Might Delete Later - Ep 4: Jamie Windust

Episode Date: June 18, 2020

Model, activist, actor and writer Jamie Windust joins us for a social media shakedown this week. And they’re probably going to be blocked by Lewis Capaldi.👉🏼Remember you can find all posts discussed on Instagram @mightdeletelaterpod and we're on twitter too @mightdeletepod.Follow Jamie Windust on Instagram @jamie_windust and Twitter @jamie_windustFollow Gina on Instagram @ginamartin and Twitter @ginamartinukFollowing Stevie on Instagram @5tevieM and Twitter @5tevieMWant to help us make more episodes? Support Might Delete Later at https://supporter.acast.com/mightdeletelaterHosted by Gina Martin and Stevie Martin.Photo by Joe Magowan.Artwork by Zoe Harrison.Recorded by Ben Williams.Edited by Clarissa Maycock.Recorded at The Court. Produced by Plosive Productions.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/mightdeletelater. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do you love Mike Delete Later? I bloody hope you do. You can support our show by using the new ACS supporter feature. It's up to you how much you give and there is no regular commitment. Just smash that link in the show description and support us now so we can keep making this podcast. Thank you. I'm Gina and I'm Steve A. And welcome to Mike Delete Later, the show where we scrutinize the social media feeds of people we like

and we look at their best, worsts, and firsts posts. Yeses. We're also sisters. We have very, very, I'd say, very opposing views on social media, which is that I really don't think it's nice. And that I really love it. You're very good at it as well. Thank you.

This week we have Jamie Windust as our guest. They're a model activist and editor. They also founded Fruitcake magazine, which is an award-winning, LGBTQIA magazine focusing on queer excellence. chef's kiss. Jamie has used social media as a sort of a diary for a long time, which was interesting to talk about. And they also talked about how kind of working for brands

becomes a harder job when you're trans and non-binary, which I found very interesting. It was interesting. Jamie was very, very honest. And I just know, I think it's a really lovely episode. They're very, very funny as well. Yeah, they are. We recorded most of this podcast, including this episode before,

lockdown, you know, before it got weird. Apart from this intro, which is very much not recorded before lockdown. Yes. So on the plus of it, the episodes sound like they're in a studio, which they were. But you may notice that it was recorded beforehand. But, you know, this potty is about looking at your relationship with social media. So really, it couldn't be more relevant. So relevant.

Do follow us on at Might Delete Later pod on Instagram. So you can see all the posts that Jamie refers to in their episode. and just like have a really great week, you know? Oh. Hi, Jaby. Thanks for joining us. Whoa, Jamie. Hi.

Yes, I am here. Thank you for having me. We're at that very close. I don't know why I just can't look at either of you. No, because you'd be looking. We'd be snogging. And we'd be looked at me that close. Yeah, we're all facing very much forwards.

But we're in a beautiful. beautiful room that we're basically in the court. We are the members club on Kingley Street. We've been donated a beautiful room. Thank you. I had my... Thank you, Henry Conway. Thank you, Henry Conway.

I had my law change party here, and it was really fun. We were all at that. They always show up for us. So if you're fancying a little bea-due drink somewhere, then look into the court. Oh my God, do. The staff are very good.

Just like a silence out of us. To go into the court. Temting addition to play. Come to the court. Too much. So, to start us off, Stevie Martin My big sister

My Love My Life What is the thing You would delete this week Okay I've immediately forgotten Okay I would delete Okay

Now Do we call them I'm an old woman Do we call them like I want to say bum bags But they're not Are they? Yeah

Are they called bum bags A fanny pack Fanny pack Yeah yeah Bum bag Yeah It's a bum bag They're like

If I want into AIS Or any retailer That'll be Okay fine I want to delete Because I can't wear them Because I bought one And

when I put it on, I look like I'm hiking. Yes. I can't wear them in like a fun, cool way. I'm essentially, I think what I'm really deleting is being old. And the concept of time passing. That's good. Time. Easily done.

