Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 113. Todd Barry: The Inventor of Crowd Work

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

On the heels of the release of his new special “Domestic Shorthair,” Todd Barry sits down with Mike this week for a conversation about his 35 years in comedy. The two talk about whether or not Todd invented crowd work, if Bill Burr was right when he said Mike was “doing” Todd when Mike was first starting out, and why Todd can never do another prom show. Plus, Todd reveals the problem he has with Mike’s cat, Mr. Moustache.Please consider donating to Doctors Without Borders

I was on a flight, I think it was to Hawaii, and it was like 10 hours. And the guy sitting in front of me every five minutes wrapped both his hands around the back of his seat. And he was blocking my screen. And I was kind of like... I'm not like a confrontational person, especially if I have no idea what's on the other side. And he kept doing it, and then I was like...

And I said, well well at least i can get a picture of this for instagram because he's like literally these fingers over the screen and i said you know i'll come up with a caption like blocking my view of 500 days of summer and that kept happening kept happening the flight eventually lands the doors open paramedics rush on and start treating this guy. He'd been in some sort of agony the whole time. But there's a happy ending. I didn't

post the picture. That is the voice of the great Todd Berry. I've known Todd for a long time. One of my favorite comics. I opened for him early in my career. We talk about that today. We talk about Crowdwork,

which he put out a Crowdwork special years ago that's hilarious. And now Crowdwork is sort of like the all everything on social media. And I feel like he sort of pioneered the idea of filming that. He has a new YouTube special out that is, uh, it's called domestic short hair. It's on, it's free. It's on YouTube.

Um, highly recommend it. This is a big week for announcements. I've just announced that the old man in the pool is coming out on Netflix. I told everybody on Jimmy Kimmel live. And, uh, so it's been exciting, uh exciting to tell everybody that because, as you know, I've been working on Here With You for about four years. It's been a long, long time. I've performed it on, you know, out in outdoor shows and indoor shows,

standing on top of tables on Broadway, off Broadway, all over the world. And now it's going to be on Netflix. Super proud of it. And then I'm going out on tour with an all-new hour of comedy, which is currently called Please Stop the Ride. We're going to start it in Boston. By the way, the Boston shows, they were called Christmas Parmesan. They're still called that,

but it is part of the Please Stop the Ride tour. So don't go to Christmas Parmesan and then be like, and then I got to go to DC and see Please Stop the Ride because it's going to be fundamentally the same tour. Also, I'll be in Big Sky, Montana. I think that's the first time in years I've played

in Montana, Vancouver, Seattle, Walla Walla, Portland, Oregon. I think those ones just sold out today. St. Petersburg, Florida. A whole bunch of shows in Florida. Jacksonville, Orlando, Miami Beach,

Jacksonville. By the way, it's one of the only places where where this is from Thank God for Jokes where I got complaints about cursing too much. So if there's any Jacksonville listeners, there's not that much cursing in this show. If any, I don't know if there's any. So I think it's a relatively all-Asians show. That show I was paraphrasing someone cursing. So I think that put off some people in Jacksonville.

I'll be in Jacksonville, Orlando, Miami Beach. And then I'm going skiing with my brother, Joe, or I should say he's going skiing and I'm performing comedy in Aspen, Colorado, as well as Beaver Creek, Colorado, Fort Collins, Denver, where we just added a second show, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Troy, New York, Rochester, New York, Toronto. We just added a show at Massey Hall,

which is one of the prettiest venues in the world, where Neil Young recorded one of his albums. Just love that place. Charlotte, North Carolina, Richmond, and Washington, D.C. That's a lot of stuff. That's a lot of shows. Holy cow. We're about to add another city. We're working on it. There's like an extraordinary amount of feedback that I left out a few cities on my comments on Instagram. So we're working on adding some. Join the mailing list and you will be the first to know if and when we announce those shows.

Today on the podcast, we have Todd Berry. Todd, like I said, has a whole bunch of specials, including the new special Domestic Short Hair on YouTube. We have a great chat today about his crowd work

and how when I was first doing comedy in New York, people would accuse me of sounding like Todd Berry. That was like a big part of my life. Like 20-something years ago, people would be like, you sound like Todd Berry. And I had to be like,

oh, okay, well, I like him a lot. I don't mean to sound like him. But it's a fun chat. And I think you're really going to love it. Enjoy my chat with the great Todd Berry. You've been doing it 35 years. Yeah, it's going to be 36 pretty soon. Unbelievable.

