Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 168. Zarna Garg Returns: One Follower at a Time, a Million Times

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Zarna Garg first appeared on the Working It Out podcast in 2022 and since then her popularity has continued to rise. Zarna explains to Mike how she has built her comedy career like a business, and why performing for an audience of one or two is no different for her than performing for an audience of thousands. Mike and Zarna discuss free speech in Zarna’s native India, and what it’s like for her to raise her kids in America. Plus: why no one in Zarna’s family has been allowed to read her memoir This American Woman.Please consider donating to Unicorn Island

I'm going to read as your husband. Okay. Because that's okay if that's not inappropriate. Yeah, sure, sure. This is a dialogue between you and your husband. Yeah. When you first met. Yeah.

So I'll be your husband. What about sex? After a brief aneurysm, I said, listen, Mr. Kamasutra, that comes later. Later? I'm not getting married for sex. Whomever I marry, it will likely be months, if not years before I ever have sex with them.

Years. Years. Years. And then she could say the final line. Reader, we slept together that night. That is a great piece of writing. That is the voice of the great Czarnegárg. I am so thrilled that Czarnegárg is back. Since she appeared on this podcast in 2022.

She has exploded. She is huge. She is an incredible stand-up comedian with a fascinating life story. She has a new book, which is a memoir called This American Woman, which is amazing. That little bit you just heard is an abridged version of something from her book, a dialogue between her and her husband. As you can tell, she is just an extremely honest performer. We find it today on the show that no one in her family, who she wrote about extensively in this book, was allowed to read the book before it was published, which is wild. We talk about that. She just has a fascinating life story. She came to America from India as a teenager and has become an explosively hilarious and huge stand-up comedian.

So, anyway, couldn't be more excited about the episode today. A couple more shows coming up this summer with Nick Kroll, Fred Armisen, and all in support of John Mulaney. Nick, Fred, and I will probably do, I don't know, 15 or 20 minutes on the show. I think John's doing his full hour. August 7th at the Westville Music Bowl

in New Haven, Connecticut. August 8th at Bethel Woods Center for the Arts in Bethel, New York. You can get tickets at burrbiggs.com. And my new show, The Good Life, will be premiering on Netflix May 26th. Look for the trailer coming soon. This is a great chat today with Zarna.

She is a powerhouse comedian. She talks about building her comedy career like a business, her early days performing for one or two people. Now she plays to thousands, and she talks about how she approaches those shows in the same way. She gives it her all in every show. She's also acting in a new movie called A Nice Indian Boy, which is a hugely successful indie film that's in theaters now. Enjoy my chat with the great Zarna Garg. Working in.

The book is so good. The book is gonna be huge. Do you feel like it's gonna be huge? It feels to me like it's gonna blow up because it feels like such a relatable story, but also outrageous of a story. Someone comes from India, not only becomes a comedian, but becomes like one of the most successful comedians in America.

It doesn't feel outrageous to me because it's just happening and I'm going along with it. I can't say that I orchestrated all of it, even though I am very business-minded and I talk about it quite openly, but you can't predict a lot of these things. I had no idea that there would be moms in Arkansas who would wanna pay money to see my show.

So we'll see what happens. Well, and also like you're just, I have more than anyone, of almost any comedian I've ever met, you're so hyper prepared and focused on every gig. So like we did when Jen, my wife Jen's poetry book came out, you showed up and you did comedy, but also you wrote a poem for the event

because it was a poetry event. It's like, is that how you, and even like, you know, you talk about in the book about how you performed at Central Park, you know, like how do you approach different gigs? The same way. Same way. The same way, and it doesn't matter who's in the audience,

very famous people come and watch my shows. As you know, they come and watch your shows. It doesn't matter to me, they're all a paying audience for the most part. Yeah. Some people, some very famous people won't come unless you give them free tickets. My God.

But we won't get into that. Sure, true. But I believe, and when I started learning how to do social media, one of the things that I learned is that you don't get a million followers. You get one follower at a time, a million times. And you have to take everybody's attention very seriously.

When they're coming to our shows, they're coming to our, watching my video even online or my YouTube or whatever, they're giving one of the world's most precious commodities their attention. And it deserves to be met with respect across the board. So no matter who's in there, and I'm also Indian,

like preparing, taking tests, that's like our thing. If you wanted to- You've cornered the market. That's our market. Yeah, nobody else does it. No, everybody does it, but we only do that. We don't go out drinking, we don't play football, so what else are we gonna do? Sure, sure, sure.

I go with Tina and Amy, we go to different cities and states, like I'll always have three new jokes for that state, or that city. Wow. But I want to, no one's asking me to do it. Right. No one in the audience cares that I'm making, but you make that one joke that's specific to that town and it instantly tells them that you care about them.

No, it's completely true. And I think the best thing you can do is acknowledge, if you're a performer of any kind, acknowledge the room you're in, the city you're in, the state you're in, and the region you're in, basically. And not so much different from being a mom who's hosting a dinner party.

That's true. That's another thing I psych myself into believing when I'm on a big stage. And I'm like, am I gonna get nervous? And then I'm like, this is just a big dinner party. I don't have to overthink it, they're just people. I say that about standup all the time. One of the reasons I love it as an art form

is it's the simplest art form. It's one person speaking to two or more people. That's the whole thing. So it is like a dinner party. Sometimes even speaking to one person, I've done that too. Yeah, one person. One person shows up with a loan ticket, what do you do?

