Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 145. Matteo Lane: Working Towards the Masterpiece

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

This week Matteo Lane joins Mike for an episode that has something for everyone. From Matteo’s hilariously scorching takes on modern pop stars to tales of secret families to insight about what Matteo did when he hit a wall in his comedy career. Plus, Mike and Matteo work out jokes about Mike meeting the Pope in Rome and Matteo gets serious about his Liza Minelli impression.Please consider donating to Howard Brown Health

And by the way, we're swap seats today in case anyone's wondering. This is my better side, and I also got Botox today, so this side of my face looks kind of busted. Can you talk about what that entails? The Botox is a chemical and it relaxes your muscles. For the next three months, I don't look as tired. My God.

That's it, but I get very little bit done. You don't want too much. Should I get it? Because people tell me I look tired all the time. You're straight, you have. You're fine, you're straight. But hold on. Not that I have to because I'm gay, obviously, but there's like a, I don't know. But you're also married. Yeah.

So you don't have the demands of being out on the town. No. You might be out on the town. No judgment. I never was anyways. When it hits 6pm and I don't have shows, I'm on Fortnite. I have no, I don't go out, I don't drink. I'm on Fortnite. Are you a Fortnite guy?'t go out, I don't drink. I'm on Fortnite. Are you a Fortnite guy? Every single night and I build for those wondering.

That is the voice of the great Matteo Lane. Oh man, I love talking to Matteo today. He's someone who I've known for a bunch of years. I see him at the Comedy Cellar all the time. He's really blown up recently. He's been touring like crazy. He has a whole bunch of specials on YouTube. He's a fascinating person.

He's a Renaissance person. He can draw. He went to the Art Institute of Chicago. He can sing opera. And he's a brilliant and very, very funny comedian. If you don't know him, you should check out the specials that he put on YouTube called the advice specials There are three of them. It's it's a really funny take on crowd work

Mateo is on tour right now this week. He'll be in Cleveland Cincinnati and Pittsburgh. I will be in Pittsburgh as well. I'm I'm doing a whole run of shows on my Please Stop the Ride tour. I just announced two shows over Thanksgiving weekend at the Kravis Center in Palm Beach, Florida, November 29 and November 30. Like I said, I'll be in Pittsburgh, I'll be in Madison, Milwaukee, Detroit, Louisville, Nashville, Knoxville, Asheville, all the villas, that's four villas in a row, and Charleston, South Carolina, all of us on Burbigs.com, join the mailing list for all the tour dates. And also, I was at the Emmys last weekend,

great experience. My friend Alex Edelman, who's been a three-time guest on this show, and I produced his show, Just For Us, he won in the same category that I was in. I actually wrote a piece about it that went out to that very mailing list that I just told you to sign up for.

And we're gonna do an episode in a couple weeks, I think, where I read that here on the podcast. But so many people came up to me at the Emmys and said that they were fans of this podcast. It was super nice. People telling me that they're telling their friends and that they're telling their enemies. And it really made me smile. So thank you to all those folks who came up to me and said that and meant a lot to me. I love this conversation with Mateo. We talk about art, we talk about work ethic, we talk about advice, giving advice, taking advice, taking notes from people.

We talk about him coming out of the closet. I tell my story about meeting the Pope. Matteo has some suggestions for it as a bit. It's a super collaborative working it out section today. One of my favorites in a while, just a fountain of humor and warmth, enjoy my conversation with the great Mateo Lane. Oh, working it.

So, but here's one of the things I envy about you. I watch your crowd work special, which is advice. Sure, which I do once a year by the way. People, I think they think I'm a crowd work guy. It's so, right, it's so funny. Oh thanks. And you sing, and you're doing material, and you're doing crowd work, and you're telling stories.

And I'm like, you're like a classic entertainer, which is what I feel like, did you set out to do that? Because I love it. I love that you give an experience to the show. It's not just one thing. Sure. I don't know. I think my journey to comedy was just like,

what kind of things have I collected in life as I was trying to run away from my sexuality? Oh, I picked up this. You know, like it's I guess like seeking an identity. And I just kind of had a lot. But I was always drawing as a kid. For those who don't know, I was kind of had a lot. and 7 Up and DSW, all that stuff. I was like 22, I was really young.

I had a drawing job with this company that no longer exists, but my friend was the art director and they needed an artist full time. I moved to New York and I lived in a, I lived in, I think, one of those over the years. Bathtub in the kitchen. And people were like, it's not like an architectural digest. Like, I really thought this bathtub in the, like that's something Gwyneth Paltrow would say on her journey through her billion dollar home. I was like, no, I washed my dishes and ass in the same place. I live like a Polish immigrant from 1940.

This is how I live right now. I loved it, by the way. And I had every Chicago comic coming to visit me because I had this tiny little wooden loft space above where I slept. So every Chicago comic came and slept up there. I loved that. It was so fun.

It's very hospitable. That's part of your charm, too. You have a very hospitable way about you. I'm not 38 now, I don't want anyone in my home. But you know, when you're 25 and you're a young comic, you're like, come, you know. Totally. So you moved in your 20s to New York from Chicago.

You started in the Chicago Comedy Center? Yeah, 2009. I feel like I see you so much, I see you so much as a comedy teller, I feel like we're family. But then I'm looking up things and going, I didn't know Mandeo's from Indiana. No, Chicago, how dare you? But then you were saying to your podcast duo partner,

that you would go to part of Indiana that was on the lake. So my friend Chuck had a beach house in Chicago in the Indiana Dunes. We'd go all the time over the summer and stay there. My friend Nick Smith didn't realize that Lake Michigan had beaches. I saw that, yes. He's an idiot.

He is so funny to me. That guy is so funny to me. People are so mad at him. He didn't know that clouds were made of water. I know, I saw that. Lizzo came after us. She made a whole video about us. Are you serious?

Dead serious. I was talking about when Wizard of Oz came out. Yeah. And he goes, when was that? I was like, well, I'll give you a clue. It's the same year we entered World War II. The 1800s. I said, you think we had planes in the 1800s?