I know, it's crazy. Gaffigan and I talked about this on this podcast. It's like, because he's another one, 35 years. Yeah, it's going to be 36 pretty soon. Unbelievable. I know, it's crazy. Gaffigan and I talked about this on this podcast. It's like, because he's another one, 30, 35 years. Like, long, like, to last in entertainment or in art in any sphere, three, four decades is absurd. It's an astonishing thing. And what do you think is, because a lot of creatives listen to the podcast, like, what do you think is, because a lot of creatives listen to the podcast, like what do you think the key to longevity is?

I think hanging in there, not, I mean, obviously never got too big. I mean, I'm fine. I mean, I get recognized in trains and stuff, but I think just hanging in there and just like finding people who like you and like if there's a club doesn't use you, find the club that does use you.

I'm not the most prolific comic, but I do try to write as fast as I can. But yeah, I think hanging in there. And also I think I didn't, I always felt like I had like a, I'm about to break for like 30 years. I think I'm about to break big. I'm gonna go wide.

And it never really happened on a massive level. So I guess hanging in there. You opened for me, remember that? San Francisco? Yeah. Not only do I remember it, but it's one of the most marked things in my brain because I asked you what you thought of a joke and you were like it's a little bit it was a new joke at the time you were like it's a little hacky and I say that oh my god but even to this day I'm like is it it was just like it was a joke that was on my first album which is like I don't have a weight problem but I'm the guy who could really put the brakes on an orgy everyone would be like was he invited why is he eating a pizza I don't know why I would say that it's hacky you were like it's a little hacky and i was like i don't know i mean but but

i i've always been self-conscious about that as an idea but i mean as weird as it sounds it's probably a compliment that i felt comfortable enough and cared enough to say that it was hacky i think that's a good point i think that's a good point. I felt comfortable enough to be brutally mean and unnecessarily tactless. Wow. I don't remember saying that. But you've always been, I mean, it wasn't malicious and it was extraordinarily like, you've always been super supportive of me, even though when I moved to New York, a lot of people, including Bill Burr, accused me of sounding like you. Yeah. I saw the clip with a video. I know, I did too. Where he said, what did he say? I went to see Mike Bigley,

this one man show called A Night With Todd Berry. That's right, An Evening With Todd Berry. I never saw that. I mean, I never saw your, I never felt like, oh, Mike's doing me, man. I've never felt that, but I'd heard about it. I did too. People came up to me when I first moved to New York

and were like, hey hey you're doing todd barron i go i don't think so i mean i i love todd but i don't i don't think if anything when i listen back to my old stuff i'm like i got some hedberg in there yeah i mean a lot of people do brian reagan yes you hear a lot of like you know the kind of inflection that wasn't really a good brian reagan impression but yeah his inflection. Yeah. But your vocal tone is like, how did you find it? Because it's so one of a kind. I mean, honestly, I kind of hate the way I've – when I listen to my first album, which I don't really listen to my first album,

it's not like I'm going to like my first album, which I don't really listen to my first album, it's not like I'm gonna put my first album on and kick back a glass of juice and listen to my first album. But when I've heard clips of it for whatever reason, it's like, I go, God, did I, do I really? Cause I had this whole different way of talking on stage, which I kind of, I think I have a more natural way of talking now. God, I hope so.

But I think when I got locked into jokes, I would do this kind of inflection and cadence, but it was never something, only until some people started doing impressions of me to my face, did I think, oh shit, is there something going on with the way I talk? Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, but I've never like said,

here's the way I'm going to talk on stage. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You invented crowd work. I invented crowd work and- And then what happened? Also music. So if we can get anything for the record.

I invented storytelling. You invented storytelling. I forgot. Yeah, it's true, you did. I didn't invent that one. I was the second person to do storytelling. I forgot. That's true, you did. I didn't invent that one. I was the second person to do storytelling. But clearly, like, you were way ahead of the crowd work curve. It was special in 2014.

That's all crowd work, and it's hilarious. And now it is, like, the thing of social media. I mean, I guess we could talk about that. You don't want to talk about it? I do. No, we should talk about it. You don't want to talk about it? I do. No, we should talk about it. I just don't want to slag anyone. But I guess I could slag a concept

and not individual. Yeah, I don't. I think it's, I don't think, I mean, even though like even now I'm on this half crowd work, half joke story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still like, I feel like

I see comics doing crowd work. Like if I do a bar show and some younger comics starts just going, I start crying. I mean, I see comics doing a crowd. Like if I do a bar show and some younger comics starts just going, I start crying. I mean, I don't literally start crying, but I just feel like, cause you sit in there and like they're talking, they tell a joke and they think they have to stop.

