Might Delete Later - Ep 7: Ben Hurst

Episode Date: July 9, 2020

This week, Gina and Stevie talk to TEDX speaker, facilitator at Good Lad Initiative and all round great guy Ben Hurst about stuntin’ for the ’gram, therapy, boundaries and, of course, his three posts.👉🏼Remember you can find all posts discussed on Instagram @mightdeletelaterpod and we're on twitter too @mightdeletepodFollow Ben Hurst on Instagram and Twitter @therealbenhurstFollow Gina on Instagram @ginamartin and Twitter @ginamartinukFollowing Stevie on Instagram @5tevieM and Twitter @5tevieMWant to help us make more episodes? Support Might Delete Later at https://supporter.acast.com/mightdeletelaterHosted by Gina Martin and Stevie Martin.Photo by Joe Magowan.Artwork by Zoe Harrison.Edited by Clarissa Maycock.Recorded at Sony 4th Floor Creative.Produced by Plosive Productions.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/mightdeletelater. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do you love Mike Delete Later? I bloody hope you do. You can support our show by using the new ACS supporter feature. It's up to you how much you give and there is no regular commitment. Just smash that link in the show description and support us now so we can keep making this podcast. Thank you. Well, hey, welcome to Mike DeMitt Later, the show where we scroll back through the timelines of people we really like and ask them about what they first posted, what they worst posted, what they regret, what they love,

what their relationship with social media is like. I'm Gina. I love social media and I wrote the script for this and made Stevie say, Wah! Hey! Thank you for making that. I'm Stevie and I don't like it. I think I don't like social media or the script, which is very cool because each to their own. Sure. This week we had the excellent Ben Hurst on. Ben is the facilitator for the Good Lab Initiative, which is a network that aims to encourage young men to explore their relationship with masculinity

and also focus on positive masculinity instead of toxic masculinity. He's basically the only dude I know who's actually doing the work. Ben is a brilliant speaker. He's very, very funny, and he was very honest. I think it was very refreshing

to see somebody have this such a no-bush attitude towards social media. Yeah, that's true. And he uses it like how he wants and he doesn't really pain over it in a way that maybe I do or you do or business do. I definitely do. Yeah, I found that really helpful to talk to him.

He set some real good boundaries with it too, which felt very healthy to listen to. Yes. Moses' podcast, we should say, was recorded pre-corodavirus, which you may pick up on. But as this is all about living your life online, something, let's be honest, we're doing a lot of right now. We can find it an interesting list one. Listen, that's listen in French. And follow us on at Might Delete Later Pod, so you can see all the posts that Ben's referring to in his episode. This is what happened when we met Ben Hurst.

Hi, Ben. Hello. Hi, Bella. How you doing? Good, thanks. It's real nice to have you. So, what would you like to delete this week, Gina? Okay, me.

I would like to delete toasters. Oh, okay. Because I feel like in their current form, it's almost like someone invented them and then they never made them better. Like, why do all the comments come out of the bottom? for one. The crumbs? Yeah, you know, like you used a toast for six months

and there's come everywhere. That's true. Why can't it just make things perfectly like toasty and brown? Why is it either burn or half done or like... It's like an object that just hasn't been invented well enough and like no one's developed it better? The little rack that you like, you go like, oh cool, there's a rack for my muffins. Yes. And then it doesn't toast anything. No, it's shit. Why is there a different temperature setting? Surely there is a

correct temperature for toast. Well, apparently I just found out because I eat a lot of hot cross buns because they're fucking so good. They're delicious. And because they've got some sugar in the bread, so it toasts a lot faster. Right,

that's why you need different settings. Exactly. So I would delete toasters and I'd come back with one in a better form. Like a microwave toaster. Yes. Yeah. I'd like to delete overcomplicated menus.

So when you go into a restaurant, you're like, cool, what do I have? The pomm de frittaut with the judeepoo. The judeepoof. The judeepoof. What's that?

What's a shudderpoof? Why are there so many adjectives? And then they'll say, you'll like ask what it is. And then they're, Waiter will be like, oh, it's mashed potato. You're like, why don't you say that? Why don't you just say mashed potato?

Yeah, exactly. Okay, go on, Benjamin. What would I delete? Benjamin Jobhurst. Today, I would, oh, so I would delete today the construct of sleep. Oh, what? Why would delete the beauty of sleep? Because it doesn't work.

