Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 163. Josh Johnson: Reinventing the Modern Comedy Special

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

Comedian Josh Johnson is a writer and correspondent for The Daily Show and his stand-up sets have millions of views on YouTube. Josh talks with Mike about cultivating a fan base via the YouTube videos, why he thinks chasing success in the comedy industry is sometimes antithetical to the art form, and shares the advice he got from Trevor Noah. Plus, Josh helps Mike work out a new story about animals living in Mike's walls.Please consider donating to Feeding America

You have this joke about how where you say COVID killed millions of people, but somehow everyone I owed money to lived. Oh, yeah. Who do you owe money to? We've settled the debts now. Okay. We're in a much better place. But at the time of taping, I was like, man.

That is the voice of the great Josh Johnson. We have a great episode in store for you today. That is the voice of the great Josh Johnson. We have a great episode in store for you today. This is actually one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. I've been accused of saying that before, but I will say it was definitely one of these episodes where we came out of it and we're just like, oh, yeah, that's exactly what the show is meant to be. Josh is a brilliant comedian.

He is a natural storyteller. He's a natural sort of comedy writer. He wrote for The Daily Show for many, many years. He's been a correspondent on The Daily Show. He has an extensive library of his own little YouTube comedy specials, which are just fantastic. I mean, there's so many of them.

You gotta go over to his YouTube channel and check it out. So I'm really thrilled about this episode today. Thank you to everyone who came out to my show, The Good Life at the Beacon Theater in New York. It was a culmination of two years of touring, maybe my favorite show I've ever done. I'm actually doing one encore show. I'll be announcing soon at Largo in Los Angeles

on April 14th. Go to Berbigs.com and sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about that because that will go very quickly. I love this chat with Josh Johnson today. I just love this episode. We talk about craft. We talk about probably the thing I'm most fascinated about is just how prolific he is

and this innovation he had, which was just to film all of his sets and just sort of put them into the world. And I just think it's completely fascinating and completely original approach to this whole thing. And we could have talked for four hours. So enjoy my conversation with the great Josh Johnson. -♪ Ooh, ooh, working it. The thing that I find so astounding about your career is that it's like a thing we talk about on this show all the time. Like we get all these questions.

How do you start and you know, how do you break in and all this stuff? And I think you're a quintessential example of, you started and you finished. It's like you figured out how to create an act in 20 minutes and an hour, and then also you filmed it and also you released it. You basically cut out every middleman that there is in show business. And there's only a few people who've done that.

Like I remember talking to Alana and Abby from Broad City and like there's a few people who've done it and that's kind of it. I'm just curious, how did you start doing that? I had always been writing a lot and then a good friend of mine was like, you should do topical stuff since you already write so much stuff. Because I think he had told me that he hadn't seen me do the same set

and he had seen me like eight or 10 times in the course of like a couple of months. But it was always like a couple months, but it was always like, you know, some of them were mics and some of them were shows. So it's like, yeah, I've always written a lot and I've always like tried to think a thing out quickly and then write it out quickly and stuff, but then applying it to topical was the first time

that I was like, oh yeah, there will be finally a place for all this stuff to go. Because what I had been doing before I started posting it online was just sort of like doing the joke for a week or a month and then just like moving on outside of my opener and closer. So like opener and closer would stay the same because they were my favorite two jokes. And then everything else would just like move around from there.

And so then when we decided to start putting it out, I was just going up at the seller, and then the seller's kind enough to like tape the set and then give it to you. So then I was like, I was just taking that tape, and then the only real pressure was that because the seller's taking the tape of your performance and giving it to you, I really had to just like get it in one.

Yes, that's right. So then getting it in one became what felt like the real like free flowing, conscious, joke to joke to joke to story to joke. And then once I started booking some more dates on the road, because I had started doing this during the writer's strike. So I wasn't like working at Daily Show at the time and I wasn't on the road as much because things were like fine, but not great.

And then when I finally started getting some bookings, I was like, well, let's try to keep to that thing. Like, can we get it in one? And so there would come times where you had two or three shows in a night and so it's like three chances and then you're like, okay, I think the middle one went best and so you still just put it up that way. And then I also, I think it's a product of being

a little bit annoying that I have a lot of feelings and thoughts on everything. And I think that I finally found a way to channel it that is not annoying in real time, if that makes sense. So it's like now I don't have to burden my girlfriend and my friends with this like long series of things that I think are funny about something, but still if they don't care about the thing,

then we were already off to a bad start. I think comedians, significant others everywhere will relate to this part of it. Yeah, it's like at least uploading to YouTube gives my girlfriend some relief of me just talking all the time. That could substitute for therapy. I suppose so, yeah.

