Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 127. Esther Povitsky: What Is Your Comedy Attachment Style?

Episode Date: April 1, 2024

Mike sits down with comedian, actor, and writer Esther Povitsky to discuss her special Hot For My Name. Mike has a lot of questions about the time Esther crashed her fiancée's bachelor party in Vegas. Plus, Esther figures out Mike’s attachment style, and they discuss the differences between the LA and New York comedy scenes. All this, and jokes about adults dressed as babies, watching OnlyFans with your partner, and being outed as a comedian on the subway.Please consider donating to Rheumatoid Arthritis Foundation

The story that you tell in your special that is so funny to me is your fiancé Dave had a bachelor party in Vegas. And then you showed up. You dropped him off at the airport and then you showed up in Vegas. Was it a bit? I mean, are you like Andy Kaufman? That's such an extreme thing to do in your life. Oh, my God. To get the Andy reference.

That is, oh my God, that's bigger than getting a Larry David comparison. Thank you. That is the voice of Esther Povitsky. This is a really fun episode today. This is a comedian who I have admired from afar for a bunch of years, but we've never met in person. We have a great time. You might know Esther from being on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend

or her fantastic standup comedy. She has a Comedy Central standup special that's on YouTube called Hot For My Name. It is a very cool, unique concept. It is her standup comedy intermixed with documentary footage with her parents in her hometown. And her parents are real fascinating characters. I love this special. I think it's fantastic.

We talk about that a lot on the show today. We have a great conversation. By the way, thanks to everyone who came out to my shows in Colorado. So much fun. Thank you, Joe Birbiglia, came along and skied. Next week, I'll be out in Texas. I'll be in Tulsa, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and then Austin. In Tulsa, I'm doing a little book event

in the daytime at Magic City Books, which is one of the great independent bookstores of America. And then at night, I'll be at the Tulsa Performing Arts Center. I am so excited about that. Then I'll be in Austin at the Moon Tower Comedy Festival. And I just announced my fall tour. I'll be in Red Bank, New Jersey. I'll be returning encore performances in Seattle,

as well as Portland, Oregon. Then folks have been asking about the California shows. I'll be in Oakland, San Francisco. Then I'll be in Philadelphia, Minneapolis, Madison, Milwaukee, Champaign, Illinois, Indianapolis, Ann Arbor, Detroit, Dayton, Pittsburgh. It's still going. Louisville, Nashville, Knoxville, Asheville, and Charleston. All of them at beautiful awesome

venues I'm a real nerd about theaters and venues speaking of which I will be very soon I will be in Chicago I'll be at the Chicago Theater one of the great theaters of the world Architectural Marvel

we added a third and final show there we recently added a third and final show there. We recently added a fourth and final show in Toronto and a fourth and final show in Washington, D.C. All this is on Burbiggs.com. You can sign up for the mailing list to get

the first news on presale codes and all that. We had a great chat today with Esther Povitsky. We talk about her Comedy Central stand-up special, Hot For My Name, which is so funny, and about her parents, like I said. It's a great talk. Enjoy my conversation with the great Esther Povitsky. I don't even know if you think about this,

but it's like you came from the universe of like ImprovOlympic in Chicago and Second City and then did Groundlings. But then like, at least from afar, you seem to be part of like the kind of like Bobby Lee and like Bert Kreischer, like Rogan, like bro LA universe. It's so weird. Yeah, I like it though.

Makes no sense. Thank you. No, but I like it. I'm trying to wrap my brain around it because when I came up in comedy, those worlds were almost like arch enemies, like improv and stand-up. Oh, I know what you mean. When I first started stand-up, I remember, because I just for whatever reason fell into being at the comedy store all the time. And like my first week of stand-up, Mark Maron, I met him at the store and was like, I'm such a fan.

This is so cool. I'm meeting you. And he looked at me and was like, this is literally, I've been in LA for one week. I was 21. He was like, you shouldn't be here. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, you don't, he's like, you should get out of this place. He's like, I actually have a he's like, you should get out of this place.

He's like, I actually have a show at this place called UCB. You should just come watch me and like see what that venue is. Sarah Silverman will be there. And he, it was funny. He really was like, looked at me and was like,

get out of the comedy store. Yeah. And I did go see his show at UCB and it was really cool. And I couldn't believe like Sarah Silverman was there. And then I went back to the comedy store. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. But how do you even end up at the comedy store?

Because you were like doing like groundlings. Well, I wasn't. So that's kind of all like fake news. Like I did. I took classes at those places, you know, because I grew up in Skokie, a suburb of Chicago. So I did IO and I loved it. And, you know, I was in college at Champaign-Urbana and I really did not fit in. And so every weekend I would take the train back to Chicago, a two-hour train ride back to Chicago to do class at IO.