Hey, what about you? Hey, what about you? What about this couple? It's like, you're wasting your time on stage, man. Yeah. I mean, if you wanna be, if you're exceptionally good at it and you love, or if you just like doing it, you should do it.

But I feel like there's people who think they have to do it. And that's when I think it's a problem. My estimation of why it works so well when you do it is that you're not doing the standard questions. I mean, I start with like, what do you do generally? But I try to take it in a different direction, yeah. Yeah, it's almost like you're having like a real conversation with the audience.

Yeah, I try to get be curious and I also like, if someone's not into it, I back off. I mean, that happened to me the other night in some city where she's like, I'd rather not do this. Like, let's not do this. Let's not do this. Yeah. I respect you.

But you are sitting in the front row at a crowd work show. Your persona on stage is more hyper-confident. Yeah. But like in real life, I know you on and off stage, like you're not a wildly confident bravado person. No, no, I'm kind of a, I'm all talk, is what they say. I think that's what you're trying to say, I'm all talk. I don't walk the walk.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's times when, yeah, like, I mean, I'm sure you've had it too, where you're getting mad on stage and you're like, I just said something to a kind of a big guy that I would not normally, fuck did I, what am I, you know, you're just kind of like getting visibly angry or maybe actually attack them on some level. But yeah, there is that.

I mean, I think you kind of need it to go up there and do something as ridiculous as what we do, you know? Like an absurd amount of confidence. Or at least fake it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Off stage, what are you most confident about and least confident about?

Ooh, wow. Now we're getting deep. I mean, I'm confident that I'm pretty funny, I think. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and then least confident, oh, shit. I mean, there's, you know, certain, I can be socially awkward, I think. Yeah.

Like right now. This is what... Second part of your question and answer is this. Is this what I'm talking about? Is this, is the hemming and hawing. I feel like one of the things you're known for, and it's the reason why I think when I moved to New York, people were like, hey, you sound like Todd Berry.

Your voice is so specific. Yeah. And like when you were starting out, who were you inspired by like did you go like see everybody i would go see a lot of people and i would go to open mic nights and kind of watch and but i it's weird i've i've never it never occurred to me until at some point when it really occurred to me that i wanted to be a comedian yeah like i was always being funny like even when i was in bands i would they would they would have to take the mic between songs and banter.

And, but I never said I wanna be a standup comic. And then just, I watched this open mic night, I guess a few times and it's just in Florida back then in the late eighties, you could just call up, you know, they have, hey, I wanna do your Sunday open mic night. And they go, yeah, we got a slot. And then boom, you're a comedian.

I mean, you're- Wow. And they would also do the show during the regular, like one day of the week when the headliner was there also. So it'd be part of the headlining show, the open mic night, so. See, that's like,

it's a very different thing than today. Because like, I feel like people ask me this a lot and i'm sure they ask you a lot like young comics like what do i do there's only you know there's a hundred people at the open mic you know what i mean seven slots or whatever yeah it's like what would you do if you were coming up now i don't know because i mean i know i've i guess i've maybe done a handful of new york open mics where you're like i'm performing for 12 people who are waiting to perform. Right. And like one weird local loner guy. Right. But so and that could go either way, because either you get the like the comic supportive laugh, or you get iced out.

Because that's they're just jealous or not jealous, or just they don't want to be supportive, or they're just like the way I would probably be, which is not laughing a lot. Right. But, I mean, I guess there's enough bar shows which aren't really like open mics. You still, what's interesting is you still do bar shows. I mean, yeah, lately,

especially because I was trying to get some more material for this tour, and it's like there's places I could walk to, go on, and maybe they're not electric but they're sitting there because I feel like Gaffigan's like that too I don't know if he still is like that I think he is

yeah I'll go on with six people yeah let's do this I think I have that in common with you which is like it doesn't really matter what the conditions are. Yeah. I mean, there's certainly like doing the bell house when it's packed is amazing. Yeah. And doing a bar show maybe somewhere in Brooklyn or Lower East Side or something might not be amazing. But if something comes out, you fix something, fix a line or two.

Do you listen back? Do you record on your phone and listen back? I, if you wanna sit here for 30 hours, we can listen to the ones that I haven't listened to yet. But I mean, it's funny though, because when I first started, I used to drive to West Palm from my Broward County home. It's one of the three clubs that I worked at

to do open mics. And I would, you recorded on a cassette tape and I couldn't wait to listen to the cassette in the car. Now they couldn't imagine wanting to listen to a tape of my set. And it's kind of sad in a way, cause you're just so excited that you got laughs. But now it's like, yeah, I've gotten plenty of laughs.

