Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 137. Neal Brennan Returns: How to Be 3% Funnier

Episode Date: July 15, 2024

This week Neal Brennan returns to Working It Out in celebration of his new Netflix special, “Crazy Good.” Neal and Mike go deep on what to do when friendship isn’t reciprocated, what all comics have in common with Seinfeld, and the irrelevance of the question “Is Kevin Hart humble?” All that, plus the listener email Mike received in response to his joke about joining a cult.Please consider donating to Amazon Watch

Love your special. Love your special. No, no, you don't go, mm-hmm. You go, thank you. Oh, well, thank you. I'm going to have to coach you through a lot of this stuff. Love your special. That is the voice of the great Neil Brennan.

We are thrilled to have Neil back on the podcast. We had him back in 2021, but this is the first time he was in the studio, which means in addition to listening to it here, you could watch it on YouTube. Neil is one of my favorite comedy people. In addition to being a stand-up comedian, he is a co-creator and co-writer

of the classic Chappelle show, Half Baked, which we talk about on the show today. He has a new Netflix special called Crazy Good. It is an excellent comedy special. I actually could not recommend it more highly. I love talking to Neil. Thanks to everyone who's coming out to my shows on the Please Stop the Ride tour at the end of this month. I will be at the wonderful Bay Street Theater.

I think it's pretty much sold out, but go on berbiggs.com. I think there's one more show with a few tickets remaining. I continue on to Red Bank, New Jersey in September at the Count Basie Theater for the Arts, September 13 and 14. I love that theater. It is a gorgeous theater. I have played it many times. I actually popped in on one of Mulaney's shows one time there, and it's just like, it's a classic historic theater.

Then I will be in Seattle and Portland. We just had a third and final show in Portland, Oregon. I'll be in San Francisco. Limited tickets left for September 27th. And then Oakland at the Fox for the first time. Philadelphia at the Music Hall for the first time. Minneapolis, Madison, Milwaukee, Champaign, Illinois, Indianapolis, Ann Arbor, Detroit at the Fillmore, which I love. I'll be in Dayton, which is a town I love. My sister Gina went to college there. I'll be in Pittsburgh at the Biome.

I'll be in Louisville, Nashville at the Ryman, which is just, I was there with the old man in the pool. And man, one of the prettiest theaters in the whole darn world. I'll be in Knoxville at the Tennessee Theater for the first time. I'll be in Asheville, Charleston, South Carolina, rounding out the year.

And then we're going to add some cities in early 2025. Be the first to know about those shows by signing up for the mailing list. I love this conversation with Neil Brandon today. We talk about how his comedy has become so closely tied to honesty and mental health and depression and how this new special is less about that and sort of what the response has been.

It's kind of a fascinating conversation about what our audience's expectations versus what you're bringing. He, of course, did two specials, Three Mics, as well as Blocks, which is also a podcast where he talks a lot about mental health. And in this special, it's just jokes, just hilarious, hilarious jokes. And we just talk about the difference between those two things and how he's become happy. He's become a happy person. We also talk about the real story

of how Half-Baked, the movie, came to be, which he co-wrote. We talk about audience feedback. I just think this is one of my favorites in a while. Enjoy my conversation with the great Neil Brennan. You start by saying, if you're here because you're depressed and you want to hear depression stuff, I'm happy now. Which I like, because it has that kind of

let's pick it up where we left off kind of thing. And it acknowledges to the audience like a real thing. Your other specials were a lot about depression. Yeah. Blocks and three mics. Yes. And like how did you arrive at that, telling people that? And also how did you get happy?

The first one is a very simple answer. First of all, good to see you. Guy smothers you with a compliment, so then you look like the asshole. I did a show in DC at the Kennedy Center. Yeah. Somebody DMs me afterward, a guy, and said, I spent 150 bucks on those tickets got front row it's my

birthday i kept waiting for you to show up oh gosh which because i because i never mentioned depression wow so then i put that in because i was like, oh, they want Morrissey to be sad. Whatever, not like I'm – but you know what I mean? I have like – part of my brand is dealing with mental health stuff. So I said it and I will say that it made the show better and clearer because you weren't waiting for it after that. But I put it in when the guy directly said that. Yeah, sometimes feedback is helpful. Yeah, it's not even – he didn't say put a disclaimer on at the beginning.