No, and it's funny, you have a story in your book where you talk about performing for like three people and you point out it was great. It was great. What do you do when you're in a situation where you're like, it's one, two or three people to make it work? I just lock in on them.

I'm like, you're here, I'm here, this is our moment. Yeah, yeah. You're getting all of me and I'm gonna do crowd work with just you. Sure. I'm gonna get to know you. Where are you from? What do you do for a living? Yeah, sure.

And I feel like I'm kind of working my creative muscle a little bit. I feel like a challenge has been thrown by the creative gods, and I'm not gonna shy away from it. That's so weird. It's like when I was younger, I used to dread college gigs

where you're performing in a cafeteria or like you're saying in Central Park. And now I'm kind of like, what's the worst thing that can happen? Like in some ways it's like it could make you better. In many ways. Yeah. This is what we talked about last time you were on the podcast.

Cause I've always said to you like, oh, you'll go back to India and you'll kill. You'll be the most famous comedian there. And you're like, at the time, this was in the years ago now, when we first became friends, you were like, no, no, I can't go back because my material is disrespecting my husband

and that won't fly there. But if you're famous enough, then they will be cool with it. So are you going back and are they cool with it? So I went back last year and it was a lot of emotional work to go there. I had offers to go for a while, but I was scared. Like India is an unpredictable place,

like a lot of those countries. I mean, like America too at this moment is a little unpredictable, but India is very unpredictable. You make a joke about somebody in the audience unknowingly and they're upset and they can make a phone call while you're still on stage. And I was very nervous. I remember that happened to Vir Das.

Yeah, yeah. We talked about it. And then they, I mean, they still hung him. He had like a lawsuit against him. Multiple. Yeah, from jokes he told. You can have lawsuits about jokes you didn't tell. That's a hard one.

No, it's true. If there's a rumor that you're gonna make a joke about this. Oh my God. If there's a rumor you're gonna make a joke about something you could have a lawsuit against. Yeah, they show up and they arrest you. They're like, we heard you're gonna talk about it. That's outrageous.

Recently, there was a club in Mumbai, actually one of the best clubs in Mumbai that got destroyed. Really? Because the rumor was that somebody made a joke about a Hindu god or something in there. So it's real. The fear is real. And I have my own anxieties because of my own background and history with how I left India and how I left Mumbai. So I was like, why am I doing this?

I make money doing, working here. I have people wanting to see me in New Jersey. Why am I going to New Delhi? But of course it's my people, it's my family. And I went last year and it was so amazing. I could not believe how much fun the audience was having. I'm sure they were. I was panicked, but it was all fine.

And then- You performed in English? Yeah, only English. I mean, India has the largest English speaking population in that side of the world. Everybody speaks English. People keep telling me this, I wanna go there. You go there, there's no language barrier whatsoever.

You land everywhere you go, the signs are in English, everybody speaks English. Will people show up for my show if I went there, or would they be like, who is this person? 100%, 100%. And not only will they show up, they will pay a very high ticket price, which is the one thing I did right.

I priced my tickets very high in India for a strategic reason, not just to make money, which was also true, but it kept the troublemakers out. You had to buy a very expensive ticket to see what was going on in my show. And it kept like the, you know, like there are a lot of street thugs that just take pleasure in harassing women back there.

But like, are they gonna pay like 200 US dollars? Just harass the media? I think they will find somebody else. So it went well, do you think you'll go back? I don't know. It's like a very, it's an internal struggle that like I struggle with a lot. I have a lot of anxiety.

I'm not an anxious person in general and actually don't really believe in anxiety the way it's spoken of in your- Perfect, I'm glad that we broke the ice on this. Thank you. I don't believe in anxiety either. And all these voices in my head are, they're not real. No, I'm just kidding.

What do you mean by that? They like my work in that moment, but it is really that unpredictable, that country and that environment. People don't understand how special America is. They just don't. Yeah, yeah. Here, you can stand on stage and trash your president.

Like say whatever you want about your- For the next few weeks. For the next few weeks, I've heard. For the next few days. In my case, I'm not saying anything bad. And I have my passport in the car. Just to be clear. My passport in the car!

Yeah, carrying it with me everywhere I go these days. Yeah. Oh my God. But you can do that here. Anywhere else in the world, and especially in the brown countries, no. That is not an option. Now you're playing with fire. You don't know who you pissed off. You don't know who assumed it was about them.

Right. You didn't even know this person. Oh, gosh. And now they're assuming that this whole thing was about them. Do you feel like it made you, cause you moved here when you were 16? Yeah.

So has the process of becoming a comedian, which is so based on free speech, has it made you patriotic as an American? A hundred percent. I mean, I am, that's why my book is titled This American Woman. This American Woman, yeah. It's, I learned here and I dedicated my book is titled, This American Woman. This American Woman, yeah. It's, I learned here and I dedicated my book

to American women because they taught me that I have a right, I have a voice, first of all, I didn't know that. Yeah. And that I have a right to use it. Because back home, anytime I had a disagreement with anybody, they were like, who do you think you are, an American woman?