Yeah. What's the town that you feel like people don't realize is a great town? I feel like, you know, I went to my first trip to Dayton, Ohio. I don't know if people know, have an opinion about Dayton, but I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. I think Dayton's fantastic.

And Pittsburgh, I think used to, mean pittsburgh's great yeah used to be sort of a punch line for people in pittsburgh like and then i went to pittsburgh this place is beautiful those are two that i really like you know i always say like it's i love bluington indiana yeah iowa city yeah iowa city's great yeah that's a good one i think the thing that i feel like i've experienced from touring the country is like City's great. Yeah, that's a good one. I think the thing that I feel like I've experienced from touring the country is like, there's great folks everywhere. Absolutely.

You know, people just think like, it's the only thing that counts is New York, San Francisco, Chicago. And it's like, that's really limited. And it's also inaccurate. And as you said, there's great people everywhere. So you could be super far left. And also I don't do political stuff

so i yeah conceivably make right-wingers laugh also yeah with my uh my cat jokes yeah exactly but yeah there's nice people everywhere and you get a crowd of people who like what you do and they're they're like oh yeah we're we're here and we're supportive and yeah you by the way got softened by your cat i did i mean you have such an edge to me man you named your cat after me i did it's my it's not it's mike berbiglio my cat's name is mike literally named after you first and last name you know how do you pronounce it it's different than it's michaeline michaeline michaeline yeah michaeline why where'd the name come from i it's what she had at the aspca and i just remember seeing her and i thought i was like Michaelene? Michaelene. Michaelene, yeah. Michaelene. Where'd the name come from? It's what she had at the ASPCA, and I just remember seeing her,

and I was like, that's kind of a pretty name. I never heard it before. Yeah. And I didn't want to name her like, you know, Dr. Bubbles or something. I hope that's not your cat's name. Mr. Mustache. One of my cats is Mr. Mustache. Seriously? Oh, shit.

Oh, well. Gosh, it's Mr. Mustache. mustache one of my cats is mr mustache oh shit oh well i guess we're gonna you're gonna turn the recorder off now things were going well till you insulted my cat This is a thing we do called the slow round. Is there a time that you remember running away, physically running away from something? Lightning makes me run. Lightning? Lightning, yeah, you know, from the sky. So you've seen lightning and jogged away? And run, yeah.

I've run when I'm with people. I'll be like, gotta go and run. And then, you know, friends of mine know that I have that, so they're usually pretty supportive. So you saw lightning. You're with people. Yeah. They all see it.

You jog away. Yeah, yeah. To indoors? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I grab a piece of metal and I stand in the street. Yeah, yeah, indoors. I know the old indoors trick. Is there a song that makes you cry?

Oh yeah, yeah. We were talking about REM earlier and there's a song called Good Advices on their Fables of the Reconstruction album that fucking messes me up. Oh, interesting. But there's a number of songs and album. It fucking messes me up. Oh, interesting. But there's a number of songs, and also Wendell G on that album. Oh, interesting.

Back to back that sometimes if I, I don't know, yeah, those can make me cry. What do you think, I have a bunch of R.E.M. songs that make me cry too. What do you think gets you about those two songs? Well, it's kind of, yeah, like I don't even know what the songs are about. Right. Like I couldn't even tell you, maybe I don't even know what the songs are about. Like I don't even, couldn't even tell you, maybe I might even tell you the words to them. I have no idea what they're about,

but I guess it's just the chords and the melody and it just fucking crushes me sometimes. Yeah. It's a song by Magnetic Field, "'Save a Secret for the Moon." Yeah. That'll mess me up a little bit. Wow.

I mean, I've never cried, Mike. I was testing you. I've never cried. This is like my very own crowd work right here. Who cries? I've never cried. Real men don't cry. No, I've never cried either. I'm only asking for someone else.

You cry on planes ever? Gosh, yeah, I have. I'm more susceptible to crying watching movies on planes. People, yeah. I mean, you ever cried a commercial? Yeah. I did once, man. I was just, I couldn't believe how it just like, because I've always heard,

oh, this is a Ford commercial made me cry. Like, fucking, it's 20 seconds, calm down. And then this commercial, I don't remember what it was for, but it was just this guy who was clearly dying, dancing with his partner. And I was just like, oh, fuck. Crush me. You were in Hedberg's movie. I was, yeah, yeah.