The thing with any note or whatever is just like tell me where it hurts and I'll tell you and I'll try to think of a solution for the pain. I won't go, don't web MD it. And then tell me how to fix the show, which he didn't. He just said like, I was disappointed that I, the new, I didn't, the you I've come to expect wasn't there. It's so funny because you called me when that Kennedy Center show happened and you were like, hey, I have this thing. I don't quite know what to do about it. Yeah, I was going to say to him, we talked. People are sort of waiting for me to be depressed

and like I'm not depressed. Yeah. But like, how did you arrive at being happy? I mean, you've talked a lot about different, the magnets treatment and talk therapy and all kinds of different things. Ayahuasca, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. DMT, Ayahuasca and MDMA get mt the mt ayahuasca and mdma get the first three special thanks oh my god because they did it they did the work what what is happening when you use that stuff because i haven't tried it it's like a longer it's it's sort of boring but uh the in my case it got me off antidepressants and took me from atheism to a belief in a central creation force wow so pretty pretty big for 300 bucks and uh and so that's what it did to that's what i was aware of but then you sold that to someone else for 300 right yeah yeah um so i it it was what i flipped it i watered it down flipped it um you sold for 800 yeah yeah that person sold it for 11 and i have an album coming out. You are a perpetually funny person.

You got out of your car outside just now, and you go, you made a joke about that. I'm wearing a giant backpack because I'm going to the airport. Yeah, and you made a joke. You go, it was either be completely embarrassed or wear this backpack. No, it was either have dignity or put on a backpack. And I chose backpack. You are a perpetual joke machine. Like, even just knowing you, talking to you on the phone with some regularity.

Here's what I'll say that's good about that. Because there's a lot of things that are bad about that. There's none that I'm aware of. Go ahead. Well, that your brain doesn't stop. Like that your brain just creates unsigned other things all the time. I don't think that I'm escaping from reality.

I don't think I'm one of these comics that like, I'm not a pushy, sweaty comic where I'm like just constantly doing bits and like, hey, can I go over this thing with you? Like, well, if anything, it's the opposite. People are like, okay, with the earnestness. I did Chelsea Handler's podcast yesterday and she was like, all right, with the gravity.

Earnest, found God, got rid of yeah overcame my depression stuff yeah enough with the heartwarming i i could see her saying that i mean yeah she's doing her version of she's doing her thing yeah but like you're a fountain of jokes but what's good is you're happy and you're still a fountain of jokes, which disproves the theory you have to be depressed to be funny, right? Disproved, yeah. Or disproves the theory. Yeah, it disproves the theory.

Yeah, I never thought that was a real thing. I never, the first time I did ayahuasca with my friend Bajan, he goes, are we gonna be able to be capitalists after this? Sure, yeah. And you worry that you'll be broken irrevocably. There's a book called The Shallows about the internet. And my takeaway was the line, you are what you do repeatedly.

So if you're checking Instagram, you'll get in the Instagram, like the algorithm, you become the algorithm, you'll get in the Instagram, like the algorithm, you become the algorithm, et cetera. If you spent 30 years writing jokes, it's like passive. It's like passively going to do it. And you don't have to, I don't have to be like, okay, it's just going to do it in the background. It's like having a background app open all the time that I'm not mad at. Then I just decide whether to say the joke or not. Right.

You're deciding whether to say the joke. Yeah, I always find that people are confused by me socially because I'm not saying jokes all the time. Yeah. And sometimes people ask me about that point blank and I'm like, I have to be like, you don't understand, like if I said the jokes

that I say on stage in life, it wouldn't land. Like it would just sit there. It's a, I think Dave said, it's a language, comedy is a language

that he speaks fluently. And it is like, it's not really funny side note. there was a the version what you're saying somebody was on a date at the comedy store with a woman and me and fahim anwar and ian edwards were talking to the guy who was on the date with the woman. And then afterward, Ian or Fahim or both of them goes, she was working out bits. The girl was doing bits with us.

We know, I know what a bit sounds like. Yeah. It's not connective. It's not communicative. It's like its own thing. Yeah. It's like reading a quote from Voltaire in mid-conversation. It's like, what are you doing?

