Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 120. Ronny Chieng Returns: Classic American Show Business

Episode Date: January 29, 2024

Ronny Chieng, one of the earliest and most popular Working It Out guests, makes a triumphant return. Ronny and Mike discuss the significance of Ronny’s chic onstage wardrobe, the similarities between practicing law and performing comedy, and whether or not it was Ronny who planted the Hasan Minhaj New Yorker story after all. Plus, why Ronny absolutely refuses to reveal his actual birthday.Please consider donating to APIAVote

By the way, was it you or Roy who planted the story about Hassan and the New Yorker? If it was anyone, it would be me. That is the voice of the great Ronnie Chang. Ronnie is a returning champion on the podcast. He was one of our earliest guests three years ago. Episode 13. Now he's back for 120. Episode 120.

And I couldn't be more excited about it. One of the funniest people I know. One of the funniest people I've ever met. If you're able to see him on tour, he is everywhere right now. As am I. Please stop the ride. Tour continues.

I just finished my shows in the Pacific Northwest. So fun. I go in February to Florida, St. Petersburg, Jacksonville, Orlando, and Miami Beach. Then in March, if you're in Colorado, brace yourself because I'm coming to your town with my brother, Joey Bag of Donuts. America's guest has planned a trip for us to go skiing, mostly for him to go skiing, and for me to perform comedy. I'll be in Aspen, Beaver Creek, Fort Collins, as well as Denver. We added a third and final show in Denver. On April 9th, I'll be in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is a newly added show. I'm at TPAC there, the Tulsa Performsa, Oklahoma, which is a newly added show. I'm at TPAC

there, the Tulsa Performing Arts Center, which is gorgeous. And then I go to Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and then three shows in Austin, Texas at the Moon Tower Comedy Festival. That's a fun comedy festival to go to. The lineup is phenomenal.

I was just looking at all the comics there the other day. I was really, really excited to just share the stage with a bunch of those folks. All right, I'm recording this update from the tour on my phone, but we added a third show in Chicago, which is unbelievable. It's at the Chicago Theater,

one of the most beautiful theaters in the world. And I thought I was going to be lucky enough to do one show there. And now we've added a second, which sold out. And now a third, which is on sale today. I really wanted to record this so that you would be the first to get the best tickets in the pre-sale, which starts today. And the code is PANCAKE.

And now back to past Mike. Mike in the past when I recorded the other things. I'll be in Los Angeles for the Netflix is a Joke Festival May 6th. There's only a few seats left for that one. Then I'll be in Troy. We just added a second show in Troy. I'll be in Rochester. Toronto we just added another show.

Atlanta, Charlotte, Richmond. We just added a third show in Washington, Toronto. We just added another show, Atlanta, Charlotte, Richmond. We just added a third show in Washington, D.C. in June. And then I've got a few more shows. Niagara Falls on July 5th, Sag Harbor, New York, which is in the Hamptons in New York, July 26th and 27th. All of those tickets are on Burbiggs.com. Join the mailing list to be the first to know about all the pre-sales and the codes and all of that.

But today I'm with Ronnie Chang. Ronnie Chang and I cover a lot of ground. We talk about the controversy surrounding The Daily Show. Who's going to host The Daily Show? We talk about Ronnie switching from being a lawyer to doing stand-up comedy and how similar those things are and different they are. And we talk about why Ronnie doesn't reveal his actual birthday.

I wished him happy birthday recently, and he said it is not my birthday. It's a great talk. Enjoy my conversation with the great Ronnie Chang. I texted Hassan last night. What do you have any questions for Rani? Our mutual friend Hassan Minhaj. Rani's really good at comedy because he's so good at complaining. That's his natural demeanor and voice cadence.

But when he's trying to be sincere, it sounds like he's trolling you. As a fun game, ask him to compliment you or give you advice. It will sound like he's making fun of you. We're not making fun of each other? That's really funny.

So, per Hasan, compliment me, but be sincere. Right. You have this pretty unique fashion sense that it's not bad but you also don't look super stylish you know i mean but you don't look not stylish you look like you know when you look at you you don't go this guy isn't stylish yeah but they also don't look at you and go this guy's super stylish yeah so in that you're in that great zone of wow just mediocrity

with fashion which you want to be which you want to be in that zone i think that you tipped it towards mediocrity at the end which is like a little bit of a diss no but you want to be in fashion in comedy because you don't want to be the you know you don't be too flashy you're right right but you also don't be a you don't want to be the, you know, you don't want to be too flashy. No, you're right. Right, but you also don't want to be a slouch. You don't want to wear a tuxedo in your special, for example. That's what makes it special. That's really nice. But you don't want to wear a tux to, you know.

I love that you did that, by the way. Thanks. That tux, did you, I was trying to get a handle on like what kind of tux that is. Because it's like a white tux in your recent special. Is it like a tux you'd wear to a wedding or like like what was the idea is like evening wear um it was the whole concept between for all my specials seems to be america classic american show business because that's yes yes yeah that's what i grew up with yeah and i always was like uh you know i wish

there was like an asian person in one of these things. And so I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to put myself in it. Oh my gosh. And so that's the visual theme for all the specials. So for the second special specifically, it became Indiana Jones in Hong Kong when he's in that bar. Yeah.