He goes, well, when was it? I said, and so when I finally told him it was 1939, a funny response, he goes, you mean to tell me that when the worlds went to war, our response was the Wizard of Oz? Which is very funny. Well, it blew up and then Lizzo got wind of it. Lizzo, who evidently is not busy,

and made a whole Instagram post being like, Lizzo got wind of it, Lizzo, who evidently is not busy, and made a whole Instagram post being like, this is disgusting, and with the education system, by the way, she's right, Nick's an idiot. But also too, all the comments were like, Lizzo, don't you have allegations against you from your backup dancers? so called Nick an idiot. I'm not a good student. I almost failed high school. Very, very bad. We can work with that. Yeah, very, very bad at athletics.

Like, I am not sportive. No! 100%. This is just to get fucked. I am not athletic. My greatest fear in life is walking my kids playing sports until I hope the ball doesn't roll over me. Like, I just, I was never, I'm not coordinated that way. I'm not kidding.

I cannot dance. Like, I don't know how to dance. I don't understand. Like I'm like. Play an instrument? I sing. Sing, that's it. That's enough. If I played piano, I would be rich.

This is, when we're sitting at the table sometimes, I'll always hit you up for advice on who is a good singer. I have a very thorough list for you. So I'm going to go through the list. Christina Aguilera? Yes, Christina's a good singer. Christina Aguilera is, are you a big Christina fan? No, we had this conversation yesterday.

The problem with Christina is like, I think subtlety would go a long way. You know, and I love a melisma. I love a, ah, but Christina adds words to a word, right? So like for Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas, she's literally going, Hang a shining star at the highest by a lark.

No. That... We are losing the meaning of the song. You know? That's exactly right. Yeah, because, and not that everything has to be Judy Garland's version of Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas, but it meaning of the song. You know? That's exactly right. Yeah, because, and not that everything has to be Judy Garland's version of Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas,

but it's a sad song. Right. Meanwhile she's... Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah but not in every room. Beyonce. A very good singer. Beyonce is like a deity. Oh yeah, certainly. At this point, I think honestly, Beyonce's strength isn't just that like, she's stunning, she's a good singer, she's dancing, but she's smart.

She really surrounded herself with very smart people, and I think that she works with those people, because we know a lot of divas where, they have all this talent, but they're not listening to people around them, and they start making decisions where I think it can kind of take away from their artistry in some sense. Ariana Grande.

A very good singer. Ariana is like our last hope, I feel like. You know what I mean? I feel like Princess Leia, like, help me Ariana Grande, you're our last hope, I feel like Princess Leia. You know what I mean? I feel like Princess Leia like, help me Ariana Grande, your only hope. You know, because singing is that when you watch Whitney Houston sing the national anthem, everyone is very soon to forget the standard of singing at that time. Think about it. In 1995, we had Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, and Celine Dion.

Yeah. Name a single singer today who's as good as any of those three. There is none. So that was the standard singer. And then before them, Aretha Franklin, Patti LaBelle, Donna Summer. I mean, these were like real singers.

Before then, Ella Fitzgerald, you have Judy Garland, Barbra Streisand, Sarah Vaughn. So it's just like the- So you're making the case that like the, kind of the diva tradition has not been carried on. I think the musicianship has not been, the artistry in other words.

I think that producers are now the most important thing and I think it's sort of a result of how we digest music. So it's not like the album. It's the song. So I listened to Ariana Grande and then I listened to Queen. So there was no other time where that was kind of existing. But Ariana Grande, great singer. Lea Michele. Can't read and is I think racist. Wasn't that the rumor about her? Can't read and she's racist. I will say though, I saw Beanie finding-

Is she unsubstantiated? I mean, I mean I'll look it up. Oh, she knows. But I will say about her. And I don't know that she can't read or she's right, that's allegedly, but. It's really the comment. I will say I saw Beanie Feinstein. Yeah, Feldstein, she's phenomenal. Well, at certain things.

Okay, okay. I saw her, I loved her as an actress. Oh, I didn't see her in the musical, in fairness. I saw her. Barbra Streisand, besides Maria Callas, this is Maria Callas of her work, is my... Can you show that to the camera? Maria Callas, I designed this tattoo. That is beautiful.

But Barbra Streisand's voice is, I would say, like her and Whitney Houston are probably the greatest singers of all time in pop music. And I saw Beanie Do, Funny Girl, and when she first, when she came out, I liked her, because I liked her comedic choices. the greatest singers of all time in pop music. And I saw Beanie do Funny Girl. And when she first, when she came out, I liked her because I liked her comedic choices. I think she's a fantastic actress.

She's got great stage presence. When you're singing a song called I'm the Greatest Star, the whole point of Funny Girl is that she's an odd duck and she's trying to make it in show business. And we can't figure out what it is that we're going to do to make her a star. She's not pretty like the other girls, she can't dance like the other girls.

She sings, ah, this is your talent. So when she's up there singing I'm the greatest star, no vibrato, no sustaining, no breath support, no nothing, I walked out, I stood up, I was with Maria Faustin, she could tell you, I stood up and I walked out. I thought under no circumstances. Then I went back and saw the one that can't read. And for not being able to read.

You went twice. For not being able to read the script or music, blew, she was phenomenal. So, and the woman next to me would not stop playing with her water bottle and I was furious. I went with Val, let's see, oh my God. Brittany. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. Okay, next one.

That's how I feel about Brittany's voice. That's your full dissertation. Dissertation on Brittany. Cher. You know, the one thing I, oh Sonny, you son of a bitch. I have nothing but good things to say about Cher. I think she is phenomenal, I think she's smart, I think she gets it, I think she's funny,

I think she can be irreverent, I think she's a great singer for the kind of music she sings, I think she's very aware. Cher in her own interview says, I'm not the biggest Cher fan. That's a great line. I love Cher. How about Adele?

Good singer. I like Adele. I think she's also funny. I saw her in concert and she sings these sad songs. Everyone's there just to cry. And then the second the song finishes, she's like, anyways, I was walking around today and it was raining and I thought I was up in London.

And I'm like, okay, let's just. Well, that was great. I was reading this quote where you said that when you were in the closet, you had like an intense feeling of shame and then at a certain point you had a turn where you felt pride. Do you remember what that pivot point was?

