I can't even get into like the stuff. Because some people have come through that did spend time in the youth centers obviously for not heinous crimes like that because they were so you've got short residents and then you've got long-time residents. Could you imagine being in there and these two rocked up? Yeah well apparently one of one of the interviews I did see he said that they

were all like sitting in the rec room right right? And then the case comes on TV. I can't remember which boy it was, but they fucking stood up, went to their room and had some sort of tantrum. And then, of course, like the TV had to go off and nobody was allowed to talk about it. And I suppose as a child in a situation like that, amongst someone like that, you're not going to really go into it. But I don't know man

all this pussy fitting around yes one has not gone on to offend as far as we know but the other one is an outright wrong and wrong and you're still trying to fucking protect him mate let's get it together that's all I've got to say about that, follow, and subscribe. I do hope that you're enjoying our little change up on true crime as I torment Emily and myself. It was hard to write up, I'm not gonna pretend. It was difficult. Cause I just keep stopping and starting mate. Cause I was like, falsy people, bruv.

You taking the piss out of me. Right, say goodbye Emily. Bye Emily. No, say goodbye to our people. Bye people. Bye.