Yeah, he's wearing the white tux and he's, you know, in the Hong Kong bar. And, you know, Hong Kong bars have a very, it's like a Hong Kong art deco. It's a specific kind of thing. And so we found a bar in New York that did it. And it was a perfect venue

and they let us, you know, do whatever we wanted in there. And I'll never do that again. I'll never do it again. Because that's a very bad idea. For all the comics listening, everybody wants to do the intimate special, don't fucking do it.. I'll never do it again. Because that's a very bad idea. For all the comics listening, everybody wants to do the intimate special. Don't fucking do it.

Really? Don't do it. It cannot be done. That was your takeaway? Yeah. It cannot be done. Why? It can't be done.

It just doesn't have the effect because it'll feel smaller than you want it to feel. Yeah. Doug Stanhope did it. Sarah Silverman did it. Chappelle did it. Yeah. But it won't be. Sarah Silverman did it. Chappelle did it. Yeah. But it won't be.

There's a handful of people who have done it over the years and I've always clocked it as like, that's a choice. Yes. And so, it's like you're trying to,

I know the logic. I can hear all the comics already. They want to bring it back to where the material developed from. Right. It developed in small rooms. Let's capture the intimate setting.

It cannot be done. Do it in a fucking theater and that's it don't try to reinvent the wheel it's not meant to be reinvented is there really a unique approach

to promoting your special? to come on a podcast and just rip it to shreds? I mean I I stand behind my special I'm just saying no one else do it it's too tough

you should stand behind it's beautiful yeah it's saying no one else do it. It's too tough. You should stand behind. It's beautiful. Yeah, it was shot beautifully and all that. I just, I think I would have, I should have done it in a bigger theater. And then here's Hassan's other question. You should ask Ronnie why he's now picking up Brazilian jiu-jitsu at age 38.

Is it a midlife crisis? Damn, you got the inside info. I know. From my swan enemy. I got the good stuff. And he's got all the, he knows all my crap. By the way, was it you or Roy who planted the story about Hassan and the New Yorker? If it was anyone, it would be me.

But no, I don't know if we can even talk about it was he on the phone yeah oh yeah that's right um he's my friend i mean i i think hansen's great i think he got a bad deal yeah i think he got a bad deal i think um when he when he went on i was when it was going down i was actually in australia doing shows and so i was just like this isn't gonna stick that's what i thought yeah i was in i was in london yeah jimmy carr who's on this podcast yes said to me he goes this article came out about your friend hasan you should give him a call and i was like really like i go i read i skimmed the article. I've been thinking, he's like, yeah, just give him a call. Right.

Like, just to show support or whatever. And then I did, and I was like, oh, wow. I mean, the world is, like, in collapse. Yeah, and we had to report on this. And then we're like, these jokes don't line up with these jokes. I know. It's very weird to fact check comedy. That's so weird.

It's bizarre. Yeah. comedy that's so weird yeah to to to when so when when when news came out i was laughing at hasan as i do all the time anyway but mainly i was laughing because i was like oh this isn't gonna stick you know and then and because the truth is like if you ask even now we're in brooklyn which is probably a hasan stronghold i guess like if he was gonna get elected this would be like a solid hassan for sure no neighborhood if we go on the street right now i doubt that two people will even know what we're talking about nobody knows that's what i mean nobody knows but everybody knows yeah but it's such a weird thing so that was my response to him was that like i'm in australia right now dude i can I promise you no one here gives a fuck about what

anything you're upset about whatever it is you know yeah my take on it was like when you stop being funny is when people will notice right you know what I mean

like all of a sudden if he had a terrible special right right people would be like what's up with that right you know that is interesting

isn't it that I was talking to someone else about that like um wait for musicians or something where it's like what's that one special that where it you know you feel like they kind of like went down a little bit right they lost it yeah yeah it's kind of yeah it's kind of scary how quickly that can happen, I guess. Yeah. So you and Hasan burn each other a lot. Has he ever, like, for example, you told him that he didn't get invited

to Dave Chappelle's summer camp because... Because Dave doesn't like comedians who do PowerPoint. Oh, you want to do this right now? We can do it. Yeah, we'll do it. Yeah, we can talk about Hasan right now. Yeah. Okay, so Hasan, he calls me during the pandemic and we're talking

and i go like oh hey dave chappelle invited me to ohio to do the cornfields which is kind of like the comedian all-star game and her son's like oh that's cool this is what her son says you okay he brought this up this fair game that her son goes he goes like okay hey can i go and i'm like uh hey i don't know man it's not really my cornfield it's not my cornfield it's not really my cornfield and it's kind of like you have to be invited you can't just say you want to show up and then her son's like oh okay well do you think if i message dave he'll let me come and i'm like yeah maybe i'm you know you're her son. Yeah, I'm sure he would. Yeah, but I can't. There's no plus.

There was no plus. Ronnie, 15 minutes, plus one. I can't bring a plus one to perform with me. So I was just like, damn. Either he's so deluded as he is that he thinks he can just walk into the cornfields of Chappelle's and just go on stage, like drop in on Chappelle's cornfields. Or he thinks that I have the clout to like, you know, invite people into that thing.

But I was like, I didn't even know. You know, when Chappelle invites you to the cornfields, it's like, you're like, oh, okay. You don't even have, there's no itinerary. There's no nothing. You just kind of go. You just show up. You show up and everything works out because that's his world. Everything just works, you know.