Yes, I applied to a job at Michael's Arts and Crafts. Kidding. You know what it was? It was there, I think, I can't get you back in my day. I am a kid of the 80s and so growing up, there was still the, there was still everything, the community was still dealing with the shame, of being shamed, you know, for everything that they went through in the 80s, the AIDS crisis and the amount of injustice and fuck you, Reagan.

And, you know, it just was a lot. And so I think there was this notion from straight people that it's like, oh, if you're gay, this is what happens to you. Right. You know, so then I was like four, you know that it's like, oh, if you're gay, this is what happens to you. So then I was like four, it's 1989. The Reagan thing was based on, he was just kind of in denial about the AIDS crisis. In denial, the only time he talked about it,

he laughed about it. What a piece of shit. And thank you, lesbians, they really came, I'm not kidding, they really came to a lot of queer and gay men and trans people's aid, because people would kick us out of hospitals and stuff. Anyhow, so it's just kind of growing up in the 90s, there was still that, you know, you're still grappling with like the guilt of being gay and then you're Catholic

and that makes it even worse. So it's like in every angle you went to, there was no safety, you know, there's certainly no safety in religion, there's no safety in speaking about it to your family, there's no safety. There's certainly no safety in religion. There's no safety in speaking about it to your family. There's no safety in telling it publicly. So you kinda start to develop weird sort of survival skills at a young age.

And I remember being, I didn't realize because of the voice, being gay was such a voice on the fringe. I'm sure there were people obviously speaking out or doing stand-up or doing shows, but not that I had any access. I couldn't access that. There was no YouTube. So a lot of sort of internalized homophobia happens to you,

which I'm still shedding. But the first time I ever was able to see being gay in a different light was a podcast way back in the day from 2000 where my friend Patrick Powers hosted it, Patrick No and Rob, and it was gay men in their 20s living in Chicago laughing. They, you know, oh, I got called a drive-by faggot today. And they're, oh, were you wearing a short miniskirt?

Were you asking for it? I didn't realize that humor could be applied to your pain. So that was the start of the connection. I thought, oh, here's these voices on the fringe. And usually when they talk about gay stories, especially that in the media, it has to be attached to trauma, it must be attached to sadness.

You know, the queer voice in a lot of spaces could never be seen as something light, funny. And look, a lot of queer people for so many years survived through humor. Sure. You know, you go to see a drag show. Like you look at someone like Lady Bunny, who's a phenomenon, and she's on stage

and she's ripping jokes here and there, and you think, God, people say gay people are so funny. Well, what do you think she went through? Right. You know, what is your survival tactic after a while, when all your friends are dead? So, you know, I came out of that era as a young person sort of feeling the grief and the sadness for my community

and then dealing with straight people. So my first safe space ever was podcasting. Yeah, it's so interesting because you do a lot of stuff with like Shultz and DeStefano and I bet, like when I work with DeStefano on this podcast, my audience, some of stuff with like Schultz and DeStefano and I bet, like when I work with like DeStefano in this podcast, my audience, some of them are like, hey, what, you know, that's not, we're not into what he's doing or whatever.

How do you square that? Because your audience sometimes probably pushes back on that. Well, it's a couple of things. Number one, I'm not a believer in, I don't think we should only speak into our own echo chambers. I think there can be something quite dangerous in that. I mean, I know people say, oh, I don't think we should only speak into our own echo chambers. I think there can be something quite dangerous in that.

I mean, I know people say, oh, you're amplifying voices that are bad, but also sometimes those voices being heard shows how stupid they are. Now, this is not about Andrew or Chris. I'm talking like psychotic right wing, whatever. But you have to remember, too, that Andrew and Chris are my graduating class. Sure.

We all started together. You came up together. Yeah. So there is like, you know, my first open mic I went to in New York was at the Grizzly Pear. There was seven of us and one of them was Michelle Wolf and one of them was Tim Dillon. Oh my God. So you have to remember like people like they couldn't believe like why are you and Andrew

Schultz like hanging out like because we were at the open mics together. We were at the bar shows together. We were of the same graduating class. So that's kind of where it comes from. And to Andrew's credit, he changed my life. I mean, I don't remember anyone else giving me a shot. Netflix said no to me a million times. I wanted to name my last special. I wanted to name it Netflix Said No.

And everyone said, my manager said it was a bad idea, but I still think it's very funny. But you know, he gave me a shot, he put me on his puck. I called him. I remember that. Yeah, I was at my end. I mean, I've been doing stand-up for 16 years, and I, to this point, this is like three and a half years

ago, four years ago, I was doing a Thursday night of improv in Miami, canceled, only sold 20 tickets. Oh wow. You try and sell half years ago, four years ago, I was doing a Thursday night of improv in Miami. Canceled, only sold 20 tickets. You try and sell your Netflix special? No, not right for us. And my counterparts were really succeeding. I was watching all these really funny comics, Joel Kombuster and Cola Scola and James Adomian

and all these people I admire and love were figuring it out and I was like, what am I doing wrong? So I called Schultz and I said, what do I do? And he said, he talked to me for two and a half hours. He was walking through the village. I was in Italy at the time. I like Schultz a lot, yeah.

Yeah, and he said, take everything and again, I'm a doer, you tell me something to do, I'll do it. Even if it's right under your nose, then I can see it. Take that hour you're going to sell Netflix and cut it up and caption it and da da da. And you know, everything, he was right. I always bring you up when people talk about

the scourge of Instagram and Reels and all this kind of stuff. And I'm always like, one good thing that it's done for comedy is you look at people like Mateo, you look at Jess Kersen, there's like a handful of people who always were great comics. Of course. And somehow the algorithm got their comedy to people who really like that comedy. And they then exploded.

You and Jess Kersen are people who have exploded. When you think about Jessica, who's funnier than Jessica? Nobody. There is no one. I think of her and Yamanika as like the funniest comics I watched. Yamanika's hilarious. And, you know, it's so funny how it is just under your nose. Like Jessica, after so many years of doing

all these things she's accomplished, right? She just starts putting some stuff online and people are obsessed. And it's like, yeah, because the audience is never wrong. You know who's wrong? The gatekeepers. Those are the people that are wrong. You're absolutely right, because the audience is never wrong. You know who's wrong? The gatekeepers. Those are the people that are wrong. You're absolutely right.