Yeah, for couples therapy. I mean, yeah, because it is interesting. You have this uncanny skill of being able to just go and go and go. And so few comics have that. I mean, I wonder if there's like a correlation with it and being an only child, because that could maybe help.

You think so? I think that like everything I do on YouTube is what I used to do to my mom. Yeah, I mean, it's like. That's how they invented YouTube. Yeah, it was just me. It was originally kind of excess spillover from your mom.

100%. So then it would just be me going. That's what Bo Burnham's early videos were all about. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. No, I just, I would, I would just go on and on and on. And then like, I could also, before I ever really thought about comedy

in that way necessarily, I like making my mom laugh. But I would like, I would see where my mom, as like gracious as she is and was at the time, to this little kid who could just go on and on forever, I would see the dip. I'd see where I started bombing with my mom. I've told my friends this before. They know of like, sometimes I would be talking

with my mom and she'd be like, oh yeah. And it's like, once you get one of those, it's like, all right, you gotta, there needs to be a turn. You gotta pick it up, you gotta get it, there's gotta be a surprise. Where's the twist? Where's the punch line? Where's the turn?

Yeah, you gotta bring it home now. Once you get a, that's only a parent's love too. That is so good. You know? That's exactly right. I mean, but it is a really unique skill because most comedians, you watch and you go, okay, there's the joke, there's the joke,

there's the joke, and you just have a flow on stage. You just keep going. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I feel like there's, I don't know, I think there's always a grass is greener aspect to doing comedy, because I see other people and I'm like, oh man, sometimes I wish I thought like that. Like I'm still glad that I'm me. When everything is said and done,

I like doing comedy the way that I do it because it's how I process things. But then you'll see someone who's just like so sharp and punchy. And sometimes I'm like, oh, I should, I wonder if I should do more of that or like, I wish I thought that way. And then, you know, you, you come back to yourself and you're like, all right, I enjoy the way that I think like it's not like pure wishing I was like someone else.

But I think that it's worked out in that way that I'm doing something that isn't as normally done. So there's like, you know, at least for the time being some appetite for it, which is nice because I feel like when I was just doing these things, but not topical and not recording, it was like no one noticed it, if that makes sense.

No, totally. I mean, I think it's astonishing and like a great example for a lot of creatives listening to this show. And like, I always say like, there are things that you can make that in that years ago, 10 years ago would cost 10, 20, $30,000. That now costs like $500 in terms of like camera technology and videoing things on iPhones and stuff like that.

Like you're basically putting out fully produced comedy specials every few weeks or so. And they look as good as anything in my opinion. Sure, I mean, I think it's also the, I really believe in everyone's burden, that's a creative, to make the thing that's on their mind. Yeah, yeah. And I think that I look at it as,

I've seen people who are incredible painters, incredible at whatever their art is, and they lose a little bit of their time with second guessing themselves and trying to make it perfect or whatever. When you have to remember for people who don't draw at all, the drawing is amazing. And maybe if you're doing it to try to impress people

who draw like you and you're trying to be a bit sharper or like you're playing to the back of the room essentially, then yeah, I could see getting like a bit in your head to the point where you don't release, but I just don't think in a world of noise, anybody is going to be particularly critical of like your chatter to the point that you shouldn't put it out there.

I think that's very smart. Yeah, I think I think because so much of what is made is is bad in general that like you made a bad thing if you make a bad thing. Yeah, I don't know until I know how the show went for the people there. Yeah, I don't know how it'll go for YouTube until I put it on YouTube. So I can't stress myself out too much about how it will be received on YouTube

because job number one, which was making the people who came to the show part of an experience and making sure they had a good time is like done. So it's like, if you did job number one, then everything else is like extra. Everything else is like this extra blessing that you get. But at the same time, if I feel like,

whether I put stuff out or don't put stuff out, I don't know what general impact that has on the world, but I do know that me not putting it out while feeling like it was a really good thing and not putting it out for some fear of some unknown is not gonna serve anybody. It's not gonna serve the people who inevitably, seemingly at least wanted to see it

because whatever video did well, it's also not helping me because it's like letting me sort of live in this general fear of like what people might think, even though I already have some confirmation from the people who I did it for that they liked it. So it would only be me letting a louder insecurity trump a reality that I've already witnessed.

And so then you just put stuff out and you get better and you put stuff out and you get better. And then you build on that sort of confidence with a level of competence that you know what you're doing and you won't always get it right. I mean, I tell people all the time, like I think sometimes it's easy when people are on the way up to like look at them like a stock, right?

I think in industry, both audience and reps, look at us as stocks. Yeah, for sure. And on the way, while a stock is up, it can only go up. You can only go up, you're going up and you're gonna go up forever. And then at the first sign of a dip, people are like, oh, I'm selling, I'm getting out, I'm done.