Yeah. You know, any negative influence in India is like, that must have come from America. Interesting. And one of the negative things America brought to India is like women having opinions. Yeah, I have a big issue with that too. I understand that.

So does my husband. But... Do you feel patriotism towards India still? I love India. I'm not a hater. Everything I write, the reviews are pretty much unanimous about how my writing is a love letter to India

and to America. I left India under very complex circumstances. So as much as I love it, I know that in my heart, I'm American. I believe in free speech. I believe in women's rights. I'm doing everything I can to be supportive to the women's movements in America.

I really believe in it. It's not just, I'm not confused about it. So as much as I love where I came from and I appreciate my roots, my roots taught me to work hard. I come from a family of very hardworking people, very like intellectually curious people. I'm literally the dumbest person in my family.

You know people- And you're a lawyer and a comedian. A very bad lawyer, so we won't talk about that so bad. But you know, comics, sometimes people will come up to you and be like, that's the hardest job in the world. And I'm sitting next to my cousins who are brain surgeons that are ready to cry. They're like, do you know what we do?

Do you know what we do? Do you know? So I'm the dumbest person, but I have so much respect for my heritage. I come from a culture of people that really believes in doing good in the world and is contributing so positively. If you look at the amount of Indians who are scientists, who are doctors, who are engineers,

I joke about it, but God forbid somebody is sick one day, you're going to need the Indian doctor. I promise you. Oh yeah. It was some Indian doctor who was beaten up his whole life and whose mom is like, your passion is lung transplant. That's your passion is lung transplant. That's your passion.

You're not allowed to have any other passions. But she made sure that kid knew how to do this. So I have so much respect for my culture. I don't have any hate towards it. Do you think that India will ever have a free speech movement akin to America such that comedians like you actually, or Vir Das, won't fear having some kind of blowback from a joke.

I don't feel hopeful about it. I wish it has that environment, but I don't feel hopeful about it. Because from what we've seen, the world is kind of turning in the other direction in the last few years. And that's true also of India. So it's like, I wish as even just as a citizen,

I wish for that type of freedom, if I was not a comic, but it's somehow been very extremely polarized India. And it is kind of consistent with the trends you're seeing in the rest of the world. And it's becoming more conservative. I grew up with more freedoms than people have today. No kidding. Yeah. I grew up in a Mumbai where you went out

and you went and partied at night and we celebrated Valentine's Day in Mumbai. I remember as a teen reading about it in American comic books and then celebrating it in India. And today no one does it in India, very rare. This is like one of my favorite parts of your book. You wrote this in the summer of 1997, when I was 22 and a law student in Cleveland, Ohio,

I put up a personal ad on an Indian singles website. And the ad said, "'To some, I am too short or too plump, "'too dark or too argumentative, "'but enough about me. "'This is what I need from you. "'A husband and a partner, "'somebody who is ambitious but not ruthless,

"'confident but not arrogant, "'and humble but not timid, most of all honest. "'I'm on a mission to build a successful life and you must be ready to go with me. Only contact me if you wanna get married. No friends. Kindly include the most recent tax returns in medical records.

Come on, standing ovation. How smart was I pre-COVID to ask for medical records? Brilliant. That's an amazing piece of writing. Did you have any fear of publishing that, of how people would respond? The thing is that when you don't know, you don't know when you don't know.

When you don't know, you don't know, you don't know. I came from a world of arranged marriages, and in an arranged marriage setting, people say these things openly. Right. Like here, we know that what the word arranged marriage means, right? The phrase.

But how it is executed in real life is that two sets of parents will sit and like basically bring their wares to the table. Be like, your son has a receding hairline, but my daughter wears glasses. This is fine. We have a match here. This is fine. We have a match here. But this is fine, we have a match here.

So I was kind of accustomed to hearing adults talk about what it is that they wanted in a marriage context very openly. Like my dad was ruthless. I have two siblings, two brothers and a sister. But when my brothers were getting married, because those were the more important kids, obviously, he would ask like the parents of the women

that he was meeting, well, how much does she weigh? And what does she, is she learning in college? And how good is she at it? And what is her dream? And like, we might need some records of a make sure that she doesn't have any illnesses. So I thought I was being very forward. You chose to raise your kids here.

How would them growing up be different in India when compared to growing up here? Well, for one thing, they wouldn't be allowed to have so many opinions. My all American kids have a lot of opinions about everything, including my life. Sure. But they would not have the freedom.

Sure. They would not have the freedom to do whatever they wanna do, to be who they wanna be. And that would be tragic for sure. Last time you were on the podcast, I read the essay that Zoya Garg wrote, your daughter to get into college is beautiful.

And how's she doing? Is she out of school now? She's gonna graduate in three months. And she's doing great because we reached some agreement because her being in college was a traumatic process for me and you might remember. Yeah, so I remember. So she wanted to get a degree and all these things

that I was like, what are we gonna do with any of these degrees? And it's so expensive. So we reached an amicable solution, which is a very classic Indian solution. She could do what she wanted as long as she also did STEM on the side. So she's graduating with two degrees.

She's getting a degree in computer science, but she's also getting a degree in classics because she wants to be a writer. So it's better now. For many years, I was losing my mind. You can't just be a writer. No, I remember now. For many years I was losing my mind. You can't just be a writer. No, I remember, because you did a whole piece on this American life about it.

