Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 126. Seth Meyers: SNL, Late Night, and a Ton of New Jokes

Episode Date: March 25, 2024

Mike sits down with the legendary comedian and writer Seth Meyers for a conversation that reveals who is secretly the funniest of the funniest at SNL behind-the-scenes and who was the most popular Strike Force Five host. Then, Mike and Seth work out new material about serial killers, the D.A.R.E. program, and dropping acid in Amsterdam. Plus: who will take over for Lorne Michaels after he leaves SNL?Please consider donating to Sanctuary For Families

So SNL's 50th anniversary is next year. So are you going to take over for Lauren or is it Tina and then you? I really don't. I think this is a false narrative that Lauren is going anywhere. Oh. I think that, look,

nine years awarded to the 40th, I think it made sense for Lauren who's got a flair for the dramatic to say I think I'll be done at 50. Yeah. But now it's not like Lauren's got something else he wants to do more than this. So you think it's Kenan? I think it's Kenan.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! That is the voice of the great Seth Meyers. This episode is years in the making. Seth and I are good friends. We've been trying to get him on this podcast for a long time. He's one of the great comedy writers. Wrote for SNL for years and years as a head writer at SNL.

Has written for his own Late Night with Seth Meyers for going on, wait for it, 10 years now. It's a 10-year anniversary of Late Night with Seth Meyers, which is a show I love and I've been on many times. Seth is also a producer and an interview subject in this new Peacock documentary TV series that comes out tomorrow, March 26th, called Good One, a show about jokes based on the Vulture podcast by Jesse David Fox. I love

how this documentary came out. They followed me around in last year in Providence and in Washington, D.C., a bunch of places. They filmed me working on new jokes. And it was honestly like the most access that I've ever sort of given any documentary crew, documentaries make me feel very uncomfortable. And so I was very nervous about it. And I thought it came out great. I've seen it. I think it's really fascinating. It's in a lot of ways, it's a lot like this podcast as a film documentary.

It is available tomorrow on Peacock. A good one. A show about jokes. Another big announcement. This is a big day for my Please Stop the Ride tour. I've been having such a blast in Florida and Colorado and Boston, all these places. I'm also going in the spring to Chicago. We added a third show. In Washington, D.C., we added a fourth show. In Toronto, we added a fourth show. This fall, I'm adding 20 cities. Those cities are Red Bank, New Jersey in September, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Oakland, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Minneapolis, Madison, Milwaukee, Champaign, Illinois, Indianapolis, Ann Arbor, Detroit, Dayton, Ohio, Pittsburgh, Louisville, Nashville, Knoxville, Asheville, and Charleston. Presale begins today at 10 a.m. your local time with the code PANCAKE. Check out all of those on Burbigs.com and join the mailing list for updates about added shows.

But this is a great chat today with Seth Meyers. We talk about SNL. He was on SNL for 13 years, and so I ask all of my pressing questions about SNL. He's super open and honest and frank about all of it. We talk about how he interviewed President Biden recently for Late Night with Seth Meyers. They just had their 10th anniversary. Seth has so many great stories, so funny, and so much wisdom about comedy and life. Enjoy my conversation with the great Seth Myers. I remember reading, I think in the SNL book, one or one of them, like, like Jim Brewer, basically, maybe in the 90s, just being like, Farrell came in and McKay and like, they didn't like me. And like, then I wasn't part of the inside group or whatever.

And I was totally related to that even though I've never been a part of that. I was like, yeah, that's what happens in groups. I had that in my college improv group. It happens in groups all the time. With that said, I remember when Will first hosted and so I overlapped with him for a year when he came back and hosted

and that meeting between dress and air where they're picking the sketches. Yeah. Will had a moment of, oh, because it was just what was funniest, what played. And I think everybody assumes who's not in the room that there's a little bit more, I like this person, but it's really,

it's a little bit more of a meritocracy in a good way. I'm guessing you always roughly felt like you were in the group within the group at the show because you were head writer you were like eventually but not at first seven not at all no way you're seven well i wasn't i was a struggling cast member for five years i felt more on the outside than oh my gosh maybe anybody i mean it. So, I mean, I'm not like being hard on myself. I was barely staying alive as a cast member on that show until I think year five or six was when Tina left. Or she was on the process of leaving. Finally, right?

Finally. To do 30 Rock. And they asked if I would, Lorne asked if I would step in, and I wasn't even a credited writer on the show, and he sort of said, we'd love for you to take over as one of the writing supervisors on the show. And then the next year I was a head writer.

I mean, moment of silence. Moment of silence. That's crazy. I do, I then realized about a year later, oh, he was also doing this because he didn't want me on camera at all. I think his plan was, look at you. Look at you. Valuable writer. Well, interestingly,

that's sort of Tim Robinson's path, too. I mean, he didn't end up being head writer, but Tim Robinson was a cast member on the show. Yeah. And actually was great as a cast member. He really was. And then at a certain point, Lauren was like, I'd actually prefer if you were a writer.

