Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out - 18. Jon Favreau & Tommy Vietor: Pod Save Birbiglia

Episode Date: October 5, 2020

Mike chats with two of the co-hosts of “Pod Save America” about voting, working in the White House, getting high at Water Country, and “unf—ing the supreme court with small-d democracy.” What happens when a comedian talks candidly with President Obama’s speechwriter and one of the members of his national security team? Find out. It’s a good one. And vote! Please consider donating to: Vote Save America: https://votesaveamerica.com/donate/

Hey everybody, we're back with another episode of Working It Out. I am so excited for this episode. A couple of quick live updates. I'm performing two outdoor shows, safely distanced, tomorrow evening in Connecticut, 5.30 and 7.30. A few tickets left. And then if you're nowhere near Connecticut, I'm doing three virtual standup shows in two weeks from now. All different material from the last virtual show, which is sort of mind boggling and intimidating. But I think it's gonna be fun.

The last one was great. Get tickets for any of these things on Burbigs.com. Sign up for my mailing list. I couldn't be more excited for today's episode. I wanted to do something special for the election. I took a big swing. I asked the guys from Pod Save America, who have a voting initiative called Vote Save America, to join us. I was shocked they said yes.

I have fooled them. They are former members of the Obama administration, which leads to discussions of government and speech writing in relation to comedy writing, as well as voting and life, and even a whole bunch of new jokes I wrote just for this episode. I hope you enjoy my chat with Tommy Vitor and John Favreau. I was thinking about this talk today because it's unusual for my Working It Out show because usually it's comedians. And I was was thinking when you guys do interviews you have to worry about uh gotcha questions but this is the opposite

we we have gotcha covered questions i was worried that we have to be funny for this i'm like no no i don't know if i can be funny at all no no no no, no. You don't have to be funny. I mean, it's just... Look, John, just to coin a phrase, it is what it is. It certainly is. It certainly is. No, no, there's no pressure to be funny, and it's got you covered questions.

I'm basically your Fox News. I love it. Perfect. That's fantastic. You're fair and you're balanced. I wonder if you ever have run into this. How should, for the listeners, how do we distinguish your voices? I think John has a higher voice, and Tommy is the base of the acapella group.

I think that's fair. I didn't know that me and Tommy sound the same. Do we sound the same? You know, so I do the Weem Away, and John does the same. Do we sound the same? You know, so I do the a-weem-a-way and John does the more alto. I like that a lot. Every once in a while, if you could just do an a-weem-a-way,

that would be wonderful. I'm in. That sounds great. The listeners would really appreciate it. What's funny is I've known Tommy for a few years through our friends Chris and Crystal. And John, I don't is I've known Tommy for a few years through our friends Chris and Crystal. And John, I don't think I've ever told you this. John, I've known at a distance for a long time because my father went to the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts.

I only knew that because I found that out in your book when i read your book yeah yeah and uh and so my and so they are av my parents are avid readers of the alumni magazine and so i've been receiving updates on john's career since the early 2000s you know michael john favreau went to holy cross and he works at the White House. I know, mom. I've been on Letterman. Well, John Favreau was the valedictorian. I know, mom, he was the valedictorian. That's my relationship with you. Notable alumni, me, you, Clarence Thomas, and Chris Matthews. That's who we got. No, not me. I'm Georgetown. I'm Georgetown.

Oh, right, right. Your father. That's right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. That's what I meant to say, not me. I'm Georgetown. Oh, right, right. Your father. That's right. That's what I meant to say. Your father. Those are the notable alumni there. And then, Tommy, I was thinking about your... I was thinking about my relationship with what your career has been to date and it's... I took a... I went to Georgetown and I took

an international relations class like a 101 my freshman year because the School of Foreign Service is so esteemed at Georgetown. So I thought, well, I should try to do something like this just to understand what it is. And the first class, which I think is the softball class, was so over my head that I understood nothing else for the rest of the semester. that I understood nothing else for the rest of the semester. In fairness, I don't think I could pass a Georgetown class on what I did.

You get a job at the White House. No one knows what they're doing. And so they just push you into the pool, and you kind of are in charge of your little section, and your job is to tread water until you figure it out. And that's what happened with me on foreign policy, to be perfectly honest. That's funny, because I was thinking that I was like, were you ever in like, serious meetings where sort of everyone knows what you're talking about, except one person? And everyone sort of knows who that person is?

Oh, and more often than not, I was that person. I mean, the problem with the sort of foreign policy national security world is there's so many acronyms and terms of art and sort of, you know, things that are just government speak. And if you don't understand what those terms are, you don't understand the rest of the conversation. It's like math class, right? When you screw up one step, you lose the rest. And I remember feeling incredibly sheepish, sort of, you know, intimidated by this. And then the first trip Obama ever did, we went to North Carolina, I think Camp Lejeune, and he gave a big speech. But afterwards, someone pulled me aside and I grabbed lunch with a group of people, including Bob Gates. And he was like, how's the job going? And I was like, a lot of acronyms, sir. And he starts laughing and he's

like, I got to tell you, I don't even understand most of them, but I have the, I have the standing to say, wait, explain what you just said and ask. And I was like, oh, that's a pretty good lesson. What do you guys, that's fascinating. What, what do you guys, what was your biggest shift from not working like in the white house and seeing it from afar to working in the White House and seeing it from afar to working in the White House and going like, oh dear, that is completely different than what I thought. We worked on a campaign

and so the campaign sort of takes up your entire life. But the White House is different because your schedule is never your own. So you're held hostage to all the news that happens around the world. So even if you're a, even if you're outside the white house, if you're like at home, if you're at a bar, news, news breaks in the world. And immediately you look at your Blackberry and you're like, Oh, that might cause me to go back to work right now. So there's like no time that you're safe from work. it's like it it's like

being a dad it it is that's how i'm feeling now i was gonna say so the i first heard of you mike because tommy said there's this like brilliantly funny comedian you gotta check him out right and i was like absolutely and then i was like so I watched your first stand-up special and then I knew that you had the new one out recently. And so it was October of last year and I didn't know what the special was about at all.