Oh, my God. I love that. I know. But it's so late. It's like I left college on the weekends like to go take a different class. It's like so sad. I clearly did not fit in with the culture there. But so, and then that's when I was like halfway through my junior year and was like, I'm quitting. Like I hated, I hated college. Um, so I took those classes and then I forgot where it was cause I'm eight months pregnant. But you, so you were taking those classes and then I forgot where it was because I'm eight months pregnant.

So you were taking those classes and then eventually went to Los Angeles after school? I moved to L.A. And the night I moved to L.A., I was at a bar on La Brea called Luna Park. And I was just like goofing off with my friend who had driven me out. And she was like, you're really funny. And I was like, really? That's so weird like I just moved here to kind of like get into comedy but I don't know how and she's like you should go to the

comedy store and I was like okay and I'd never heard of it and then that was like that was it this is a weird story I know it's like everything just kind of like, like I didn't, I cannot express to you how naive I was when I moved to LA. I literally thought, and I always tell Dave this and he's like obsessed with it. Your fiance, Dave King. Yes, yes. Are we allowed to say that? Yeah. The writer, Dave King.

He's hilarious. Who's a huge fan of yours. Oh. I thought when I moved to LA, I was like, look, all I want to do is try to make it. And here's what's going to happen. In one year, I'm going to either be Will Ferrell. The one year plan is going to be huge. I will be Will Ferrell, movie star.

And if not, I'll move home and I'll work at Walgreens. I can walk there from my parents' house. I don't need a car. So those are my two options. And that was not smart. I had a Walgreens. I can walk there from my parents' house. I don't need a car. So those were my two options. And I was just, that's how, that was not smart. I had a lot of learning to do. It's funny how different the plans are from the outcomes, right? Like, because it's like I, similarly, like I was like, I'm going to move to New York and then I'm going to live on my sister Gina's couch, not even far from here in Brooklyn.

And then I'm going to get past at all the clubs and then I'm going to, you know. Wait, I feel like that sounds great. Yeah, but it didn't work. It didn't work right away. Right, right. It worked over the course of a few years. Yeah. And what's interesting is there was no, it's funny you're saying like on the weekends you were driving from Skokie.

From Champaign, yeah. Was it a train? Train, yeah, yeah. Train, yeah. Similarly, like when I was in college, I was working the door at the Washington DC improv and I would like take the bus like on the weekends and go over and it was kind of like that's what I was really interested in but then meanwhile like I was at this college and I was supposed to be like studying and I was sort of but I was mostly studying like writing and I was kind of

blowing off my other classes and I was really like trying to be a comedian. That's so similar to me. Like I remember feeling so frustrated and isolated in college. Like I had this almost like I was hitting my head against the wall, this feeling that was like, I know I like learning and I want to learn, but I don't like what they're making me learn. And it And it frustrated me. I couldn't express that. And that led to me quitting. But I was very lost in college. And I'm very envious of people who found the right school and got to have a good experience.

But that wasn't really on the table for me. My parents really wanted me to go to that specific school, which was a Big Ten school, two hours from the house. But that was frat sorority culture. I didn't drink. I can see how it very easily led to me being isolated and watching The Office illegally and just being obsessed with comedy. But then you fell in with this whole universe of essentially

like Comedy store comics yeah like bobby lee's and like burt kreischer's of the world not burt so much he wasn't really around but i think that's just a name that like brands that that it's like very much the branding of it i love burt but i don't actually know him that well but bobby definitely and like who was in that yeah marin whitney oh whitney yeah um chelsea and natasha were around mosha came around you know mosha mosha cash cash is a stork to me i didn't realize actually he is yeah i know he's another one where it's like wait that doesn't he should be at the ucb right he's. You know? Like, those kinds of people, I would say. Yeah.

This is literally all new to me because I'm so disconnected from the Los Angeles comedy scene. Like, when I'm there, I maybe go to Largo or something. You know what I mean? That makes sense why we've never had crossover because I'm so, like, an L.A. girl,

which I hate. Like, I hate it. It's, like, embarrassing because the L.A. comedy scene has the worst reputation. Like, I hate it. It's, like, embarrassing because the L.A. comedy scene has the worst reputation. Like, it's just lame. And then, like I was saying earlier, I spent four months in New York last year, and it was like my dreams came true.

