Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 176. Jane Wickline & Liva Pierce: SNL, Dukes, and Working Out Songs

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

This week comedy duo Jane Wickline and Liva Pierce (together known as Dukes) join Mike on the podcast. The three discuss how The Graduate brought Jane and Liva together, their unlikely porn preferences, and what happened when Jane showed up to her SNL audition early. Jane and Liva work out a couple songs from their touring show and for the first time ever on Working It Out—Mike’s jokes get set to music.Please consider donating to Samir FoundationGet tickets to Dukes

So this is a song from the touring Dukes show right now. That's In Process, which is good for working it out. And it's a song about basic, it's about what we think about porn. Okay, perfect. They say porn is far too extreme now. Well, it's not extreme to me. All of these films put me right to sleep.

Three sums, four sums, five sums, and I'm just bored. All of these films put me right to sleep Three sums, four sums, five sums and I'm just bored Give me something more A video of sex that shocks me to my core Please Mr. Porn, help don't you understand I want a film to take me by the hand I need newborn to treat me like a friend to take me by the hand. I need newborn to treat me like a friend. Teach me how to be a better man. That is the voice of the great Jane Wickline and Leva Pierce.

This is a really cool episode today. Leva is a stand-up comic actor and writer. Jane is a comic actor and writer. You might know from Saturday Night Live. Jane's done a whole bunch of these weekend update songs and Saturday Night Live is a cast member that are a riot. Together they're the stars of a sketch comedy duo called Dukes, which is co-directed by

our very own working it out producer, Mabel Lewis, along with show Hornbuckle. That sketch show is on tour. It's hilarious. I saw it at UCB Theater in New York. It is fantastic. You can catch that Dukes show this summer in Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago, Minneapolis, San Francisco, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, San Francisco, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Los Angeles, and then at Joe's Pub in New York City, which I'm going to definitely go see.

We will link to their tickets in the show notes. Today they talk about sketch comedy, duo collaborations versus stand-up, what it felt like for Jane to be cast on SNL, how their story mirrors Don't Think Twice, my my movie a little bit. We talk about music. We work on two songs that they're working on for their tour right now that really don't need notes, but we kicked around some notes and ideas and I think it's really fun to talk about the creation

of comedic songs. And I work out some of my own material under Jane playing piano, which is kind of really exciting actually, and maybe a preview of things to come. Thanks everybody for all the feedback on my Netflix special, The Good Life. It has been overwhelming.

It's meant a lot to me. I'm currently writing my next movie, and I'm dipping my toe back in standup a little bit this summer. I'm popping in on John Mulaney's tour for five shows, along with Nick Kroll and Fred Armisen in New Haven, Connecticut, Bethel, New York, Portland, Maine, as well as Garrison Grounds in Halifax.

And September will be in Vancouver at Stanley Park. A bunch of really fun shows with my friends. You can get tickets at Burbigs.com. Check out The Good Life on Netflix now. Enjoy my conversation with the great Jane Wickline and Leva Pierce. How did you get together as a duo because you didn't go to school together, as far as

I understand, but you're young, you're in your mid-20s. How did you get together? I feel like I was aware of Jane from online. I had seen her videos. Both of us were making videos in college. I was making videos more on Twitter and Jane was making videos on TikTok. And then, so I was like aware of you. Yeah.

But we met at a mic, classic place to meet. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. First time didn't take. Then we ran into another. First time didn't take. Then another one, still no. Nothing.

Yeah, we were kind of seeing each other. Over two. You just think we're, yeah. We're seeing each other at the same mic. You're like, but online, I like her so much. What is happening in the IRL? I know. Yeah. Third time.

Third time. Well, we kind of got stuck into talk. We finally kind of had to talk to each other because we were taking the same bus. There you go. I don't know if this is... A long bus. It was like a 30 minute bus. It was a long bus from Williamsburg. And then we kind of...

That's I think what we really said. Who are you? We said, who are you? We talked to her like, it was like a 35 minute bus ride and we decided to watch The Graduate somewhere on the bus ride. And then we went to leave his house. Like someday. No, that night.

Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, we went because I think we've been talking about Sketch, we liked, and we were talking about Nichols and May, of course. Sure. My favorite. And I was like, oh, you know, I love their movies, whatever, and then you were like, I've never seen The Graduate, and I was like, let's watch it tonight, which is honestly,

I don't know why I was being your boyfriend. Was it romantic? Girl, you have to watch this. No. I don't know why I was like, girl, you have to watch this. No, it wasn't a date, it was just a artistic hang? Like, as we recounted, it really sounds like, it sounds like a date, but it wasn't at all. Well, it sounds like someone had an agenda,

a romantic date. It sounds like an agenda, but. But it wasn't. I don't think so. And you both knew it wasn't. Yeah. I don't think so. I'm sorry to watch it.