First of all, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. Okay. I've had broken sleep for like the last decade. Three months. Like, decades sounds better, but three months is actually distressing, do you know what I mean? And it's not, it's just not working.

It's just not doing what it's supposed to do, do you know what I mean. And I just feel like if we didn't have to do that, I would be a more productive person. I mean, a failure. I'd still not do anything for like eight hours a day. Like, I'd still rest, but just actually having to sleep to recharge your body doesn't work. It's a lot in it. Yeah, it's just like. And then your stress, like, you're anxious because you're like, I'm meant to be sleeping.

And then you're fucking YouTube. And it's just, do you know what I mean? I feel you. Yeah. I feel like you just need a power down instead of asleep because the sleep bit is too stressful. Well, certain people just have that, don't they? And certain people just don't.

Like, you sleep whenever you go to bed. Okay, interesting. Oh no. You sleep whenever you go to bed? Gina was like the one that just... I'm like actually like a dead person. Like it's unbelievable. I can sleep anywhere.

I used to think my eyes open when I was a baby. Yes, we thought she was dead. Which was cute. Quite, no, we're not. Zombie dead baby. And I can sleep anywhere. And I will sleep. I go to bed at 6pm, I'll wake up at 4pm.

If you don't wake up, I won't wake up. Whereas I can't sleep. You've never been able to sleep. But I've started to get better at sleeping and you've got worse. Yeah, I'm just stressed in it. Weird how you glow so much than you don't sleep. There's a lot of highlight it and sweat. Okay, cool.

Benjamin. Yes, man. You and your work. Tell us at the beginning a little bit about your work just so we get an idea of who Benjamin really is. Oh, that's not who I really am though. Yeah, but people need to know it. And also what you like as a person? You don't give a sure about anything.

Oh, I don't care. My work, I work for a gender equality organisation called the Good Ladd Initiative. Shut out, gang, gang. It's not a gang. Oh my God, you've got a gang member. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I didn't think that's what you did. No, no.

And we work with men and boys in schools and universities and corporates doing stuff around masculinity. So mainly facilitating conversations on what you. It means to be a man, what we like about it, what we don't like about it, what we would change if we could change stuff. And then I do a whole bunch of other stuff. Like I do some podcasting. I do lots of public speaking now, which is cool in the last year. I just joined a trustee board for something else.

So I'm on two boards. I'm so cool. Oh my gosh. What the hell? I'm a model. I forget. Oh, wow. I'm just in the Speedo campaign.

But that's not that, you know, you know what I mean? Oh, you know what I mean? I mean, I just did a, yeah. That's excellent. Yeah, no, it's cool. It was cool. You'd know if you followed me, but. My favorite.

Don't worry about you. I've followed you back just before we started recording. Come on. My favorite recent quote of yours was like, I saw Ben recently and we were just hanging out. Where was that chicken place? Went to a chicken shop. Oh, roosters. Yeah, we were roosters.

And he was just sitting there like in his chair, like halfway down the chair. Just like a little head just popping over the table. And he was like, we just went on the Nike ad he'd just done. And I was like, it was really great. And like, it was really cool just to see. that and you're really good at it and he was like no it's great and he was like do you know what after that night had i was walking through london and i was like i think i own the city like where the city is my city is i'm sorry well done but it's not i checked myself

relatively quickly but that is the feeling that's the feeling but i think we all felt like when we've done something good and we're like do you know what i normally feel shit about myself but today i feel like i'm allowed to be here now i actually owed the world in this moment i am the king of everything i'm the queen that is lovely So great. And what's your overall relationship to like Instagram, social media in general? Like, how do you feel about it? Oh, so my Instagram bio is, what does it say?

Let's find it. Doing things that really matter in the world while simultaneously stunting for the gram. Watch my TED talk below. So I hear a lot of plug. Mainly following people to your TED talk. Yeah. That's the function of it, essentially. But Instagram, I think for me, has always just been Instagram.

Right. It's actually more carefully considered than people think it is But it's carefully considered because I think it's really easy to fall into like Allowing it to become who you are And I don't ever want it to be that Like I want it to be like I know people like Make comments all the time about

Oh like it's a highlight real and blah blah blah blah I try not to do that Like I try to post good and bad stuff Or like good and widely irrelevant stuff But mostly it's just for me to like look cool Do you know what I mean? I feel like if I ever have kids, I want to be able to show them my Instagram

and be like, I was cool when I was your age. What have you done? Do you something with your... You just got born. What have you done? You're pathetic. And that highlights. You'll be a great damage.

