Midnight Burger - Creator Chats - Joe Fisher and Gabriel Urbina on "The Harbingers"

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Please enjoy this chat between Joe and Gabriel Urbina, creator of Wolf 359 and the new show "The Harbingers," then stick around to hear the first episode!More about The Harbingers:Adam Blackwell is the most powerful man in the world. But he hasn't always been. Five years ago he was just a humble grad student at Sinclair University. How did he go from a nobody to the world's first modern magician? And once he got that power, what has he done with it?Be advised: this episode contains depictions of drinking and smoking, as well as strong language and discussions of politics. It also contains mentions, though not depictions, of violence, death, war crimes, the Holocaust, and a large-scale disaster. Listener discretion is advised.The Harbingers was created by Gabriel Urbina. Today's episode was written by Gabriel Urbina, directed and sound designed by Jeffrey Nils Gardner, and executive produced by Eleanor Hyde. It featured the voices of Andrés Enriquez as Adam Blackwell, Lauren Grace Thompson as Amy Stirling, Emmy Bean as Claudia Skinner, and Kristen DiMercurio as Erica Pfeiffer. It also featured the voice of Olivia Love-Hatlestad. The original music for the series is by Nicholas Podany, and the original art is by Cassie J. Allen. Recording engineering and dialogue editing by Zhuolin Wu. This is an Audacious Machine production.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I'll tell you one thing. What I do want to do, I want to, like, cold open. Here's something I want to ask you. Because this, the new show, it is modern fantasy, one would say, right? Yes. Okay. And then, but now previously you've also written science fiction. Yes.

And now let me ask you, are there sometimes when you want to punch fantasy writers right in their face? Let me explain what I mean. because like with fantasy, it's like things happen just because, like, this is, like, the reason why this is happening in the story is because of the magical scroll, you know, whereas in sci-fi you have to actually like find a reason why things are happening and it's infuriating that they get to do that. It feels unfair to me, you know? I mean, I-

Maybe that's just me. I always, it's rare that I don't want to punch people. in the face. There's always a reason why I want to punch someone in the face. Sooner or later, the probability of me wanting to punch you in the face, it just approaches a hundred percent.

You know, like, that's just the way they're going. Eventually. Yes. But no, but look, I really subscribe to the notion of those stories, whether they are fantasy or science fiction, really tend to work better.

The more that the fantastical or sort of supernatural or whatever you want to call it elements, the more that they can all be traced back to like one single source. Right. Whereas the more that it is kind of, you know, it's a world with aliens and psychics and strange weather phenomena and all these things, you're at a certain point. It's just kind of a like, okay, so just like anything can happen at any point for any reason. Right.

We have gotten to the point where I want to punch you in the face. Hello, everyone. Hello, Midnight Burger people. It's Joe. Hi. Now, you may be wondering what the hell is going on right now, and let me explain. I am currently talking with the one, the only, Gabrielle Obina. Hello, Gabrielle. How are you? I'm terrific. I've just gotten to, you know, vent some very angry, violent feelings. So I'm feeling great right now. Isn't it great? I feel like a weight has been lifted, right? Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Very cathartic. So the reason why, the reason why we're here today is because we're going to be bringing you, the first episode of Gabriel's new show. Now, for those of you who don't know,

which is probably very few of you, you may know Gabriel from unseen, from zero hours, or of course, the Incredible Wolf 359, creator of all those. Gabriel, you've got a new show out. I do.

I'm adding to my rap sheet. Adding to your rap sheet. And it is called the Harbingers. That's the one. This is a great show. I've been listening to it. It sounds really. really, really, really fantastic.

Oh, thank you. That is all thanks to Jeffrey, our incredible sound designer, Nichols Padani, our brilliant composer, and our terrific actors. It really is an amazing, an amazing team putting all of this together. Like, you can feel like in every second of the audio, you really do, you really do feel it. Where did this, where did it all start? It started in Michigan, appropriately enough. This is one of these stories where we have a very specific origin point for the idea.

because I'd been working with Jeffrey and Eleanor, the folks at Audacious Machine Creative, the company behind this show, on a different show. I'd been working on their fictional chat show world gone wrong. And so we had a little company retreat where we all went to Michigan and we bounced some ideas for new seasons and new episodes, new adventures that that show could go on. And that also then inevitably transitioned into let's bounce around ideas for adventures that we could go on as creative people. And Jeffrey and Eleanor were kind enough to ask me if I had any ideas for audio fiction series that I might want to make.

And that led to a couple of conversations about the sort of shows that we wanted to be listening to, the kind of ideas that we wanted to see tackled in our fiction, the kind of, again, just kind of explorations of the audio space that we wanted to go on. and out of that sort of retreat next to a gigantic frozen lake is where the first seeds of the harbingers came. That's amazing. You know, you're talking about, so, you know, basically what we're talking about is a, I mean, to put it very broadly, this is a, this is a story that takes place in the modern

world, a world that feels yes, the same as yours and mine. Very, very close to it, at the very least. Very, very close to it. But the world of magic is starting to sort of seep into this very real world. world. Yes, it is kind of one of those, they're used to be magic. Magic has been long absent. And now, what if tomorrow we woke up and the headlines were, a man has figured out how to do magic. Magic is starting to seep back into modern society. And what would that world be like? And you were talking about, you know, in these initial conversations, you're talking about

the ideas that you wanted to talk about. The show is full of ideas. And these are not ideas about magic necessarily or the rules of the magical world. These are ideas about the world that you and I live in. There's a lot of discussion of geopolitics. There's a lot of discussion of, you know, a lot of discussion of a lot of the things

that you see discussed in the news right now. Right. Was, is that just how you, like when you sit down to write, that's just what comes out? Or was, did you set out to write about a certain, you know, sort of basket of issues? Basket of issues. Yes, yes. The famous writing term, basket of issues. Basket of issues.

It's a little bit of a mix. of both of those. It's, see, I'm reminded of, I promise that this very fast anecdote will get back to answering your question. No, no, no. We love long anecdotes on Midnight Burger. Go for it. I am reminded of a few years ago when the French movie, Teton, came out. And everyone was losing their minds and watching it and getting, you know, sort of the, getting their brains dented by, everything that happened in that movie.