I also, like, I just, like, didn't, I, like, wanted to make friends. I, like, wanted it so bad, like, I was, like, I had just started. You were, like, new to the city. I like wanted so bad, like I was, I had just started. You were like new to the city. I was new to the city, I just like started. She moved here after me. Liva, were you new to the city? I had been here a little bit longer,

but I was probably, you had come like maybe a couple months ago from Philly, and I had come from Chicago, but yeah, I'd been here a little bit longer. So I knew more people at the mic. Like I remember I kind of was saying hi to people at the mic people was like who's Jane who's this girl? Yeah girl and I said I'm gonna take you I said I'm gonna take her under my Same age same height I'm gonna take her under my wing

I'm actually taller by two inches, so. That true. You're both really tall. You're both really tall. You're significantly taller than me. Are you pushing like six, three? Yes. And Jane's six, one?

I'm six, I'm six, flat. But a real six, like not a, you know, I'm not six in the way many, many are. On SNL you make jokes about how tall you are. That's not that tall. You're taller than Colin. Yeah, I think so. I don't know.

Not Che. I think Che's probably six one. I'm not sure. I have a log of it. Exactly. Catch me. It's worth noting, your show, Dukes, is co-directed by Mabel Lewis, our producer, and Show Hornbuckle.

But tell us more about the show, because all I know is you met and you watched The Graduate. Did you watch The Graduate that night? We didn't finish it. We started it. Which also makes it sound like it was a tape, but it wasn't. Yeah, Jane just went home. But we went home, we didn't finish it, and I have this feeling that if I ever do finish The Graduate, that something bad will happen to Dukes.

So now I feel a superstition around the end of The Graduate. Which also is funny, because it's one of the most famous movie endings of all time. I think you know it. I know what happened. And it's on a bus, no less. At the back of a damn bus. It was on a bus.

So you, okay, so the two of you met, here's what I find funny about this, too, is you met in a way that feels like a date. It wasn't a date, but you were watching a movie, but you didn't finish the movie, which also feels like a date, but also, isn't that what comedy duos are all about? It's a type of love affair, even if it's not actual romantic love.

Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. Tell me more about that thing I just said. I believe it was a yes or no question. So you met and then you were like, let's try to do a sketch. Were you intimidated by the scene? Because that's the thing I get from people

when they ask questions is they're kind of like, where do I start? What do I do? And it's a hard question for me to answer. When I was starting out in like, when I was in college, I was doing mics in like 1998 and it's like, I would say there's like 10,000 comedians in the country, which is an insane amount of comedians if you think about that like 40 are going to

make it. That's like not great odds. I would say right now there's like a hundred thousand if I was going to guess. Yeah, it's crazy. Right? That's crazy. I mean, like what, like when you moved to New York, are you like, oh, so no odds of this working. Yeah, it was definitely like, yeah, I remember feeling very intimidated.

Like, I also am curious, like, when you came and started, when you started micing, like, how would you find out about mics? I would look in and time out New York. That's where we posted it. I swear to God. Oh my God. Hard magazine. I mean, it was online too, but I like, I had the paper time out New York. That's what we posted. I swear to God. Oh my God. Hard magazine. It was online too, but I had the paper Time Out New York and I would go to the back to

the listings of comedy shows. And it would just be like by club? Would it just be by club? Broken down? It would be by club and it would be, yeah, by room. And I would show up and here's the bane of my existence. Sometimes people ask me with Don't Think Twice, who were the people who I was jealous of? And I would show up, and here's the bane of my existence. Sometimes people ask me, with Don't Think Twice, who were the people who I was jealous of?

Because the movie's about jealousy. For me it was Demetri Martin. And the reason why is that I would show up at these mics and if I was lucky, after the third or fourth time going, they'd be like, sure, you can go on. And they'd be like, have you heard of Demetri Martin? Yeah, he's good. I'm like, okay. It was the bane of my existence. So this person's good. They wouldn't be like, you're good.

They'd be like, this person's good. And it drove me nuts. But I think Demetri's great, I consider him a friend, but it did drive me nuts. I feel like there were certain people where you got there and they were the mayor and they knew everyone. That's always a thing, right? There's always you show up at the mic

and there's the mayor of the mic. Someone's shaking everyone's hands. You're like, who is that? And it's like, it's not really just like they've been around the circuit for longer so they know more comedians. But it feels like you're like, oh my God, this person is the king.

No, of course, they're the king. It's funny, the advice that people would give me starting out, and I never wanted to do it, was just like, just hang out. I know. Of course, they're the king. and comforting about it to me is that on any given day between like 5 and 10 p.m. there's like there are like three places where there are a lot of people that you could just show. It's like a party you can show up to. Yeah. Yeah. I would say yeah.