Yeah, I know. Like, do better. Yeah. But that's what it is. Like, it's just like, not even necessarily highlights, but just cool stuff. You just have fun with it, I think.

Yeah. Which is really nice. Do you ever feel sometimes if you're posting quite a lot of like, you're looking great? You, like, you say, the balance. You want to be like, I'll just post you know.

I'm having a down date or maybe I'm like or something that isn't. Because I've found that and then you seem like you're really like doing that. Falsely, so I'm like, so to do it's like riddles with anxiety. I just want to show you me crying. Yeah. And like I still look pretty because then I'll put like a filter on it. And I'm like, oh, Jesus. What am I doing here?

I don't understand. Then I spire on. And then I don't. And then I realize that I haven't. So then the problem has not been solved. I'm still just being like, I'm cool when I'm not. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. How do you like, I don't know, deal with that. I don't, or so I started doing this thing. Oh, you called it a hearse trap.

That's a thing. I called it a hearstrap. So I started doing this thing where I think, I thought, I got to a point where I was like, oh, people obviously think that life is just really easy.

And it's not. Like, it's really hard. Like, I think the type of work that I do anyway is like, you don't get paid a lot to do it, first of all.

And second of all, it's a lot of work. And I have a very, like, I have a manner which makes things look easy. You do you? You're so like lay back. Yeah, I'm like, oh, it's all chill. And it started to piss me off because people started commenting about it.

And I was like, I think it was at a period of time where like loads of work was coming my way. And there was loads of like, higher, bigger profile stuff that people look at and they're like, I think it sometimes makes people feel a little bit jealous. Yeah. So people started making these like really like, like, sneaky comments. And I was like, oh, I don't like this. So I'm just going to show that like I have to wake up three times a week at five in the morning or like whatever it is you have to do.

Do you know what I mean? And it's not necessarily like me posting or I'm so sad. It's literally great though because I didn't realize either like you go on Instagram stories and you see like everyone what people are doing what their jobs are and stuff. But you see the highlight of the job. You don't see like us walking into you don't see us on the tube here to Sony it takes an house against getting out. You know, so Ben would just be like imagine you're holding your phone, you know from underneath like your face just like where your legs are. And he'd just be like video in his... Then we'd just do poos on Instagram

and it was just like, I get it, shiny. Oh my God, so he's real. I just get it. But it was like, he would just video his face and he's just sitting on a train like this. And it just stays on his face. He's just kind of like whatever he's doing. And there's a song in the background.

There's just like, I don't know, like, something to do with like work or like Kanye or like whatever. And it just says like 5 a.m. And it's just like, it's just nice to see because you're like, oh, it's the moments that there's nothing to show. That's probably the way to balance it out is to show the reality of the everyday life. It's not saying anything, isn't it? It's just having the choice to be, like, post what you want to post

and be like, oh, this is crap or this is good or whatever. But it's just like, sometimes you have to tell yourself to do that because otherwise you just look like you're nailing it at everything. Yeah. And like you said to me recently, Ben, you were like, I don't really equate work with fun anymore. Like, and I've started to, I have this guilt thing where I'm like, I'm so lucky to do that. I think it's also like a white guilt thing where it's like, oh, like, fuck me,

I get to choose to do this work. So like, I want to be like, oh, yeah, no, it is great. It's great. But I actually don't feel like it's great. It's actually really hard and emotionally really hard. Yeah, it's not that great. It's pretty emotionally draining. And you have to be honest about that, I think.

And how do you switch off? Because the stuff that you do is you must get, well, or do you get quite a lot of, like, messages from people asking for help or like, you know, like educating people. Like, how do you switch off after? Thinking about the kids, thinking about the questions. I think, so I have like a go-to response, which is like, I'm really glad when somebody messaged me, if I don't want to talk about something, I'm just like, I'm really glad

that resonated with you. Thanks for sharing or whatever. and then it's generally for me it's done but I'm not somebody who like what with my grand say? Like you don't suffer fools do you know what I mean? Yeah, you are.