For sure. And at a certain point, there was sort of a conversation in my friend group that was, okay, but what is it about this very weird movie that is so compelling to us? Right. And it was The Brilliant Mac Rogers, creator of Give Me Away and a couple of other amazing audio fiction shows that articulated at best when he sort of just very off the cuff said that is a movie that encapsulates this idea that any attempt that we have to leave our humanity behind is only going to lead to stranger and more violent collisions with it.

The more that we try to go into fantasy, the more that reality is just going to catch up to us in stronger, more unexpected ways. And I feel that when you do a show about fantasy and about magic and about people that have supernatural powers, it's that exact same thing. Of the more that you go into, this man can do impossible things, the more that you are leaning into, this is now a conversation about people in our real world that have powers that they maybe shouldn't have. You know, you do a show about, oh my God, this is someone that has the capability to snap his fingers and destroy an entire city and kill everyone there. Isn't that terrifying? Isn't that like awful and terrible? And then you sort of go for a moment and think about it and you go, well,

wait a minute. We live in a world with atomic weaponry, for example. We have now been living for about five generations in a world where multiple of those people really do exist, where somebody could decide to do that. And so, yeah, so I think that it just comes with the territory of, you know, fantasy is fun because you get to a little bit leave the reality that is so commonplace behind, but it only leads to stranger, more violent collisions with all the things that we have in the world around us. It's interesting you describe it that way because, you know, in leaving the world that you live in behind, the world, you're saying that it almost clarifies the world that you're living in when you are talking about your world in a sort of fancy. fantastical setting because the specifics of your world.

And putting it through a different prison, yeah. So the specifics of the world are stripped away, leaving the ideas. Exactly. Which makes them, you know, makes them easier to talk about, you're saying. 100%. That's very fascinating stuff. It's, you know, it was described to me, it was described to me as the West Wing with magic. That is, that is one of the sort of what I think of as kind of like the business card introductions,

that we've been trying for the show. You're in the elevator, yes. And this is, you have 10 seconds. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because one of my problems as a writer is that I have never been able to come up with a show that can be quickly explained. Inevitably, it's always like, there's this and there's that and there's the other and this and all of a sudden it's like three paragraphs just to get the basic concept of the show

out there. Right. So we have been kind of workshopping different ways to describe the show. And West Wing with Magic, I think is we're. one of the better ones. The other one that I really like is it's like Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, but if it was happening in modern day America rather than in 18th century Britain. Right. You know, something that we should definitely talk about right now is because we're talking to Midnight Burger listeners, hi guys, one thing we should definitely talk about is the fact that

One of the co-stars in the show is Lauren Grace Thompson. Yes, the incredible Lauren Grace Thompson. The incredible Lauren Grace Thompson. Now, listeners, you may know her as the voice of young Bertbert on Midnight Burger, and now she is also in this show as well, doing an amazing job. She is a truly incredible actor. And I just, the number of times that I've given her something, that I'm not sure is good or not.

And then she says it. And then I'm like, oh, it's actually great. Fantastic. She's really wonderful in this. She's one of those performers that may just be completely unstoppable. Like, there may just be nothing that Lauren can't do. Because her character in the Harbingers, yeah, her character in the Harbingers is someone that could be so prickly and so acerbic and so unlikable.

And Lauren just always finds a way to deliver her lines with such a somehow audible twinkle in her eye, such a sense of charisma and such a sense of personality. Yeah. That you sort of go, oh, my God, this woman is such a mess and so terrible. And I love her with every fiber of my being. For sure. It's really like, it's a wonderful, it's, those, those are wonderful moments. with Lauren when she has like a block of text coming up and she launches into it and you're

listening to it and you're thinking, God, I would hate to be on the receiving end of what she's saying right now. It is, you know, because it can be, it can be a withering experience. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. But and at the same time is, you know, there's, and usually when usually people are like that, I have a hard time, like, connecting with them emotionally. But Lauren has this ability to be completely carving someone up like a turkey while at, and at the same time, you're seeing them as a human being, as a fully fleshed human being. You know what I mean? I think that she's incapable of playing anything one dimensionally, which I think is where

that comes from. Because it is so often with those kinds of things, it is just sort of this, and now for half a page, we're just getting this single note over and over and over and over again. Whereas with Lauren, it is always sort of point and counterpoint. It is always sort of, oh, my God, it's the vicious dressing down and I feel the wounded pride beneath it. Or, oh, my God, it is the dressing down and I feel the righteous anger or the indignation or the insecurity. There is always sort of this two-way communication of she is representing what the character is doing and then also just so, visibly representing what the character is feeling underneath it.

It's really magical. It's something else. It really is. It's such a, it's, it's, it's so great to just hear her in anything. I'm always excited when her voice pops up in anything. So, um, uh, so in listening to the episodes that you have out right now, there's four out right now. There are four out at the moment.

Episode five comes out next week as of when we are recording this. Next week as of when we are recording this. A week from today, actually. You know, I get, like with some stories, I get the sense of a very definitive endpoint, right? Like I can see that we're sort of, we're careening towards a very definitive place. But with this story, as I'm listening to it, I get the sense that we're kind of like, you know, that moment in Legend of Zelda when I'm at the top of the mountain overlooking. And all of a sudden you're like, oh, wait, this was not actually the tallest mountain. Yeah.

Right. And you're looking at all of the things that are possible. And, you know, it does feel like there is in this story a lot of potential in the future, you know, because I'm not, I mean, there's certainly events that are talked about in the show. Yeah. That you're definitely excited to hear the experience. explanation of. Right. But it's certainly, but it's not, but the story isn't about what happened.

You know, the story isn't about what led to that incident. The story is really about we are in this world now. Yeah. And we don't know what's going to happen next. I mean, have you, are you seeing it, are you seeing it like that? Or is it as more of a definitively, this is the end sort of experience? Oh, what a great question. So the fun and difficult thing about writing this show is that this is a show unlike anything that I've ever written because the structure of it is kind of events in the story start to happen around 2025.

Occasionally will poke to an even earlier point than that, but really the narrative gets going in 2025. but the story is being told in 2030 as the two main characters are going through some prep sessions with a lawyer for a congressional hearing that they have both been rather sternly invited to attend by the United States government because of some not particularly awesome stuff that went down. And so different episodes are bouncing up and down that timeline.