But it was the day when my wife and I, my wife Emily and I found out that she was pregnant. It was completely unexpected. We did not know that we did not plan this at all. And partly because I was very nervous. I was like, you know, the election's coming up.

Let's just wait till afterwards. So we find out, we're stunned. We're like wandering around all stunned. She's like, let's just watch some TV. Calm down, it'll be great. And so I was like, yeah, Mike Birbigli has a new special. Like, let's check it out. And we watch it.

And of course, the entire special is about you being terrified about being a new parent. And my face went so white that Emily turned to me and was like, do you want to shut this off? Are you okay? Because you don't look good. It was a terrifying experience. And I told her I was recording this podcast and she's like, oh, I just saw his special again.

It's much funnier now that we have the baby. Oh, that's great. Yeah. That's a good before and after story. It's a good, yeah, it's very good. Mike, can I tell you a before and after story? Oh, please, yeah. So just so the listeners know,

so you had a friend from college who turned out to be an incredibly successful investor and philanthropist and just like great human being named Chris. I got to meet Chris because he did a lot of great stuff for Obama. So you and I both got invited to this weekend at Chris's place in Montana, where it was like us and then 25 actually smart and successful people. Easy, Tommy. Please, please. Like, you know, people who had founded, like, Fortune 50 companies. I get it. I get it.

So you and I, I think, you and I sensed that we both had a, like, lesser stature, right? Amongst the tech geniuses, right? So we gravitated towards each other. And I'm like, okay, this guy's so nice. He's really cool. This is going to be fun. He's going to be my friend for the weekend. Then we go back to the place where we're staying

and someone turns on a comedy special. And I'm like, what is this? This is hilarious. I was sitting far from the TV. I didn't really see the face up close. All of a sudden, you walk upstairs and I realized it's you on the fucking TV. And I'm like, God damn it.

I just got, This guy just owned me 30 seconds after I felt good about myself. But then, after that, I became an evangelist for Thank God for Jokes because I think it's one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life and my favorite comedy special. It's so rewatchable, too. I don't know. I've seen it maybe 10 times.

It's become oddly more relevant as it's aged because there's more and more things that are third rail topics to discuss, I feel like. But thank God for jokes. It's all about jokes and how jokes can make us closer but also make us farther apart. And right now, we're all, all as a country really far apart and even like when i pitch you some of the jokes later like i struggle i don't do a lot of political comedy but like i struggle with like i don't know how to tell jokes in this climate because we can't all agree on facts and facts are what setups are and if you have no setups you have no punch lines

i will tell you one joke we can all share I tell the David O. Russell story like it happened to a friend of mine me too like I'm like one person removed from it I've told that story so many times yeah

John is Joe Biden with that story it happened to him by the end of this podcast for the listeners who don't know the David O. Russell story it's from my special thank god for jokes where i use uh david o russell's profanity laced diatribe from when he shouted at lily tomlin on the set of i heart huckabees and then i did a roast joke of him at an award show anyway there's a follow-up to that story that I've never told. I told that at the Directors Guild Honors a couple years ago, and Meryl Streep was speaking also. And so she was in the audience for me telling that story. And it was one of these things where I'm like, I'm just going to fucking tell this David Russell story. I don't give a shit. What are they going to do to

me? And so I tell that story. And then I'm backstage with Meryl Streep, whom I've never met. And she goes, good for you for telling that story. It is a boys club and it's about time we talk about it. That was pretty awesome. So, yeah, you're a little bit of a hero. That's good. Amazing. It's Meryl Streep. I mean, when you're Meryl. That's good. Amazing. It's Meryl Streep.

I mean, when you're Meryl Streep, you have to give people a Meryl Streep story, right? I mean, I guess that's what it is. Yeah. You guys have, I imagine, by the way, you guys have, I was thinking about your life, which is you both worked in the Obama White House. It's like, is your life filled with people being like,

can you tell Obama? And then just like a long diatribe of things. Yes. Or Michelle. Or can you tell Michelle or Barack something? Or like anyone. I mean, I was a couple of weeks ago, we were like on a walk in our neighborhood and one of our neighbors, whom I had not met yet, walks out of his house and just yells to me down the street, hey, tell Joe Biden he's got to go to Kenosha or he's going to lose the election. He's got to go to Kenosha. Could you get a message to him?

And I was like, the fuck? I'm just on a walk, man. That's hilarious. I like it when they tell me that Michelle has to be VP. You get that a lot? All right. Yeah, let me, wait, hold on. Let let me jot that down let me text myself that uh that idea got it so i have been a fan and a listener of pod save america and uh tommy's

podcast pod save the world and a whole bunch of your podcasts and uh having you guys on the show today in some ways is the closest i could come to getting booked on pod save america hey this is the one after the election well i was gonna say once we can do live shows again wouldn't that be great yeah yeah i might title i might just title this episode pod save berbiglio great just dine out on your name i was actually thinking that if biden loses you might have to just title this episode Pod Save Birbiglia. Dine out on your name. I was actually thinking that if Biden loses, you might have to have an episode of your show called Pod Didn't Save America.