And then you pop up again and the people who stuck with you who never sold were like, oh, yeah, yeah, it may go down a little bit, but it's always going to go up. It's going to be perfect all the time. And so you see that like ebb and flow. That ebb and flow for us is like our work. The ebb and flow for everybody else is the results of our work.

And the results of your work are not up to you. So like, I don't know how people will receive me 10 years from now. I don't know if anyone will still like me 10 years from now. But I know that if I stay on this path, I'll be making better work 10 years from now. If I like, if I stay focused on it, and it may not even be better by the standards of opinion,

but I think it'll be better because I'll know what I've already done, I'll know the sort of pitfalls of doing that again, and I'll be making that sort of path for myself. And when you're creating from that place, sometimes I wish I was five, 10 years younger again, just to take what I know now, that old thing. But I would not trade knowing what I know.

I wouldn't just go into a time machine and go back 10 years ago and be a little younger again, without the knowledge of what I have now. I would just make all the same mistakes or make worse ones or whatever. That's like a classic, a tell joke. He's like, I wish I could have sex with the person I lost my virginity to.

I'd be like, ah, look at me now. Look who's not crying. Yeah. But like, I think what you're bringing up is a really salient point for a lot of people listening to the show, because a lot of times we get questions like, how do you get an agent?

How do you get a manager? And it's like, I think your point is really pertinent, which is it doesn't really matter weirdly, because if your stock goes down, those people jump ship. I mean, yeah. Like, what's crazy is this thing? And I don't want to, you know, look, I like my agents a lot, but also, like, if things,

if I weren't creating this podcast, creating my shows and creating my own thing, like, they wouldn't be getting back to me that much, if at all. Or worse, if you snap. If you snap, if a person loses their mind, Yes. One thing that, like,

Which never happens to show business. Yeah, right? Like, one thing that like- Which never happens in show business. Yeah, right? Like one thing that reps are not are like mental healthcare providers. Exactly. So it's like, if you snap and you go, you know, if you go on some talk show and have an absolutely viral moment that is bad, that will not necessarily be covered

by whatever relationships you already have. And who knows, maybe your stock goes down a little bit. Totally. that will not necessarily be covered by whatever relationships you already have. And who knows, maybe your stock goes down a little bit. Totally, but I think what it comes back to is like, to your analogy of the stock market, you're the company or you're the startup actually is probably the more apropos analogy of it. And you ultimately have to create.

Yeah, you have to create. You have to create all the time. The problem I find with like, for a lot of creatives who are getting started, sometimes, just because of the landscape of what creation looks like now, it gets set on a path that is a bit unfortunate, and it's a path that has like no joy in it.

Because the advice you'll get from someone who's like four years into comedy, if you just started comedy, will be like, all right, you gotta go up and you gotta do your open mics and stuff like that, but make sure you bring your camera. But anyone who's been doing standup for like more than four or five years knows that no one should know

what your first year of comedy looked like at all. Unless you're making a long-term project of, like if you were making a project that was like that Ethan Hawke one. Yeah, sure, boyhood. Yeah, if you're making boyhood and you're like, look, I believe in myself, I believe that I'm gonna make something of myself

and make a living doing stand-up comedy. So I'm gonna document the entire thing to be an inspiration for people who haven't started yet. Maybe people who aren't even born yet. I'm gonna record year one all the way to year 25, right? Cause I'm that certain I'm gonna stick with it that long. Now we're talking about something. But if you're just trying to like go viral

while also not having enough time to fulfill a contract when you do get booked somewhere, like there are places that are like, no, you didn't do your time, we're not paying you. What are you talking about? We hired you to do an hour and you did 25 minutes of rambling and then you left. Why won't we pay you?

What's wrong with you? This sounds specific, this example. Oh, luckily not me, but it's a true thing. If you want to get started with any art, you get focused on what it is you want to make and what brings you joy about making it. Obviously everyone's going to focus on the most successful versions of the people in their field,

because that is what works and that is what is great, at least from a popularity perspective. I think though, I saw this really great take on it one time which was when you start something, you are focused on the best in that field because those are your heroes. So then you become incredibly critical of your work because you're comparing it to the work

of like the greatest people. So you're very down on yourself. Then you start to make better work and it may still not be equal to the work of your heroes, but it's about equal to the work of your peers that started when you started. Then you get even further along and you have potentially another dip

because you're like, okay Now we're fighting with the comparison of like my hero was ten years into comedy when they made the special that sure that made me Want to do comedy and now I'm ten years in and it's like what is that? Yeah, does that mean if I can't make my Sistine Chapel of comedy or whatever and so then at after, if you get out of that third dip, which is like a really hard one, because that happens when you're like a decade into something, you get past that dip.