Strong. I feel the same way about mesh, but we can, maybe that can be. I thought you're going to say men then. I was like, yeah, same. Men, didn't delete every man. No. No, we'd never. But I'm, but I'll sort of some, some.

I delete some, just like I delete some. facets of aging. Oh my God, I'm with you. I'm with you. Like, I couldn't do a podcast if I was 22. Because when I was 22 at the age of Jamie, I, like, and I had no self-confidence.

Yeah. I was like, I was the same. I had nothing to say at that point. Yeah. I still have nothing to say at this point. No, you definitely do that. So it tells that now. I'm going to interview you.

Rubbish. What would you delete, Gina? I think I would delete Radox bath stuff. That's a very brand specific. Yes. Tell us for why. I think I would delete bad stuff.

No, I think I'd delete Radox bad stuff. Look, back yourself. The reason for being is that every time I use it, I think it's spicier than I want. And also, it doesn't ever give me enough bubbles. Like, when I was a kid, I thought that bubble baths would be like five feet high and you'd be like, I can't see mom and like, oh, look it out. Because you were small. That was the difference.

You were very small, so the bubbles are very big. And we all know you love a bubble. Yeah, but that's because I have to work so hard for it. I have a... You did an Instagram stories about how to get a bubbly bath and I'm like, while she's running out of ideas. No, no, no. Next campaign.

That's the post I'm most proud of. Whenever I make a bath, I think of Gina and that's the best way. Yeah, me too. Do you? Do you flap with your hand to like really early on just to get it all go in? Yeah, there's a real thing to it. And I think that's because when I was a kid, yeah, I really, really wanted to have big bubbles, never got them. And whenever you use Radox, I just feel like that's really, really disappointing.

Well, okay, I apologize for any Radox fans. They're not sponsoring this episode of the podcast. Well, that's not a surprise. Because of you've absolutely. dragged them. Jamie, what would you like to delete this week? I'm deleting Lewis Capaldi. Wow.

Tell me for why. I just cannot stand him. Oh my God, wow. This is such a bold move in this cultural moment. For no reason. Oh, so you're aware that it's rational. Yeah, well, it's kind of rational. You know, like, when people think they're, like, kooky.

Oh, like, yeah, overly aware. Because they make like a double chin. Understood, yeah. Me, yeah, I do that, yeah. Yeah, but you're funny when you do it. Yeah, see, funny. Funny. He's doing it now.

Like, his adverts on the tube, not funny. His... I just don't... Everyone else has been like, prawns, the ocean, when it's not warm. And you're like, a specific person. A full man. A full man. A full man.

Full living man. I don't know. Also, I think he's just kind of... He's just straight culture, isn't he? Yeah. No offense. This is true. This is true.

Yeah, he is. And he's like, I mean, I love him. I don't know. I don't know. I love him. I think he's hilarious. I love him because I'm like, he's so normal and love, that's why you don't like him.

That's that reaction. But yeah, I think actually I can understand that, yeah, he is getting a bit like, I think he's going to become a character of himself, possibly. I think it's very difficult to function and operate within the public eye without having the backlash, like the Jennifer Lawrence backlash,

where everyone was like, she's so fun and normal and now everyone's like, and she didn't do anything different. She's just in films, which is her job. Yeah. And then that you're told to, like, be as fun as possible in interviews. So she was. And then everyone was like, why are you being fun? Yeah, be less fun. And then she's like disappeared from the public eye quite a lot now.

She doesn't really go to many awards. I'm not saying you wrong. All I'm saying is yeah, I think it is interesting, isn't it? Yeah, how we feel so strongly about certain people. There's like no reason that obviously if I saw him, I wouldn't be like, I hate you. I actually said once on a podcast, I want to delete you. I would. You'd actually be really nice. You'd be like, oh, yeah, you're a successful. And he's probably really nice guy, but he just rubs you up the wrong way. I have this with a certain very, very famous female singer

I absolutely, I won't say I absolutely can't stand her. But I would never say who, just because I'm like, nah, I can't be asked. But some people that you just feel like, nah, they're not for me, and that's fine. I'd not be Lady Gaga. It's not Lady Gaga. I'm not an idiot. I've seen a star as born.