Yeah. I can't even. It's a hard one to think about. It's a hard one to think about. You know what's so funny, Mike? These things evolve so much over time. When we thought of the name Pod Save America, the company was me, John, and John Lovett.

And we were just like, we had nothing. We barely incorporated. We were, it was like ironic and goofy. And I think over time, people started to think it was literal. Yeah. And it's so funny to me. Like, I thought we were making fun of ourselves and speaking to the futility of yelling into a microphone as political pundits. But, you know, I guess you could take it a different direction. Well, it's funny because

when certainly it has, I mean, like you have, you know, millions of people who listen to your shows. And the thing that I wanted to say to my listeners today, just because now they can vote in a lot of states. And if not this week, in the next few weeks, there's early voting almost everywhere. And I would say like, I would say a majority of my listeners are people who are going to vote. I think it's safe to say, but I want to know from you guys, even like bullet points, one or two, or even three things that they can do that would be the next step? Like what's step two? What's next step three of how can you help even more?

You're going to go to votesaveamerica.com. You're going to adopt a state, which is we have six, the six closest battleground states we are asking people to adopt. So what does that mean? So you pick North Carolina, Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, or Arizona.

And if you sign up for one of those states, we will send you from Vote Save America just about every week, a number of volunteer or fundraising opportunities that you can do in that state. We've worked with sort of local officials and activists on the ground to make sure we're not duplicating efforts.

So this is coming right from the folks in those states who are organizing and trying to win them. And so you can either make phone calls, text bank, you can donate money to some local groups that are trying to get out the vote. So we have a whole slew of activities that you can do if you adopt one of those six states. Yeah, I just say generally, if your listeners can vote early,

it would be great if they could just get the vote done, bank it. And then if you do that, text five of your friends, especially they live in battleground states and make sure they make a plan to vote early. And then just the last thing there's, we all know who Donald Trump is. That's sort of baked in. There's not a lot of pro-Biden social media content or commentary out there. So if you, you know, we can help people with this, but if you really like Joe Biden's climate change plan, you know, post about it, talk about it with your friends

because people need to understand that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, and we have all this stuff on Vote Save America and we've tweeted it and it's on our Instagram account. But if you go to Vote Save America for every big issue, we have the Biden plan and the Trump plan and very easy to understand, accessible, shareable graphics.

Well, the Trump plan is quite short. It is. There's more jokes than actual fun in there. I am going to step out of this conversation with Tommy and John, which I love, to send a shout out to our sponsor, Magic Spoon Cereal. In my last episode with Pete Holmes, we talked about cereal and being a child and loving cereal. And I'm on a cereal kick again. and being a child and loving cereal. And I'm on a cereal kick again.

And part of that is because I've been eating Magic Spoon, which is so tasty. There's four flavors, cocoa, fruity, frosted, and blueberry. It tastes amazing. It's sugar-free. It's keto-friendly, gluten-free, grain-free. A lot of frees, but tastes great. Go to magicspoon.com slash berbiggs use the promo code berbiggs at checkout to get free shipping and now back to the show

this is a thing we do on the show called the slow round and and a lot of this is based on sort of memories from childhood and things like that. And actually, the three of us all grew up in Massachusetts, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. I grew up in Shrewsbury, Mass., outside of Worcester. So I think theoretically all of us grew up near the Jordan's Furniture advertising campaign. Wolfham, Nashua,ua avon and redding jordan's furniture motion odyssey avon and reddy come come come come jump on mom the motion odyssey movie ride that was you oh you have a good memory did you ever go to motion odyssey movie ride

yes i did i begged i begged my parents to go because I love that shit. Me too. And we drove by on the highway so many times that I would yell out the car window, Mama, and then finally they took us, and it was fine. That and Water Country. Oh my God, Water Country! Water Country, Water Country.

Have some fun! My brother and cousin would sing, Hepatitis, hepatitis. We got thrown out of Water Country, me, my brother, and my sister. My brother and cousin would sing, Hepatitis, hepatitis. Oh, my God. We got thrown out of water country, me, my brother, and my sister. My brother got super high, and we were going around the lazy river, and he started gunning the tubes at the lifeguards,

and then he refused to get out, so they just followed us around the lazy river for an entire mile as we left. I never thought I'd say this, but what a great idea to get high and go to a water park. Yeah. It was fun. Yeah.

I mean, I've never done it, and I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon under the circumstances. Few obstacles in the way. It does seem like a great idea. This is another slow round question. Do you have anything that's like a memory that you have on a loop in your brain that isn't really a story, but it's just sort of a memory that sticks with you? The memories that like really stick with me

from when I was a kid often have to do with me just being a prick as a little kid. I remember like a swim meet event where I was like sort of like a swim meet event where I was like, sort of like a, just kind of a brat about it and didn't try and didn't swim hard, even though it's supposed to be a fun thing. And it's, I probably was 11 years old and I feel bad about it to this day. And I, and I don't even know who I would apologize for. It's like the thing Sunday night at 11 PM, that memory is going to come take a visit. Wow.

I always remember the more embarrassing memories. And so the one that always runs through my head is I was in fourth grade and we were all lined up to go to lunch and we were waiting in line and I was at the top of the stairs along the railing and then everyone else was lined up on the stairs going down.