You know, episode two is in like 2020, Then episode three is in 2025. Episode four is in 2025 and 2018. Like you're kind of just like bouncing up and down the timeline as opposed to just kind of going. Episode one is on Monday. Episode two is on Tuesday. Episode three is on Wednesday and so on. Which is really, really fun because you get to, you know, play a lot of really fun trolling games with your audience

where you can kind of reveal different things. at different moments and kind of keep certain things back as the story unfolds. And then show them something that makes them kind of go, oh, my God, now I need to go back and relisten to things because it's going to have a completely different context. But then the downside of that is that you kind of need to do so much math up front because then you are kind of like, okay, what is the actual timeline of these five years?

what is most of the stuff that happened in these five years. Because I need to have a clear enough idea of events that I can actually put together that non-linear presentation of it. And the great thing about working with folks like the Audacious Machine team is that they have enabled and encouraged, and some might even say pushed me into all my worst ideas. all my worst tendencies in terms of having a really, really ambitious scope. Because, for example, at the end of the third episode, you learn something that really kind of changes the way that you might think about the story, because it is one of those moments that kind of goes, and if you think that the entire story is just about this one very zoomed-in thing that we are going to be focused on, let me tell you that there's all of these other

things happening off screen that we're not getting to yet. And that entirely came out of us having conversations that were like, ah, isn't doing this going to be so fun when we get to it in like season three, isn't that great? And then kind of going like, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let's start to have that fun in season one. Let's start to kind of like tell people what kind of party it is. Let's not hold back on that. And so that is a little bit of, of where it is. There is kind of a very set timeline. There is a very set kind of set of ideas about the show.

We do have a idea about how things are going to end. But for example, there is no possibility that the story is going to get wrapped up in season one. We are already talking about this is at minimum a multi-year story. And it is really wonderful and intoxicating. and terrific to get to tell the story where you are going, this is a multi-year canvas minimum. Right. It is one of those stories where I feel like there are so many moments

that implies so much more. There are so many moments where it's like, it's like you're sort of going down this corridor and you keep seeing tributaries. You know, you keep seeing other places you can go down, but you're going down this direction right now. You know you're going to have to, you know, swing back around and see these other places at some point.

And it's like with every step into the story, the story seems to get more and more expansive, which is really, really great to listen to it. I love that metaphor because, and this is actually something that I've thought about while writing the show, on more than one occasion, the thing that I've tried to simulate is there is a scene in the Cameron Crow movie, almost famous, where the protagonist, who's this young teenager that's gotten wrapped up in, like, the uvra of a rock band in 1973, he gets taken to this hotel in L.A. where, like, a bunch of bands are staying.

And the scene just needs to be, like, he walks down a hotel hall room to get to the hotel room where they're all hanging out. And he keeps walking past these rooms where the doors are, like, half a jar and catching glimpses of things that you're like, wait a minute,

go back in there. Like, that's a whole movie in and of itself. Like, what was going on in that room? And he's just like, I got to get to, like, the main hotel room. Like, you know, I have this appointment that I got to keep. And you're just going, oh my God, but no, wait, I go back and like, tell me more about that.

Tell me more about what was going on there. That seemed really cool or that seemed really sweet or that seemed really exciting. Yeah. So I love that you use that metaphor because I've thought about that more than once as I've been figuring out the writing for the show. You can tell. You know, you can tell that there's, you know, there's, you know, you feel like you're not walking into a series of plot lines.

You feel like you're walking into an entire world, you know, which is one of the exciting things about the show, I think. So let me ask, you know, you've been doing this for a while. We can go back to Wolf 3-5-9. We can go back to before that. And here we are now in the year 2025. How have you witnessed the sort of the podcasting landscape change, the audio drama landscape change? How's the audience changed?

Has it changed? You know, how do you compare then to now? I mean, I tend to be one of those, the more things change, the more they stay the same kind of guys. You know, I started podcasting in 2014 back when woolly mammoths roamed through the RSS feeds. And in that time. Steam-powered RSS feeds. That's right. I think that in that time, audio fiction has been declared dead about three times.

and has, you know, has, you know, risen from the grave at least two times. And maybe we're due for like another resurrection sometime in the next year or so. And I think that all of the big sort of seismic changes that people tend to focus on tend to kind of be about what a few companies are doing with the top echelons of the quote-unquote talent in the scene. And so when people are kind of like, all the money is gone, audio fiction is dead, I'm kind of looking around and sort of being like, you know, look, at its heart, some of my best work in the medium for the entire time that I've been here is work that has been made for basically no money in someone's garage. And that is the place where there is still so much experimentation happening, where there's still so much discovery, where so many cool stories are being put together. And we're seeing that a lot of creators, even people that, you know, have been working for some of those big companies while the money was there, are now coming back and sort of going, well, I love the freedom of being able to tell the story. I love the speed of the medium.

I love that you can kind of do something. And I love to play with the imagination. So I want to come back here and do something with my own resources. Right. So I don't give too much credence to this idea of there are these giant industrial changes that have completely transformed. form the scene, I think that the level of audience literacy is the thing that has changed. I think that gone are sort of like those early days of kind of so many people going, I've kind of half listened to some welcome to night fail. I think that I get it, but I'm still

very intimidated by this idea of it is this play that unfolds entirely in my headphones, and I don't know how to engage with that yet. I think that now people are so sophisticated. I think that they have listened so much. I think that they are down to do, you know, to be involved in stories that are more innovative, stories that are more experimental, stories that tell different kinds of narratives. I think that that's the biggest thing that I've seen change in the 10 years that I've been around this bar. That's very cool. It is, you know, it's an exciting audience, you know, and it's great.

It's an audience because, you know, we kind of stumbled accidentally into doing it, you know, we started doing it during the pandemic just to have something to focus. And an outlet, yeah. Just have an outlet. And to see that there was this audience out there that was ready to get much we weirder with it than we had thought was really comforting. And it's just, it's wonderful to know that it's, you know, that the audience is out there and they have literally had nothing, you know, for a long time.

You know, and it's, so it's great to, you know, it's great to meet these people and be connected to this whole world. Yeah. It's, it's been really a trip. So, okay, so we've got four episodes out now. Mm-hmm. We are, right after this conversation, you're going to hear, everyone, you're going to hear the first episode of the Harbingers. And then the next three you can listen to instantly on the podcasting app of your choice, everyone. So pick it up.

