Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 114. Jo Firestone Returns: Fact Check This Episode

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

Jo Firestone joins Mike for her second appearance on Working it Out. In addition to just being named the head writer of the newest late night show on network TV, Jo just published a comedic murder mystery called “Murder on Sex Island” and proclaims she is *nothing* like the book’s protagonist even though the similarities are striking. Jo also explains why there’s so much dust in her purse, and posits that the scariest part of haunted houses aren’t actually the jump scares, but rather the promise of nudity.Please Consider Donating To: UNICEF

So I moved up to Upper Manhattan about a year and a half ago. And I was like, you know, the clubs are so close. I should probably do the clubs. I did this set where this couple was making out really hard. Yeah, I've seen that. And the host was obviously like, okay, we've seen you guys making out. You guys can go home now. Go home and make out.

Go home and make out go home and make out and so then uh they were like the woman of the couple was like basically she didn't like being called out for making out okay and she starts screaming i'm gonna kill myself okay that's a little rash the host is like just, I didn't mean it. And she goes, I'm going to kill myself. She says it five times. I'm going to kill myself. The host is like done with dealing with her. Okay.

Please welcome Joe Firestone. That's exactly right. That is the voice of the great Joe Firestone, the one and only Joe Firestone. Joe Firestone was one of our earliest guests on Working Out. If you haven't listened to that one, go back and listen to that one. It's an American classic.

We talk about pizza a lot. We tell a lot of jokes about pizza. It's so fun. She is, Joe Firestone is just a one-of-a-kind person and comedian. She does stand-up. She's invented board games. She wrote a book called Murder on Sex Island,

which is hilarious, and I highly recommend. On top of all that, she was just named the head writer of the new show that's going to follow Stephen Colbert, hosted by Taylor Tomlinson, called After Midnight. She is on fire. So we have a great chat today. It's a wild episode. It is unlike any other episode we've ever done. I should tell you this

week that my special, The Old Man in the Pool, is coming out on Netflix. I am so thrilled for you to see it. I feel like you've all, as listeners of the show, people who have come to see different incarnations of it over four years, have been a part of the process. And I so appreciate it. I can never thank you enough for being part of the process. It's on Netflix now. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. You can watch that on Netflix now, and then I'll do you one better. You can watch the special on Netflix, and then I'm doing my new hour on tour in 24 cities, and hopefully you live in one of these cities.

Big Sky, Montana, Vancouver, Seattle, Walla Walla, Portland, Oregon, and then a whole bunch of Florida. St. Petersburg, Florida, Jacksonville, Florida, Orlando, Miami, Florida. Orlando. Miami. And then Colorado. If you live in Colorado, I think really high odds that I'm coming near you. Aspen.

Beaver Creek. Fort Collins. Denver. And then Texas. Forget about it. Dallas. Houston. San Antonio.

One city to be named later for reasons out of my control but that's exciting stay tuned one other city that I've gone to a lot that's a hint and I premiered one of my movies that's maybe I've given away too much but so be it

then I'm going to Troy, New York Rochester Toronto Atlanta Charlotte Richmond and then Washington D.C. where I started out doing stand-up comedy over 20 years ago. All this is on Burbigs.com.

The best way to find out about it is joining the mailing list. I send out these little notes. Join the mailing list. I've sent one recently about Florida. I sent one about clean comedy. I sent one about trailers. I write these kind of ruminations and fun things to my mailing list, and then I send the tour dates,

and you're the first to know about when shows are going on sale. So I have this great chat with Jo Firestone today. You may have seen Jo on The Tonight Show, on Jo Perra Talks With You. She hosts a bunch of comedy shows here in New York. One of them is called Butter Boy, which I love. Littlefield. I've performed on it a lot.

She made a card game called Fruits, which I love to play with my family. She wrote a book called Murder on Sex Island, which is just pure, uncut Jo Firestone humor. It's so good. We talk about all that today. So excited for you to enjoy my conversation with the great Joe Firestone.

You're off social media. Yeah. I got off. It's really, but you know, they don't want you to get off. Oh, yeah, you're right. So you have to say why. And I was like, there's all these choices. And I said, I chose, I was like, there's all these choices. And I said, I chose,

I don't, it's too much time. And then they were like, well, just erase it from your phone. And then they didn't let me delete it. So I had to keep picking the different options that would let me erase it. Like you finally have to say, I just don't want to be here anymore. And then they're like, okay. I feel like I'm hoping that that's the beginning of a trend. I don't think so. No? I never have started a trend in my life, but it's possible. What is it with you?

First of all, you do stand up. You make a card game called Fruits. You wrote a book called Murder on Sex Island. You're like the Ben Franklin of comedy. It's really tough. You just like do all these things. He had a lot of tough stuff. I don't recall.

Yeah, sure. I'm just thinking of the inventions. Yeah, I guess. Who's another inventor we can bring up? No, let's go with Benjamin Franklin. Da Vinci. Yes. You're like the Da Vinci of comedy.