And now you finally recognize that like all these heroes that you looked up to the entire time were just like people making work. And so then it doesn't like level yourself with them in your head, but it does create a bit of a safety net of understanding for yourself, where you can be like, oh, George Carlin,

one of the goats was also just a guy that had ideas that bombed sometimes. And like, and it took him a year to develop this joke that made me feel like comedy was the highest form of expression. So it wasn't like he was so brilliant, it just spilled out of his mouth and he was that good. He was that good eventually.

And so it's like that, if you can make it to that space, I think it's almost impossible to be there in your mind and not be making great work, even if that work isn't like greatly recognized. I think that's a great point. When I'm watching your stuff, I'm like, Josh is definitely in the running to be one of the goats, if not the goat in comedy when I'm watching.

I feel like, man, if you could say that a decade from now and not right now, I feel like if you get, if you get- No, no, I'm not saying it now. I'm saying I see it. I need you to shit on me. Cause like, this is what happens though. This is what happens, people get excited. This is the stock that I'm talking about.

People get excited and they're like, Nvidia is never coming down. It's never coming down. And then Trump is like 250% tariffs on a little bit of, and now people are like, forget NVIDIA. Josh Johnson's at 4.5. Yeah, yeah, it's like, oh no. No, no, but I really see it,

because when I'm watching yourself, I'm just like, you're, I think, more prolific than anyone working, and I think the proof is in the pudding, it's all on YouTube. And I think you're as funny as almost any comic I know. And so then if you become more prolific and as funny or funnier than everybody,

then you are the best, that is the best. Yeah, I think if everything stays the way that it is right now, I'll be in a good spot because right now I feel like most of the people that I watch that I enjoy are like funnier than me and most of the people that I watch and enjoy are better at They have a better level of like focus than I do by the way in my algorithm showed up a video from you which was Kendrick versus Drake explained to white people. Yeah, yeah.

Why was it served to me? You know, I think that sometimes the algorithm doesn't know how down someone really is. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean. That's what I keep telling all my black friends, and I have so many of them. It has no idea how many people you've dapped up.

It has no idea of the groups you've been jumped into. It doesn't get the subtlety. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Mike, one day, our people. Mike, one day. Oh God. Yeah, so I got to say, that's a great one. Oh, thanks.

Andrew Drake explained to white people. It is. And it does explain it, by the way. And I've read a lot. I listen to the Daily episode about it, everything. I mean, I can... And that was probably the best explanation. Thank you, thank you.

I can tell from you saying that you read a lot about it that I was like, oh, man, there might have been some bits you were missing, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You toured with Trevor Noah for a bunch of years. Did he ever give advice to you on stand-up or anything that was helpful? Yeah, yeah. So he told me, like, whether it's the act out or whether it's like the point you're making or whether like, no matter what it is to always still bring that like that energy and that level of fun, do you know what I mean?

Like, I think that sometimes if someone has a point to make even if a joke is coming and they seem far too, they just seem like they're not joking. It's not gonna be received well, even just seem like they're not joking. It's not going to be received well, even if the point is not the joke. Like you may be making a bunch of points and then facilitating them through jokes to create an arc and bring everyone to an overall conclusion.

That happening still within that in between jokes, you still have to remind people that they're at a show. You still have to, yeah, I mean, I think it would be, I think it would be a misstep to be like, I'm gonna seem like we're not doing the show right now. Well, you worked for The Daily Show as a writer before you were on camera for like four or five years?

Oh. A bunch of years. It was like... Yeah, like seven years as a writer. Wow. So you were the writer there. Mm-hmm. And you know that you'd be good on camera. Mmm, that's very kind.

You ever like, hey, so you know who'd be good at saying these words I wrote? You know, I feel like... Maybe someone like, you know, like what? I also feel like the timing has to work out. And I think that when you rush things, you can put yourself in a position that is like... That's not necessarily for you to shine as much as like doing things at the right time. So I think that, for instance, I'll give you a great example.

Like when it came to the Communist Central half hour, I felt like I was ready for it the year before I got it. And I was like, you know, understandably kind of upset because it was back when a different era before clips, before all this, like before social kicked off in that way, that there were only so many opportunities and there were really distinct and structured funnels

to make your way through to start getting a pass and start getting what felt like to the next level. And this still happens, the internet has opened it up in a lot of people's minds. So like young creatives or new creatives can really sharpen whatever path they want towards whoever they want to be like or whatever they find interesting.

But as recently as like 2015, so like just, you know, so like just, you just go back 10 years ago, there was a world where you get your JFL new faces, you get your Comedy Central half hour, you do your late night, you do, all these things that almost seem like you can or you can't like take it or leave it things used to be everything. Yeah. You know, like the way, like take it or leave it things, used to be everything.