What are you doing? Yeah. So that's why, whatever, I'll do a bit if it's like the, you know, we know when to like, all right, this could use a bit. Yeah. This social interaction could stand a little bit, just a little something. I'll give them a little pixie dust. It's interesting, like, you interviewed Seinfeld today for your podcast, Blocks, which I love.

I mean, talk about, I listen to this day. Interviewed Seinfeld and then had lunch with Ari Melber. If that's not Passover, I don't know what is. Guys, where are my Jews at? You doing crowd work on a podcast? In the camera. Where are my Jews at? Raise your hand. Yes, I

had, I, yeah, no, I've never seen about that. We'd tell me and Jerry talk for 90 minutes. It'll be out maybe by the time this comes. Yeah will uh but just maybe we say four funny things yeah yeah because we're just not doing that we're not speaking in joke we're just it's like we're just not doing that then so he said this thing that you repeated a moment ago which so I opened up with the backpack bit, and then I said, just so everybody knows what happened, did the backpack bit,

crushed. Then I said... Moments ago, when you got out of your car. I didn't want to podcast flex and go like... But I wanted to tell you what he said. Anyway, Jerry and I were talking, and I said, my question for him is like what's the downside I said what's your negative inner monologue sound like

when you're on stage yeah and he said why are you doing this you're you shouldn't be up here you're not a comedian you you're a writer. Yeah. To which I said, is that your inner monologue or mine? Yes. And he said, it's mine. And I said, does your inner monologue specifically mention writing for Dave Chappelle? So, I don't know why we're mentioning that other than the... Well, the reason I brought up is Seinfeld famously said that specific thing.

Comedians aren't more depressed than other professions are depressed. He's like, if you break apart people who work for USPS or people... And Mulaney had a great trip. People are doctors, et cetera. Tons of people are... So many people are depressed and aren't funny at all. Exactly. At least we're doing something.

We're contributing to society with some of our depression. Your Mulaney joke in your special is so funny because you basically say many, many brilliant people in history are psychopaths or drug addicts. Yes.

And you go through a whole ton of people. And then you get to Mulaney, and you go, he told me to tell you he's a drug addict. John Mulaney told me to remind you he's a drug addict, which has actually happened. Literally? Literally. You're not just referencing the special?

No, no, no, no. I was telling Mulaney the bit I was doing. Yeah. And he goes, you mentioned me? And I go, I could. And he goes, yeah, go ahead. And then it crushed and I sent it to him. I don't even really know why it crushes so hard.

Yeah. You name check a bunch of people like in your special, Ellen, Mulaney, Chappelle. Rogan. Rogan you rogan rogan you check with kevin hart you check with them yep all of them all yeah wow uh yeah sent well dave i was calling the day of the show because i was trying to uh figure out what ended up being what do the clowns think. I was trying to figure out a way to say like why are people looking to you

why are people looking to the guy who played Rick James for transgender advice? How to say that. Right. I kept missing them and then I just I said what do the clowns think once at my show in Santa Monica didn't work.

Yeah. I was like, I feel like that's funny. And I just did it on the special and it worked. Right. The basic, the basic premise of the joke, if people haven't seen it. People should watch the special, but go ahead. The basic premise is, you know,

that comedians are now leaders. Like comedians are now. We've become thought leaders. Yes. Because, because corporate leaders failed, political leaders failed, and media leaders failed. They just, they're all in it for the money. So then we become, we just, because the systems failed,

like, all right, well, step up, comedians. Right. So I'm saying how stupid that is. Like, why would you have a serious issue, like transgender stuff and go, well, what do the clowns think? Right, what do the clowns think? Has anyone asked the clowns

where they stand? I did a joke about Ellen. The version I didn't do was like, is Ellen nice? Like, don't worry, you're never gonna meet her. Yes, that's so funny.

Like, just keep people where they are. Wait, you have a Kyrie Irving reference. Yeah, I have Kyrie Irving and a Lance Armstrong. Did you talk to Kyrie Irving? I didn't talk to him. I didn't speak to any of the athletes. Yeah.

So I, it's just like, is so-and-so a good dad? Before I answer this, are you his son? That's very funny. Then why do you care? Yeah, it's not relevant. I need everybody. It's the thing of like the everything marriage, like where your wife has to be your best friend

and your confidant and your business partner. Right. And you guys jog together and you start a, you do hot yoga and every, and it's like, it's too much pressure for one person. Yeah. And it's similar.