Basically after the first season. Yeah. And then he's a writer. He writes really good sketches. He does. And I think to Tim's eternal credit, like found peace with that shift. Because I think that's the hardest part to deal with

is that, oh, I was a cast member, now they want me to just be a writer. And Tim, I've talked to him about it, he said he found joy in being a writer on the show, which is really great. Everybody always says about him who worked with him when he was a writer that he wasn't stressed at all.

Right, the hard part. Right. He had kind of been demoted in a certain sense from being a cast member to a writer and so he was just like yeah what are you gonna do to me

fire me you know and so he kind of swung away it was also great he swung away and he also I would love

seeing Tim in my post SNL years for the first two or three years that I had late night maybe not even that long because I realized

nobody actually wanted to see me I would go over what do you mean? well I finished taping on Thursday would be my last show so we did four shows a week and I finished on Thursday

and I'd walk over to SNL the way I've always described it is I felt like I was a plastic surgeon who was walking into the ER being like hey you guys

anybody here golfing this weekend? And they're like, get out of here. Like I, my vibe. To give the setup, people, you're on literally the same floor. Literally the same floor. You walk out the door of your makeup room and you're on the floor of SNL. It's very strange.

It's as if I went to college next door to my high school. And I just realized, and so yeah, my week, the cresting though is different. Like Thursday, right as I'm like, they're like, ah! And so it was not, it's hard to find a good time

to match those vibes up. Except what I loved about seeing Timmy was he had that joy about working there. And he also, this is another thing that Mike O'Brien, I remember pointed out once you would go. The writer, Mike O'Brien. Writer and comedian, Mike O'Brien. There were weeks where the SNL host was really difficult and you could tell they were really difficult. We don't have to talk about Justin Bieber. We won't talk about anybody, but you would walk down the hallway and you'd see people, the tension and the rage at the host. Yeah, yeah, sure.

And I remember Mike once, he'd left as well, and we were just sitting and he was saying to all of them, look, you guys are, you have it all wrong. This is the one you'll always talk about. Like you're gonna always talk.

10 years from now, you will have more good memories and good stories about this terrible host than you will about somebody, you know, look, Paul Rudd is gonna do an exceptional show and he's a great hang. But like 10 years from now, you're not gonna talk about the crazy Thursday when Paul Rudd had this crazy idea.

And so I liked that Mike was trying to impart that wisdom of, you know, the bad weeks are also great weeks here. Yeah so I like that Mike was trying to impart that wisdom of, you know, the bad weeks are also great weeks here. Yeah, I love that. And what's interesting is, like, to close the loop on Tim Robinson, it's like, and then you know, his sketch show I Think You Should Leave, we all, I think, love

as comedians. It's a perfect sketch comedy show. And probably wouldn't have existed if he weren't a writer on SNL all those years or he weren't a cast member. Yeah. I think it's all part of it. It is all part of it.

And I, again, want to keep going back to, he did kind of keep his, he had an optimism and hopefulness about a really bad thing that I think could crush other people's ego. I always quote you as saying this when I talk about SNL because I'm in love with it. I'm in love with the whole idea of it. And I probably misquote you, but you always say something to the effect of every week,

and it's always been this way. There's great sketches, there's terrible sketches, there's decent sketches. Yeah. And it will always always be that way it's the nature of the show is that sort of the paraphrase I think that's about right yeah and I think that ultimately

three great sketches makes a great show because it's really hard you know you're right that's enough if I

was there for twelve and a half years and you said what was the show that had nothing bad I think the first time Maya Rudolph came back and hosted, there wasn't anything bad in the show. But that also is built off the backs

of her being one of the most, you know, enduring multifaceted SNL cast members of all time. So it certainly helped. But there are very, every show's got a stinker. I mean, The Wire would not be as good of a show if they had a week to do each episode, like to write it, you know? And so the shows that we all go back

and we binge over and over again, they took the right amount of time. And so SNL, you know, part of the reason like the most brilliant things come out of it is also because there was no time to say, maybe this is a bad idea. Yeah. And so it works as an alchemy,

but there's a reason that individual sketches live on for years and years and years more than individual episodes. I found out, I didn't even realize. I was on Late Night, which by the way, congrats, 10 years. Yeah, 10 years. It's crazy. What a trip, man.

I was the seventh guest look at you i was the seventh episode of the show wow and what do we think 10 times how many times do you think a lot of times yeah i mean enough times that it i have all the mugs and the shirts and it pretty much wakes up you know what is interesting about 10 years is you pick they give you like 12 logos yeah and you just pick one and then that's just the logo forever yeah and it's really funny to look at it because i still like it but i like it for the same way i like a lot of things that i like which is is not a big swing it's just a nice logo you're not gonna get tired of yeah it's like working it out it's like how long is it going to be this just my

handwriting writing working it out i don't think you're ever going to get sick of it. Really? I don't think you will. It's funny, like, one of the things about your show that's changed, I think you and I could both have seen this coming, is Fred Armisen was the drummer, and then, like, Fred Armisen's kind of not around that much. Yeah, he's barely the drummer.

But then it's really exciting. You know, it is that thing of, I feel bad for, you know, when spouses get divorced and one spouse is in charge of, like, raising the kids. Yeah, yeah. And they're just around every day. And then the other spouse, you know, comes in for, like, a week, a month. And everybody's like, yeah, he's the fun one.