But you just have to trust the artists and the energy of the place. And it was great. It was great. When I got there, it was like going to the cornfields in Ohio. But everyone there was super friendly. And there was an audience who was really keen for comedy. Yeah. It was like an all-star game, you know?

That's really cool. Yeah. What's the meanest burn he's ever had of you? What's the one where he says it to you and you're like, eh, it's a little much. Oh, he really doesn't have much on me, to be honest. Because like, what does he... I'm trying to think.

Like, he thinks he has these sick burns on me, but I'm like what he got he comes at me for like having my first name is ronnie yeah and so he's like what why are you having this fake white person first name this fake it's not even your real name and i'm like it's in my birth certificate man like right i didn't is it your first or your middle name it's my first name it's literally my first yeah so I don't even understand this burn that he did. And it took me so long to understand his point. His point is that as an ethnically Chinese person from Malaysia,

why did my parents give me an English first name in addition to my Chinese name? Yeah. So he's saying that your real name is your Chinese name. And I'm like, yeah, but that whole thing is my name. So you got to ask him what this burn is. Because he's accusing me of, I guess, westernizing my name. But it's in my birth certificate.

It's your name. Yeah, it's my name. That was one of the things I love about your special. You go into the British sort ofish sort of uh imperialism oh thanks history of the malaysian stuff oh yeah yeah thanks which i feel so ignorant i didn't know that no that's cool and you make fun of people like me who don't know yeah but i also think like i don't know you know i don't know um minor league baseball. I don't know Mexican drug cartels. I think minor league baseball and drug, Mexican drug cartels are not things I know either.

Yeah, but it's- I also don't know that. Okay, well, then you should be more ashamed of that, not knowing that, because that's in your wheelhouse. That's in your backyard. But I didn't know that. I didn't know that so you grew up on sort of like you're saying like british influence like british parliament and british comedy yeah yeah british day yeah british comedy british tv and um british education system and

that's why we i you know i have to i pronounce my t's because that's all it's all very British to say your T's and not. You keep threatening the audience that you're going to leave. You're like, cancel me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, cancel me. What? Where I go home, I'm a national treasure? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

In the special, yeah. That bit. I love that. Yeah. I texted you for your birthday and you said, hey, thanks for all the support and encouragement, but it's not my birthday. I Googled your birthday.

It said it was your birthday. You said fake birthday. I didn't correct it because I don't want to get hacked. And then I said, I already hacked you. Your emails are fascinating. Your bank account is lower than I thought.

And then you said, while you're in there, can you help me post about my tour? And then I posted about your tour. So it worked. It worked. The hacking worked. Yeah. So what's your birthday? I don't want to tell you my birthday.

For real? Yeah, that's how you get hacked. You have very low security protocols, by the way. So I don't know what kind of fantasy world you live in. I live in New York City, okay? This is a dangerous place. You can't just be telling people your birthday and your freaking where you live.

Everyone knows your birthday. Nobody knows my birthday. That birthday is real. No, that's not a real birthday. There's no way that's not a real birthday. That's not a real birthday. I'll show you. I'll prove it to you, but you can't say what it is.

I'll prove it to you. I'll show you my... Show it to me. I won't put it on camera but you can't say what it is. I'll prove it to you. I'll show you my... Show it to me. I won't put it on camera. I won't say it. Yeah, but why do people care about birthdays anyway? So I can hack you. It's my Gmail.

You know what's funny is I was looking at a photo that your wife posted of you and her when you were younger. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like I think when you just got married. Yeah. From years ago. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, I think when you just got married. Yeah. From years ago. Yeah. And you're so sweet.

Wait, what photo was this? On Times Square? Yeah. Oh, no, that wasn't, we didn't get married. We just started dating. Oh, we just started dating. Yeah.

And that was. That's a really cute photo. And then I'm like, where's this Ronnie? Because your stage persona is so tough. Oh, right, right. And you're so fearless and brazen. Oh, right, right. And you're so fearless and brazen. Oh, right, right.

And then like your soft personal self is very different. Oh, yeah. Do you think your persona on stage? Yeah. I think we're multitudes, right? We all contain multitudes. Yeah, we're multitudes, sure. But that was, that photo was cool because for me,

that first date was also my secret, like, I'm going to go check out the New York comedy scene because that was my first time in New York. Oh, it was? Yeah, yeah.

My first time, we were, me and my wife met in Australia. Right. We were going, we were in law school in Australia when we came to New York on holiday

and I went to Times Square and someone in Times Square came up to me I was like hey do you want to go see comedy and I was like yeah I do actually and they're like okay so Dangerfields tonight you know we're filming a comedy central special right here do you know this guy is a Charlie Murphy I'm like yeah yeah I know Charlie Murphy do you know this guy I'm like no I don't know you know this dude no no this guy no no anyway all these people are gonna be taping a comedy central special tonight at Dangerfields and I'm like oh cool don't know you know this dude no no this guy no no anyway all these people are going to be taping a comedy central special tonight at danger fields and i'm like oh cool so i bought two tickets and i went to danger fields none of those people were on no one was

taping anything unbelievable but jokes on them because i want to go anyway so they didn't scare me i actually got the better of that what a sweet story yeah it was great it's funny that you you met your wife at law school yeah because i feel like you do have kind of a legalistic approach to jokes. Yeah. Like in a certain sense. I always think of jokes as like a legal… It's like an argument. It's an argument.