Yes. You were so upset about your daughter kind of not studying what you perceived as practical things. Yes, but I mean, am I wrong, Mike? Am I wrong? Come on. I'm not gonna comment on this. I mean, I was just, it was so funny,

when I heard that piece on This American Life, I was like, how much is Zarna playing into the character that is Zarna Garg versus feeling this way? Because you are a quintessential example of someone who's succeeded in the arts. So can't you see that Zoya just wants to do something creative also? But I built it like a business.

My kids have seen that. Like, they know that I'm very, very methodical about what I'm building. Yeah. If I was not making money as a comic, I would not be doing it. Even though I love it. Yeah. I couldn't afford it. I have three kids.

I have a whole life I have to pay for. So now the compromise that my daughter and I have reached is that if you wanna do something creative, show me that you can build it. And now she has been in charge of running my book pre-order campaign. Oh, I saw. And she's been selling thousands and thousands of books

and it's so hard. It is so hard. She's pre-sold thousands and thousands of books, and it's so hard. It is so hard. She's pre-sold thousands and thousands of books. Yeah, she said, but she had to learn how to discipline herself and turn it into a business. Like how do you deliver value to somebody who's gonna pay for this? And she came in like with her Stanford Swagger,

like a book, I could do this, and then had her ass handed to her in two weeks, it was like, it is so hard. Yeah, sure, that's really hard. But then she learned and she found one step after another step, and if she wants to do something creative, listen, she can do a tech job and do that on the weekends, write on op-ed on the weekends. Yeah.

No, I see what you're saying. Do you ever feel like you're leaning so hard into what your opinions are on stage that you're like, actually, I don't feel exactly that extreme? No. No, you don't. No, no. You actually feel mostly similar to your stage opinions?

Very much. And I don't think I could sell it if I didn't feel it. Like I don't think I'm a good enough actor. You know, everything I say on stage comes from a place of like having lived through it in some way. You know, as you know, I started comedy not that long ago. So I'm not trained enough to be out there. Like I think my audience would be like shocked

if I suddenly showed up as this open-minded, all understanding mother. This is the mom they like, this is the mom I am. So we're not gonna mess with what's working. Yeah, no, no, you're absolutely right. I remember years ago when we met, you would say like, you would do shows where you're handing out flyers on the street and you would talk to Indian people

who had just never gone to comedy shows before. And then they loved it. Yeah. What were those conversations like? It's wild. So during COVID, I used to do shows in the back of an Israeli restaurant on the Upper West Side. And sometimes we would have three people, five people,

whatever, whoever came. I just wanted to keep trying jokes and not lose my skill. And I remember one time a group came and they were like, this was so fun. It was a group of medical students, Indian medical students from Columbia. And they were like, this was so fun. And then they said, more people should do this.

More people should do this? That's great. Yeah. Yeah, more people should do this. More people should do this? That's great. Yeah, more people should do this. And they are medical students at Columbia. We're not talking about like some elderly couple who's never imagined it. They're not insulated from culture. They're in the mix. And for them, they thought I was doing something so revolutionary.

No, I know. I do get that a lot from people when I particularly, I meet like the other parents at school or whatever for school, like you do comedy, like what else do you do? Like none of those, that's what I do. It is just, I just think it's a mainstream art form, but then also for a lot of people, it's very much a niche art form.

They've never gone to a live comedy show. Never, and I don't think to any Indian, it would never occur to them, never. No Indian is sitting there thinking, what should I go and do for fun? We don't do fun. Totally. We're like, is there an SAT prep class on a Saturday night?

Let's do that. I'm a grown man, but I'll take it again. What do you enjoy most about doing comedy now that people come to see you? I mean, of course I enjoy making people laugh. I really do feel, and I'm sure you feel this, from the moment I begin the set to the moment I end, I feel like I can hear the blood pressure drop.

I love that. People came in all frazzled and stressed out about whatever it is that's going on in their lives. And then in the time that we spent together, they managed to just forget for those few minutes. But what's given me a sense of purpose about my role in this comedy world has been like, so I do a lot, I used to do a lot of wedding events a few years ago,

just to make a little side money. I would get invited to do like, you know, 20 minutes set at somebody's wedding or reception or whatever. Indian weddings, it's how it started. Indian wedding. And I would go and do them. And at the end of the set,

people would often line up to take selfies or talk to me. And one time I had an elderly couple come by and the elderly gentleman held my hand and he said, for 50 years in America, we've laughed at jokes we didn't understand. That thank you, thank you for joking about things that we care about. And thank you for telling stories that we understand

in a dialect and a voice that they find familiar to them. And it really has given me a sense of purpose that whatever forces of destiny brought me into this world, it was a bigger purpose than just me telling jokes. And I see it now, like Indian people who would have never in their lives considered comedy as an activity, not only come out, they come out again and again

and bring more people out with them. And then they look for other comics that they can go to. I mean, I have brought so many friends to your shows. Yeah, because I know- No, I remember that when I was at Lincoln Center, you brought like 20 people. Well, we travel in groups That's just the more Indian Circus we go everywhere with 20 people