I feel similarly with people in culture where it's like is kevin hart humble what what what where what why would you think why would you want that yeah that's a joke from this but it's one of my favorite jokes from the special which is like is kevin hart humble yeah it's It's like look you're a handyman you're not humble. Right. Is that five foot three billionaire humble?

What do you think? How humble do you think he is on a scale from Napoleon to Tom Cruise? Where do you think little Kev fits in? And then that's the other thing about one night

a woman was like why you got to call him little Kev? And it's like because I've known him for 20 years. And his first name and headshot was Lil Kev the Bastard. He used to go by Lil Kev the Bastard.

That was his stage name. That's correct. It's one of the funniest. Look it up. It's one of the funniest factoids in comedy. Lil Kev. Lil Kev the Bastard. Yes, to answer your question, woman who thinks I'm disrespecting him,

is I'm calling him by the name he told me to call him by. Lil Kev. Lil Kev. Lil Kev the Bastard. Yes, to answer your question, woman who thinks I'm disrespecting him, is I'm calling him by the name he told me to call him by. Lil Kev. Lil Kev. Lil Kev the Bastard. Keith Robinson, I think, still calls him that. Yeah, absolutely. do you engage with your you mean you were saying you got a dm from that person being like where were you how come you didn't show up do you have that you must have that with your fans to some degree because you're so open about your depression people must do people come up to you

and talk talk to you about their issues yeah if somebody there's certain now i have a girlfriend like i have significantly less interest in social media meaning like if i'm not promoting a tour and i'm not trying if i'm not waiting for women to dm me it's useless yeah now having said that i got a dm yesterday about like a woman said that her son had committed suicide and she watched three mics and after that she's like i wish i could have it made me understand what he was going through oh gosh yeah just like i get choked up talking about. Something like that I respond to. Yeah.

But like, yo, what's up? I don't have any. Right. Stuff like that I will. That's meaningful and I think it would be inhumane not to respond. Do you feel like... Beyond horrible branding. Go ahead.

Go ahead. Do you think... When you get a message like that, does it make you feel like as a comic that we serve a purpose? Yeah, I don't... But I don't... I don't get too caught up in, that wasn't why I did it.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I'm not like, when I leave my house, I don't go like, I'll be at the comedy store doing a public service, sweetheart, back in a half hour. It's going to be funny. And then I think with just a regular bit about me saying people are overusing the word trauma on social media, that's not – no one's going to thank me. I mean people have thanked me in the comments, but like it's – I think the biggest thing is saying to people you're not crazy. It is overused.

You're not crazy. Crypto bros are aggravating. Just regular bits. Do you know what I mean? Do you think that even subconsciously, that's what got you into comedy when you were a teenager? Which part? The part of feeling less alone of like,

oh, this person thinks this thing that I thought was just a thing I thought. I think the under-regarded inspiration for comedy and any, I don't want to say anything in life, it's just status seeking. Yeah. Just like I would like some higher status in the world, please. Yeah.

But I think the need is, I said to my girlfriend the other day about like, you want love. Maybe it's parental love. Maybe it's, and then you've stuck you shove status in the hole yeah in the love hole and it kind of fits for a while you have to like you know there's gaps and stuff but you kind of just shove it in yeah so i don't but i think you can be a incredible incredible artists and still have the absolute worst reasoning why. Yeah. Like,

and I say that not even firsthand. I say it like, no, I know incredible artists who are basically doing it

because they want status and money and popularity and fame and, yeah, and,

and, and they make pitch perfect art. That's interesting. Yeah. And they make pitch perfect art. That's interesting. Yeah. I think it's a thing that people don't say enough. It's like, no, we're social animals. We would like to be higher on the status hierarchy.

Yeah. And I've had, I say that as somebody who was like, I became, I was very low status for, you know, I wrote for all that and MTV and then did Half Baked. And I was sort of like, me and Dave wrote it together. But it was like, I remember at the, how old are you, Neil? Well, at the Wedding Singer premiere, the producer of the Wedding Singer produced Half-Baked, and he introduced me to his father, and he said, Dad, this is the guy who wrote Half-Baked. He's more talented than he looks. Oh, my God.