Yeah. It's an argument for a thing that's absurd. Yeah. Yes, yes. So not argument in the sense of fighting with someone. Yeah. Although it can be. Or it's an absurd argument about something that's serious.

Yes. It's like, but most comedy, I think, falls into like one of those two categories. Yeah. And you build it the same way because, the same way you would build an argument in court in terms of like, you set your hypothesis, thesis statement.

Yeah. And then you go, here are the supporting evidence. Yeah. And then your big conclusion, hopefully. One of our producers, Mabel, saw you at the Cobra Club, I want to say. It's like an alt room where it's like a small room. And you called out that you're an arena act in some markets. What are you doing here?

Can you tell the larger story that that was a part of? Do you remember? Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it was about having kids. If I have kids and if they started doing comedy, how I would feel about it. Yeah. And the joke was about how Chinese I am

that even if my kid wanted to do comedy, I wouldn't even be able to come to grips with it. I'd be like, what are you doing? You can't do comedy. The bit was turning around about how even if you were to become a comic, there's no way you'd be better than me. I love that.

So that was the reveal. There's no way you'd be better than me. When you did the race, there's a hilarious bit in your special where you basically tempt the audience to start a race war by saying, what's the worst race? Everyone say it at the same time. And you're literally like, say a color. And then I would describe it as no one really says it in the special.

Or maybe it's muddled. Right, right. Was it ever clear? Yes. Yes. It got pretty clear on the road. On tour, people would shout out. And would it be their own race or a different race it would usually it's usually too dark to tell but the

the i i would think the only socially acceptable answer would be your own race so a lot of the times you would hear colors and you'd be like i'm pretty sure that was your own race right but sometimes it wouldn't be right sometimes some people would be like um what's the worst race and some people would be like chinese malaysians right and i'm like right i was like oh well that guy's clearly not chinese malaysian because no one chinese malaysian would even say chinese malaysian right so so they were just trying to come at me with it right um so that was like a heckle of sorts it's a heckle right yeah but to be fair you know i'm inviting the answers and then uh one time at the cellar, someone yelled, Jews!

And I was like, that guy better be Jewish because... He shouted Jews? Yeah, he shouted Jews in the cellar. And I got really upset on stage and I just said like, that guy's a fucking ass, whoever that was,

that's a fucking asshole. I said, because the joke ends with like, if you said anything, you're the worst 10 10 of your race right and then when that happened i said especially that fucking guy that guy is the worst you know and and um and then after i left stage i realized like oh maybe that guy was jewish which would have right the whole thing okay but i wasn't sure anyway it it's uh it's playing with dynamite

how did you come up with that as a bitch? How did you arrive at that? Just being an awful person. I think this was at the cellar. Just to give context, Ronnie, in his comedy special, which I love, says, everybody, what's the worst race? And everybody shouted it out at the same time. And you really do tempt the audience to do this. Yeah, yeah.

I get them to shout out the worst race. I think it was actually at the comedy all-star game in the Ohio cornfields. Really? Where I figured out that you could do that. Because I've been to a lot of countries. And there's terrible people everywhere. So let's just compare the worst of everyone.

Right. So we get to determine who the worst race is. One thing I noticed about your specials, you complain about D students. Basically like people, essentially like you have a whole run

about how people are just like, kind of like do your own research people. Yes. They do your own research crowd and basically a lot of them are D students. Yes, the death of expertise. The death of expertise, which drives me crazy too. Yes. They do your own research crowd. And basically a lot of them are D students. Yes. The death of expertise. The death of expertise, which drives me crazy too.

Yes. But you're hilarious about it. I will say that you're kind of an A student. Right. Right? You went to law school. I'm 1,000% super elitist. But I'm also not.

Very elitist. Yes. Very elitist. Punching down at D students. I love punching down at these idiots. But I'm show. A lot of punching down at these idiots. But I'm also not the greatest student. I wasn't the greatest student in school. Oh, is that right?

Yeah, I wasn't the top of my class at all. I got into law school by the skin of my teeth, and I was a terrible law student. Oh, really? Yeah. Was your wife good? My wife was freaking amazing and I was a terrible law student. Oh really? Yeah. And it happened- Was your wife good? My wife was freaking amazing. She was the best law student.

Did you ever cheat on her? Did you- I'm sorry. No, I did not cheat on her. Did you ever- Did you ever cheat off of her? What? Off of her paper? Oh.

The second question was more applicable. Yeah. Did you ever cheat on her? Was my first question, which is not my question. The second one was, did you cheat off of her tests and papers? No, I didn't. Because you can't really, the way you quote unquote cheat in law school is you borrow someone's notes. Okay.

So my wife had great notes. Yes. She would take notes, class notes, her notes were great. And so in that sense, she would give me her notes and then I'd try to use her notes to do the exam. But, you know, you can't.

So you tried to cheat off of her, but it didn't work. It didn't work because I'm just not smart enough to do it. Oh, you can't. My next question, have you cheated on her? No, I have not cheated on my wife

it was just out of secrets man I didn't know it was Maury Povich here's the child from your affair oh my god Jesus your new tour is called Love to Hate a Tour

what's something you love to hate what's something you hate to love comedy right love to hate love to hate it interesting love to hate it I'm to hate i'm surprised well in the sense of like every day it's just like how do i get this fucking joke to work oh i get

oh okay you know like how do i i get you i need more material i don't have any more too i watch other comics i'm like everyone's killing it i'm like i don't i'm terrible this i got nothing i got nothing here and then it's and then i can't tell you how cathartic it is for me to hear you say that. Because I feel like that all the time. You came with the whole notice board of jokes behind you. That you're trying to- You got so many, you can't even fit it on the board. That's how many you got.