Jesus Christ. But so let's like to kick things off, just to ease things in. Oh, okay. What would you say characterises your relationship with social media? Do you like it? Do you hate it? Are you somewhere in between? What's your vibe with it? I have a weird relationship with it. Cool, thanks.

That's it. Yeah, that's great. Bye. Bye. Everyone else have you in. Thanks, the call. It's an interesting one because it's grown into something that it still has the essence of why I started it. So like I used to use it as a diary. Oh, cool. It's Instagram.

Yeah, Instagram is a kind of diary. But now I've kind of feel like there is a weird, a weirdness to it that's kind of not, it's not manufactured, but I have to kind of, when it becomes a business tool, it slightly gets a bit skewed. Yeah. Or you can still say what you want to say,

but you have to be a bit more careful, which is fine. But I guess if you have a diary, like an actual written diary, and then someone was like, and now all of these people are going to read your diary. Oh, yeah. And also they're going to have comments on it. There will be comments.

And now, you know, your diary is sponsored. And then you're like, well, I don't know. I know what I did today, but like, what should I do with Ray Dox? Yeah. Whatever. It is interesting, though, because it does, I can see why you feel like that. Because we're in, we've been in a kind of similar position in terms of growth. Yeah.

We are totally different people. We have totally different accounts. It's a very quick for you, Jamie. I, social media for me was like normal growth. And then I've started kind of working. as myself, weird. I'd say about 18 months ago. Right.

So it kind of, in that space, it's grown quite a lot. But I remember at school, people used to be like, oh my God, Jamie's got like 600 followers. Yeah. And that was... When I got 11 likes, I shit myself. Do you remember when it went from normal numbers to doubles? I was like, the names aren't there.

It's a number now. Yeah, that was good. Move aside, everyone. Yeah, literally. But I think, yeah, there has been growth, and I kind of find it weird. do you deal with people DMing you commenting you asking things with you

do people yeah and in the nicest way possible the delete all this is what I said before and I almost was like didn't say it on what is delete all explain Jamie I don't need it no one asks me anything no so it's like if people it's people who don't follow you if they message you it goes into your like requests

oh god yeah yeah so then I often get lots of messages in the requests. Some are very nice. Some are not nice. Some are like, hey, can you do this big job for free? And I know I'll just delete them all. Great. In a very, I remember the first time I did it. I felt like I slapped a swan or something. I was like, this is so horrible. That's such a good example of a thing to do that's bad. I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry everyone, but now I literally don't feel bad. See, I have just got to that stage for the first time. I deleted all. I actually had loads in my inbox for like six months and I did the delete all thing.

I felt the same I felt awful, but I think it's really good you're doing that. Because you can't, you just can't physically respond to that many people and also take on that much emotional labor. And you're like, also doing, you're putting out hundreds of pieces of stuff out for every week as well. Yeah, exactly. And like, even if the messages, because like some messages in there are nice. And I do feel bad when I say goodbye to the nice messages. But there's only so much, thank you. I can, I don't know what, I don't really like responding to people that just reply, like, loved this.

I don't think they're even respecting, like, they're not expecting a reply. No, they're just telling you. Like, you know, when people just comment, like, an emoji on something, you can't be like, thank you for that emoji. Like, cool, like, it's fair. And you see it. And it makes you feel nice. And, like, I mean, when I send stuff to people and I say, like, you know,

I don't actually do that a lot, but I think I used to do that a lot. I used to be like, love you or like, I love what you do, blah, blah. I sort of didn't expect a response. I just sort of expected them to see it and go, oh, that's nice. That's kind of why I did it. I didn't do it to get a response. It's like cheerleading rather than needing something. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, but it is interesting how because you've grown a lot in the past 18 months and I've grown in the same time you have. I mean, physically and online. And it does turn into a slightly, I think it feels almost like yours, right? And then it kind of becomes a slightly less yours as it grows. Do you feel like that? Yeah, massively.

