Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 131. Chris Fleming: He Should Be Way More Popular

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

In Chris Fleming’s recent Peacock stand-up special Hell, he calls out some audience members who are married and shouts, “This show is not for people who have wives. You have a wife?! Go see Mike Birbiglia!” Fleming is fearless about dragging the names of other comedians into his bits: from Bo Burham to Nikki Glaser to Bert Kreischer and more. Chris is a Massachusetts theater kid turned comedian and it manifests in stand-up comedy that is simultaneously avant-garde but also crowd pleasing. Mike and Chris sit down for a truly productive session of working out new material and they break down why Massachusetts is so darn repressed. Plus, they do no-holds-barred impressions of each other in what is one of the most unhinged episodes of Working it Out of all time.Please consider donating to Best Buddies

That's one of my favorite things about your special on Peacock is you have this thing where you go home to visit your mom and you open up to her. You say, I'm depressed. I'm seeing a therapist. And then 15 minutes later, you go upstairs and she goes, are you okay now? Are you feeling better?

That's Massachusetts. Are you feeling better? Yeah. And so my question is, are you feeling better? No. No. No. No. That is the voice of the great Chris Fleming.

Oh, man, I love this episode. You might know Chris from his stand-up, from his videos online. He did an incredible web series called Gale, where he played a New England woman. It is hilarious. He has a new special on Peacock called Hell that is hilarious and very original. We talked about that today. He actually references me in the special, and I didn't know him when he referenced me, which we talked about that today quite a bit. I had a blast in Chicago this last weekend at the Chicago Theater. Thank you so, so, so much for coming out.

Three shows at the Chicago Theater. I jumped in Lake Michigan. I went to a Cubs game. Yeah, it was wonderful. I am going to Los Angeles this week. Those shows are sold out. Then I'm going to upstate New York. I'm going to Troy, New York.

I'm sure someone is going to complain and say, that's not upstate New York. Well, it's Troy, New York. I'm sure someone is going to complain and say, that's not upstate New York. Well, it's upstater than where I am right now. Then I'm going to Rochester. That's upstate, right? Then a bunch of shows in Toronto. We actually added a fourth and final show at the Elgin Theater in Toronto.

There are great seats available. You can find all of that and my fall 2024 tour dates on birdbigs.com. We actually just added a third and final show in Westport, Connecticut at the Westport Country Playhouse, June 4th. And then we also added a second show in San Francisco at the Curran Theater. Beautiful, beautiful theater. And that's on September 27th. We also added a fourth and final show in Washington,

D.C. We may be adding a bunch more shows. To stay up to date, check out burbiggs.com and join the mailing list. This is a great episode with Chris Fleming. We only got to know each other recently. He performed on a couple of my Boston shows at the Wilba this past December. You can hear on the show, we became fast friends. It might have something to do with the fact that we're both Massachusetts-born comics. We talk about that. Chris is kind of a live wire. We have a great conversation. We improvise a lot, but a fascinating person, sincere, vulnerable. He has a lot of wisdom. I think you're going to love this episode. Enjoy my conversation with the great Chris Fleming. Here's my takeaway from watching, like, binging all of your stuff.

You should be way more popular. Thank you. I'm screaming laughing watching your comedy thank you you know are you just going do you ever bang your head against the wall and go how come I'm not more popular this is madness

no I really like the very very slow climb I've come to appreciate it I think I overwhelm easily you enjoy the rock wall yeah i don't want a dino jump yeah yeah yeah i i think um i i did when i was younger absolutely i was hitting my head against a wall when i was younger i was livid. How come I'm not more? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But now I'm like, it's kind of, you know, tortoise in the hare situation. That's interesting. So when you were younger, what was the worst manifestation of that? Like, do you remember like embarrassing conversations that you had? It was just mostly cynicism of seeing people getting on late night and just being just absolutely furious. Wow. Yeah. You know how comics do night and just being absolutely furious. Wow. Yeah. You know how comics do.

Right. Them. Right. And we're both from Boston, which is kind of a famously bitter comedy town. Famously petty, where we have the strangest rules. Very strange. It is harder. But performing in Boston is more stressful. I'm just telling you, performing for family in Boston is more stressful than any TV gig or any industry opportunity

because they hold you to the highest standard. And also the strangest standard. I think this opens out to a lot of creatives listening to this show. And my advice would be don't perform in front of your family. You know what I mean? I'm just like it's not – I think comedy is a little bit like being a stripper or a dancer, however you phrase it. Completely. Which is you're revealing yourself to a group of people.

Yeah. And then it's like, well, you don't want to strip for your family. It's just not really where it's at. You know what I mean? That's really good. This morning my mom, she asked me, she was at the show last night. She said, they know how to, you know,

and she goes, Chris, why didn't they stand up at the end? No. It's so, I mean, they're so supportive, but it's so, you know, it's like, I've seen pictures of you with people standing at the end. Why wouldn't, it's like. That's one of my favorite things about your special on Peacock is you have this thing where you go home to visit your mom and you open up to her. You say, I'm depressed.

I'm seeing a therapist. And then 15 minutes later, you go upstairs and she goes, are you okay now? Are you feeling better? It's Massachusetts. Are you feeling better? It's Massachusetts. Are you feeling better? Yeah. And so my question is, are you feeling better? No.

No. Boston, I'm telling you, performing in Massachusetts, they're lovely. They love, as I'm sure you feel the same way, they love you the hardest, but they don't know how to love you. They just yell places. It's like, I feel like I'm waking up from a coma and that's how the audience treats me. They just like yell my high school.

They yell my college. They yell just like things that I've done in the past. Oh, right. Yes. They just yell the reference. Yeah, for me, it's Shrewsbury, Georgetown, St. John's, whatever the thing is. Like we're sundowning or something and we need to be reminded of where we come from.