Like the way that Chicago, the Facebook group would pop off when the JFL callbacks went out. Oh yeah. And just the, it was civil war for a week. Yeah, the dynamic of show business, and this brings us back to sort of what I think you're bringing to the table in an original way to comedy,

is the dynamic of the comedy climbing the stairs of the comedy field right now has completely turned on its head. Yeah. It used to be, you try to get new face, you try to work open mics, then you try to get new faces, then you try to get on talk show. Now it's like, forget all that.

And he's like, literally, you could do open mics, you could do, you could, Bo Burnham, make shorts in your basement, and they blow up. They could do what you do, they video every set, and put on your best sets on YouTube, and then you blow up. It's like, it's so upside down, in I think the best way. Sure, yeah, I mean, I think that like,

when I look back at that half hour, I didn't get it the year that I really wanted it, and that I really felt like I was good enough for it or whatever, and that was one of the first years where I had to accept, and don't get me wrong, looking back, I was only like maybe three or so years into comedy or whatever. So it was one of those things where I was like,

I also had to take a step back and be like, once they came out, it changed everything. So the crop that I wanted to be a part of, the people who got the half hour that year, I watched all of them and I was like, ah, this is very good. This is very good. Jesus is very good. And then it started to, then it-

Who was in there? Drew Michael was in there. Maybe Lisa Trager was in there. But like I knew some New York people that got it, some Chicago people that got it and everything, LA people that got it. And I watched all of them. And there wasn't a single one where I was like,

oh, this person, I feel like my set was stronger than theirs or whatever. I felt like my set was really strong, but it was the first time I really accepted for myself this thing that people always tell you when you start out in something or when you're doing something of how subjective everything is

about how you can't take anything like, you can't take things personally and you can't expect people to like get you when you feel ready. It's like everything happens in its time. So taking all that back to your question about like being on camera at Daily Show or not, I was like, that's a lesson I learned a long time ago

that I've taken with me ever since then. Because I look back at that time and being like, okay, if I got it when I wanted it, you can play coulda, shoulda, woulda, but like would I have been kind of meh versus when I did get it, which was the next year, and I felt like I was like, oh man, this is it. This is like, and then, and it was only better

and it was different as well, but it was like, you know, I don't even know what happened to the jokes that were in the first tape, but like the tape that I made after that, I was like, this is it. And then I got it as well. And then it went out and then I got messaged by people saying like it was their favorite one or saying whatever.

And I was like, I think everything happens on time. And that's not just because I got it. There are some things I never got. And I'm like, fair enough. Like the crop that you picked for that were incredible people. So it's like the internet has opened people's minds up to the fact that like every path is not for you.

And you also don't want everything. Some things you just want because other people have them and you don't know what to want next. Yeah, because at one time you wanted them, but you've changed actually. Because that's what New Faces was for a lot of people. It's like you would think that New Faces was like, you die and go to heaven the way people got so mad

if they didn't get a callback or if they didn't get it. Like, people were ready to go to war. Like, people wanted, and in Chicago, there's not that many industry opportunities at this time. Yeah. So New Faces was one of the only things coming through town. Yeah. And so people were ready to kill.

And then you look back at it and you're like, all right, you go to Montreal for like anywhere from a week to three days. Yeah. You do two showcases. You hope people are there. If you already have an agent or a manager, you don't need it as much.

And it's not what it was when they were doing JFL Aspen, where it's like people would leave with like development deals or, you know, the stories that you hear, though that already wasn't happening by the time we hit 2012. I feel like people in show business are, would rather find out from you what you're doing, than you find out what they're doing.

Yeah, yeah. That's how I feel how sophisticated your operation is right now. They want to get nine million views on their YouTube shows. But that's what I mean. It's like, I think that if you don't know what to want next, you're just going to want what someone else has. And if you do know what you want,

then everything else sort of doesn't matter. Well, when I look at you, I'm like, I don't even know what you want, what you could want that you don't have. Is there anything that you're striving for, big picture? Yeah, I mean, I wanna have the best, these are all of my most selfish id things that are all of my like most selfish like id like things that are like all ego, right?

Like bassist ego. It's like I want to have the best catalog ever. I want to be remembered as like the best writer ever. And then I want to be able to look back and be like I made all of this art with all these different people as well. Like and be like, I made all of this art with all these different people as well. Like, you know, I have plans for like music to come out. I have plans for like all these other things that I wanna be doing. And so I think it's really just like the ability to create.

I wanna have more of free flowing as well. So it's like, with that's gonna mean I need to have more capital or more collaborators. So there's definitely stuff that I want, but there's no like thing. You have Timothy Chalamet-esque aspirations. I guess so, yeah. Cause it's like- Did you see the speech?

I saw some of it where he's like, I'm chasing greatness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, I wanna be like Kobe. I wanna think about it like that. And it's like- But I liked that speech. Yeah, no, yeah. It's like, I want to be like Kobe. I want to think about it like that. And it's like... But I like that speech. Yeah, no, I thought... People make jokes about it.