Yeah, if I don't want to do something then I'm not going to do it. You're very good at boundary. Yeah, I would just say that I didn't want to do it. I think probably the hardest bit of it is like an internal pressure rather than anything that other people expect from me. Also, like my following's not that big

like my Instagram's not that on and popping but I think I have like a lot of engagement with a small group of people which is really nice but sometimes I'm just like I think my whole demeanour is very like catch me in a good day maybe we can have a conversation yeah that's a bad day we'll talk about something else right I think that's good though yeah because the people that messes Gina and then Gina you do respond because you feel but like I just want to rip the phone out of your hands and shove it up smash this Google phone to shred yeah Team people.

Shit. It's a great phone. There's a slight thing where, because it's online and off the front line, right? And like, if you're doing the work offline, which we both do, I find the online stuff is hard to deal with because it's more frequent. But I find the hum of the offline, like not being able to switch off from the conversations, not be able to stop thinking about the things is actually the thing that means I can't sleep.

Because I'll be lying in bed, like, how do I formulate that when I'm doing that speech? Or like, that woman asked me that question. I didn't answer it properly. And like, how do I, it's more the offline stuff that gets into my brain. What's the difference between, like, you've always been a great sleeper. The only difference is that now, you are consistently having to deal with messages that you want to have to deal with because people ask you really, like, intense stuff that you want to help, but constantly, and also you're constantly being checked by your followers as well, where they're like, hang on, why have you thought about this? Yeah, but the thing is I don't lose sleep over the social media thing.

I lose sleep over the real life work. Yes, but I mean, the only difference is that now you are having to engage in social, with, we're just love. with your phone a lot more. Yeah, a new way. That's true. I think the problem is with social media, people, it's not even that you can't switch off because you can switch off from it,

but people have access to you 24 hours of a day. And they will demand it. They will demand stuff from you. And you don't owe them anything. Like regardless of, and I think social media is an interesting conversation anyway because it's like, did you build your platform or was your platform built by all of the people

who are part of that community? Yeah. And I don't know. But I just take a hard line of like, oh, I don't owe anyone anything. Like, if I decide to come off of this, I don't exist here anymore. And I still exist in real life and I'm still doing stuff. And it matters. Like, that for me is like where the work happens.

And also in real life, when you're working, it's like a three-hour period where you're focused on that thing. So I can give 110% to that thing for that period of time. But with social media, it's like 100% all the time. Yeah. Do you mean, like, everybody's always. And I, yeah. I don't know how you guys do it. because I don't get, I've got a small phone,

I'm not an activist, and all the comments I get, I think he's like, ha, yeah, and I'm like, what do you want for me? Just leave me alone! And I do like a laugh-crying emoji or something. I'm like, great. But I still feel like I'm constantly being like,

oh yes, okay, fine. So the fact that you guys are able to just have a boundary is really good. I think I can learn a lot from the High Benefield Association. We're going to look at your first post. Okay. Which was a picture, a Polaroid, and it's lying on a desk, and it's surrounded by kind of Christmas ribbons. And it says, family business featuring Christmas Gremlin on my shoulder, and you're surrounded by your family members, and you have an adorable, tiny little lady on your back who's got like a white flower in her hair, and she's got her arms wrapped around your neck and you look super happy. Tell us about this post.

You can see it on at Mike Delete Later Pod. We've posted it. No, I can see. Okay, great. Oh, this is my babes. So this is my mom. My youngest sister, so I've got three sisters, and then my oldest sister's youngest daughter. So my niece, and she is also my goddaughter, because I am the baby, so I got the last one.

Got the last one, brilliant. But she is low-key the best one, even though we don't have favourites. No, sure. And, yeah, this was at Christmas, so we were at my sister's house, my oldest sister's house. And I think one of my other sisters, so many sisters, one of my other sisters took a phone. And then I was just like, oh, this is nice. And I think at this period in time, I wasn't posting on Instagram very much at all. Like I didn't, I think, yeah, so I did I, had I deleted all of my posts before that?

Maybe I deleted everything. What year was this? I haven't got it here. Okay, so you've been like posting regularly for like a couple of years? Not even regularly. Yeah, but like, yeah, maybe. What made you start posting regularly? Then what was the?