I got to play the New York comedy clubs and, like, walk around from set to set. And I really had the, like, romantic, I'm a stand-up, I'm on the subway. So I, like, I'm on the subway. So I like long for that so much. Wow. We got to steal you. I want to so bad. New York comedy's got to steal you. I know.

Yeah, but then there are, yeah, there is like a weird like New York, LA comedy schism. But there are a lot of great LA comics. So it's like not that grounded. It's not that founded of a snobbery that New York comics have. Yeah, but I do, I know that like I fit in one of the LA comedian stereotypes,

which I can't believe I'm putting myself on blast, but it's like, I'm not really a joke girl. I know that's like bold to say as a person who identifies as a stand-up comedian, but I feel like in New York, it's really about the jokes, which is makes sense. And I am like, I have this aversion to actual jokes. I know that's- But you have some great jokes. Like you have that great joke about how you're like,

I would never be with my dad. He's 75 and broke or whatever. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. That's such a joke joke. I guess that's true, but there's something within me that fights that thought, and I'm almost like I'm icked out by jokes and I want to pretend that they're not jokes because there's something about like the, like the algebra

or like the math of like a hard hitting joke that I'm, I don't like it. And when I think about standup for me, I, it needs to feel like a real thing I would say. Yeah, of course. And not- I agree. And so I would rather it be that than like a perfectly crafted joke, even though they, like you said, it is a joke,

but in my mind, I can't, I'm like, ew, no, it's not. But I'm obsessed with that exact thing that you're saying, which is the intersection of something you would say and that is real and true to you and also something that, like that joke about your dad, like has a left turn. Yeah, it gets a laugh at least. Yeah, but also it's an insane left turn.

You know, like, I'm not attracted to, you know, I've never slept with my dad or whatever he's 75 and doesn't have money like it's an absurd line but it's true it's also true like it's true but it's a full joke i mean you claiming to not like jokes and then like writing a joke that perfect is like you have a lot to answer for that's so nice of you and i'm really i do appreciate you coming to bat for me right away and like making sure everyone knows I do tell jokes but um like I think a lot about that sort of judd like rule in comedy and I bring that up because I know you work with him and you probably

like follow this too but I always think like what is the funny thing that it's funny coming out of that person's mouth yeah that's and that's why your your special hot for my name is part of the reason it's so funny hot for my name yeah yeah it's which is which is also by the way a great joke and true and true right so it it's like, I think I can give this away because the special came out a few years ago. Yeah, totally, please. But it's like,

it's like someone suggested that you change your name when you moved to Hollywood. Oh, yeah, that's right. And then you're like, no, Povitsky's a family name. And they're like, no, no, Esther.

You're making me laugh with my own jokes. Yeah, it's a good joke. Come on. Come on, people. These are good jokes. You're actually making me feel a little relieved. At least you are retelling of them because as I was saying when we were walking in here,

when you watch your stand-up from three, four years ago, I'm just like, my delivery. I just can't. Really? Yes. It's so stiff and I don't like it at all. I feel so eager to get another special out because I want to be so different now. I don't like it at all. And I'm, I feel so eager to get another special out because I want to be so different now. I don't know, but I am glad at least that I'm like, okay, the material sounds like it was okay. It was really funny. And like, just to give context to people who haven't

seen the special, you should watch the special. It's on YouTube. It's on all the Comedy Central, wherever Comedy Central is now. I don't know. No one knows. No one knows. company central is now i don't know no one knows no one knows yeah um but it's a great special and you you go in between vignettes of you with your actual parents in skokie and it's great like to the point where the the interludes are so good that i'm like what did you shoot 100 hours of this stuff like it's so good or did you just get gold right away we shot not a ton but more it's certainly more than what we got what we showed so somewhere in the middle of your two guesses i would say and i'm very proud of that footage and in fact i'm like my goal compliment or diss for the special i love when people are like your esther your stand-up is the least funniest thing and you're special. That's the goal.

I think my parents are so funny. I mean, everyone thinks their parents are funny, so I get it. But I'm glad that we actually kind of captured some of it. Yeah. And also sort of like the origins of why I am this way I think are there a little bit. So you say I love you to your parents. Do they say I love you back yeah okay yeah because your mom tucks you in and you say you're my best friend and she doesn't respond and then you say I love you oh yeah it's really sweet and she says I don't I said

no I and I go am I your best friend she's like I don't have a best friend I don't have a best friend. I don't have a best friend. Yeah. She's Finnish. And so she's just like not, there's just, they don't really emote. Oh, is that what it is? Yeah. The Finnish people are quiet. Oh, interesting. And they're kind, but it's a quiet kindness. Healthcare. Yeah.