You know, no, it's so odd. So you say the thing about depression with your mom and it's like- Anxiety more. Yeah. Anxiety. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought that was such an interesting thing to break open because it's like, interesting thing to break open because it's like, it is so hard to convey when you're experiencing a thing that is not really going away. Oh, and that's the problem with Massachusetts and family stuff. It's, it's, they're very product oriented. Right. It's hard to have

them along for the process of results. They want They want results. They want results. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's good now. Yeah. And that's not really the way it works. No, I've had that recently where I've had some challenges with family and illness and things like that. And people go, you know,

but it's good now, right? Well, actually, no, I'm not great, but better. Even the people that get sick in the family, like, we're good now. We're good. We're good now, right? We don't talk about it. Yeah. We're great.

It's over. Well, it's interesting. Like, you made this amazing joke about Bo Burnham. Oh, come on. Yeah. We're going to talk about this. Cut it out if you want. No, no, no no no no no you made this amazing joke

about bo burnham basically saying like you are the living embodiment of like anxiety and depression but then the depiction of it in like a boy genius lyric or a bo burnham special is like kind of a i would say a more attractive version of it more vetted vetted. A more vetted, refined version of it. Something you could buy in Times Square. Yeah. And when I saw it, I laughed so hard at that. And I love Bo, and I'm sure you like Bo's comedy too. But when I saw that, I laughed so hard. And then you and I did a show in Boston together,

and I was like, you're probably friends with Bo, right? And you were like, no, I've never met him. And I was like, you've never met him? You did that joke about him? I was talking shit from a distance. That's wild. From the sewer system. I'm in the sewers. I'm the clown from it talking shit, throwing pebbles, and then going back subterranean. That's my style, baby. Yeah, I guess so. And you did it with me too, even in your peacock special. I talk about you. Oh yeah, I open with you. Because you get mad that there's people who have wives in the audience you're like i don't know you have a wife go see mike

burbiglia yeah yeah yeah yeah and i and i thought that was a riot hopefully beau thinks that his thing is funny too um yeah yeah yeah yeah did you hear back no i don't think i'm gonna hear back my god yeah it's a loud silence but no i mean no i'm maybe he hasn't seen it he's offline you know he's probably offline no of course he's not offline no one's offline yeah offline is a lie i feel like the most toxic thing you can do is actually take a social media break. It's so look at me. It's so look at me. It's so Scarlett O'Hara on the fainting. It's histrionic.

It's just go offline. Whenever people announce it, you just go, just fucking go. Even when they don't announce it, when they have no more profile picture, it's like, okay. Yeah, the whole thing, people wiping their whole account, and then they return a few months later as like,

I'm going to say a person. I was going to say a person. Say it. You say the people. You start off, you make fun of them. I'm Joseph McCarthy. You're Joseph McCarthy of comedy? I need names.

You make a joke, make up a fake name of a special of Nikki Glaser, you make up a fake name of a special of Burt Kresher. I heard from Nikki, I didn't hear from... Nikki probably liked it. Yeah, Nikki was like, I think she was a little mad. She wrote to me something like, maybe a little anger.

Burt, I don't think... Burt's special was called Ass Man, I think, and Nikki Glaser's was Two in the Pink. Right, these are fake names of specials. Yeah, yeah. And, but you really do. I mean, I'm a fringe, I'm a fringe character. I think that's what helps. I'm not.

Well, you're truly avant-garde. Thank you. No, really. think that's that's what helps i'm not well you're truly avant-garde oh thank you thank you no really like you're not you're not attempting seemingly even though you're hustling it's interesting there's there's definitely like a contradiction hustling out there on the street no you're driving all night you saw me handing out brochures yeah i saw you handing out brochures imagine but like one of the things you hit over and over again as a theme which i love is like that you're like yeah saint vincent boberna like there's a lot of things where you're

like these people are are presenting as awkward outsiders and they're not as freaks and they're not and how did you get obsessed with that idea? Like, how did you arrive at that? It's very, very funny. I'm just curious, like, because it's so recurring, like it must be part of your inner monologue. Oh, completely. Because there's a safe way to, you know, freak pass, you know,

like pass as a freak, you know, there's, pass, you know, like, like passes a free, you know, there's, there's, especially with the internet, there, there are, there are very heavily vetted trends. And I mean, the same Vincent thing was like, you know, talking about, I think she's talking about New York. Right. Right. And saying something about, she was saying like freaks like me. And it's like, these are, these are like incredibly well-adjusted, conventionally gorgeous scene people.

These are not freaks. Like freaks, they're in Albany. That was the bit, right? Right. They're computer science majors in Albany. Right. I think it was in college when I first started really getting appreciation for the freaks. Yeah.

Like people that were just, people that would like pull status on you. Like people that were on the fringe but like had authority, like didn't give up, like truly were pulling crazy, pulling on strange performances, being socially bizarre. And like seeing that, experiencing that and being like, oh, okay. And then seeing people kind of like try it on as a little costume kind of, I think, was irksome for me. Right. It's funny.

Like, I really like, it made me think on whether or not the people who you're bringing up did experience being an outsider. And I would say they probably did. Of course they did. Of course. And that's also part of the bit for me is to why be that. Massachusetts, it's like why be petty? It's funny to me to be that petty to be throwing stones at people like that. And the St. Vincent thing, I think I was young and a little more reckless.

That's funny. I feel a little bad about that one. Because it's cool. I think St. Vincent's awesome. Yeah, I do too, yeah. You know, St. Vincent's, I think St. Vincent's awesome. Yeah. I do too, yeah. You probably know St. Vincent. I have met Annie.

Oh, okay. Apologies. It's like calling Robert De Niro Bob. Yeah. It's actually, I am embarrassed that I just said that, but I did just say that.