Yeah, why did you start posting? man. Yeah, we all need the clout. No, so one of my one of my friends, me and my friend Chris, shout out, Chris, decided that we were going to become photographers and we went and bought some field cameras and we were like, let's just post like all of our film photography online.

So we did that for like maybe a couple of months and then we got bored and we were like, I mean literally everyone's life, like all of us do that show all the time. We're like, I need to just be a photographer now and then you're like, oh actually no. Actually no. So wait, so this Christmas, so 2016, so what is, based around this photo, what is Christmas like with your family?

Oh, it's lit, man. They're, do you know what, actually, let me tell the truth. It is really fun, incredibly stressful. I think it is for everyone. Yeah, there's a lot of us. So I've got three older sisters, and then I've got my mum and my dad, and then now six nieces, which was four. Oh, my gosh.

Between like 13 now, Georgia's the oldest, 13. And then down to newborns. So my sister just had twins in Australia, which is dope. Oh, my God. And they're coming over. So many. it. So Christmas is like a hotbox, do I mean? Isn't a hotbox weed? Isn't, well, if you get all those, it's a hotbox, all. Christmas is like everybody mad stoned.

No, it's super chill, but it's also not chill at all. So much going on. Yeah, and then we have also like a big extended family. So, like, there's loads of people, like, between houses and everybody's visiting everyone. And it was really nice until I stopped getting presents. And then it was just trash. Yeah, when you're not like the kid, when you're not like, the child and the family anymore, and you're like, hang on. So I have to facilitate your joy Instead of you facilitate mine. My job as a facilitator all year.

Please. Please. On the one day that exists for everyone. Can I have it? It's not for me now. Do I mean? I'd rather just give the money to Jesus. Yeah, that would work.

How would you do that? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Well, then you give it to the church. Sure. But that's not the same person. Definitely not the same thing. Stevie, I'm so sorry.

I thought Jesus was in all of the clergy. Jesus is every clergy. I think Jesus was in everybody. I'm so sad. Sorry, see if you just fell out about Christiancy. Look, that's really hard. You have a post that you regret posting, or you were like a deleter. So do you know what?

I'm not a deleter. I do things with my chest. But what I do is I post more recklessly to my stories than I post to my main feed. And I don't really, like, by and large, like my Instagram. is very, like, in my mind, it's very clear what it exists for. So I don't regret very much. There's only one thing I regretted. Actually, you were in it.

Oh, okay. But not because you were in it. Let me see if I can find it. Did you delete it? Did you block me? Did I delete it? Did I block? Yeah.

No, it was a, um, it was a post about a panel that we were on. What were we on? Uh, we were on. Shortich house? Yeah. Shorty house, hundred women, I know. Yeah. Yeah.

Fancy members club. So I saw, I saw, I saw, Ben first for the first time speak for 100 women I know at Rich Mix. Yeah. And I spoke, I saw him speak and then I was like he's cool and I'd be friends with that person because he I was like

if I was on that panel I'd just be like I'm not going to speak and just want to listen to what you're saying. So then I made Ben my friend and then we did a panel for the same initiative but it showed a chance. And what did you post your stories? I literally posted Shout Me if you're trying to roll. So I posted the flyer. Yeah. With the

people tagged. Yeah. And that's it. That's why do you regret it? Why do you regret that? Because it just, that for me was the beginning of people having a problem with me online. Was it? Yeah. In what way? Because somebody had messaged me and was like, are there any queer non-binary or trans speakers on this panel?

And I said, I was a bit arsy. I was like, I don't know, are there? Question mark. Because I just think you can Google it if you want to know. Yeah, find out. Yeah. Just Google it yourself. But they were like, oh, how would I know you're on the event, not me?

And it was the first time, apart from being trolled. So when I did the TED Talk last year, I got some like random trolling on Twitter, which is very foreign to me. And I don't, like, I don't engage online in that way. Like, I don't put out opinions and thought pieces unless it's like a piece of work that I've done in real life that is now living online. Yeah. So it was super weird to get trolled. But this was a little bit different because it was like somebody that I had given space to you.

I think that's the other thing about social media for me is like, I think people know whether we're friends or not on social media. You know what I mean? So, like, you know whether you can speak to me about stuff. Yeah. You can speak into my situations or into my life or whatever. And I just felt like it was a real abuse of that. And so it was super uncomfortable for me.

