Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 167. Jessica Kirson: She's the Man

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

After decades of being a beloved comedian’s comedian Jessica Kirson has broken out in the last few years with viral crowd work videos and a brilliant new special on Hulu called “I’m The Man.” Mike and Jessica dig deep into the nuts and bolts and emotional work of being a stand-up comic, including overcoming stage fright and dealing with hecklers. Jessica breaks down the difference between her on stage and off stage personas, and recalls her childhood which was spent listening in, with her stepbrother Zach Braff, on her therapist mother’s sessions. Plus, Mike has an awkward experience in a steam room and Jessica tells the story of when she put a heckler up against a wall.Please consider donating to The Children's Heart Foundation

This guy supposedly had been heckling some comics and he was sitting in the front row. And so I had heard he was like a problem, you know, buff, like, financial guy from Connecticut, white. And... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big problem. Yeah.

A jacked-up white. Don't get me started, Jess. Even whiter than you. That is the voice of the great Jessica Kersen. I have been wanting to talk to Jessica Kersen on this podcast since the beginning. She is a comedian's comedian. She is so funny, wildly popular on Instagram, thanks to her crowd work videos. We talked about that on this episode. She's one of the few comedians who does that really well and brings artwork to that form

She's a new special on Hulu. That is hilarious. It is called. I'm the man. It is so funny So we have a great chat today I mentioned this last week, but my new special is called the good life Which we filmed at the Beacon Theatre in New York City a few weeks ago. It will be on Netflix May 26th. Mark your calendars, Monday, May 26th. I'm so happy with how it turned out. I think it might be the best one. I'll leave that to you to judge.

Thank you to everyone who has come out to that tour over the last two years that's had different names, Please Stop the Ride, as well as The Good Life. Check that out on Netflix May 26th. In the meantime, this summer, I'm lucky enough to be joining John Mulaney on some of his tour dates. August 9th, I'll be in Portland, Maine

at the Cross Insurance Arena. It's me, Nick Kroll, and Fred Armisen opening up for John Mulaney or being special guests on the John Mulaney show. Then August 10th at Garrison Grounds in Halifax. That's also Mulaney headlining me, Kroll, Fred Armisen, and finally September 13th Stanley Park in Vancouver. I should point out that's not gonna be my full hour of comedy. I'll probably do, I think me, Nick, and Fred

will all end up doing probably about 20 minutes on those shows. And then John will probably do an hour. And it's gonna be some great shows. I mean, that's one of the coolest lineups I've ever been on. You can get tickets for all of those at burbigs.com. Love this chat with Jessica Kersen.

We talk about dealing with hecklers. She tells a wild story about one time when she understandably lost it on a very mean heckler. We talk about her family growing up. Her mother was a therapist who saw clients in their house. Her stepbrother is of course Zach Braff, who was a guest on this podcast about six months ago. Check out that episode.

That's a really good one about filmmaking. We have a great conversation today. I think you're gonna love this one. Enjoy my chat with the great Jessica Kersen. ["Working It Out"] Jess Kersen, your special is so funny. Thank you, Mike. It's a riot.

It just feels alive. Yeah. And you're just crushing. is so funny. Thank you, Mike. It's a riot. It just feels alive. Yeah. And you're just crushing. It's awesome. Thank you. I've always been conscious of putting on a show. You know what I mean? Like really entertaining people. I also don't think people have a good,

obviously have a good attention span anymore. And my brain is insane. So I'm just, you know. Yes. Well, it's interesting. It's like, you're one of the people, and it's like, we all lament, because you have kids too, but it's like, we all lament what social media has done in nightmarish ways.

It's horrible. But then, weirdly, like, for certain comedians, it's great. And you're one of those comedians. I always bring you up, because I'm always like, all of us comedians, you know, Jim Gaffigan, and like, everyone, all the New York clubs in your clubs for years is like Jess Kersen is one of the funniest people on the planet. Oh, thank you.

But the industry wasn't giving you a show or whatever. And then social media, you're one of the people, the algorithm made your comedy reach the people who wanted your comedy. And it's so exciting. I love that you're saying that because I was never ever handed things. Like it took forever for me to get on premium blend on Comedy Central, like years,

which was the first TV show I did. Me too. And right, and then I, like I couldn't ever get a special. So Bill Burr produced both my specials. Oh wow, that's really cool. He produced Comedy Central and this one, Executive produced. And like, they just, it's like,

the fans have always gotten me. The comics have always gotten me, like you. Comics think you're brilliant. But I haven't needed the industry as much. I mean, I've always worked and I have some stuff going on now, but it's like, it should have taken half the time. And I'm okay with it, but it is what it is now, but it's like, it should have taken half the time.

And I'm okay with it, but it is what it is. It's kind of like, it's the good thing about social media, which is like the audience decides. Right. The audience doesn't lie on social media and your clips have just blown up and it's just been very, yeah, it's so satisfying to watch.

So, it's funny, we were just talking about, I had done a corporate event yesterday, which are hard. They're very hard. They're very hard, because, and I enjoy doing them, but I will say, there's this great Brian Regan line that he said once in an interview about how the job of a comedian is to turn a group of people into an audience.

Yes. And that's what's hard about corporate shows, because when you're in a comedy club, lights and drinks and everyone's focused on the stage, but you're in a conference room. When you're in a bathroom, it's very hard to make people laugh. When you're placed in someone's kitchen, it's hard to make people laugh. When you're in someone's kitchen, when you're placed in someone's kitchen,

it's hard to make people laugh. Yeah. And so like, but you and I have done a lot of corporate events over the years. Oh my God, yeah. And then Jen said, my wife said to me yesterday, she goes, you know, when Una gets old enough, she's like, I'll come to some of the corporate events with you, like as an act of solidarity.

Yeah, you're like, you'll divorce me. Exactly. If you come to, yeah. I was like, don't, no, no, I don't want you to, I don't want you to see me this way. I don't want you to see me suffer. Yeah, yeah. But then you were saying that you've done, wait, is it, were you saying synagogue shows or? I've done every, I mean, I'm like a comedy whore.

Like, you know what I'm saying, like you. I mean, we started, we did laundromats and everything. Bars and... Oh, God. I think people sometimes think we're exaggerating when we say we did laundromats. We did laundromats. Yeah, you, me, Dimitri Martin, like a bunch of people. Yeah, yeah, Gaffigan's done laundromats.