That's why I asked because I was like for us it's Instagram. That's where all the mics are every month of the page. That's your time out in New York. Yeah. That seems pretty user friendly actually. So there's mics but then there's probably too many people. Yes. And then everyone's getting like one minute.

There are mics where it's like- You'll do one, you'll do 90 seconds. Yeah. I feel like the norm at most is like two to three minutes. Are you serious? And you wait like at two hours. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. When I did mics in college,

it was like you get five minutes, and that seemed like nothing. I feel like it affects the way that people are writing jokes in Brooklyn. This is an idea I'm coming up with on the spot, but I do have to. No, no, this is huge. This is huge, right?

Here, let me get a pen, let me get a pen. Yes, this is, I feel like because the mic slots are so short, like when you look at a lot of, I mean when I think about a lot of my friends who are standups, they are writing very short, tight jokes, which is good, but I'm like, I feel like you would think, I feel like for a while I thought of Brooklyn as like, the all-pleased-to-be, like everyone's doing crazy stuff,

like everyone's going to be. Surprising and yeah, I didn't expect that. What's the worst you guys remember bombing on these mics? Together or separate? Just in shows like two-person shows or doing stand-up. Oh my god Like did you ever bomb so bad that you were like I quit? Yes, we have a sketch we had a sketch in our first and second shows called City Council that we were like this is This is our ticket. This is it. No, no, that's how you know. And then we couldn't get through it. Anytime we ran it, we just couldn't believe the words.

It was so funny. How's the audience even gonna get through this? Because we can't get through this. What do you mean, because it's boring? No, because we were laughing. No, because we were like, this is the funniest thing that has ever been written. Oh, you were breaking through it.

Oh my God, yes. And then we did it, and it was like, it was like, undeniably, it also had the- Undeniably, like it was, the show went very well overall and it was like an undeniable bomb and it was like- What was it called? City Council? City Council?

Yeah. So what is the sketch? What is City Council? City's Council is a sketch about two characters going to the town hall because they have too many scarves, hats, gloves, and jewels on them. And they want the city council to help them

with how much stuff is on them. Wait, and it's just shouting about how there's too many jewels and it's untenable. And the humor of this is that they're like entitled people who have too much stuff and like they're complaining about their own thing? Is that the joke of it? Yeah, let's clear the working it out section.

Let's just do this. Just city council a block. What you're looking for, the audience was looking for too. A premise? A premise, what premise, a joke, a point of view. It was also like we were kind of talking in a way where people were like, no one can understand you. We were chatting. Also, we were writing basically.

I feel like sometimes when we edit something, like we'll get the note from our amazing directors showing Mabel that like our writing needs to be clear, then we're like, got it. Then we go back and literally rearrange the words to sound like Yoda is talking. And then put that up and I'm like, we're like, this is funnier. City Council I am at. Yeah, he was like, hats and boots. Pulled upon our arms and all around our ears and heads. Yeah, just like, completely non-strippish.

Yeah, so... So you did City Council, it bombed. Then we decided... How hard did it bomb? Like, were you embarrassed to walk off stage and talk to people? Well, I didn't want to do the next sketch. I'll tell you that. Okay. How many did you have to do?

That was like in the middle of the show. I think we had to do like three or four after that, so it was tough. So Jane plays, you play songs. You did, I think your first song was Party Song on Weekend Update? It's so good. Thanks.

And it was also a little surreal here at the show, because Mabel is our producer. Yes. I'm like, Mabel, your friend, Mabel, your friend, has this hit song on SNL. So what's going on there? Which is also, by the way, I don't think twice, ask situation in the sense that the three of you are friends and the four of you are friends, including show, and then like

one of the friends is on SNL, so then the other ones aren't. So what's that like, Liza? What? I have to check my hand. Wait, wait, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. I thought I was up there too.

You are, you are. You are sometimes. You are sometimes. I'm like, fan some of the opera. Like, at 30 Rock. But no, Jane, it's actually really funny because Jane had actually a whole thing about Don't Think Twice during the audition process. Do you know about this? No, no, I know nothing of this.

Really? Oh, yes. Do you know about this? No, no, I know nothing of this. Really? Oh yes, so yeah, it was a huge part of my, all of our friend, Rain, who at the time I was just becoming friends with, sent a text that was like, I'm having a movie night, we're going to watch this movie called Don't Think Twice. And I like told Levi about it and he was like, you can't watch that right now. I knew he was in the middle of the audition process. It was like three weeks before the screen test

and Levi was like, I know you want to go to this party, you're not allowed to. Oh my gosh. And then- Because I was worried you were so, because it was so, Jane went through so many rounds of auditions, like it took all summer, it took up your whole summer.