There's lots of, especially when you start doing like sponsored stuff or ad-y stuff, like there's a lot of do's and don'ts. And what I find really weird is when they're like, the timings of it. You know, like, when it's like, you need to post this at this time on this day. Oh, like you get an actual time of day. Sometimes, yeah, they'll be like, you need to do it now. And I'm like, oh, this is really weird, but fine, sure. Yeah, like, well, that doesn't fit in for me now, but I guess, yeah.

But I now have, I treat Instagram as very much a work tool. So when I'm working, so like traditional nine to fives, I delete it. And then I download it in the evenings. And then before I go to bed, I delete it again. It's a lot of admon. I've started doing. It is a bit annoying, but yeah. But it's not that bad to read download it.

Like it takes a second. And it's like, I do the same at 6pm. I've started deleting it at night so I can just have my evenings without it. Yeah. I also think a lot of people who work in the spaces that you guys work in obviously know how things like ads and sponsored stuff works. But people who don't, it's quite fascinating in terms of like, do you find it sometimes quite difficult to make hashtag ad appear like organic and normal and fine?

And it's just me. Or is it just like? It doesn't matter because I'm selling something and that's fine that my followers know that I'm selling something. Last year I had a massive situation where I just felt like shame and not shame but like guilt for doing it. I was like I feel really guilty because it's I don't know. It's kind of seen as quite crass sometimes to do our content or quite basic. But I think going to back to the question, I don't feel bad trying to align a message because I just make sure I choose the right people to work. Yeah. Yeah.

I think people will be, not to sound twatish, but with us, like, people will be surprised the amount of things we actually say no to. Oh, yeah, a lot. But if we said yes to everything, our calendars and our content would be ad-y. Yeah, because if you said yes to everything, you would be saying yes to so many things because we know right now that, like, everyone wants to jump on activists and campaigners. They don't care about what we're actually working for. They just, they need to be associated with that, I find, in my world.

Do you find that in yours too? Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's really interesting because, like, I think me and you, Gina, no offense. It's totally fine. Like, people are surprised. Definitely are with me. Like, when, so, like, for example, a big brand will ask me to do something

and I will obviously have, like, a message or a sway. Or, like, for example, with, like, 90% of the brands that I do add content with, I also consult with in some other way to make sure that they change what they're doing or just to continue that conversation of education. So it's not just like, Instagram focused. Yeah, because they're not just hiring an influencer. Yeah, exactly.

And it's really interesting to see who is reciprocate that and who actually is receptive to actually wanting to change and who just wants you to post... What they want you to post. What they want to post and then be like, see you. Yeah, it's really, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I don't think people fully understand how the campaigner activist thing, whatever space that is,

that you're in transforms roles. Like, it transforms being an influencer because it means you will always be having conversations that probably other people aren't. It kind of, I think what you do as well, as you kind of go against the grain by dint of what you do. So when you have to work with the industry, it's always going to be a bit of attention.

And I think brands that are the ones who are going to go really far because they understand. Yeah, I've worked with amazing brands, like, that I'd never thought I would, like, I'd work with ag, quite a lot. And if you were to tell me, no offense, I'd 10 years ago that I'd be working with, I would have slapped you.

Like the swan. But they have, they were honestly, Like the most aware people to work with because they literally were like, we're going to let you do everything. And you tell us what to do because you know more about this world than we do. Which is why they're working with you because they don't know. Yeah. And then they're like, oh yeah, but not that though, because that's too hard.

I don't get it. Yeah, which is so rare to find a brand that will get it. That's really good. So we're going to go through your three posts. Delish. So should we start with, first. the first post. Yes. Let's start with your first ever post

on Instagram. Oh my god Jamie's got it. Yeah it's really cute. This is the actual one. Please go on at might delete later post. Is that the actual one? Because it's a picture of butternut squash with a face on it. Is that correct? Please, yeah, we've put up all of Jamie's posts

on our Instagram. Oh my God, the caption is so pure. Read out the caption. I tried to make a vegetable pal. Paha. Hashtag maranda. Hashtag smile. I tried to make a vegter pal. From 2013. Vegeterpal. Right near Valentine's day.