Well, you can't be like, I know Saint. I know, yeah, yeah. SV, are you kidding me? Come on. I feel bad. I mean, yeah, I'm sure she's awesome and she can shred on that guitar. I think I was jealous that she got to hang out with David Byrne in 2011.

I get that. Yeah. But you and I are from Boston. We're close together. First of all, I grew up thinking I was an hour and a half away from Boston, but I'm an hour and a half because my parents, if you go the wrong way, you're an hour and a half, two hours. If you go the right way, it's 45 minutes. If you go around Walden Pond twice, you're two hours.

I'm from Stowe. Oh, yeah. Really close. Really close. Yeah, because I was Shrewsbury. Yeah. So I would say that's approximately 20 miles. Maybe even less. Right. Like I remember growing up, you guys had like a par three golf

course. Oh, yeah. Do you know it? We have, I used to work at a golf course. Yeah. Yeah. Wedgwood Pines, but I got fired for sunbathing on one of the greens. Huh? Yeah. It was mob run. Couldn't, I can't imagine this scene. yeah yeah i i started my dad got me he wanted me to have a good work ethic so he got me jobs like kind of under the table starting at like 11 or 12 that was kind of like a smart though oh i mean i'm really grateful for it i think i'd be even more of a wreck if i yeah haven't did you have jobs? Yeah. Like what? I was a busboy in high school. I worked at weddings. I was a bagger at a grocery store,

super stop and shop. So you got strong hands. Yeah. I'm known for my hands. Yeah. I saw those digits on the doorknob getting in here. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, people are worried

when they see my paw prints around the neighborhood. I'm surprised they're in peanut butter. Speaking of your neighborhood, I am surprised that you live in Brooklyn. Why? Because you're a Carrie, you're not a Miranda. In what sense? Say more. You're the leader.

You're not the Miranda, you know? Carrie is all about Manhattan. I'd see you in Manhattan. Whereas Miranda lives in Brooklyn? Yeah. Oh, she does live in Brooklyn. Yeah, it was the biggest upset of, I think, what, season nine? But don't you think I'm so obviously a Brooklyn, like, dad?

Like a Brooklyn loser dad kind of thing? You're not a loser. No, but you know what I mean. You're a storyteller. Oh, my God. What's your, okay, you're burning all these people. What's your biggest burn for me that you wouldn't even say in one of the specials? What would be the meanest thing you'd say?

I think what I would do is I would film myself talking and then slow it down. If I... I wouldn't do this. I'm just thinking off the cuff. If I were to, gun to my head, do an impression of you. Slow down the footage. And maybe hold it a little. I mean, you know, like a...

The rage I'm feeling right now will not be requited by anything that takes place in this conversation. I would, yeah, slow it down to, yeah, 0.2 speed. Is that right? Yeah, something like that. Oh, 0.2 speed. Yeah. 0.2 speed. That's your impression of me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't do an acapella. All right, here's my impression of you yeah yeah yeah i can't do it acapella all right here's my impression of you oh no maybe i wasn't playing it's like i mentioned he's like well then if susan sarandon you know, and then like. You're like, wait, what's the joke? There's no spatial awareness. Yeah, throw.

For just the listeners not on YouTube, that's just, it's just me stalking the table and doing some kind of physical movement. Yeah, and kind of swatting the mics. And you hit your knee pretty hard. I went to the doctor because I have to get a minor shoulder surgery. And I was like, how long is my recovery before I can go back on stage? And he was like, show me what you do on stage. And it's him and a nurse. It's him and a nurse with a clipboard. Show me what you do on stage.

And I'm like, for the listeners who haven't seen Chris's comedy, which is a majority, a vast majority of the listeners. It's mostly leg work that I do also. I would describe you as somewhere between a ballerina and a mime in terms of your physical work on stage. It's wild. And a trickster that you would see in a clearing. A dragour to use the French.

Wow. Très bien. And they were not laughing. I did it for about a minute, these act-outs. For a minute while they were taking notes and the doctor eventually was like, yeah, probably about a week. Chris Fleming

et comédien. Mad week. Chris Fleming, a comedian. Mademoiselle Fleming. You and I, so we just met. It's like we're friends already. Oh, yeah. I feel deeply connected to you. It's weird. And I think it's because we grew friends already. Oh, yeah. I feel deeply connected to you. It's weird. I think it's because we grew up in the same place,

probably 10, 15 years apart. Yeah, we have the same DNA, like the stress in our DNA. You know how certain things manifest because of the environments? Yeah. The puritanical thing. I think we're both sensitive. Well, even you called your special hell. It's like I grew up on people talking about hell all the time.

Fear of God is the most defining characteristic of Massachusetts. We both had Catholic upbringings. And like, what's amazing about hell, I think, and you called your special this, hell. Yeah. Can you talk about why you called it that? I mean, it's a bit. Obviously, there is a single bit that acknowledges hell. Yeah. call it that i mean it's a bit obviously there is a single bit that acknowledges hell yeah uh i thought i thought it would be funny to have kind of a horror element to a stand-up special and that's

how how we got it started but do you think it's based on like loosely based on childhood because like when i was a kid like hell was like a real thing oh i think people were afraid of no no of course of course the i never stopped thinking and obsessively speaking with God all the time. That sounds like I'm conversing with God. I mean, like obsessive OCD kind of like prayers to keep everything okay with my family and stuff. I do that all the time. Do you pray? All the time. All the time. Is it to a Christian God or a religious God? Is it to a Christian God or a religious God? I was raised Catholic.

Yeah. It's to God. You picture white Jesus? I don't. Tell me the truth. Do you picture white Jesus? I don't picture white Jesus. No.