Because Fred comes in and he is the band leader on the show. Yeah. Barely there. But he comes in and it's,'s like the best week of the month. Oh, yeah. Because Fred is also funny in a way that no one else is funny. Who in all of your years of working with all of these writers and cast members on SNL, who's the person who is funnier than even their reputation, even if their reputation is big?

I mean, Fred's pretty close. And so much of what he has done that's funny is inappropriate to share. Yes. Fred used to do a bit for basically a month at SNL where he would come to the table read on Wednesday and just go, I can't believe I'm going to be the voice of all the Simpsons characters. And he would just be like just a guy who was just taking in how life-changing it was.

And then the bit would be, we would all be so proud of him. And I didn't even know you did the voices. Fred, do you do a Homer? And he would go, oh no. And just do slightly wrong. Like slightly wrong. Oh no.

And just, killer bit. Just a killer bit. Sandberg is, Sandberg is America's little brother. Yeah, beloved. Just beloved. And just that little brother, Needle. I've told this story so many times.

I apologize if anyone's heard me, but my favorite, because when I first met Sandberg, I thought, oh, he's juvenile and he's not my style. He seems like a perfectly nice person, but comedy wise, I don't think we're going to vibe much and completely won me over. I believe he's one of the smartest comedians with the most pristine taste.

But he would come to my office at two in the morning on writing night, and he would just poke his head in and go, hey, I'm going to the bathroom. You want to come with? And I'd say, I don't want to come with. And he'd be like, it's a really long walk. I'd love to come, but do you want to come with?

And I'd be like, I don't want to come with. And I had a frosted glass door, and he would close the door, but then he would just stand there so you could see a silhouette and he would just like breathe for a long time. Right. And it was so unnerving just as close to the glass. Um, and yeah, I mean, in general, to go back to what I was saying about how even failing at SNL has value. I do think I was there for one of the best periods. Oh, my God.

As far as just the talent. And watching the wigs and haters and fortes of the world succeed was thrilling. Watching them fail was equally thrilling. Because you were just watching people you knew were better at it than anyone. Yeah. Miss. And it was so, just I get to take that with me

because you're like, oh, nobody, nobody is good all the time. Yes. And sometimes one of the ways to being great is the lessons you learn by the near misses. So one time when I was on Late Night, the other guest was Lindsey Graham.

Yeah, that's an interesting time. Yeah, and I remember thinking like, I don't know if I could do Seth's job because I would feel like, and you had this, I think, with Biden this week to some degree, it's like, well, I have to be tough. I have to ask, I mean, it's a comedy show. It's a comedy show, so it's entertainment.

So, you know, they know it's a softball interview to an extent. But at the same time, I have to be somewhat real and rigid and ask some tough questions. The New York Times, that one, wrote about the Biden interview. And it's nice words where I was like, oh, I wouldn't have said that's what we're aiming for, but they said the interview was playful but pointed. And I'm like, oh, that's a good way to describe what you're trying to do.

But they're less fun. Like, politicians are less fun. And I also should say, you know, we had, I think, almost every Republican candidate but Donald Trump in 2016. And one of the few things we could agree on, be it with Ted Cruz or Lindsey Graham or anyone like that, is how Donald Trump was a disaster and a threat to this country. Like that, back then, that's what they agreed with as well, you know? Lindsey Graham, yeah.

Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz. Like we talked about how Donald Trump was a bad guy. Right. And so that was sort of the thing that we could be like, at least, you know, we have differing opinions, but we can agree on this. And of course, now you can't have those people back on because they don't, they wouldn't agree with you on that.

And so there's no value to it. They'd move the goalposts on him for sure. A hundred percent. So then what's the point? Because now you don't feel like there's any overlap with what you believe as a human being. That's a strange one. It's strange.

And by the way, it's also no great loss. I always said the funniest thing about having politicians on is you would say, you know, now, please welcome. He's a candidate for the next president of the United States. Please welcome. And, you know, Democrat or Republican, you know, there was a giant field, for example, in the last two Democratic primaries, right? Or I guess not, in you know there was a giant field for example in the last two democratic primaries right or i guess not in 2020 that was a giant field

and the audience gets so excited they're like oh my god i might be here in a night where i'm seeing the next president right and then like three minutes into the interview you just watch them sit back like this person's not gonna be president they they believed me when i said they're running for president and then they just would collectively so there's no great loss when I think our show

talking about politics is interesting our show talking to politicians less so by the way all politicians have like this is you know what you should do

you should do this for politicians who are like every time Chuck Schumer goes on a talk show he's got I got three jokes I'm gonna do

you're like don't you wanna have to do all three oh my god there are certain politicians Lindsey Graham's another got, I got three jokes I'm gonna do. You're like, don't you wanna have to do all three? Oh my God. There are certain politicians, Lindsey Graham's another one. They come with three jokes. They're gonna tell them no matter what. Yeah.

No matter what question you ask, they will like spin it back around. Yeah, of course. And. I hate that. Oh, it's just that, it's politicians with jokes, man oh man. Oh.