Yeah, Gaffigan used to do... Gaffigan's a great example. He plays arenas now. He used to do laundromats. He kills in laundromats. Ha-ha-ha! But weirdly, like, that's how you get now. He used to do laundromats. He kills in laundromats. Ha ha ha! But weirdly, that's how you get good. Of course, because it's horror. It's like, yeah.

But no, I've done so many corporate events and people will be like, how do you do a clean hour? I'm like, I learned how to do it. Like I do, I do, you know, orthodox shows. Yeah, orthodox Jewish shows. Yeah, and they're not easy, not easy at all. Because first of all, there's kids there most of the time and they're just running around

and throwing like chocolate at me. I just stand there like hoping to catch it. And they're like, you suck. And I'm like, oh my God. It's a lot. But I've had so many experiences at these orthodox shows, or just shows for old people, not even Jewish. They're just, they all, I always say this, they look at you like this. Just judging you.

Winscing and squinting and judging all simultaneously. When I say I killed, I mean like someone died. And this is amazing. I have so many stories, but one time a woman just had her head down the whole time in the front row, and I'm like, either she's sound asleep or dead. Like I just was like, whatever, it's fine. If she's dead, then she fell like she went peacefully, because her head was just down.

And then in the middle of the show, she just raised her face like this, and she goes, you're all over the place. Oh my God. You're all over the place. Oh my God, I had one the other day, so Nikki Glaser did The Beacon, and I did a spot on one of the shows one night.

And sometimes you do someone else's show, and they just want to see the person they came for, which makes sense. Guy in the front row. This is makes sense. Guy in the front row, this is so crazy, guy in the front row, kind of like half passed out, and everyone's passing it. During my set, during my set. Of course, I'm screaming on stage and they're like.

And like half passed out, and then he wakes up and he looks at me and he points at me. And then he does thumbs down. Yeah, this happens. And then he goes back to sleep. It was the most perverse heckle I've ever seen. Do you think he thought he was somewhere else? I do.

He might have. I think there was a disassociation occurring. Yeah, I think he was doing it to his father. Yeah, I've gotten, I mean, I've gotten, I wrap it up. That's when someone did that to me. I almost killed it. I'm not kidding, I freaked out. Did you ever lose it?

I lose it like one to two times a year. Normally I don't, like you could be on your phone. I'm like, ugh, whatever, I'm not even, I can't. But once or twice a year, I lose it. What's the worst you ever lost it? Oh, this is a great story. I don't even think I've ever told this on a podcast before, yeah.

I was at the Comedy Cellar and I was very burnt out. Like I was on the road for weeks. And this guy supposedly had been heckling some comics and he was sitting in the front row in the Fab Lab, which is a tiny room. Everyone can see each other. One of the comic seller rooms was small. Right, 60 people.

And so I had heard he was like a problem, buff financial guy from Connecticut, white. Yeah, white, yeah, yeah. Big problem. Yeah. A jacked up white. Don't get me started, Jess. Even whiter than you.

And he was sitting there with his girlfriend and they were very attractive. And I went up, it was the last comic, and they got up to leave, like the minute I went up. So I was like, oh, I'm sorry you guys have to go. Like everyone saw them leave. And I'm like, hopefully you're going to have sex. You're both very attractive.

And he's like, yeah, whatever. And then they left. And then he comes back in the room. He walks back in during my set and he goes, by the way, your hair is fucking disgusting. Oh God, what a weird thing to say. I lost it. Oh my God.

I swear, did you ever swear? Oh yeah. Something happened in my brain and I was like, oh, like I got silent and then he left the room and the audience was like, and I said, I couldn't believe I did this. I'm like, excuse me for one second. And I put the mic in the stand

and I walked off the stage quietly and walked back into that curtain area. It's a tiny area where people pay in between the two rooms. And he was standing there with his girlfriend and the security guys who are enormous. You know what I mean? Like the guys who have the cellar.

I couldn't believe it. I took him and I pushed him against the wall by his neck. He was huge. And I said, don't you ever. I know you're freaking out. This is a crazy thing. And I said, he was looking at me like I was in, he was in shock and I wasn't. And I said, don't you ever me like I was in, he was in shock and I wasn't.

And I said, don't you ever fucking talk to me like that again. And so the whole crowd heard me cause there's only a curtain. And I'm like, you fucking hate women. Any man that would say what you just said to me hates women. I'm like, what did your mother do to you? Oh my God.

And then I looked at her and I go, if you talk to me, a stranger like that, you must be the most abusive fucking boyfriend. Like I wasn't screaming. I was literally just like talking to him as if he needed, I was like, you need help. You need to go talk to someone because, and the security guys were dying laughing.

You know, they're like seven feet tall. They were screaming laughing that I did that in front of him. Oh my God. And then I took my hand off his shirt and I went back. I don't get physical with people, but I lost it. And I went back on the stage and I go, okay. And they stood up and gave me a standing ovation. Oh my God.

The people in the audience. And I just went into my set. I'm like, I'm sorry I just did that, but I snapped. That is so crazy. It reminded me of what I grew up with. My dad was amazing and the funniest person I've ever known, but he had a temper problem. Oh yeah.

And he said a lot of stuff that was not okay. Oh, me too. Really? Yeah, it was very bad. My new special I talk about a lot. Oh, I can't wait to see that so I can cry. But he was like, he was difficult in that way. So I snapped.

Yeah, I feel like I had more of those earlier in my career because it's like, there's, what you're describing is interesting of someone saying something that's just like cold and mean. It's mean, I'm like. And you're on stage. And so it's like, we're not equipped for that.

No, we're not. No one is trained for that. And we're not okay, I mean, I'm not. No, no, totally. No, I mean, that's the funny thing about like, you know, you and I are friends from the comedy cellar through the years and it's like, people always say, or some people say like Seinfeld, who my revere

is always like, you know, there's crazy people in every profession, comedians are no crazier, whatever. It's like, let's walk that back a little bit. I don't think accountants are as crazy as comedians. Yeah, I think it's a pretty... I think it's a little bit of a broken profession. Like, if you sit at that table, you sit at the table full of comedians with six comedians for an hour,

you'd be like, you might have reevaluated that statement. I say if you see the table at the Comedy Cellar with comedians, it's like the shared area in a mental institution. It's like therapy. Like someone's just talking to themselves, someone's crying, someone's like, ha area in a mental institution. Like someone's just talking to themselves, someone's crying, someone's like, ha ha ha. People are shouting at each other. There's a political debate that's fierce.