Say it into the microphone and write it on this sheet of paper. Do you want me to draw what I think? Oh don't picture what jesus yeah yeah do you are you a are you a man of faith are you a i i'm not going the i'm not going to pete holmes route just so we know like i'm not i'm not a i'm not an evangelist i'm i'm just he's not an evangelist per se i have to i have to carry some water for pete here oh i love pete no no i'm not i'm just saying i i'm not like um it's it's a fear of things falling apart more than anything right it's i have i have for you for praying though i think i think it's ocd uh which i think the church raises you to be say say 12 Hail Marys and, you know. No, but I've recently had this thing where I'm like,

everything is so atheistic right now that it's a little bit punk rock to be religious. Yeah. Like I'm always interested, like Alex Edelman's very Jewish, you know, Rami's very Muslim, like, and they engage on it. They talk about it on stage and I'm like interested by it. I am not eloquent enough. I'm telling you, it is pure anxiety. As opposed to Carlin, who's like, there is no God and we all know it.

A little man in the sky. You're like, all right. Or Ricky Gervais pissing into the Eucharist for his... Oh my gosh, did he do that? No, but it's something that would... Symbolically. That would be a still image. Symbolically. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, but you do something that would be a still image. Symbolically.

Yeah. But you do have a hint of that. I wouldn't go to bat for Catholicism again. Right. This is just, look, I'm just trying to keep everything okay. Right. That's my level of investment. That was Marc Maron's joke in the 90s, which is, I believe in God, just in case.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So when you pray, what are you praying for? I can't say because that's part of the OCD is that I feel like if I ever say it out loud to someone else, it will fall apart. It has to be like a... But the gist is to keep loved ones. Uh, okay.

And this especially started when there was sickness in the family and like, I just started doing it. You just told me. Oh no. Oh no. Is that a locust? Yeah, that's a locust and an asp. Oh no. Well, the asp was there before. But the locust? Yeah, that's a locust and an asp. Oh, no. Well, the asp was there before.

But the locust. This place is decorated with asps. I could see you in like 15 years getting a snake. I could see you getting a couple tattoos of a snake. I could see myself getting a snake. You could feed it. Let's break down your style. What is this? Okay. And I love it. it i love it but what is it and why this you mean like my pieces i'm wearing

today sure knee brace from going too hard on stage nice new york fell fell to my knees went too hard two ballerinas in the crowd go oh you fucked you fucked up. Oh, wow. So I've been wearing a brace. These are free people, women's pants. This is from Tombolo. Okay. It's like a, you know, it's like a towel kind of thing. Oh, I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you don't have to fully dry off out of the shower.

And then women's wrestling shoes, baby. Oh, that's what those are. Yeah. And this is not a joke for the listeners. He's holding them up on the YouTube. Of course it's not a joke, Mike. No, I know. But like people might be like women's wrestling shoes, it's a bit like.

Why would they think that? Why women's wrestling shoes and not men's wrestling shoes? Well, men's style is very barbaric, brutalist, mostly grays and whites. Oh, okay. I understood. And so I've always been more drawn to the women's wardrobe. Right, like the colors. Yeah. It has kind of a turquoise and an orange, I think.

Sure, yeah. I mean, I'm red, green, colorblind, so I couldn't quite tell you. But I do, I am drawn to it. How did you arrive at your style? Slowly. In Massachusetts, it was rough. Started wearing, you know, piece by piece, and the community was not thrilled about it.

And, you know, got a lot of blowback. And eventually, in L.A., people stopped, you know, in L.A. Right. I mean, people were wearing a hula hoop around town. Cry open, you know, microwave on the head. You could wear a protractor on your penis and no other clothing, and people would be like, I get it. People would be like, excuse me.

Can I get by? Can I get by? Yeah, they don't care. They don't even, it doesn't even register. Someone might steal your protractor. Well, because they're math whizzes. They're hooked on math out there. Tons of math heads.

Math heads. Yeah, there's a lot of math heads. It's true. It's true. It's not a play on words. There's actual math heads. Math heads. Yeah.

But your style, so you're in high school. What are you wearing? Not currently, but yeah, yeah. When you were in high school and you started wearing things that were dipping your toe in your fashion that is now, what were the items? It started with women's jeans. It started with that.

Okay. And then like flares. And then I would slow, even through college, it would be like slowly more flamboyant stuff because it started being like, I would dress on stage more flamboyantly. Okay. Because I was thinking everyone was wearing hoodies and plaid shirts.

Right. And I was like looking more to kind of what's happening in the UK. And they were kind of like Noel Fielding. They were more glam. And I was really into like Mick Jagger and then getting really into like that scene. And I was like, what if I tried to kind of do that, but in like a botched way. And that could be kind of funny. Do you, do you prefer wearing women's clothing to men's clothing? I like wearing, I was even much skinnier, uh, growing up. And so men's clothing, I would look

like I was wearing like my dad, I would feel powerless in these boxy shirts. And I think it was a way to set myself apart and to feel kind of like a little pep in my step. Like it felt dangerous in Massachusetts. It truly, it felt crazy. And I liked that. It made me feel kind of like, ah. Yeah.

Like, cause one-on-one guys would get drunk and be like, man, I wish I could wear that stuff you wear. Oh. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it was great. That's so interesting. Yeah, I loved it. I wish I could wear that stuff you wear. Oh yeah, that's the thesis.

That's so telling. Of a lot of Massachusetts men, oh yeah. Right, there's a lot of latency. A lot of queens. Yeah, there's a lot of repression. Oh, yeah. It's a very repressed state. Oh, it's, of course, yeah.

If they could go back in time and do anything, it would be to stop Elvis from shaking his hips. And from the Beatles singing lascivious songs. Yeah, yeah. So you had a lot of people basically in Massachusetts growing up being like, I was working for that. Yeah, like I was weirdly supported my whole life very much

by my town and everything. That is fascinating. Yeah, yeah. I don't think I would be the same way that I am. I wouldn't have the confidence that I have if I wasn't. Like my town was always rooting for me. I think in one of the specials, you refer to yourself as asexual.

