Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 172. Nick Kroll Returns: Neil Digression Tyson

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

This week, Nick Kroll returns to the podcast to discuss the first season of Adults, the last season of Big Mouth and a movie that Mike cannot seem to remember the name of (I Don’t Understand You). Nick and Mike delve into the behind-the-scenes realities of Hollywood writer’s rooms, development deals, and who Nick is jealous of. Plus, the thing Nick will always regret saying to Robert DeNiro.Please consider donating to: Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center

Can I have an actual answer for best piece of advice someone's given you that you used? Digress. Digress. Digressy Tyson. Neil Digressy Tyson. Neil Digress Tyson is what I am. Except he talks about like the planets and everywhere

and I just do bits. So your answer is Neil Digressy Tyson. To the question that is what's the best piece of advice someone's given you that you use, your answer is Neil deGrasse Tyson. Neil deGrasse Tyson. Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha! [♪ Music playing. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibrant guitar. Vibr So excited we have Nick back for his second time. One of my oldest friends, we have a lot to talk about. Nick has a new film called I Don't Understand You.

He just released the final season, the eighth season of Big Mouth, which is a classic show. And he produced a new show on FX called Adults, which is fantastic. We talk about all of those things today. Thank you to everybody who has watched The Good Life on Netflix. I can't thank you enough for the messages and emails. Thanks for telling your friends and telling your enemies. We are all super proud of it. It

was a big group of people who put in so much time and effort to make the special what it was and I can't thank you enough. Nick and I have been friends for a long time. As a matter of fact, this summer, yeah, this summer we're doing five shows together. Me, Nick, and Fred Armisen are all in support of John Mulaney's new hour of comedy. We're gonna be in August in New Haven, in Bethel Woods, New York, Portland, Maine, Halifax,

and then in September in Stanley Park in Vancouver. All of that is on BurrBigs.com. I love this chat with Nick Kroll. We talk about his new movie, which was shot in Italy. We talk about the show Adults. We talk about Big Mouth. We go on some wild tangents. That is par for the course with Nick.

All he does is tangents, but he has me laughing, I think as hard as anyone has ever had me laughing on this podcast. Enjoy my conversation with the great Nick Kroll. So last week, I invite you to the premiere of The Good Life. Yeah, I don't come. You write back, you don't come, you write back. Here's two invitations. On Tuesday, it's for Premiere of Adults season premiere,

launch, big mouth, series finale premiere. You're at a crossroads. Yeah. Like a perfect crossroads. Yeah. Does it feel like that? I feel like Britney Spears in the film Crossroads. Not like Robert, no, I'm going to, anyway.

So I feel like Britney Spears in that I'm heading towards a conservatorship. Yeah, yeah, I understand that aspect. I can see you in a conservatorship. I actually could imagine that. It would be great to just let someone else take the reins for a while. Someone in their 30s who can balance a checkbook.

Yeah, who knows how to get shit done. They can get your meals together for the day. They pack them in a backpack. Send you off with the water bottle that you like. Yes. You know, a bento box full of healthy snacks that are also tasty. And then you pay them four million dollars a year.

Yeah. Yeah. And who wants to make medical decisions? Exactly. Adults, by the way, super funny. Thank you. People watching? Yes.

Stick with it through the first episode. I don't think the first episode's great. The rest of it, I think, is a it through the first episode. I don't think the first episode's great, the rest of it I think is a riot. I'm furious. I do, I stuck up on you. At how I revealed I feel. All pilots are like that though. All pilots, the pilot of Friends is like that.

What's crazy about making TV, and specifically, is I do think I really like the first episode, but I totally understand what you're saying in that we started making this show. My first emails with Ben and Rebecca who created the show were in November 2020. It was like, hey, we have this idea. This is like, this sounds great. Let's start to do it. And now almost five years later, it goes on the air. And it moved pretty smoothly. I mean, we had like the pandemic, the writer strikes and just like general development.

And it was working at every stage. Like it was, but so when we conceived of the show five years ago or when they conceived of it and I helped them make it, it was like the pilot, there's some sort of hot button stuff in the pilot that really felt very different when, you know, that's some sort of hot button stuff in the pilot that really felt very different. When, you know, as, as you, that's why I think pilot suffers,

cause they take so long to make that, what you finally make isn't, doesn't feel as current as then what you start to make when you actually get to make the show. Closer to the date of the release. Yeah, just like now we're doing this thing that feels like alive versus this. But, and I really love the pilot for the show,

but I know what you mean. And I think as the season goes on, like if you get to like the third episode, Bayside Stabber, it's so funny. It's so- Dying laughing. I say this because I'm responsible, I'm a part of the show, but I say it as someone who's like, I didn't write it and I'm not acting in it. So there's like a little more distance that can I be like.

You can be fatherly to it. Yeah, I'm just like, that show is so funny and everyone on it, the cast is super, super funny. Well, but I have to say, like, because this is working out, it's a lot of people obsessed with craft. It's like, pilots are hard because they have to do so much work.

Yeah, yeah. Think about the pilot of any Seinfeld, any sitcom that you've ever liked, pilot's super hard. You have to explain all of the characters. Like in a lot of cases, five to 10 people who you know nothing about. And then by the end of it, you have to have a sense of like, let's watch the next one.

I always wonder, could you do it where you don't really, where you just kind of drop people in in the middle? Yeah. But there's gotta be a reason why it keeps not happening that way. No, it's interesting. And then I think part of the magic of that show is as the episodes go on, you must have done it in sequence

because everybody seems to be actual friends. So by the time the stabber episode comes, I'm laughing because I do feel like I know the people. And I'm like, oh yeah, they're friends. Yeah, and they really kind of truly bonded very quickly. And the intro sequence, all the pictures on the refrigerator, those are just their pictures that we asked them for.