It's holding you to account for something that you're not necessarily, you're able to do really. Yeah. Like, you're like, why? It's not. It is, it's very important as a thing. As a general topic, important. But it's like immediately as soon as you put anything out, people are like, so tell me this.

So tell me this. So why are you doing this? You're doing a lot of work in one area. You've got good work in one area. You can't do excellent work in every area. And I think it's very hard. And I do think there is a responsibility to be, like you are accountable for what you post.

You know, so if I am posting something I should know and it was a lesson learned for me. Even though I did know when I posted it. You didn't post like, you didn't post anything bad. You just posted about a thing you were doing. It just so happened that there wasn't the diversity that that particular person. There actually was the diversity.

That's the thing that's weird as well is like, I'm also black. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not, I don't know, I don't look at myself and think. If the panel was all black men, it's a different conversation, but it's not. Like, I'm the only person of colour. Well, not the person of colour. But, no, because Falma was there, but yeah. But it was, it's just a weird vibe.

And then I thought, hmm. I don't know what somebody wants from me in that moment. Suddenly, it's like, it's opened up and he's like, oh, I've got an audience now that are going to hold me to account of things. Suddenly, it's not just me just posting from Facebook. And then people just like that I mean. And also when your life and your work is doing that work all the time off Instagram. Yeah.

When you enjoy Instagram for what you enjoy it for, which is like posting fun stuff, like the interviews you're doing, the photos, the modeling stuff, like the really fun, it's your space to have like a nice time and be like, look at the sick stuff I'm doing. I feel good about this stuff and I'm excited to share it. And your life is doing all this with the work. Then it's like when you start sharing that stuff on Instagram, it's like me where my entire existence becomes a conversation about everything.

Right. Yeah. And so it's like, oh, we can talk you about. This, this, this, this. it's this. And you had that one that space. So I guess putting that event up was like, oh,

I'm dipping my toe into this space now being about everything I do offline. Actually, I want this supposed to be this. Right. Yeah. I just want it to be cool pictures. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know, man. I just think, like, there is, there is a space for people to have opinions. Yeah. And definitely,

like, say what you think and express yourself. But also, like, I'm not here for that. Yeah. I'm not here for that. your opinion.

Yeah, you're not constantly on any time. On the panel at all times. And it was, I don't know, it was a super weird time because it gave me like loads and loads of anxiety. But yeah, I'm sure I did. And I, I was in therapy at the time, I think, and I was talking about it like regularly with my therapist. And I was like, I don't understand it.

But the reality, like also the reality of therapy is you pay 60 to 100 pounds for every session. So I spend, you know what I mean? And I think this is that like the idea. that people have of like doing the work and blah blah blah and everything's so glamorous and it's so cool. But actually I'm spending 60 pounds to talk about how someone's upset me because they were a dickered online. Yeah. And they were meant to be my friend at that period at that point in time.

And I just think that's the actual reality of it because what I wanted to do was very different. Like I just wanted to like be a dickered and post loads of indirect stories about them and like say horrible things and like get everybody to like galvanize and support me and whatever. But then actually like stepping out of that and being like, well, I'm upset about this and let me check in with how I'm feeling and processing it and get to a better space and all of that just takes a lot of effort. And try and understand their point of view,

which sometimes is you feel like it's so draining to do that, but it's so important to all the time on social media, you do you just want to be like, like when you're with your campaign, some people would just say stuff, and occasionally you'd be like really great at being like, you know what, actually really great on you, but thank you for your discourse.

And then sometimes you'd be like, fuck you bitch. And you're like, great. Do you just snapped? And I love it. And like, do you know, So I'm proud of that because we grew up and I am very like, I have, we argue, me and my dad are the same way, and we argue we're both for the last word. I'm not good at learning. I'm very stubborn.

And in the last two years, I've had to become better because I've had all these people who have questions and challenge me on things all the time. And I'm really thankful for that. And I've actually enjoyed it. But nine out of ten times I will be all for it. And then once I'll be like, do you know what? I'm doing the most I can. So I don't need this right now. I'm tired.

I just want to have a second off to just be a person for a sec, you know? I get it because of the people that do laugh crying emojis on my thing. Oh my God, I know. It's so hard. Can relate. I really can relate. And is there a post that you're proud of? Everything I've posted?