But I remember going to my friends and saying if you like my comedy you're gonna love him Because I know the kind of comedy they like energy Thoughtful, you know the thoughtful of comedy they like. That's such good energy. They like that thoughtful, the thoughtful, clean joke telling. And I take them to a lot of shows. I take all my favorite comics that I like, even when I'm not there,

I'm reposting on my social media constantly. Cause I am fixated on delivering value to my audience. Yeah, yeah. I don't really care if they never post for me, if they never, like, it's not about any reciprocity I expect from any other comic or any other artists. If I think my audience will get value from this, I will go all out to support it

because I'm delivering value to them. That's great. I just think that there's enough to go around and I think we're building the, we're expanding the pie together, the way I see it. Yeah. You wrote about the importance of taking risks and betting on yourself at the head of one of the chapters. There's a quote, which is,

if life is a gamble, gamble on yourself. What is your advice for people who are afraid to bet on themselves? My advice is that it's a bigger bet. It's a bigger risk to bet on somebody else, says advice. Only you know you. No one else knows you.

Like there's no point. You know, you get, you meet people, they're like, I'm going to ask my friends what they think of this idea. They have no clue. Nobody knows what they're doing. Like from the president on down, nobody knows what they're doing.

You know what I mean? Everybody's kind of taking random bets in their life. A lot of people winging it, yeah. Everybody. Everybody's winging it. Pretty much. Yeah, yeah. I right now believe that even half the doctors I see

are going in the other room to chat GPT what they should say to me. No, I think you're right, you're not wrong. So what is the point in betting on somebody else's opinion? It's equally a random possibility of succeeding or failing, the way I see it. But you know what you're capable of. That's right.

There's a quote at the front of another one of your chapters that said, "'Accepting charity is a special skill.'" That really hit me. Can you make a case for that idea? Yeah. So I came to America under very complex circumstances and for years, not days, not weeks, not months,

for years, my siblings had to pay for me to just survive for my food, for my clothes. I lived in my sister's home for years. They had to buy me a car so I could get around. They had to pay for the gas. My education is all funded by my sister. And then my brother who sent money from India, but large part, my sister and her husband. When you're accepting charity at that level,

it's like it does something to your self-esteem. Because we're all proud. We all have our own pride, right? But in my case, I just had to accept it. There was no other way. There was no place for me to go. And I had to learn how to accept the charity with grace. And just so it's clear to all your listeners and viewers,

they never acted like they were being charitable. I've been blessed by incredible siblings who even get upset when I talk about this. They don't like it when I talk about it at all. They're like, we're all siblings, we all did it with, life worked out how it did and we're so happy for you now. They were still very close as we were our whole lives. But I knew what I was doing.

And I know now as somebody who has three kids, how hard it would be to add a whole another human being in my home for years. So you have to learn to make your peace with why you're doing what you're doing, why you're in this place, how to be accepting, but still also productive. You can't let that grief consume you

because you still have to be a productive person and go out there into the world and do stuff. So now I do a lot of charity shows as a guest. And I know that in that room, often I'm the only person who has been a recipient of big charity. And it changes how I view everything that's happening in that room because I understand the people that they're helping

in a way that many of the people in that room will never understand. It feels good to give, it's very difficult to take. This is called the slow round. What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you? I think it's the same thing, that I'm very opinionated. Some people love me for it, and then there is a whole stream of haters out there. Are there really haters though, or is it just kind of faceless, nameless, kind of like trolls on the internet?

That is true. They are faceless and nameless, but their words matter. I mean, you know, you read it and you're like, it sits in your head and then you get in your own head and you're like, well, was I too harsh? You know. Do people ever have it though in person at your shows? Like where they're, your opinions are too harsh?

Actually, I had a funny experience in Las Vegas. I was doing a show and one of the jokes I used to, I used to start off with, I'm an immigrant, I'm here to take your jobs. And like a whole bunch of people got up and said, we don't have jobs. Oh no. And I remember thinking, oh my God, like redirect,

my whole set, I was like, I can't do that joke. I can't do that joke. What can I do? Thank God, thank God I have an unending stream of mother-in-law trauma. Yes. Thank God she keeps God I have an unending stream of mother-in-law trauma. Yes. Thank God she keeps me in business. Sure, yeah.

Because it saves me every time when I'm in like a slightly stickier situation. Yes. But there, you know, I think the word immigrant is very loaded in America right now. Yes, it is. And I see sometimes when I'm on a lineup,

like if people haven't bought a ticket to come see me, but I'm just on a general lineup, like I'm a seller or whatever, I've noticed that there are people who will look at me and be like, Really? Yeah. Wow. Not everybody. Yeah. But there are there will be people in the audience. Yeah. Her accent. Yeah. Or her clothes like, yeah, why do I have to listen to this?

But I do. I see it. And, you know, I I try to not let it take me down because I come from a country that's the most racist country. So I understand it. I am not one to sit here and be like, don't be racist, don't be sexist. I come from a country that's the most of all of that.

So I just know that I'm gonna win them over. And in my head, I'm like, how am I gonna get them on my side? I start playing games with myself because the whole immigrant thing is not gonna work with them. But maybe like the ungrateful kids. Right, right.

No, totally. Being a parent or marriage stuff. Did your mother-in-law read the book? Not yet. Is that gonna be a whole deal? Probably. Probably, but no one has read it. Not my husband, no one.