I was like, no, no, I like that he's honest about it. And it's also something you can only get for yourself as well. Because anything that I want that someone else has to give me, I'll be like chasing for the rest of my life, even after I get it. So like, if you want, if I say, I want a Grammy for best comedy album, right?

There's no practical way to chase that thing within art. You're just going to keep making your art and they're either going to give it to you or they won't give it to you. And then there's going to be people that are like, you didn't give them, that's crazy. That's crazy you didn't give them. But it's either going to happen or it's not going to happen because it's not up to you.

So if you make your passion and the thing you're chasing, winning a Grammy for best comedy album, but you know all of the politics and everything that goes into it as well, what are you doing? Whereas if you keep making stuff that you feel like you could comfortably say, I think this could win, like when I look at who's in the category, I think this is as good as what's in there. And you just know that to yourself quietly as well. You're not even making noise about it.

You're just like, I'm really proud of what I did. I think it's up there with all the people that are nominated. And maybe you get nominated, maybe you don't, maybe you win, maybe you don't. But like chasing greatness is is such a personal aspiration that you know on your deathbed that you did it or not. Everything else is kind of like, people have to give it to you. Right.

You know? Even when people come to me and they're like, how do I write for late night? I really want to write for late night. I'm like, you could be the best writer in the world, but if you're not at the right place, the right time, and there aren't job openings, then it won't happen. Yeah.

This is called a slow round. Who are you jealous of? Jealous of, okay. There's, some people have already heard this story, but there was a time where I ran into a guy at a party who was also named Josh Johnson. And he was gorgeous and he was much taller than me. And at one point at the party,

I'm pretty sure unprovoked, this dude was talking about like science, like he was talking about some theory and spinning a basketball. And I was like, I was like, I gotta kill him. I've never wanted anyone dead the way I want this dude dead. I was like, I was like, so I was, I was seething with red. It was Shakespearean the level that I hate at this dude.

This was like, this was- That's some Globetrotter shit right there. And also it's not like he was talking about physics. He was talking about a totally different scientific theory while he was spinning the basketball, because he just didn't have his mind on enough things at once. And so I just, man, I hated that dude. And he was like jacked as well, but not in a gross way.

Because you know how some people are so jacked, it's like, oh, you went too far, and now women actually don't like it, because you're like sculpted in a way that looks like steroid-y, like your skin's all tight. It was a steroid level. He was not that, he was like, he was draped just enough within his clothes

that you knew he was jacked. Like a nice Oxford shirt, but he's like kind of busted out of it. And I was like, why couldn't your name be Derek? I need one of these things to not be happening. So yeah, yeah, very jealous of him. That's great. What's the best piece of advice

someone's giving you that you used? To be as patient as you are persistent. I think that with patience, you can get yourself to a place where it's okay if you don't do it today or if you don't start or if you don't, because things take time. But then persistence can also make you impatient because you're just putting in the work every day and that level of consistency should yield results, whether you're working out or you're working on your career or you're working on your relationship or something. But I think if you're equal parts persistent and patient,

then that's like a recipe for success eventually, but you'll be ready for eventually because you're patient. This is the working it out section where we talk through premises or ideas. I had one today, which was, and again, a lot of this is just half-baked stuff where I don't have a punchline yet. Our super came downstairs and Jenny, my wife had called the super

and because there were animals in the walls and he got there and I didn't know he was coming. And then I was like, let me put my wife on speaker. I remember putting on speaker. Jim, what was like, let me put my wife on speaker. I put on speaker and go, Jim, what was the thing you're asking John Paul about? And she goes, there's animals above our bedroom. I go, okay, like in the ceiling? And she said, yeah.

And then she goes, and there might be animals above Una's ceiling or that was in my dream. And I was like, we can't really be on speakerphone with that kind of take. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think. You can say that to your husband, but you can't say that to the super.

Yeah, I mean, so do you think that in making the joke, are you trying to express one specific thing? Are you trying to express how comfortable y'all are with your super? No, no, no, no. This is actually a good exercise. I'm trying to express that sometimes, occasionally my wife, whom I love so much,

will say something where I'm like, I thought we were on the same page that we would never say to a total stranger what might have happened in our dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a- We gotta go with hard facts. We got like a professional over.