Which is almost like a fabled story at this point, the existence of that movie. Right, because it still hasn't come out. Hasn't come out. No. It's called Los Enchiladas. Yeah, yeah. And it's based on him working at a restaurant, I think, for a bunch of years as a cook,

and then he made this movie, and you're in it, like, I want to say a tells in it. You might be, yeah. A bunch of notable comedians are in it. Did you like Mitch directing you? Yeah, it was fine. I do remember about that. I had this kind of funny feeling

because I did it, I flew to Minneapolis the day after I did Letterman. Oh, wow. And I just remember having my first meal there in Minneapolis at some sort of not great restaurant. I'm eating chicken fingers. I'm like, I was fucking on Letterman last night. You're sitting there alone.

You're like, I was literally a guest on the late show with David Letterman, a very popular show. I was a guest on it. I did stand-in jokes that I wrote. You're like eating your chicken fingers like alone. I think that is like stand-up comedy in a nutshell as a career. Yeah, yeah.

There's a great scene. Did you see that Radiohead documentary? No. There's one. I forgot what it's called. People, something with people in it. But there's a great scene in there which is really a good sort of show business nutshell

where they come off stage and there's, you know, those crowds going apeshit but they're in an argument about something. So they come off stage and there's, you know, this crowd's going apeshit, but they're in an argument about something. So they're sitting there and they're arguing. Well, this crowd is going to apeshit. Oh my gosh.

Yes. It's like, it's like, it's not even enough to smooth things over. That's so profound. It's pretty, it's kind of like, I mean,

not that I'm not saying show business is fun, but it does. It's not, there's a romanticized version of it that. Well not saying showbiz isn't fun but it does it's not there's a romanticized version of it that well yeah certainly you don't when you see the comedian on letterman show you know or or now you know the tonight show or kimmel you don't imagine that the next day right they're in a they're in cbg airport in ohio and they're like you know struggling with their bags and one of the wheels is broken yeah but doing those shows is kind of like there is like this you build it up so much and then you kind

of in four and a half minutes it's over and then you're kind of like i guess something what was the thing that you've done in your career where you're like, I cannot believe I'm doing this right now? I mean, I can't, I guess the wrestler, doing the wrestler was- Do it with Darren Aronofsky, yeah. That was pretty surreal because going to the Venice Film Festival- Yes.

It was, you know, on my own dime, was- On my own dime, that's a hilarious joke from your special. I mean, I just agreed with your compliment. I thought you were saying it a hilarious joke from your special i mean i just agreed with your compliment i thought you were saying it's a joke for my special i missed hilarious and i just signed yeah that was hilarious mike that's why i put it on the special that's why you're here today for me to say back your jokes to you say they're hilarious but yeah you agree but that was a surreal experience when i was like yeah you're going in a motorcade to watch a movie you were in and that movie the wrestler had a lot of hype in the sense of like it was it was like going in a motorcade to watch a movie you were in.

And that movie, The Wrestler, had a lot of hype in the sense of like, it was not only a Darren Aronofsky movie, but it was like the comeback of Mickey. Right, right, right. Where it's like he hadn't done stuff in a long time. Yeah, yeah. So it was kind of a triumph. Yeah, it was pretty cool to be in.

What's the reverse of that what's the what's the time where you thought like this is just not worth it oh i mean just times i bombed on you know bombing just like i bombed on tv twice yeah uh did you really yeah i would say well one was a conan my second conan, which had big pockets of silence in it. Big pockets of silence. I had just run the set like the night before a few times and it was killed and it was like, ooh. And I was like, I do feel like I came,

I'm surprised I came across unscathed because I guess they just knew enough that it just didn't work tonight, that they didn't like ban me from the show and I ended up keep doing the show. I did Kimmel once enough that, yeah, it just didn't work tonight, that they didn't, like, ban me from the show. And I ended up keep doing the show. I did Kimmel once, and it was like that, where I came off, and you don't know who to trust. You go, like, did that go okay?

I was like, that went great. And I'm like, I don't think it went great. I did a show. It was, like, live at the Comedy Store in London. And they got us there early to do a soundcheck. Did the soundcheck. Then I'm going on like 12th and they've been there for hours. And the emcee who, I don't think he meant any harm by this at all,

but he was just like, our next act is gonna, you're gonna notice that he's from a different place when he starts talking or something like that. And it's like, maybe don't say that. Don't lay that as ground. Maybe don't say that. Maybe that's the green. So I go up there and then of course,

now they're just like listening for the, and I was fucking. Like that's your hook. It was, I was realized I was bombing and I just was like, I'm going to just play to the camera. I told him I'm going to play to the camera and act like I'm killing. Yeah.