Oh, no way. You're kidding me. No. So your husband didn't read this book? He's not allowed to. No way. All my laptops are locked down since a year and a half. No.

I, you gotta film that. No, yeah. You film everything. You gotta film that. I know yeah, but it's like, oh, I know. You film everything, you gotta film that. And I've written some stuff. I've written some stuff about him, his job, our life. Of course. But I, see, this is the thing.

The dialogue we just read. He didn't read that? No. I mean, this is outrageous. Was that like a thing that you said before you agreed to write the book to your family? Like, I'm not gonna run this by you? I said either I'm writing the book or I'm not writing the book. Wow.

I'm not writing a sanitized book and gonna lie to my audience. That's gonna pay a lot of money for this book and more importantly, a lot of their precious time. So either everybody involved trusts me that I will do the right thing and I will tell the right story. Or we can all as a family decide we don't wanna go down this road and we don't do the book at all. Wow.

Because I really am that anally particular about my audience and my relationship with my audience. I don't wanna tell a story that has been run through three rounds of committees. Yeah, good for you. It has to feel like I'm speaking to a friend. Did you ever have a joke that bumped your family members that was about them?

Yeah. I used to make a joke about how my husband back in the day was a chess champion, which is true. So I know, sexy. And now my daughter is a chess champion. So, you know, virgin. Oh my God. So who'd you get in trouble with for that one?

My husband and my daughter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you doing? Yeah, yeah. And they just heard it in the audience once and my daughter was like, and of course I talk about her dating life and sometimes the people she's dating,

their parents and they are in the audience. Sure. So it like, but my family knows I'm either doing this, I'm either doing this career thing or I'm not. Sure. And also I would guess if they saw you perform that joke, that joke is so well constructed that it kills. Yeah.

And it's kind of hard to fight with a laugh. With the laugh, exactly. If it doesn't get a laugh, that's when I think you get in a real sticky territory. If it doesn't get a laugh, I'm not keeping it anyway. You're not doing it anyway. Why am I doing it then? I'm gonna annoy them and annoy the audience.

Yeah, of course. Is there anyone who you're jealous of? Oh, so many people. I mean, everybody who has a mother who's alive, I'm jealous of. It's very sad, but it's true. Like my brain goes there now, especially as a grown woman, as a woman who has a mother who's alive, I'm jealous of. It's very sad, but it's true. Like my brain goes there now, especially as a grown woman, as a woman who has kids.

Like I hear people complain about their moms, like people my age. And like my mind just is like, you don't even know. Oh, and so sweet. What's something that you believed 10 years ago that you don't believe now? 10 years ago, I really wanted my kids to be with Indian life partners.

And now I've met so many dumb Indians and I've removed that requirement. I met so many really, really intelligent people who are amazing and loving that are not Indian and met equally as many dumb Indian people that are like, people say crazy things to me. Like I had to rely on a radio promoter to promote some shows in New Jersey

I was doing a few years ago. And this very elderly Indian uncle controls the South Asian radio mafia of New Jersey, if that's a thing. Okay. I didn't know that of New Jersey, if that's a thing. Okay. I didn't know that was a thing, but that's a thing. Sure, I'll take your word for it. Right?

People were like, you need to talk to him so you can get on the South Asian shows and whatever. And I started talking to him and he's like, first of all, you need to change your name. Oh my gosh. Because Garg is not a funny name. Oh gosh. Nobody named Garg is ever funny.

Oh dear. And it is not a funny name. Oh, gosh. Nobody named Garg is ever funny. Oh dear. And it is also not very glamorous. And I was like, you know what? I'm speaking to radio promoters all over America who don't have a problem with my name. Wow. What are we talking about here? Yeah.

I got that word verbally a lot when I was turning out. Is that true? Same thing, yeah. But I think, I also think like the long, you know, you keep a unique name long enough, eventually people will remember it. You hope. Well, certainly, yeah, people say your name to me a lot.

So it's working. Well, they try. I mean, I've been, I kept it. I was like, you know what, I'm not, but it was an example. I remember thinking you've lived in America. The guy has been running South Asian radio stations for 50 years in New Jersey, but you've just learned nothing. Your mind has not expanded at all.

So that is one thing 10 years ago I believed in. I, you know, my kids are going to hear this and make screenshots of this bit that we just said, my mom no longer needs me to be with an Indian woman. I think that's a good thing to learn. screenshots of this bit that we just said, my mom no longer needs me to be with an Indian woman. That's nice. I think that's a good thing to learn. Can you remember a time in your life when you were an inauthentic version of yourself? The first few weeks I tried to do comedy,

I thought that standup comics are American, so I should wear American clothes. So I was in a dress, like an American dress, with my arms and my legs showing and all, which I'm not used to. Like I don't dress like that in real life. But in my mind, I was doing this all American activity and I should like look that part.

And I remember getting, even though the jokes were fine and they were working-ish, I remember getting off the stage and being looking at myself and doing, what am I doing? Yeah. Like, and clearly the audience was not connecting with me the way that they should. And that was an epiphany for me.