And so I'm looking over at all my classmates lined up on the stairs from the railing above. And suddenly I feel really, really ill. And I ended up throwing up on a bunch of kids' heads. Oh, my gosh. And when I threw up, I, like, tried to miss it. But I ended up throwing up. And the memory that I have is both that and then like being in the boys' bathroom, watching a number of my classmates

have to wipe off the vomit. Oh my gosh. I was not super popular because of that for a little while. I have to be honest. That's brutal. I was curious about when you guys had your political awakening in terms of a point of view? Because when I went to college, this is sort of an embarrassing thing,

my first week of college at Georgetown, I joined the college Republicans. And a few weeks later, I got a girlfriend, and then I left the college Republicans. Nice. When I went to Holy Cross, I was sort of interested in politics. But like you said, I didn't I didn't have like an ideological worldview. And Holy Cross is actually has some fairly conservative elements. Like sure, I was a political science and sociology major. And like a lot of the political science department was quite conservative. And and I had a lot of

conservative professors. And then I had like, you know, basically socialist communist professors in the sociology department. So college actually taught me how to argue really well and debate different points of view because it wasn't like a completely liberal campus. They were like, in fact, I helped start the college Democrats on campus because we had college Republicans

and then we had like people protesting the Iraq war who were like very far to the left, but there were not a lot of folks in the middle. I happen to know from the Holy Cross alumni magazine also from that period that there were protests, I think when you were there, of the vagina monologues being performed. Holy shit. I have not thought about that in years, you are correct there were that's the first time i remember that in a long time because conservatives don't like vaginas well no so when i when i gave the um i gave the commencement at graduation and chris matthews was the speaker

and because chris matthews was he said he's personally pro-life, but politically he's pro-choice. He believes in choice. And they all, like, people protested Chris Matthews speaking at our commencement. Wow. Because of that. Yeah. Even though he said he was personally against abortion. It was fucking crazy.

And I remember going to the president of the college and saying, well, I'm giving the commencement. I'm pretty pro-choice. Is that going to be a problem? And he's saying, well, I'm giving the commencement. I'm pretty pro-choice. Is that going to be a problem? And he's like, well, no. When you were the valedictorian, does that mean you were number one in your class or were you voted on as valedictorian?

What they do at Holy Cross is, I think they take the top 10 maybe GPAs and then everyone writes a speech and then they pick the speech that they want. You got to be fucking kidding me. That's how they do it there. I'm sorry, but Tommy, can we make fun of John for a second? I mean, is there anything that can be done?

I mean, our friend group has called him the valid dick for decades. That is true. That is very true. You need to be mocked more. You need to be taken down a notch. Mike, there is no shortage of mockery in my life from Tommy and my other close friends. What is the oddest event you've ever witnessed,

but you weren't a part of it? Oh, the Donald Trump's inauguration. Is it really? Is that really? No, but I'm saying in person. I'm saying in person. That I wasn't a part of. Like, you ever, like, I had one where,

I was in Pittsburgh once doing a show, and I was walking home to my hotel, and I was in an alley, like in a dark alley. And I, there were two people. I realized that there were two people having sex on top of a car and they were both come.

I'm not exaggerating completely naked. Wow. And I thought that is an odd circumstance to find yourself having sex on top of a car completely naked but but i think but i've i've told that story before and people people have said to me they were probably on ecstasy and i was like oh okay i got it okay i don't know that's a tough one to to match there yeah that's a good that's a very good one. I'm trying to think. I'm drawing a blank. I'll come back.

It's okay. We can circle back. How about this? Did you, what's the best advice anyone's ever given you that actually worked? I think I was told to always focus on what you want to do and not what you want to be. And think about the work that you like

and not the title you want or the job that you want. And I've always thought that's incredibly good advice. Especially because when I jumped on the Carrie campaign out of college, I was like paid $20,000 a year, lived in a gross apartment, just basically broke. But I knew that I really wanted to do politics. I thought it was gonna be cool. So I tried. And I didn't, you know, it wasn't law school, which my parents had envisioned for me. And I didn't ever ended up taking the LSATs. But I'm, you know, it sort of set the course for the rest of my life.

By the way, when I was in when I was in college at Georgetown, I used to live on 34th and O, and I actually walked by John Kerry like at one in the morning or something, walking his dog. And I'm from Massachusetts, and so I'm just like, I'm just going to talk to him. How'd that go?

I go, sir. It actually was fine. I go, sir, I'm from Massachusetts. I'm one of your constituents. It's like one in the morning. He's walking his dog. And he goes, well, how's it going at school? And I go, you know, it's going pretty well,

but most of my time is spent doing comedy. I'm working the door at the Washington, D.C. Improv, which is a comedy club on Connecticut Avenue. And he was friendly. He was like, oh, I'll try to come by sometime or something like that. But I did think, like, when I met him, and I think that this is probably true of a lot of politicians who reach that stature, I did think, oh, that guy's going to be the president.

I mean, this is the late 90s, but I thought, that guy is wildly charismatic. Like, he's going to be the president. I mean, this is the late 90s, but I thought, that guy is wildly charismatic. Like, he's going to be the president. But then when it came to translating it to the television, it just couldn't, it didn't work. Yeah, he's sort of, he's a wonderful guy, and I think he's very, very smart. And I'm, like, so glad he ended up being our Secretary of State. I think he did a fantastic job.