How old are you 2013? Um... Wait, you're 22 now? So I was born in 97, so that's... Oh my God, I want to die, one. 14? None of us are... I remember 97.

Okay. No, 16. Oh, that's very embarrassing. So you're 16 and you're making little vegetable pals. Look, that is so cute. What was the vegetable for? Do you remember what you were doing? Yes, so...

Have you watched Miranda? Yeah. I haven't watched it. So like, she does this thing where she stays in and just draws on vegetables on vegetables. vegetables and then has lots of friends with the wall. I mean, that's adorable. That's actually like the cutest thing ever. And, um...

So your... So extremely has changed quite a bit. I was going to say that sort of now. I mean, this kind of looks like me now. I wasn't going to say anything. Beamed like a butternut squash. And then I chose this one as well. There's another one because it's the first, like, actual picture of me. Yeah.

In a beanie. And a little woolen hat. A little fringe. Actually, I used to talk, I used to have a pen pal. on from Instagram and she sent this to me for Christmas. Oh, that's so cute. And no caption, weirdly there. Just showing the world who you are.

But three comments. God, I wonder what they say. And 16 likes, everybody. Thank you very much. And no, it's a makeup free selfie. A makeup free selfie. It's so cute. I have my original ginger hair.

I have braces on, but you can't see them. So when you started using Instagram, like, what, did you know why you were using it? What did you want to get out of it? Did you have any ideas about what you wanted to get out of it? Or you just like posting stuff like we all were being like, I don't really know what I'm doing. So at 16, I just, I was just about to start sick form.

And my fashion was taking new heights. And I basically used to do that thing where you do like a annoying grid on Instagram and put like the worst filter on it. And I just show my outfit every day. And then write like a literal essay underneath. Like, hi everyone. So I had a great day today. I had French. You were fashion blogging.

Yeah. Micro blogging. Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. And then I'd be like, and then I went to a coffee shop. and I had a coffee on my own and it was really fun and then I'd be like, bye, see tomorrow.

Oh my God. Oh my God. You would sign them off with bye. Yeah, let's see you. Bye from Jamie. Come back tomorrow. So it literally was a diary like you say it. And because I thought you meant like a visual diary,

but it literally was like a diary. Yeah, really, because I had no friends. That's so cute though. Dear diary, that's so crazy. And I guess it's, how do you feel about it now? Do you feel like, I know so much has changed for you and like, you know, oh God, your life has exploded, but do you feel like that joy's kind of gone now? I feel like I do get that same kind of joy.

However, yeah, there are lots of kind of situations now where I feel like, because it's got to a point where so many people are reading your diary. I'm reading it. And also, like, the amount of, I went through who sees my stories the other day. And I was just like, who are these? That is weird. No, but it's weird. It's an inhuman thing to see.

Well, do you find stories are a little bit more, because stories are a little bit more free because they disappear. Whereas main grid seems to be like, serious main grid business. Yeah. And then stories for me feel a bit like I still use it a bit like a diary. In fact, I'll just be doing something. I'm like, I've just been stuck. I did a story the other day that was just like, I've just been sat on my coat for a bit.

Like, brilliant. That's why it's so, so uninteresting. But then like, I got quite like high engagement considering the amount of followers I got. Do you know what? Yeah. So people were really into this coat business. Okay. It's so odd.

But you can, you can, do you kind of experiment a little bit more in stories? Yeah, like one thing that I remember I did. for like, similar to the coat, it's just for fun for no reason. When I would go to a hotel or anywhere. Oh my God, that was when I first saw any of your star.

I would do like a tour of the room. No. This is why I started following them. It was like two years ago. It's so good. And I'd be like, it'd be like the most it'd be like a travel lodge.