And I finished the set and I was like, just like act like I was killing told him, I'm going to play to the camera and act like I'm killing. Yeah. And I finished the set. I was like, just like act like I was killing. But then all these comics came up to me. I was like, that's going to cut well. They're going to edit that. When they edit that, it's going to be fine. It's kind of nice to have the support. But I mean, that's also like every one of them

has been there on some level. But it was also the thing where people couldn't, then someone said, we couldn't hear you. I was like, I did a sound check. I mean, it's not, they probably, sound was probably bad.

I mean, but just like, how often do you do a sound check for a TV show? And then, yeah. Do you feel like you're still learning

as a comedian? Yeah. I mean, I do like to like, occasionally go see a standup. like it's usually i mean the one who i've seen the most in new york is doug stanhope when he comes down i'll just go sit in the audience i don't really watch a lot of stand-ups like yeah i'm in a club with them i guess if i'm just kind of waiting for them waiting to go on i do but i don't sit down so i mean i often like to just

watch someone and go oh that's that's what i do that's kind of cool just like in general that's what i do and or just seeing what they can get away with or what oh they're talking about this pretty dark subject yeah and they're pulling it off but i have that the two people i try to see when they're in town are maria banford and don stanhope she's she's the two of them she's from another planet. Good, man. Yeah, and Doug is amazing because, I mean, both of them are amazing because they're fearless. Yeah, yeah. And Doug is amazing, I think, because he's 100% willing to lose the audience.

Like watching Stanhope, watching Bamford, there are a few people who you watch and go like, oh yeah, I could learn from that. Yeah, or sometimes it's just like, not to be faux humble, but you just go, man, I ain't doing that. I wish I was, but I'm not doing that. Yeah. That's next level shit. And it is inspiring in a way.

It's like, why don't I try to do that? Right. Not that I'm gonna act to like Maria Bamford style act, but her level of like just quality and interesting this. What was your first job? Job, job? Job, job, yeah. That was at a country club in Tamarack, Florida,

kind of maintaining the clay tennis courts. Like you'd drag them, you would get a golf cart with a brush behind it. Yeah. It's going to drive. And I remember it paid $3.50 an hour, which was like well above minimum wage. Oh, wow. This was a long time ago. Wow. So that, I think that was my first job. And then I worked at McDonald's. Yeah. Do you work at McDonald's? I never worked at McDonald's. Really? I worked at Super Stop and Shop as a bagger. All right, yeah. I worked at Albertson's. As a bagger?

Yeah. I think it's the only place I got fired from. Did you get fired? What'd you get fired for? It was nothing like I did. I think I had to go on vacation. I had to go away. And when I came back, I didn't have a job.

So I guess that's fired. Did you ever get fired? I've never talked to anybody as a comic who's been fired. Have you been fired off a week? Yeah, I was about to bring that up. When you started that question, I go, I wonder if he's about to ask this. I was opening for Paul Mooney at Caroline's.

And, you know, it wasn't like I wasn't being hated but I certainly wasn't being loved yeah and it wasn't like this crowd's turning on me but it was clearly I wasn't there they I wasn't what they wanted yeah and I just remember the Booker remember Jocelyn yeah. She kind of just came up to me and I was like, yeah, I know. Kind of just, oh my God.

Yeah, I know. Todd, I think, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't even think she had to say this isn't working out. I wasn't like, what do you mean?

I was like, yeah, let's, Oh my gosh. So I guess in that sense I was fired. Did they pay you out? I don't remember. I know that I've always really,

I'm always pretty diligent about making sure I get paid out. But they probably, they probably did. The crazy thing that you and I probably have in common because we worked Carolines a lot in that era

was prom shows. You probably did prom shows. Oh, God, I forgot. I did prom shows. That was a milestone for me when I said no more prom shows. I'm going to give context to the listeners. Okay.

This is the thing that I don't even think people can comprehend, which is at comedy clubs in New York City, there was a period of time, and maybe that period of time still exists, where the grownups were trying to come up with something for their high school prom kids to go do that and didn't involve drinking. Perfect idea.

Yeah. Comedy nightclub. And so you and I both would be booked on these shows where we're essentially performing for 16-year-olds who don't want to be there. And also you would go on at like 3 o'clock in the morning or something. Literally your spot time, you get an email that said 3 a.m. Right.