I can't do it anymore. Oh God. All of us comedians, we think of you as a comedian's comedian, which is a term people use because you're fearless, or you seem to be fearless. I'm not fearless. But yeah, so what is the fear? Like when you're on stage or when you were starting out,

what was the actual fear? Well, first of all, I'd never performed before, so I was panicked. I was throwing up before my first performance. Oh really? Yeah, I was really not okay. I was freaking out. Wow.

And. I threw up after one of mine first ones too. You did? On the sidewalk at a strip mall in Virginia. Oh, this is getting worse and worse. Fat Tuesdays in Virginia is opening for this guy. Literally everything you're saying is making it worse, Fat Tuesday.

It was like a one night, it's not a comedy, it's like a one night a week, they have comedy, there's a PA system, you know. And they're like, you know, I'm supposed to do 30 minutes and I know that I don't have it. Right, of course. And they go, Mike, you're on. And I have 10 minutes probably of comedy.

That's happened to me. Yeah. And then. You're like, you know when you're, yeah. Which makes it worse, by the way. The slowing down of comedy is the great death of comedy. The thing that you're gonna buy yourself more minutes of comedy with slowing down is the great fallacy.

So then I threw up on the sidewalk and then I walked on. And then the comedian I opened for apparently has told this story often to this very day. That's his new act. or apparently has told this story often to this very day. Yeah, that's his new act. Yeah. So, but you threw up the first time. I was panicked about performing for a long,

and I still, you know, I go through a really weird experience now because I'll go on stage in front of a thousand people in the theater and I disassociate. I can't take it in. I can't, my ego cannot take the whole thing in. It's like people in the theater. And I disassociate. I can't take it in. I can't, my ego cannot take the whole thing in. It's like, it's a job. And I'm there, but I'm not there.

This is honestly the truth because it's so overwhelming to me. Like when I get off sometimes, I'm like, what just happened? Why am I standing in front of a thousand people? Like, what happened to me? I was just like this girl from Jersey. I never expected any of this. I never thought any of this would happen.

I really didn't. That's interesting. And so it's very overwhelming. And I actually, I need more of an ego and I need to be less, a little less humble because I have to literally like force myself to stand there. I, in my mind, I'm like, stay here for, just stay here, take it in because it's a lot for me. It's interesting, because that is one thing that I,

when I was doing that corporate event yesterday and I'm talking on stage about how my wife is an introvert. And then the guy, this guy says to me afterwards, he goes, oh, you're saying your wife's an introvert, but a lot of people say comedians are introverts. And I this guy says to me afterwards, he goes, oh, you said your wife's an introvert, but a lot of people say comedians are introverts. And I was like, it's true. But in an introvert-introvert relationship, someone has to be the extrovert or else you'll just never leave the house. Right? Like that's the whole thing. But as a comedian, it's this odd thing because

people expect, because you're on stage talking, when you get off stage, they think the party continues. With me, yeah. And it totally doesn't. No, it doesn't. Like I'm so awkward when I'm not on stage. I have a theory which is that,

some of the reason why introverts end up on stage is because when we're in groups of people and we're telling a story or a joke, everyone just interrupts you. That's true. Right? You'll be like, yeah, one time I was fishing, and they'll be like, I have a story about when I was fishing.

You're like, no, no, no. But I, yeah. Yeah, and you're like, no, no, no, I'm telling a story. But I think that comedy is an attempt to take control of that sometimes. I agree, I don't know how you grew up, but I just was silent. Like with my friends, I was on and I was joking

and I was the class clown. But at home, everyone was so, like so much that I just shut down. Because you're a big family? It's not, we're big in personality. Yeah. Like everyone is, like I used to say, the women in my family when I was a kid,

it was like hurricanes coming in, like tornadoes. They're just powerful women. And you know, it was like, this is okay, not in a bad way, but everyone, I felt that everyone was controlling and I just shut down. So then you were kind of holding a lot of stuff in. So then once you did comedy, it was like an explosion. Right. And I feel like I'm in control now.

Like, I have power. When I'm on stage, I feel very powerful. When I'm off stage, I feel like a mess. Yes. That's usually when I see you. When you and I see each other at the club, it's usually, we're both a little bit of a mess. Yeah, of course. It is.

But we should be. This is a crazy business. It's nuts. Yeah, and it's a crazy world, no less. So then when you would throw up at the beginning of your career. When I was bulimic? Oh, God.

Jesus. Sorry. When you were throwing up from fear of going on stage, what were you afraid would happen? Everything. I mean, I'm a fearful person. I've always been filled with fear. You're gonna fall down, you're gonna bump. Everything, oh, on stage?

Oh, I was mostly afraid of what people would say to me because I, you know, with the verbal abuse, I was really afraid. I felt very scared. And I was heckled a lot in the beginning and I wasn't funny enough to make it funny. So it became this argument like bad. Were you out when you started?

No. So people didn't know you were a lesbian. No, I purposely, this was my decision and it should be anyone's decision. But again, back then, I mean, this is a long time ago. Yeah, of course. We've been doing it for a very long time. There wasn't a ton of out comedians. No, there weren't.

And I looked at what a lot of people did, like, oh my God, Wanda and Ellen, and this one and that one. Yeah, Ellen, Rosie, yeah, yeah, on and on and on. Rosie. Kathleen Madigan. Right, they got big, and then they did it. And once I had, once we had my first daughter,

I'm like, I can't, like I have to be okay with this and be open and free. And I don't want her to ever feel like it's a bad thing. Yeah, of course. Yeah, so I came out. But I've been doing gay shows for years. By the way, I also wanted, I didn't want to be seen as a lesbian comic

because I'm not. I'm a comic who happens to be a lesbian. So that's, you get, you know, I would be called that if I had started that way. Yeah, and also there's a lot of like just gay comic shows and all that kind of stuff, but you wanted to be just in the ensemble of just comedians. Yes, which, yeah.