Yes, yes. And Tommy, what was yours? like so glad he ended up being our secretary of state i think he did a fantastic job yes yes and tommy what was yours no just it reminded me of uh uh this one time where i saw john carrey having sex on a car um it was just it was very similar to your story initially he was in fact on ecstasy yes he was no i just like my listen i, the luckiest thing that ever happened to me was getting a job with Barack Obama. But there was sort of a key inflection point there. It was 2003, I worked for the John Edwards for President campaign, and we lost to John Kerry. And so I, you know, raced back to D.C. and interviewed for a job on John Kerry's team for the general election. And I got offered this gig.

But by the time I did, I had found Barack Obama. I had read his book. I had reached out to some people I knew on the campaign. And I just knew in my gut that that was the job I wanted. That was the person I wanted to work for. And so I turned down the presidential campaign. And everyone told me that was an insane thing to do. The best way to move up in the world is to work on a presidential. But I just knew

that this is the job I was passionate about. It was this Senate race. And that changed the course of my life. And it was not, you know, some wisdom. It was just being kind of like a dumb 23 year old. And you're like, no, I'm going to do what I want to do here and be broken unemployed but worked out but what what what was the actual advice the advice was basically like if this is the human being like that inspires you that's who you should work for yeah that's who you should seek to work for and if john kerry is not that person that's okay it doesn't make him bad or you bad it just that's not the job for you it's interesting i was thinking about what favreau does as a speech writer. It just, that's not the job for you. It's interesting. I was thinking about what Favreau does as a speechwriter. And I was like, it's not that dissimilar

to write a one hour State of the Union address and a one hour comedy special or a solo show, which is what I work on. But it's also, it's the same format, which is an hour to sort of keep people's attention. But in my case, it's like, my director and I work on like, what's a story that leads to the next story that leads to the next story that leads to a one large story at the end that feels surprising, yet inevitable and sort of ties in all the elements. And so that's what we're always, my director Seth Barish and I are always working on. And I was curious, John, like when you're developing like a State of the Union, let's say,

like what is the structure of that that is going to keep people interested? And also, what keep people interested who might not want to hear what you're saying or what the president is saying yeah well first of all it's a heck of a lot less fun to write a fucking state of the union speech than a one-hour comedy special so i'll just i mean the problem with the state of the union is it's not it's not the typical kind of speech that you'd write because you you aren't able to sort of connect a bunch of stories which even though they're not comedy specials in a really good speech that is what you want to do you know like so the so obama's best speeches do tell a story um maybe not just anecdotally like

just a bunch of anecdotes but sort of have a beginning middle and, and an end because that's how people hear things and sort of like, you know, and remember things. But, no, I think like the process with Obama was he and I would just sort of sit down and whatever the topic was, I'd be like, all right, you got to give a speech on healthcare.

You know, what's on the top of your mind? And he would just talk for 30 minutes and I would take notes. And then it would basically, and then I would spend the next couple weeks, like, you know, the policy folks the top of your mind. And he would just talk for 30 minutes and I would take notes. And then it would basically, and then I would spend the next couple of weeks, like, you know, the policy folks have their policy that they need to get in there. And so there's a lot of business that has to get done in some of the speeches.

But your job is to make sure that there's still poetry in it, that it still flows well, that it has a logic to it. Because one of the problems with a lot of political speeches is they are literally just collections of applause lines.

Sure. And, you know, and they're just like quotes for the press and reporters and soundbites and all that kind of stuff. And those are, that's fine if you're just looking for a line from the speech to like be on Twitter or be quoted in a news story. But if you actually are like writing for an audience to listen and be captivated by a speech, then as you know, when you put these specials together, there has to be a flow and logic to it.

It's weird though. Some people are going to tune in to hate it. Yeah, that I don't care. I mean, that I don't really give a shit about as much. Like you know that there's some people who are going to hate it, but you still, you don't care about them as much as you write it to, you write it for an audience that is as broad as possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I was working on the speech, I'm like, okay, if there's a Republican out there who's not like a crazy Trump Republican, right? Like a hardcore MAGA hat wearing person, Like they're not going to like the speech.

But if there's a Republican who like doesn't agree with us on every issues, is reasonable, is like wondering what this person is going to say, like what would they find compelling? But also what would a Democrat who's very liberal and progressive find compelling? And like, can we sort of write something that appeals to like as many people as possible without seeming sort of fluffy and like there's nothing there at all.

Right. So that's all the two things that you're trying to balance is like the more accessible you get, you don't want it to be. If it's a speech for everyone, then it's a speech for no one. Yeah. So you've got to meet somewhere in the middle. So you've got to meet somewhere in the middle. Stepping away from my conversation with Tommy and Jon Favreau to send a shout out to Each and Every. This is a deodorant, a gender-inclusive deodorant

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Use promo code burbigs to get 30% off your first purchase. That's pretty good. Again, it's promo code Burr Biggs, each and every.com. And now back to the show. So I'm going to run some jokes by you that would have been on a tour that I had planned called the Stand Up and Vote Tour in April where I was going to colleges to register voters and put on a free comedy show. And I had started to write all these jokes, and so I thought I'd sort of bounce them off you

and have them for our listeners here. And if people want, feel free on social media, if you want to post these, but make sure you at me so that you're not stealing my joke you know i i want credit for the joke but feel free feel free to use them but i i the first one is i didn't used to care about voting uh before now and but now i'm like when can we vote again i'm just wandering into high school gymnasiums, pulling down levers at random,

pulling fire alarms, because it's an emergency. And it's a weird type of emergency because some people don't think it's an emergency. And they are 40% of America. Isn't that weird? It is this weird thing where it's like, imagine if there's a fire at a school

and you're going like, we got to get everybody out. And some people are like, I'm not sure there's a fire. Let's do an investigation. You're like, we don't need to investigate. Mike, I feel that way about COVID. You know what I mean? It's like there's a global pandemic that's killed 200,000 people.