It's like, or any other chain. And I would just be like, look, there's a kettle. Oh my God, there's a safe. The safe was always very interesting. Yeah, but you used to just scream the whole time.

Oh yeah. Yeah, it'd be so enthusiastic. Then I do the jump on the bed and then that would be it. And now literally, whenever I go anywhere, people are like, are you going to do a hotel story? And I'm like, sure. If I want to? Yeah, if you're going to pay me.

People want it. Yeah. I'm surprised you're not sponsored by all the hotel james. Correct. If anyone's listening. The four seasons would be good. The chateau, Marmont. Maum.

Please. You couldn't know, but that wouldn't work because it would be too nice. It would be like, well, yeah, of course you'd be. scream over that 16 person bed. You'd have to be really unenthusiastic. You'd be like, I guess it's got like a candle-hauer out of someday. That would be way better. Like, what is that? Yeah, that's by me just being upset by everything.

You'd be like, oh, there's only five wine glasses and four bottles of wine. This is so shit. Like, be really upset about it. That'd be good. But like, with this thing that you, everyone can, you can see who's seen your stories. What I find scary about posts is you can't see who's seen it, but you can see what people who have seen it have done. So, like, you can see that, like, 29 people have sent it to someone.

Oh. Yes, I hate that. That freaks me out. I'm like, what are you talking about? It's the saving that stresses me out. Like, I literally get like, some people, like hundreds of people will just save a photo. And I'm like, why? I get more scared of the sending, because I think they're sending it being like, look at this dickhead.

I'm like, 425 people have sent it to the friends instead of my knob. How interesting that that's what you think when you see someone sent it. Whereas when I see someone sent it, I'm like, oh, I bet they thought I was just like, had nice hair or something. Do you have, have, like, little collections of things that you save? like what categories do you have to save things to? Oh, let's look. I've got so many saves. You know what?

It's a very good question for me. They're all of me. So you've just saved loads of those of your own face. Okay, that's... This was actually for you... People I used to go to school with. It's because I like to go back into the archives. And a lot of these are actually pictures

that other people have posted with me. So if I'm like, what the hell am I going to post? I choose... Look, here's an example of the grid. which I've saved and I now know where it is so I can send it to you for the Instagram. Oh, that's so great. It's an awkward of like...

You and you were what? 17? Yeah. Oh my God, so cute. That's a lemon jacket. Pink salt purple loafers. It's actually a really strong. They're on brand.

They're on brand. Now we've seen your first post and we would like to see if you have a post that you're not so proud of. A post you regret. Oh, yes. it's not really as much of a post as kind of like a series of time okay okay um so like as i said last year was the first kind of year that i worked as me and i think i was kind of overwhelmed with

all of the opportunities um and i was very much a people pleaser last year well this time last year i was very much like a yes person yeah so i was just like yeah i'll come to your spoon launch Look, I'm going to, I'd like to go to a spoon launch Yeah, like you're correct, yeah, I'll come Dance class, on stills Yeah I'm there Motorcross, sure

So like, I can't drive But I will have a go I would just say yes to everything Because I was like, I need to be there Get out there, yeah And it just meant that I was I regret that now Because I just had so many burnouts

During like May to August I was just like Why am I here? and then I did kind of like social stuff and social content stuff that I was just like not not happy with and I was thinking I was quite blindsided by because I was like yeah I'll do that oh my god that's amazing yeah and then like you're like oh yeah and like there's certain ones

where like it made sense for me to do it but looking at it now it wasn't like the best for showcasing me as an ally or like I didn't think outside of my own experience I was just quite like yeah that's great I resonate of that you're doing stuff for certain privileged trans people so that's fine and then when that came out lots of people were like this is awful what about all these other people and I was like oh dick moved Jamie uh they pulled the whole thing like wow the brand did yeah that's brilliant they pulled it all they donated my fee like we both agreed to donate my fee to charity and then I had to put out like an apology which I was actually really happy to do because

I don't know. You know when like things online happen that you feel like your little whole world is over. Yeah. You're like, this is the end. It's very narcissistic, but it's also like, it can feel by isolating when you just open your social media and you have like 9,000 people being like you're a dick. That's not narcissistic because we, as humans, it's still, it's like people are in the room doing that.