Do you figure jokes out on stage? And then what's the process? You go home, you listen, you transcribe? I come up with an idea, and then I usually, I mean, I write jokes for it, but I usually go up and then just like improv other stuff. That's what I did last night. And then I write that stuff down, and then I write jokes for it, but I usually go up and then just like improv other stuff. That's what I did last night. And then I write that stuff down

and then I keep building on it. So it's, because a lot of times, as you know, you'll write stuff and you're like, this is hilarious. And then when you say it, it's like, this is not, there's nothing funny about it. There's nothing worse than that feeling. It's horrible. The laughter in your head at the joke.

It's the worst. I'm imagining people loving you. Dying, you're like, this is so clever. This is going to kill. They're going to love me. And then they're like. Oh, my life is going to change. Right. But then what about the ones that you go up and it kills from the start?

That is heaven. Oh, nothing like drugs. Yeah, exactly. It's drugs. It is. Yeah. It's drugs. It is. It's great. Your mother's a therapist and used to see clients in the house growing up. What was the oddest patient you remember growing up that she had?

This is so, I've thought many times and I've been asked to do a one woman show about my situation with my mother. Because we lived in Jersey. We lived in a house where she saw clients in the basement and it was insane. It was insane. Like you interviewed Zach, Zach Braff, my step brother. And so we would listen to the clients. Jesus Christ.

We would like- You're literally, Jess, you're describing, as a patient of therapy, you're describing my biggest nightmare. I know, I know. Well, now there's sound machines and there's, yeah. Sound machines. Yeah, like there's all different things.

Well, most therapists use sound machines. Oh really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, mine uses a loudspeaker, so the whole town can hear it. It's broadcast at Lowe's. Lowe's, yeah, because I'm a lesbian. Do you think of your profession as a comic analogous to your mom's job as a therapist?

100%. Yeah, it feels similar. When I watch you do crowd work, it feels like that. Well, first of all, I went to school to be a social worker for a master's, and I was like, I can do crowd work, it feels like that. Well, first of all, I went to school to be a social worker for a masters. And I was like, I can't do this. It's too upsetting. Like I can't listen to people.

I can't. It's just traumatic. I'm amazed by that people can do that. Yeah. I feel people's energy even when I'm in a store or something. Like I just couldn't. When you're in Lowe's. Yeah.

When I'm in Home Depot or the car shop on the softball field. But I, yeah, that was so hacky. I hate myself. So I- You're doing the voice. Yeah, oh right. You're so hacky.

You're so hacky. You're doing the best you can. Um. It's a podcast. No one will hear it. Yeah, yeah. This isn't a big deal. I do. I've been in therapy since I'm eight years old. Oh, no kidding. Yeah, yeah, this isn't a big deal. Um, I do.

I've been in therapy since I'm eight years old. Oh, no kidding. Yeah, yeah, I was sent very young. And so I'm very, and my mom, yeah, I'm very aware. Plus I had anxious, moody parents. So you learn how to like deal with people and deal with situations. Well, what would you, what at eight years old

led your parents to put you in therapy? It was my mom. Well, what at eight years old led your parents to put you in therapy? It was my mom. Oh, your mom. Because she was like very into therapy and therapists. And so I was right in there. I had a relationship with my mother and then I had a relationship with her with therapy stuff.

I would guess she loves your comedy. She loves it. Yeah. That's the kind of person guess she loves your comedy. She loves it. Yeah. That's the kind of person who would love your comedy. My parents, they don't dislike my comedy, they're just not into it. Really? Yeah, yeah, for real.

Because you're so brilliant. It's nice for you to say, but I don't think they disrespect me. It's more just like, it's not their thing. I mean, yeah. Who do they like, Carrot Top? They love Carrot Top, yeah, yeah. Earthquake, Carrot Top? They love Carrot Top, yeah, yeah. Earthquake, I mean who?

They love Carrot Top and Earthquake. And yeah, they have a lot of bootleg Bernie Mac alphabets. Oh my god, that's amazing, Bernie Mac, Tracy Morgan. I know there's so many people they're into. No, no, they don't, I don't know. But yeah, they're just, and also I talk about so many personal things. I know, me too. They don't love that. It's like the opposite of my upbringing.

But with your mom, I would guess loves your company. She's the kindest person. She really is. She doesn't have a bad bone in her body. And she really was trying to fix me. She was always trying to fix me. But the thing is, kids, you know, like they need to feel their feelings.

Everyone does. So it's like, there was always like, okay, well let's do eye movement, let's do Reiki. Let's do that. And it's like, no, let me just feel this. So I've done a lot of work on myself to feel. Yeah, yeah, sure. That makes a ton of sense.

to feel. Yeah, yeah, sure. That makes a ton of sense. But yeah, I would imagine she would love your comedy because it's so unfiltered, which is in a lot of ways what a therapist is trying to get someone to be, is unfiltered. It is. Unbottle themselves.

Right. I feel like I can't, I know you're the same. I can't do comedy and not be real and talk about my stuff. Like. You ever say anything where you're shocked by what you've said and you're like, uh oh. Every time. Uh oh.

Uh oh. Every time. You think of one where you're like, uh, I actually probably shouldn't mention that. You mean about my life? Yeah. Or a fear, even a feeling. Yeah, I mean, oh my God, I've talked about,

I've talked about my parents, you know, my dad, or tell a story and the crowd is like, and to me it's funny at this point, like, but it doesn't work, it doesn't get left because they feel bad for me. Like my dad always hit his head against things when he was angry. He didn't hit us,

but he would like slam his head into a cabinet. Oh my God, that's so funny. It's so funny. He would slam his head into a cabinet. Yeah, I'm like, Jesus. And just, I'm like, okay, I won't get a haircut. I'll grow it out. And you were talking about that on stage

and the audience would be like, ee, I feel bad. They're freaking out, of course. Yeah, it's weird. That is definitely a balancing act, I feel like, with comics where when a comic watches another comic, there's no degree of dark that one of us won't laugh at each other about. We laugh hard, and if no one's laughing,

we laugh even harder. But the audiences usually pull you back from that and they're like, wait a minute, that's a bridge too far. Right. Do you have a bit that you've done where it didn't work at first and it ends up being like one of your strongest bits because it's too much?