Politicians being funny is great, but when they're like a joke that somebody on their staff wrote. I want to do the drinking on your show. The day drinking? Yeah. I think you'd be bad at it, right? Yes.

I'm very bad at drinking, but that's why I think it might be funny. Maybe, but that's definitely leaning away from what we like about it. You don't strike me, well, maybe, I don't know. I've never, we've known each other a long time. We've never drank together.

We've just had lunch. Have we told this story ever about when we were meeting for lunch and Bradley Cooper? We should tell that. We were, I was waiting for you

outside for lunch, right? And so while I was waiting there, Bradley Cooper walked up and I was talking with Bradley and then you walked up and it was, my memory is like the most beautiful woman in the world walked by and like almost fell down

when she saw Bradley Cooper. Yeah, he's a handsome man. He really is. Yeah. I was once on a hike in France, like an Alps hike with my wife and my brother and his fiance. And a French family asked if I would take

their picture so I took the camera ticket and as they were walking this will sound this is just a true story Mike I don't know what and I the segue made sense yeah but then one of the French people said to another French person uh that was Bradley Cooper about me and my brother was like that's a crazy exchange rate no so Bradley yeah so the woman kind of he's a real head turner

that Bradley Cooper that's what it was it was to watch a physical head turn so so you and I ran into him on the street you know him

I don't and you introduced me and then I go, hey, I'm Mike, and I'm a comedian. I went to Georgetown around the same time you did. And he goes, all right. And it was a full blow off. I'm just like, well, that wasn't what I

was hoping for. I guess he meets a lot of people. Were you expecting him to sort of break into the Georgetown fight song with you? Yeah, yeah, that's what I was... Look, there's best case scenarios and worst case scenarios. Yeah, right, right, right.

That was somewhere in between. But you know, you do have that kind of thing in your mind. I mean, I feel like over the years when I meet celebrities, I've lowered and lowered my expectations so that I'm pretty grounded. And this is not going to lead anywhere. Now, again, you are also a celebrity and I'm going to say that if somebody said the same thing to you,

you would be lovely. Yeah, but thanks for saying that. And I, and I, I'll give that compliment back to you. And interestingly, like you are, I feel like not just to me, you're nice. You've always been nice to me. We've known each other for probably 15 years or plus, maybe longer. You're nice. Everyone I talk to who works with you really likes you personally. Is that from your mom? Is it from your dad?

Like, where does that come from? Because that's got to come from somewhere deep. I think my parents are very nice people. And I think they did not got to come from somewhere deep. I think my parents are very nice people, and I think they did not suffer bad behavior from their children. With that said, I think one of the core drivers of my kindness over the last, let's say, 15 years is I feel so lucky with how things have broken for me. I don't want to be, I find bad winners to be insufferable.

I'm not saying I'm a bad, I'm not saying I'm a winner, but like I got, you know, when I, the thing I wanted the most was update, right? I wanted updates so badly. I'm trying to walk back that you're not a winner. I don't think I'm a winner. Yeah, you are. That's the moral of the story. I don't think I'm a winner. Yeah, you are. That's the moral of the story.

I didn't want to come out and be like, look, winners win. But I... No, you have, you've done well and you don't want to,

yeah, you don't want to be a kind of annoying jerk. So when I got, again, all I wanted was update. I got update and then it gave me,

I don't think I was a bad person to work with before that, but my take on my whole experience at SNL after that is like, I'm gonna just try to make everybody as happy as I feel right now. Oh, that's nice. That's so sweet. So SNL's 50th anniversary is next year.

So are you gonna take over for Lorne or is it Tina and then you? I really don't. I think this is a false narrative that Lauren is going anywhere. Oh. I think that, look, nine years awarded to the 40th, I think it made sense for Lauren who's got a flair for the dramatic to say I think I'll be done at 50.

Yeah. But now it's not like Lauren's got something else he wants to do more than this. So you think it's Keenan? I think it's Keenan. That's my way of saying I think it's not like Lauren's got something else he wants to do more than this. So you think it's Keenan? I think it's Keenan. That's my way of saying I think it's Keenan. I mean, how long has Keenan spent on 20, right? It's crazy.

It's 20, right? 20, yeah. 20, yeah, he started in 2003. He started my second year in 20 years. How the world has changed. It used to be when someone was on for seven years, they'd go, that guy's been on forever. Kevin Nealon was on for, I think, 11 years or something.

Everyone's like, that's forever. Now, I think that it's unique to Keenan because Keenan is somehow still given new looks. Yeah. As a... His looks are priceless. Yeah, he's not the same vibe for 20 years. He's got Keenan.

I think the thing about Keenan that makes him such a good cast member is that he's so loose. He's so loose. Also. On a show that can feel tight, there's cue cards. You got to hit your mark. Also, there's this crazy thing that Mike, you and I don't have. Uh-oh. Keenan still seems young. You know what I Uh-oh. Kenan still seems young.

You know what I mean? 20 years, he still seems young. Yeah, I don't know. Kenan and I have that in common, but you... Yeah, I do not. You're a hard 50. I'm hard. I mean, me and Kenan are looking good.