So the audience is right. It's interesting though, I think you and I have that in common about comedians like Charlton DeStefano. I always ended up carrying water for these other comedians who say these crazy, crazy things. And I have to say, I think these people are funny. I think they make audiences happy. And I think they're decent people.

I know some of them pretty well. And I don't know what to say beyond that. I can't speak for every joke that everyone makes. Well, that's impossible. I can't defend even my own mother and everything she says. You know what I mean? That's an impossible request from someone. This is called the slow round. Okay.

What's the time you lied and got away with it or didn't get away with it? Well, that I didn't get away with it, that I'm straight. Lied. I don't lie a lot and so when I do lie, when I get caught I feel horrible for it. I can't think of anything else at the top of my head. When you would say you're straight, to what age was that? Till I was 18. 18.

Who was I kidding? I always make the joke that people called me faggot in high school, which they did, but then as an adult, I'm like, well they weren't wrong. You know? They picked up on something, I think. Right. I used to lie about certain things

when I first was doing podcasts in New York. So I would always like kind of make up very small stuff. Like, did you speak Italian at home? Yes, I did. No, I didn't. I learned it when I went to Italy to visit family and friends. Small little lies like that. But then I also... You speak Italian, Spanish. Those I speak.

English. My husband was like, you don't speak Spanish. I'm like, then what am I speaking to right now? Italian, Spanish, English. You don't speak Spanish. No, it's because you're doing Italian. So my question is, what language do you have sex in? Well, I speak Italian,'s proficient. To a non-speaker, I'm fluent. To a fluent speaker, I'm good. And French and some German. Wow. But, you know, I'm Italian and my grandpa,

my real grandfather's from Mexico. So I have Mexican heritage. I'm a quarter Mexican. And so I thought it was important. Like, I don't know much about my Mexican family because it was such drama. Oh. He was married to my grandma.

She's Italian. They had five kids together. So my mom and her brothers and sisters are all half Mexican, half Italian. He had another family at the same time. There you go. And named all those kids the same names as my grandma's kids so he didn't confuse them.

Let's unpack this. Two Joaquins, two Lee says. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes. No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. And I have pictures of all my family in Mexico. Shock, it's all.

Wait, I just want to slow down because sometimes you speak quickly. Yes. But this is very significant. Okay. Your grandfather. Yes. Had two different families.

Did the families know about one another? No. Two families didn't know about one another, named his children the same names? Yes. What the fuck? And I talked about it on a Mexican TV show called Noches Con Platenito.

And the host's response was, que inteligente tu abuelo. So... It was interesting. I mean, that's crazy. Have you put this on a special? I'm talking about it now on my special that I'm filming in October. I mean, that's too good.

The thing is, because I always like to say... I grew up and we weren't allowed to talk about my Mexican family because my grandma, she was so traumatized by that. And then, you know, they were living in poverty, and all their furniture confiscated, and my mom and her sisters had to be raised by their grandparents, and my grandma, so much trauma.

Wait, wait, wait, why was the furniture confiscated? Well, because my grandma had no money. She's got five kids at home, and her husband leaves for six months because he's got another family, so she's trying to steal and trying to keep them alive, and then they don't have money to pay for anything, so people come in, take all their stuff

and the screaming and the fight, you know. Is that your mom? Is that your mom's child? Yes. Oh my God. So, you know, my Sicilian grandfather, my grandma remarried when my mom was 12 to a Sicilian named Nick Pomaro who is blind. He went blind at five and became a judge.

And he adopted my mom and her brothers and sisters and then they had two more, so my mom's one of seven. And he like saved our family. And him and I are so close and we talk almost every day and I grew up with him. Is he about your mom's age? No, no, he's 87 now. Oh wow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, my nonna and my nonna are like 87 and 88. Wow. And my grandma's really mad at JLo. That's a smaller point. She is, she can't stand her. She can't stand her and she can't stand me more, I don't know why. Anyway, but he was...

The big stuff and the little stuff. If I call my grandma now, she knows everything about pop culture, everything. She's 88, she's obsessed, and my grandpa's blind, so when I said, well, you know, JLo, she's really pretty. Hey, Jeanette, you didn't tell me that J she's obsessed. And my grandpa's blind, so when I said, well, you know, JLo, she's really pretty. Hey, Jeanette, you didn't tell me that JLo's pretty. I can't stand her!

She's screaming. They're Italians. But yeah, but that's who raised me. So I mean, I was communal raising. I grew up next to all my cousins. My grandparents, they were with every single day. This was in Chicago. In Chicago, yeah.

So my grandparents, I feel very fortunate. Like, they know everything about me. I talk to them the way I talk to you. They are the best grandparents on the face of the planet. Wow, so all's well. My real grandfather was Mexican with another family. I never met him, but I would get, my mother and him reconciled. My mom was 30 and she just-

That's a lot to reconcile. Well, she said she was like, I am sick of hiding this and I'm sick of denying this and I want to confront him and she and her brothers and sisters found him. And to his credit, he admitted to everything. Absolutely everything. And then they slowly built a kind of relationship

until he died. So he would send us birthday cards. So I'd get from Joaquin Maldonado, they called him Jack. Maldonado, he gave me a big League Choo. Obviously he knows nothing about me. I would have preferred a Barbie dress. But yeah. That's an unbelievable life story.

I mean that's a movie. I know. Can you think of a moment in your life that in hindsight you realized changed everything about your life? There was a lot. The biggest moment would be getting accepted to the school, the Art Institute of Chicago.

I had five drawings and it was called it portfolio day or IDO day. It's the number one art school in the country and I was so bad at school, I didn't even want to go to college and my brother and sister didn't go to college and so it just wasn't like, I don't know. I didn't think it was meant for me

but I was always, always, always good at drawing. I never did art in high school. So I went to one class at Harper College, which is a public college, remember, and the teacher also happened to teach at the Art Institute and pulled me aside day one and said, what the hell are you doing here? And in terms of drawing, I was a bit of a prodigy.