Yeah. And so it was like so in the heart of that. And I was just worried that it was going to... I was worried and you were also so worried about if you would become different. And I was worried that that movie was going to scare you. I wasn't worried if I would become different. That makes it sound like I thought it was...

Yeah, that's locked. Aleeva, has she become different? Yeah. Long ten minutes of silence. Thanks for coming on. Yeah. Oh my God, you know what? My car's here.

No. So you were like, don't. But everyone was split. Nice. Our friends were split about whether it would actually be okay for me to watch the movie and I didn't. And also it was like, at the beginning of a friendship it's so important to go to the event.

I sound like I've never had a friend before on this podcast. So I don't think, yeah. But yeah, ultimately I didn't go and then I watched it later. And I think it, I think Leva was right. Probably. Right, it's a lot on the brain.

Yeah, it's a great movie by the way. Oh thanks. Well it's funny like when I,. Yeah. It's a great movie, by the way. Oh, thanks. Well, it's funny, like, when I... There is something from the movie that is intimidating, I think, which is what... I did a series of readings in our apartment with friends, like screenwriters and actors, and Yorma Takone from Lonely Island. He gave notes on a bunch of it.

And he was like, you really have to show when Keegan and Gillian's character go in, them looking at the pictures in the walls of like the past cast members and hosts. And of course they're all fake because we couldn't go to SNL, so we had to make this fake wall of like Mindy Kaling and Aziz Ansari and like all these people who are like stars but actually aren't cast members on these shows.

But the whole idea was like, what is it like to be surrounded by these photos of like comedy royalty and just to be like thrown by it. And did you feel like that when you went in there at all? Like for your test? Were you like, were you intimidated by the space? Yeah, I actually showed up 40 minutes early by mistake to the screen test. And because of that, they let me go into the studio to see it before I was actually going out to audition. It was before everyone had set up.

So I was glad that that happened because I like walked in and I saw the stage and I like immediately burst into tears. I'm like, I'm so glad this is happening when it's not. When no one has set up and then. Like tears, tears like you had to wash your face tears? Or just like choked up? Jenna, the stage manager was like,

it's okay, it happens a lot. I forget what she said, but she was very sweet about it and she was like clearly, I mean I'm sure the screen test, I'm sure that people are getting emotional seeing it for the first time all, like constantly. Yeah.

She didn't seem phased at all and I thought that was funny. And so then- Yeah, it was very- So then when you got cast, did Lauren call you? Did you ask you to go to this office? Who told you? Rebecca Schwartz, the casting executive called me.

So Lauren didn't tell me, but it was right after my interview with him, which was after the second screen test. So it was very, very slow and then very fast. It was as I was walking away from my interview with Lauren. And I also didn't know what I was being hired for, because when you're screen testing, you're screen testing,

it's kind of for writer or cast. And at that point, my reps told me, they were kind of like, we would be shocked if it wasn't writer. We're just kind of like, because I didn't. Because they're supportive. Or just, you know, it's like what I did and I was like, okay. And so in the call I was like, what am I being hired for? And I just don't, either way is amazing.

I just let me know. And yeah, I cried. Yeah, I cried and cried. I've cried in front of so many people there immediately, which is a funny foot to start on. I asked the PDD guys who wrote the sketch with you and Marcelo. Them?

Yeah, I told, well I asked them. You know now, you ask them. Well I asked them if they, because I improvise with them sometimes at UCB and it's super fun. But I asked them, because they were some of the writers on the sketch with you and Marcelo playing the couple who shouldn't be together.

Or like, you don't understand why they're together. Yeah. And they were like, it's partly inspired by like, Jane and Marcelo's actual dynamic at work. Yeah. And imagining what if they were a couple. Basically, they're these characters who, your character is very quiet.

Yeah. And his character is very loud. His character is very loud. We sit next to character is very loud. His character is very loud. Well, we sit next to each other at the read and I was like, I was immediately, I was like, why are we best friends? Right, like he's just like amazing. I didn't like, he's just so fun.

And it is sort of, every time I talk to him, I'm like, this is, like I'm seeing this from above. This is funny. And you're in love with him. And I'm in love with him, of course. And so that's what inspired. And I confided in them, yeah. And I confided, and then they wrote the sketch.

And they wrote the sketch, and I was like, kind of feels like could have gone about it a different way, but yeah. Okay, so you're on tour right now. How are the crowds, what's the demographic that you see a lot, and then what's the demographic that like you see a lot and then what's like the demographic you don't see a lot? Like are you surprised by who shows up?