Or even later. Sometimes the spot time would say, spot, 3.30 a.m., 3.45 a.m. And you're like, it is, yeah, it's kind of like there are those times where you're like, wow, where you just go, I got to say yes to everything. And then I do remember like just doing one in particular

where they're just like, I'm getting, they're yelling shit. It's like, I'm getting yelled at by a 17-year-old who took a limo here. And like for $75? I mean, actually that sounds pretty good. so you want bits that you you can me with? Yeah, theoretically, yeah. Well, one I've been doing that I've been kind of pulling off is a true story about I was on a flight. I think it was to Hawaii, and it was like 10 hours. And the guy sitting in front of me every five minutes

wrapped both his hands around the back of his seat. Okay. And he was blocking my screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was kind of like... I'm not like a confrontational person, especially I have no idea what's on the other side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. the screen and i said you know i'll come up with a caption like blocking my view of 500 days of summer and it kept happening kept happening the flight eventually lands the doors open paramedics rush on no and start treating this guy he'd been in some sort of agony the whole time no and then i

i mean i ended by saying but there's a happy ending. I didn't post the picture. Oh, my God. But it was – That's a twisty one. Yeah, yeah. That's a great bit. I mean, have you done it on stage? Yeah, I've done it, and I've gotten it closer because at first it was hard to sort of explain what the guy's doing. But then I just said, you know, he wrapped his hands around the back of his seat.

Right, you do the physicality. And then I said he blocked my – because just saying – i didn't know that they would understand that block my screen i would always be like at the beginning i was like you know there's a tv on the seed net and then it gets all clunky right i just blocked my screen they always figured out i guess they know what i'm talking about but yeah so there's that one that's a great that's a great bit i feel like what i i mean it's like the reason why i like your all your joke writing it's like it's such an economical picture yeah like we get the whole story yeah essentially of like five hours condensed into like four sentences yeah and it has so many turns to it yeah i was pretty happy that i was able to pull that one off and because i thought this one's going to be too rough to make clear.

And I sort of figured it out on some level. I guess it's pretty much done. Yeah. Unless you got anything for me. No, I mean, I guess the question is like, if, it's just, it's like what we're talking about earlier like storytelling versus like short jokes it's like you could extrapolate the whole thing out and have it be longer and go

through your thought process through the whole thing you know what i mean like it because there it is a full long story but as it is. But as it is, it's so strong. Yeah. It's interesting that audiences I found, I haven't done it a ton of times, they'll either be like, once I say that paramedics are out, they'll be like, oh.

Right. Or they'll start laughing. And I don't know which is better for my punchline, but it's kind of cool when they are upset and then I go, no, this is a happy ending. I didn't post the picture. There's that one. You want more?

I love it. Yeah, give me more and then I'll throw some in mine. There's one, I guess it's sort of working, where I went to join a gym and I was taking a tour of a gym and the guy, you know, those people are always, Weasley salespeople

and he's like, he's like, we have 12 different locations. Every location has a pool except this one. And I was like, I'm sorry, what was that?

Yeah, every location has a pool except this one. And I was just like, you're just you're just telling me great stuff that's at other gyms there's a great there's a great uh gym in san diego there's nine pools uh you're not going there either but you are going to the worst location of this gym and then i do think about how he uh he um they was taken in the cubicle to seal the deal, you know,

and he's like, yeah, this pre-printed list of membership plans, like $900. He takes a pen and crosses it out, right, $700. Oh, my gosh, yes. Like I'm supposed to go, oh, my God. Are there cameras in this place? You just acted on a crazy impulse. Like how stupid are you thinking? But it kind of ends with,

I'm just out of shape. I'm also stupid. That's a little Brian Regan. So, I mean, I guess that one, it's not much more to that one. Yeah. No, that's the thing that's crazy about gyms is that in my adult life,

I've realized that gyms are the used car salesman. Oh, yeah, definitely. Because even if you sit there and they're like, I don't know. It's like $1,200 and if you want some sessions, it's a $900 extra. Yeah, I don't know. All right, I'll give you the sessions for free. Oh, okay, that didn't take much. I'm glad I hesitated four seconds.

And then once you sign up, you go, okay that didn't take much glad i hesitated four seconds and then he got then he fucking once he's signed up he got what if i just kept going right just walked right i'd be like but it's like you need to go into gym negotiation with like nothing to lose right right it's almost like you need to go this is so close to my apartment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. But yeah, it's kind of like, can't you just tell me, give me a price and we'll do it that way? Yeah. It's a little dance we're doing, but you got some. This is the thing about, I was in a hotel and I was watching an ad for heartburn medication. And all I could think was, that pizza looks so good.

I got to get some of that heartburn medication brand pizza. I don't know if that's what they're getting at, but I was sold. So you're saying the heartburn commercial made you hungry for pizza? Yeah, it did. It's based on a true experience. I was like, oh yeah, that looks good. It's like heartburn's just part of the deal.