And we're like, hey, could you do the bare minimum and just play Xbox at your house for a couple of weeks and then wear this little piece of cloth on your face? And everyone's like, no, absolutely not. Freedom. That's one bridge too far. There's plenty of people who don't understand that it's an emergency,

but there's also like a number of like really rabid Trump supporters who do think it's an emergency, but in their view, the emergency is if like Joe Biden and Democrats get elected. Like they actually, they, they are very, very worried during this election.

They're very on edge just in a completely different way than us. Yeah. And then I, and then I wrote what, what's sad is that there's a rift between my dad and me about politics because his generation sent my generation to college so that I could go to college and learn that we should listen to scientists. And then I came home and my dad is like, I don't know about these scientists. And he's a doctor but apparently when you believe in science these days you get called

a coastal elite that's what people call me just because i live on a coast and i'm better than other people that's uh that's you know everything's there's a lot of name calling people call me a coastal elite but i find that term offensive to high ranking members of the coast guard can you imagine if i showed up to a meeting of the coast guard and with my brooklyn buddies with our mustache wax and pour over coffees and was like ahoy captain coastal elites on board and we don't want children in cages. And to prove how strongly we feel about it, we're prepared to post about it on social media. Ira, fire up the GIFs.

Get that hashtag trending. The Coasties might like that. They don't get enough credit for the work they do. They might be into this. They might lean into the joke. Tommy, is Coasties, is that lingo? Is that like NSC lingo? Yeah, I mean, I do think they're commonly referred to as Coasties.

Remember when I went to Haiti for those that week right after the earthquake and just slept down there? I spent a lot of time on Coast Guard ships and grew to be incredibly impressed with those guys and all the work they do. Those men and women, I should say, and all the work they do. Do you guys think that the Coasties in the Army and the Navy have sort of seen this president for who he is at this point? Because I feel like he's crossed the line in so many different ways. I think that there's a schism in the military where the senior leadership is very conservative and very white. And there are probably groups of

them that like what he's doing a lot. The rank and file in the US military is far more diverse, far younger. And I think you can see in some opinion polling that they are not thrilled with either his leadership or the position they've been put in, for example, like, you know, brutalizing protesters. Sure. Yeah. The other term that I'm called often on social media or Breitbart is that I'm a Hollywood elite, even though I've never lived or worked in Hollywood. And it's sad for me because I auditioned to be a Hollywood elite and I didn't get it. They gave it to Paul Rudd. Mike, when did Breitbart find you? When did they start lifting you up and going after you? It must have been four or five months ago. And they just started including me in sort of a rundown of Hollywood elites tweet, tweet opinions about things. But man, I posted about it the other day.

I did a screenshot of it because they just get so much wrong. And I'm like, who is minding the store over there? No one, yeah. A funny thing that happens to me is that, well, it's not to me, but a bunch of right-wing pundits and conservative websites will sometimes attack the other Jon Favreau, the actor-director.

So they'll take my tweet or my political opinion, ascribe it to the director of Iron Man, and then attack him as a Hollywood elite in their blogs or whatever they have. Yeah, so poor Jon Favreau gets a lot of incoming about his political ideology. Can I tell a story about Jon and Jon Favreau? The other day Jon, Emily, his wife, my wife Hannah and I

were all hanging out together and Jon was like, why did Bob Iger just email me? And he opens it and starts scrolling through and he got notes on the Mandalorianorian season two wrong email wrong and look and i just i added my own notes um to bob's email and i thought you know hopefully they took um i i but anyway more on this generational rift i i it's a cliche in movies when the old cop is like, I'm too old for this shit. But my parents really are

too old for this shit. They're 80, and in their lifetime, they've had to adjust to the invention of computers, ordering things on Amazon, and then receiving emails from fake accounts

that are nearly identical to Amazon that are trying to rob them. They are too old for this shit and there are things i'm too old for too like tiktok like i'm supposed to make music videos do i work for you i'm too old for this shit even my five-year-old daughter looks up from her virtual school once in a while is like i'm too old for this shit and she's right we're all too old for this shit it's hard i mean that i i'm just trying to you know it is it is challenging i feel i feel like people the listeners might relate to this is like my parents they're 80 and they are the victims and

i write about this in my book, but they're victims of misinformation, emails and things like that. And they send them to me and my brother, Joe, and we have to send them back like a factual article that disproves that thing. But then it just sort of sits there. And it's like, my dad's a doctor. Like, I mean, if he's a really smart guy,

he's got a law degree, he's a doctor, then what on earth are they doing with people who aren't bright? Yeah. I think it's one of the biggest problems we face as a society. I mean, it's hard to explain to anyone today that Facebook back in the day wasn't a thing for boomers to spread memes. It was an elitist app for college kids who went to Ivy League schools, right? It's bizarre.

But now, I mean, it's just supercharged as disinformation spread. Because, look, I don't know about you guys, but if you see something crazy sounding once, you dismiss it. If I see it two, three, four, five times, you're like, well, there's got to be some truth to that. And I think that's what happens. These things just, they build inside these information platforms like a cancer. And I don't know how we really get rid of them without some sort of regulation.