They have saunas. They have their annual checkups and saunas. Yeah. Yeah. They're drinking a lot of water. Yeah. But they don't emote. No.

She's very different. I get it. Culturally. I always think like if you can take something that is like awkward and painful and embarrassing and put it out there. Like the story that you tell in your special that is so funny to me is your fiancé Dave had a bachelor party in Vegas. And then you showed up. You dropped him off at the airport and then you showed up in Vegas.

Yeah. I can't even grasp how you would arrive at that as a good idea. Wait, that's like the exact perfect reaction that like everyone gave to me. Everyone, and I'm in shock. I don't understand this side. You showed up at his hotel room. He didn't even tell you his hotel room number. You got it from the front desk.

What are you doing? I know. And it's fascinating. Again, I never could have come to your view of it, but everyone gave me this view. I remember my dad sat me down and was like, you need to come to your senses and not do this. Did you tell your dad you were about to do it? Yeah. I told my parents. You told everyone in your life, but you didn't tell you were about to do it yeah i told my parent i told

everyone in your life but you didn't tell dave yeah yeah was it a bit i mean are you like andy kaufman like that's such an extreme thing to do in your life oh my god to get the andy reference that is oh my god that's bigger than getting the larry david comparison thank you holy shit David comparison. Thank you. Holy shit. I have to deflect that. That's too nice. But obsessed. But I genuinely am just my brain is just delusional. I thought it would be funny. I thought he would be happy to see me. Okay. Okay.

He wasn't. So it is a little bit of a bit. Yeah. Like I definitely in the way I told it in the special, was more like I was going to see what he was up to because I found that I needed an angle or else it seemed so wacky that I did that. Yes. But that was not it at all. I literally was just like, hey, I thought it would be funny. Oh, my gosh.

I know. He did not think it was funny and he was pissed. It's an invasion of privacy. Yes, I'm learning boundaries at 35. I'm learning them. But he was, it was like, it was so awkward when I got to his room. He had the energy of,

I guess I'll invite you in. And like we sat in his room and it was just like a quiet, like he was like, why did you do this? And I was like, it's not funny. Are we sure? Are we sure? Like, it's crazy.

We're both comedians. We're both comedy writers. It's a funny thing. And then I quickly had to reassure him, like, I'm not here to hang out with you and your friends. And I think that was like a huge relief, you know, that I wasn't going to like. Right. Crash. Yeah.

Fully crash. Yeah. And with that, and then, then it was fine. And he's still kind of like, I literally can't believe you did that. And also like men online. Men online. Not a fan of that. Always a disturbing beginning of a sentence, men online.

Like I get so much hate when that story comes up. Like people just, and I'm like, I don't know. I don't see it the way everyone else sees it. And I'm like, hopefully I only ever have one fiance with one bachelor party. It was a once in a lifetime deal. And I think also too in my head, I was like, oh, maybe it'll be like a movie idea here or something. That's a really funny thing about Men Online. Do you get the Men Online hate generally for your stand-up?

No. And if I do, I tune it out. It's like the same generic stuff. I don't really care. I think I've been getting criticized for so long, as has everyone who exists online. I tune that stuff out pretty I do a good job at it there was just that one specific that's bachelor party came up on a podcast I was doing with Rick Glassman last year and I was like whoa I didn't again I just didn't

see this reaction coming I saw it so differently but but it's also when you put it in the context you're putting it in, it is very funny. Thank you. Like I didn't see it. Like the way you tell it is as though you're not doing it as a bit, but you're explaining it now. Like it is, that's a very funny, absurd thing to do. Are you the type of girlfriend who, like, would you read his texts? The first like few months of our relationship i did shocking and it was yeah and it was like the after the third time that he was in the shower and i went through his phone and there was nothing there i was like oh this is done like i don't need to do this anymore i like got it out of my body but it's because i was such a crazy young girl in my 20s who was in like my

previous relationships were like everyone was lying and fighting and it was toxic and so i only knew that and so then i find this healthy guy this boring man dave king who's like so mature and healthy and of course i'm gonna start it out being old Esther, who's like, you know, suspicious and whatever and just insecure. Couldn't believe that this guy would actually be couldn't had never had the experience of like a guy liking me, being honest, just genuinely enjoying spending time with me. So I just didn't know that that could be. And I think that's like more common than you think. It's like if you don't find that, how do you know that that exists? And so I really like learned a lot of how to be like a secure adult, secure attachment.

That's what he has. I had anxious, insecure or something. Is this like a clinical thing that I don't know? Yeah, but you don't know attachment styles? No. What? Yeah, I know. I know attachment styles. Let me just look it up. If you don't know them, you're probably secure attached.