Oh, that's sweet. So it's like, and it feels in that way where you're like, you know, I was watching with my wife and she was like, how'd you get all those pictures? I was like, oh, that's just them from over the current, the season. And so it feels like an authentic quality that it would be hard to mimic.

Like, just think about that photo shoot of being like, we gotta take 20 fucking different pictures of these kids and make it look like they've been friends forever. Yeah. You, get in the scuba outfit. Jesus. Put on another funny t-shirt asshole, let's go. Yeah.

Yeah, they feel. Am I allowed to swear on this podcast? No, this goes straight to NPR. Oh my God. Public radio. Yeah, we're just thriving right now, right? No, I have to tell you about some news stories. What?

Yeah, no, they're struggling. Wait, wait, do tell me what's happening on a national level. There's so much going on. I couldn't possibly brief you in the 70 minutes we have. Okay, great. Good, good, then fuck them. The, says America. Yeah, thank you.

With adults, what part feels like your life in your 20s, because we lived our 20s a bit together, and what part doesn't feel like your life? Sure, I mean, I think that was what I definitely responded to early on with making the show, was like, you know, Ben and Rebecca, when we started, were like 24, they were making it about their lives and their friends. And so it felt very current to them.

But for me, similar in a way, you're talking about Big Mouth, as far as like a somewhat of a spiritual, like, my work is spiritual. Not quite Pete Holmes level spiritual. Oh my God. You caught yourself being earnest for a moment. I know. And then I saw your wheels turning.

Yeah, earnest goes to podcast. Yeah, earnest goes to podcast. So in doing, in that, like Big Mouth was, for puberty, looking back on that, I think that adults is very much for, whether you're in the middle of it or you're looking back on it, it feels very similar to me. So like I think about adults is very much for whether you're in the middle of it or you're looking back on it, it feels very similar to me.

So like I think about when making the show of like what I was like in my early 20s when we were friends in New York. And in fact, you kind of were the Kyle Haberman, the kid in the pilot who gets molested. Oh Jesus, tell me more. Well, you were succeeding so early and it was like you came to New York

and immediately understood things, and you were on Letterman, you were succeeding, you had an office. By the way, you're talking about the character who gets a lot of attention for getting molested at work, I think? Yes, exactly. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And they're all jealous of how much attention he's getting.

Yeah, sorry, yes, thank you. I was just saying the kid who got molested. Yes, it's more like he's getting clout for. He's getting. Yeah, sorry, yes, thank you. I was just saying the kid got molested. Yes, it's more like he's getting clout for. He's getting molested at the office. Yeah, you know. And you did, you, Rainn Wilson, sexually assaulted you on the set of The Office. Oh, Jesus Christ.

This has gone terribly awry. But you guys worked it out on SoulPancake, and now here we are. Jesus Christ. So, but in my early 20s, I was, here's what I'll say about my early 20s, is that like you, there's a lot of things about it, but I think about us knowing each other,

and that I really did look at you being like, you really understood, you were succeeding, and I was like, when is my life gonna start? When is my career gonna start? And of course, it did in its own way. But that, so like, for example, that's a feeling that I, in that pilot, even though it's a very heightened, ridiculous thing,

it's something that I was like, oh yes, I felt experiences like that when you're just starting out. You're like, how did that person get that thing? Big or small, you're just trying to understand it. And also, my roommates from New York in those days came to the premiere last night, which was really sweet. They were Lauren Brody and Drew Brody came.

And Lauren. Our friend from college. Yeah, my dear friend. And I really think of him in a lot of ways, and I think about my early 20s. We went to college together and then moved in together. Yeah. Yeah, my dear friend, and I really think of him in a lot of ways, and I think about my early 20s. We went to college together and then moved in together. And really, not knowing I was supposed to wash my sheets,

do you know what I mean? Like my bed, one day I smelled my bed. My bed fucking stinks. Yes, yes. Like what is going on? What has happened? What has happened? What is going on? Someone needs to handle this. Like what is going on? What has happened? What has happened? What is going on?

Someone needs to handle this. Someone has to do something. Where's my conservator? Yeah. Oh my God. That's what a conservator would do. That would. They would wash your sheets.

If you're getting $4 million a year, they should wash your sheets. They'll wash your sheets. Yeah, give you a camera from a high angle in a cavernous. Free Nick Kroll. Thank you, finally. So wash your sheets, things like that in your 20s. All that stuff, I used to eat pizza

and think it was genuinely healthy. Do you like pizza, Mike? Have you ever talked about liking pizza? I knew you were gonna somehow come at me with this. About pizza? Yeah, I don't know. But I know you mean, it's not that you thought it was healthy,

but you're like, yeah, it's got food groups in it. Yeah, exactly. And it's got tomatoes. Tomatoes are vegetables still at that point in my, not knowing they were a fruit like an idiot. How could I not known seeds. You shoulda known. Seeds make a fruit?

What about a cucumber? No, that's right. Both, fruit. So wait, but talk to me about Big Mouth, because when I'm watching it, I'm going, I'm sure in the final episode it's less this way, but in the early seasons, it must be real stories from your life where there's real people.

Yes. Like, did you ever have conversations with people where they're like, were your friends from growing up, or like, that was me in seventh grade? Yeah, I mean, for sure, early on and throughout, there were things that, yeah, like a dear friend of mine from growing up, me and Andrew and I grew up with, he fucked his pillows. I mean, that's like, that's how we got that.