Well, here's go with Benjamin Franklin. Da Vinci. Yes. You're like the Da Vinci of comedy. Well, here's the thing. Because Da Vinci was a painter and also made inventions, yeah? I'm not trying to do all these things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not trying to do all these things. Each thing I think will be the hit. Okay? And then when it flops, I gotta pivot. Right?

I keep thinking these are gonna be the hit. Okay? But then I wrote the book thinking Murder on Six Highlands the book's gonna be a hit don't have to leave my house anymore right gonna be Dan Brown level

which is of course the goal sure yes and then but then I tried to publish it yeah

and everyone was like what are you you said this is not a publishable book and then I was like, what are you saying? This is not a publishable book. And then I was like, what? Oh, that's too bad.

That's too bad I did write the full book. That's always a fun response when you write a book is from the people who publish books is this is not a publishable. Yeah, they said, don't touch me. And so then I did try to, then I kind of had to pivot again. And then I did try to pivot again. And then I thought, well, this is going to be time for the next thing. So what's the next thing?

Right now, it's hard to say. I did buy a camera. Okay. And I thought maybe I'll switch to camera stuff. But then camera, I couldn't believe. You buy a camera.

Have you ever bought a camera? Sure. You can't just buy a camera. You need lenses. You need a lens. You need a bag. You need something to clip into it. You need a bag.

You can't just keep it in a box. You need a battery charger. Yeah. You need a tube that goes to the camera to the computer. Yeah. You need, what's that to the camera, to the computer. Yeah. You need, what's that thing? A card. A card, like an SD card. I can't believe it. Yeah. You need something to format the card. Yeah. This is all very involved. So when you say you bought a camera, you're saying that that is a project unto itself? Like I asked like, what are you working on? You said you bought a camera. for what like for which thing

I really want to make a movie where women are getting ready okay I like that I'm in just kind of showing women getting ready like the first 10 minutes of Devil Wears Prada yeah or like that

and you know in Terminator when Sarah Connor and her roommate are getting ready before they get shot? Yeah. That. That, yeah. I just love that scene. That's what people are clamoring for. I think that's good.

I really like that. And then there's no plot. They get ready, they go out the door, and it credits. I do think that a lot of people clamor for plot. Yeah. But a lot of people do want to see women getting ready. That's interesting. So many steps.

Do you go, I don't mean to be crude, do you go from naked to dressed? I've never been naked. When I'm getting ready, I never have been naked. We're going to fact check this. Okay. That's fine. We're going to speak with your boyfriend.

Okay. We're going to speak with your landlord. Sure. My landlord's always in there. One of my favorite things about your stand-up is, and the audio book of Murder murder on sex island which you read thank you for doing it one of the things by the way it's available as a podcast so people could listen to it for free but what you point out is at the end of every chapter you go but also you

could buy the book yeah and i think that's like probably the funniest thing I've ever heard on an audio book. Really tough. Really tough. When you self-publish, you really are left. I had the book release event a month before the book came out. Yeah. Okay. If you Google the title, Jeffrey Epstein results pretty much exclusively.

That's hard. It is hard. That's hard. It is hard. That's hard. Yeah. When you make a dream project like murder on sex island, you hope that in the Google results, an actual sex island is not in the results, but alas. That's really tough. It's really tough to be linked to him. That's tough. That's tough. It's really tough to be linked to him. That's tough. Because, you know, was he murdered?

Right. Was he murdered? Yeah. Did he have a sex? Did he have a sex? I don't know. He did have one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So this book, is this a serious book or a humorous book? I guess here's the thing. I took a class on mystery writing. Yeah. Okay. Really awesome class. Did not even have to show my face. Oh. The teacher just emailed out. Right. Assignments. Wow.

Incredible. Okay. So I took this class on mystery writing. Okay. Which is pretty formulaic. Yeah. If you don't, I mean, do you read a lot of mysteries? I just read yours. Okay. Which is pretty formulaic. Yeah. And you read a lot of mysteries. I just read yours. Okay. That's it. Well, so they're pretty formulaic, right? The only thing that you really can change is who the detective is. Oh, okay. And so then I was like, well, I'm going to write a really juicy, sexy detective story.

Right. But then I found I was a little uncomfortable with penetration. And so there is, unfortunately, no penetration in the book. No one's naked. And, yeah, almost no one's naked. So that's tough. I wish I was in a place to write penetrative scenes, but, unfortunately, that's really not something I'm comfortable with.