No, I, you know, tell me what they are. Cause I, I'm curious. So there's like anxious attached, anxious avoidant, avoidant, and then secure. And so like what? No, no. I'm just like it's a lot to take in. I feel like I'm like all of the above or something. No, I think you're giving secure. Don't worry. I'm giving secure vibes.

Yeah, like the most common toxic combo is an anxious and an avoidant. So then it's like the anxious is like, are you sure you like me? And then the avoidant is like, oh, they like me too much. And then they run away. And then the anxious runs closer. Oh, yeah, that seems bad. That was like everything before I found Dave. Really?

Yes. That was all your relationships? Yes. I mean, it's not that many, but it's like I was always anxiously attached. And the person was avoidant of discussing it with you. Yeah. Not maybe specifically that, but just that would play out in different ways. And I think this is all our caregiver's fault. Is that true? You think it's from our parents? That's what they say. Wait, in other words, like we're mimicking what our parents did.

Like if you're secure attached, that means that your needs were always met. And I think if you're anxious, your needs were sometimes met. Okay. So if you're anxious, your needs were sometimes met. Okay. So I don't remember what avoidance is, but. You were abandoned by your dad. But I wasn't. So I don't really know what happened. I keep trying to figure it out, but I can't. It's like, I think it actually is my fault in some way. But anyway, so I think for people out there who are like, I don't know how to get out of the break this cycle. It's like you kind of need to get on board with a secure attached

and learn there. Right. And that's what happened right away with him. I couldn't believe it. It was just like, and that's, I feel like a common theme for me. I kind of just need to be exposed to the right thing and then I can get the hang of it. Interesting. So you're anxious and so you needed a secure. Yeah. Wow. Every anxious

needs a secure. Everyone, you need it. But how many, are there enough secures to go around? Great question. They say that there should be but I don't buy it I think they're so rare certainly in Los Angeles and honestly New York I bet this is a joke I've kicked around for years

but I always say to my single friends don't move to New York because every single woman thinks they're in Sex and the City and every single woman thinks they're in Sex and the City and every single man thinks they're in Mad Men and we're all in Game of Thrones. All right, so this is called a slow round. What are people's favorite and least favorite things about you?

Oh my goodness. I'm like, I don't want to know. I don't know. My family's favorite thing is probably that I pay for everything. Oh, that's huge. Financial stability. They love when I do that. And I fully am on board with buying their love.

I don't mind at all. And least favorite, I'm a mope. Oh, you're a mope. Like I'm like a complaining mope. Yeah. Wow, really? Like literally I was complaining about being pregnant and then someone was like, I think you're always like this. And I had to really look within and be like, okay, there is for sure some truth to that.

What's the thing that you find yourself complaining about most on a regular basis? It's so hard because right now it's just being pregnant. Yeah, yeah. And I can't remember life before that really. Oh, my gosh. Like, I don't know. My natural disposition is not like, happy, let's plan the day. You know, that's not, neither me or Dave are like that.

We always joke, like, we need a third person in the relationship to just, like, plan stuff. Because we're not planners, but we're working on it. I guess the third person could be the baby. Is that good? Yeah, that's not too much to put on the baby. But you know what my dad always says about me, which I think is he's like, he says

I'm a generous laugher and that I do like to have fun and that that's probably what people enjoy. And I do think in comedy especially, I because we're around people who like to make people laugh and I like to laugh, that it's easy to fit in for me because I'd so much rather be sitting in the green room

quiet laughing than be the one making laughs. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I mean, when I'm on stage, I want my stage time, but I'm just saying when people are all hanging out, that's when I love to just sit and be. I'm on stage I want my stage time but I'm just saying like when people are all hanging out that's when I love to just sit and be I'm like a little baby

I'm like entertain me you guys are funny and thankfully we're in a business where a lot of people are like down totally so I'm gonna look at that as a good quality it is a good quality even though it's not

I just really rip the positive quality out of you. I love to have fun, even though I'm a mope. Your most positive and least positive were both negative qualities. We've never had that. What's a song that makes you cry? I don't cry that easily, despite clearly looking like I do, like I would. I have

the personality of a girl who cries all the time, but I've like trained myself to be tough for some reason. But I love listening to Lana Del Rey. I love her music, her lyrics. I love that she's a sad lover girl and she's similar to sort of what we've been talking about like she's really honest about vulnerable things yeah it would be hard to share just like being way too into a guy or something like that so I do really really like I like her music a lot so you get locked into the emotion of her stuff but but you don't necessarily cry. No, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Her stuff, I think it's just great for that exact reason. Yeah. There's not a lot of like crazy girls out there really articulating it well. Yeah. And beautifully. And she does it. Was there a group growing up that wouldn't let you in? Like my own family oh my god this is i'll quickly

tell you my famous story my famous story of being at my aunt's house in wisconsin and like not being able to find any of my cousins and then just sitting with the adults for like two hours listening to them talk and And it was so boring. And I was just like, I don't know where everyone is. And then finding out they were all playing in the attic without me. Oh. So that was hard. So your own child peers.