That is a unique thing about writers rooms in Hollywood that before I was in one, I didn't understand. And with Big Mouth is probably wild, which is you bring your own stories. Yeah. Like this thing happened to me. And sometimes it's almost a negotiation of like, will you give that to the show?

And that's why we have NDAs, we've got, we have all the, showrunners always had guns. Lawyers on site. Lawyers in the room. Ready to issue paperwork. Yes, so, and that was, and that at first, I think was tough for the room to create trust. It's funny though, like your show in particular,

because writers rooms is people telling awkward stories, and it's like this thing where you're like, do I tell these people who some of them I know well and some of them I don't? But like puberty stories, like some of them must have been, people must have been like, can I tell this to coworkers? I was like, ew, every time they do it, I go, ew,

that's so fucking gross. That's gross, get out of here. Get out of here, ew. Take lunch. I think, yeah, take lunch. Billy, take lunch. Yeah, it was always. Someone tells a deeply personal story.

It was Billy Crystal. Why don't you, Billy Crystal, take five. Have you ever had Michael Jackson on the podcast? Would you have Michael on? Yeah, if Michael were alive, I would consider having him on. One of the greatest entertainers of all time. Yeah, okay. Just wanted to know. You just wanted to know? That was like a burning question for you?

Maybe it'll be on CNN tomorrow. For big Leo wants Jackson on the podcast. What if I had Woody? Woody? Woody. Woody Harrelson? No, I get Woody Allen up here on the third floor. Talk about joke writing with Woody.

Yeah. Nothing else? What if Woody Allen loves this podcast? He listens to it. He just alone in an apartment playing the clarinet at a low volume, blasting you. It's blasting through a Nokia flip phone. They somehow figured out how to get a podcast through a flip phone.

They got it for Woody. That was Suni's present. Oh my God. His 80th. Woody, we figured out how to get a podcast to play it on your Nokia. Do you think, so Big Mouth is like a, Big Mouth is like a bird's eye view understanding

of being a teenager. Adults is that of your 20s. You think you'll do the 30s, you think you'll do the 40s, you think it'll just take some time? I think we're sort of, I guess it, I don't, it was not intentional, but I think we're doing, we're doing this new animated show, the Big Mouth team is doing a new show

that'll come out like now, a year from now, that is called Mating Season, and it's about animals dating and fucking in the woods. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, so that'll be, and that is a little, that's older than the adults, because it's like mating season. It's like people are starting to settle down.

20s and 30s. Yeah, like people are like, you're like, oh, I guess I should be looking for my partner, for real, for real. So it's those kind of stories and stuff like that. So in a weird way, I guess I am starting, there is a bit of that. And then I think the things that I'm trying to,

that I'm making for myself are inherently gonna be about, you know, I'm working on a, all jokes aside, I am working on a movie called This Is 40. This Is 40, that, which there already was one. There was? Yeah, Judd Apatow. Judd Reinhold? No, not Judd Reinhold. Judd Apatow. Judd Reinhold? No, not Judd Reinhold.

Judd Apatow did a movie. Oh, Judge Reinhold. No, Judd Apatow did a movie. Judd Judy? No, not Judge Judy. No, I said Judd Judy. Oh, not Judge Judy. Judd Apatow did it. He cast Paul Rudd and Leslie Mann,

who's his wife. I know both of those people. And then their children, Maude and Iris. Oh, I know Maude. Oh, Maude's dad made a movie? Judd will enjoy this so much. Will he? Maude's dad made a movie.

Maude's dad made a lot of movies. No shit. Yeah, Maude the Appetite's dad made a ton of movies. Do you think you'll show your kids Big Mouth? When they hit it? I show my kids, my kids are under five. I showed them The Exorcist, and I now feel like it was too, I feel like it was too early.

Oh, you showed? I don't know, I did, my brother, I had an older brother, I don't know if you had this with your older siblings. We got to watch stuff earlier than they did. So like I did, my parents were away and we had these babysitters who we later found out were heroin addicts, which is a crazy thing. For real?

Yeah, like my responsible parents let us stay with a guy who turned out to be a heroin addict. That's hard. And he wouldn't even give me a taste. But they like kind of, we should have known because they were like letting my brother pick the movies and they let him at 12 and I was five. They let him watch The Exorcist

and they let me watch The Exorcist at five. And so I don't like scary movies. No, no, you didn't answer the question though. What was the question? Thank you, Gary's nodding. You didn't answer the question,. What was the question? Thank you, Gary's nodding. You didn't answer the question which is, are you gonna show your kids when it's the appropriate age? Big mouth, because it is kind of a quintessential show

to show people going through adolescence. I'll answer this with a question. I hate you. Would you watch eventually all of Quinta Brunson's work and call it the Quinta Essentials? The Quinta Essentials. Okay, and now I will answer your question. But Quinta, if you want to talk about the Quinta Essentials,

we're available. The kids watch the show. Andrew Goldberg co-created the show, my dear friend from when I was six years old who I made the show with. He, his kids,-created the show, my dear friend from when I was six years old, who I made the show with, he, his kids, when we started the show, were very young, like the age of my kids, are a little older, and he always said, I will let them watch the show

when they are the age of the kids in the show. Yeah, makes sense. And I think that's right. So like sixth, seventh grade, yeah, and you have to read who your kid is, but like, I think, yes, I think that when they're around that age, like I think it's, yeah, because there's much worse things

they could be watching, is how I've always felt. No, it's great. I think it's a, it is a, I said this since season one, it's a great service, because it's funny, and it actually is an icebreaker for like hard topics about P-Birdie. Before I go to slow round, Mabel or Gary, am I missing anything?