That I can admit openly. I've seen you draw on the tables even at the cellar. You're a phenomenal. You just have a natural talent. But I'm so far removed from it, now I can speak about it objectively, that I was great. But I was, and he helped me. I did like five drawings.

I waited in all day, me and my cousins, everything that the family has to come with. And I remember just like a line of teachers and just reject, because only 1,500 kids go to the school. So rejecting, no, no, no. And my family has no money, so we can't afford it. So I walk up and I put my paper down and she looked at it. She looked at the next one. And then she went back and called another teacher.

Now three teachers are looking at it. And then she, they, you're accepted to the School of Arts in Chicago. And it was the first time I was good at school. I wanted to go to school. I met interesting people. I was surrounded by other artists I felt suddenly included.

I came out of the closet. Like I had purpose. So it was the biggest change in my life was getting accepted there. And it was interesting because either half the kids are super rich or they're not like me. So, you know, I had to still work.

I had to have a job. I had to take the train every day. I had to commute. I had to live at home. Like, I didn't get to live in the dorms and do the whole party life and stuff. But it was great because it kind of taught me from the beginning, here's how you work.

You wake up early, you get on the train, you got like, it gave me great work ethic, which I used for standup. I always had good work ethic. But that school changed my life. It's interesting. You were saying, was it one teacher who basically said you should apply here?

His name was Michael, and I can't remember his last name. Sorry, Michael, but he was teaching at Harper, and he literally, literally pulled me aside after one day of drawing class and literally said to me, what are you doing here? It's amazing. But no one ever encouraged you? I've heard this idea before and I think it's very true,

which is sometimes it does take one person in your life. Are you Lady Gaga? Yes. Remember, there's a hundred people in the room and one person, oh, she said it one more time. She said it a thousand times. The gays were obsessed. The gays would not let it go.

She's so good for memes. And I can't wait for this Joker promotion because she's insufferable on all these like, you know. Oh wait, we didn't talk about Gaga as a singer. She's great. She's great. Yeah, but she's insufferable. You ever see that clip of her in Selma Hayek and their behavior about acting? And Lady Gaga, you've seen it, yeah, yeah. Lady Gaga's like, and you know, I said to myself, You ever see that clip of her and Selma Hayek and they're being everybody acting?

And Lady Gaga, you've seen it, yeah, yeah. Lady Gaga's like, and I said to myself, I wrote a letter to myself, a dissertation. I said, I don't need you anymore. Forget it. And Selma Hayek, they're just zooming her face and she's like, what is this white bitch talking about? It's so funny.

You've got to Google it, it's great. I do think there is something to that idea of like, it sometimes does take one person just being like, oh, actually, you're good at this. That's so funny. loves you. But I say this on every single, any platform I say, literally the only people that believed in me was the comedy seller. Because everybody else that I was trying to get ahead, any kind of gatekeeper, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And SD and Gnome were like, you're funny.

You can work here. They kept me alive for, I say this to SD all the time, you guys literally kept me alive. You kept me alive. And then because this to Estee all the time, like you guys literally kept me alive. You kept me alive. And then because of that, like Aziz saw me and I started touring with Aziz. So then you learn how to do theaters and you learn how to use that stage,

you learn how to be backstage, you learn how to do lighting and sound. There's so much you learn from it. And Estee always says that to me, because we always get brunch or we get dinner together. Me and Keith Robinson, my nemesis. I was dating Keith all of 2020. But she always said, she's like, it's interesting to take these comics,

you just put them in the system and it's like an incubator and just watch it go. But I always liked watching comics at the cellar like Michelle Wolf, who every time she went on stage, she was trying something new. And I thought that was so brave and inspiring that I just kind of always kept that. So I'm always trying to do something new on stage at The Cellar. I always plug The Cellar on here

because I really think if you're coming to New York City and you love comedy, go to any night at The Comedy Cellar, any show, they booked that room better than any comedy room I've ever seen in my life. What's a song that makes you cry? Maria Callas singing Visitarte. Don't know it. It's her and Tosca.

What about It Makes You Cry? Well, god, do we have time for me to nerd out like this? Yeah, yeah, of course. So Maria Callas was a very famous opera singer and she was very famous for a long time. She was married to this guy in his early hundreds named Managini, and she just was like known as this diva, but phenomenal, phenomenal voice, phenomenal acting, all this stuff. Anyway, she started an affair with Aristotle Lanasis, left singing for him, and then just like lived on his yacht and was really trying to vie for his attention and wanted to get

married to him. She finally got pregnant with him and he said, you pick me or the baby. So she had an abortion and then he married Jacqueline Kennedy. And she went back to opera to sing in Tosca, which is an opera about an opera singer. It was very meta, right? And she's singing visitarte. So did I live for art or love her art essentially.

She's contemplating what am I living for here? And so they have a recording of her singing it at that time, which they hails the greatest operatic moment in history. And it's not even her acting, she's literally heartbroken and you can feel it in her voice. And it's just the most incredible artistic thing I've ever seen. It's real. It's just real.

I try and watch it once a year because it's so emotional, but she always makes me cry. What's the best piece of advice someone's given you that you used? So he'd walk up and take a black brush and slap it through and say, now start over. Now based on how you respond is how he's going to teach you. And he made such a great point, where people get so fussy and nitpicky and specific about like this joke or how I have to be the other.

You have to work general to specific. All art is the same. Work general to specific. And you're not working on the masterpiece, you're working towards the masterpiece. In other words, give yourself a break. You don't know everything yet. You're not Da Vinci.

He didn't do the Mona Lisa day one. So it takes time to get there. It's like the same thing with statues. You know, it's like you can't make a statue by starting with just the eye. Get the general shape down first and slowly work your way in, general to specific. So I've always used that mentality with even comedy.

General to specific, you're not working on that space, you're working towards it. All the rules are the same for all art. The expression and the medium is different, but the rules are the same. How do you get feedback on new material and new jokes? I love any comic telling me anything they think. I have absolutely no sensitivity towards anything.