That I went to Fat Camp. Oh, interesting. I went for four years and for a long time they were like, this is the saddest. So I had to learn how to say it. How did you learn? Because, you know, after doing something for a long time they were like, this is the saddest. So I had to learn how to say it. How did you learn? Because, you know, after doing something for so long, you can tell which parts you need to like soften or fluff.

So I would say, you know, I wanted to go. Right, oh, that's interesting. Like my parents didn't send me, I really wanted to go. And it was a blast, because all the kids were really nice because they hated themselves. So everyone was really. That's so funny.

And it was like, it's a great bit because it's all, there's so many more things I could say though. And I've tried to say, and they just can't go with me. Like we lined up on Saturdays in bathing suits on Hills. It was in the Berkshires in Massachusetts to get weighed. And we got weighed in the, where we ate. Oh my gosh. In the mess hall, which is so sad to people,

but it's so funny to me. Yeah. Like now it's so funny. And I'm sure it's really cathartic for people. Yes. Who had the same experience. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Or people who've had a cattle.

I had that with my sleepwalking. Like when I first talked about jumping through a window sleepwalking, the audience was like, ah. But then as long as you assure them at the beginning that you're okay now, I feel like that was the key. It is the key. Like I'll say, I'm like that was the key. It is the key.

Like I'll say I'm okay talking about this. I feel great about myself now. But like, and I will say sometimes like you can let go. I'm okay with it. And I'm like, if you're not laughing, it's because you hate your own body. Like that's psychological, but it's true. I'm like, you're not that worried about me.

You're really, you have issues with your own stuff. I really believe that. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting how, yeah, I have that with my new show where I'm like, I talk about my dad having a stroke and sometimes it gets quiet. And I'm like, it's my dad.

I literally tell the audience, I go, is my dad? It would be weird if I was talking about your dad. If I was like, this guy's dad had a stroke. It's like the most perverse insult comedy ever. I know about everyone in this audience. Yeah. Your dad suffered a lot. I've done some research.

You go around the room talking about everyone's ailing parents. Do you, I feel like your persona on stage is like you're witty, but also you're tough, but also you're loose, but also you're loose, and you say wild things. Are you ever intimidating to people offstage and you have to like diffuse it? Yes, always. Everyone thinks that I am the way I am on stage,

and that's like a small part of me. I mean, part of why I'm so like that is because I'm so scared and vulnerable. So I'm like an animal that's afraid, you know. Yeah, yeah, they were the bat. Yeah, I'm petrified. Yeah, do you have a trick for diffusing people? You mean on stage?

Off stage, like off stage if people are intimidated by you. Because I feel like when I first met you, I was intimidated by you. I know, whenever people tell me that, I'm like, but I get it. Was there a turning point in your comedy career where you felt like you could be brutally honest about personal things in your life?

Because I feel like when I met you, you weren't talking as much about personal stuff, and I feel like you went into that in the last few years. I always talked about my mom being a therapist. I mean, not in the beginning, beginning, but no, I didn't talk about relationship stuff. Also, now I have kids, so I didn't talk about that. And that's personal.

I mean, not talking about relationship stuff is a lot. I made jokes about like my weight issues or stuff, but they weren't how they are now about what caused them. Yeah. Do people ever, cause you're, people see this in your special, but it's like your show, I would describe as so different from other comedy.

Thank you. Like it's so original. That's really important to me. It's so important. But do you ever have. Like it's so original. That's really important to me. It's so important. But do you ever have people, that's not what they came for. Of course. And they didn't expect it. And have you ever had people complain about you?

Of course. Like what would they, what do the complaints look like? I mean, they're, you know, that I'm vulgar, offensive. Right. I do characters of Jewish people that I grew up with and I've had Jews call me anti-Semitic. Oh right, you do a Jewish grandmother character. What are you talking about?

This is my grandmother. What do you think is, when you're doing a Jewish grandmother, is that your grandmother? Yes. That voice? Yeah. You need to go, like that's my nanny B. That's my nanny B. That's my nanny B.

And I grew up around all of that. People who are just listening to this should watch the special and see the face that you make. You can tort your face into what's probably what your grandmother's face looks like. Yeah, I've been doing faces and voices my entire, I'm talking since I'm a young kid. Oh, since you were a kid.

I was alone a lot, so I would entertain myself. Yeah. And I'd just be in front of the mirror and just be making faces and voices and I was insane. Like, it's cute, but it was, you know, someone walked in, they'd be like, this kid needs help. Yeah, it's so similar, Rachel Feinstein was on the podcast last week and similar.

My best friend. I know you guys are great friends. Both of you just embody the people. Isn't that, she is so brilliant. I can, like when she does her, like grandmother, her mother, and her mom's a therapist. I mean, we have so much in common. Yeah, you have so much in common.

You both do a thing where you embody the character and it feels like, it feels, I mean, I don't know these people, but it feels accurate. Do you try to go for accuracy? I do, I do, because I just feel like if I'm gonna do a character, I can't be half-assed. Like I really need to become the person as much as I can. Like the body things and it's just so much more interesting.

And I got that from watching old comics, like people who did characters, Saturday Night Live stuff. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Who were your biggest influences? I mean, Gilda Radner. Yeah. I loved, she's not a comic, but Lucille Ball,

because her face was so, you know, Carol Burnett show was my, I died laughing at that show. Old Saturday Night Live people. I was more into sketch stuff than standup. I was never, believe it or not, I was never a fan of standup. I'm still not. Yeah, it's interesting how like, I'm still not.

I'm not. I mean, it sounds crazy, but I don't watch, like I'll watch you and like 10 other people, like I'll watch Gaff again, I'll watch people that, I can't watch all these specials. I feel bad saying that, but I just can't do it. What is it that takes you out of it? I wanna know who someone is.

I wanna, it's like, I want to know who you are when you get off stage. I want to know your vulnerabilities, your characteristics. I really do. I don't want to hear you just talk about other people. No, I feel the same way. I also feel like, and I've always, I'm sure you do. I mean, look at what you do.

You're so vulnerable and honest and real. And it's so much harder to talk about your relationships or your parents. I mean, it's easier to just talk about like just random things. But I just don't laugh hard. I always say there's two different comics. There's ones who are givers and there's ones who are takers.