So I was never like the bell of the ball and like the flashbulbs and all that stuff. And even at your premiere for uh for thank god for jokes or my girlfriend's boyfriend was in la the oh yeah yeah uh the my the old man in the pool somebody they i was stepping on i thought they wanted me to take pictures and then they were like no not you no not you oh my god somebody else was like, oh, this is great. Because I don't think you get funnier by getting your picture taken. I think you get funnier by them going, not you. Not you.

I think I got 3% funnier just in that moment. Yeah, yeah, I get that. But I would like it. I'd like to eradicate that from my life. The good news is it'll never go away. I know it's never going to go away. Like,

I just also attract that. Yeah, yeah. So, it's thwarted status. I became a very high status writer and then didn't really want to be

and then became like a low status director and an even lower status comedian and have worked my way up the status ladder in stand-up.

The, on the Kennedyedy center honors for chapelle you tell this story about how you got involved with half-baked and i'm like it's so funny of a story that i'm like is it even a hundred percent true basically you i'll paraphrase. Dave Chappelle calls you and who you're friends with. I'll tell the story because there's parts that I didn't put in the thing. Okay. Me and Chappelle, we'd written, whatever. I was working the door and then I gave him some pitches for tags for his act that worked.

This is in 92, 93. He actually flew me out to LA when he was doing Robin Hood Men in Tights. And we just hung out and it was like a good, we had lunch with Mel Brooks. Just like cool, like radio contest winner stuff. Like great, really. Radio contest winner stuff. We'd go to Arsenio. He was a guest. It was like just, he gave me like uh sort of like got

me in and i was like oh shit 96 we see train spotting the movie uh it's a great movie i love it and we're walking out it was late 96 and's like, yeah, you could do like a weed movie. You could do a weed version of that. I'm like, oh yeah. Literally, he says you could do a weed version. I'm like, oh yeah, that's true. Of Trainspotting? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So four months later, he says, if Universal calls, tell them we're doing a weed movie. That's all I knew. So then they called me. And you were like, okay. Yeah, I had no idea what he was talking about. Yeah.

I guess I was like the train. I didn't, whatever. It was just like a thing we'd said. I'd written a script that had nothing to do with him that the producer's office had read and then i had a meeting with the producer where i was just funny in the meeting this is before david gone in okay so then he goes in goes i'm writing a weed movie with my buddy and they go who and he goes you've never heard him they go who and he goes neil brennan and they go he was just here okay so then he says if they call you were doing a wee movie they call me i go they are you doing

a wee man i was like yes oh my gosh when when can you pitch it and i don't know anything about hollywood and i go in 30 days time like being legal about it so then i'm like probably paging him in this. Right, the 90s. Maybe he has a cell phone, I don't even remember. The day before I say, hey man, we gotta outline that weed movie. We have a pitch tomorrow. Wow. The joke that I added was, and then he said, what weed movie?

What weed movie, yeah. And in fact, I think Trayvon Free pitched me that joke like the day before. Yeah. Huge. So we're trying to outline this movie yeah and in fact i think trayvon free pitched me that joke like the day before yeah huge um so we're trying to outline this movie i'd given him this book the writer's journey which has got like the best screenplay structure guide in it i'd given it to him like a week earlier like hey we should read this i'd read it it was helpful, hey, we should read this. I'd read it. It was helpful. I was like, we should read this.

I think he read at least and like he just was like, you know, he got it. So then we had a Sunday. We were pitching Monday at 930 or something. And we took the Sunday and just did this with like index cards. Because I'd seen a documentary on PBS about two screenwriters called Lowell Ganz and Babalu Mandel who wrote City Slickers. That's right.

If I don't see that, I don't know what we're doing. Wow. So then we just basically outlined what became the movie that day. Yeah. And at one point we went to the comedy store because it was across the street and like,

Roseanne was there and this is like when Roseanne's a big deal and she like said to Dave like, and he's like, hey, I'm Dave Schmell and she was like, ah, I've heard of you. And then I go for a joke,

I go, I'm Richard Pryor. And she's like, what? I was like, all right. I just got 3% funnier. And then, so then we pitch it the next day and we basically sold the movie. This is in March. And then we're shooting in July.

Like just an insane. That's very weird. It's such a nod. The thing that got cut was, you know, then it gets made, gets greenlit, gets made. It came out the next January. So it's less than a year. Yeah.