Casting's one. Oh yeah, casting. I want to ask you about casting. I also want to talk about, I don't understand you, the movie, I don't know if you're going to talk about that. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, should we talk about that? Yes, but I don't have questions for it.

Oh, that's fine. But do you want me to ask a question about it? Yeah, I'll just talk about it. I'll just talk about it however you want to do it. Say the name of it. I won't, you have to figure it out. That's what's happening now. I'm pimping you into letting me promote something

and I'm not going to tell you what it is. I've had this before. Say it again. I will not say the name of the movie. And if she tells you the name of the movie. Gary. If he tells you the name, excuse me. Say it.

Excuse me. I don tells you, no, excuse me. Say it. Excuse me. I don't know think. I don't know think. I don't. Come check out Nick Kroll in I Don't Know Think. I don't say. Don't think twice. Don't say this.

Don't say this. I don't understand. I don't think twice. I don't understand thinking twice. I don't get under. I don't. I don't understand. I don't understand. I don't think twice. I don't understand thinking twice. I don't get under. I don't think. I don't understand. I don't understand.

You. So I don't understand you. Tell me about the movie. Well, what did you think of it? I didn't see it, but I feel bad now that I didn't see it. You have so many projects. It's a feel like I, you have so many projects. It's a. Stop it.

You have so many projects. I'll talk about Don't Worry Darling. Great, finally. Okay, good. All right, finally. So it's me. How many things are you in? You're in so many things.

I am in a, this is a, I can talk about this. So this movie, I don't understand you. It's me and Andrew Rannells. We go on a, like we're a couple, 10 years together. We've been trying to adopt a kid. We're going on a vacation to Italy to like, it's our 10 year anniversary. It's supposed to be this like fun trip

and we end up going to this, like we're supposed to go to this little restaurant. We get caught in like a rainstorm and then shit goes down. Like halfway through the movie, the movie takes a very hard, I think funny, but like thriller horror turn. And you feel like you're watching kind of like one,

you know, like a kind of a rom-com with he and I. And then it just like, we just start fucking killing people. Oh wow. And then it's, but it's like very farcical. It's in Italy, there's a lot of miscommunication. It's like a classic kind of farce miscommunication and then we just start killing everybody. And it's really funny and like fun and kind of scary.

It's in theaters. Oh wow. It'll be in theaters. Oh wow. It'll be in theaters June 6th. And it's a fun one to go to the movie theater too. Did you audition for that movie or were you asked to be in the movie? The Me and Rannells, they kind of, they went to Andrew and they were like,

we think Nick could be good for it. And it's, the directors are David Craig and Brian Crainow. They're a real life couple. They had gone through like a very long, somewhat harrowing adoption process, including getting like scammed. And like, and then- Oh gosh, what a nightmare.

Either it's like a real, you know, it was a real, and then, but then their son is in like, the son they eventually did adopt is in the movie and is at the way end and is like the most adorable, it's like a really beautiful, and this boy is like such a sweet kid. That was a scam though, it was a full-size adult. It was, yeah, the first one showed up. The first one showed up.

That's right, when the first one showed up, it was full-size adult. It was Frank Stallone. They go, here's your baby. He's like, hey. I'm doing that. Not even sly. So that's what I thought they'd get away with it, except for, and this is speaking of Paul Rudd,

who's in Maude's dad's movies. Yep. Maude's dad's movie has Paul Rudd. Yeah. I'm stealing this from him, it's so funny to me, I'm just gonna say it out loud, Paul, if you're mad, I'm so sorry. We're sorry. I'm like Robin, I'm stealing this from him, it's so funny to me, I'm just gonna say it out loud, Paul if you're mad, I'm so sorry. We're sorry.

I'm like Robin, I'm a sponge. And he's like, Paul read, I remember telling him this story, he's like, I think I saw Frank Stallone one day and the reason I think it was Frank Stallone is because he was wearing a hat that said Frank Stallone. So, Paul, I'm sorry if you're gonna use that for panel or something and now I've used it. I think we're good on that.

["Sweet Home Alone"] All right, this is a slow round. I'm gonna go ahead and play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it.

I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it.

I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it. Thank you. Okay, you want me to slow it down now? Yeah, slow it down. People's favorite and least favorite things about me. I feel when I'm at those events, like this last, because I have like putting out-

Like the premiere of adults in big mouth. Like these three weeks have been, and I had like the comedy versus cancer benefit, which you've done many times the week before. And my wife, Lily, is opening these lawns in Madison Square Park that you very kindly came straight off of a long travel and came in and read these stories for kids, like comedian story time for kids.

It's been a, this period of time. You're doing it again, June 14th. Thank you, yes. But it's been a very highly condensed period of time that I've put out like 10, 15 years collectively of work in a very short time, which is what we were talking about earlier. So it's been a weirdly amazing moment

and an incredibly just draining, weirdly draining experience of releasing all this stuff at once. So when I'm at those events, I think I feel like I could have been a politician. I'm real like, hey, hey, Mikey, come here, give me a hug, come here, pet's here. Mikey, let's go sit, you know what I mean?

So I feel like people would, in my mind, at times I'm like people think I am a politician, which is both a skill and a- Like a fraud. Yeah, and a fraud. Yeah. That would be- My kid in the pool was swimming the other week

and he's like under five and he just was swimming, he goes, my dad's a fraud. Is this for real? My dad's a fraud. My dad's a fraud and I was like, man, this kid gets it. He ain't wrong. He ain't wrong. Which part is wrong?