Wherever podcasts are sold. Wherever podcasts are sold, you can listen to The Harbingers. It's a great show. I'm really looking forward to hearing more. And Gabriel, thank you so much for coming in and talking to the Midnight Burger people today. Gosh, are you kidding me? Thank you for having me. I'm so thrilled to be here.

All right. And here we go, episode one of The Harbingers. Ms. Skinner, will be right with you, Dr. Blackwell. We're sorry for the delay. It's fine. Don't worry about it. Can I get you anything while you wait? Water?

A cup of coffee? I'm all right, Miss Fyfer. Thank you. Was there something else? No, that's everything. Thank you. Well, actually, um... Look, I just want to say,

I know it probably feels like the whole world's against you right now, but there are people who... who get what you did and why you did it. Thank you, Miss Fyfer. I appreciate you saying that. I mean it. If you hadn't been there, if you hadn't done what... They're saying that it could have gotten so much worse than... It got bad enough, Miss Fyfer.

We let it get bad enough. I know. I know. But still... Thank you, Miss Fifeyfer. Wifer. I think that's more than enough. Oh, yes, ma'am. Is there anything? I think we're all set. I'll ring if we need anything. Yes. Ms. Skinner? Dr. Blackwell? Please excuse Erica, Dr. Blackwell. She's a wonderful assistant, but unfortunately she's still a bit... Naive. Optimistic. Still a bit young and optimistic. I'll fix that in due course. But in the meantime, welcome

to Skinner DeVries and Wiseman, Dr. Blackwell. My name is Claudia Skinner. It's a pleasure to finally meet you. Yes. Same here. Thank you for making the time. You're young. Young to have your name on the side of the building, I mean. Ah, it's my father's name. He started the firm back in 2004. Ah. And so you... Graduated summa cum laudee from Brown and went on to get law degrees in both Cambridge, England, and Cambridge, Massachusetts? Absolutely. I assure you, Dr. Blackwell, you are in excellent hands. Do you have any questions before we get started?

Yes. How much do you charge? My fees are being taken care of. You don't need to worry about that. That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking... A personal injury lawyer is, what, $2.50 an hour, give or take? If I was trying to get a divorce, that's $400.

It's $600 an hour for an immigration attorney, and nine for the kind of lawyer I'd need if I hadn't shot a man. and Reno just to watch him die. So how much are you with your Alexander McQueen suit and your name on the side of the building and your naive assistant you're turning to the dark side? How much are you charging per hour to sit here and talk to me? It's more than any of the numbers you just quoted. I can say that much.

How much more? Dr. Blackwell, is there a reason you need to know this right now? Is there a reason why you're not just telling me? You know, there's this story my father used to tell to his clients. He'd go, once upon a time, there was a young scor. who wanted to cross a river. Unfortunately, he couldn't swim. So he asked a passing turtle to carry him on his back.

The turtle hesitated, but eventually agreed after the scorpion promised not to sting him. But when they were halfway through the river, a terrible impulse fell upon the scorpion. He brought his stinger down and... And as they both start drowning, the scorpion says, don't look at me. It's in my nature. And you knew I was a scorpion when you agreed to take me

across the river. Yeah, I know that one. Actually, as the scorpion stinger bounced harmlessly off the turtle's hard shell, he found the other animal looking back at him over his shoulder. And the turtle just said, tell me, you want to fuck around some more, or do you want me to get you across this fucking river? That was a story about how sometimes you can just let people help you. A frog. It's usually a frog when I've heard that story. Well, let me assure you, Dr. Blackwell, dealing with a frog. And let me remind you, you are the center of an unprecedented disaster, one in which people died. The only reason you haven't been charged with hysterical number of criminal charges is because no one is quite sure of how the law interfaces with your unique

circumstance. But the government's catching up. They're doing a congressional hearing, the kind that's going to decide how a lot of laws are going to work in this country, and they have been kind enough to invite you to participate. And when I say invite, I mean subpoena. This hearing is either going to go exceptionally well for you, or it is going to lead to you being invited to see the inside of a courtroom in a trial which you will have no chance of winning. So finally, allow me to ask you, would you like me to get you across the river, or would you

prefer to fuck around some more? Let's get you. across the river. Let's. This is Claudia Skinner, handling case MGR 831. This is information prep session, number one. It is November 7, 2030. Dr. Blackwell, just so we can get the formalities out of the way, could you please state your full name, as well as the capacity in which you are known as a public figure? Yes. My name is Dr. Adam Blackwell, and I...

I am the first human being with real scientifically confirmed men. magic powers. I am the most powerful man in the world. Audacious machine creative presents the Harbingers, created by Gabriel Rubino. Episode 1, I'd love to change the world. All right, Dr. Blackwell, why don't we start at the beginning? Sure. I was born April 15, 1998, in Portland, Oregon. The house where I grew up had yellow shutters, the white fence, the nursery? Oh, what? You're allowed to be cute and I'm not? Is that how it works?

That is exactly how it works. Let me be more precise. You were a graduate student at Sinclair University in Chicago, yes? Yes. You were a master's candidate in the archaeology program? Technically the anthropology department, but yes. Why? Why? Why did I want to study archaeology? Is that relevant? It could be. If you chose to study archaeology, but yes.

study archaeology because it was your beloved father's dying wish? Very relevant. If you were convinced there were ancient secrets buried somewhere out there that would help us fight the rise of fascism, absolutely. If you became an archaeologist solely out of your deep-seated love for the films of the Indiana Jones series, that can stay between the two of us. I liked languages. I thought I was going to study linguistics and go on to work as a translator, but then my second year in college, I took an anthropology class, and I just fell in love. Yes, that would be from Rapa Nui to Harbingers, an introductory survey to the forgotten empires of the world, taught by Julian McAnlis, who went on to be your mentor and chief dissertation advisor.