The protagonist of your book is Luella. Mm-hmm. And it's the Sex Island detective protagonist. Is Luella Jo Firestone? No, I need to make that super clear. If I was confronted with a murder, I would not be at all interested in finding out more. I don't believe your answer. No, I don't want this to seem autobiographical. That's the most humiliating thing I could imagine. This will, this first, I can't. It feels, when I'm reading the

book, it feels like you talking. I hate, I hate it that you think this i hate that i can't i can't imagine a more i think you're outed no here no this is it i refuse you're luella no i'm not so one of my favorite things about you is that because we've done a lot of shows together is you either always seem like you're sort of almost laughing, but then when I'm saying to you now, it's like you're unfazed, but then you're almost laughing during your jokes. Interesting. How do you feel? And on the audio book. Interesting.

How do you feel? First of all, you know what I'm talking about, right? I've heard people have told me that it sounds like I'm about to cry. So being about to laugh does seem a little bit better. Do you think you're always about to laugh or always about to cry? I've never done either one. So you've never been naked. No.

You've never laughed and you've never cried. Mm-hmm. Well, I have my work cut out for me today in this interview. Because what you're, you're filibustering, everything I'm asking, it seems like you're denying, but I know certain things to be true. For example, I've seen you laugh. I have not seen you naked, and I have not seen you cry. This is gerrymandering. In what way? I guess in the way that you said filibuster. I'm also using a government term.

Yes. Smart. Thanks. And basically gerrymandering, basically you're doing, you're drawing lines. Drawing lines across the sand. Drawing lines across, yes. I'm creating borders that don't exist necessarily. That's right. That's exactly what I mean. Yeah, I'm redistricting Joe Firestone's personality.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Or Luella. No, no, no, no. We're going to take that again. Or Luella. Absolutely not. We're going to just take that one more time and just say yes this time. Or Luella. Absolutely not. We're going to just take that one more time. Or Luella.

Cannot. Okay. So years ago, you and I did a college. We actually, speaking of filibustering and gerrymandering. Yes. We did a show called Stand Up and Vote where we performed. I think it was at Ithaca College. Sounds right.

It was in this big basketball gym or something like that. I left my shoes there. What? How? You just took them off? I guess I must have brought two pairs of shoes, left the other pair of shoes. Okay, so—

Emmy Blotnick had to get them. Oh, Emmy Blotnick. Yeah, she oh Emmy Blotnick yeah she was on the show very funny comedian she got him for you she saved the shoes that's a good resolution and it was a good the audience loved you

your one of my favorite things about your comedy is you you are willing to take chances with an audience in a way that I would say most comedians aren't. And I feel like it works most of the time. For example, in Ithaca, I remember you did a very heavily audience participation-based bit. Do you remember this?

I think so. Can you describe the bit? Because I feel like I'll butcher it. I don't remember it, but I really do wish I had a better memory. Like one time this man came up to me on the street and he's like, in a show, you made me and my son eat holes of American cheese and put it on our faces. And that was for comedy. And I was really horrified. That was a comedy bit. Yeah, but I don't— You thought that was funny. And that's tough. You thought that was funny. That's tough.

Yeah. And then another person came up to me and was like, you made me lie face down on the floor. Oh, I see your sense of humor. That's tough. Yeah. That's tough. Lie face down on the floor. And so I—

Classic Joe Firestone. I wish that I didn't—either that I remembered it or that I didn't do this. Right? These are two options that I think a lot of people feel about their past. Yeah. Either that you remember it or you didn't do it. So that's tough. But I do, yeah, I think, well, so, okay.

So I moved up to Upper Manhattan about a year and a half ago. Okay. So then I was doing all these shows in Brooklyn, right? That's where I was mostly doing comedy. And then I went up there to Upper Manhattan and I was like, you know, the clubs are so close. Yeah. I should probably do the clubs. Right.

So that I don't have like an hour commute or whatever. Right. I had a steep learning curve. About comedy clubs. About comedy in general. Yeah, about comedy in general, yeah. They were like, what is wrong with you? What's wrong with you, yeah. And I kept having to be like, like I kept having to say over and over, I am not from the hospital, I'm not from the hospital, right? Right. Because people were looking at me like with true. What do you mean by I'm not from the hospital? People thought I was from the hospital. Which hospital? Like a psychiatric hospital? Hard to say. Okay. But they really. I'm not from the psychiatric hospital is what you're getting at. Hard to say. Okay. Okay. So they were.

Filibustering. Hard to say. So, so basically they were like looking at me like, uh-oh, in trouble, right? Uh-oh, in trouble what? I just can't, I can't, I really had to learn really quickly how to do comedy. Okay. Because I don't know what I was doing. These were sort of mainstream comedy clubs versus where you often play, like Littlefield, Bell House, Union Hall in Brooklyn, which are kind of like what you describe as like alt comedy rooms. Yeah.

Where like Brooklyn kind of like people in the know, young people who are kind of interested in off the beaten path comedy. Yeah. Go and are relatively supportive audiences. Relatively. Yeah. These people were like, what have you done? Yeah.