No. No? I make a joke about the Nissan Cube being- Being asexual. I'm sorry. The one asexual. I somehow made you the Nissan Cube. Clearly something's going on.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I see what you're picking up on. What do you describe your sexual references? I don't. You don't? I don't. Do people ask? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I see what you're picking up on. What do you describe your sexual reverence as? I don't. You don't? I don't. Do people ask?

Oh, yeah. And you say, I have no answer? Yeah, I just avoid labels of any kind publicly. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I could draw you what I'm into after the show. I could do some sketches.

Here we go. Do you have any charcoal? We have. How much time do you have? I think we have four or five hours. Do you mind if I squeeze this while I do it? Because it's going to get stressful. But it's interesting because you're avoiding labels

in a moment in time where people are grasping for labels and engaging their labels a lot. Yeah, yeah. So that's sort of a punk rock thing of sorts. Oh, I appreciate that. It's counterculture in a certain way. I think it's, for me, it seems personally minimizing. And I think life is a lot more exciting if I, I even have a hard time being like, I have anxiety.

I do have anxiety, but I have a hard time almost identifying as anything because I feel like it can be kind of like a, oh, check that off, you know, don't have to. Right. It flattens it in a certain way too. Yeah. By just putting a label on it.

Exactly. As opposed to how you actually feel, which is very complex. And changes all the time and has so much to do with different chemistries. Yes. Like, what am I in a vacuum? I don't know. If I'm in the woods by myself, what am I? I couldn't like. him. I don't know if I'm in the woods by myself. Right. What am I? I couldn't like.

So does anyone ever, is anyone ever offended by you resisting that as a question? No. I mean, my audience is all my audience. I think that your audience can, knows more about you sometimes than you know about yourself. Agreed. They gave me a fidget cube last night. I get it. And I'm like, say no more. Okay. And sure enough, Iget cube last night. I get it. And I'm like, Say no more. Okay. And sure enough, I was using that thing in that green room.

Slow round. What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you? Oh, my flightiness is their least favorite. I'm a real flight risk. That's interesting. Maybe you won't be a part two. I'm a runner. Yeah, you may never hear from me again.

No, no. Can you remember a time where you fled and it drove people nuts? I did as a child. It was like a monsoon in Massachusetts and my mom, I was like six and she was like, okay, we're going to run to the car. Three, on two, I took off by myself into the storm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Bad instinct. That's an interesting thing to talk about on stage have you ever talked about that on stage no but I

it's a good story I find myself in that kind of a situation quite a bit running into a more dangerous situation don't you need more like

natural disasters to occur to have that happen quite a bit that specifically yeah yeah you'd be surprised Mike how many stampedes I encounter stampedes just to occur? Do you have that happen quite a bit? That specifically, yeah.

You'd be surprised, Mike, how many stampedes I encounter. Stampedes. Wildebeests. Running of the bulls. Yeah, yeah. I go every year. Then I run away. Yeah, yeah.

What do they call it when the earth separates and the crust? Earthquake, yeah, yeah. Which just happened. Yeah, it just happened. We don't want to date this. This is actually, so you just dodged the question what's people's favorite thing about you. They don't have a favorite thing about yeah, yeah. Which just happened. Yeah, it just happened. We don't want to date this. So you just dodged the question, what's people's favorite thing about you?

They don't have a favorite thing about me, Mike. All right, next question. No, my height. I don't know. Favorite thing about me. My height. Biggest dodge of all time. How tall are you?

Nurses are always small, so they're always jumping up. I'm anywhere between 6'1 and 6'3 I've never heard anyone dodge questions like this before you're not even answering how tall are you I'm Nixon, oh yeah, now I'm an enigma you are the Nixon of comedy this circles back to something

that has to do with your comedy which is like, what are you serious about you're very silly on stage you're kind of the epitome of silly. I can get real silly. Do you have some strong takes? What am I serious about? What's a thing that it's really hard for you to even laugh about?

Oh, people with cognitive. I worked with people with cognitive disabilities quite a bit. And so that's one of my real sweet spots of like caring a lot about that community and stuff and feeling very like one of my best friends has downs because we work together. I worked with him for, it was one of my first jobs in LA. And so when I see stuff like that,

I fly off the fucking handle, man. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. Did your life go how you expected it to go to this point? No, I thought I was going to be very successful at a young age. I spit coffee all over your face. The concept of me being... And then I said, get out of my studio. A household name as a child.

Yeah, no, I was very, very sure I was going to be very successful, very young. That's interesting. Is it like that thing that the modern pop psych term, main character syndrome? I think that's a derogatory way to put it, yeah. I'm trying to be derogatory. No, no, I get that. Yeah,ogatory way to put it yeah i'm trying to be direct no no i get

that yeah yeah i i would say i would say it's that and also being in theater and having the whole town be like you're the next oh because you were very good i was i excelled in the in the arts as i was very good and better than i am now probably on stage. And in theater, oh, I was silly up there. Oh yeah. What kind of stuff? Do you remember a thing? Oh yeah. Like an event?

Do you remember a single event or a sketch or anything like that? I was incredibly shy and I was in a silent play. I didn't, I was so shy I wouldn't talk to people, but then I was in a silent play. Oh, you were in Chaplin's The Kid. You were the kid. Yeah.

Yeah, I remember you. I thought you were very good. Thank you. I appreciate that. People don't appreciate that work today. Did you like when I got stuck in the bucket? Yeah, that's my favorite part. The play was Peter Rabbit, and I was Farber McGregor.

And it was supposed to be silent, but I just started riffing. This was preschool. Started counting tomatoes. Started talking about that pesky rabbit. Love it. And I remember that feeling of like, oh, this is opening. Go there, Fleming. Go there.