Yeah. But what's people's favorite thing about you? I think that I'm a politician. Oh, it's the same thing. It's kind of the same thing because I do, I can be at a thing with you and lock in for an amount of time and have a genuine experience with you like we're doing here today.

That is also fraught and slightly fraud. No, that is sort of like, you know, you know what I mean? What's funny, I was thinking about our, the thing you were describing, I'm like, oh yeah, I know what you mean, but I never thought about it that way, because I've always thought of you,

because we've known each other 26 years, it's like, pfft, yeah, 26 years. Jesus Christ. I know, but I think of you, when people ask me to describe my relationship with you, I'm like, he's my brother. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm like, it's not even,

we're not even friends anymore. No, I'm Joe Baggs. That's true. You're Joe Baggs in Donuts Part Two. Yeah, I take everything out of a green room. No, we're like, we're like. No LaCroix left behind. No, but there's no, here's how I put it,

there's no favor that you would ask me that I wouldn't just be like, yeah, if I can do it, I will do it. Give me a quart of blood right now. I would do it. Give me your next hour. I'll give you my next hour. Give me the next hour. I'll write you my next hour. Give me the next hour.

I'll write you 10 minutes. I'll write you 10 minutes. Honestly. That's how much I can do. But I always say, you're like my brother, and also, I was thinking about, what would be the thing that if I asked you for, you'd be like, all right, don't ask me for that.

Is there a bridge too far? What wouldn't I do? I wouldn't do this podcast. Okay. We're off camera, right? This is off camera. This is all mics. I gotta protect my joy.

Okay. Who are you jealous of? I'm jealous of, frankly, of all of my longtime friends and collaborators. I'm a little jealous of all of them, and it's partly why I become friends with them. Because I see like, I do see talent and get attracted to it. And so I, with almost everyone that I've known and collaborated with for a long time,

I'm like jealous of what they have. And so I try to like bring it into the fold so that I can profit from it too. That's right. I guess it's sort of true even though I said it with a face that meant it was somehow evil. No, it is true. That's an astute observation though.

I think even romantic love, I feel like you're attracted to Lily's talent, I'm attracted to Jenny's talent. Totally. There is part of it. And I think in our cases it's nice to have someone who has talents that are different than yours. And I think that's talent. There is part of it. And I think in our cases, it's nice to have someone who has talents that are different than yours. And I think that's helpful.

I think it is helpful for me to have a partner who's a really talented artist who does something very different than I do and we can appreciate each other what we do and not feel like we're, that even that element of the relationship is also somehow in direct conversation. Yeah, for people who don't know,

what Lily does is, I think it's called landscape architecture. Landscape design, she does like large scale, botanical art and also- It's stunning. We were just at one of her exhibitions. She did like in Madison Square Park, she has like a lawn that she did like a meditation garden

labyrinth that she designed and then like a children's garden space and she does all kinds of things like that. That are super, and it's fun to talk to her about what she does and I definitely talk to her about what I do and she was and is like a real comedy fan. Like she was a real fan of yours before we met. And then I lifted the veil about how everything works, like the magic trick of it all.

Yeah. Can I tell you? No, he builds it backwards. He builds it backwards? No, he built that. He starts at the end. At the end. And then it's not even that sophisticated.

It's actually. It's easy. Even a fool. And then it's not even that sophisticated. It's actually. It's easy. Even a fool. Any of us could do it. A fool could do it. Oh my God. So, but I do think, but I'll tell you, and you can use this or not use this.

Okay. But we, me and Lily came to see your show at the Cherry Lane. We had just started dating. Oh my gosh. And it was one of our first, it was not our first dates, it was like one of our first kind of dates. And my parents were also planning on going. And so we ended of our first, it was not our first dates, it was like one of our first kind of dates and my parents were also planning on going.

And so we ended up going together, Lily and me and my parents. And like, the truth is it was earlier in the relationship than I would normally have like my girlfriend meet my parents, but it was, there's something about her, but also it was so early and it was so sort of, to like go to your show together, it wasn't like, oh, you're like meeting my parents.

And if people have a chance, go see Meet the Parents. Oh yeah, Meet the Parents, a classic film, I mean. Not really in the news right now, but sure, yeah. But it is, it's actually, they're making a fourth one. Oh, that's true, they're making a fourth. Ariana Grande signed on. I'm in Meet the Fockers, the third one, I'm a doctor in it, because they had cast a kid in it

who in the middle of shooting developed a tick. And so they had to recast the kid and then reshoot a bunch of the scenes in the movie with a new kid and I got cast as the new young doctor. Oh wow. And I spent a day there and I was like, De Niro's just sitting there for coverage, you know? And I'm like, this is the deja vu that must be his life.

That he's like, already shot this scene where for like the 30th time he's going to stay to still or like whatever, you know what I mean? And I try to make conversation with him. I'm like, I go, I've been to the Greenwich Hotel where he's like an owner of art. Yeah, something like that. And his father did the art around it.

Like you see a lot of paintings in there. His father painted them. And I was like, that'll be my way. I'll be like, your father's art is really beautiful. I was like, oh, thanks so much. I was like, do you ever stay there at the Greenwich? He's like, at a hotel in New York. That's so fucking funny.

And I was like, anyway. It's like, I think they're calling us back. It's like a nightmare of a conversation with like an idol. Yeah, totally. You're like, just give me something here. Can I just? At a hotel in New York. New York, where I live. Anyway, that's all to say, I don't remember.