From pitch to screen. Yeah. And the joke is like in that level of quality really shows up on screen. And the whole time we were doing it, people were like, you know, movies don't usually get made this quickly. And in the back of our heads, we're like, maybe not for you they don't. Yeah, yeah. And then, of course, we opened against Good Will Hunting and Titanic and it didn't happen for us to go that way either.

Yeah. You know, it's a bizarre timeline. Dave was one of the first people I ever opened for. Total fluke. I won the funniest person on campus at Georgetown. You can open for, and he said, who's the funniest person from Georgetown? No, no. So, so then it was just, he was the headliner. Yeah. And the DC improv. Yeah. And then I asked him, I, it was, it was 1997, I think. Was that the year it came out? The movie? Yeah. It came out in 98, January. 98. So that was, that was like the year it came out the movie yeah came out in 98 January 98 so that was

that was like the first time I did a stand up and I asked him for advice and then he and I remember he goes

make sure all your friends go see Half-Baked All right, this is a slow round. What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you? This is like your podcast. This is both categories, Mike, are so long. Okay. Friends or audience members? Friends.

Like, probably loyal, funny, thoughtful, and intelligent. Yeah. And helpful, if asked. Yeah. And helpful, if asked. Yeah. And unlike probably petty, self-involved, probably callous. Brian Simpson was on my podcast, great comedian from Austin. He's got a Netflix special special called life and mothership and he said he goes the problem is your voice sounds like you're perturbed and in a hurry and the minute i heard i was like he's right

i can't even he's absolutely right so so um so yeah the petty yeah uh grudge holding probably self-involved seem like you're in a hurry and seem like i'm uh perturbed and in a hurry when's the time you didn't apologize but wish you did yeah the the thing that comes to mind this is from 25 years 26 years ago my friend at the time randy or whenever he's still my friend he doesn't speak to me but we're friends don't worry about it and uh uh he's my friend whatever this is like look i don't if something here's the great thing about me is i i stop speaking to people all the time not all all the time, but once a year probably. But when people stop speaking to me, fair and square.

Yeah. You're good with it. I don't know why. I can figure out. Yeah. You heard the list. Yeah. And he was doing a seminar or something. There was a screenwriting class in a high school in Long Island.

And I told somebody about a movie. I told the class about it. And a kid pitched an idea that, in retrospect, is a good idea. And I didn't say that's a good idea. I was like, eh. But that's the thing where I was like, that's one where if I had a do-over, just off the top of my head um why didn't you say it was a good idea because it was like derivative but at that age

it's like they're gonna be derivative yeah you know what i mean but it was derivative in a good way um so so uh that's the one that comes to mind. Apologize. I wish I'd apologized to most women I dated in the moment. Yeah. It's not even apologize. It's a different thing. I wish I'd ended relationships sooner. That's not even near the question, but I wish I'd ended certain romantic relationships sooner and personal relationships sooner. I wish I'd ended romantic relationships sooner and personal relationships sooner. I wish I'd cut more people off sooner.

Not cut them off, but there are some small businesses, some ideas, some jokes, some relationships that are just never going to work. And I feel like I've thrown – I've abided by the sunk cost fallacy of like, well, I've already put in so much time. Let me put in more. Right. Well, you've had this a handful of times, and I can cut this out if it's too personal, but like a handful of times where you and I have friends in common where you're like, yeah, I'm not really friends with them anymore.

I'm kind of done with the rigmarole of like chasing them down kind of thing. And for me, I'm always kind of like, as your friend, I'm like, yeah, but that's what that person's like. What are you going to do? But you're kind of just like, nah, nah. Well, if that's what they're like, what I'm going to do is stop talking to them. That's it.

It's like I just have like more, that's it. It's like, I just, I just have like more, the, the ayahuasca DMT MDMA combo. Yeah. Uh,

has given me, uh, some self-respect. So more than I've ever had. Do you think, um, you changed the way that you perceive friendship from that? Like,

in other words, you, do you think you used to be okay with like an 80-20 friendship or a 60-40 friendship? Yeah, I used to be okay. And I think I've said to you, it's got to be 55-45 at worst. Oh, interesting. Ideally, a relationship is 50-50. It's impossible. The measurements are impossible. So you're going to 55 in terms of enthusiasm. I think it's got to be 50-50. In terms of enthusiasm. Yeah.