Go, go. Keep going. Keep going. More of this, Fleming. More of this. In my legs playing parts. Like I played a drunk person in a play in sixth grade. And I was just a background actor.

But I was getting laughed with what I was doing with my legs. legs just took over and so it all it all started from there and that's really funny because i liked it i had that in high school i played costard the clown and shakespeare's love livers lost and you were doing shakespeare in high school oh yeah yeah yeah of course i would look at me yeah and well shrewsbury that's a that's a thatbury, that's Tony to be doing Shakespeare. For sure. And I remember I was getting laughs. And it's funny because I literally didn't think of this until just now when we're talking about it.

I was getting laughs because I leaned into the character across the decline just being drunk. And he wasn't really drunk. Textually, he's not drunk. You added that. But he was getting big laughs. Textually, he's not drunk. You added that. But he was getting big laughs, and so he was just leaning into it. And then, of course, now people often think I am drunk

when I'm not drunk. So there is a continuity to my Costa de Clown Mike Birbiglia persona. That's why I was breathalyzing you at the Wilbur. Oh my God. So we both got laughs playing drunk. Yeah, that's right. Oh, that makes a lot of sense.

Because it's a major Massachusetts affliction. What's a song that makes you cry? Sarah by Stevie Nicks. Yeah, that's a beautiful one. Silver Springs has been hit. I mean, any Stevie has been hitting me hard. You'll never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you. Stevie Nicks makes me cry too.

What is it about Stevie Nicks that makes both of us cry? I think she's just so tapped into the source. How'd she get like that? It's like when babies say things like, I've always been here, you know? Right, I've always been here, you know? Right. I've always been here. Landslide is definitely the saddest song they're going to play in a Target. That's a joke. Yeah.

You are one of these people. We've had a handful of these on before. Jo Firestone's like this. Oh, I just met Jo for the first time the other night. She's great. She's so funny. It's just like you could bottle a Jo Firestone bottle, Chris Fleming, any five minutes

that you speak. I think you could just trim out the fat of it and it's two minutes of comedy gold. You're so you so emanate funny thank you millennia's like that when i first went on tour with millennia like 20 years ago like i was just like that's i would always just be like oh write that down did you write that down and i feel like you i'm like just write all this down like this is so funny i'm very bad at taking

notes is that true? Yeah. Yeah. I have no records. I do a notes app. Where do you, so the joke I said, where you come home and you tell your mom how depressed you are, and then she goes, are you okay now? Mm-hmm.

Did you write that down in the moment? No. No, no, no. Like, you wrote it down, like, in a free write or, like, an improvisation on stage? I never wrote it, that one. That's just a memory. The quote is, are you feeling better? I just remember that.

Did you improvise it on stage and then eventually you wrote it down? I don't think I ever had. I don't think I have that in writing. Because I try not to write a lot of the stuff word for word. There are some things I do word for word, of course. But some things it's like that was such a core memory. You're telling me you never wrote down that as a joke in longhand? No.

Do you have a set list? I do have a set list, yeah. Okay, so it's all bullet points, and then you remember just from repetition how you like to say it. Because I'm a bad act. Oh, don't cut that. I'm bad at memorizing lines. And if I see something in print and I memorize it, I stumble over it.

And I have a clumsy tongue because I have a tongue tie thing. And I was supposed to do tongue exercises after I got in. I haven't done the tongue exercises. Oh, yeah, I'm supposed to stay on you about that. I have a lazy tongue and I stumble over words if I, like if you hear me deliver lines and something, it's like, oh shit, Chris. Oh yeah, I noticed that. I need to feel like I'm saying it off the cuff.

Even if it's fully canned, I need to believe that it's kind of fresh. Wow. And by the way, that's what you have in common with Marin. Marin doesn't write jokes down. Really? He just writes set list. Yeah. Set list,

and then he just goes. And he actually has a real bias against people who, like me, write longhand. Do you have a bias against longhanders?

No. Longhanders. That sounds like a Lord of the Rings type thing. The longhanders from the South. south no it's uh i will here's what i will do for some stories i will type up a story and then i will misremember it and that's how what it becomes yeah i think that's a it's such a great lesson for just writers

comedy writers in general misremembering is and i'm not the first to say it misremembering is, and I'm not the first to say it, misremembering is one of the biggest tools you can have as a writer. Because it feels fresher when you're, yeah. Because I think, this is the reason why it's a quote, and the reason why it's true for me is like, your brain tends to, for lack of a better word, create a narrative of the past that is more interesting than what actually happened. Of course.

So misremembering is your friend. Yeah. It's like a PR firm that you hire. Well, it's the reason why people are drawn to stories. It's the reason why people are drawn to the Bible. Yeah. Is they read things that are in narrative. Yeah.

And they go, oh, right. That's like my life in this way. But meanwhile, it's like, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but it's the sleight of hand of it. Sometimes I think people do it nowadays. It's like if you like something, the way that you say that you like it, it's like, oh, that's so me, even though it's so not.

It's like, no, you just mean you like that. That's a great observation. Write that down. Put it in the bullet points. I know you don't longhand. These longhanders come right here with their jokes. And they're riding them longhand. I'm doing bullet points.

You know what I do to force myself? I have a big, thick, it's called a paint marker. And I have big drawing like easel and that's where I do my sets I don't believe it I don't believe this bullshit what's next what if I said that to everything

you said in the whole interview nah I don't buy it what's next what's with these outfits is that Apple News? There's a few jokes I'm working on that if you have any ideas on, let me know. Great. But they're not there yet.