How did you get here? Yeah. And that were like, what have you done? How did you get here? Yeah. And that was, yeah. So over the year and a half, I really have. Did you stop going there? No. You still go? No, because it was, you know, you get $40 and you leave your house for 20 minutes.

Oh, that is good. Really good. That is good. So it's hard to say. Love that cold hard cash. You've done the clubs. I have, yeah. I really started at those clubs

20 years ago. You knew how to do that. Arguably I might still. Yeah. It's really, it's like you basically have to be like, if you don't do a joke with a punchline you basically have to deliver whatever you're saying in such a way that is so clear to

them that you know what you're doing that you're intending humor yes yeah otherwise they really think that you've wandered here and that you need to be escorted away. Yes. Which is a tough feeling to kind of face. Yeah. You don't want to feel like that. So that was, yeah, that was a tough one. I did this set, okay, where this couple was making out.

Yeah, I've seen that happen. Really hard. Yeah, I've seen that. Were they naked? No. They'd already gotten ready. Okay? So they were making out really hard.

There was two shows. This was the late show. So they'd stayed through the early show making out. Yeah. They decided to continue making out and see the second show. And the host was obviously like, okay, we've seen you guys making out. You guys can go home now. Yeah. Go home and make out. Go home and make out. And everybody host was obviously like, okay, we've seen you guys making out. You guys can go home now. Yeah.

Go home and make out. Go home and make out. And everybody had seen them making it. There was really lots of tongue. Yeah. And so then they were like, the woman of the couple was like, basically, she didn't like being called out for making out. Okay.

Yeah. I could see that being a conflict. And she starts screaming, I'm going to kill myself. Okay. It's a little rash. Tough. Yeah. Okay.

Meanwhile, the host is like, just, okay, I didn't mean it. And she goes, I'm going to kill myself. She says it five times. I'm going to kill myself. The host is like, I don't want to deal with this anymore. Moments before this, she's making out. The ups and downs. Yeah, yeah.

Talk about a rocky evening. I can't even believe it. Okay, so then the host is like done with dealing with her. Okay? Please welcome Joe Firestone. That's exactly what happened. I'm sorry. I've heard a lot of hell gig stories of bad introductions.

That probably takes it. It's tough. Making out all night. I'm going to kill myself. I'm going to kill myself. Please welcome Joe Firestone. Really tough. So how'd it go?

Bad. Bad. Like how bad? This is basically what my set sounds like to someone that doesn't know me. How do you know that? I know. Who told you? Listen, I've seen what, but basically it's like that was, I was like, I don't know whether to address this.

I don't know whether to keep talking to this woman. Wait, how do you sound? How do I sound? I just don't know how you arrived at that conclusion. You know what it is. You know what I mean? Sort of. But basically it's like, so they like they really just needed some grounding.

They needed someone to come in and release. To be a really straightforward, straight ahead, set up punchline, mainstream comedian. Release the tension. Release the tension, yeah. That's been created. That's what they needed from you, and you were not ready to do that. That was my first time. That was my first time. That was my first time at the club.

Wow. So what'd you do as your bit? What'd you open with as a joke? Did you have a joke? I said, I'm not supposed to be here. I'm so sorry. I'm not supposed to be here. I'm so sorry is a great line.

That must have gotten a laugh, right? No, people were like, mm-mm. Yeah, yeah. They were nodding, affirming. Tough, tough, tough. Affirming that to be true. And then any jokes after that? Did you tell jokes?

Yeah, I tried. I tried some jokes, but I said— What's a quintessential Joe Firesone joke, if you're comfortable saying? Like a joke I'm saying right now? Yeah, like what's a joke that would be—that works, and even in a club like that, might work pretty well, even in weird circumstances. Okay, I was, this joke doesn't work. Okay. But I'll say this, I do this joke a lot.

I'm actually asking you for a joke that works. I'm not sure I have that right now. But basically I did this joke for a bit that was always, I'd say consistently alienating. Okay. Where I said that I always, I'd say, consistently alienating. Okay. Where I said that I feel like I'm getting older because my purse is filled with dust. Oh, that's got to do well.

No? People are saying, help her, help her. Why she got dust in her purse. My purse is filled with dust. And then it's like, well, the dust, I know what it's called. It's called a woman's sand, and that'll fill up the hourglass of your life. And when it gets to the top, you're dead. This is a great joke.

You know, it's not really a setup. Well, yeah, it's got a setup. I'm getting old. And then the punchline is, filled with dust. I think. I guess you could say that. You know, in elementary school, we learned subject predicate.

You know subject predicate? Oh, yeah. Certainly, yeah. So, like, you take a sentence and you divide it into subject predicate. Right. You're diagramming a sentence. Yeah.

And I really didn't understand that lesson at all. And I would just put the line arbitrarily somewhere in the sentence. Yeah. You diagram it sort of in the middle. You just cut it in the middle somewhere. And that's, I'm afraid, what you just did with the joke. You said, that's the setup. That's the punchline. You don't really know. Don't really know. You just sort of talk and say funny things, what you think are funny things, and then you hope that it goes well. Well, I guess you do try to shock and surprise. Right.