It's a huge problem. I, like, my parents sort of went the other way, which is like, they were always good Massachusetts Democrats. But I feel like, you know, in the, since the Trump era, maybe a little before, they've been like sort of radicalized by MSNBC or whatever. Sure. Now they're on Facebook, especially my dad, just like just fighting with relatives and neighbors

who are Republican all day long. And I don't go on Facebook, but I'll hear from friends like, oh, your dad just knocked down some conspiracy that a relative was, but I'm like, oh no, we just got to, it's not good. Is there a way that we dig ourselves out of this disinformation warfare? Oof.

I mean, I think this is one of the reasons that we started Crooked Media and went just beyond Pod Save America. I think we need progressive media outlets to sort of counter the disinformation and to be out there on the playing field with like facts and truth and stuff like that because i don't think i think legacy media organizations like some of them are there's some excellent reporters on this that who who like they're on the disinformation beat and they're fantastic but it needs to sort of be much

bigger than individual reporters covering this like you need media organizations are the only ones with the power or the reach to actually... Why does Ben Shapiro have the top 10 stories on Facebook every day? Why is that? Why aren't there progressive media outlets that have some of those stories as well? That's clearly a huge hole in all

of this and it's allowing all of this disinformation to spread. And so, of course, are the platform companies. And what pisses me off is that the Ben Shapiros of the world have rigged the system, and they do what's called coordinated inauthentic activity to boost all of that content and supercharge it. And Facebook just sort of looks the other way. I mean, I think, look, there are great reporters out there who do nonpartisan, like, just-the-facts reporting. But I do think that we've been telling ourselves this fiction about nonpartisan media for a long time.

Sure. And people can sort of sort it out. Like, when you look at the New York Times online, now there is functionally no difference between the opinion section and the news section. So, of course, people are confused about whether or not the New York Times is liberal. Yeah. Right? It's like they endorsed a president, but you're telling me they're not on one team's side. It just seems silly.

So I think in some ways, like, we need to get back to just being okay with partisan media. And Democrats just need to do it better. It needs to be engaging. It needs to be entertaining. We don't, we're not as vicious as them. So we need to be funnier. We need to be lighter. Right.

We need to be, you know, pithy and sharp and like, I don't know, we're trying. Stepping away from my conversation with Jon Favreau and Tommy Vitor to send a shout out to our sponsor, Helix Mattresses. I cannot emphasize enough how comfortable Helix mattresses are. And this is from somebody who has a lot of sleep problems. They're well-documented. I have sleep apnea. I have REM behavior disorder. This is the most comfortable mattress I've ever used. You go to helix.com slash Burbiggs. You fill out a questionnaire about how you sleep, what side you sleep on, all this stuff. If you use offer code Burbiggs, you get $200 off all mattress orders plus

two free pillows for our listeners. Helix.com slash Burbiggs. Now back to the show. On your darkest days, where do you see the country going? And on your most optimistic days, where do you see the country going? There will be a 10-minute intermission. On the darkest days, just more of what we have. I think all of the – and the frame is all of the issues that we're worried-wing media and Facebook and the person who's the president right now, that the country is like not divided in the way that politicians say divided, like we're Republican Democrat, but like divided in a much deeper way that we can't even agree on a common set of facts. And thus we can't

grapple with the challenges that we have right now. So like that leads us down a very dark path. On the brighter days, you look around and see the tremendous outpouring of organization, mobilization, people registering to vote that's happened in the wake of a Trump presidency. And you say, okay, there is a possibility, there is an opportunity for people in this country to basically wake up,

realize that democracy is an everyday struggle, that like you have an obligation as a citizen. You don't just have a set of rights. You have responsibilities as well. And you got to go do something about it. And perhaps if, you know, we wake up and by the way, if Joe Biden wins, that's not the end of the story. It's not like we all go back to our normal lives and everything's fine and Joe Biden's going to handle it. Like this has to be an everyday thing. We have to keep this up. And if we do, then I actually see a much brighter path for the country. Is this your announcement that you're running for president, John? Yeah, right. Not vettable. Would not pass that. Well, no, they don't vet candidates anymore, John. You'll be fine. Yeah, right. You don't have to get security clearance.

That is true. Yeah, that's one way to work in government and not have to get security clearance, I guess. Yeah, yeah. Tommy, what's your darkest and brightest? I mean, my darkest day is that, you know, you can have a party that is able to continue to cement minority rule in this country through voter suppression and basically just rigging the system so that Democrats can win the popular vote by 6%, 7%, 8% and still lose the presidency. Or you could gerrymander states so that there's not enough representation for Democrats in Congress, right? And you could just sort of lock in this minority rule.

That's the dark day. The brighter day is remembering that U.S. politics is frustratingly zero-sum and can feel binary. But the reality is that Hillary Clinton lost Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin by about 80,000 votes. Yeah, yeah. And so we can swing things one way or the other

and make a huge difference. And so I do think that if we can win the presidency, win back the Senate, we should pass a bunch of laws that make it easier for people in this country to vote. We should enfranchise people in Puerto Rico, Washington, D.C. We should fix the U.S. Senate. We should unfuck the Supreme Court. And then finally, small D democracy can actually get its, you know, feedback under it. But like, that's been the problem these days is these are really anti-democratic pushes by the Republican Party. I think that's the clickbait right there is Tommy Vitor says we need to unfuck the Supreme Court. With small ds. It's been fucked pretty hard. It's been fucked really hard.