I would say it was exactly who I expected to see. It was people who looked like us. Yeah, it's like a mirror. Just gay people, you know. It was kind of bisexuals and lesbians coming out. Coming out to support. Sabrina Carpenter came out. Sabrina Carpenter. Did Sabrina Carpenter came out. Sabrina Carpenter.

Did Sabrina Carpenter call you when you did that song about her? I was nervous that I was, I created a whole narrative in which she was mad at me, but then of course it was a complete, complete paranoia. I feel like she would love it. We met and she was so nice and she was amazing, yeah. Has she come to your shows?

Sabrina? Yeah. Oh my God. Every damn week. I, yeah. We can't get rid of her. Front row of every show. She goes stage.

I'm tripping over her backstage. Sunni pulse. So I gave you a couple notes when I saw the show. Was it helpful, not helpful, annoying? It was actually so helpful. So I gave you a couple notes when I saw the show. Was it helpful, not helpful, annoying? It was actually so helpful. Yeah, when you came to our show, you were very kind to call us after. And one thing you said,

well I said like completely transformed our summer work basically, which is like every time you have a blackout, it's slowing down the show and then you have to like win back the audience. So a huge thing we're working on right now and actively talking about is how do we make a sketch show with no blackouts and that is everything is fluid basically

and like one thing and Mabel phrased it well of like so then, so then, so then. Like everything's. Yeah, yeah, that's how I always think of my stories. So then instead of and then. And also like the gold standard of that is, and I just interviewed him last week, it's going to come out in August on this podcast, Bob Odenkirk with Mr. Show. If you watch those Mr. Show, it's all the sketches become the next sketch,

become the next sketch, become the next sketch, and it's like, it's kind of mind boggling. And it's like, if you read his book, it's like, you see like, oh, it's completely by design. How do you do that? Do you like, do you generate a lot first and then string it together? Or do you have, at what point do you come up with what the overarching thing is? So I, so all, it's all generative all the time. Like, like all the cards you see around you on the walls are like, they're seeds of jokes. And like, a lot of them are junk.

You know what I mean? Like, like Oxy at the hotel, it says on the wall, it's just a lady offering me Oxy in a hotel elevator. And it's like, there's not that much to the story. You know what I mean? It's like- Until you run into her. Marriage.

One year later. There's one that says, marriage is teamwork and the only joke is we've lost a lot of games. And it's like, in other words, there's not a lot there. But like, a lot of things are, if you can string things together, five things together, you're like, oh, that could be a beat of the show. If this, so then this, so then this, so then this,

and then it's like a potentially a chunk of the show. And then long term, the goal with my shows is like, that it gets to a point where like, essentially like 40 of these things line up, and it becomes like eight chunks of whatever, five. But yeah, that's kind of the goal. So it's always generative. So like, you know, around here,

like with Gary and Mabel and Peter and Joe, like I'm just kind of pitching jokes like this all the time. you know, around here, like with Gary and Mabel and Peter and Joe, I'm just kind of pitching jokes like this all the time. Is that what you guys are like in terms of generating? Are you bouncing stuff off each other all the time? Like, what about this, what about this, what about this? Yeah, definitely. We're texting each other and sending each other voice memos. And we're very comfortable telling each other when we don't like things, which is like just throwing stuff at a wall.

How do you phrase it? Do you phrase it nicely or meanly? Like sometimes it's just like you don't, like it'll be a lot of messages and you just don't respond to them. Just like Simon and Garfunkel. Yeah. Garfunkel has like a string of texts in Paul Simon's phone. It's like this cat and he's like, yeah. Jane the other day was like, oh you never replied to me about this idea for a song.

And I was like, oh yeah, why didn't I apply? Oh yeah, because I didn't get it. And then I explained it and it was like, no I didn't get it, I didn't like it. What's the best way to get feedback from each other? I think when we know that we want to, it's very clear to know when something is going to be picked up versus dropped because it's like the things, if we bring an idea and the other person is immediately like,

oh, and what about this? It's like, you know there's something there because it's already generating, it's already generative, but if you bring something and the other person is just like, I can't add onto this in any way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't understand where it goes, it's already generative, but if you bring something and the other person is just like, I can't add onto this in any way. Like I don't understand where it goes. It's a dead end. Totally.

You're pitching something to your like one dearest friend and you just have to keep talking because it's like kind of have to keep talking into nothing because you just have to until the silence is filled. No, totally. Like I think sometimes it's like when you're collaborating with people, it's like you're like they come in with the idea and it's like you yes and, they yes and. At a certain point, you get bored of yes anding because it's just not there.

And then you're just like, all right, we'll let that go. What about a new thing? Yeah, totally. So I feel like it's always, before we even say that's good or bad, is this fertile? Does like spark anything at all? So you're doing the show at Joe's Pub in September? End of August. End of August. Do you want to, you brought the piano? Should we try to do a pitch?