Like it's still, um, what's the word social exclusion, which we are, as cave people are supposed to fear because if you were excluded from the tribe, you would, die alone with no food. So we're terrified. To be scared of that. And like our brains have also like with social media. That's why it's so hard to deal with sometimes. Regardless of whether you have made a mistake and that is up on you, the reaction is

hard to deal with because I think I always talk about this, but like our brains don't have to deal with that many people coming at us at one time. Yeah. And that is, that's quite overwhelming, especially when you're in a marginalised community. Because you wouldn't get that. You wouldn't like go down the street and have like... 9,000 people chasing you. Yeah.

Or just like, I mean, I do sometimes, but like you wouldn't have like people like commenting to you in person. Yeah. Yeah. It's not the euse. Yeah. And but then your brain can't distinguish between one person. Because I know when like in the past, if I've had a horrible comment from somebody or someone has made me feel bad, I get like, oh God. And then when I get it online, I feel exactly the same.

Yeah. Your brain doesn't know, oh, it's online. So it's anonymous. So it's okay. Don't be worried. Like your brain just reacts because it's being attacked. And it's worried that it will be so. excluded. And also, like, look, we're talking about, like, really, especially being

like non-binary and trans and the person you are as well, like, you have this heightened worry about safety too. So, like, that will affect you in a way that it just doesn't affect other people. Yeah, exactly. Like, a lot of, um, I, I only really realise that in the past six months that actually, like, sharing where you're going to be all the time online and, like, things like that that. Gina doesn't do that either. Never do it. I've, like, after hearing stories and kind of experiences from other people, I was like, okay, we need to really, step up on this and not be as vocal or kind of like set boundaries with what I'm posting and also who's asking me to post things like there needs to be a kind of conversation between

what's realistic for me and what they should expect for me yeah yeah with when you're talking about a brand and whatever that campaign was was pulled it's also sort of partly because whatever brand you're working with they don't have people in their company that can mitigate against you accidentally or misinformedly making a mistake like that. Like, it's like when, you know, back in the day, and it's probably still, I don't know what it's like now, but like the magazine Cosmo did this article about Becky with the good hair. Oh, yeah.

And it was like a white girl called Becky saying about all the good hairstyles she's had. And it was because, like, and I actually know the girl, she's very nice, but there's no one black in that office. So of course, so it's also very, very difficult. it's very much on you. Yes. If you make a mistake, everyone's like,

but you made a mistake? It's like, you made a mistake. It's like, yeah, but everything's on me. That's the problem. Yeah. And the more kind of,

yeah, like it's, it's a lot easier when you're not, from it like, when you're not marginalized like that. Because there's,

there are very few instances where I'm, I'm the spokesperson for every single white woman in the world. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Because what happened was, God help them. It set, it almost set like a precedent that people then thought that, that's what non-binary people think. That's what trans people think and support.

Because you're such a visible non-binary person and there's not a lot of very, very high... And it hasn't been until now because of social media. Yeah, and it's really jarring. That feeds quite nicely into the next one. Which is a picture of a jar. No, I'm joking. You made a jar friend.

Go on. Your next post is one you're proud of. I'm going to... So I've got two, but I'm going to go with... I'm going to go with the TED actually. Yay. Ted. My dear friend Ted, no, it's, this is a weird one because I literally, it's, so this was the post that announced that I was at TED.

But I had just had a meeting with Mariam Pasha, who is the director of TEDx, London Women. And she was like, you can post this now. And I was like, I don't think I can. She was just like, please do. Post it, we need people to come. And I was like, okay, so I was like,

okay, bye, bye, ma, ma, ma, ma, bye. And then went to the loo. So Jamie says, bye, mua, ma, ma, bye. Oh, ma, ma, ma, ma. God, sorry. And just, like, went and sat in the loo for so long that someone was like,

are you okay? And I was like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm trying to post a TED post. I mean, I'm having a big post. Leave me alone. And I just couldn't, I just couldn't do it. Oh, why? I don't know.