And you can really tell when you watch a stand-up. You can tell the ones that really want to make people laugh, that want to help people, that are doing it mostly selflessly. And then there's ones who it's all about them, it's all about them being, getting, you know, attention. Yeah. And yeah, and I've never laughed at those people ever. Yeah, that makes total sense.

This is a slow round. Is there a song that makes you cry? Hmm. Piano music makes me cry. Like I love George Winston. And when I listen, when I'm having a time, I listen to piano music and I'll just, sometimes I listen to music to make myself cry because I have a hard time crying sometimes. I'm the same way.

You are? Yeah. When I'm built up. I live with movies and music. Yeah. What kind of music do you listen to? I feel like I, what gets me in an emotional state is like the national, the band The National

is very emotional to me. Yes, I get it. Radiohead is very emotional to me. Yeah. But yeah, that piano music, that's really interesting. I had a last night where my daughter, Una was playing ukulele and I was, I'm not very good, but I played guitar like a little bit, and we were just jamming, and it actually brought me so much joy.

I was almost like tears of joy kind of feeling. That's funny you just said that, because I had tears of joy the other day with my kids. Really? Yeah. My daughter, my daughter Madison was like acting out and having a really hard time, and my daughter Isabella like comforted her as her big sister, and was like, do and having a really hard time. And my daughter Isabella like comforted her as her big sister and was like, do you want me to? And like Madison calmed down and I was, I just cried.

Like I was like, this is so beautiful. Like I was so proud of Isabella. There's something about having kids where it makes you understand love and the type of love that you, I think in some ways you're incapable of realizing anyone could have loved you that way. 100%.

And being able to love someone else the way you wish you were loved. Is that what you just said? Yeah. Okay. Or understanding that actually maybe your mother did love you that way kind of thing. Well, when you have kids, obviously everyone says it, Or understanding that that actually, maybe your mother did love you that way kind of thing.

Well, when you have kids, obviously everyone says it, but you really understand what your parents experience. I mean, that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah, one of my bits that I was gonna work out today is, so sweet, I think it was, my daughter has been baking lately because she's watching a lot of baking shows.

She's nine, she's turning 10 this month. We both have a nine year old. Yeah, yeah, and she's so sweet and she's been baking out like cakes and muffins and she, for my special, she baked me two cakes and one was for daddy and one was for Mike Birbiglia. And then my punchline for it was, if I could just get my wife to think of me that way.

That is so funny. Isn't that great? I love that she baked you one for Mike Birbiglia. I know. That is so, kids say and do the great- That's great. Yeah, I do that on stage now. They say things to me that are so,

cause they're so honest. Like Madison the other day was like, mama, you have eyelashes in your nostrils. Oh my God. I'm like, are you kidding me? Eyelashes in your nostrils is phenomenal. Are you a boy? I'm like, why?

Cause you never wear dresses. You know? Oh my God. Yeah. You use the bit that when you and I were starting, we started around the same time, you used to do a thing about maybe like your nephew or your niece and you did the voice and it killed me.

Of the kid? Yeah. Yeah, I always do that voice. I mean, yeah. Well, yeah. When I took my nephew into the bathroom when he was a kid and he's like, you always do that for him. I mean, yeah. Well, yeah, when I took my nephew into the bathroom when he was a kid and he's like, you have a funny looking penis.

I'm like, you should see the one in my drawer. Oh my God. That looks like a menorah. It's intense. So funny. All right, can you remember a time in your life when you were an inauthentic version of yourself? Oh my God, my whole life,

because I just wanted to be liked and I didn't even know who I was. You know, as a kid, I was authentic with my friends. I was talking about this the other day. I have the most amazing friends that I grew up with and they really saved me. You're still close with them. Yes.

So they saw you through the phases of your life. Everything, everything. And they really, like we really grew up together and I was real with them. But I think with everyone else, I wanted to be liked, I wanted to make them laugh. Like if they really got to know me, they wouldn't like me, all that stuff.

What was the phase that you, when you look back, you cringe at? I had a very hard time in my twenties. I was just lost and I had no idea who I was. I was like coming out. I wouldn't accept that I was a lesbian for a very, like everyone else accepted it. Intersting.

And I had a very hard time with it for a long time. I thought there was something wrong with me. I'm not even religious at all. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Yeah, I would never say I'm straight, ever. Like even when I was doing standup and not out, I would never ever say my boyfriend or ever. That's insane. But I would always say that I'm bi

because I also had difficult relationships with women. And I didn't know if I would be with a guy again. Right. You know, I was like, I was with guys in high school, I mean in college, but I was always wasted because I'm sober and I was like in addiction. I was always drunk, so I couldn't have sex with a guy unless I was drunk.

Right. And I never wanted to spend time with them. Like if they wanted to date me, I'm like, oh my God, will you leave? Like I don't, I'm friends with so many guys, but I didn't want to be in relationships with them. Right, you have that great joke in your new special about people coming up to you being like,

you haven't met the right guy. I can change you. Yeah. That's very common. You know what I thought interesting enough? Women don't say that to gay men. Interesting. I need to talk about that because can you imagine a woman being like, I can change you.

You haven't been with the right woman. No. I just don't think that happens a lot. But men do say that to gay women a lot. That's interesting. It's like, what makes you think you can, like you're that special? Right, where does that confidence come from?

What is the most absurd thing you've ever done while drunk? Oh my God. This is not okay. I was very, very, very high. I wasn't drinking. I mean, there's so many things I did when I was drinking, but I was so high and I drove at University of Maryland. Again, I was an addict, so it's not okay.

But I ended up hitting the University of Maryland sign, the sign that you, like when you enter. It's like an 80s movie. I know, water came, no. I hit the huge sign and I was fine and so were my friends, but I got four flat tires. Oh my God. And it was the same.

Were you a student? Yes, I was a freshman. You were a freshman in college and you drove into the college sign? The huge University of Maryland sign. Not even just like a stop sign. I'm talking about the, I went up on a thing. Did the cops show up?

Yes, and it was raining. Did they do breathalyzer and all that? No, you know, it wasn't, I think, because I was like a sorority girl and my friends were in, I, again, it's like something that sounds so horrible, but like we looked okay. Oh God.