Yeah. We gotta tell them where the animals are. Yeah. Or where the animals aren't. Or lie. Even just be like, there's animals everywhere. But we can't be like, maybe in my dream. I think there's something very funny about the idea

that there are things that are confined to a relationship that you would never imagine doing outside of it. For most people, it's sex. Right. That's funny. But for me, it's things that we know when said out loud should be secrets. And as much as I love my wife, she tells her secrets to people besides me. This is really strong. And it makes me as uncomfortable

as if she just started making out with a. As if she was saying her sexual secrets, yes, of course. It's like, no, not in front of him. Not in front of the super, not in front of Jean Paul. This is one of the worst threesomes you can have. Yeah, that's right. Is sharing what might have been a dream, but is actually,

because now he needs to hear it just so that we don't lose all credibility. And I made eyes with him just kind of like, uh, you know what I mean? Like, well, so. You as the guy there have to now be like, this is the first time she's saying that dream part. This is the first time she's saying that dream part. This is the first time she's saying that dream part.

Just so you know, because when I tell you right now that I wouldn't have called you if I thought it was the dream. This is the first time she said the dream part. The first time she said the dream part. I wouldn't have called you if it was the dream thing. I want you to know, because now you completely separate from Jenny as Mike have to fight for your credibility.

So now you have to stand there and be like, listen, listen, look, I know we call you for all sorts of things, but if she had said that dream part earlier, I would have told her to go back to sleep, see if she hear it again, right? And then while she was asleep, I would listen for her. I want you to know there's protocols before we call you. There's whole things that we're supposed to do.

I just want you to know how much I respect you. I respect what you do. I want you to know there's protocols before we call you. There's whole things that we're supposed to do. I just want you to know how much I respect you. I respect what you do. I want you to know that in our marriage, we have a contract. And that contract is if something is a dream, we don't take it outside until we're sure. We don't tell the strangers about the dreams. Until we're positive.

Because when I tell you that if you leave here, if you leave here and I hear something out of the wall or the ceiling, I'm just going to assume I'm in inception. Because I don't even know if I'm awake right now. Maybe we're both in my wife's dream. And then the other, okay, so the other thing I had on this run potentially is the other night,

my wife said to me, the free, the pipes are going to freeze unless we shut off the water in the basement. Let's go down into the basement. And I was like, oh my God. And I go, okay, I'm ready to go down to the basement. And she goes, I'm afraid of the basement. And that's when I realized that let's go in the basement means I need you to go in the basement.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think. Hey, hey, hey. Yeah, that's all the basement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think. Yeah, that's all I have, yeah, yeah. I think, I think she tells you, let's go in the basement, the way that you would like say to the police, like, let's go in the basement. That's right, that's right. That's nice to bring it to the next.

This is wholly your thing. That's right. That's nice to bring it to the next- This is wholly your thing. That's right. You know? And is she scared of the basement for a specific reason? No, I think claustrophobia, she has claustrophobia. I think generally like dark space, afraid of animals, bugs, et cetera. It's also very funny if you have all those things.

If you- Claustrophobia. Like if she knows that you have all the things that make her scare the basement, but she was like, oh, I meant you. When I said let, I mean, let you yourself. I mean, let you yourself. That's what the contraction is.

That's what the contraction meant. Yeah, yeah. That's very funny. And so then you go down there, cause now I'm interested as someone listening to you, what it's like for you down there, because now I'm interested as someone listening to you, what it's like for you down there, not just knowing that you might be scared

of some of the same things she's scared of, but also now that you have to be alone. Yeah, paint a picture of that basement. Yeah, because there's something very funny about her telling you, we need to go down to the basement, pipes are going to freeze. Oh, okay.

The time in between you said the last thing, can you say that part again in the beginning? Yeah, so she says, let's go down to the basement, pipes are gonna freeze. Oh, okay. The time in between you said the last thing, can you say that part again in the beginning? Yeah, so she says, let's go down to the basement. And then I go, okay, I'm ready to go down to the basement. And she goes, I'm afraid of the basement. So right there, when you're like, the time between she says it and then you say you're ready, I feel like that's a great time

to insert everything that is like- I'm feeling. Everything that you're feeling because you don't want to go in the basement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then you finally mustered up your courage and you've been betrayed. Yeah, that's right.

Because it's like, I never met you down in the basement. That's right. And then the payoff is stronger potentially. Yeah, and then you go down there and then like something happens, something doesn't happen. But then it's also very funny to me if you get back up from the basement after this hero's journey, this odyssey,

to let the water flow so the pipes don't burst, so you don't have to go down to a wet, dark basement, and you get up there and she's asleep. That's really funny. So she wasn't even waiting for you. The way that Odysseus' wife was waiting for him to come back from this, you know what I mean? Everyone thought he was dead.

And she was like, no, my man is coming back to me. Yeah, yeah. And then you're- All of that basement mythology. Your wife sent you down to the basement and they was like, you know what I could go for? A nap. Yeah, yeah.