That class changed my life. It showed me a new way of thinking about the world, and it taught me... Tell me about Amelia Sterling. Amy, Miss Sterling, was another. grad student at Sinclair. We started the master's program at the same time. Did you think much of her? Ms. Stirling was brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant, but she could be stubborn. It could be difficult to get a word in edgewise around her. Would you call her a rival? Okay. Well, here's what you need to understand. If you were interested in the study of ancient, cultures, that grad program at Sinclair was the place. It was one of the best funded programs. It had some of the best professors, some of the best opportunities, but there wasn't enough of all the above

to go around. Anytime one of us got a research project approved or a seat on a field expedition or even time with our advisors, we were taking it away from one of the other students. In as much as you could say it about me and Amy, you could say it about all of us. We were all rivals. And yet, you didn't go on a date with any of the other students in the program, did you? Oh, my, come on! That's inbound? How do you even know about that? This isn't the hard part, you know. Lord knows, we haven't gotten anywhere near the hard part. It's all going to come out, Adam, and I'm going to be the friendliest person who's going to ask you about it.

So, pretty please. Stop fucking around and answer the question. One. I went on one date. With her. I was 26, and I thought it might be a good idea. Did you find her attractive? The then diagram between the people who like Ms. Stirling and the people who like oxygen is very close to being a circle. Dr. Blackwell?

Yes, I found her attractive. And we went out one time. Must have been April of 2025. And how did it go? What did the two of you talk about? Sinclair University, April 2025. Okay. Did you know that right now on this planet,

there are seven people who could save the world? Seven people who... What? Seven people, all with the power to save the world. Right. Well, common sense says that cannot possibly be true. Ah, and yet. You're not talking like people with their fingers on nuclear buttons

who are choosing not to press them, thus preventing anyone from... No, no, no, no, no. Fuck that. That sucks. I'm talking active, making things. things that are broken, not be broken, saving the world. All right, I'm intrigued. Who are these seven real world superheroes?

Paul Berthold, Makoto Kamiki, Simon Godowski, Jerome Eckermberg, Jacqueline St. Pierre, Carlos Luis Mendez, and Zakir Mujambar. Ah, the seven richest men in the world. Six richest men and its richest woman, thank you very much. Okay, sure. And the way they save the world is... Simon Godowski has a net worth of 210 billion. You want to know how much NGOs estimate the yearly cost of ending world hunger would be?

From the way you're presenting that question, I'm guessing $200 billion. No, way high. Conservative estimate? $10 billion a year. Easy. What? That cannot possibly be true. Extreme poverty is even cheaper.

Threshold is set at those living for $3.20 a day. There's people living for $3.00? Yes, there are people living at $3.20 a day. Bumping approximately 900 million people up to that level costs about $1.8 billion. Chump change. How do you just know this? Clean water across the whole world, 50 billion. Child health, about $400 a year per child.

Call that another $50 billion. Homelessness is more complicated, but local experts estimate that $13 billion would end homelessness in San Francisco. That's not solving the issue globally. No, still, that's a start. All of which begs the question. If there are people who have the ability to just snap their fingers and save the world. world, why is the world not saved? I mean, besides the obvious reason.

It's the whole, sorry, obvious. What obvious reason? Well, just because Jacqueline St. Pierre has a net worth of $200 billion, it doesn't mean she has it sitting in a bank somewhere. It's in, like, stocks and bonds and company valuation. Okay, sure, fine, but that's a road bump. If you have something worth $50 billion, theoretically, you should be able to sell it, and then you'd have $50 billion, yeah?

I'm sort of scared to disagree with you right now. Good. That means my whole schick is doing its job. But to get back to the real question, there is no fucking good reason. If someone has that much money, that much power, and there's so much broken in the world, they have a moral imperative to do something about it. So, really, from a social, pragmatic point of view, I don't think. think there's a way to justify the existence of any of them. So we're going to eat the rich?

Just the seven richest. That's all I'm asking. Let's eat those seven people and feed the world. Oh, holy shit. Put a beer and a half in me and I just, I went off on a whole thing. Wow. It was very impressive. Still, though, I'm sorry.

I clearly do not know how to do first dates. It's fine. How do you know all of this stuff? I like actuarial tables and I have a good head for numbers. Even when I'm outraged. No, especially when I am outraged. So, now what? I was thinking we'd finish these beers, settle up, and then I'd get you to walk me home.

You'd get me to walk you home? Would I have any say in the matter? Oh, none whatsoever. I have very pretty eyes and I can make them get all big and round so I can basically get people to do anything I want. Here, watch. Please. Oh my God. Put those away before you hurt somebody.

It's like a superpower. I'm basically a Batman villain. You know, there is an alternative. To you walking me home? Because, dude, I think you're going to want to. No, no, no, I mean, no, I do want. I just... How much would it cost to, say, fix climate change?

Oh, that's a big one. Somewhere in the ballpark of 700 billion a year? Well, see, there you go. If I was someone that wanted to solve climate change, but I only had 200 billion, wouldn't the best most ethical thing I could do with that money be to, well, turn it into? 700 billion?

I mean, no. Not if you, like, like if you're burning the world to get richer, that's not going to solve anything. No, no, of course not. I'm just talking in the abstract. This isn't even a real...

Oh, okay, good, because... You're talking about, obviously. Obviously. No, no, I just mean, this is all just a thought experiment. No, but you can see how that's a slippery. No, one person can actually stop the world from ending. That's my point that I'm trying... Oh, okay, maybe in like a photographer level, but like in the real world that's not.

I cannot wait to hear this. Would you just let me talk for a second? I can see it, is all I'm saying. I can see why someone might not immediately sink all of their resources into solving one problem if there was something bigger and more meaningful they could do later on. And therefore, I can see why we might want to give your evil seven or whatever a bit of latitude. That's all I'm saying. You done?

Cool, I'm going to go home. Well, Amy, hang on. Pro tip, dude. Next time you're trying to pick up a grad school girl with tattoos and a shaved head, playing devil's advocate for the billionaire oligarchy is so not the move. See ya. You know, this is exactly why McCandless hasn't approved any of your research proposals. What did you just say to me?

You know, your proposals for the archives or fieldwork. You know how he keeps telling you to go back to the drawing board to think bigger? This is why. You never look at the big picture, Amy. You almost just swing for the fences, and he knows it, and you know it. And you? Adam fucking Blackwell are so afraid of taking any swing at all that when your opportunity comes, you're going to let it sail past you.

And you know it. And would we consider this one of your more? successful first days? No, don't answer that. Fieldwork that year was in Princess Elizabeth Land. Yep. Which, just for the record, is in... Antarctica. East Antarctica, to be precise, one of the flattest, most accessible parts of the continent. And why did we want to go to this lovely place? Well, um, they call it the Robinson site. They found it a few years earlier, buried under the ice, global warming and all, the remains of Anne Sarith. That's one of the great Harbinger cities.