Yeah. I still don't know why. Why do you think they excluded you? The only lead I have. The only lead? Is that my sister was the oldest and she was the ringleader. And she was probably like, it's fun to play with other kids other than my sister. That's like the softest version I can think of that I can live with. So you were really excluded from like even just kids.

Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't feel that way at school like i felt like at school i was confident and kind of a leader it was more yeah i kind of none of this is adding up now that i think about it but i just was very also different from my family because my mom like i said was finnish and my dad is jewish and so it was always with my mom's family. And so I was like the Jewish one. And I think that made me like just a little different.

Yeah. You know. It makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember as a kid doing something bad and you got away with it? You know, I did a couple of things that were bold. And I remember my dad's reaction,

which would not be what you'd think a dad's reaction would be. It was like, well, you're trying new things. So there was an acceptance of kookiness. What was the thing? Do you remember? Or can you not say? I don't want to say. Oh, you don't want to say? No. Wow. It was like extreme.iness. What was the thing? Do you remember? Or can you not say? I don't want to say. Oh, you don't want to say?

No. Wow. It was like extreme. Yeah. Wow. Jesus. I know. I'm sorry.

What is the general theme of what occurred? Nudity. Okay. Maybe bleep that out. Okay. Bleep out the theme i mean we can but like i think you gotta find your inner lana del rey on this one yeah okay you don't have to bleep it wait till i walk down the aisle oh my gosh my gosh. So your dad with that incident was just like, well, you're just finding yourself. Yeah.

That's nice. I love that. Yeah. I'm grateful for that too now. Yeah. Because I was never – it made me not feel shame and I didn't feel like I need to hide things from my parents. When I learned that other kids were doing that, I was like, why? I don't know.

So I hope that that's something that I want to – I hope that as a parent I can figure out how to replay. Yeah. Do you – like what are the things that you hope to model, you know, to do? What do you hope to do as a parent that your parents did? And then what are the things that you want to kind of reverse that you got from your parents? I don't know.

Will you tell me what to do? I don't know. I mean, I think we're all trying our best. I have no plans as a parent. I think that's fine. Yeah. That seems good. We'll just figure it out, right?

I won't overthink it. Yeah, I think that seems great. Yeah. That seems good. We'll just figure it out, right? Won't overthink it. Yeah, I think that seems great. And Dave is healthy and secure. And so I feel like I can trust that he'll have good instincts. He's, I will say of all the people I've met, your fiance Dave, he's one of the more stable people I've met in the comedy field. He's very stable. Or presents as stable.

He's so stable. Interesting. Yeah, it's field. He's very stable. Or presents as stable. He's so stable. Interesting. Yeah, it's great. It's so weird. Like we always joke that if he ever killed me, my parents would take his side because they would know that he's so stable that if something led to that,

they'd be like, we know that if he did it like right he had to wow you should do that as a bit oh okay you can do that i'll try it that's a great bit okay you just gotta find more punch lines but it's like that's a it's the hardest part yeah but that but that's a great setup because it because it's the exact thing we're talking about. It's true. Right. It's insane. But there's truth there. If someone killed their daughter, they would take the guy's side because that guy is such a champ. He's such a good guy.

Such a stand-up fella. Yeah. And what's the psychological term you use for him? He's steady or he's... Secure attached. He's secure attached. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I just think it's really fertile. That's a good idea. I see how you're really good at, like, directing and helping people shape one-man shows. Like, because I feel like the things you're picking up on are good, big themes that would... There'd be a lot there. Well think like that's why i don't know that's kind of the premise of the show and the premise of i feel like the way i think about

comedy which is like you kind of just have to hang out with other comics and have them tell you what's interesting about you because yeah because you kind of can't know yes oh my god i so remember making that discovery of like the first few times you talk about yourself with other comedians. And then they're like, wait, that's crazy. And you're like, it is? I would have never known. That is such a real way to find stuff. I'll throw it back to you.