Yeah, I might get heartburn. Yeah. I get pizza and heartburn. And then I say I'm always shocked when I see pizza, ads for pizza, because I feel like we're sold on pizza. Like I think that all they need is just a half second of screen time that says remember pizza. And I'd be like, oh, right, yeah, I forgot about pizza.

I love it. And then I say there's no ads for good pizza. Good pizza's confident in their work. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, people will show up. We did the work. It's kind of like the restaurants

where they have a barker outside. We're like, come on in. You're like, you can't be a good restaurant. Yes, that's right. There's no ads for good things in general. There's no ads for Paris, but there are ads for New Hampshire. Come to New Hampshire, we got bad pizza. See, if that were my joke, I'd be like,

you never see an ad for my comedy. That's my style. This is completely just a premise, but I feel like people can be pretty forgiving unless they think you're cutting a line. That's so funny. Then there's no mercy. Because I remember there's times I've been like,

because sometimes you go to a coffee shop and you see people standing like, I can't tell if they're waiting for their order or they have an order. Yeah. And if you make the move it's like all right this yeah it's gonna be all right yeah mistake yeah not out to god that's i don't know if there's a joke there but no i think that that's that's an example of like the punch line is so strong there's like i don't know how you follow it. Oh. You know what I mean? Just the cutting the line? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's such a great, it's such an immediately identifiable truism.

Yeah, we'll put that, that's backburnering now. Backburner. You got more? Well, I'll say this, which is that I'm intimidated, like you're throwing jokes at me and they're great. I'm intimidated by adding jokes because I feel like you're such a veteran, brilliant joke writer that I'm like, oh, I don't want to try to pitch on this. You can do that.

You know what I mean, though? I mean, I wouldn't let anyone do it, but I would let you do it. Oh. I wrote this. My wife and i do a lot of sexting the other night she wrote the ants in the kitchen attacked the english muffins and i wrote man i want to fuck you and she wrote i'm gonna freeze the pumpernickel and i knew what she meant that's funny it's a fun one that's funny uh yeah she literally sent me a video maybe I'll include this she literally sent me a video today of ants

on the honey that I just bought for my tea it was a video it was like there's an ants party it's also funny I would have thought you were lying about that

like she's here's evidence oh my god so the last thing we do on the show is is working out for cause oh yeah where if you have a non-profit that you'd like to contribute to we will will contribute to them. With the Israel-Gaza conflict, Doctors Without Borders, which is, I know it's not the most- That's a great one. Left field one, but they apparently do great work. Doctors Without Borders, that's great.

Yeah, let's do that. So we'll contribute to Doctors Without Borders. We'll link to them in the show notes, encourage people to contribute as well. And I can't recommend all your specials that are on YouTube. Yeah, the newest one is called Domestic Short Hair. It's on YouTube for free. For free.

Thanks for having me. I've wanted to do this for a while. You know what? I waited so long to do this podcast, I've worked everything out. Is that funny? It's called Working It Out, right? Yeah, yeah.

It's called Working It Out. You got me too late. I've already worked it all out. You don't have to add that. I like it. That's called Working It Out. You got me too late. I've already worked it all out. You don't have to add that. I like it. That could be a bonus track. Working it out, because it's not done.

We're working it out, because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. I love that Todd Berry, his latest comedy special, Domestic Short Hair,

is on YouTube for free. You can follow him on Instagram at ToddBarry. You can watch the full video of this interview on my YouTube channel at Mike Birbiglia. Check that out and subscribe because we're going to be posting more and more

videos. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia, associate producer Mabel Lewis, consulting producer Seth Barish, assistant producers, Gary Simons, and Lucy Jones. Sound mix by Ben Cruz. Supervising engineer, Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to

Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Hopfall, as well as David Raphael and Nina Quick. Mike Insiglieri's Mike Berkowitz. Special thanks to Jack Andenhoff and Bleachers for their music. Of course, my wife, the poet, J. Hope Stein. Special thanks, as always, to our daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening.

If you're enjoying the show, rate and review on Apple Podcasts. That really helps out the show. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. You know, we talked about cats on this episode. And maybe you're at the local animal shelter and you're about to adopt a cute little cat and all of a sudden your enemy is there and they want to adopt the same cat. Well, here's the trick. You distract them. You go, hey, before you adopt that cat, maybe you

should check out this podcast where creatives talk about their process and they work out new material. Then they'll look at their phone and start to download episodes. And while they're doing that, you adopt the cat. Then you will have the cat and they will have a new podcast to enjoy. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next time.