Constructed about 4,000 years BC, according to the carbon testing. It was buried under nearly... Whoa, whoa, whoa, what is this? What are we doing here? What? Oh, come on. You're my lawyer. I'm your client. It's your office, and you're still going to tell me that I can't smoke. Company policy. Apologies. Should I have Erica get you an ashtray?

No. No, don't bother. I'll just... Erung Kun Telka. There. Happy? Oh, shit. Sorry. It's a habit now.

I forget that it's less fun for people now. It's okay. It's... Okay. Where did you send it? Oh, way. Just... Shall we?

Yes. Let's. Um, sorry. We were... Antarctica. Dig site ruins. McAndlas was putting together an expedition. Yeah. They'd been digging it up for a few years, which is really hard when half of the year is freezing darkness. Before sunset, the previous, you know, April, they made a discovery, a crypt or something like a crypt, something at the very bottom of the excavation. McAndlis wanted to go check it out.

And you got to go? And I got to go. But not Ms. Stirling. But not Ms. Stirling. And I presume that's where it happened? Right. December 15th, 2025. The world continues to reel after last night's announcement.

What was supposed to be a simple archaeological expedition to the Australian sector of Antarctica may instead be remembered as a turning point in Western civilization, following contact with the object now known as Article Zero. Mild-mannered graduate student Adam Blackwell has been given the ability to freely relocate matter at will. I don't think the Times actually called me mild-mannered. No, that was just me having a bit of fun. You went to the South Pole, found a thing, and suddenly you can do magic.

Am I getting that right? Not just anything. This thing. Article Zero, a harbinger ring of magic. But still, field trip, ring, boom, magic. That's the broad strokes of the thing. What happened when you got back to America? What happened after you got superpowers?

Oh, they're not superpowers. I came home, spent weeks going through tests, until finally they were satisfied. I really could do magic. And after they let you go? I went back to a little thing called My Life, finished my dissertation. I graduated in spring, started teaching at Sinclair in the fall. Is that usual? To get hired that fast? No. I was an exceptionally strong student. I had a good

relationship with the head of the department, and news had just broken out that I could do fucking magic. Having me as an adjunct was the best and last ad Sinclair would ever need to run. So they had me as an adjunct. That first fall semester, you took over one of the survey classes. Introduction to a Harbinger Linguistics. Catchy title. Was it popular? Last time they'd run it, there were four people in the class.

That fall, after they saw the enrollment forms, they moved me over to Sumter Hall. That's where they run movies on the weekends. It seats just shy of 350. You taught a 350-person class on the mechanics of dead languages from 6,000 years ago? No, no, no, no. The class was 450. If you didn't get there early, it was standing room only. Sinclair University, September 26.

Now the name Harbingers is what is known as a secondary observer exonym. With some ancient cultures, we have some record of what they call themselves. Failing that, we can usually at least call people by the region they inhabited. These people lived in the Indus Valley, so let's take a wild leap and call them the Indus. Not saying that's a good practice, but it is a common practice. Now with the Harbingers, you run into problems. We haven't found any records yet that point to what they call themselves. And as for geography, sites containing written records of the Harbinger's languages

have been found in Atacama in South America, in remote islands in the south of Oceania, and most recently, in rural Ireland. They seem to mostly exist to make historians' lives difficult. It was actually one of the great mysteries of the age of exploration. People would sail from place to place and find these ancient objects with languages that weren't the one spoken by the locals. Now imagine, you're a 17th century Irish sailor. You leave your little village where old man MacDonald found those spooky rocks with the strange carvens. You sail halfway around the world, and what do you find?

More old spooky rocks with the same. weird language nobody understands. Can you even imagine what that must have been like? In any case, they kept finding these really old artifacts all over the world, almost like this really old culture had been around before anyone else got their act together. That's where the name came from, harbingers, ones who came before. Now, it wasn't until the age of Antarctic exploration began in earnest that the real ruins of what is now known as the Harbinger Empire were discovered. But by then, the name it stuck, so what are you going to do? Now, I did say Harbinger languages in the plural. The modern theory is that these are actually

contemporary languages. One was used for day-to-day activities, your regular, please pass the salt sort of things. The other one was there, well, sacred is. is a loaded word, but they're ritualistic language. It was only used for rites and special activities. For a long time, archaeologists referred to these as the day tongue and the night tongue. But a more accurate translation would be the language of the sun and the language of the stars. And needless to say, there's a lot more that the Harbingers wrote in the language of the sun, so we know comparatively little about how the language of the stars were.

Okay, this, we've only got a few minutes left, so we'll call this good for the day rather than diving into a whole of topic. Does anyone have any questions? Yep. Any questions that don't have to do with my unusual abilities? Yeah. All right, everyone, I need you all to understand. This is a serious class, okay? I take the academic study of Harbinger languages seriously, and I take the academic study of Harbinger languages seriously, and I'm not.

languages seriously, and I expect you all to do the same. Anything else that I can do? That's not really what we're here for. Okay? Which is why we are only going to do this once, okay? Okay, okay, just a quick demonstration, and then we're done. All right. Folks in the front row, anyone have a quarter. You do? Okay, great. Thank you very much. Okay, just so we know, that I am not pulling a fast one on you. I am going to take this marker and put an A on one side of the coin and a star on the other side. Okay? Now, for most of human civilization, if we wanted to transport an object from here to there, we had to expend energy to move it across space, whether it was by carrying it ourselves or by using a burst of kinetic energy to set it in motion

on its own. What I can do is transport matter from A to B without crossing the intermediary space. Okay, everybody ready? I think we're gonna hear it more than see it with something this small. So shush, shush, shush, shush. Here we go. Three, two, Perun Laro Biorakata. Okay, let's see. Where did it land? From the sound, I think it was around the second to last row, maybe? Does anybody... Yeah? You?

You got it? And it's got the A and the star, yeah? Yeah. Well, there you go. From A to B in an instant. Now, now, how did I do that? Part of it

is just mental focus. Part of it is the words. This, it seems, is what the language of the stars actually was, the harbinger's way of channeling this and part of it is the part we don't understand yet. I found this ring in a very old, very remote part of the world. And as long as I'm wearing it, well, it seems to let me do that.