I don't, if I'm writing new jokes and if someone said to me, this doesn't work, I say thank you. I have zero ego about that. That's really interesting, because that's a huge strength. Like if people are, a lot of creatives listen to the show. It's almost like a thing you can't teach people because no one wants to hear it as an idea.

It came from open critiques at art school. I'm telling you, art school, every single week you have to put all your paintings up on the wall and you do critique. And so you have to learn at a young age how to accept criticism and critiques and work with it to apply for a better painting. Because what's more important?

You winning the argument and your ego feeling better in that moment because someone told you that something in your joke didn't work, or that the joke works and you can use it on tour and it's a success and then you learn how to better joke right. So what's the difference? So I don't have that kind of,

I have an ego in other things. Sure. But certainly not if someone says to me, this doesn't work and check that away, I say thank you. That's one of the things I love about the art of stand-up comedy is that it's, to use a tennis analogy, it's a true bounce. The audience is not lying when they're not laughing. They don't think it's funny. Right.

That if they laugh, they're, laughing. They don't think it's funny. Right. If they laugh, some people can fake laugh, but it doesn't sound like a laugh. There's nothing worse than, huh. Yeah. It's like, I gotta go back to the drawing. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's really right. That makes sense in my head,

but sometimes it's just a word you're missing, or something in the premise you're missing, and then it clicks. Yeah. Stand-up is strange. It's a strange thing. Yeah, Jake Johansson gave me this piece of advice when I opened for him in the late 90s

of the Washington DC improv when I was a door person where he goes, he's a great comedian, Jake Johansson, and he goes, we were talking about a specific joke that I had and I go, I think this is funny, but the audience doesn't think it's funny. And he goes, sometimes the audience, they're not in your head. And so you have to convey the vision you have in your head

and you might not be conveying it with the right words. And I've found that to be instructive to this day. Yeah, the premise is missing something. Yeah. Yeah. These are good questions. We love it. We love doing this little round. I'm really enjoying this. Yeah. Yeah. These are good questions. We love it. We love doing the slow round. I'm really enjoying this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hope is that with the slow round, we end up finding something that ends up being a joke. That's the hope. The shirt choice I wore today? I like it. It's a bit much.

I don't even understand that you're saying this is your better side, and that's why we're sitting on these sides. I mean, what's better about it? You both sides, your face looks nice. I like it. I have new jokes. I put them over here. And if you have new jokes, you want to, premises, you want to talk out, this is the working it out section. One thing is, I went to Rome. Do you know this? I went to Rome, I met the Pope.

I tell you this. Yes, you were all those comics that went to meet the Pope. Yeah, so I've been working this out on stage. Why? What was that? So, okay, the Pope decided, Pope Francis decided that he wanted to meet with comedians because he feels like comedians are, unite people with laughter, which I agree with.

And he thinks what we do is significant and important at this moment, because people are so divided. And I thought it was, I was led to believe, you know, it was like a crazy line of people. I mean, it was like, we'll be Goldberg and Chris Rock and Stephen Colbert and Jim Caffeine, all these people. I was led to believe that we were going to talk with him.

Right. That is not what happened. Of course not. We were spoken to talk with him. Right. That is not what happened. Of course not. We were spoken to by him. In Italian or Spanish? In Italian. Yeah. About comedy.

And actually this is a little thing, which I said last night on stage at the cellar ago, which is a great example of power corrupting, that you're like the best priest and then you think you should lecture comedians which is a great example of power corrupting. That you're the best priest and then you think you should lecture comedians about comedy. It's like me showing up at NASA. Let me tell you a few things about Rockets. and that's been less funny.

with the other folks. Like if you met him at a party, you'd be like, this fucking guy. Yeah, did he say Frogettini? Remember he said faggot like a month earlier? No, that was the whole thing. Every kid was laughing hysterically. That was such a strange thing because, I think it gave all of us pause

who were going on this trip, we're like, this is crazy. Oh, we don't care, he's in a dress. I mean, if anyone's gonna say it, you know what I mean? And gays don't take Catholics seriously either, you know what I mean? And gays don't take Catholics seriously either, you know what I mean? It's like, it's enough, you know? When you were a kid and like your dad was like really scary

and then you like reached 13 or 14, you're like, oh, you have no power here, be gone! You know, it's a little like that with Catholicism. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Also, half the priests are gay. Right. You know what I mean?

It's like, we don't allow gays here. I'm like, you're in a dress. Also, you know, I just, I don't know. They have to, I think the struggle with the Catholic Church right now is that institutionally, it's like working with a rotary phone and everyone else is on an iPhone. You know?

And they're like, well, we have a speaker attached to it. Like, this is not, you know what I mean? Like, you gotta step your pussy up just a bit. There's small changes if they made, I think it would feel a little more open. Because the problem is, is like, you know, especially with something of the Catholic Church, like even then shifting over to like English,

you know, in the 1960s. Oh, trust me. That was... My mom grew up on a pre-Vatican II Latin Mass. Wasn't even in English. Because that's how you keep a large group of people confused and afraid. You know? If they don't know what you're saying, then sure. That's great.

So, yeah. Straight to stage. I'm stealing all of this. Take it, I don't give a shit. I mean this is like, no, you're, cause you're hitting the nail on the head, cause it's like, even my mom, who went to Latin Mass, super Catholic from Buffalo, New York, I go, mom, what do you think I should say to the pope if I'm able to talk to him?

She goes, can we have a women priest? Come on! And it's like, they're not even close to that. Close, it's not even on the list of. And then even when you talk to people who are in the universe, they go, a lot of the Catholic churches around the world, they actually want a pope who's more conservative.

Yeah, I think what happens is when, I think because they were so in power for so long, and so I think when you start to lose that sense of power, I think instead of updating, I think that some people, you either update and move to the modern day or you kind of revert. And I think a lot of people tend to revert because they sort of like, well, this is what we have to,

you know, it's almost like when Lutherism came around, what did the Catholics do? They made all these, you know, paintings about how you're going to hell unless you're Catholic. Right. Right. And so it was like, they didn't try and update to compete with Lutherism. They were like, it instilled more fear.