They're just like in the notebook. And one of them has to do with, I feel like we're all trying to figure out like kind of like, what does it all mean? And I think in your 20s, you're like, it means this. In your 30s, you're like, it means that. In your 30s, you're like, it means that. In your 40s, you're like, it means nothing. You know what I mean? And then like, unless, and this harkens back to our conversation about religion,

unless you believe in an afterlife. And you're like, no, no, it's about that. But I've never gotten on board for afterlife. I think afterlife is kind of like a storytelling cop-out. Real quick, let's go back. What if you go 40s, nothing, and then, you know, laugh. And then in your 50s, succulents. And then, you know, you keep going.

Succulents? Yeah, you throw some, like some, and then go back to the Jews. Right, right, a nonsensical one. Yeah, yeah, I like that, yeah. Something. Right, and also maybe it's like 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and then you go into death. 90s and today.

90s and today, yeah, yeah. But then it's like afterlife to me, like I don't buy into it. Like, it's a cop-out. It's like at the end of a 500-page novel, it's like to be continued. It's like, no, no, no. I do not have time. I'm about to die.

You know? And to me, afterlife is like the after party, which is to say, I'm not going. No, no. Who's going to that? Who's going? I barely went to the party. People on cocaine. People on cocaine. People on cocaine.

That's a great tag. It's like, after party, to me, it's like... It's three guys on cocaine. It's three guys on cocaine, and it's like, you know how they say if you get kidnapped, don't go to the second location? To me, the after party is the second location. Do not go.

So then I have that, and then I go i go like i have a thing where i go you know but life is like a in some ways you can look at life like it's a book or it's a movie you know sometimes you know your best friend dies and it's devastating and then you just go well i guess he wasn't the protagonist and so that's like this like chunk yeah probably like a 90 second chunk that i'm i'm literally i just put on stage this week for the first time it was it was like okay yeah but i'm like curious if you have any thoughts on that and as a general idea and like where that might go yeah the when you're saying where you're saying the best friend dies, and that's not the protagonist. I guess he's not the protagonist.

Do you say anything after that? No, currently no. How do they react to that? That actually does well. I guess he's not the protagonist. He's actually, in some ways, the biggest laugh leader in the bunch right now. What's funny is I think the funniest thing is the afterlife after party i think that i'm i would be drawn to that too yeah to kind of uh fill that scene out a little

bit yeah to kind of talk about the afterlife or heaven or whatever you call it as this second location it's very funny um like uh it's for DJs and who would be at the after party yeah people hanging out till 6am yeah because the truth is my favorite night is like

in bed with my wife at like 7pm watching a movie drifting off at 8.30 in your bunk bed in my race car bed at like 7 p.m. Absolutely. Watching a movie drifting off at 8.30. In your bunk bed. Yes, in my race car bed. Yeah, I think filling out the afterlife like that in a really boring, drab way to describe heaven is, and this is the same thing I think it would be funny about,

like an alien invasion. What if they were just boring? What if we were just like, oh God, they just want to talk about wedding crashers all the time. Right. What if there's a tedium to this thing that we're all you know that was actually one of my first jokes when i started out 25 years ago is what you know they always say heaven's a better place what if it's not a better place what if it's a wendy's in ohio what if it's just a similar place and you show up you you're like, this is heaven. And someone's like, have you tried the Frosty? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's terrifying. Yeah. It's funny. I could throw that back in.

That's never on a special. That's your line. Wendy's in Ohio. Wendy's in Ohio. What if it's a similar place? What if it's a Wendy's in Ohio? Well, I think a Wendy's though. You're going to hold a candle. You're going to carry water for Wendy's. Wendy's to me, something about the pigtails, something about the red hair, there's something a little farm to, it's the most farm to table in my twisted mind of all the. You've lost it.

You lost your edge. Everything I loved about you is gone. You know why? Because my sister used to eat at Wendy's and I would eat at McDonald's and Katie is much classier than me. I think that was the PR that I needed in my eyes. I love

the afterlife after party. And I just have to figure out how to tie it into, and this is the thing I'm trying to figure out right now, is like a lot of thematically my hour right now is about teaching my daughter, because my daughter's eight and I have to teach her, I'm turning nine, I have to teach her about everything,

the world and existence. And is there an afterlife? Is there a God? Is there this? Is there that? Or at least, you know, show some kind of direction. Yeah. And in my, you know, I was raised so Catholic

to the point where like you, it's like, I thought God was following me around all the time being like, what are you up to? Your grandparents are watching you. Oh yeah. It's like, oh, you're hiding porn in the porn in the forest well i'm gonna make sure you don't have a girlfriend till you're 20 and it's like and that prophecy came true but then like i'm also like there's a part of me that's also like like i shouldn't go the other way i shouldn't be like

there's no god there's absolutely no good that seems crazy to me showing a ricky gervais special right well because then it becomes like, well, grandma's dead, and we have no further information at this time. No, no, exactly. Well, I'm sure, right. That was a joke I did last week for the first time. I kind of improvised that.

I jotted it down, and then I tried it. And actually, it connected really well with the audience. So I think there is something there. And that's even, and you could even walk away while you're saying that. No further information. I've walked backstage. Yeah, I walked into the wing. Walked behind the curtain.

No further information. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, talking about guys in athletic shorts in the after party, the afterlife. Just calves out at 6 a.m. That's funny. Everyone kind of hanging out I've never really been to an after hours thing I'm just trying to imagine what it would be

that's what it is it's kind of like a bleak party bus yeah yeah that's mostly what it is don't tell them what it actually is yeah keep me insulated do you have any jokes you're working on that are like half-baked ideas yeah

I just started one last night about god Do you have any jokes you're working on that are like half-baked ideas? Yeah. What do you got? I just started one last night about, God, and I feel like it's a little hacky because I have a male doctor for the first time. And my whole life I was obviously at female doctors. Okay. I mean, if you did a vibe check. Right. Yeah, if you really tuned in and the main

difference is how they enter the space and the the female doctor you know it'll be the the gentlest wrapping on the chamber door and then a rosemary sprig under the under the door a baby deer comes licks you to the window licks you are you ready ready? A male doctor, it's not knock, it's knock, knock, and then shoulder in. When you hear the first knock, you have zero seconds before they enter the space. And then there's a, you have zero seconds before a guy who smells weird is screaming your full Christian name.