What do you think? You listen to this podcast. What do you think I might be missing about myself that might be funny oh that's interesting what should i explore that i haven't explored maybe and they might be wrong like i'm open to it being not even right i wonder like what it's like to move through the world as like just a guy with like blue eyes that's like friendly i don't i'm like i don't know anything about what like i'm curious like did women like you when you were single like are you insecure or confident this is so funny did you what one thing i was like recently rethinking especially

about the movie because it was about a sort of about a breakup like one of the things that really upset me about being a few specific times i was dumped was that when i was being broken up with the guy really i could feel his his main character energy like making me feel small and then that got me thinking like do all guys just have main character energy and then but i i know i like always thought i had it too so i'm not like hating on guys for having it but i would be curious like do you do you feel like a main character kind of guy? Or did you when you were, you know, like finding yourself? Or are you not that and that's why you're successful because you're like, you're weird?

I don't know. These are good questions. And I think these are good, like, penetrating kind of I should self-probe on a lot of this stuff. I was talking recently about, about like being single for this exact reason. Like I, and it didn't go anywhere because it's almost like, I feel like the audience sometimes can't flash back with me on it because they're kind of like, we can't even picture you when you were in your twenties. Like I, like I had this joke where I was like, when you were in your 20s.

Like I had this joke where I was like, like I hated being single because it's like this like insane experience where you're just like basically like walking around the world being like, does anyone want to be naked at the same time? And then like a lot of people are like, no. And then you got to be like, oh, me neither. You know what I mean?

And then some people say yes, and then you say no. And then that's a whole thing. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, that was my experience of being a single person. It was a lot of, I think it was a lot of anxiety at matching and mismatching all the time. Oh. Being like, we're a match.

We're not a match. I'm going to go. Okay, I don't want this to end. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, what age did you find your- In my 20s. And then, yeah, and then I met Jenny, you know, when we were like 20.

I was like 25 or something. Oh, okay. So that's pretty young. And then we got married when I was 30. Oh, wow. Yeah. See, that's very different from someone like Dave, who I would always be like to him, wow. Before we met, like, you must have just been like at home in your apartment.

Like, I wonder when I'll find her. You know, you must have just been thinking that. And he would just, his response is like, no, I was fine. I didn't think about that at all. I was reading books, watching shows. And I'm like, what? This is the Working It Out section. It's just new material that I'm trying to... Do you just jot things down in your phone kind of thing?

Yeah, yeah. That's sort of my whole deal. Yeah. I had the one the other day. My Uber driver in New Jersey didn't speak English, and so we didn't really talk. But then we drove by a man dressed in a full baby outfit, like a bonnet and a tight fitting mini top. And the driver looks back at me and he goes, baby or no baby? And then he starts

laughing and then I start laughing. And then I go, exactly. And I realize that in that way, like, comedy crosses all barriers, baby or no baby. It does. That is beautiful. That just makes me feel good. It makes me. Oh, it does? Yeah. Because I can't think of a specific, but I, of course, have had interactions that are awkward and quiet and then something really crazy happens and you're instantly like when you discover you're

on the same page with this person that you assumed you would have nothing in common with but it's like oh we're well we're not we're both not crazy enough to dress up like babies and think that's normal totally so we have that and then i wrote this which is i feel like we don't choose what we remember from our own lives like i don't remember my daughter's third birthday party, but I remember the day that my friend Ed told me that you could watch porn on the internet for free. They weren't the same day. It was the fall of 2011. I couldn't believe it. I was like, all my dreams are coming true at the same time. And then I do this digression where I go, to be clear, I don't support the ethics of how porn is made. But it's kind't support the ethics of how porn is made,

but it's kind of like the ethics of eating meat. I've watched the documentaries about how awful the meat industry is, but I also love a good fried chicken sandwich. And I think that those contradictions can peacefully coexist, or I should say they're going to have to, because good luck trying to get people to stop eating fried chicken sandwiches while eating porn. I like that comparison a lot, that analogy. The meat industry. Yeah, because I feel the same way about both industries. Pretty much actually everything we consume as Americans is got's like got here of this like sweater everything got here phones the phone what the hell's in those phones where'd we where to come from

it's all gotten here in a really bad way but i'm it'll be gotten gains yeah but i'm complicit and i will never not be i'm not gonna like lead the charge and like move us all to an island where there's peace like i don't know how to do that right but i wait now i'm thinking like is there ethical porn i guess only fans is ethical have you ever watched only fans have you watched i mean yeah there is this one girl that i knew that dave was about, and he would never do it himself. And I was like, I signed up. You can look. Oh, my God.