I was like, that's just not who I am. I had a similar thing. The first time I auditioned at the Comedy Cellar, for whatever reason, I dressed up in dress shoes, and a suit, and I just didn't. Well, it was the cellar, I'm sure. I just didn't read the room. I didn't realize that, yeah, and also it's the cellar,

and you think, oh, it's a big deal. But then you're like, oh no, it's a laid back place, and it's not who I am. But it comes with time. I understand that. Cause the seller is the seller. And before you get in, it's this big thing that you have to put.

When I was new at the seller, I used to carry high heels in a bag. I was like, I gotta look good when I get on stage and I was switching and I was doing all kinds of crazy things. And with time, we all relaxed and it was like, no, no, it's not about that anyway. Right. It's not about all that stuff anyway.

Yeah. Is there anyone in your life who you should have called more? I think my mother-in-law. Yeah. I owe her that. Oh, that's sweet. I do.

Well, you know, I've said some pretty bad things. And she's called me and be like, I heard you said that. Oh, really? Yeah. Does she watch you? She watches and her friends watch all the clips. Like all her bitchy friends, like follow me on social media, like hounds. Like if I say, they get into my comment section and like, well, no, no, that's not true.

But we look forward to them being underneath this clip. Yeah, they will be there, trust me. Wow. And she, the reason I think- Do they dispute what you're saying? Yeah, they will. Oh, they dispute it. They dispute it or they'll give their version of it.

Like, oh, no, no, it wasn't exactly like that. Right. But I literally will throw any American company club under the bus. I'm like, oh, you know, I said that because they were like, if you don't say it, we won't buy your special. Right. Sure. I tell them, I'm like, they won't keep me.

They won't let me keep my job if I don't say all this on the seller stage. Right. Right. That's a good alibi. And one time my mother-in-law was visiting the seller and I introduced her to Esti, you know, the booker. And my mother-in-law was so scared for my job. She thought she was so scared for my job and she's meeting my boss that she kept telling Esti, she said, she's allowed to say whatever she wants.

Oh my gosh, she's allowed to say whatever she wants. I took some cards down from the wall today of just things that I remember enjoying. One is, this is a line, divorce can be as hard on a family as marriage. Yes. That was one. Yes, true. True, true. And...

Might be easier on the mother though. I mean, I sometimes think, okay, if I was just living my life without my husband, all the crazy things I would do if I didn't have to worry about his feelings. Yeah, yeah. This is something my daughter said to me the other day, without my husband. All the crazy things I would do if I didn't have to worry about his feelings. This is something my daughter said to me the other day, because I was driving her somewhere.

And she said, I like dad better than Uber because we don't have to wait for dad. Isn't that amazing? That's the beginnings of a joke right there. It's the beginning. No, but she could be saying up there, she'll kill with that. That's hilarious and true.

We don't have to wait for dad. Well, if you say more stuff like that, you're gonna have to wait for dad. This is when the other day I had a sexual dream and then I ran into the person that day who was in the dream. And in my mind, I was like, I had sex with you in my dream. But then what I actually said is nice to see you.

And now I'm suspicious of people when they say nice to see you. And is that, that's true for you? True story. You had this dream? True story. Wow, oh my God. I ran into them, yeah, I forget where.

What did you say when I walked in? Yeah, exactly, nice to see you. That might have been it. Do you have anything you're working on that's like new premises, bits that are unfinished right now? The competitive Indian moms. Oh, really?

When two competitive Indian moms meet each other, how does it go? And it's inspired by a real life moment where I ran into my friend Aditi at the airport and her son had just graduated Harvard Medical School. So of course she opened with that. That was her opener. That makes sense, I get it, she's proud.

And then I was like, oh, that's congratulations, right? Like, yes, congratulations. And she's like, well, that's congratulations, right? Like, yes, congratulations. And she's like, well, he also got a PhD. And I said, well, who wouldn't? It feels like the kind of thing you just throw in there. That's the kind of thing you do. You're already there. And then she goes, no, no, you don't understand

that he graduated top of his class, number one, actually above number one, but they don't like to say that in America. And I said, yes, I know America with all the egalitarianism and stuff. And then she goes, how's your daughter doing? I said, no, she's fine. She's like, your daughter is cute.

She'll find a man. Oh my gosh. This is true. And I was like, oh, she's okay. She's not so bad. And I said, she's about to graduate Stanford. And she goes, yeah, Stanford's gone down. Oh my God.

This was all true. And now I can't get it out of my head. So I'm building a whole set around the competitive moms meeting each other. Oh my gosh. And in the middle of this meeting, our friend Melissa, who's all American joined in and she's like, you know, I'm so excited.

My son just got a B in math. He got an 85. And Aditi really looked at her and said, I didn't know grades went down that low. Oh my God. The thing is that this woman was so clueless and oblivious. Yes.

Of how she was coming off in this world. Yeah, sure. That I was like, God is throwing this premise at me. Yeah, that's a great one. You know? So when something like that happens, you just go home and just write that all down. Write it down.

Yeah, yeah. I rarely write everything down, but that day I was like, write it all down. I wish I had a recorder. I wish I had gotten, because even the way she was pausing and going like... And she ended with, she's like, you know, and if you're looking for some,

if you want to introduce Zoya to some boys, I said, no, no, she's fine. She goes, well, no, I'm not asking for my son. Because my son is dating Miss New Jersey. Okay, all right, I didn't ask for your son. Miss New Jersey. Miss New Jersey, Miss India, New Jersey, actually. That's the thing.