Oh yes, should we do a pitch for the video? Yeah, should we talk about some songs? Yes. Yes. That you're working on currently? Yes. That would be amazing. Okay. Did I miss anything, Mabel?

No, I think it was great. I think it's all gold. Woo! I think it's all gold. Woo! I think we'll trim the ore and we'll keep the gold. Keep the first ten minutes. Oh, here we go. Let me move this. We're just going to take the audio we have so far and we're just going to clip it

so it's all the parts where you say you hate each other and you hate each other's ideas. There's a part where I said Jane was worried she was gonna become different and she's like, no I'm not. That's the whole episode. Oh I guess I was worried. Just for the listeners,

just for the listeners, we're setting up the piano right now. This is just some patter on the side. Mabel, did we get it? Did we get it? Okay, so this song that you're working on, you've done twice. Yes. But you're kind of like working on it on the shows through the summer. So by the time it's at Joe's Pub, it's gonna rock.

It's gonna be about something completely different. Do I need to know the staging context of this to help understand it? No. No, okay. It's lyric forward. Lyrics forward. Like Dylan. Like Dylan.

So this is a song from the touring Duke's show right now that's in process, which is good for working it out. Yes. And it's a song about basic, it's about what we think about porn. Okay, perfect. They say porn is far too extreme now Well, it's not extreme to me

All of these films put me right to sleep Three sums, four sums, five sums, and I'm just bored All of these films put me right to sleep Three sums four sums five sums, and I'm just bored Give me something more a video of sex that shocks me to my core I want a porn that's idea-driven and socratic A cerebral porn we're at the peak of the action This stepdaughter asks a really wise question I want a new kind of porn that's less literal Maybe the actors turn to claymation in the middle Or something mixed media like that

Please Mr. Porn, help don't you understand? I want a friend to take me by the hand I need new porn to treat me like a friend Teach me how to be a better man Show me a porn that makes me want to take dance classes Show me a porn that's just a live stream of lightning flashes Show me a porn that lays out a new government Bury a bone for me and let me discover it I've been watching too much porn with my arms crossed Move me to put one hand in my pants And the other on my chin like the thinker I wanna watch a porn that has my childhood best friend in it

And she's laughing and she's saying I forgive you I want a porn that's like the great pyramids of Giza where in five thousand years when they see it They're like how the hell did they make this? You know those videos where a girl is telling you how to jerk off and talking to the camera That's kind of like the porn version of a filibuster. She just says random stuff for an hour, kind of just killing time. Just an idea I had.

That's interesting. I want a porn that's shot over the course of 12 years, like boyhood. Right. And because then you can see like different sexual eras of the characters' lives. Like starting with teen and ending with male. Yes. Exactly.

Show me a porn that makes me want to quit literature. Show me a porn that will make me quit missing her. Porn that convinces me there's something bigger after we die. Please mister porn, her book's so hard to get. I want a genre not invented yet. I need new porn, I put so hard to get I want a genre not invented yet I need new porn to treat me like a friend Teach me how to be a better man Nice. That was the first one. This is Tiny Desk.

Tiny Desk. I'm Michael Biglia, I'm the host of Tiny Desk Comedy Concerts. That was awesome. I mean, it's no no. It's perfect. It's so funny. It's a great song, too. Nice melody.

I love that it goes from specific to broad and esoteric. I just love that. I enjoy it so much. Like from like ridiculous things to like start a government and all that. I had one thought, it's like a random pitch that you might just think is terrible. I wrote down a couple things, but it's like. Oh right, we're recording this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, I just thought like, there is a version of it where you could end the show on it and kind of essentially narrow it down to your describing yourself singing the song that you're singing. It's like, I wanna pour on this two best friends on stage, singing to each other, you know? That's really cute.

But it's like, that might have a good vibe too, also because you could theoretically, like, open the show on the front of the porn song and the show on the front of the porn song and then end on the back of the porn song and the porn song becomes what you're doing. Yes, yeah. This is actually great to hear because we have specifically been thinking about and struggling with intro and closing for a new show.

We've been changing it around a lot. The reason it's exciting to me is like, one, because it's super creative and original and nothing like anything I've heard. And then also just opening and closing on a song. It's kind of like a classic like Second City thing. Or like, yeah, opening and closing the song. It's just like, it leaves people tapping their toes on the way out, which is song, it's just like, it leaves people tapping their toes on the way out, which is like, it's a cliche,

but it's also fucking true. But I think that's great. My only thought is just like, is like ending in a way that is you. Yeah, coming to that, yeah. I love that idea for ending. It's kind of like the end of The Graduate. Have you ever seen The End of The Graduate? No.