Yeah. Do you know what? I'm proud of my damn self. No. Good. Post that I'm proud of, I would say, do you know what? I would say the TED Talk stuff. Yeah.

But then I also think, um, super lame. Not super lame. It's cool. But I think the post that I'm most proud of is maybe the Wingstop photo. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about when I say that. We will post it to at my delete later pod. So I'll see it.

So basically, Wingstop is a restaurant. Shout out, Rick Ross, biggest boss. Oh my God, Rick Ross is the best. And we went to Wingstop after. I think we went to an event at Somerset House. So it was like a sole election event. It was like a big rave and it was sick. And then we went to Wingstop afterwards.

And we were eating chicken. And someone, not someone. Amas, my ex-partner took a photo of me and it was... I remember this photo. I love this picture. And it's just you look in X. Your element with wings. And then I just posted the dumbest fucking caption like just the most trash.

And like, but I just did it as if I really, like, when I post captions, I try and channel my inner Kanye. Oh yeah. And I just try and like say things as if I 100% wholeheartedly believe that this is the correct philosophy on life. Absolutely. What was your wing philosophy? My wing philosophy is we wear sunglasses inside and eat our wings with gloves on because that's what it means to be iconic. Each of us, each of us must ask ourselves whether or not we are willing to bear the burden of and carry the cross of coolness. It's not easy being this saucy in front of the camera while onlookers mutter under their breath, but we don't do this for the onlookers.

We do this for the onlookers. And then it was like just hashtags from an interview that Kanye did where he was just chatting. I am Peketto. I am Warhol. I am Steve Jobs. what Disney, Google, Nike, Mark Parker. I just, I just change shit. I love that shit though.

That's excellent. But then Wingstop reposted it. And I thought, do I mean? Like, they were like, oh, this guy's cool. And I thought, yeah. This is all I want from social media is validation for being cool. That's excellent. Oh, and also I did this editorial the other day.

So it was an editorial for PostScript magazine. And they're like a, they describe themselves as a cultural anthology. So it's like a journal, but like it's super cool. And it was on work, but I think it was the first interview that I'd had about work where the person was actually genuinely interested in me. So, like, we had a really long... I think we sat in my kitchen for like three hours and chatting about you. Oh, that's so nice.

And then we shot it on like the hottest day of summer in Wonstter Flats, which is like... It's not even a field, Gina. It's like literally in the middle of the hood. Do you know what? And there were like fuckheads like behind the trees. I was changing. People were like looking at me like half naked. and I was like, this is super awkward, but also it's lit.

Yeah, doing it for the gram and for the journal. Do you know what I mean? For the journal. I'm going to read one of the quotes from you from PostScript interview. Go for it. Positive masculinity for me is where you can be a man and feel like a man and have access to all the masculine characteristics and all of the feminine characteristics with none of the abuse of power.

That's really nice. Just like really great. Sometimes you do an interview, right? And they like take a quote and you're like, why should take that one? You said that. Like that doesn't really give the fabric of what I was trying to say. say. I felt like all their quotes were like great.

I'm just going to also read another quote from that because I just want to read it because it's important to me. I just have to say this because in this place I'm in, I think this quote needs to be on everyone's wall. To talk about men being trash without talking about patriarchy does a disservice because you're giving people that ammunition to fire shots but you're not giving them the framework to understand

who the enemy is. Yeah. Very good quote. I'm smart. I get furious when people just yeah. It's so easy to say without. The men are trashed. It's so massive on Twitter. And it's like, it's become like almost like a meme. It's a joke.

But also it's a joke. But now it becomes a cultural touch point and there's no context. And people aren't using it as a joke. And people use it to just shut down any helpful conversation that could be happening. Yeah, you're right. But yeah, I think that's great these words. We're proud of it. And your previous wings on it's truly excellent.

Yes. Congratulations on the wings. Real good. So next we're going to play, follow one. and follow block. I'm going to give you my favourite. We're going to give you three people. Okay. And I've chosen them. Okay. Because if I chose them, I don't know you.

Okay. That would be a relevant. She's like, her friend Alice. Like you'd be like to know. I don't know her friend Alice. So me. Yeah. Tony Morrison and Kanye West. Bearing a mind that June is in the room right now. And it's Tony Morrison and Kanye West. You have to follow one, unfollow one and block one.