Miss India, New Jersey is the thing. And I said, no, no, she's fine. She goes, no, but you know, my son said, he knows a lot of the radiation doctors, like they're like dying to meet girls because they never leave the room. And she would be happy to introduce them to your daughter. I couldn't, I was, my brain was working overtime

to preserve every word that was coming out of her mouth. So when you are in a conversation like that, so the first thing you do is you go home and you write down, or you take out a notebook and write it. No, I like voice note it immediately. Yeah, I voice note a lot of stuff like that. To myself, because I'm gonna forget otherwise. So then the next thing you do, like what's your approach

or is your approach to write out punchline ideas for that or do you go on stage and just tell the story and see what happens? No, I write it out and I think now what can I do to embellish it a little bit? Yes, that's right. Like what can I, what would I do? embellish it a little bit? What would I do? I put myself in her shoes and be like,

what are some other things I would say if my son was graduating Howard Medical School with an MD PhD? And I come up with like crazy things. I mean, I added, I remember one line I added to this because I've been testing this material in clubs right now. And I was like, I remember I added, he got such high grades that Einstein came out of his grave

and said, wow. That's great. I was just taking it to every extreme that I could. So I'll write down every extreme version of it that I can and then I'll go to an open mic or to a new joke night somewhere and test it. Not the seller. I still don't have the courage to do that. Sure, yeah.

But... That makes sense. Because I feel like they're watching you there always. Oh, everyone's watching. Yeah. Everyone's watching. But I'll go to like a small show somewhere and test drive it. But when I sit with it, I will come up with the most extreme versions of...

It's so funny because that's a good example, that story of the actual events of what happened are so extreme that it's like, how do you even heighten it? Oh, you could... You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like the Einstein thing is a good heightening, but it's like, but man, it's like, she's practically saying that. Yeah.

I want to build, the challenge has been building around her innocence of all of it. So she doesn't think she's doing anything crazy. No, definitely not. That's the craziest part of it though. Probably her universe is that's what you should do. You should come in with hard brags and see how it goes. And if someone brags harder, she should brag harder.

I think, I don't know her. There is a WhatsApp group in America that is parents of Ivy League doctors. Is that real? Yes. Are you serious? Yes. And some poor parent of a kid who goes to a medical school

at Tufts or something got in and they all came down on this woman. They're like, you're not Ivy League. Oh my gosh. You need to get out of this group chat. Who led her into this group chat? Who verified that? This is a real thing.

That is crazy. Yes. Wow. That's my people, Mike. I don't need to write the jokes. The jokes are writing themselves. Right, so meanwhile, the way you present yourself is like you are kind of like a hyper extreme

kind of competitive mom, but actually compared to that woman, you're nothing. I told you, I'm the dumbest person I know in my family. The final thing we do is working out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to contribute to and we will contribute to them and link to them in the show notes. Yes, Unicorn Island.

That is run by Lilly Singh, the very popular YouTuber. And she is doing really path breaking revolutionary work in the space of women's equality and women's ability to just speak and work in India and in other places and collaborating with other charities in America. I know her well. I know her personally and I'm all in on supporting her. So I would love to support Unicorn Island.

That's amazing. We will contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes. Zarna, I couldn't be happier for all of your success. Your book is going to be a smash hit. I couldn't recommend it more highly. I think people are just going to love it. Thank you so much.

I really appreciate that you're giving me and my big fat mouth this platform. I really do. Working it out because it's not done. We're working it out Because there's no That's gonna do it for another episode of working it out. You can follow Zarna Garg on Instagram at Zarna Garg You can get her book which is called this American woman at your local bookstore. I couldn't recommend it more highly It is hilarious and it's just a great read very personal You can see her on screen in a nice Indian boy in theaters now

personal. You can see her on screen in A Nice Indian Boy in theaters now. You can watch the full video of this episode on my YouTube channel at Mike Berbiglia. You can subscribe and get more videos served to you there. Go to Berbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about my upcoming shows and our producers of Working It Out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Berbiglia, Mabel Lewis, Associate Producer Gary Simons, Sound Mix by Ben Cruz, Supervising Engineer Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleagers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet, J-Hope Stein,

and our daughter, Una, who built the original radio, Fort Made of Pillows, for that sweet, sweet podcast sound. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, go over to Apple Podcasts and rate us and review us, give us some stars. If you're new to the podcast and you enjoyed this episode, you can listen to 160 different episodes that we've done that are all free.

There's no paywall. We've had Ben Stiller and Adam Scott and Jimmy Fallon and so many great people. You can check out our back catalog all free. And then whichever is your favorite episode Write in the comments on Apple podcast, which one is your favorite? It helps us out a lot as we always say tell your friends Tell your enemies tell your mother-in-law say listen mom or whatever you call your mother-in-law

I know we've had our differences. I know your friends may not like what I do on stage, but here's one thing I think we can bond over. It's a podcast called Working It Out, where a comedian talks to other comedians about their comedic process. You may not think I'm good enough for your son or your daughter, but I know that this podcast is good enough for both of us. Thanks, everybody. We're Working It Out.

We'll see you next time.