That's so funny. I felt like I was being really nice with that. And he was like, oh, that's cool that you did that. But he's not interested. He wasn't like, whatever. But yeah, sometimes, I mean, look, when you're a girl in Hollywood for 15 years, you're going across people who are eventually gonna end up on OnlyFans and you're gonna want to see what's going on oh interesting so that's my take on it so in other words like you've encountered people in Los Angeles where you're like they've mentioned or someone else has mentioned they're on OnlyFans

and then you're like eventually you're like all right I'll support I'll support that yeah I'll throw $8.99 your way way just to see what's going on and maybe get creatively inspired. I don't know. I get that. Did you feel creatively inspired? No. Do you have any bits you're working on that are like half seedlings of bits

or anything like that? Well, it's like a bad time because the pregnancy has been rough yeah so I have not been that great like I gotta feel comfortable to be creative and it's been a minute yeah but this is absolutely nowhere near a bit but I did recently clock that I was just really feeling strongly that I wish that me and Dave were a gay male couple. I feel like gay male couples, like, they just, they're awesome. This one, again, came up because of my misery towards my pregnancy. And he agreed. He was like, I wish we were a gay male couple, too.

Like, we just, we were both kind of going into what that could be like. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. There's something appealing about that. Yeah. Just a strong gay couple raising a child. There's no hormonal cycle that we're dealing with.

There's no, I don't know. It seems like gay men's sex life's probably really fun. There just seems like there's a lot of, I don't know. It seems like gay men's sex life is probably really fun. There just seems like there's a lot of, I don't know. I would love some testosterone. But again, this is like the pregnancy. I'm just like, I can't believe this chore that I have. No, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm grateful. Yeah, you're grateful. You're grateful.

Bless. Hashtag bless. Yeah. I'm grateful yeah you're grateful you're grateful bless hashtag bless yeah wait I actually

I have a funny I have a random story about the that porn joke the remembering porn joke yeah I don't

I don't know if I'll if I'll do this as a bit but I just it's an interesting addendum which is I was on the subway to the comedy cellar

one night and I had the little joke cards you know like this and I'm going through them. And this woman next to me goes, oh, are you a comedian? And I go, yeah. And she goes, I go, yeah, I'm just heading to the club right now. I'm working on new jokes. And then we both look down at the card and it says, remembering porn. And then it just sat there and she didn't say anything and I didn't say anything. And then I left the subject. It was horrible.

She's probably like, he's not very good. Exactly. It was truly like, oh, the titles for these jokes are so embarrassing. But isn't it kind of fun when someone finds out you're a comedian, they don't know who you are, and you could tell that they feel bad for you and you're like, no, it's fine. I'm fine. Trust me. Don't worry about me. Yeah, yeah.

I'll be all right. So the final thing we do is called Working Out for a Cause. And basically, if there's any nonprofit that you support, we contribute to them and we link to them in the show notes. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. Anything for rheumatoid arthritis. Okay. I can't remember the name of the foundation.

I'm going to look it up. So we're going to contribute to the Rheumatoid Arthritis Foundation at helpfightra.org. And thanks for coming on the show, Esther. Thank you so much for having me. I'm such a fangirl of this show. And thanks for coming on the show, Esther. Thank you so much for having me. I'm such a fangirl of this show. I discovered it a couple months ago and just completely binged the whole thing and was like, this is the only smart content in comedy podcasting. And so I'm really grateful.

Awesome. Well, thanks for doing that. Thanks for having me. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. I loved talking to that Esther Povitsky. Her special Hot For My Name is on YouTube. Her movie, Drugstore June, is playing in select theaters and is available to rent on VOD. You can follow Esther on Instagram and TikTok at Esther Monster. At E-S-T-H-E-R Monster. You can watch the full video of this interview on my YouTube channel,

at Mike Birbiglia. And check out birbiglia.com, sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about all of my upcoming shows. Our producers are myself, along with Peter Salamone, Joseph Birbiglia, and Mabel Lewis, associate producer Gary Simons, sound mix by Shubh Saran, supervising engineer Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers

for their music. Jack's album is fantastic. The Bleachers album is fantastic. Hopefully we'll have him on the podcast soon and talk about that. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Little Astronaut is her book that is in bookstores now and coming soon, I think, on audiobook. Special thanks as always to our daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows.

And thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. It's a nice gesture. We appreciate it. More people find the podcast because of it. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Let's say your attachment style is podcast recommendations.

Well, here would be a perfect opportunity to say, you know, we don't have the same taste in podcasts per se. You listen to more sort of hostile podcasts, sort of angry podcasts. And I listen to podcasts that are more about collaboration and creativity and love. And maybe this week, you should try mine. It's called Working It Out. And maybe, maybe we'll have more in common after that. I'll see you next time, everybody.