And you've got to realize there is a difference between blocking it and following. Yeah, because you notice when someone's, you know when someone's blocked you. You don't really know when someone's followed you. You got rid of someone in your life. Yeah. Have a real thing. Oh, this is brutal. This is so bad. I know. Oh my gosh. What's the point of playing it if it's easy? What's the what? What's the point in plane? All right, let me give you the workings out. Yeah, go up. My social media exists primarily for me to enjoy my life. Yes. Therefore, primarily. I block Gina. No, I will follow my friends. So I would follow Gina.

That's nice. Because I actually know you in real life and I genuinely care about what you're doing. So I'd rather see that than see other stuff. In theory, I could... So based on my current following, based on who I follow at the moment, I could block Kanye.

Do I even follow Kanye? Does Kanye even have an Instagram? I could block Kanye and still know what Kanye is doing. And still see stuff and still enjoy. Tony Morrison is actually... Actually, so the thing about me is I don't really like reading that much. I don't read books. I do read books because I have to.

But yeah, I'm a, I'm, I'm a audio book person out of choice. You know what I mean? Yeah. Tony Morrison, obviously, OG in the game, shout out. Maybe Tony would get the unfollow because then I could. Yeah. So we're blocking Kanye. But now is that a good decision?

Do you feel bad about your boy? Also, like, he's like, he's like incredible. I don't want to see. I don't want to see. She's bigger than Tony the person. No, I'm blocking. everyone. Can I block it? I'm following Gina and blocking everyone else. I don't care. I mean, wow. I don't care. Oh my God. You just want 180? This is an excellent lesson in boundaries. I take my power back.

I take my power back. Do you know what? Honestly, there's no one else who play that game where they'd go, I'm changing the rules and we go, yeah, sure, fine. Yeah, no. But do you know why? Because I just feel like, do I actually care. Am I, like, I'm doing bit by bit. I'm trying not to make it obvious, but now everyone's going to know, but I'm doing like a massive, unfollow thing where I go through like 100, 200, 200 people every day. And I'm like, I'm following. I'm following. I'm follow, unfollow, because I just think

I don't care. And sometimes it is work stuff, sometimes it's like really interesting things. I still don't care. You don't need it on your feet. Do you know what I mean? Like if I want to know, I'll sign up to a newsletter

or like someone will tell me like people are DM me this stuff every day anyway. So yeah. Yeah, I think I just want to follow my friends. So you just follow me and then. Tony and Kanye you're just elsewhere engaged.

Maybe still follow Kanye. Maybe still, maybe I'm follow Kanye. Maybe block Kanye. Who cares? I don't know. This is great. Yeah.

You know what really. It doesn't really matter. Ultimately, you have a complex relationship with Kanye. I love Kanye, but also that's a real problem. I know, yeah, I, do you know what? The first podcast I ever recorded was with my friend Suaz, shout out, Lippmas podcast. Oh, I love her.

And we recorded like an episode and we didn't know that you can't record podcasts time sensitively or with time sensitivity because stuff happens in real life. And you're like, oh, we've got a recording that's now redundant. So we recorded this whole episode on Kanye And it was like Oh is Kanye a good person And I was ride or die

Like I was like no Kanye is the guy And we literally walked out Went on our phones And it was when he just said all that stuff About slavery being a choice And we're like we can't even put this out now It's a waste of an hour and a half Do you know what having a conversation on Kanye

It could change at any moment Do you know how I can't even I don't know how to it's too hard I just don't talk about him anymore Because I'm like it's too complex And before you wouldn't shut off I couldn't stop. Absolutely

That was really interesting and really great. Thank you so much for coming on. Do you go to our Instagram app, Might Delete Later Pod, for all of the Instagrams that Ben was discussing, so you know, I'd say get it up and then listen along, but it's too late now. Stop it. Go back and relisten. And please do like and subscribe, follow us on Instagram.

Give us a little review on the podcast. app. Love a bit of that. And do message us any sort of deep grid photos that you've found of yourself on Instagram. Go right back and the more embarrassing, the better. We will post our favourites, please. Also, we will take Twitter screenshots as well because Twitter is also very funny when you first start. Have a little thing about your relationship with social media, but it's meant to be fun ultimately. So if you get upset about it and you don't like the stuff you've posted, don't worry about it. It might as well delete later. Thanks for this day. Love you all.

Thank you.