What were we talking about? So you were at the Cherry Lane show with Lily. With Lily and happened to be my parents were there also. So it has an extra resonance that show for me. And it's a great show. It was the show that eventually went to Broadway. The first one that went to Broadway. Yeah, the new one. The new one it's a great show. It was the show that eventually went to Broadway, the first one that went to Broadway. Yeah, the new one.

The new one it's called. Yeah, and I remember still you had all the toys drop. Toys drop, yeah. At the Cherry Lane, that was probably not an easy undertaking. No, as a matter of fact, our producer, Mabel, dropped them from the ceiling. Really?

She was in high school. And then she fell famously. Famously fell with the toys, and that was the one they reviewed for the Times. I know. Yes. That's how it happens. No, and they said it works.

They said it worked. They said the high schooler falling from the ceiling, we don't know why, but it works. It works if the show feels fresh every night. You never know what's gonna happen. So then when it went to Broadway, we had to hire a different teenager every night to die from falling from the ceiling

because it's Broadway and it's got to work. It's gotta work. If it's on Broadway, it's gotta work. If we sell tickets, we need dead teens every night. And then at a certain point. That's how they came up with Dear Evan Hansen. Well, it was diminishing returns where people, the audiences weren't as excited

about the dead teenager falling from the ceiling. So then it was like five teenagers, 10 teenagers. Then it was like 25 teenagers falling from the ceiling. So then it was like five teenagers, 10 teenagers. Then it was like 25 teenagers falling from the ceiling to their death every night. I was talking about thousands of teenagers. Yeah, but you stayed in the papers. And that's what you gotta do to make it on Broadway, baby. You gotta stay in the trades.

We stayed in the papers. You gotta stay in the papers. Oh, got page five. Yeah, but every night on Dave Page Five. We gotta stay in the papers. Walter Winchell read, yeah, but every night on day page five. We gotta get through some more of the slow round. Okay, okay, but I still have an- You are so fucking digressive.

I know. You make me look focused. I know, I know. Jesus Christ. But I do wanna just quickly say for your next show, my pitch is back to the top of this bit, is you do a show called Diminishing Returns. Ha ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha ha. Where, okay, now- Is any of this bit, is you do a show called Diminishing Returns. Where, okay, now. Is any of this usable? Yes, it's all usable. It's all gonna be great, it's gonna be great. But here's the thing where, so Lily. This is what it's like to be in the writer's room of Big Mouth all the time. Yes, sort of.

Like Nicky doing De Niro impressions. Nicky doing disruptive bits. But I guess that is how I ultimately work, is I just explode and then either self edit or have people help me coalesce it. But I'm playing a bit of a part here today. A heel. I'm playing a bit of the heel for you.

Yeah, for sure. Yes, and except it's not a heel to the audience, it's just a heel to you alone. So we went to the show, Lily and I went, and you walk on stage and you're putting the mic on and you're making your tea. And Lily was like, I love how casual, how much Mike is just sort of walking out

and starting this thing. And I was like, oh, that's fake, he's doing that. This is part of, he does it every night. He's setting up what he does. And Lily was like, no, like whatever. Just, or, you know, it was like, huh. And then watched the special and was like, oh, wow. Okay, that is what he was doing, you know?

That's sweet. And, but to your credit, she still, and I still, love the craft of what you do. Like it is all of this crafted thing, and I don't think it diminishes it to understand over time what that process is. It's a trick.

It's a magic trick. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received that you used? Don't talk to icons about their parents' paintings unless you have somewhere useful to go. Really specific, though. There's probably a lot of people whose parents are painters.

Can I have an actual answer for best piece of advice someone's given you that you used? Digress. Digress. Digress. Digressy Tyson. Neil digressy Tyson. Neil digress Tyson is what I am. Except he talks about like the planets and everywhere

and I just do bits. So your answer is Neil digressy Tyson. To the question that is what's the best piece of advice someone's given you that you use, your answer is Neil digressy Tyson. Neilrasse Tyson. To the question that is, what's the best piece of advice someone's given you that you use? Your answer is Neil deGrasse Tyson. Neil deGrasse Tyson. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I'm like a shower before I leave. So the best piece of advice I wasn't even part of, but I remember in the early 2000s there was that show Iconoclasts on Sundance.

Beautiful show. That series is unbelievable. I remember Chappelle and Maya Angelou was one of them. People, icons interviewing each other. Yes, in that interview there's a piece of advice that, Chappelle's talking to Maya Angelou about getting criticized or critics, and she's like, if you don't pick up the compliments,

then you don't have to pick up the critiques either. That's right. It was some version of that. Or if you take one, you have to take the other. Yes. I think it's super smart. Yeah, if you do what we do, which is you have to figure out how to make your art

and let it be what it is. And if you start to get too obsessed with how people are like complimenting it or critiquing it, it just is like an exhausting endeavor. If you really have to be able to figure out a way to sort of what I've tried to do over time is find joy in the making of the thing, because the final outcome of it is a bit, even if you can control it, is out of your control. You know who said that? Who?

Neil Digression Tyson. Neil Digression Tyson is probably better. Neil Digression Tyson's a good character for the Kroll show. Oh my God, let's get it going. Paramount, give me a call. Everything good over there? You have a joke that I thought was really funny and then I was like, oh, I basically had written the same joke another way.

I saw you a lot ago do the thing about how the phrase 100% never means 100%. Yeah. Oh, no. Is that your... I want to talk about 100%. I want to talk about 100% a lot, but that's a funny... The way you phrase that is actually a very smart way for you. Wait, what's your phrasing of it?