But it's interesting because I think that when you do comedy, you defy the set-up punchline construction in a way that really works. Like we did that Ithaca show. You killed. It wasn't set-up punch, but you killed. Like, the audience loved you. That's nice. They were ready to vote.

You know what I mean? We got them in a good place. Do you think so? We were in, like, a big gymnasium. It was hard. Some of those gyms are just right. It's hard to say. What is a joke that you have that you think is funny and never works?

But you keep doing it. There was this joke I wrote that I thought was so good. If you want to feel like you're from the future, you should Google your aunt. I don't get it. That's the end of the joke? Mm-hmm. Wait, but, okay, so what happens if you Google your aunt? Her picture pops up.

Okay. Okay. Right, so that's kind of a futuristic thing because in the past you couldn't Google your aunt. I guess your aunt's supposed to be family. You're doing that thing with your voice right now, which is like you're laughing, but then you're like, you said earlier,

it's like you're crying. But she's supposed to be at the dinner table. What's the dinner table have to do with this? She's on Google Image. What are you talking about? I don't even know if she'd be on Google Image. Why would your aunt be on Google Image? At a show, I did this joke, and someone raised their hand and said,

what did that joke mean? What did they say, what? They said, what did that joke mean? They're right. They're not wrong to ask what does it mean. It's messed up. But, like, what does it mean. It's messed up. But like what does it mean? Have you ever had that?

I've Googled my aunt. No, I've never Googled my aunt. No, after a joke someone raised their hand. So this is called the slow round, and we ask a series of random questions. And one of them is, do you have a time that you remember where you were so scared that you ran away? Do you have a time that you remember where you were so scared that you ran away? I can't do haunted houses. Okay. Okay?

So I've run into several walls at haunted houses. Sorry? Like whenever there's a strobe light, I'll run into the wall. Okay. I get too scared, I'll run into the wall. So in other words, you're in a haunted house. There's some kind of ghoul or witch or something like that. Actor. Actor playing a ghoul or a witch. It's an actor. Can never forget it's an actor. Right. I have to keep that in mind. Right, you have to remind yourself it's an actor. It's an actor. It's just an

actor. It's just an actor. Probably would cross paths. Right. And so you went to a haunted house. Where did you go to a haunted house? Do you remember? I've been to a few, but each time I regret it. And then I went to an interactive play recently where you had to sign a waiver. To sleep no more? No.

Oh, another one? And you had to sign a waiver that you would be okay if you died. Are you doing that as a joke? No, that's real. I know, but that's a good joke. Oh, okay. Well, so then we went in and they're done? Wait, when you say you have a silent waiver that say you might die, like, did you read the waiver? Yeah. Andver that you might die, did you read the waver?

Yeah. And it says you might die. You're sure of this? Positive. Okay. We're going to have to fact check a lot of this interview. Not a problem. We have to be really careful what gets out in the universe.

Understood. So basically, in this play, they were like, just so you know, there will be one intermission and you will experience nudity. Oh, not your favorite thing. So this whole play, it's an interactive play. This whole play, I was nervous. When's the nudity coming? Yeah. You know? Yeah, of course.

The nudity comes at the very end. Yeah. Okay? It takes place in a mansion. And at the very end of the play, and I can't spoil this because it's already sold out and there are no more shows. So at the end of the play, one of the characters is getting tased by a doctor. Okay. The doctor's wearing leather shorts. Okay. And the doctor tases the guy in the genitals. Oh, God. Wait, are the genitals out at this point? The testicles are so affected by the tase

that they drop to the man's knees. Wait a minute. Hold on. Wait, are the testicles revealed at this point when they're tased? They plop out of his shorts. Because they're tased or pre-tased? Yes, because they're tased? They plop out of his shorts. Because they're tased or pre-tased? Yes, because they're tased.

So in other words, someone tases, one character tases another character in the genital area, but it's closed. And then the tase is so intense that the genitals pop out. And sag to the knees. And sag to the knees. But at that point, they're not real genitals. They're fictional genitals. They're like costume prosthetics. Mm-hmm.

Right. Right. This play had so many actors in it. Oh. How many? How many? Have you ever seen a play with like 25 actors? So many.

Yeah. Hadestown. Sure. Hamilton. Okay. You got me. Many others? Yeah.

25 factors is a lot, though. Maybe it's in a small space. Is that what it is? No, it's a big space. Oh, okay. Mansion. Yeah. Oh, it's a mansion.

It's in a mansion. So you've run... Long Island. It was in Long Island? Mm-hmm. On? On Long Island. I apologize.

So you went to on Long Island. Did you take the Long Island Railroad to get there? No, we drove. Oh, you have a car? No, my friend does. The way you tell stories is often leaving out key details. What details do you need to know? And I will answer them.