You're looking great. You just threw both of us under the bus. Yeah, the new one, when I heard the title, I was like, that's about Mike, because he's always, always seems new. Yeah, but Kenan, yeah. I mean, the alchemy of Kenan Thompson is just remarkable. You started with him, right? I was two years before him.

Yeah, so I was 01. I was 01 with Polar. Then Fred and Forte were 02. Yeah. And then Keenan was 03 wow you had a podcast that's great Strike Force 5 you have two podcasts now actually

because you have family trips also which is also great but Strike Force 5 it was you and the other late night hosts raising money for the strike for people, for crews during the strike. Yes, for people. For crews. For crews during the strike who weren't working. A lot of whispers and murmurs

that you were the funniest of the bunch. Oh, were there? You ever hear that? No, I never heard that. Oh, come on. I mean, I would Google my name. Be honest. No, I was very-

False humility. I found my way. I think the nice thing about that podcast was- Have you heard this? I haven't heard it. No, no was very- False humility. I found my way. I think the nice thing about that podcast was- Have you heard this? I haven't heard it. No, no, no. I'm the first person telling you? Look, I'm very flattered because you have great taste.

And so I'll assume if you're saying it, everyone has. No, you're doing a pose I've never even seen. This is lying pose. That's great to hear. They go, who do you think is the funniest on the show? I go, I think they're all really funny. They go, who do you think is the funniest on the show? I go, I think they're all really funny. They go, I think the Myers is the funniest. I hear that a lot.

Well, it's incredibly flattering. It's a funny bunch of folks. It's a funny bunch of folks. Yeah. I thought, you know what? I thought Fallon. You and I. Fallon's hilarious.

But we know Fallon. I think there's a version of Fallon that, and he's super funny on his show, but there's a version, a different version of Fallon was on that podcast that I think you and I know a little bit better that I was so happy that people got to hear. Fallon, Fallon is so funny.

And he's, Fallon's got like a little bit of like Robin Williams in him. Yes. He'll go anywhere. And that was my experience of the first, when we overlapped at SNL. You and Fallon. Yeah, I think two or three years.

He has a kinetic bit energy where it is, yeah, very Robin Williams, like zigging and zagging, improvisational flair that is really impressive to watch up close. Who was, in that group, who was the easiest to work with? Who's the hardest to work with?

Kimmel, Fallon, Oliver. I mean, to work with seems like a weird way of saying it. I didn't, I mean, we all, I would say the podcast, which I think in the end was really fun and good. The first couple of episodes, I felt as though it was either a basketball team with five point guards

or to be less fair, a football team with five quarterbacks where nobody could catch, run or block. Yes. We had to figure it out. And by three we did. And part of it was just, we all knew each other

and I think we were all friendly. Yeah. But it took a few before we went from friendly to friends. And I think the difference is friends can tease each other without worrying the other person's going to take it personally. And so there was a little, almost a little too polite for two episodes because five comedians shouldn't, five comedians being polite is,

feels like really inauthentic. Right. And so once we started ragging on each other for boring stories or dumb bits or bad sound or weird lighting, like it just, that I think is when it became more enjoyable to listen to. You, and years ago, you, in an interview, you were saying that you find them,

of all the things you do, because you do so many things, you find the most joy in writing. Yeah. My question is like, how do you find the time? You have three kids, you have a talk show and you produce like five different shows. Sometimes we'll have lunch and you will, I've never experienced this with anyone.

You will, it'll be an hour and at like 59 minutes and 45 seconds you will be gone it'll be a puff of smoke you will be gone I've never met someone as scheduled as you in my life is this real? can you verify this?

yes because I would love a long lunch is the dream but I think a lot of our lunches were SNL days. Yeah. And so that was, I was really scheduled. But I also have a real good internal clock. Is that true? I walked on stage.

The last time I did stand up, I was aiming to do an hour and I recorded it. And I was just going, internal clock stopped it. It was an hour, and I recorded it. And I was just going, and Turn Clock stopped it. It was an hour and six seconds. I was like, pretty good. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. I can wake up in the middle of the night,

and I feel as though gas within five minutes what time it is before I look at my phone. When you look at, like, the old, like, because you and I probably grew up both on, like, Carson and Letterman. Yeah. When you look at those guys, they were older guys. Right. And it's like, do you see yourself as a 70-year-old man hosting late night or a talk show?

I don't. But at the same time, I never saw myself as a 50-year-old man, and I am. So ultimately, who knows? Yeah. There's that weird thing too, which is they feel like old guys, but I think I was certainly older when I started late night

probably than Letterman was. I mean, I was 40 when I started. Right, and he was like 27 or 28 or something. There's that. I think my friend Neil Brennan. Neil Brennan sent that around. The old people. The Wilburys. I think my friend Neil Brennan. Neil Brennan sent that around. The old people.

The Wilburys. Yeah. The traveling Wilburys. They were like 30 and they look like they're 50. Yeah. I think maybe Roy Orbison was the only one in his 40s. Is that just Neil Brennan who sent that around to a bunch of us? Neil told, now I feel like it's a meme.