I think it's got to be 50-50. You know, it'll go, you know, times, currents, events, whatever. But I find hollow relationships dispiriting and depleting, whereas I used to tell myself they were enriching and they just weren't. That makes sense. Do you remember a time in your life where you're an inauthentic version of yourself? Yeah, but I think the assumption when you're an inauthentic version of yourself is that you're doing it maliciously. You're doing it like you're the talented Mr. Ripley. Right.

I'm doing duplicity. I think it's hard to figure out who you are. Yeah. Like I thought of a bit that I haven't even written yet, but I thought of a bit of like a lot of life is being a shitty detective for like yourself. Yes. Like is this my identity? And you're at a nightclub like with a magnifying glass going like, is it?

Of course it couldn't be in a nightclub. To the gymnasium. And then you, to Equinox, driver to the Equinox. And then you're looking like, maybe I'm a bodybuilder. Yes. And maybe I'm a, or even, I don't know if I said this to you, I may have said it to you, but like there was a, I remember seeing an art exhibit like in Midtown in the 90s when I would just walk around and walk around and walk around and walk around. And there was a sign that said like the purpose of one's life is to give birth to themselves and i remember going like it just like boing like all right that's in the that's in the my magna carta now yeah well that's what you go back that's what goes back to

the thing you're saying about uneven friendships it's the same thing yeah it's like you don't it's like you reach a point where you're like no i don't know it's i know what happens and it i didn't feel good yeah and it happened a hundred times so i'm like i'm gonna take that i'm gonna take its word for it yeah yeah i'm gonna take the relationship's word for it and it's not and that then and the nice thing is not even malicious yeah it's just like i don't know yeah yeah you know we could but i don't i don't like it so how do you open this out to someone who's listening because i think what you're saying is super relatable and i like i think you should consider talking about in your next listening? Because I think what you're saying is super relatable, and I think you should consider talking about it in your next special, this idea of if you're in an uneven friendship or relationship.

But what would your advice be to someone who's listening to this going like, oh, yeah, that's me. Well, are they the hero or the villain? They're the person who's getting the 30- 70 the 30 of the 30 70 well yeah like i said my my friend randy doesn't speak i've spoken to me in eight years a long time yeah told me why i was like i can't argue with it sometimes there have been relationships where i've been like i can tell you but i don't it's like i don't need you to change. It's just not, it doesn't work for me. Yeah.

But I don't think you're a shitty person. I just think like you're set up the way you're set up. And that's just what you're going to be set up as. Yeah. It's the Maya Angelou. If somebody tells you who they are, believe them. Yeah. It's so true.

It's on magnets. It's so true. It's on magnets. You know what I mean? Like it's so true it's on magnets you know what i mean like it's so beyond true it's useless so yeah like i i think it's hard and it's and relationships are hard work they're not that hard uh and they're not uh even romantic ones they're not they don't have to be that hard they they require maintenance they require like you know spraying the boat down but they're not you don't have to build the boat by yourself. You just spray it down together.

So, yeah, I think you might miss that person, but in my experience, you won't miss the person. You'll just wish they, you wish it worked out, but you won't be like, man, I wish I had some more disrespect in my life. Oh my gosh. I wish I had more hollow, silent disrespect that I can't prove, but I know is there. Yeah. It's a drag on your life. Okay, I wanna talk about material.

This is the thing I had this week which is I'm I'm sort of I threw on stage this week and I don't know what to do with it exactly but I'm doing this thing I was doing this thing about cults and how I would be open to sort of joining a cult and like and and it's a joke it's I go like I go the first episode of the documentary is you always feel yeah on board on board yeah yeah I'm on the first episode of the documentary is, you always feel, yeah. I'm on board. I'm on board, yeah. Yeah. I'm on board.

Yeah. Yeah, the community, there's a good sense of community. There's good, you know, Roberto makes a nice quiche. There's some carpooling. It's communal. It's communal. The second episode, it's like, then we had to have sex with Leder. And I'm just like.

No, I did a joke. Oh, you did a joke oh you did i did a joke up in the documentary thing in in crazy good where i was like i said if you haven't seen uh one of the cult documentaries here's what happened there's a cult it's going pretty good yeah and then at a certain point the leader goes hey everybody i spoke God. He needs me to fuck all your wives. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. So, and that's what happens in all. It's the same documentary over and over again.