I just am like, we're talking about 100%, we're saying it too much, it's everywhere, it's too much, and then I wish we could use actual percentages for things. Oh, that's funny. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But the way you just phrase it, wait, how did you just phrase it?

I just said the phrase 100% never refer, when people say 100%, it's never 100%. Yes, that's funny. And I wrote it on tag which is, no kidding almost never involves kidding or ambiguity about kidding. That's funny, yeah. No, I'm no kidding.

No kidding. No kidding. No kidding. 100%. 100%. No, I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. I know.

100% you are beautiful. Never means you're beautiful. Never% you are beautiful. 100%. Never means you're beautiful. Never means you're beautiful. Beautiful never means you're beautiful. It's always just like, oh my God. Here's a joke. You are beautiful.

Oh my God, 100%. It's like, what you, 100%, no kidding. I'm no kidding, you are beautiful. No, no, you're stunning. 100%. Where is that coat from, heaven? Oh my God. Jesus Christ, where did you get that? I got it from Jesus Christ. You know who's the savior? Jesus Christ, 100%. Where is that, where's that coat from? Heaven? Oh my God.

Jesus Christ, where did you get that? I got it from Jesus Christ. You know who's the Savior? Jesus Christ, 100%. Oh my God, 100%. But if you once you start- Lord and Savior though. Lord and Taylor.

Lord and Taylor. I got it out, you got that coat at Lord and Taylor? I got this coat at Lord and Taylor. All right, this is the next thing I wrote down. In Rome, last year we went to Rome, back to Rome. My daughter noticed a billboard for sunscreen and it had all the sunsets. And she was like, oh, I'm going to go to the sun screen. And she was like, oh, I'm going to go to the sun screen.

And she was like, oh, I'm going to go to the sun screen. And she was like, oh, I'm going to go to the sun screen. And she was like, oh, I'm going to go to the sun screen. And she was like, oh, I'm going to go to the sun screen. And she was like, oh, I'm going to go to the sun screen. And she was like, oh, I'm going to go to the sun screen. And she was like, oh, I'm going to go to the sun screen. And she was like Rome, last year we went to Rome, back to Rome. My daughter noticed a billboard for sunscreen and it had all this graffiti on it, where it was like a person and then it was like graffiti of like dicks on their face.

And she's like, what's that? And I was like, it's a wand. Because it's like, I didn't have the heart to tell her it was a dick, it felt like it was too young to pass on that wisdom. And then I just wrote, it's not notebook stuff, but I wrote down dick graffiti is the ultimate heckle. It's like nice try with that drawing.

You know what might help? Dicks. Has she seen Harry Potter yet? I think we saw one of them. Because it'd be funny if she sees the Harry Potter and she sees the wand and that. That's funny. Calling it back to the Harry Potter movie

I think is funny. You know what I mean? She's like, dad, I just watched Harry Potter and they're all waving dicks around. Right. Or something like the wand. She now interprets a wand to be a. Yeah, I like that.

I was in Rome. I've been trying to write, I guess I'm just gonna do it. You know, do you have that, I'm trying to understand how to work it out, Mike. Yeah, no, I know. Because it's like, how do you work on what the joke is? You don't mind showing the process. No.

I'll do that on stage, but somehow my weird thing becomes like, well now, what is this? You know what I mean? Like I get stuck in the like, what is the working it out? Am I gonna work it out here? You're like a quintessential example, and I've talked about this on this podcast before.

You're a quintessential example of, there's people like me who like do this. I type out everything, I write notebooks, and then over time I just hone the words and hone the words. You're a person where you're like, you have an idea, and you go on stage at Largo or wherever it is, and you just riff on it and it fucking crushes, and then you figure it out.

And it's just a different process. Or it doesn't crush and I then figure out what works or what doesn't, and abandon the stuff that sometimes I should. I will get lazy though and improvise something and then come back to the improv to, and I'm gonna pitch it now for myself, my new show, Diminishing Returns.

So I'm taking the show back. I hope that's okay, Mike. Diminishing Returns. I realize that is what my show is. But I will slowly, but part of me is like, this is how I should do it is like this, is just like record it all and then the good stuff sticks. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? What is your, do you have new bits you're working on right now that are kind of formed or half formed? Well, I'm like talking about being in Rome because we made this movie in Rome. And like, so I've been talking about Italy in general, and I don't think it's that fucking cool. I think Italy's fine.

I'm sort of like, everybody loves Italian food. You know who else makes good Italian food? Fucking everybody. Everybody. It's the easiest food to make good. Yes, you know who makes good Italian food? Everybody. Yeah.

That's a great line. So I've been thinking about Rome, because I feel like Rome, and we shot this movie there, it was a month of night shoots, it's like the movie all takes place basically like one crazy, rainy, muddy night, and murder, so I'm like wet, we were shooting like an hour outside of Rome, it was like a somewhat actually

not at all what we had imagined. Like when I signed on to do the movie, I was like, I'm gonna go make a movie in Rome. Anyway, so the time I had in Rome was somewhat limited and I really was like, I kept feeling like Rome is like a class trip to Washington, D.C. It's like not, you know what I mean? Right, it's not what you'd hoped.

It's, yeah, it's just like a bunch of buildings made by monsters years ago. That's funny. You know, like. I always thought that when I was in Rome last year where you see the statues of people, and it's like, you know, like in real life, there's like big statues,

but you know that they were just like these tough guys in Jersey, like, hey, get the fuck out of here. Hey, make a statue of me. Yeah, I had the same feeling around, which is like, if you had a statue of you, you were probably a fucking monster. Oh, absolutely. Like a truly terrible person.