And then, you know. And then I had this the other day. I was on a trip and I had a creek in my neck. I had slept on it wrong. And I went to the gym and they gave me, at the hotel they gave me a foam roller so I could roll out my neck and my back. I'm on the elevator and this lady walks on

and she goes, what's wrong? Because I had the foam roller. What's the foam roller for? A stranger. I go, oh, I have a little creak in my neck. And she goes, you want Oxy? I swear to God. I go, no.

Like Oxycontin. I was like, no. She goes, you have Oxy? I go, no. She goes, you want Oxy? I go, no. She goes, you have Oxy? And then we get to her floor.

She goes, she walks out and she goes, I have Oxy. I was like, this is the craziest conference. This is the craziest drug deal I've ever been in by accident. Because it's the first drug deal I've ever heard where I can't tell if the deal is from or to. That's great. Like I've never heard someone offer me something then ask me if I had the thing they were offering.

Cause that's a bad sales person. That's a bad sales person. But I'll pitch you this, I do think that in this scenario, the poor attempt at drug dealing was the only time somebody was really trying to help you because the pillow obviously hurt you because you woke up with a crook in your neck.

The person at the gym, spa, whatever, also didn't help you because foam rollers hurt. True. And so the only person to offer you relief is a stranger in an elevator. That's like, hey, you, and it's like, doesn't have the oxy on them in the moment because that's an amateur move.

That's an average, anybody who knows anything about drug dealing knows you don't deal the drugs and have the drugs on you. What if you're a cop? What if you're a cop? What if you're a cop going up there being like, oh, oh, my neck. Oh no, I would love some illicit Oxy. So this person has to be careful.

And so now they're asking you, hey, do you want Oxy? You say no, all right, but that sometimes is cold for not yet. Do you have Oxy? No, okay, so they definitely want Oxy, all right? Cause if you don't have it, you must want it. And if you don't want it, you don't want it yet. And that is what we call like real, real business,

not taking no for an answer, always be closing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. I mean? And so I think that there is a thing too, where if there's any point, like let's say this becomes a callback later on from another story where you're also staying in this hotel either again or later in your trip,

that like, you know what floor they got off at. So now if you have any reason to go that floor You're probably gonna pass their room sure and even if you don't want oxy You may need their help because the only person you know on that floor. Yeah, that's a good. That's a good point Yeah, I mean so it's like now you have a friend in the hotel It makes me think it ties in a lot to this whole other run of jokes I have about my broken shoulder many years ago. So it could tie into that. Yeah, because now you're not just gonna randomly

get on Oxy, right? But how often do you get an offer in an elevator while rolling your neck? There's a book called The Secret. Yeah. And sometimes the law of attraction, you're sitting there rolling your neck. And it's not that, by the way, the oxy at least works.

I've been told to roll things that hurt and then they just hurt more. And then maybe they got better, but I don't know if the rolling, the jury's still out for me on rolling, and I'm no expert, but like that to me is like, we know Oxy does something. I think it was her way of saying,

let's go in the basement. Yeah, yeah. Are you more afraid of the basement or her hotel room? I think her hotel room. You know? Cause her hotel room might have all the same aspects as the basement. I would be completely terrified to go to a aspects as the basement. I would be completely terrified

to go to a stranger's hotel room. I would be like, no, I'm fully out on this. Yeah, I mean, a stranger's hotel room with Oxy, it's a wonderland. Yeah. Yeah. The last thing we do is called Working Out For A Cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to support?

Yeah, Feeding America. Oh, Feeding America. It's a great organization we've given to them before. We will contribute to them again. We will link to them in the show notes. Josh Johnson, amazing to see you and, I don't know, Future Goat. That's very kind. We'll see.

I could still snap. Anything could happen. Working it out, cause it's not done. Working it out, cause there's no... That's gonna do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Josh Johnson on Instagram and on YouTube at JoshJohnsonComedy. The full video of this episode is on our YouTube channel at Mike Birbiglia.

Check it out, subscribe. We will be posting more and more videos. Go to birbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia, and Mabel Lewis, associate producer Gary Simon, sound mix by Ben Cruz, supervising engineer Kate Belinsky,

special thanks to Jack Anzaloff and Bleachers for their music, special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J-Hope Stein, and our daughter Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy this, go to Apple Podcasts and just give us a few stars and rate us and review us and say which episode you enjoyed

the most, the Ben Stiller and Adam Scott episode or the Tignit Taro or the Joe Firestone. We've had over 160 episodes since 2020. Check out our back catalog and comment on Apple Podcast where you think folks should start. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies. Let's say your enemies are the animals that are living in your ceiling above your bedroom that may or may not be in your dream. Maybe what you could do is you could play Mike Bibigliet's Working It Out podcast very loudly for the animals and the sonic explosion will make the animals not even want to live there anymore or it'll make them fall asleep and then they won't run around as much. All right we're working it out. See you next time

everybody.