Right. All those El Greco paintings, you know, all this propaganda from the Catholic Church, you know? So like the shift in tone with Catholicism was less storytelling, it was more like punishment. And so even then they were reverting back using fear. Well, it's funny, because I say compared to other popes, and I bring up Pope Benedict IX, he murdered people.

It's 11th century, he's like, he murdered people, he sold the papacy, and then he married his cousin. And I go, so compared to that guy, Pope Francis is great, but. Sure. And then I brought up that last night, and then this historian came up to me, this guy Fred, who's friends with Noam,

and he pointed out to me, he was like, because we're talking about the history of the Pope, and he goes, well a bunch of them were Nazis. And I go, right. And he goes, he goes literally Nazis. I go, oh, right, because Italy was on that side. Yeah, I think that, you know, look, I am tiptoeing. I am tiptoeing on, but I think that's the problem.

I think if the Catholic Church wanted to update itself to 2024, the first thing that it has to do is just kind of say what it is. Yeah. You have to just say what's going on and then we can move from there. That's a great way to think about it. Yeah, and also the hats, the dresses.

The hats and the dresses. When you're in Rome, they have like Pope stores, like Cardinal stores with like the gowns and everything. And I'm such a faggot that out of the corner of my eye, when I see it, I think drag rate Pope. Like that's... Do you understand how fine that line is? So...

The hats and the dresses are outrageous. I mean, it's kind of fun. It's dress up and they're blowing smoke. It's like a Lady Gaga concert. Why not? But also we had this wonderful guide at Sistine Chapel in all of Rome. We're gonna talk to you about the painting.

Now, no photo. Allora, it is the painting there. Look at the muscle back. Michelangelo, he have somebody coming. No photo. Now you look there. We have her here today. And that'd be great.

But those are all the guides in Italy. They're holding something. Oh yeah, it's always a sign. In such an Italian way, all the guides are skip the line. Skip the line guides. I did it. And it's just like, oh, it's all a fucking hoax. Like the whole thing is corrupt. And then all the other people are not skipping the line?

They're going in the line? That's right. It feels so, the skip the line thing, people, if they don't know what I'm talking about, this is a real thing in Rome. You buy a ticket to skip the line, waiting for the, to see the church part, they skip you straight to the museum part.

And you literally walk around people. Yeah. It's not even a fake, it's not even, there's nothing legal about it. Like I'm sure that there's a wink and a nod to the cops or something like that because it's so weird. They don't care, they're smoking. Right?

Everyone's on a lunch break or smoking or. So I said to the guy at one point, because there's so much Jesus imagery all over, and I was just like, at one point I was like, was he here? Also, it's enough. You know what I mean? Like, I got it.

I get the story. Like, at some point, like, it's a little bit like Lisa Trager had an old joke, like, how many years of Batman are we gonna go through? Like, it's true. It's like, at what point can I go into church? I'm like, got it. You know what I mean?

Like, but it's this constant like, oh God. I mean, I like going in the old churches in Rome though to see like Caravaggio's. A lot of those paintings you see in museums, you find very boring, but they were actually meant to be in the church. And it has a whole different meaning when it's in the church because it's built around this one painting.

Whereas you see in a museum just up against other paintings sort of loses the, it loses context, you know? That makes sense, yeah. When you go to the little churches in Rome, it actually in some ways is more impressive and the museum just up against other paintings sort of loses context, you know? That makes sense, yeah. When you go to the little churches in Rome, it actually in some ways is more impressive and beautiful than when you go to the Sistine Chapel, which is just kind of like overwhelming.

Yeah, it's like going to a Cheesecake Factory or a mom and pop shop on Second Avenue, you know what I mean? Like, it's totally different. I feel that, I don't want your listeners to think I'm knocking on religion. I find it hysterical and hypocritical and it's kind of hard to avoid it to protect other people's feelings, but I'm not.

Here's how I put it on stage, to not hurt anyone's feelings. I do call Jesus a faggot in my specials, so I don't know why I'm acting like. Yeah, but here's how I always disclaim it, which is I disrespect all religions equally. Any ideology that has a billion people, I'm concerned. Of course, I'm concerned about the fact

that I even own an iPhone. I mean, you know, and I tend to talk about religion through my perspective, you know what I mean? Because I feel more comfortable always talking about things that I just experienced myself. But there's so much good stuff to like pull from. I'm a huge Christopher Hitchens fan. And his last book,

God Is Not Great Religion Poisons Everything is such an eye-opener about just religion. You write about a lot of stuff, wrong about a lot of stuff. Yeah, but that's what was fascinating about him is sometimes people, you don't have to always agree with them to still take interest into what they're doing. You know, like I love Fran Lebowitz.

I don't agree with everything that Fran Lebowitz says, but I think she's phenomenal. I think that's, to make it at some point, you have to be very specific and believe how you feel. And those are those people. I find it more fascinating to watch someone so headstrong, because I don't feel that headstrong about how they feel. It's so funny you should say that.

That's exactly what I always say. You know, we were talking about different comedians headstrong, because I don't feel that headstrong, about how they feel. It's so funny you should say that. That's exactly what I always say. You know, we were talking about different comedians who are provocative in different ways. I always feel like what I'm offended by in comedy is when I don't believe the person. I hate when comics use two different voices. They talk one way on stage, they get off stage, they're different. I thought, what's that about? You know, I find that to be disturbing. I like, yeah, I like, I like to your point, Friendly, but it's just like, I like big personalities and I'm, because I don't have to agree with it.

I'm comfortable in my own skin enough. I don't agree with everything in The Wizard of Oz. I can watch the movie and say, I like this part and I don't like that part. It doesn't mean that I am like Mega Man and I've absorbed its power and I am that thing now. I think, you know, there's a very, it's a very fine line of things, supporting things,

and them having actual bad messaging and watching things just out of curiosity. I think we've, not the whole world's not so black and white. It's a very gray world. But the Olive Garden is bad. Yeah, the Olive Garden is. They haven't done anything about it over the years. Because we've been making fun of it for a long time.