Oh my God. And then I think the end was something like, even the big bad wolf does a little free verse before blowing the house down. Oh my God. And I think the end was something like, even the big bad wolf does a little free verse before blowing the house down. Oh my God. Does a little free verse before blowing the house down. How do you not write these long hand? Like you're just remembering that specific group of words?

No, I think with my paint marker. Okay, you did jot that down. Yes, yes, yes. I wrote baby deer or fawn. I wrote fawn. Well, I love that. I think like no notes. I mean, it's like so funny.

Honestly, it's just more like what were you there for? Were there any red flags? What was the diagnosis kind of thing? And what was the diagnosis kind of thing and and what was this with male what was the male doctor's reaction because it's kind of like you've set up this character of the male doctor i was there for this oh for your for your knee yeah so it's like like we get the character of the male doctor we're on board we think he's funny so it's like what happens when you show me your knee what happens you know what's

his diagnosis etc because it's like i feel like i always think of jokes as like as like you're flying an audience on a rocket ship to another planet and the joke is kind of the planet and once you're there on the other planet you can be like show them the vegetation show them the craters you know like that's what's interesting. And they're already on the planet. The hard part was getting there. And I feel like you're in the doctor's office, you have this kind of male doctor, female doctor, you have this male doctor character. And it's like, well, what else? If this, what else? And it's just like, I mean, I think the sky's the limit with that joke. I mean, that's a riot.

Hell yeah. So good. Thanks, man. So talk about like, just talk about our interaction. I would literally just improvise out what happened. Great. What was it, you know, what were his suggestions, et cetera. And like, honestly, like I'm, because were you in Massachusetts visiting your? This was LA

this was Los Angeles yeah because I was going to say like once you establish like the mom character let's say in your life

like like you can call your mom afterwards and what did she say and all these things where we're like I'm so on board for

these people in your lives who you know for example your mom is like but you're fine now right why didn't they stand up oh right the audience why didn't they stand up like what like

once you establish like what your mom's like what your doctor's like etc I feel like you can just ping pong around with a lot of those interactions it's kind of like in a play where it's like and now the scene where these three characters are on stage, what's going to happen? We all know a few things about each character. Oh, I love that.

Like a farce. It's a farce. Yeah, that's beautiful. Your life is a farce. Chris, we finished with working at For Cause. Is there a nonprofit you like to support? Best Buddies. It's people, you know, it's high schools a lot.

And like, it's kind of like working with people with cognitive impairments, you know, people with autism, stuff like that. And it's a beautiful organization. And I love it. That's fantastic. We'll contribute to Best Buddies. We will...

You told me that one week you contribute and one week you take away from the nonprofits. What I do... Funnel money. Some people call it a scam. We've never been prosecuted. We show up at the nonprofit, whatever their broken

brick and mortar is and we say hey we knock at the door we go we're part of a religion um we're super cool though work we call it we say we're the worky outies and we worky outy with non-profits and we just try to do right by you. Whatever you need help with, the work the Audis are here. And then— Sounds like an Audi belly button kind of a program. Yeah, it's a little bit of a reference to the belly button. You give 20% to the Audi community. And so then once they let us in, that's really where the Trojan horse goes down.

It opens up, and then all of our staff comes in and we say, everybody, take your money out right now. Joe empties the drawer. Yeah, they empty the drawer and then we say, look, we're only going to take 25%. That's what we feel like we're entitled to. And then we leave. We're going to link to them in the show notes.

We're going to encourage people to contribute as well. Chris Blum, this is a joy. I'm already anticipating episode number two. You're fantastic. I think people should watch everything you do. Thank you, Mike. You're the best. I really appreciate you.

Thank you. Working it out, because it's not done. We're working it out, because there's no hope. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can watch Chris Fleming's special Hell. That's right. It's called Hell on Peacock. You can also, while you're on Peacock, you can watch Good One,

a show about jokes where they followed me around last year. I was developing my new hour that I'm on tour with. You can follow Chris Fleming on Instagram at ChrisFlemingFleming. You can catch Chris Fleming on Instagram at ChrisFlemingFleming. You can catch him live. He's performing in Los Angeles in May, in Toronto, in June, in a bunch of other cities. You can find all that at ChrisFlemingFleming.com.

Check out for Biggs.com to sign up for the mailing list. You can watch the full video of this episode on YouTube. Perfect YouTube episode, by the way, because you can see his fantastic outfit he's wearing, and we talk about fashion. Perfect one to watch. While you're there, you can subscribe

so you can watch more and more videos that we're posting every day. Our producers of Working It Out Are Myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia, as well as Mabel Lewis. Our associate producers, Gary Simons. Sound mix by Shubh Serra and supervising engineer Kate Belinsky.

Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Bleachers has a great new album. Jack worked on Taylor Swift's new album, which we love also. Special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Special thanks, as always, to my daughter, Una, who built the original Radio Fort made of pillows.

And, of course, to you, the listeners. If you enjoyed the show, rate it and review it on Apple Podcasts. We appreciate it so much. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. Maybe you made some enemies naming names in your comedy special and they call you up and they're angry.

Why'd you say that about me? This is a very relatable example. Maybe instead of arguing with them, you could recommend a podcast. Hey, enough about all a podcast. Hey, enough about all this stuff. We'll figure it out. In the meantime, maybe we should sit together and listen to a podcast where creatives work out unfinished ideas in real time. It's called Mike Birbiglia's Working Out. See you next time, everybody.