No further questions. When I look at your career, I'm just like, I don't fully grasp, like in the most complimentary way I could think of, like you're a little bit like Andy Kaufman in the sense that like, when I look at Andy Kaufman's career, I'm like, it's a puzzle to me. I don't fully understand. I'm like, it's a puzzle to me. I don't fully understand. I'm like, this guy was brilliant. I don't know what his endgame was

beyond just entertaining audiences in the strangest way that he could think of. What's your endgame? Oh, I don't really have an endgame. I've never had goals. But I think that I'll get an idea and I want to execute it, but I don't have goals.

Because I really don't understand. Because people keep telling me the world's going to end, and then those same people have five-year goals. Right. So I don't understand. Right. They either need to stop telling me that. They got to go one way or the other. Or they need to stop having a five-year plan.

What is people's favorite thing about you and least favorite thing about you? Whoa. Like friends? Yeah. Or mother? Your mother? Yeah. Yeah, sure, your mother.

What's your mother's least favorite thing about you? Okay, so I guess I have somewhat of an artistic temperament. Yeah. That would, that always gets to mom. But I guess I, uh, you're the first, you're the first person who's changed the question. You mean my mother? who's changed the question? You mean my mother? I really, who is voting? Who's voting?

Anybody. I mean, really anybody. I mean, friends, family, but I like mother. So you're saying artistic temperament, how does that manifest itself? You know, the ups, the downs. Yeah, the ups, the downs. But how do you, do you shout?

No, but I'm very, I can be very negative. Okay. And very discouraged. Right. So I'll be like, oh, well, I'm out of milk, so I guess I'll just step in front of a train. And so then you think, okay, well, we could get more milk. And then I'm like, but the train's right there. And they're like, well, you could also just stop.

And then I say, okay, fine. Next time. So I suck up. You're a handful. Sure, for sure. Yeah. So, and I guess, yeah, I guess the least favorite is I'm pretty negative. But I take this tap class, beginner's tap. Yeah.

And in the tap class, the teacher was like, Joe, you're smiling. You're always so happy. And I told that to my friends, and they're like, what is she talking about? That's so, they're like, wow, you really tricked her. That's like what I was saying about you earlier. I think I tricked you, too. Do you think so? I'm pretty negative.

I'm pretty negative. I don't know. This is, we need to open up our friendship a little bit more so that I can see this more negative side of you. It's not good. So I guess the least favorite thing is negative. What level of friends are we right now? What do you mean? Ten or one?

Yeah, one to ten. Your closest friend, ten. Your least close friend, acquaintance borderline, would be one. Well, I guess I'll say this. If you called me, I'd pick up. Huge. Okay? If I called you—

Phone ringing. Phone ringing. Mike Birbiglia, you pick it up. I say, oh, hold on a second. Right back at you. And I wouldn't think that necessarily that you'd want something. So we're phone pickup friends. Uh-huh.

Because I'll pick up your phone call, too. I hope so. Phone pickup friends. This-huh. Because I'll pick up your phone call too. I hope so. Phone pickup friends. This is huge. Yeah. I think it's a huge development because now we have knowledge that each other are phone pickup friends. Yeah. What's your hours of day?

Because I don't want to call you past like 9 p.m., for example. I guess. Or before 9 a.m. maybe. Yeah. Or 10 a.m. I guess I'm awake from 8 a.m. to 2 a.m. So you're open to me calling you at like 1 in the morning? I'm awake.

Okay, but are you going to put it on silent when you go to bed so that I don't wake you up? I don't think that will be an issue. Okay. This is huge, though. But you didn't answer what's the most, what's the positive thing people think about you. You know what?

If I say I'll do something i really do try to do it oh that's huge i'd really try yeah so i'll write it down because otherwise i won't remember so i'll remember i'll write it down so you got to do this and i'll really try to do that is there a song that makes you cry i would say the zombies song this will be our year this will be our year yeah, how does it go? This will be our year, took a long time to come. Da da, da da,

da da, da da, da da, da da. This will be our year, took a long time to come. I gotta check that out. I wish I could sing so bad. Why do you think that song makes you cry? Well, I usually listen to it right when the New Year happens, and I always think the New Year is kind of an emotional time.

Oh. Because you think back on the year, and you think back on your life, and you think back on who's in your life now, and who was in your life in previous New Years, and you think about, and that is a very hopeful song. Like, they're like, this year was bad, but next year is going to be good. What a beautiful sentiment. Sure.

For such a negative person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you were saying the thing about how you had to sign a release that you were gonna die yeah i had a thing i've been trying to do this a little bit as a bit about my daughter at the beginning of the summer broke her foot at this place called Urban Air.

I don't know if you've heard of these places. Trampoline? Yeah. Awesome. No, not good. She broke her foot. Tough. It's just like a warehouse full of trampolines.