It's true. But they're not all good. And they're not a lot- Most of them aren't good, really. But you're a comic who, when I'm back-to-back with you at the Comedy Cellar, I'm just in awe of how much new material you have. And so to hear you say that it drives you crazy, that actually makes me feel better.

It's the best thing that's happened in my day so far. Well, I mean, I feel the same way about you. I feel the same way about you. Because you're always coming in. You got the cards of the new stuff. So you're always trying new stuff. And then here I am with my same old shit. And I can't even follow Babiglia reading off his fucking cards.

So I have to go and go and do my old stuff. It's just, it's awful. It's an awful job. This is called the slow round. What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you? Wow. This is for other people to answer, right? I don't know. Favorite thing about me?

I don't know. You always make me laugh, and you always are super insightful. Oh, thanks so much. I'm answering it for you. I'm not supposed to thank you yeah i can't talk about my uh i can't talk about my uh positives it's very difficult for me uh negatives uh i don't know i don't know what what do people hate about me that i don't like celebrating anything oh i don't like celebrating christ, birthdays, weddings, funerals.

I'm like... Interesting. Yeah. I just don't need to celebrate. Do you not show up? I often don't show up. I often don't show up. Yeah.

And then... My wife and I don't love celebrations either. Yeah. I think the reason... If I'm playing the other side of this argument, because I'm also like, I don't like holidays. If I'm playing the other side of this argument, because I'm also like, I don't like holidays. If I'm playing the other side of this argument, it's almost like in sports, it's like a makeup call.

It's like a referee who botches a bunch of calls. And then they're like off sides. And you're like, it wasn't off sides. Yeah, I'm trying to keep it even around here. That's what holidays are in a way. You know what I mean? Holidays are like, we haven't been spending enough time together. Yes.

Merry Christmas. Yes. Let's all get together and eat a steak. That's great. You know what I mean? That's a great bit. That's a great bit. Could be a bit.

I think you got it. You got to write that down. Yeah, that could be a bit. I think that's a bit, man. But it is – for me, it's from growing up where my dad put a ton of emphasis on Christmas, Easter, birthdays, and like not that much emphasis on the other days. Right, right. And so that's how you like – that's your rebellion or – I think so. Yeah.

And I think my wife's the same. Right, where it's like, I'm gonna, I want every day to be nice, not just the nice days. Yeah. Right, yeah. Can you think of a time that you were so scared you ran away? So scared, yeah.

Like one time I got mugged at knife point and I ran and then I tripped and fell and then got mugged. All right, let's unpack this yeah so where are you uh i'm in australia i'm walking from uh university to my house yeah uh and along the way there's a park and i walk through the park and it's usually pretty safe uh no one around and then these kids run up to me one of them holds a kitchen knife and he's like, you see this kitchen knife?

Give me all your stuff. And I go, well. Did he say this is a kitchen knife? Yeah, yeah. You see, I have a kitchen knife. Wow. Just to make it clear. Wow.

Yeah. And then I, you know, I actually. He said, give me your money? Yeah. He said, give me your money. And I actually said, I actually did not have my wallet on me because I just went from, it was just like a short distance.

Yeah. And all I had on me was my phone and my keys. And I was very worried that they'd follow me home and go into my house. Right. I think my sister was at home. They'd find out your birthday. They'd find out my birthday.

And then hack my email. And so I just gave them my phone. I said, all I have is this phone. You can take it. And they took the phone and then they my email. And so I just gave them my phone. I said, all I have is this phone. You can take it. And they took the phone and then they wrote off. Oh, jeez. But when they came at me the first time,

I actually spider sensed it and then I just ran. Oh, interesting. But then I tripped and fell because I was wearing like flip-flops. What's a time that you remember feeling pure joy? Pure joy? Yeah. like flip-flops what's a time that you remember feeling pure joy good joy yeah uh i think getting

getting past the cello was pretty fun oh yeah is it first time you auditioned yes did you already have the daily show yes wow yeah and who recommended you hasan no no not her son i if anything i think i recommended her son to the seller. I'm trying to think who recommended. It may have been Bill Burr. Oh, wow. Bill Burr got me an audition. Where did you know Bill from? I was doing comedy in Australia.

That's where I started doing stand-up comedy. One day, I get this Facebook message from Bill Burr's Facebook account, but his profile picture is a car because he's Bill Burr. So you don't know who it is. And the message comes into my fan page and it goes like, hey, Ronnie, it's Bill Burr here. I just saw you in five minutes. It was great. Would love to work with you someday see you around and and i was like there's no way this is billboard this is like 2012 or 20 yeah it's around 2012 and uh i'm like there's no way this is actually billboard he's not messaging me on facebook pages and i just replied back like oh thanks so much huge fan of Huge fan of yours, but I live in Australia.

So I don't think I'll ever see you, but hopefully one day I can meet you. It'd be great. And then he replies back, hey, I'm doing a tour of Australia next year. So hopefully you can be on those shows. And I'm like, oh, great. And then we don't talk for like a year.