Yes, it's just like different haircuts, different outfits. But here's what's funny. So, I did it in Texas. I did that joke in Texas. They can hear you, even if you're a zombie. I did a joke in Texas a few weeks ago, and someone wrote me a letter. And again, we're talking about feedback earlier. A letter? An email.

They wrote me an email. Registered mail. And it was basically like, you know, I enjoyed the show, but I was concerned because sex with a leader, it would be disproportionately, your wife would be affected more by it than you. Yeah. It's like, yeah, no, I know.

It's a joke. Yeah. Either this person is like really, really misunderstanding what I'm saying, or I'm very much misconveying what the joke is. I think they're misunderstanding what you're saying. I think that it's just, that's not, I mean, I literally had to write to somebody at one point. It was in comments and this is back when I was single. So I was more online.

So I wrote like, you don't understand comedy. I'm up there saying my point of view. And if it's funny, I keep saying it. Yeah. of view and if it's funny i keep saying it yeah it's i'm not up there to to to portray if i just go up there and portray shared values yeah it's a support group yeah that's an interesting way to put it yeah it's just not comedy i'm not up there to say here's what we all believe right and read it or say it in a different way right then it's just like claptory or it's not there's it has to be tension or there's not it's not going to happen it's not going to be funny this is another one where this happened last week is in Tulsa

which is great by the way when Gary and I uh who opens the shows on the tour when we landed in tulsa the driver from the hotel picked us up we told her it was our first time in town and so she started calling out the sites she was like that's that's the park and that's the city hall and then she pointed to her left and she goes and there was a police shootout there last week. And Gary and I sort of flashed each other, looked like, huh, I'm trying to stay away from there. And then 40 feet later, she stopped the car and said, and here's your hotel. That's really funny.

It was scary. Yeah. I thought when there was a police shootout last week, like, oh, congratulations. Like, you guys got a police shootout. Very good. Yeah, that's very funny and and uh yeah maybe it's like oh no we we moved we oh we changed our reservation when right after you just said what you said we just changed our reservation just in the three seconds between so let's keep going let's Just keep going. We're going to find the other place.

All right. The last thing we do in the show is working it out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to support? Amazon Watch is a nonprofit that protects indigenous people and rights. When I looked it up, just to be clear, a whole bunch of photos of wristwatches showed up. I should hope so. It sounds like a very fake.

The organization is called AmazonWatch.org, founded in 1996 to protect the rainforest and advance the rights of indigenous peoples in the Amazon Basin. We'll contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes. Thanks rights of indigenous peoples in the Amazon basin. We'll contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes. Thanks for coming on. Love the special.

Thank you. I'm so glad it's doing so well. Thank you. And yeah, it's awesome. Thank you. Great to have you, buddy. Great to be here. Well, we're going to take out great to have you.

Yeah, yeah. I think you have. Working it out because it's not done. Working it out, because there's no hope. That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. I love talking to Neil. His new special Crazy Good is on Netflix now. You can follow him on Instagram, at Neil Brennan,

on TikTok, at MR, Neil Brennan. You can watch the full video of this interview on our YouTube page, which is at Mike Birbiglia. Check that out and also subscribe. We're posting more and more videos every day over on YouTube. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia, and Mabel Lewis, associate producer Gary Simons.

Sound mix by Shubh Saran, supervising engineer Kate Balinski. Special thanks to David Raphael and Nina Quick. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J-Hope Stein. Her book, Little Astronaut, is not only in bookstores, but it's available on

audiobook now. Special thanks as always to our daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. Tell everybody which episode you like best and you think that people should start on. Tell your friends, tell your enemies.

You know, we talked a lot about friendship today on the show, how Neil requires something close to a 50-50 effort, maybe a 55-45. Let's say you have a friend who's teetering on the edge. They're only putting in, let's say, 45, 44, 43, maybe 40. You've got to be honest. You go, hey, I notice you're hovering around 45, 44. Why don't you listen to this specific episode of Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out with Neil Brennan?

Maybe you'll realize why you've got to get back to 45. Thanks a lot, everybody. We're working it out with Neil Brennan. Maybe you'll realize why you got to get back to 45. Thanks a lot, everybody. We're working it out.