And I think they could tell I wasn't drunk. Like I was speaking normally, right? I had smoked like 17 bong heads. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, just crazy things where I, you know, made a fool of myself a lot, but I made people laugh, so. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is the section of the show where we work out material. This is, okay, this is, I just wrote this in my notebook the other day, but when I was filming the special, I was going each night to a gym near the theater

just to go to the steam room and to try to get my voice ready. Cause you know, and so I wasn't clearing my throat. And so I walk into the steam room, I throw water on the steam catcher thing. So there'd be a ton of steam. There's all of a sudden you can't see anything two feet in front of me.

And then I hear a lot of friction. Friction. And then possibly some lube. And then I heard someone say, oh God, yes. And then I left the steam room and I realized I think some people just want different things out of the steam room. They just have different goals.

And I just, this is how I write. I just wrote down a bunch of possible tags for it, which is, it was a good omen for my special. It was a happy ending before an unhappy ending. That's very funny. That's fun. I love it. And then the other tag I wrote is,

I stayed in the steam room and my voice sounds fantastic and I do it for the fans. That's, yeah, that's sort of funny. I love it. Do it for the fans and then. Wow, I gotta go to that steam room. That's a lot. But that's a very male steam room thing. That's not as much a female steam room, right?

No. I mean, if lesbians were in a steam room, they would just be like, do you feel safe if I touch your hair? I just don't want to trigger you if I... How does it feel with your shoulder being cut? Just crying. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't want to trigger you if I... How does it feel with your shoulder being cut? Just crying. No, it's funny. I'd heard about that, of course, from my gay friends for years. I was like, yeah, it's the steamer, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, sure, I believe you. And it was the first time where I was like, oh, wow.

It's funny to picture you in there with the two of them. Oh, gosh. Oh Oh god, yes. I mean, you could really say, even if they're like, come on daddy, and you're like, it's someone's father. Are they having a family reunion? Like you're clueless. Yeah. They're having a family reunion.

Oh, there's a family reunion. Yeah, it feels like a barbecue in here. I'm doing crowd work in the steam rooms. Anyone celebrating a birthday? That's hilarious. Where are you from? All right. So there's that, which is fun, at the steam room story.

And then I thought you'd enjoy this. The older I get, the more I use the phrase one day at a time, and I'm not even in Alcoholics Anonymous. Like everything from Alcoholics Anonymous relates to my life except the alcohol. Do you know that my mom has said that everyone in the world could benefit from the program? Oh, I think it's an amazing program.

It's an amazing program. Yeah, no, I think it is. Yeah. It's impressive. I mean, one minute at a time sometimes. I'm serious. One minute at a time. It's true.

That's the title of this episode. You just named it. You could be going through something and know that it can change in five minutes. It doesn't have to stay that way. By the way, that's a great tag for that bit. One minute at a time. Because a lot of times with a bit, it's like,

okay, the one day at a time is really kind of the joke of it, is that I relate to everything in AA, even though I'm not technically an alcoholic. But it is really breaking down, well, what's the truth underneath that? The truth underneath that. It is kind of every minute at a time, you're going, wait, what? Am I going to be okay? Is everyone going to be okay? Is everyone gonna be okay?

Yeah, we think things through and it's normally negative. Like, we're like, this is gonna happen, then this is gonna, we have no idea what's gonna, you have a child. Yeah, of course. Someone passes away, you end up getting another special. Like, we have no idea what's gonna happen. I woke up at four in the morning this morning, fully awake, wide open.

Typical comedian. Eyes wide open. And then I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do breathing exercises. This is what I do too. And it's like breathing from my diaphragm. And then it's like an hour of this. My body literally is like, nope, no thank you.

No thank you, breathing exercises. Countdown from 500, 500, 499, we're all gonna die. This is so funny. This is this morning. I'm gonna die soon after you're doing the breathing exercises. I know, I really get it. I, it's so, but it is one minute at a time.

Yeah. And like, if I didn't live by one day at a time, I would not be okay. It's a really deep idea. There's also that term, I don't know if you've heard it, but it's a quote and I'm not, I'm spiritual and I believe in a higher power, but it's make plans and God laughs. That's right, my dad always says that to me.

It's so true. Yeah. It's like, we think all these things are gonna happen, and it's not. You wanna make God laugh, tell him your plans. That's the quote, I said it wrong. Or sorry everybody, tell her your plans. It's okay quote, I said it wrong. Or sorry everybody, tell her your plans. It's okay.

Jess, I'm so sorry. It's okay, it's not the same. No, I'm so sorry. It's okay, you just mocked me. Tell her your plans. Do you have any bits that you're working on that are like half baked premises or ideas? Yeah, a lot.

I mean, all that therapy stuff, which is difficult because people feel bad sometimes for me. But like my therapist now, and my mom has always said this about putting a chair in front of me and telling someone the things that I wish I could to an empty chair. Wait, what's the advice? It's like, you're talking to the person that I wish I could, to an empty chair. Wait, what's the advice?

It's like, you're talking to the person as if like say it's an empty chair, but I have to picture like my father sitting there and then me confronting him. This is advice your mom gives you? I've had a lot of therapists give me this advice. Okay. And I've done it at times and it's real, like it's worked.

So you've done that exercise. I've done every other. You put a chair in front, I'll try this. You put the chair in front of you, the person who you wish you had said something to maybe, in my case, probably be my dad, in your case, maybe it's your dad, like you just say that, you say it out loud,

or in your head. Yes, yeah. You can end up screaming and really, there's a bunch of things you can do with that. But anyway, I say like, this is so new, but I'm like, you know, just felt uncomfortable, unfamiliar, so I put things on the chair to make me feel like I put his toupee and his secretary. That's funny.

But also, I just think this is so funny. I actually, when I went to a trauma place, I, rotten fruit. A corned beef sandwich. Yeah, corned beef sandwich, some coins. Coins, a button. I actually was, I went to a trauma place a couple times to deal with trauma, to deal with stuff, work on myself. And I was given a baby, like a fake baby doll

and I was supposed to hold it and picture it, me talking to myself as a baby. Oh wow. And at first I couldn't do it at all. Like I was really like, this is insane. In front of other people in the group, it was very hard for me. But I did end up going there.