And it really seems like it takes all three, so in case the course catalog didn't make it clear, learning the words won't let you move things across space. Not on its own. on its own. Could you do something bigger? What was that? Could I transport something bigger? Bigger like what?

A person. A person? Well, uh, a person is tricky because what is a person? Is a person one thing or many? Like, what if I transported you to the middle of the quad and you went, but your... But your clothes didn't. Yeah, that's not what we want. I have to be very precise with the language if I want to do it right.

All right, that's time. Time was, ooh, it's a minute or two ago, actually. Please read chapters three and four of the Warner, and I will see you all here on Thursday. The Harbingers will be back after these messages. And now, back to The Harbingers. Sinclair University, 2026, 10 minutes later. That wasn't too bad.

One session down, 31. No. What did you stop yourself from saying? Well, well, well, Amy Sterling. Adam Blackwell. It's good to see you. You too, Amy. Did you watch? I snuck in the back about five minutes in. So, what did you stop yourself from saying? Come on. At the end, when they asked you about teleporting a person, you bit down on something. You said, what if you go, but your clothes don't.

What did you almost say? I almost said, what if you went, but your skin didn't. Ah, lively. I thought it's going to be a whole thing. It's their first day. I didn't want to freak them out. Didn't want to put too much of the fear of you in them. Oh, very funny, Amy.

So what brings you around these parts? They said you transferred. They said the truth. Took my business to Columbia, the big apple, greener pastures and all that. And are they actually greener? Eh, who knows? Kind of hard to tell with all the concrete. I'm just here to handle some paperwork and take some meetings.

I'm flying back tomorrow, but I realized I hadn't seen you since... Ah, sure. Then I couldn't resist poking my head. in here, seeing how your class was going. How did I do? Any notes? It was fine. Your fourth slide had some photos of the stuff they dug up at the rhyme, and that's still not verified. Oh, damn it. I'll take care of that. Anything else? What? What else? You're not really here to fill out paperwork, are you, Amy?

I just... I had to see it. I had to see it with my own two eyes. You can do fucking magic, and you are... You are lecturing about carvings in goddamn rocks. Yes, Amy, I am. I cannot believe that you are lecturing about carvings. And what should I be doing? Hmm?

Instead of being here, where am I supposed to be right now, Amy? Or what? Am I not doing enough with my platform for you? We are 54 days away from the mid-bed. term elections, Dr. Blackwell, which political party do you support? Okay. It's nice of you to drop by, Amy. I enjoy our little talks. It's just, I... Fuck! I don't know what you should be doing.

But dude, you can do magic. Literally the only thing that's a wrong answer to the question, what do you do if you get magic powers, is exactly the same fucking thing you would be doing if you didn't get the goddamn magic powers. All right, Amy. Jamie, this has been fun. Let's get together again the next time one of us develops magical abilities. In the meantime, have a good time at Columbia,

where you'll also be looking at carvings of rocks. You are such an asshole, Adam. No one. No one has ever changed the world by sitting in an ivory tower. Magic is wasted on you. And yet, I am the only one that can do it. It really is a shame. you didn't get to come on that expedition, Amy.

What could have been? Right? She has a point, you know. Oh, she very much does not. She does, though. Aren't you my lawyer? What, what do you, what, a point about what? A point about how nobody has ever changed the world by hiding in the ivory tower of intelligence. Oh, for God!

Fritz-Hobber! You know the story? Excuse me? Okay. Fritz-Hobber. See, a lot of people have this mistake. mistaken idea that the apocalypse is something we've only had to worry about in recent years. But no. Actually, people have had concerns, very valid concerns about the world coming to an end

at practically every point in human existence. In the 1900s, you know what was at the top of the list of global concerns? Starvation. The world had reached an absolutely massive population, one and a half billion people, and we could not produce enough food to feed them. The problem was our crops. They took up too much nitrogen in the soil, and it took too long to replenish it. So it was estimated that over the course of the following 20 agonizing years, two-thirds of the world would starve to death. Ah, but see, there was this guy. German chemist called Fritz-Hobber, big thinker, real kind of ivory tower guy. He locked himself in his lab and figured out a way to make ammonia. You might be familiar with it. It practically extracts

nitrogen from the air and is used to grow more than three-quarters of the goddamn crops in the world today. Bread from the air. That's what they called it in the newspapers. Bread from the air. It was seen as a miracle. And so, thanks to Mr. Hobber, the world didn't starve, and we now have nine billion humans. Over half of what we ate in the 20th century was thanks to his discoveries. And when we try to calculate which individual human beings are directly responsible for saving the most human lives, Fritz-Hobber is at the top of that list. So don't ever tell me that you can't change the world by taking time to figure your shit out. Okay. Is it my turn now?

Great. Dr. Blackwell, could you do me a favor? Could you say a bit about Fritz-Hobber's work after 1912? What? Fritz-Hobber. This man, who you clearly think so highly of, 1913 and onwards, what did he get up to? He became involved in World War I. He invented the chlorine gas that the German army used against the Allies, and he personally oversaw much of its deployment.

Which is why he is often called... The father of chemical warfare. And after World War I, any other major contributions to European history? Dr. Blackwell? He developed a gas. A pesticide gas, which had a warning scent. after his death, it was discovered and reformulated, so it no longer had that warning sent. And what was it called? Before and after the reformulation.

Zyclon A and Zyclon B. I need you to stop doing that. You need me to stop doing what? Answering your questions? Losing your temper and going on a three-minute screed about the achievements of a German war criminal. Wait, but look, he was involved in monster's things. Oh, really? doesn't it? We're doubling down on the merits of, what was it,

the father of chemical warfare? This is going to be a very hard process, you know. If you're going to get through it, I need you to be able to not get baited into saying or doing something stupid. That, Hmm. That won't be a problem.

Won't it? What happened on August 16th, 2028? Well, that's... Dr. Blackwell. What happened? I was here in New York. I'd been asked to speak at an event at the UN. New York City, 2028.

Thank you. Keep the change. Well, well, well. Look who actually made it off campus for once. Oh, good. You're here. And this has been such a pleasant day so far. Is that any way to say hello to a dear old friend, Dr. Blackwell? Hello, Amy. How inevitable to see you.