But I do, Neil's a meme starter. I would hate. I think he told me he was the guy who put the years on it. I don't know. Neil Brennan is a mutual friend of ours. I don't think he sleeps. I think he's texting with comedians 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And always watching things, absorbing. No one in my life has ever said,

did you see the new Frontline on? It's like, Frontline? Like, I have nothing but love for Frontline, but if there was one Frontline a year, I'd catch up on Frontlines. Oh, that's so funny. This is the slow round. What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you?

I... What are people's favorite and least favorite thing? I think I'm... I would like to think I get points for loyalty. I'm very... I'm also very nice to people's friends and family. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. If you're my friend, I will be so nice to your friends.

I can vouch for that with you came to my girlfriend's boyfriend opening night party in 2011. And my, you know, my siblings are huge fans of yours. And like you just like hung out all night and like took photos and it was like super, super nice. I should also note, I'm not doing, I genuinely like people. I also tend to like the extension of my friends. So it's a good bet that I will then like their friends. So you have loyalty

and then what's people's least favorite thing? Oh, what is people's least favorite thing? I can be a little, but I'm not at work. I shouldn't make stress, but I can be a little, I guess short-tempered. Oh.

Yeah, I can be a little short-tempered. I've never seen that. Yeah. Can you think of an example? I can only tell you that I was in a car with my two sons and one of their friends and I was becoming frustrated and my oldest son said to his friend, oh, watch this.

My dad's about to lose it. It's so funny. And that's heartbreaking. Because then you realize, not one, I've done it enough that it's predictable. And two, it's not effective at all because they're not like, oh God. They're like, oh, don't miss this.

That is so funny. Heartbreaking. That's a bit though, oh God. They're like, oh, this, don't miss this. That is so funny. Heartbreaking. That's a bit though, for sure. Have you done that as a bit? I haven't done that as a bit. That's a perfect example of a bit. Yeah. Of something that should be a bit.

What's a time that you lied and you got away with it or didn't get away with it? I remember in, so I was really lazy in high school. I feel I would like test well and then get really bad grades and my dad had great fear justifiable fear that i was going to waste the opportunity to make the most of myself and i remember i got an f in science in eighth grade and uh kept not bringing i I just, I, this is,

it's not even a lie. I knew eventually the rubber is going to hit the road, but I kept saying the teacher hadn't given me my report card yet because they were changing something. And my mom, I should know this is why this was a terrible plan was a teacher at the school. And she was like,

why don't you have your report card? And I said, Mrs. Kent is changing. I don't know. And I kept doing this. And she was like, why don't you have your report card? And I said, Mrs. Kent is changing. I don't know. And I kept doing this thing. And you had it. I had it and it was an F and I had tried.

This is the worst part. Wow, a full F. A full F that I tried to change to an A then realized that was insane and then erased it. But my parents could tell that I had tried. Wow. And my dad, he was so mad at me.

He said, you thought you could change it to an A, and then what? And then what? No one would ever. And then I had to say, well, I obviously didn't do that. And he said, you only realized that. You were so dumb, you had to try before you realized it was dumb. That's also a potential bit.

I mean, that's a great... This is... I feel like I've told... My... Mrs. Kent was our science teacher and I remember

that when we had sex, Ed, she was showing... You took a long time between sex and Ed. Yeah. I remember when we had sex. Ed was she was showing... You took a long time between sex and Ed. Yeah. I remember when we had sex. Ed was there.

My friend Ed was there. She was showing us how to put on a condom, and she took out... It looked like one of the things you put paper towels on, like that. And she literally put it. She goes, I'm going to show you how to put on a condom. And she goes, this is the size of a male or a female penis.

And it was so tall. It was dead silence and one guy in the back just went, uh-oh. That was in sex ed? That was in sex ed. Is it? And what grade was that? Eighth grade?

Eighth grade, yeah. My God. Eighth grade. Very matter of fact. This giant wooden dowel yeah oh it was the great i we always said like it was the greatest thing because every one of us was thinking well mine and then uh-oh let us all know okay she's in the wrong oh my god that's so funny that um can you remember a time in your life where you were an inauthentic version of yourself?

Oh, yeah. I will say that my first few years on SNL, I tried very hard to be a... I didn't realize it. The outcome of my efforts was to be a worse version than people they already have on the show. As opposed to trying to do what I could do

maybe better than anybody else. Oh, I love that. I was trying to, oh, I can, you guys like Jimmy Fallon? What about a C-minus Jimmy Fallon? Right. Well, you already have

the regular one. Right. So there was a lot of that. So like, in other words, like, you would do like impressions and characters and like things that you weren't.

Here's a really good example of a bad instinct. It's funny when Will Ferrell yells. I'll do scenes where I yell. Maybe one of the only people who's funny yelling is Will Ferrell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The great comedy yeller. He is.

And I actually think I wasn't the only person negatively influenced by the yelling of Will Ferrell. Because there was, I think, a generation of screaming comedy that was worse than when Will did it. Cast members was, I think, a generation of screaming comedy that was worse than when Will did it. Cast members after him. Cast members after him, I think in movies. I think there was a lot of people trying to do-

Well, Tim Robinson's a good yeller. But it's been a huge gap of time. Yeah, yeah. Between, yeah. Because it has to be, it works when it's sort of a, it can't be like alpha yelling. It has to be that beta, It works when it's sort of a, it can't be like alpha yelling.