I was sobbing. You were sobbing, so it did work. Because I had no relationship with my inner child and I was just like, it's okay, it's not your fault. And then I threw it against the wall and it, yeah, I'm joking. Okay. I threw it against the wall.

And it's in 10 pieces and I keep it in my purse. Yeah, and I keep the head in my purse. That's a good, I mean. and I keep it in my purse. Yeah, and I keep the head in my purse. Ha ha ha! That's a good, I mean. It's all that stuff that's so funny. Yeah. But it's deep. It's deep. And you also have to make people in Oklahoma laugh with it.

No, of course. That's what I always call like joke soil. It's like, that's all that stuff you're describing is like super fertile for jokes. Yeah. Because it's so kind of genuine and intense. And like, I think that, yeah, once you can get the audience to feel like it's okay,

because the holding the baby thing, it's really interesting. It was very uncomfortable. I'm like, I'm not gonna be able to do this. And then let me tell you something. I was like sobbing. I felt so bad from the kid in me who just was petrified and felt alone and scared and had to make people laugh

to get feel like, meaning I felt like I had to do that to get people to like me, which is a gift now. But it was, the other thing I do is- One tag for that is like, you know, so they gave me the baby and I cut it up with scissors and at the end of the show tonight, I'm going to hand out the pieces of the baby and that's why we're here tonight.

Would you like the tongue? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha That's really funny. But it was healing. It was very healing. I feel great. Just hold up a bag of body parts from a doll. My God. Throw them out to people. No, that's great though, I love that. I mean, the other thing that I think might help you, I mean, it's helped me my whole life, but my entire life, my mother told me to write letters to people and not send them.

Have you ever done that? It's amazing. I've done it with emails, I've never done it with letters. Yeah, you actually? It's amazing. I've done it with emails. I've never done it with letters. Yeah, you actually, emails are actually write out a letter and then you end up burning it or burying it. Oh, that's interesting. It sounds like what, but it really,

it's like you're dealing with resentments, it's program stuff too, but you're like getting your resentment out and then letting it go. So I wrote letters to everyone and I read letters the first time I was on Comedy Central, my first TV gig, I read therapeutic letters and it used to be everyone's favorite bit I did.

So I'm working on new letters and this is so many years later, but I'm like, I need to read these letters again. Yeah, I've done it with letters again. Yeah. I did. I've done it with emails over the years. I've got that advice as well, but you got to be careful. Did you send them to people? No, I didn't send them.

Oh, okay. Good. The key to the not sending don't put the two in because sometimes those things can shoot off. And CC five. Send, send, send. Oh shit. I said that one. Write it in a send. Oh shit, I said that one?

Write it in a book. I'm not telling you, but if anyone's listening or watching that has had like major reasons, it does help. Like you just go off. Like 10 pay, it doesn't matter. No, I find. Get it all out. I find that with, I write my journal for that exact reason.

Yeah. I write on the thing I'm angriest about and saddest about. Well, that's good. You're doing it because a lot of times I can't, I just can't go there in my the thing I'm angriest about and saddest about. Well, that's good. You're doing it because a lot of times I just can't go there in my head and I'm never gonna confront the person. So I need to get it out. It's so funny, because sometimes I'll be in bed

and Jenny will look over and I'm like writing in my journal and she'll be like, uh-oh. She's like, who are you angry at? It's such a tell. Yeah. Me writing in my journal is such a tell. But that's good you do that. Yeah,? It's such a tell. Yeah. Me writing in my journal is such a tell. But that's good you do that.

Yeah, no, I think it's really positive. I suggest it to everybody I'm close to. Well, this is the thing. That's why you're so funny, because you work on yourself. The best, in my opinion, the best comics work on themselves. I really believe that. ["The Last Supper"] The final thing we do in the show is working it out for our cause.

Is there a nonprofit that you like to contribute to? And we will contribute and link to them in the show. That's so nice. Yeah. Well, my daughter has heart disease. I'm very open about it. And I really I get so many messages like, oh my God, thank you for talking about my daughter Isabella, who's a nine and a half year old, has had four open heart surgeries.

The first one, she was eight days old. So we knew when she was not even born yet. And we go to Columbia Presbyterian and they have an amazing pediatric heart unit. That's great. So you can give to the Children's Heart Foundation. That's a great organization and cause, and that would be amazing. Okay.

So we're going to contribute to the Children's Heart Foundation. We're going to link to them in the show notes. And Jessica Kersen, congratulations on your special. Thank you, Mike. It's so funny. I couldn't recommend it more highly. I'm thrilled that the thousands and millions of people who have found you in the last few years because it's the thing that comedians have known

for years and years and years. Oh, thank you for saying that. It's so great to see all this popularity from it. Working it out, because it's not done. We're working it out, because there's no... That's going to do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Jess Kersen on Instagram, at jerson. That's Jesse with a Y. You can watch her special I'm the Man on Hulu. I can't recommend that more highly. She has a

ton of YouTube videos that are fantastic on her YouTube channel. You can watch this episode on my YouTube channel at Mike Birbiglia. Check that out and subscribe. We are posting more and morelia. Check that out and subscribe. We are posting more and more soon. Check out Berbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about all of my upcoming shows. There might be, I think, a couple more of those dates with Malaney and Fred and Nick, though I'm not promising it.

I've heard rumors of it. Our producers of Working It Out are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Berbiglia, and Mabel Lewis. Associate producer Gary Simon's sound mix by Shub Saren, supervising engineer Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and as always, our daughter Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows.

Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. It really helps people find the show. We have over 165 episodes at this point, and they're all free. No paywall. We've had Questlove last week.

We had Alana Glazer and Jim Gaffigan and so many great people. Check out our back catalog and comment on Apple Podcasts, which is your favorite, because if people are new to the podcast, that's a good place to start. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell your hecklers.

Let's say you're a comedian and you're just doing your job trying to make folks laugh and feel good and someone says something very mean-spirited. You could stop and go, hey, you need help. You need to be seen by Jessica Kersen's mom. But in the meantime, you could listen to this podcast called Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out. We're a comedian, works out jokes with other comedians.

Maybe if you listen to that, you'll realize we're just trying to make you laugh. Now, be silent and enjoy the show. Thanks everybody, we're Working It Out. We'll see you next time.