One of my first jokes was, I'm not real Italian, I'm Olive Garden Italian. And that was like 2002. Have you ever watched the old Olive Garden commercials? It's insane. They get this big Guinea family, right? And everyone's around like passing stuff, and he's like,

listen, my cousin Vinny, I brought him here from Italy. Ciao, buongiorno. I said, we gotta get the fuck in Italy. Get the meatballs, it's coming, it's coming, it's in Italia. And then they're like, when you hit, you're family. And the Italians were more offended by that than the godfather. About a murderous family.

They were more offended by the Olive Garden. And I agree. That should be a bit. Have you done that as a bit? I have not. Should I write that down? Let me write that down. This is Comedians Lives. Can we write that down? Yeah, no, I think that that's really, really funny. Really funny. that's great.

And also partly honestly because you just do all the voices. I really envy that about you, it's like you sing, you do jokes, you do stories, you do the voices. It's like the same reason I love Maria Bamford. She goes into the voice and she comes out of the voice and I'm like, oh my God, I love this. I forget that I like do voice, people are like, oh I like your voices and I don't think of myself as a voice person, but I'm like, oh my God, I love this. I forget that I like do voices. People are like, oh I like your voices

and I don't think of myself as a voice person, but I'm like, oh yeah, I guess you're right. The voice, the best impression I do is Liza Minnelli. Yeah? I haven't figured out how to put her in my act. What's, can you do it? Of course. Oh my God, it's so like, if I'm talking to Liza Minnelli

and I said, Liza, I'm so surprised you came to my comedy podcast today. Well, it was so fun, because I was at home. I'll never forget the first thing my mother said to me. She said, Liza, call an ambulance. Oh my God, that's too good. I know all of her stories. I'm obsessed, yeah.

When I was a kid, other kids collected stamps and cards. I collected lyrics. Oh my God. What does that even mean? You collected lyrics, now stop it. I'm obsessed with her. You used to do that.

Well I look just like her, so I don't need any drag. So you're saying you're trying to figure out just how to do that as a bit. Yeah, because it's so its own thing. I used to do this jazz show with Henry Capuris, who's a great musician, and we did it years at Joe's Pub. And that was more appropriate, because before I would sing

like Eliza Manelli's song, I would do all my impressions of her on the Home Shopping Network and stuff like that. But in actual stand-up, to really dig into an stuff like that. But in actual stand-up, to really dig into an impression like that feels stunted. I guess my question would be, can you sing like her also? Because I would say you could open with it, you could close with it. Like the same way in your advice special, you close with Ave Maria. It's like you can- The mic went down, so perfect. Yeah, so funny.

You can pivot into a song and then do the bits interstitially in it. Yeah. It feels more one man show though. Really? I don't know. I feel like people love that about your stuff is that it has a lot of surprises. You might be right.

Things go where they go. Yeah. And also- I guess it's one of those things too where it's like, you're right, I'll just have to fit, I might not be there yet. But you are right. I should put it in.

You've got to put it on stage and just, like we were saying earlier, see what the audience likes about it and lean towards that because, I mean, it's so funny. And it's also like, it's also what do you love? And it's like, do you love? and going, hi. I should try it. Even talking about my family is, I find quite difficult because it's so close to me. I'll try it out. push it.

So the final thing we do is working out for a cause. If there's an organization you like to donate to, we will donate and then link to them in the show notes and encourage people to donate as well. There's a bunch. Howard Brown Center in Chicago is really good for young queer youth in Chicago and also just like education. Howard Brown Center. So we'll link to them in the show notes and contribute. And Matteo, this has been pure joy. in Chicago and also just like education.

So we'll link to them in the show notes and contribute. And Matteo, this has been pure joy. All people listening, see Matteo in your city. Oh yes, I'm on tour, the Can't Stop Talking tour. I've seen you so many times as a seller and the audiences go nuts and I go nuts and it's been a joy to have you. Oh, thank you. Oh, God. Working it out, cause it's not done. Working it out, cause there's no one.

That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Mateo Lane on Instagram, at Mateo Lane. He's touring all over the country like I said. Tickets at Matteolanecomedy.com. The full video of this episode is on our YouTube channel at Mike Birbiglia. You may notice we are sitting in different seats from one another. I've never sat on that side. So it's really a completely different orientation because he side. So it's really a completely different orientation because he said that the other side was his better side. And so I sat on the other side. It was an interesting experiment. Check out Briggs.com to sign up for the mailing list. Be the first to know about upcoming shows.

We are, again, we're about to announce, I don't know if this is giving too much away, but I'm about to announce a New York City show in March. We're about to announce, hopefully, some stuff in Iowa and some stuff in California in the early part of the year. So I'm super excited about that. Sign up for the mailing list. Our producers of Working Out Are Myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Bregoli, and Mabel Lewis, Associate Producer, Gary Simons, Sound Mix by Kate Bolinski, special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music, special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. Her book, Little Astronaut,

currently has an audiobook available where audiobooks are available. Special thanks as always to our daughter Una who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcast. Maybe you never reviewed a show on there. It's really easy. We're almost at 4,000 reviews. It's very exciting. We've come a long way in this four and a half years. If you are new to the podcast and enjoyed it, you know, we've done about almost 150 episodes. One of the things you could do is you can just say in the comments which one's your favorite? And maybe that will help people who've never listened to the podcast find a way in Quinta Brunson, Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, so many amazing folks and comment on Apple podcasts,

which is your favorite? Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. Let's say you're meeting the Pope. You know, just hypothetical. Some random situation where you end up meeting the Pope and the Pope isn't necessarily your enemy, but a complicated figure in your life. Someone you have complicated, complex feelings about.

When you go to meet the Pope, even though you don't speak the same language, you don't speak Italian or Spanish, really. You can pull out your phone and go, hell, hello. His holiness, you know, between services, if you have some downtime, why don't you just try this podcast, go working it out. It's hosted by a lapsed Catholic named Mike Pribilio. You met him, you wouldn't remember. And he works out jokes with other comedians. And I think the Pope might bless you for that podcast recommendation. Thanks for listening, everybody.

We're gonna keep working it out. We'll see you next time.