Do you have another song you want to work on? Yes, we have one more. This one is farther, I would say. This one, yeah. Farther way. Like, we've done more edits on Poor Song, and this one we have done fewer edits on, so it's earlier. Okay, this is a song about when gossip is so fun that it makes you forget your troubles. Okay.

Life felt so dark, my hair sucked, and my dog was sick. Hated my vibe, my mom fell, my tongue hurt from fruit darkness was closing in I needed a miracle bad that's when I heard gossip that turned things around cuz then my friend did something so insane she slept with the boss who was the ex of this girl who was our other friend she blew up everything, she was devastated but I felt an unmistakable And involuntarily, so we gathered round her on the couch And she asked for advice and the whole thing was just so fun for me And especially, especially because we know everyone involved

Well that was fun, now it's done I am bored again I don't want my friends sad but chaos gives the day's momentum The dark drama's gone The days pass and the days turn into weeks I wondered if the Swedish suicide pods were gone to the US

And how much they will cost But then our friend did something so insane He invited this guy who was kind of his ex To this birthday thing for his other ex And he encouraged them to hook up And then he got all hurt when they did But it's his fault He complained about it on the couch

And we tried not to laugh But inside we were truly happy We were happy And unbelievably the exes had the same first name But it felt so nice, all this gossip To block the field of doom, my thoughts and mind Felt clear and free and it felt so good Rose with the sun, met the day

I felt hope and peace and love for mankind But Jane Yeah, what? I don't want to talk about it What happened? I did something so insane What? I slept with the roommate, I'm my very good friend

What? And didn't tell the friends And then the friend found out Oh my god And it turned out that my friend with the roommate, I'm a very good friend And then tell the friends, and then the friend found out And it turned out that my friend and the roommate Have been hooking up for months Oh my god Well it's been into a giant fight That consumed their whole life And damaged their core friendships irreparably

It was horrible It put me in such a good mood that I texted my ex Do you want to go on a road trip? This is Mike for Big Leo, this is Tiny Comedy Desk Concerts. Tiny Comedy Desk Concerts. I love that song. I feel the same way about gossip. I had one thought on just like pivoting to the gossip, which is like gossip lines that are like, but you're not going to believe this part. You know, or like, but listen to this, or like, no but seriously,

Tina showed up without a costume. Those are just random things I jot down. But that kind of like, the phrasings of gossip. The phrasings of like, when you're like, I shouldn't tell you this. Right, I shouldn't tell you this, don't seriously don't tell me this, but. Yeah, like more conversational.

Yeah, exactly. But like, I feel like if you blew out, like my examples suck, but like if you blew out like all those phrasings of like how you preface gossip, I feel like that would be fun. But I love that song, I think it's great. I don't know, where do you want to go with it? Like, because you're like, it's not as close as the other one, but I'm like, it seems great.

No, I think we're just trying to make the gossip examples right now. They're all kind of, well, we're having this conversation, this is the kind of conversation we have in rehearsal, is like, all of our examples are about hooking up what's gossip that's not hooking up. Right. And so we wanted to kind of diversify the gossip

that we're talking about. Well, it's funny, we in the Please Don't Destroy improv shows that we do, I said to Mabel one day when we were first doing it, I went, what should we get as our suggestion? And she was like, we do gossip sometimes. And we've been doing that ever since. We get great suggestions from the crowd.

It's always amazing. Yeah. You put out a... But you could even do that. You could be like, does anyone have any good gossip? And then you could improvise singing the gossip. Oh, that's good. That's good, yeah. Does anyone have any good gossip? And then you could improvise singing the gossip. Oh, that's fun. That's good, yeah.

Oh yeah, for sure. Does anyone have any good gossip? Like 24 hours before a show, be like the people from this. No, even in real time. You could be like, shout out if you have any good gossip. And then you could try to make a song in real time of it. That's awesome, should we try that?

Yeah, that would be so fun. Especially one of the smaller venues who work well. It's easy, you can just like look right at it. Everyone's right there. Yeah. Yeah. That seems fun right at, everyone's right there. Yeah. That seems fun. Yeah, that's really fun. Yeah, because we just were like, we wanna,

we kind of feel like we're telling the same story a bit, because it's all about hooking up and exes. Right. So we're trying to, I think we're trying to make it more. You also might want to think about what your parents' gossips, friends' gossip is. I always find that's kind of wild.

Yeah. Because it's like, the stakes of it are so different from the thing that you're thinking about. It's like, my dad's friend has Alzheimer's and he's not allowed out of this one room. Yeah, it becomes like judging others. That's a little too dark. That would put me in a good mood, I guess. Yeah, it becomes like judging others. That's a little too dark. That's just too easy to hear.