It's been fucked pretty hard. It's been fucked pretty hard. That's a lot. That's a big sentence right there. I'm going to fuck the court with my small d democracy. I think, and I have a joke about this, but I think that the key in this election possibly is, because healthcare is the great equalizer. But I'm hoping that it is,

because this is what I wrote as a joke, you sort of know if you don't have it. If a stranger has a finger up your ass and your finger hooked up to an oxygenation ringlet and you didn't fill out a form, you don't have health care. You're totally right, Mike. I mean, look, Democrats won the House in 2018 by running on the Affordable Care Act and saying that Donald Trump wants to strip away health care for people with pre-existing conditions. He wants to take millions of people off the rolls who got healthcare through expanded access to Medicaid.

So yeah, I mean, I do think if you look at what Democrats are putting money behind in terms of paid advertising, it's exactly this set of issues because it really matters. Yeah. I was going to say, I think for Biden too, as you said, it's not just he's not Trump and he's not going to tear up the Affordable Care Act. He hasn't gotten out there as much that his plan would expand health care. There's potentially 25 million more. Donald Trump, if he gets his way and destroys the Affordable Care Act, 20 million people will lose their health insurance. Joe Biden wins and passes his health care plan. will lose their health insurance.

Joe Biden wins and passes his health care plan. 25 million more people will be covered than they are right now for all the different subsidies, tax credits, public option plans, everything else that he's doing. So I wrote this joke, and I actually think for the listeners, this might be something that we could make a graphic with because I think it's a visual one,

which is it's hard to explain to Trump supporters what this administration is doing wrong because it's everything. It's like if you dropped a vase on cement and someone was like, what's wrong with the vase? And you have to be like, let's start with a different question. What's right with the vase? See those shards? Usually they merge with other shards and together they hold water.

That's the whole joke. The vase, that joke is called the vase analogy. I like that one. That's very funny. Very funny. And then the other one is Ronnie Chang and I from The Daily Show

were on here on the podcast kicking around a joke about how it's weird. And I really feel it. I think about this every day. It's weird that the sitting president is a conspiracy theorist because the conspiracy theories are supposed to be about him. That's the idea.

Right. He just boosts conspiracy theories about people who aren't in charge, which is a weird angle. Like, you know, the real problem, people with no power. It's like if you were LeBron James and you're like, you know, the real problem with my team, the players who didn't make the team.

But it's not reassuring when the president of the united states says things like who's really controlling the government i'm like i thought you were but but is there a reddit thread i could visit for more information and then uh yeah and then the last joke i have and then we'll go to working it out for a cause and wrap it up. But the last joke I have is, and this is a completely true sentiment I have, which is I didn't used to care as much. But now I have a daughter and she's five and she's going to grow up. And if she does something wrong and I might have to tell her she can't do it or discipline her. And I'm just not going to have a leg to stand on. I'll be like, go to your room. And she'll be like, you elected a broke, racist

game show host who paid off a porn star and then separated kids from their parents and dismantled the EPA so my friends and I don't breathe clean air or drink clean water. Why don't you go to your room? And I'm going to go because she's not wrong. So we end on a segment called Working It Out for a Cause, where I donate

to an organization that you guys think is doing a particularly great job and could use our support right now. And we'll link in the show notes and talk about it right now. Well, I mean, look, there's a couple options on votesaveamerica.com. We have a couple funds. They're less causes than they are ways to either donate money to Democrats running for the U.S. Senate. So if you go to votesaveamerica.com slash getmitch,

you can donate to 14 candidates who are running in states all over the country and can help us expand the map and maybe win back the Senate and take the power back from Mitch McConnell. Because if he is still running the Senate and Joe Biden is president, he will prevent us from getting anything done.

And we just cannot let that happen. He's a cancer on the body politic. We got to get him out of there. That's it. That's the fund. All it. That's the fund. All right. That's the cause. We're going to send folks there.

And I really appreciate you guys. I love your podcasts. I love what you're doing. I appreciate it as a citizen of America. And also as a fan of you individually as voices. I really appreciate it. and thanks for coming on. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having us and thanks for all of your specials and your advice, warnings about being a parent.

That was really, really helpful. Really helpful. And making stuff that just generally makes me feel less anxious on Sunday nights, I highly recommend all Birbiglia content on Netflix if you need to just feel a little better about the world for an hour. 100%. Working it out, cause it's not

done. Working it out, cause there's no... Wow, that was another episode of Working It Out completely different from the other episodes. If you like the show, go back and listen to all the other episodes. We have come so far.

We're approaching our 20th episode. We had that great episode with Hasan Minhaj, Hannah Gadsby, John Mulaney, Ira Glass. If you haven't, Maria Bamford, Tig Notaro. If you haven't caught up, catch up. These are so fun. The Pete Holmes one from last week. Our producers are myself, along with Peter Salamone and Joseph Birbiglia,

consulting producer Seth Barish, sound mix by Kate Balinski, assistant editor Mabel Lewis. Thanks to my consigliere Mike Berkowitz as well as Marissa Hurwitz. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff for his brilliant music. As always, a very special thanks to my wife J-Hope Stein, the poet.

Our book, The New One, is at your local bookstore, Curbside. As always, a special thanks to my daughter Una who created a radio fort of pillows. Once again, go to VoteSaveAmerica.com. I did it since recording this episode, and I found it to be so easy to use, so informative. I contributed.

I encourage you to contribute if you possibly can. It tells you all about which races are consequential and why and the issues that are at stake. It's really cool. VoteSaveAmerica.com. Thanks most of all to you who have listened. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies to vote, you know, because you can vote now. And in the meantime, we will be working it out.

See you next time.