That's more like it. Hello, Adam. What are you doing here? Same thing you are. Loading up on caffeine and then walking over to today's event. You're also speaking at the U.S. I am. And nobody told me. No. Which I'm guessing is thanks to...

It is. Thanks for that. I like the hair, by the way. Is that part of the brand now? Something like that. I thought you liked the shaved head look. Well, I had awful taste back when I was still a grad student. So, how you been? How's the tour?

Tours on hold for a bit. I'm doing some events with the campaign. Oh, yes, I saw your endorsement video. And I can't help but notice that I haven't seen yours. May I ask what the fuck is taking you so long? Don't tell me you actually want Walker to get reelected. I keep telling you, Amy, I'm just a private seat. citizen. I don't see how it's my place to tell anyone which way they should vote.

Oh my God. Sometimes I forget just how full of shit you are. And then it's like, oh right, he's totally full of shit. I'm doing well, by the way. His translation work on the materials from the Rhyman Expedition... I really couldn't give less of a shit, Adam. Now, come on. Are you going to do this thing or what? You know, Amy, you can say that you don't care all you want, but unfortunately for you, I know you. I know how much you love this stuff. The translation. the discovery. I know how curious you must be. What the fuck has he been doing? Cooped up in there all these years? What is he capable of now? Oh, it's so cute the way you flatter yourself.

Oh, if you think that's cute. All right. Mr. Special, you really want me to believe you're not just doing coin tricks like some birthday party magician. Let's see it. No, come on. Doctor, you want me to believe you can do something that's worth my time? Let's see it. it. Impress a girl. You made my coffee cup disappear. Yes, I did. But didn't make my coffee go with it. No, I did not.

So now, there is quite a bit of nitro-cold brew all over my clothes. You are a child. Come on, Amy. This is an important event. Don't want to be late. You are still an asshole, Adam Blackwell. How did you put my coffee cup anyway? How long did it take before someone finally found this stupid coffee cup? Six weeks, give or take.

Mm-hmm. And it was this photograph that did it, yes? That's the one. Yep. Just for the record, could you please verbally describe it? It is a photo taken by the experience. Extremely large telescope array of the Sea of Tranquility. Which is a part of...

The moon. And about five meters to the left of the lunar landing site, there is now a coffee cup. The moon. You put a cup of coffee on the moon because your ex-girlfriend double dog dared you do. Miss Skinner, this is all... My relationship with Ms. Sterling is very particular.

Do you do it? Okay, okay, okay. What you need to understand is... You say that a lot, you know. What you need to understand is this. What you need to understand is that you are very worried about how you are seen. I'm going to help you figure this all out, but I need you to let me help you. Okay? That is all for today. Really? The... This is plenty for one day. And I have another interview to conduct in a little while. We can pick up this fun tomorrow morning, bright and early.

Right. Well, I'll see you tomorrow, then. $1,800 an hour. That's how much I'm being paid to get you across the river. Okay. Thank you, Ms. Skinner. And... While I will not have you smoking anywhere in my offices,

you'll find I'm less particular about what happens on the balcony on the east side of the building. Sure. You got it. Day one down. Just another five million more of these to go. Those things are going to kill you, you know. Unless you're so good now that you can just teleport the cancer straight out of your lungs. I don't think I'm quite there yet. that case, you might want to quit while you're behind. I'll take it under advisement. Mr. Ling?

Dr. Blackwell? I thought your residency didn't end until the 14th. Oh, all the shows are canceled for a bit. You know, it's hard to compete with the... Everything? With the everything. I keep thinking I'm going to see it. You know? Every time I look up, I know it's too.

small and too far away, but I keep thinking it'll be there, staring back at me. Yeah, me too. You doing okay? Not exactly what I had in mind for this year. No? No. I thought there'd be more books. I thought I'd read more this year. more books and less everything

you read mcandless's new book yeah i got an advanced copy i can't believe that old fucker is trying to say that i was not a good student her proposals were never specific enough my ass well can you blame them you are the one that got away damn right i am how to go in there oh i pretty much just spent the last couple of

hours getting bitch slapped. It was fine. And how are you feeling? Tired. Tired and guilty. Don't say that. It isn't over yet. It's barely even gotten started. That's not what I meant, Amy. I think this is usually the point in the conversation where you yell at me and tell me I'm an asshole. You are an asshole, Adam Blackwell. But for all our sakes, I hope it turns out you're an asshole who knew what he was doing. Ms. Sterling, Ms. Skinner's ready for you. I got a... Yeah. Duty calls. Good luck. Yeah. See you around, Adam. All right. Ready to get started? This is Claudia Skinner, Case MGR 831. This is information prep session. Number two, it is November 7, 2030.

Miss Sterling, would you please state your full name and the capacity in which you have become known as a public figure? This is Amelia Dorothy Sterling, and I perform under the name The Silver Witch. For three years now, I have been able to manifest supernatural abilities. I am the second documented person in the world capable of performing magic. Thank you. Ms. Stirling, do you know what I would like to talk to you about? Well, if I had to take a guess, I'd say maybe it's about how I started a chain of events that resulted in the most powerful man in the world, teleporting the city of Boston to the moon. I mean, it's either that or Mojito recipes.

No, you want to talk about the Boston thing. Please. Okay. Where would you like to begin? This has been The Harbingers, created by Gabriel Urbino. Come back tomorrow for Episode 2, The Season of the Witch. Today's episode was written by Gabriel Urbino. It was directed and sound designed by Jeffrey Nils Gardner.

It featured the voices of Andres Enriquez as Adam Blackwell, Lauren Grace Thompson, as Amy Sterling. Emmy Bean as Claudia Skinner and Kristen D. Mercurio as Erica Pfeiffer. Today's episode also featured the voice of Olivia Love Hadleston. Our original music was composed by Nicholas Spadari. Recording engineering and dialogue editing was by J. Wu. Our original art was created by Cassie J. Allen. The executive producer for this series is Eleanor Hyde.

We'd like to give a special thanks to Joshua K. K. Harris, Felix, Krista da Agostino, and Olivia Love Hadlestead for their work on the development of the series and its original pilot episode. You can learn more about the show, see a timeline of the events of our story, and become a supporting member at audacious machinecreative.com. This is an audacious machine creative production. Thank you for listening. Today's history tidbit, on October 14th, 1998, Australian archaeologists first discovered the ruins of Anne Sarith.