That's the business model. Uh-huh. It was good. And, you know, kids go nuts, but like she, you know, it's not that safe. But I signed like, you know, you sign a thing that's like Willy Wonka. Yeah. Kind of like long form saying you're never going to sue them. And I'm not going to sue them, but I am going to speak about them comedically

and say comedically, maybe that shouldn't be a business. Tough, tough, tough, tough, tough. Yeah. I'm just being funny about it. Of course. I'm just having a funny thing. No big deal. Yeah, no big deal, it's just a funny thing. No big deal. Yeah, no big deal.

Just maybe they shouldn't have it. I'm not going to sue them. I signed a form that said I absolutely will not sue them. But I will also say, for the rest of the summer, my family did not do a lot of foot-based activities. It's not their fault. Oh, no. But it fault. Oh, no. But it happened.

Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. The whole foot broke? Yeah. There's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot of bones in the foot, but it was like she was in a cast. It was a whole deal.

Like a boy jumped in front of her, and then she came down on it the wrong way. And then at one point, I'm sitting on the couch with her watching TV, which is the vast majority of what we did this summer. And she goes, dad, boys are terrible. And I said, you don't know that half of it. I want to develop that as a joke because I think that's a funny conversation snippet. It's like boys are terrible. Because sometimes I have to explain to her like I was a boy. She's at the age where like I didn't love boys. It's like, all right, I was a boy.

Kind of still am in a way. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think it's like that's going to be, I guess you've got to think about conversations. It's going to be a lot of conversations. Oh, no, I know. Trust me. Whoa. Juicy wins. A lot of conversations. It's going to be a lot of conversations. Oh, no, I know. Trust me. Whoa, juicy ones.

A lot of conversations. A lot of conversations in my future. Yeah. Fortunately, she's a good talker. I do think that, you know, these things like these trampoline places and like the interactive plays, I think it's good to do these things. I know that it's risky. Yeah. But I think it's good to do these things. I know that it's risky. Yeah.

But I think it's good to do these things. Do you have new material you're working on that you would share with us here on the pod? So, well, I'm trying to work on this thing, but it's not good yet. Okay. Okay, so I'm trying to work on this joke because I joined the library.

Okay. Okay, and I'm trying to work on this joke because I joined the library. Okay. Okay. And I would join the library and I'm like, well, that's great. Did you all know that these things are just free? Okay. And then it's like, but then they said that you can donate books. And I say, is anyone spending any money around? That's a great joke joke but then they're like except we do not take textbooks or romance books okay and i say i understand the textbooks because they might be out of date but romance books the fact that they won't take that makes me think that they think we're fucking the books oh yes and then i think well I'm going to fuck a book, I'm not going to pay attention to the genre.

I'm going to try all different shapes. You know, if I'm going to bring paper to the genitals, I'm going to try, you know, try a lot. And that's when people say stop. Stop talking. Stop talking? That's when your audience says stop talking? I think it's a really strong joke.

I mean, I think, like, the fact that they say no romance novels is a really interesting twist that I would not have known. So, but I feel like you kind of have to, maybe it's crude, but I think you maybe have to get more specific that like, And you maybe have to get more specific that like they don't want you sort of having sex with yourself while holding their book because it belongs to them. That's right. That's how people would enjoy that. I think so.

To say that they'd fuck the book is a leap that people – that leaves people behind. And I think you can keep the joke, fuck the book, but then pivot to, when I say fuck the book, what I really mean is read the book and then have sex with yourself in proximity to the book, maybe brushing up against the book, which will be lent to someone else. That's right. People aren't worried you're going to put the book. That's right. Right, right worried you're going to put the book. That's right.

Right, right. Of course, of course. They don't think you're going to put the book in your vagina. Yeah, that's right. If I may be so crude. No, and that's kind of what I was leading the audience to believe. And then it kind of got pretty violent, I say pretty fast. So I think that maybe it's this idea of people are, it's not the genital on book. It's the genital juices

coming into contact with the book. I think that's what it is. I think that's what it is. That's right. Yeah. Okay. So then it might need a different turn, right? So then it's like, it's not about, they're not worried about you fucking just the, that book, right? They're worried about the juices and then there must be another just another punchline right at the very end right and maybe it's something in the universe of like um you know i think what they don't realize is that sometimes i'll have sex with myself when i'm reading a book about lizards that's good yeah i like that yeah just like another turn maybe it's not lizards maybe it's something else that you're more interested in you know what i mean and maybe it's not lizards, maybe it's something else that you're more interested in.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And maybe it's like kind of going in that direction. It's like, what else do you have sex with yourself near? Right? Where it's like, wow, I'm really, you know, it's crazy that people were so willing to take my KitchenAid mixer. Yeah. So maybe there's something kind of scaring people.

I love that. That's a much more economical version of what I'm pitching, and it's funnier. We'll see what happens. But maybe it's like— We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. No, that's super—to me, that's super strong. Really helpful to hear that it's about liquids and not—that's good.