Especially if you commissioned it. Of course. Because some of them did. Oh, all the time. So they commissioned their own fucking statues. That's why I only let the fans make my statues. Oh, I only let the fans make the statues. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

If you're a really hardcore fan, you can make a statue of me, but the new fans, if you've only seen one of the specials, don't get near me with those statues. Don't get even close to me with those stupid statues you make of me. That's great though. Yeah.

I love that. Have you been doing it on stage? I've been doing it on stage and it was all sort of like towards like now the press for this movie. And then I'm like, oh, do I hold on to it? Do I keep doing it? But it's a funny thing, when I found unrelatable about it, when I do it in New York and LA,

it's an easier joke to do because people, because I would set up being like, oh, it's a funny thing, what I found unrelatable about it, when I do it in New York and LA, it's an easier joke to do because people, because I would set up being like, oh, it's summertime, don't worry, you're not going to be jealous of your friends who are in Italy this summer. And it works in New York and LA, where privileged assholes have friends who go to Italy, and you're looking at them on Instagram.

But it's not necessarily the most relatable joke to do around the country, where people are like, none of my friends are going to fucking Italy this summer. Totally. Yeah. Here's a, and we'll just move to my last bit. I was in this college town recently and there was this like, this like bro dude hanging out with three girls on a stoop

and this other guy walked by with like a quirky hat and the frat bro just goes, fire beanie bro. And the college kid just shrunk. And I feel like we've spent so much time as a culture obsessing about how college kids are so different from when we were in college. And actually, I think they're exactly the same. I think bullies are just generic bullies through time.

Because I could see the college kid just shrink. And I wanted to say to him, hey, you're going to win in life, don't worry about it. But then I realized that if I said that to him, he would look at me and he would think that's what winning looks like and he's not wrong. Fire beanie, bro. Fire beanie, bro.

It's the beginning of something. Yes, I think that's... Do you feel like you got bullied in college? In college, no, in high school. You got bullied in high school, yeah. 9th grade was tough. When I was in high school, there was a bully named George, and he used to walk up to me and he'd go,

hey Mike, this is you, and then he'd walk at a 45 degree angle, and that was the whole impression, everyone would laugh. That's a pretty funny impression. That's the thing is, the bullies might peak in high school, but if they've got it. Right, if they've got it. Then they've got it and they become like Donald Trump.

Right. You know what I mean? Or Hollywood producers. Yeah. Do you like Hollywood producers? Love them. I love this one. I'm a Hollywood producer.

I know, I love this one. I love this one. Adults adults big mouth Human resources and what's the name of the movie? My movie is a movie. I love it's I think I remember I I I See I understand you I understand you I don't understand you don't understand you I don't understand you I don't understand you. I don't understand you. I don't understand you. I don't understand you, Mike. The last thing we do on the show is called Working Out For A Cause,

and we give to a non-profit. I think there's two that come to mind. The gardens that we just did the event for, or the cancer organization that we've done the benefit for and does amazing work. I've actually talked to backstage at those events to the scientists and doctors and they're incredible. Yeah.

Is it Sloan Kettering? It's Memorial Sloan Kettering. Yes. And it's the show we do every year and we're starting to do other stuff called Comedy Versus Cancer. Yes. And it's amazing.

Memorial Sloan Kettering is one of the foremost cancer hospitals and research centers in the world Comity versus Cancer. It's amazing. Memorial Sloan-Kettering is one of the foremost cancer hospitals and research centers in the world. We're specifically focused on blood cancer research. A lot of stuff that's now moving away from chemotherapy to other treatments that are finding tremendous success. as I think, like slow and cuttering, because they do amazing work. However, let's talk about NPR, PBS, let's cut that funding.

They're taking too much. Wow. And also the other one that I want to say is kudos for taking money trying to cut funding in the national parks. Who costs? They cost almost $15 million a year and then generate $700 million a year. I did not anticipate this kind of a political take from you.

Well, welcome to me, sweetheart. Things are a little different now. Wow. The climate has changed, okay? And I'm changing with it. I'm chasing it. Nick Kroll. Whitney Cummings.

Okay. Nick Kroll, I love you. I love your projects. I love everything you do. I can't wait to see what you do next. I love you too, buddy. Thanks for having me. Working it out, because it's not done Working it out, because there's no... That's gonna do it for another episode of Working It Out.

You can follow Nick Kroll on Instagram, at Nick Kroll. Check out I Don't Understand You in theaters, watch Adults on Hulu. Watch Big Mouth on Netflix. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel at Mike Berbiglia. Check that out and subscribe. We are posting more and more videos. Check out Berbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers of Working It Out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Berbiglia, and Mabel Lewis associate producer Gary Simons. Sound

mix by Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter Una who built the original radio for Made of Pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate and review it on Apple Podcasts. That really helps out. We've been doing the podcast for five years this month. Five years. A hundred and seventy episodes all free.

No paywall. Thanks most of all to you who listen. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell Robert De Niro. Let's say you're an actor in a scene with Robert De Niro. You feel like making chit chat. Don't ask some ridiculous question like, have you ever stayed in a hotel in the city you live in? Come on! Instead, say, Bobby, have you ever heard this podcast while Mike Birbigli is working it out? Or comedian Mike Birbigli works out creative ideas with comedians and creative people, not unlike yourself?

Trust me, try it. Your new best friend might be Robert De Niro. Thanks everybody, we're working it out. We'll see you next time.