And I'm like, I don't know if this is real or not. And then, you know, it comes down to Bill Burr's on tour in australia and i get this message from him like hey can you come up to this venue and i'm like this is i'm getting catfish right now this is what i'm totally gonna get wow and i'm like you know what but i can't risk not going so i'd rather get catfish than not yeah and then i just show up and until he comes in the room i'm still don't i still think it's fake and then really yeah he's like oh yeah i love this guy i saw you on the plane he's i don't even watch stand-up but i i just happened to be on a plane and it was great i

loved it i was like i couldn't believe it you know it was just it was just five minutes at jfl which is kind of amazing yeah it's crazy and so he recommend you to the Daily Show? No, no. That JFL special that he saw was the one I did with Trevor Noah. That's where I met Trevor. Wow. So that one special got me connected to so many people in America. And this is Montreal Just for Laughs. It's JFL. It's cool.

And Bill was super welcoming. And then now he EPs my specials. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So he was great. What a great story. Yeah.

It was great. And no one can believe it. And like, it just goes to show, you know, like what, I don't know, like you just need someone to believe in you sometimes. So I think that's one of the takeaways. The other one is like, you put it out into the universe. Right. And someone was watching.

Yeah. Who had a lot of clout. Yeah. And like I feel like that often with comedians and artists I admire, a lot of it's that. It's taking a lot of swings. Right. It's just trying.

Yeah. Taking swings and being ready. Yeah. Being ready. Because you did all the work before. So when you did it, you're not doing the material for the first time at just a lab. Yeah.

You took it seriously. You worked on it. And you put something good out there. And then hopefully people liked it. I can't remember what the question was. Oh, the pure joy. Oh, yeah. So I remember being at the cellar

and getting passed and being like, oh, yeah, this is great. This is my whole dream. My whole dream was to do comedy in New York City. Yeah. It was the best. That's so interesting though because I

the pure joy thing because I have the same thing when I'm at the comedy cellar I feel very happy yeah I like being around comics because I find that comics don't

they're not polite they're not polite and I don't like politeness right or too much politeness too much yeah yeah

exactly yeah I don't like where you're in a conversation with people and you feel like everyone's kind of holding on to their

actual opinion right when you're with comics you wish they would hold on yeah yeah you're like please hold on to these opinions these are definitely real

yeah yeah also because comics are on the road a lot. So they know what it's like to be annoying. What do you mean by that? So, you know, when you're on the road, when you're on tour, I don't know about you, but like being on the road is a mental battle unto itself, right? To stay sane and to have your creature comforts and not be annoying with the people you're on tour with. So I think because of that,

I think, you know, I just recently came up with this idea that I think that's what also makes hanging out with comics good is fun is because they know what it's like to be annoying or rather they know how to not be annoying because we've been on the road. Yeah.

And we're trained to know how to give people space or how to right or how to talk to people or how to like uh socialize but then not be annoying no right you know because we're on the road like if you're on the road with someone they're annoying dude it is a drag i know you're trying to be nice but don't don't interrupt it we have our you know we have our the way we need to be on the road just to be sane right yeah i toured with my sister gina recently where she came out and we went to detroit and she was like so today i'm gonna go to this museum and this blah blah and i was just like no no i can't right i can't i'm gonna be in the hotel all day staring at jokes, ordering delivery, and listening to the set from the night before. And I love Gina, and I would love to go to Detroit with her.

But when you're on, yeah, there is something about when you're on tour. You actually can't do anything. You actually can't do anything. It's like being on a flight. You can't actually accomplish anything on a flight. Well, because here's what, it's funny because this podcast has made me realize this more than anything.

We're all, as comedians and probably performers of any kind, we're all a little bit anxious all the time about the next show. Yes. And we might play it cool. Yes. We might, it might seem like we're relaxed. We're not relaxed. Right. We're thinking like, oh my God, at seven o'clock tonight, a thousand people are going to show up and they're going to- Or seven

o'clock in a week. Yeah. Yeah. Later in the week. Yeah. They're going to show up and they're going to want me to kill for an hour. And if I don't, then I'm going to have hell to pay. Yeah. And it's very hard to be a regular person in the world when you carry that much anxiety. Right? Yeah, yeah. Which is why you're saying it's annoying when people are on the road and they're like, do you want this?

Do you want this? You want to go to the museum? You want to do this? Because you're like, no, no, I don't want to do anything except what's going to alleviate the anxiety of I have to do this show. Yes, yes. Okay. What's the best piece of advice anyone's given you that you used? Wow, that's tough.

I get tons of great advice. Wow, that's tough. I get tons of great advice. I think for me personally, I think there was a really good one where someone told me, the sound guy at the comedy store in Sydney, who was a musician, is a musician. He told me like being professional is being able to be critical about yourself without getting emotional. And I think about that a lot times because sometimes you get too insecure or you get too angry over something and you're like

oh if you're professional you you can point out what's wrong without getting too emotional about it yeah i think that's i think that's such a great piece of advice it's one of the ways that my director seth barris who directs all direct all my shows, the way he puts it is, he doesn't say like, that bit's good, that bit's bad, that story's good, that story's bad. He just goes like, what I get from that is this. What I get from it is that you checked into the hotel and you had a dream and you jumped out of bed

and you realized you were sleepwalking like and when he echoes it back to me I'm like oh that's actually not what I meant to convey

right and that's like a kind of emotionless way yeah to kind of talk through ideas right right but also

also sounds like you're very sensitive and people need to walk on eggshells around that's what it is yeah that's what it is is That's what it is. Is there a song that makes you cry?