That would put me in a good mood, I guess. No, honestly, I do feel like my parents gossip a lot about, it's like judgmental of the way that their other friends deal with their aging parents, and they're like, can you believe that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. We would never do that. Totally, totally, but I love that song.

And also, well, one other thought is, one of the thoughts is just making the dark stuff darker. I just think like the way that the show is gonna work, like that song is gonna work, I think, more, is like, it's like impending doom that everyone in the room can feel. And then, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- a fun embrace of like, yeah, but how about this? Right. Yes. My tongue hurt from fruit is just the saddest thing we could think of.

Yeah, yeah, my tongue hurt from fruit is a riot. I love that. Okay, so here's what I got. We'll see if playing piano under it will be anything. Should I tell you what it is? I mean, it's basically just an essay I wrote. Okay. In my book, the new one, I wrote with my wife Jenny and her poems and my stories. But yeah, something like under that, like, this is called,

Me and My Wife on a Plane That's Crashing. My worst nightmare is being in a plane crash with my wife. Not because I don't love my wife, but because somehow I feel like I would be blamed for the plane crash. We'd find out we're going down and she'd look at me and say, I told you we shouldn't have gone on this flight. And I'd say, first of all, you didn't say we shouldn't go on this flight. Second of all, we're visiting your parents in Florida. I didn't want to do either of those things.

I didn't want to visit your parents in Florida and I didn't want to do either of those things. I didn't want to visit your parents in Florida and I didn't want to die in this plane crash. She'll say, nevermind, it doesn't matter. I'll say, okay, but it does matter because you literally just told me we shouldn't go on this flight and that didn't happen. She'll say, you know I hate going on planes. I'll say, right, but everybody hates going on planes.

You can't own the idea of hating going on planes. She'll say, whenever we fly, I always tell you we're going to crash. I'll say, right, but everybody hates going on planes. You can't own the idea of hating going on planes. She'll say, whenever we fly, I always tell you we're going to crash. I'll say, right, but that's the risk you always assume when you fly in a plane. And everything in life is really a risk and reward situation. In this case, the reward is going to be seeing your parents. And the risk was we would die. And as it turns out, we're going to die. So I don't even think we should talk about it anymore.

I think we should just spend the last 10 minutes of our lives enjoying each other's company since we are deeply in love. And I wish to spend the final minutes of my life with you in peace. She'll say, that's what I wanted to do. I'll say, actually, you didn't. She'll say, it doesn't matter. It literally doesn't matter. Oh, look, it seems like they might be able to land

the plane after all. And I'll say, do you know if you can order an Uber to a field? She'll say, I don't use Uber anymore because of the way they underpay their employees. There's that one story in the Times about that driver committing suicide and I'll say, right, but if it's the only way to get out of the field, I think we should make an exception. She'll say, it's up to you. I don't care.

And I'll say, but you just said you cared. She'll say, I would just appreciate it if we could try Lyft first and if Lyft isn't available we can do Uber. In conclusion, my greatest fear is being on a crashing plane and knowing I'm right and being told I'm wrong and then dying. That's it. Amazing!

I like the piano! That was fun! We do a thing called working it out for a cause at the end. And if there's a nonprofit you'd like to contribute to, we contribute to them. We link to them in the show notes and we encourage the listeners to contribute as well. Amazing. Oh, great. Okay. I am going to nominate for this the Samir Foundation, which is a group that supports medical education

and medical resources for medical students in Gaza. Awesome. Yeah. Well, we will contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes. Jane and Leva Dukes, love your show. I can't wait to see it again at Joe's Pub. And thanks for coming on.

Thank you so much. This was so fun. Working it out, cause it's not done. Working it out, cause there's no... That's gonna do it for another episode of Working It Out. You can follow Dukes on Instagram, at Dukes the Show. You can follow Jane Wickline, at Jane Wickline. You can follow Leva Pierce, at Chopped Leva. They're on tour now, see the show, so funny. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel at Mike Birbiglia. Subscribe, we are posting

more and more videos, some exciting new ones coming soon. Check out birbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list and be the first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers of Working It Out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Berbiglia, and Mabel Lewis who is the co-director of the Duke's touring show. Associate producer Gary Simons, Sound Mix by Kate Bielinski. Special thanks as always to my friend Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks to my wife the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter, Una, who built the original radio fort

made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you are enjoying this very unique show that we created five years ago, do me a favor and go over to Apple Podcasts and just say, hey, I like this podcast, and here's an episode that I like the best that I feel like you might get into.

We got over 170 episodes, they're all free, no paywall, tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell your best friend. Maybe some night you say, hey, do you want to watch a classic movie and then not watch the rest? And then afterwards, when we would have watched the rest, we listen to an episode of a podcast where two creatives work out their own creative process and maybe give each other a few tags.

Thanks for listening, everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.