I think that's right. I think like, it's like, what's funny about it in your head? And then like, if it's not working the way that you imagine, like, what are they not getting here? Yeah. What are they not grasping? Because what's fun, you know, Jake Johansson, the comedian, brilliant comedian, taught me this when I was starting out. Like, working the door in the 90seties, like I was opening for him. And he said, a lot of times, like it's, it's really about like conveying what is funny in your head. And, and, and like,

they don't know what's in your head. Yeah. And so you think they do, you think, you know what I mean? Like we all fall into that thing where we're like, oh, they get it. They know what I'm talking about. But it's like a lot of times the more you open it out and go like, what's the most verbose version of this joke? And then you're way over talk it. And then you're like, all right, let's trim back. Try to get each joke to 16 seconds.

I don't do that, no. That's a great joke. Do you have any other jokes? Let's see. I'm trying to get this joke about how I do get so worried about climate change. Yeah. And my friends will be like, the world is ending. And I really hate it.

I hate hearing that. Yeah. Because I start to spiral about like, do world is ending. And I really hate it. I hate hearing that. Because I start to spiral about like, do I have water? Yeah, sure. And I realized that I need to make new friends. That's good. Specifically Republicans. Because they're not worried. I need to go to someone.

They're not concerned. Don't worry, honey. The world's never going to end. It's getting colder. And then they say, I got a couple other things I want to talk to you about. The world's never going to end. It's getting colder. Yeah. And then they say, I got a couple other things I want to talk to you about. I say, I got to go. Bye.

But that's kind of how the joke goes. I'm super busy. I'm heading to the library to masturbate to a book about lizards. I'm swinging by KitchenAid. Don't ask any questions. A callback like that would really guarantee a star in the Hall of Fame. The final thing we do is working at FrCause. Is there a nonprofit that you'd like to contribute to?

Because what I'll do is I'll contribute to the nonprofit, link to them in the show notes, and encourage the listeners to contribute as well. Okay. I'm going to go with UNICEF. Okay. So I'm going to contribute to UNICEF. Have you heard of Children? Yeah. Well, they need help.

Oh, my gosh. Such a burn. It was my blind children? Yeah. Well, they need help. Oh, my gosh. Such a burn. It was my blind spot. Yeah. Children needing help. Yeah. But you really stuck it to me in this teachable moment. So I try to kind of end on a teachable moment.

And each podcast I do, okay, I know you have rituals around here. But each podcast I guest on, I do ask the host what they learned. About you? No. About life? About themselves. About myself, okay. What was the message you took?

About myself. I think it is, I just think that I think we are closer friends than I realized. Wow. Which has a lot of ramifications in relation to perception and your own perception, how often we're all wrong about ourselves. Because you're like, we're close enough friends, you can just call me, I'll pick up the phone. Oh, okay. Well, maybe I misread this, or maybe I misread that. Well, where did you think we were on the one to ten? I thought you were gonna

say like a six or a five. Okay, that's pretty good. Oh, okay, okay. So that's where you thought it was. Well, that's good. Drew Firestone, it has been an honor and privilege. Yeah, for sure. What a way to end.

Gorgeous. Working it out, because it's not done. Working it out, because there's no hope. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. I love talking with Joe Firestone. It's so much fun. You can get her book, Murder on Sex Island, at your local bookstore

or you can listen to the audiobook which is narrated by Jo Firestone and available as a podcast or you can do both. You cannot follow Jo Firestone on social media. She is off social media. But you can watch the full video of this on

my YouTube channel, at Mike Birbiglia. Check that out and subscribe because we're going to be posting more and more videos. Check out birbiglia.com to sign up for the mailing list. Our producers are myself,

along with Joseph Birbiglia and Peter Salamone, associate producer Mabel Lewis, consulting producer Seth Barish, assistant producer Gary Simons, sound mix by Shubh Saran, supervising engineer Kate Balinski. Special thanks to Marissa Hurwitz and Josh Afal,

as well as David Raphael and Nina Quick. My consigliere is Mike Berkowitz. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleasures for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Her book, Little Astronaut, is in bookstores now. Perfect for the holidays. Special thanks, as always, to our daughter Una, who built the original radio fort of pillows. If not for her, we wouldn't be here today.

And thanks, most of all, to you who are listening. If you're enjoying the show, rate and review. Go on Apple Podcasts. It really helps out the show. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Let's say, maybe you're at a Joe Firestone the show. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. Let's say, maybe you're at a Joe Firestone comedy show and there's people making out, let's say, in a distracting way.

You could approach them, tap them on the shoulder and go, hey, you know, this really is not the best place to be making out. Maybe you could do that at home. And then while you're at home making out, you could listen to a podcast about the creative process and how jokes are made. Thanks, everybody. I'll see you next time.