A song that makes me cry? I don't think so. No? I don't think so. Really? Yeah. Do you listen to a lot of music? Yeah.

Nothing that makes you cry? I don't think nothing makes me cry. Wow. I can't think of anything off the top of my head. You get emotional when you listen to music? I don't think I can make you cry. I can't think of anything off the top of my head. You get emotional when you listen to music? I don't know. I don't think so.

Happy is an emotion, right? I get happy when I listen to music. I'm going to deliver this to Hasan as a burn for you. Yeah, I don't know. He has a lot that make him cry. Oh, Hasan? Oh, yeah. Yeah, but that dude is… I mean, talk about sensitive insecure.

I mean… That guy will probably cry if you don't say his name right. Which he spelled incorrectly. I thought I was saying it right and you were saying it wrong. I'm saying Hasan and you're saying… I'm saying Hasan? We're both wrong. We're both wrong. We're both wrong.

Because this freaking guy won't spell his name right and he blames the entire world for not being able to pronounce it. Yeah. His name is in Urdu. So it doesn't even matter what… It doesn't even matter

what you spell in English. You know what I mean? Like, as in… He should have just spelled it phonetically. But instead, he's freaking spelled it the way Americans pronounce it and gets upset

when Americans pronounce it in American. On Ellen. On Ellen. Starts crying on Ellen. Oh, God. Okay, this is material. Do you have new bits you're working on? Do you want to throw anything out? I got a bit I wanted to run by you.

Go ahead. It's kind of racial, so don't judge me. It was going to be very judgmental if uh uh so it's this this is not the bit it starts off with a question just to i'm still trying to figure out this bit sure this isn't even the bit i haven't even been able to say it on stage but like when people when you go to a comedy show yeah of a comic that you like do you go you go in going like um uh i don't want to load the answer here but i guess i have to as you don't know where i'm going with it um do you go to a comic that you like a concert and you go like i hope he's funny

or do you go going like this is gonna be great be great, man. I love this guy. Hope it's going to be funny. Oh, really? Wow. Did you want the other answer? No, I didn't want it. I just wanted your honest opinion on it. You really, you're going to do that. Okay.

I get nervous for the comedian. Right. I think you are rooting for the comic. And I think that you are a little worried that the comic might not come through. Wow. The way that, you way that maybe you saw on their Netflix special or whatever it was. Even though you have a history,

you've had a history with them. It's not your first time seeing them. It's not an open mic. You're going to like a theater. Can you put a percentage on that? I would say... No wrong answers. Well, 70% concern

I think you're just a you're just a dad I think I'm 70% concerned but I'm also like I'll put it in the universe of you if I was going to see you I would

well no you're a comedian I would go see I would pay money to buy tickets to go see and I would well no that you're a comedian I would go see I would pay money to buy tickets to go see and I would go I would go sort of I hope he has it

tonight right kind of thing right kind of when you're watching a baseball game I hope he has a good show I hope he's

throwing good pitches tonight and it's like yeah that's my that's how I come into it because I know what you can do at your best and so I'll be like oh I hope it's like yeah that's that's my that's where i how i come into it because i know what you can do at your best and so i'll be like oh i hope it's that oh okay thank you as again so the bit

i'm trying to write is this idea that i find like chinese people they don't have a lot of experience with like live comedy they don't go out so a lot of my people come to my shows are going to comedy for the first time okay a lot of experience with like live comedy. They don't go out. So a lot of my people come to my shows, I go into comedy for the first time. Okay. A lot of the time. They're like first time, like live comedy. First time going to standup shows.

So I- In America. Yeah, in America. Yeah, Chinese Americans. Even more so back in Asia, back in Singapore and Malaysia. But like in America, I still get, you know, my last tour was more

obviously i think hopefully this will be less so but like people who come out for the first time never even been to a live comedy before yeah their idea of comedy is maybe they've seen clips on on tiktok you know and so they're coming out and my bit that i was writing was that like chinese people come out and they're so not fun that they come out and they you can hear the energy of like man I hope this guy's good you know and they come to my shows going like I hope this guy's good you know whereas like you go to

like a Chappelle show everyone's like yeah people surrender to the experience of the artist but my joke was I was trying to take this self-deprecating racial angle of like Chinese people are like just come out and they'll just like hope this doesn't suck yeah yeah you know oh man i like no confidence in yeah even though they bought tickets to come and see me and they've seen me they've seen a clip or you know so i was trying

to riff on that bit like you know it it and i mean i do have a larger bit about which are the the most the most fun asians and the least fun asians what are the most fun asians koreans and most fun in the bit yeah do you think in real life in the real i think there's something to it i think my whole thing was about uh talking about from the angle of life performing. Yeah. So the bit is that like every race of people knows how to have a good time when they go out. Yeah.