I think it's because I was scared, but also it's like when, as soon as you do something like that, there's expectation. I have imposter syndrome, which is kind of manageable. But what my biggest issue with posting like big things is I'm always worried that people are looking like, yeah, but why are you doing? Oh, gosh, the ultimate, yeah. No, it's a very human thing and it's compounded as well for you and the experiences you've had. Like, it's, yeah, it's hard.

Sociality is hard, but it's harder for certain people and it has been. And also like, that, I think, seeing that graphic of like, Ted, London, women with your face on it and your name, it makes it so real. You're like, oh shit, like, because I've looked up to those people

and seen those people and been like, wow, so when you see yourself, you're like, oh, but I'm just chatting me it was a piece of shit, bye, bye, like it's so scary. Yeah, I'll go on stage, I'll wet myself and then I'll leave. That's what I'll do.

Yeah, and also, like, I'd never, like, at that point in time, everything that I was going to do seems very unachievable because I was like, how, how on God's earth am I going to do all of this stuff? Yeah. and like memorize the thing that I've never memorized before.

And you did it? Oh my God, it was so good. Yeah. Me and Sam watched it at her house and cried on my sofa. It was brilliant. You did brilliantly well. Yeah. Check it out.

It is all right. Is it? YouTube it's on. Just YouTube? It's on YouTube or it's the link in my bio? Oh, that's what I was getting at. It's going to change anytime. Well, I'm glad you picked that one.

I'm glad you picked that one. Because it's really like, it's good to be proud of those kind of things, those achievements because it's hard sometimes. It is. It is. So, we're going to now play Follow and Follow Block, which is not Shagamari Kill, but is it? Absolutely not. But it's very much Follow and Follow Block.

Okay, so I have, I have three, but I'm actually going to change one. Is it people that I know? Yeah. Is it people you know? Don't ask me questions. You'll find out of five seconds. No point two seconds. I know who is.

Okay, so follow, unfollow block with these three people. Kenny Ethan Jones Florence Given James A. Gaster. Can we say who these people are? Yeah, Kenny Ethan Jones is a model, a writer, an activist. Florence Given is an artist, an illustrator. We know both Florence and Kenny, and we know that... We know off, James.

I'm literally mortified. Come on, you got play it. Follow, follow block. I'm going to block Kenny. Oh! Okay. Because our friendship and relationship is based off of me taking the piss out of him. and calling him a dick all the time. Ideal.

He'll love that because he's into that kind of thing. It's a banter. Yeah. But you can't reply because you've been blocked. So that's the sort of banter that you're doing. Thank God. Yeah, and he's not single anymore. True, what's the point?

Bye. I'm going to follow Florence because what's the point in having Instagram if you aren't? Very, very strong point. And like her. new hair, it's just too good to not see all the time. True. Oh. And you're going to...

I'm going to unfollow James purely because yesterday I saw him walking down the street, holding hands with a hooman. And I was very upset. But I obviously couldn't show that on my face because he would have seen and it'd been really open. I think that's fair enough then. Look, that is good. Don't tell him.

I mean, it's on the podcast. He doesn't listen to the podcast. Thank you so much, Jamie. It was all right. It was all right. It was more than all right. And for the bits that you didn't see and to see Jamie's pictures that they showed us,

head to the Might Delete Later Instagram channel at Might Delete Later. Poohed. And also, please like and subscribe and go deep into your own grid and send your early post and we'll repost our favourites. It's only fair because you've seen our...

And remember, have a think about your relationship with social media. Don't get too precious about it. Things change, people change. It's meant to be fun. It's your space. But if you do make a mistake and you're feeling a bit worried about it, it's fine. You might as well delete later. Boom.

Bye. Bye. Thank you.