It has to be that beta, that comedy move of a beta who thinks they're an alpha. That's why Will Ferrell works as a yeller. For sure. Tim Robinson. Tim Robinson, yeah, yeah. Because Will Ferrell's a big teddy bear. Yes.

Whereas, and Will's different because Will, I'm sorry, no, Tim's different because he's not a teddy bear. He's just like a totally neutered, like every one of his characters. No, they internally know who they are and they're trying to prove an opposite. Yeah, he almost seems like a, his characters seem like a shell of a person who's yelling as a last resort. It's right. It's where every sketch is someone's last stand. That is great analysis of I think you should leave.

It's every character's Alamo you're watching in real time. That's right. Wow. What's the best piece of advice you've been given that you used? It's a long life. Every time I was really angry at SNL and wanted to have it out with someone, Mike Shoemaker, I remember his take was,

it's a long life. Oh, wow. His thing too was we, this group of people, it's very intense, but if played right, and if you don't follow through on every instinct of when you've been wronged things will the bad things will fall away and everybody you're mad at will be at your wedding wow that's super deep yes i think that that applies of course not just to sketch comedy

writing uh but uh but to life in so many ways because Because think about how many times a month someone does something towards you that is awful and you just got to like, yeah, you got to parse through. Well, what can I get around now for the larger picture of this? And what is actually endemic to a larger thing that's going to be a full obstacle?

You should stand up for yourself. It's not that. It's just sometimes when you're high pressure, crucible situation, something happens and there's not enough time to actually like speak about what happened to you in a loving way. And you're like, I'm gonna go to that person's office right now.

And then those are the ones that, then that's the thing that takes years to recover from. What bits do you have that are kind of half-baked or new? I like British crime shows. I think the reason I like them is the murder weapon's almost never a gun. I like that. It's like a hammer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like there's been another hammering. This is a bit I've done, and I feel like it's almost there which is can I say something real quick in defense of serial killers I'm not I want to say I'm not a fan of anything they do but this part and I certainly hate

all the killing they do and the fact that they do it so many that it's considered a series but in this day and age when we're moving so fast and everything is email and text, I think it's really nice that they leave a note. Oh, that's funny. And they're always very polite notes. Stay in touch.

It's always like, dear detective, the press has been very unkind to you. It's just like, nice. And then, look, I know a lot of people would be like, what about kidnappers? But their notes are always like so impersonal and they're just like cut out for magazines. And it's a lot of be here at this time and it's just none of it.

Right. It's very like, and then the part that's my favorite part, that's the part that doesn't work. I go, and then arsonists, of course, tell you they left a note. I like that. Yeah, it doesn't really work. note. I like that. It doesn't really work. No, I like that.

I wrote this down. I've been writing a bunch of jokes about drugs recently because we used to do the DARE program when we were kids, sixth grade. The cop come in and we dare you not to do drugs. We're like, wait, you dare us to do drugs or to not do drugs? To not do drugs. It's an acronym. We're like, what's an acronym? They're like, don't worry about it.

Don't do drugs. Before D.A.R.E., I hadn't considered using drugs. And then I was like, maybe I should try them out to know for myself. They have fun names, Angel Dust, Sugar, Crank, Boomers. I was like, these sound amazing. Is there a more exciting name than Angel Dust

for a sixth grade altar boy at St. Mary's School? That Angel Dust might get me into heaven. While I'm on my way to heaven, maybe I'll crank myself up on some Boomers. There you go. Yeah. Can I tell you a drug joke I tried recently? Oh, please, yeah. I recently went back and did a show

in Amsterdam where I used to live, and I was talking about how I wanted to apologize to the Dutch people, because when I lived there in my 20s, I did a lot of drugs at their amusement parks. Because we'd go there. And I did hard drugs. And let me just say that's a bad name

because they are so easy to take. Oh my gosh. Because that's calling acid a hard drug. You're like, you just put it in your tongue and it's gone. That's really funny. So easy.

I love that. This is just a true thing. I don't, I feel like my ears, I've never knew my ears were weird until I had to start wearing ear pods because they don't stay in. That's my favorite of the bunch.

Okay. Because now when I wear ear pods, I have to walk like I'm in a cotillion. Oh my God, that's so funny. Just like, you know those old things where you have to walk with a fucking book on your head? Oh, I like that. Oh my God.

Just because it's that fast. That's so funny. Oh, I like that. Oh, my God. Just visit that fast. That's so funny. Oh, I love that one. Yeah, keep that in. Also, I'm actually curious. It's just a general question. Step out. You've collaborated with so many joke writers over the years.