When you go out, you have to commit to the night out. You commit and then you surrender to the experience. Right? You go like,

whatever happens, happens because I'm out now. I'm out. And then you'll go there, you're like rooting for the night out. And then whatever happens, you go home and you're like I'm out. And then you'll go there, you're like rooting for the night out. Right. And then whatever happens, you go home and you're like,

that was an adventure. Right. You know, that like the journey was the night out. Right. But with Chinese people, when they come out,

it's like, everyone here now works for me. I paid this much money. And so this is how much value I need to get from this night. Otherwise, this whole thing was a fucking waste wow of of life and energy and this whole thing was terrible you know like they have this thing so so the whole bit was about that so it's it's interesting that like you're

saying that you you go out and you feel the same way with a live performing you're not surrendering you're more like oh shit i hope this hope this but i'm rooting for it right you're rooting for it and i'm actually more inclined to like versus not like yeah but i think like one angle for that is like you know you could open with the thing that you're saying which is like chinese audiences are like this and and um one way to pivot is just to be like, you know, I moved here, grew up in Malaysia, moved to Australia,

moved to New Hampshire against the odds. I became one of the more famous comedians in the world. And then I have to have Chinese audience members. You know what I mean? have to have Chinese audience members. You know what I mean?

Like, I got the worst audience members. How do I get stuck with the worst audience members? You know how hard it was to get where I am? Right, right, right. I feel like your indignance that's so funny when you do it would really play. Yeah. Well, that, yeah. I think that's the dynamic that's happening

is that, like, I'm kind of crapping on the crowd that's happening is that like i'm kind of crapping on the crowd that came out yes but in a way where they're like yeah we were worried right you know where they you can tell it in the when you when you call them out they're like yeah we yeah we were worried right we don't know how to we i thought that's what you're supposed to do right you're supposed to come out and worry about maybe you could scold them and just be like i need you to root for me yeah yeah i do that i need oh you do that okay no i not in so much words but yeah at the start i go um yeah i i kind of thank uh everyone for coming except for the asians because i'm like you guys should

have come you guys you're always supposed to come through this. This is your responsibility. There might be a bit also in scolding the Chinese audience members of being like, you realize I could be the number one comedian in the world if you guys did more? You know how many Chinese people are in the world? If there was solidarity, I would be huge. If you guys lowered your expectations and you freaking got behind the person who's trying his best here, I could be huge if you guys lowered your expectations and you freaking got behind

the person who's trying his best yeah I could be number one yeah it's on you I have I'm as good as anybody

right I'm funnier than the other comments you what's holding the only thing holding me back is you

it's you you guys yeah yeah and you could be like, and I apologize for calling out the people who showed up to the show tonight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because in fairness, you did do your part. Yeah, you did show up. But you got to show up with the right attitude. Yeah, you got to show up with the right attitude. You can't just buy a ticket and think that's your duty. You got to buy a ticket, you got to come, and you got to be happy, and you got to root for me, and then you got to be positive.

The journey doesn't end on the Ticketmaster website. The journey is just beginning. I need you full commitment through the show. Through the show. And after. And there sure as hell better be a standing ovation. the last thing we do is working it out for a cause is there a non-profit

that you like to contribute to and we'll contribute to them and link to them in the show notes yeah there's a AAPI vote so they yeah they non-partisan

but who are we kidding trying to get people to come out to, try to get AAPI people in America to vote. I've never had anyone say, but who are we kidding? Non-partisan, but who are we kidding? But like, all their marketing is very non-partisan. So in that sense, it's easy to share.

Right. So that's apiavote.org. So we'll contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes. Thank you so much. Ronnie, you're the best. Thanks for coming on. No problem. Thanks for making me burn my material for free and go through this excruciating self-examination

of my feelings. That's how you see this? Yeah. That's how you see what just transpired? I see it as a communion of two souls. I guess we'll agree to disagree. All right, well, thanks. It makes sense that you would end on that after the opening line of your special is,

there are too many podcasts. All right, Ronnie Chang. Thanks so much. Working it out, because it's not done. We're working it out, because it's not done Working it out, because there's no hope So that's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. Ronnie is touring all over the place. It is called the Love to Hate It Tour. This week he's in D.C., Philly, New York, Florida.

I will also be in Florida. Maybe Ronnie and I will meet up and go swimming in Florida. He's all over the U.S. You can follow him on Instagram, Ronnie Chang. That's R-O-N-N-Y C-H-I-E-N-G. And you can watch

the full video of this interview on my YouTube channel, which is at Mike Birbiglia. Check it out and subscribe. Check out Birbigs.com and sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers are myself, along with Peter Salamone,

Joseph Berbiglia, and Mabel Lewis. Associate producer, Gary Simons. Sound mix by Ben Cruz. Supervising engineer, Kate Balinski. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleacher for their music. They have a new album coming soon, which I've heard a secret version of and it's fantastic. Some of the tracks

are out now. Special thanks to my wife, the poet J-Hope Stein. Special thanks, as always, to my daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Without that, this would not be possible. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Maybe

you say to your enemy one day, take the person by surprise. You go, hey, happy birthday. And they're like, it's not my birthday. And you go, check again. And they'll go, what? And you go, hey, do you listen to podcasts? And they'll be like, what?

And you go, there's this great podcast called Working It Out where comedians work out jokes with one another. They'll be confused about all of the things, the birthday, the podcast, but you'll be closer in a certain way because you just had this awkward interaction with each other and you'll discuss that the next time you see each other. Thanks for listening, everybody. We'll see you next time.