What do you think is the best quality of a joke writing collaborator? Because people who listen to the show write jokes. They create things. They collaborate. Never pitch a lateral move. Nice. Love it. That was Mike's shoemaker note. Nobody likes when

you're like, oh, this is equally as funny, but now this one's mine. Right. Smart. In other words, don't take someone's joke and pitch something that's maybe not as funny as that, but it's of the same premise. Yes, for example, I feel like it's got to be like,

you got to prove it like, it's got to be 50% better. Interesting, okay, super smart. Yeah, because otherwise you're just talking. Here's the other one I had is the slogan in the 80s. One of the slogans in the 80s was hugs, not drugs, but it's a false dichotomy. Drugs result in a lot of hugs. Yeah.

You know? You can do both. I don't think you should do drugs, but if you do, might be more hugs in your future. It's good. It's all right. A lot of people say America's greatest country in the world.

I feel like you, everybody should then have to say what their second one is. There's no, like one data point on a graph is pointless. Right. Right? Like my second favorite is Holland. Right. And like Tucker Carlson's is like Hungary.

Now we know why we're different. Maybe, right? No, I think that's super strong. I feel like we made a mistake when we started calling them great grandparents. Because it gave everybody a false sense they were about to meet somebody amazing. They're going to blossom.

But it just means really. Grandpa's about to go big. You've got to mean it. I've got to great. This is a terrible joke that I loved when I wrote and it doesn't work, which is I grew up loving rap. My wife grew up loving country, and so far country is winning.

My kids like country music because my kids like a lot of country musicians, also like trucks. But country music also has, the language is fine, but there's also like some real negative messaging in country music songs. For example, my seven-year-old can't fall asleep

unless he has a half bottle of whiskey. That's a great joke. According to his kindergarten teacher, my five-year-old will not say the whole alphabet because he hates his exes. That's very funny. But see, that's the difference. I was gonna...

The first one gets a laugh and the second one gets a collective. I was about to break your rule of laterally pitching. It's hard to not laterally pitch, by the way, because you don't know if something is a lateral pitch until you say it and then you go oh yeah

but like I literally thought like something with X's and then you said something with X's but also there's got to be something with

because there's awful country songs with abuse and hitting and things like that so there might be something in that universe the drinking one's great the whiskey one's great and hitting and things like that. So there might be something in that universe.

The drinking one's great. The whiskey one's great. X's never works, but it's so good. But I think it's because it's a de-escalation, I think, of the joke. I think the whiskey one is kind of a thing that a five-year-old shouldn't do. I think something with physical abuse of a spouse, I think, would be a heightening of that.

Stay with me. And I think you should do it on stage. No, no, no, exactly. I won't be there. Exactly. This might be, I'm now pitching what is probably a better episode of documentary now

than an actual joke. Good. Which is the guy whose job it is on a movie set to do the crazy drawings they find in a kid's notebook that lets you know there's like ghosts in the house. Oh, I like that. You know how they all look the same? It's like really like scribbly.

It's like a parent, like they all be like, eyes are scratched out. Yeah, yeah. Like I just, they all, I feel like there's one guy who's really good in Hollywood. Yeah. And they're like, yeah. And he's like, what is it?

He's like, oh, there's a wolf at the window. He's like, I can do a wolf at the window. There's like a thousand different wolves. And it's a good documentary now. Yeah, so. I love that. So what last thing is working out for a cause? What's a nonprofit that you like to support?

Sanctuary for Families is an incredible organization that my wife works for. And they focus on women who are victims of gender-based violence. And I've got nothing but great things to say about everybody over there, my wife included. We will contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes.

We will encourage listeners to also contribute. Seth Meyers, the the legend it's an honor to have you on the show you know what i had nothing but high hopes for this and it was just a delight thanks mike thank you all right i don't think i've ever called you mike i don't think i've ever called you mike anyone does this working it out because it's not done Nothing I've ever called tonight. Working it out, because it's not done.

Working it out, because there's no hope. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. I love talking to that Seth Meyers. Seth and his team over at Late Night just celebrated 10 years of the show. Congratulations to them. You can follow Seth on Instagram, at Seth Meyers, and listen to his podcast, Family Tripsps with Seth and his brother Josh Meyers. I was on it back in January.

It's so much fun. You can watch the full video of this interview on our YouTube channel. Check it out. Subscribe. We are posting more and more videos soon. Check out Burbiggs.com and sign up for the mailing list. All those new tour dates. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salamone, Joseph Birbiglia, and Mabel Lewis. Associate producer, Gary Simons.

Sound mix by Ben Cruz. Supervising engineer, Kate Balinski. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Amazing new album out now. I've listened to it so many times. I love it. Special thanks to my wife, the poet, J-Hope Stein. Little Astronaut is in bookstores now. Special thanks, as Special thanks to my wife, the poet, J. Hope Stein. Little Astronaut is in bookstores now.

Special thanks, as always, to my daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, rate and review on Apple Podcasts. And tell your friends. And while you're at it, tell your enemies. Let's say you get in a disagreement with someone at the office and you just want to shout. First of all, you got to remember, it's a long life.

The wisdom of Seth Meyers and Mike Shoemaker, it's a long life. And so instead of yelling at your coworker, you just say, hey, you know, there's this podcast where they work out comedic ideas on the podcast. It doesn't seem like anything, but it's actually, it's really entertaining. As a matter of fact, it's my favorite podcast other than Strength Force 5. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next time.